Hope they make the slayers thus:

[Ronulf]

One thing i really like about the hammerer is how the class is described.

"The Dwarf Hammerer takes his name from the primary tool of his trade, His mighty warhammers. The primary -- and in fact only -- role of this highly focused career is to simply bash things. Enemies that get in his way will soon discover that he performs this role very well.
Lacking the subtlety and all-roundedness of other classes, the Hammerer makes up for it with brute force. His skills, his tactics and his playstyle all focus around delivering as much damage as possible to single foes as he can, while relying on his above-average armor to keep him alive while they are still kicking. His attacks also cause various state effects, reducing the effectiveness of his foe and further tipping the scales of war in his favor." -HammerWiki


Now take this description, change the name to SLAYER, add alot of tattoos, and a mohawk and dye the beard and hair orange.
Can you possibly get a cooler mdps than that?
No gimmic, no pet, no stealth, no positional combat... Just bash things good and solid.
And look damn cool while doing it!

Edit. for content.

[Molot]

Hard to imagine slayer with above-average armor. I always thought slayer would have lower then average armor just like a WE or a WH.

To be honest I really don't want to playdwarf MDPS who has a low armor, for me mid. armor mid. damage career sounds more appealing.

[Varking]

Hard to imagine slayer with above-average armor. I always thought slayer would have lower then average armor just like a WE or a WH.

To be honest I really don't want to playdwarf MDPS who has a low armor, for me mid. armor mid. damage career sounds more appealing.
If they armor him up like the Marauder it will be fine.

[the Doctor]

If they armor him up like the Marauder it will be fine.
so... we get a short marauder?

Next idea, plz.

[Varking]

so... we get a short marauder?

Next idea, plz.
He was posting a concern and I posted a possibility to answer it. Did I say it was the only option? Did I say it was the best option? Did I say it was what I personally wanted? No, not at all. I was just trying to be helpful. Does a Slayer have a mutating arm? Will the Slayer have a tentacle "get over here" pull? Does the Marauder have crazy spiked hair? Is the Marauder tatted up all over? Yes, I guess the Slayer will look exactly like a short Marauder. Just like the Ironbreaker is just a short Black Orc.... oh wait.

Or you just don't want Slayers at all;
Well I just hope it's not the Slayer...

The bolded stuff, what would have ever given off that impression?
You guys seem to think I hate slayers, that I hate dwarves. It also sounds like you guys think I'm personally attacking you for expressing my opinion that I don't think Slayers can be implemented correctly lol..... I agree with Pacifist with that it will be kinda tough to implement, yet there is a possibility.

Yes, they are tough and don't fall easily, but that's lore. Archmages are supposed to control the 8 Winds of Magic, and be the most powerful magic wielders yet they drop like flies and have mediocre damage in game. See how that works?

Just because you want your Slayer on that pedestal doesn't mean it's gonna happen.
Your "edit" with all the middle fingers after I pointed out the Hammerer wasn't making it back;
"edit"

ttttttt

Admitting Hammerer was going to be your main or alt had it made it in.
Haha that would be pretty sweet :P. Dwarven beer can perform miracles.

I agree with you about the Hammerer. It would probably be my main, or 2nd alt.

The Hammerer's helms usually show wing like things protruding from the time, and they look pretty cool. A Choppa is just gonna like like a Black Orc without a shield.
If you replace Choppa with Hammerer, and then insert Ironbreaker where Black Orc is, the same can be said.
You seem to be Negative Nancy just for the sake of arguing, or still sore about the Hammerer not making it.

[KatzenKratzen]

Hard to imagine slayer with above-average armor. I always thought slayer would have lower then average armor just like a WE or a WH.

To be honest I really don't want to playdwarf MDPS who has a low armor, for me mid. armor mid. damage career sounds more appealing.
it's a computer game, d'uh. You can set any values you want, you can make tatoos a more armored item than a platemail. So its not hard to imagine at all. How to justify it? Well Slayers have 4 Toughness and thats a solid value.

[Ronulf]

Hard to imagine slayer with above-average armor. I always thought slayer would have lower then average armor just like a WE or a WH.

To be honest I really don't want to playdwarf MDPS who has a low armor, for me mid. armor mid. damage career sounds more appealing.

Well seeing as Witch Elfs get the same amount of armor as a Witch Hunter, and the shoulder armor Marauders wear, qualify as medium armor, i dont really see a problem with keping Slayers on par with Choppas.

