Advantedges/Disadvantedges of a Melee Pet Class

[Gemini]

What do yall think the advantedges and disadvantedges of being a melee pet class will be?

Will they be harder to kite with snares since you have to snare two creatues? Will we get to delay spell casts more because of attacks? Will AoE attacks be doubly effective against us?

All speculation and all words of wisdom based off prior experience are welcome.

[Deathgrind]

Advantages I think will be extremely heavy damage output compared to range pet classes, as they have to be close to do their damage. Disadvantages will probably be survivability against heavy damage casters.

[Festo]

getting to the target is going to be the hard part me thinks

"Oh look an elf with an axe and a lion im just gunna wait here till he gets close enough to murder me."

yea thats not going to happen

advantage will be if you manage to hit them they are going to die

[Faltina]

I'm imagining a White Lion will be similar to a pre-archery buff DAoC Melee Hunter w/high Physical Defense... with maybe a timered ranged taunt to do solo pulling for Pve being their only "ranged" attack ala DAoC Maulers.


If that's the case and they lack any true "range" interrupt or attack then chances are any class capable of kiting will be a nightmare...

And since there ARE roots, unless the Pet has some kind of root or snare immunity... OR an instant charge to cover distances quickly, (which is probably how they're going to do the spec lines: better pet buffs OR better melee abilities, you gotta choose which line to go)... the pet might not be as hard to deal with as some might think.

[Orthon]

getting to the target is going to be the hard part me thinks

"Oh look an elf with an axe and a lion im just gunna wait here till he gets close enough to murder me."

yea thats not going to happen

advantage will be if you manage to hit them they are going to die


Well, i don't know, but wouldn't it make sense to have the lion charge the target, then slow it down in wait for the elf in that case?

That is, if it actually can charge and slow down targets.


I think the good thing is that it's going to be interesting career to play, mostly because of the pet. I think there's many ways for Mythic to make this class great.

The disadvantedges is obviously the general issue with pet classes, like aggro, survivability without the pet, difficulty to play as the pet and the elf at the same time . You know, the whole thing.

[Crunchie]

My question would be : Do the Lions have collision detection with the enemy ?

If so, then it's fairly good news for the ranged classes and HE healer, because obviously the more bodies in the way of you the better. =)

[RX_Odhinn]

getting to the target is going to be the hard part me thinks

"Oh look an elf with an axe and a lion im just gunna wait here till he gets close enough to murder me."

yea thats not going to happen

advantage will be if you manage to hit them they are going to die

OR...you could look at it like this.

"Oh look a witch with her elixers, guess I'll send in ol Spike here for a distraction and then ambush."

...Solo encounter PvP battles almost always are determined by who gets the jump.

I'm just hoping that White Lions get some kind of a buff when within a certain range with their pet, and vice-versa. That way they are extremely powerful when near each other but somewhat weak when split.

Fighting the White Lion: Best odds for success come from splitting the warrior from his faithful companion. Focus on killing off his pet as quickly as possible or face a series of swift and deadly blows.

...or something like that

[Trozen]

What I see happening with this class is the pet being used for some dps, but almost all the supporting abilties will be from the pet. What I mean by this is that any CC, debuffs, or buffs will be attacks by the lion.

This can be seen as an advantage in that the lion can attack a target and prime it for when the white lion gets there with an axe, it might even let the white lion reach the victim easier.

This can also be a disadvantage in that it makes the white lion very dependent on the the pet for survivability and max dps, but that is the nature of any pet class. It also limits the use having the pet engage an enemy that the white lion is not, and thus splitting the class's dps.

[Shandris]

since its 2 characters for 1 player, I'd guess its a pretty big target on the field, and since it isnt a tank, could very well prove badly if people first target things that they see as the biggest....

I do think that it will have gigantic damage when both the lion and the elf are up at the same time fully buffed....

one disadvantage could be if they don't have rezzes that the white lion carries that can only be used to rez the lion. obviously this depends a lot on which one of the 2 can survive and gets targeted more, as people could soon learn which one to target to reduce the threat of the white lion the most or at all....

most of the advantages/disadvantages can just be extrapolated from other pet classes such as hunters in WOW and rangers in guild wars. through both, it was best to kill the character first, as it bocked his use of abilities for the pet and sometimes for the pet to attack at all....I guess we'll just have to see....might even get a good idea about it when they officially announce it soon (next month im guessing...)