[Gunbeard]

Besides there has already been lore breaks so maybe one more little one where the slayers dawn a bit of armor to protect there race better is acceptable. Nothing big just like pauldrons and half armor kinda stuff.

[Honos]

Did we seriously need another thread talking about the slayers? I mean seriously...

Some of us wanted to player the hammerers you know, have some consideration for the grieving.

[Chubbles]

In regards to potential slayer armor why not give the class light armor?

Then instead give the armor substantial bonuses to toughness and wounds? In addition to the normal stat distributions.

This would be a different way to approach the survival of the class while not butchering lore any more than necessary.

[Clangeddin]

In regards to potential slayer armor why not give the class light armor?

Then instead give the armor substantial bonuses to toughness and wounds? In addition to the normal stat distributions.

This would be a different way to approach the survival of the class while not butchering lore any more than necessary.

You don't balance armor with toughness and wounds. If it could be done, why would armor be in the game in the first place? It's a different mechanic. Do you think that Ancestral Inheritance is EQUAL to I'm Da Biggest? No, it's not.
Armor only affects physical attacks, toughness and wounds affect all damage, for instance.
Armor has a bigger impact on high damage spikes, whereas toughness is better for mitigating many hits.
Armor has a 75% damage reduction cap, which has been reached by many, whereas we don't know what the cap on Toughness is.
Many abilities in this game reduce armor by something like 75%, which is a lot, whereas there aren't many moves that reduce toughness by 75%. Actually I don't think there's a move that reduces toughness for more than 120?
You can already hear the complaints of balance if the Slayer was mirrored by a class like the Choppa, which wears medium armor, from both sides.
For sure, the survavibility would NOT be the same, no matter how much try to tweak it, and that would also call on a DPS difference as well (the more survivable between the two, should have less dps according to a rule of balance, no?) and that might make both careers unhappy.
If a career has to be a mirror, than they have to share many similarities, and one of this is the "weight" of its armor, just like all other mirrors. (Mirrors, once again, are defined by balance in the class role, not by the mechanic, like many want to try to argue about, when it's obvious that the whole mirror concept is something based on the purpose of balance, and not on the purpose of gameplay style)

[soulblazer87]

Slayers will not wear heavy armor. Sure there have been many changes in the fluff as some would say but for example WE still wear bikinis. If at all slayers wear no armor. They are just stone hard to kill so light armor or even robe would be enough for them. They should be like WE and WH when compared to Choppas. Less armor than choppa but more dps or other abilities. And btw it might be a good idea to stop posting wishes and dreams here. Devs don't check it out much and even if they do I don't think they much attention to it anyway... Sad though it may be.

[Haggis]

We're not posting for the devs we post for ourselves and each other. We don't expect our ideas to suddenly go in game, but it's fun to share the ideas and make predections.

I'll be surprised if slayer doesn't medium armor. as I understand it in the tabletop he can take just as much damage as hammerer and as long as his vitals are exposed he can stack as much armor as he wants. Plus I doubt the dwarfs will be the race that breaks the 1 heavy, 1 med, and 2 light armors combo the others follow.

Oh and light armor and robe are the same thing. It's just difference in design.

[Balgin]

Hard to imagine slayer with above-average armor. I always thought slayer would have lower then average armor just like a WE or a WH.

To be honest I really don't want to playdwarf MDPS who has a low armor, for me mid. armor mid. damage career sounds more appealing.

Well Gotrek does wear a studded leather jerkin over a sleeved mail shirt in a few of the earlier stories but then it somehow magicaly disappears in a giant continuity whirlpool to match some new artwork.

[The Vig]

My swami prediction is that the Slayer and the Choppa will have medium armor.

[Lyability]

One thing i really like about the hammerer is how the class is described.

"The Dwarf Hammerer takes his name from the primary tool of his trade, His mighty warhammers. The primary -- and in fact only -- role of this highly focused career is to simply bash things. Enemies that get in his way will soon discover that he performs this role very well.
Lacking the subtlety and all-roundedness of other classes, the Hammerer makes up for it with brute force. His skills, his tactics and his playstyle all focus around delivering as much damage as possible to single foes as he can, while relying on his above-average armor to keep him alive while they are still kicking. His attacks also cause various state effects, reducing the effectiveness of his foe and further tipping the scales of war in his favor." -HammerWiki


Now take this description, change the name to SLAYER, add alot of tattoos, and a mohawk and dye the beard and hair orange.
Can you possibly get a cooler mdps than that?
No gimmic, no pet, no stealth, no positional combat... Just bash things good and solid.
And look damn cool while doing it!