[Inkdot]

I think a single White Lion (elf) will be easier to kill then other melee dps, and I think a single Lion (pet) will be easier to kill. But together they will most probably have more hp (combined hp)then say an Orc Choppa.

I also think if the player is skilled they will have the potential of doing more dmg then most other melee dps because of synergy effect between elf and lion.

I suspect that the White Lion will be the one doing most dmg and it will be of the same magnitude as a swordmaster or perhaps slightly more. The pet could be used for all the little special status effect attacks, knockdown, disrupt, intercept etc as well as some added dmg (to make total dps greater then that of a swordmaster). I can imagine that the strong elf (strength 4 in TT game) with the razor sharp 2h Axe will be the one dismembering foes and cutting them up badly while the big lion is better at ripping up bleed effects, knocking opponents down, chocking opponents (by going for the throat like RL cat predators), doing great leaps etc rather then clawing its way through plate armor and dealing raw dmg.

All of this is based on the assumption that if the sum of a system is fixed, then a system with two independent parts will be more vulnerable (because at half life they will function with half efficiency while a single part system will still be at maximum capacity). Therefore i suspect that the sum of Elf+lion is slightly greater then other classes. But this is however simplified. The truth is more complicated and I'm guessing White Lions will be really though annoying opponents for my Witch or whatever I decide to play...

[Stick&Move]

Agreed. Assuming, of course, that the White Lions become a melee DPS/ pet class individually the White Lion would have to be substantially weaker than the other Melee DPS classes if only for game balance, with the balance of power siphoned into the pet.

I'm of the opinion that the White Lion should not have a lion pet. Just a stout grim elf with a big axe.

[Talc]

I still think the white lion would make a better tank class. I loved my warrior/ranger in guild wars. My pet helped tank and then helped peel when someone went after the squishies.

[Konrad Siegesruf]

I still think the white lion would make a better tank class. I loved my warrior/ranger in guild wars. My pet helped tank and then helped peel when someone went after the squishies.

The White Lions had Light Armor in the 6th Edition of Warhammer TT, while Sword Masters had Heavy Armor. The Sword Master was also chosen as a tank because of their 'Deflect Arrows' skill in the 5th Edition. The Sword Master was chosen as tank before the High Elf 7th Edition Army came out :p.

[aegir]

maybe it would be cool if either one of the combo dies, the other goes enraged.. so if the pussycat dies, you go enraged (they could call it REVENGE of the lion or something), increasing armor, health and damage output by 10%. same for the pet, but it would have to die after a couple of seconds ofcourse, since its not a player character.. anyway this prevents enemies from quickly killing the pet, cause it will make the elf go berserk, but they could also take their chances, kill the pet and get a chopping elf in their face. at least the elf won't be so squishy without his pet then.

[BallsOfSteel]

I'm a little worried about balance when it comes to the White Lions being a pet class. Much like Stick&Move, I believe the White Lions should stay a big elf with an even bigger axe, with a badass lion cloak flowing from his shoulders. Afterall, the White Lion has 4 strength in the TT, versus the Swordmaster's 3 str.

If they are indeed a pet class (which they probably will be, just so Order and Destruction both have a pet class and a melee-healer class), then my concern lies in the dps they will be able to put out. I personally think that both the White Lion and his pet should have 50% of all stats. Perhaps they deal 5% more damage than the other melee dps classes, but that comes with the downside of any and all non-percentage-based debuffs are double effective on them.

Just to show you what I mean, if, say, a Chosen has a debuff that reduces all nearby foes' strength by 10, then both the White Lion and the pet would get -10 str, and so they would lose a combined -20. But if the Chosen has a debuff that reduces all nearby foes' strength by 10%, then the White Lion and his pet wouldn't suffer any greater loss of dps than any other melee dps class.

However, there are a lot of different things that could happen with the class and the advantages and disadvantages are probably so complex that we'd only be able to fully evaluate them in the beta. As it stands now, it looks to be an interesting career. I'm just worried that Mythic will over-compensate for the weakness of having to rely on a pet for damage. I really don't want to see a repeat of the WoW Hunter's annoyance.