Edit. for content.

I gotta admit, score one for the hammerer there.

I can't figure out why you all want slayers, we already have a melee squishie: Witch Hunter. In case you haven't noticed, Order is kinda sorta *slightly* ever so lacking on a decently armored (non-pet) mdps class.

Just thought I'd toss that out there. Its about as obvious as water being wet..... sky being blue.... but hey! Whatever.

[Haggis]

As people have said many times, including this thread, the slayer could easly have medium armor.

[Rvard]

I gotta admit, score one for the hammerer there.

I can't figure out why you all want slayers, we already have a melee squishie: Witch Hunter. In case you haven't noticed, Order is kinda sorta *slightly* ever so lacking on a decently armored (non-pet) mdps class.

Just thought I'd toss that out there. Its about as obvious as water being wet..... sky being blue.... but hey! Whatever.
Ehm, Squishy? The Slayer will be medium armor due to balance. Mirrored to Choppa that is medium, and also that each racial pairing has 1 Heavy, 1 Medium and 2 Light armored careers. And there are perfectly plausible reasons for them to be medium armor. Slayers are not naked, just bare-chested (Like the, ohhh.. Marauder!) and they are tattooed in the runic wards of grimnir (which in the fluff are said to be able to even deflect arrows..), so it's perfectly acceptable for their armor pieces to be of medium armor value.
The "hurf durf Slayers can't be medium armor" -argument has no base and has been used to death.

In another subject, Slayers will be incredibly tough. They can slot Ancestral Inheritance, then add in an Oathfriended Ironbreaker giving them Guarded Attack..

[Gerrok]

Honestly Slayer as a medium armor user or slayer as a light armor, high toughness, high wounds person will suit me.

Either way just release the dwarf MDPS already.

[Varking]

I gotta admit, score one for the hammerer there.

I can't figure out why you all want slayers, we already have a melee squishie: Witch Hunter. In case you haven't noticed, Order is kinda sorta *slightly* ever so lacking on a decently armored (non-pet) mdps class.

Just thought I'd toss that out there. Its about as obvious as water being wet..... sky being blue.... but hey! Whatever.
The problem is, it was a false description of the career. They didn't make up for anything in Beta with brute force and they ended up deciding they needed a knock down mechanic. If you can not figure out why we all want Slayers maybe you should read some of the posts thrown around here. Many people have given many reasons on why we would want to play a Slayer. Ordre is also kinda sorta * slightly * lacking on visual appeal and popularity. Slayer is by far, much more popular than the Hammerer as well which helps close the population imbalance much better than the Hammerer. I could go into a wide variety of reasons that most prefer Slayers but if you haven't taken the time to read the forums here to see why, I am not going to spoon-feed it to you.

[Kaikai]

meh it sounds bland to me, if i wanted to play a bland class i'd play WoW, i play warhammer for variety.

[Veresa]

I think the problem people have with this game and talking about armor is the way people have a tendency to connect armor value/rating with a certain visual. For example if you were to say heavy armor every one would think of plate armor. If you were to say Slayers will be getting heavy armor (which they will not be just trying to make a point) then people will automatically think of a Slayer in plate armor, basically a IB with red/orange hair and a Mohawk. What people forget is that Mythic has some what disassociated the connection between armor value/weight with looks. So they could give armor to the Slayers that visually shows them wearing almost nothing, like a drunken male midget orange/red mohawked WE, however if they deem the armor heavy armor then they would get the armor rating of a tank.

I dont really understand what is so freaking hard to understand about this concept but for some reason a lot of people dont get it. I remember before this game came out some people saw some screenshots of high level WPs with the heavy armor on top and the robes and figured they were getting heavy tank like armor >< Or the fact that a SW with mail peices and some solid metal peices has less armor rating than a Marauder wearing much much less.

So yes they will most likely give Slayers medium armor, and no it doesnt mean they will be all covered up. Armor rating is just some arbitray classifications that Mythic can change on a whim with out changing the look of said armor.

[Doc Lumbago]

so... we get a short marauder?

Next idea, plz.

NO

you get a short tattoed flat-breasted bearded punky WITCH ELF


so stop crying

[Doc Lumbago]

uuuh an ideal idea (whoastopamomenthaveyounoticedthatperfectalliterat iongottasavethatformyrapstarcareer) just came to my mind. the Slayer Mechanic could be familiar to that of Sorc/Bright Wizard.

when entering a battle a Slayer is driving to ends his opponents life at all cost without regard for himself.
to illustrate this Slayers could have some sort of Rage instead of combustion bar that fills with fighting. Rage filled up your strikes get ultimately powerful, you get armour ignore, finishing moves whatever...

Unlike Combustion a full Rage Bar doesn´t result in a backlash but decreases your defensive stats allowing your opponents to strike you down easily, making you some sort of glass...... chainsaw.

you can use your Rage for special Crits and Finishing Moves which will use up some Rage but to get to the real cool heavy hitters you have to be fueled up high so it takes tactic finesse to get to these leves before you get slain by your opponents.


this Mech would make Slayer+Warrior Priest+a good defense Tank an ideal battle frontline

[Rauko]

NO

you get a short tattoed flat-breasted bearded punky WITCH ELF


so stop crying

lol

Enough said to be honest Slayers would be more awesome then hammerers ever would have been. Next to that Order needs an iconic class where hammerer is dull.

[Cirwenska]

I look forward to slayers joining the fight, but as a Rune Priest I will NEVER heal one under any circumstance.. The dwarf already lost his honour due to some great shame in his past, an I will not add further insult by forcind a Slayer to break the last VOW he has and earning is grudge..

Besides ya can't heal the dead and a Slayer is exactly that, his death song has been sung, his armour and horde devided to his kin the day he took the Slayer Oath, it will just be sad to see so many of our fallen all apearing so sudenly as if some great wrong has hit the Dwarven people...

[Rauko]

Sorry but the fight is for survival of the entire dwarven race. And those filty orks still controll more of our terittories then they should so yes a great wrong has been done. The slayers will once again fight next to their brethren.

[Varking]

I look forward to slayers joining the fight, but as a Rune Priest I will NEVER heal one under any circumstance.. The dwarf already lost his honour due to some great shame in his past, an I will not add further insult by forcind a Slayer to break the last VOW he has and earning is grudge..

Besides ya can't heal the dead and a Slayer is exactly that, his death song has been sung, his armour and horde devided to his kin the day he took the Slayer Oath, it will just be sad to see so many of our fallen all apearing so sudenly as if some great wrong has hit the Dwarven people...
Slayers want to die to the biggest most baddest enemy, healing would only hel[ ensure that this happens. Besides, you can't NOT heal them because of lore, when the class you are playing is completely made up...

[Cirwenska]

Slayers want to die to the biggest most baddest enemy, healing would only hel[ ensure that this happens. Besides, you can't NOT heal them because of lore, when the class you are playing is completely made up...


Rune Priest made up? (they are ment to be Runesmiths) what warhamer TT did you play.. odd in mIne I had A huge Dwarf army, A bloody great Anvil and a Rune Priest hiting it.. the only made up part is the daft healing and wearing cloth as a dwarf (if your not in at least chain your naked)

ps: i'm on a role play server so I can do exactly the above,I won't heal Slayers full stop... much as I don't single target heal any elf on my grudge list, they only get hit by my AE heal...

[Gobbie]

Rune Priest made up? what warhammer TT did you play.. odd in mIne I had A huge Dwarf army, A bloody great Anvil and a Rune Priest hiting it.. the only made up part is the daft healing and wearing cloth as a dwarf (if your not in at least chain your naked)

I won't heal Slayers full stop...

Don't you mean Rune-smith?

[Cirwenska]

Don't you mean Rune-smith?

Aye was editing as you posted :P but a Rune Priest is simply a Runesmith but mythic twisted the name to add abit of healing to the race...

Far as I see it if a Slayer is about to die, then obviously that creature/player was all he could handle and it's not my charicters job to deprive him of the death he saught..

[Rvard]

Aye was editing as you posted :P but a Rune Priest is simply a Runesmith but mythic twisted the name to add abit of healing to the race...

Far as I see it if a Slayer is about to die, then obviously that creature/player was all he could handle and it's not my charicters job to deprive him of the death he saught..
Not really. Runepriests represent the Priests in Dwarfen society. Mythic just gave them a more generalized name rather than appointing them to some single Priesthood. But as such, they are a bit made up.