[Evander]

I think the pet will present a part of the DPS percentage the class has.
In other words, no pet means a hard job getting around because a part of your combat abilities are only usable via the combat pet.
So if the pet dies first, you are soon to follow. If the creature itself has a WoW-like mood experience the WL would be the most special class in the game. Where it depends on this creature that keeps him alive and he has to keep alive in return, because if it dies to often and is revived his mood is set to low and might produce less damage or ignore some orders given. And the only way to keep the creature happy is to provide it with food, or the corpse of your enemy.

That way making two creatures, your WL and his pet, one single unit. Relying on one-another to provide maximum survivability. Like the Ice Climbers in Super Smash.

So it's like you've two rows of combat abilities, one for your Character and the other for your pet. And your pet is your debuffer/tank kind of creature. The creature might want to attract more "threat" than your character by giving it some real minor combat options. Like a "taunt" where the damage output on the WL is partly reduced having the enemy player to choose to fight the lion of just keep on fighting with lesser damage.
Maybe it might even snare enemies by biting into their leg so if your WL is nearly dead he can flee at the cost of his pet. ( this is pure game mechanic, a true WL would not do this)

I'm really looking forward to this class and it is currently the only one that is making me doubt my main choice. I'm hoping they make it special, not another cookycutter "petclass"

[Dan da Man]

Im wondering if the lion wont just stick right by the side of the elf and just add a little bit of buffs and damage but not very much. Then if the lion dies first it wouldnt hurt the elf so much but he would be at a disadvantage. This might make it easier for players to attack the elf first which might balance out the class a bit easier.

[ardentmoth]

I'm pretty sure that this would be an extremely boring character to play as for any length of time IF you had no choice about whether or not you had a pet Lion.

Even in other, less-liked MMOs, the classes with the capability of having pets also have the option of focusing solely on martial prowess.

For a parallel, take the Shadow Warrior. SW can spec sword, bow, or both. I would say that most likely, the White Lion will be able to spec combat, or pet, or both, allowing for a fairly nice ability to tweak the character build that you want to play.

[Linkusmax]

Take a Guild Wars R/W Thumper, switch the hammer with an axe and you have a well balanced front loaded dps machine. Pretty much what the White Lions will be

[nateness]

it will prolly be similar to a beastlord from eq1. they were a melee pet class.

[Ayetalam]

Im wondering if the lion wont just stick right by the side of the elf and just add a little bit of buffs and damage but not very much. Then if the lion dies first it wouldnt hurt the elf so much but he would be at a disadvantage. This might make it easier for players to attack the elf first which might balance out the class a bit easier.

Maybe if its not too lore breaking, have it when the Lion dies. It infuses itself with the White Lion, and gives him a buff in DPS and armor, but only stays for 5 min. Its dispelled if the time runs out, or the White Lion is revived.

This is my first post in the HE forums, because this is the only class I want to play on the order side and plan to make a alt of on another server.

[Jonas]

Advantages: 2x cooldowns (global or otherwise) - eg: stuns/snares cast by the pet, damage attacks cast by the character.

Disadvantages: Probably, several class abilities (I'd imagine enemy control functions) easily removable via killing the pet. Otherwise, if a linked hp pool, vulnerability to aoes.

[Scerce]

I hope upon hope that the pet's contribution is not simply to act as a bait lion with a little extra DPS (I won't point fingers at past offenders).

Now, while I don't expect the pet to be as fully functional as the character itself, I do hope the pet comes with a moderately robust list of situational and debuff abilities. In this way, the advantage of the pet class would be to inflict damage upon the primary target (with a big 2-handed axe) while commanding your little (huge?) buddy to spread chaos with a few speed-reducing bites, and a pounce to interrupt casting or whatnot, on a secondary target in the back ranks of the enemies' lines.

If all goes well, it equates to a melee dps class with a "ranged" component that inflicts debuffs and lesser damage.

[Maelstromwen]

i just had a thought, wouldnt it be funny, if when they said white lion it wasnt the white lion unit, just the lion itself, look at the picture of the lion itself, its got a braided beard ... it looks almost dwarflike! If this was to happen i know that there would be untold complaints, but then again it would solve the melee pet class worries, because 1 its a melee class and 2 its a pet ...