As for healing Slayers, in the Beastslayer novel Gotrek is struck in the head and he falls into a coma. He is then carried to a Priestess of Shallya who heals him. Sure sounds a lot like reviving a fallen comrade in the game, doesn't it?.. And in the series as whole him and other Slayers receive deadly wounds many a time, but always patch themselves up.

[kingamongpeasants]

Slayers and choppas will be more than likely be very lightly armored berserkers.

They will probably have charge or something similiar and I can see them with a mechanic similiar to either combustion (more chance to crit hit with less defense) or hate in which with more hate they have higher crit chance.

e.i. melee equal to pre resist patch bw/sorcs

[Hadokenz]

I believe Slayers and Choppas are going to be the most durable of the MPDS on either side.(considering Choppas WERE exactly that last I heard of them when I was in beta)

Even though the Slayer is lightly armored(visually), they will likely be durable in one way or another.(probably through a mechanic.)

[Phred]

Aye was editing as you posted :P but a Rune Priest is simply a Runesmith but mythic twisted the name to add abit of healing to the race...

Far as I see it if a Slayer is about to die, then obviously that creature/player was all he could handle and it's not my charicters job to deprive him of the death he saught..

The slayer is a conundrum in itself. He wants to die, but for a dwarf it is simply impossible not to fight to win. He will use any tactic available to him to achieve victory in his battle. I can't see him bearing a grudge to a priest who hands him a healing rune. It is his choice to use the rune or not, and how could he not use it knowing that he would win by doing so?

[Kaiza77]

Ehm, Squishy? The Slayer will be medium armor due to balance. Mirrored to Choppa that is medium, and also that each racial pairing has 1 Heavy, 1 Medium and 2 Light armored careers. And there are perfectly plausible reasons for them to be medium armor. Slayers are not naked, just bare-chested (Like the, ohhh.. Marauder!) and they are tattooed in the runic wards of grimnir (which in the fluff are said to be able to even deflect arrows..), so it's perfectly acceptable for their armor pieces to be of medium armor value.
The "hurf durf Slayers can't be medium armor" -argument has no base and has been used to death.

In another subject, Slayers will be incredibly tough. They can slot Ancestral Inheritance, then add in an Oathfriended Ironbreaker giving them Guarded Attack..


^This

Thats what Im betting on your going to see when Slayers are released. The pants, boots, and probably gloves will be there but chest and shoulders will look more along the lines of Rune Etched Mark of Calamity Or something to that effect with proper stats given.

As far as Choppas being Med Armor in Beta so they will both be the same now, I wouldnt go so far as that. Ive been playing since the start of guild beta and am still seeing changes and major design tweaks on various classes that I was unaware of having been changed and had no mention of in any patch notes. Just cause some of you saw something in beta doesnt mean it means anything especially after the classes were talking about here have been taken back to the drawing board for as long as they have since their original conception.

Hammerer was meant to be a Med armor MDPS class, thats pretty obvious. Will they keep the Choppa and Slayer in that same mold that they had originally planned for? That remains to be seen.

[Oakarrow]

Slayers have runes tattooed on their skin. These runes could provide protection both armor and resist. They should have an innate ability to parry, dodge and disrupt better than other classes.

Ideally, they should have no ability to flee and take extra damage if they disengage from a fight. It would be great fun to see them "stuck" in combat until the enemy leaves unable to switch targets or move until the enemy they first attacked is either dead or they are dead.

[Fop]

You just have to look at EQ1 monks to see how it could work - ok the "lore" justification would be slightly different, but really it would be the same thing.

[Wyrmwud]

Far as I see it if a Slayer is about to die, then obviously that creature/player was all he could handle and it's not my charicters job to deprive him of the death he saught..

Except for there not being any death in Warhammer Online.

No wonder Slayers are so angry!

[Stuntie]

I gotta admit, score one for the hammerer there.

I can't figure out why you all want slayers, we already have a melee squishie: Witch Hunter. In case you haven't noticed, Order is kinda sorta *slightly* ever so lacking on a decently armored (non-pet) mdps class.

Just thought I'd toss that out there. Its about as obvious as water being wet..... sky being blue.... but hey! Whatever.

We ain't squishy.
We are tough rugged dwarfs that shrug off the pounding that would cripple a Wiitch Hunter or White Lion.
We aint gonna fall over in a stiff breeze like a Witch Elf or Gobbo.

We aint easy to kill.