Tanked WoW for 3 years

[Manofpain]

Ive tanked in WoW for the past 3 years and Even EQ before that.. In wow my guild is progressed all the way up to MT Hyjal and BT is on farm.

My question is what are going to be the major differences in Tanking this game compared to WoW and EQ????

[Roargh Growler]

PvP tanking.

[Dagoth]

You can tank in pvp.

I don´t think there are major differences in PvE tanking.

Also, good god man, so many years of tanking and you want to roll another tank? Wouldn´t it be best to roll something different?

[Manofpain]

nah I enjoy tanking.. its fun to watch people waste all there CD's ( cooldowns ) and burn all there mana / combo points whatever trying to kill me.. I just sit back and slowly wittle there life away and eventually get them in the long run.. Its a blast !!! plus tanking in a large End Game guild that focuses on raiding actually takes a lot of skill !! I enjoy the challenges..

Funny thing is my Wife is a healer so me and her tag team stuff.. Its just another thing we do together besides watch football on Sunday and monday night.. How bout them Cowboys!!!!!

[Manofpain]

Also on another note. PvP tanking? how so? people get to choose there oppenent.. Its not like PvE where you can taunt.. This I am confused about.. unless the taunt draws them to attack you automatically even in PvP.. where the other player(s) has to attack you. If this is so that sounds awesome and I have waiting for that in wow... /sigh im so burnt out of WoW I wish this game would release already.. Estimated time is said to be around April to June of 2008.. /sigh again!

[LastHeretic]

how about ya watch a real sport! like rugby! :P

i think in PvE it's gonna be the same idea of having more "aggro" than the rest of the team.
in PvP though it'll be a whole lot more difficult and hopefully a more interesting challenge for a tanking veteran such as yourself.

[Dracohouston]

Still your basic build threat, try not to get hit all the time, don't get squished in 1 hit type thing. We don't know much about what sort of gear you'll need, if there's things like crushing blows and such. We'll have to wait and see :<

Here's a really incomplete ability list for Ironbreaker if you are rolling that

http://www.war-resource.com/careers/ironbreaker.php#abilities

Not much there, but might give you an idea how this class plays.

Here's a list of the stats that we know of. No idea if there's secondary stats like the ratings in WoW, not shown here is the 4 magical resist stats, they exist though.
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/articles/showentry.php?e=3

Got any specific questions?

[Manofpain]

lol rugby.. /sigh but if thats your prefrence then go at it!!! .. I enjoy football and played it since i was 7 and im 24 now.. 17 years of football = football fanatic!!

But anyways to get back to the subject im hopeing they make other players tauntable as well. That would make PvP tanking a HUGE challenge since your fighting other Players just as geared as you are.. That would be awesome!

[Dracohouston]

Also on another note. PvP tanking? how so? people get to choose there oppenent.. Its not like PvE where you can taunt.. This I am confused about.. unless the taunt draws them to attack you automatically even in PvP.. where the other player(s) has to attack you. If this is so that sounds awesome and I have waiting for that in wow... /sigh im so burnt out of WoW I wish this game would release already.. Estimated time is said to be around April to June of 2008.. /sigh again!

Taunt
A shout that Taunts your target, making them hate you more and reducing the damage they deal to everything else by 50% for 30 seconds.

Seen the ability description as 50% less damage to others until they hit you, not sure which one is correct. We'll see when that damn NDA drops.

Basically, in pvp you will be able to keep other players away from your team. It can't be done through just having aggro like PVE, but there's tricks to it.

First of all, unlike most MMOs, you cannot walk through an enemy player. To add to this there's a lot of things like snares, knock downs, stuns. The orc tanks can pick someone up and throw them. We do not know the exact moves and such that you'll use for defensive pvp play, but it is something that we are going to be able to do.

I hate the non disclosure agreement D: I wish the beta testers could spill the beans on everything.

[Manofpain]

Toughness
Reduces the damage you take from all sources.
Wounds
Increases your maximum hitpoints.
Initiative
Increases your chance to dodge ranged attacks and makes it more difficult for enemies to critically hit you.

Weapon
Increases your chances to parry melee attacks and allows your melee attacks to bypass a portion of the enemy's armor

These will be KEY factors for Tanks.. TY for the info Dracohouston

[Rik Riorik]

One of the main taunts of the tanks will be the 50%* damage reduction they will be able to give out to other player characters. Meaning unless the debuffed character attacks the tank he will only do 50%* of his normal damage.

*or how many %'s it might be.

[Baradun]

This thread should answer your questions about tanks, this quote allso explains the different types of tanks pretty well too:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=591713#post591713



Chosen uses debuff auras around him
Kotbs uses buff auras, presumably around him.
Swordmasters use balance which is sort of a combo building system. They can chose to use a shield or tank by dodging / deflecting depending on which path the swordmaster takes (yes he is the HE tank)
Black orcs use a combo building system
Dwarfs use a grudge (rage) mechanic which they build grudge from when their allies are hit and i guess when they are hit to, but definatly when their allies are hit.
Black guards only build Hate (rage) when they are hit. (presumably at an increased rate to that of a dwarf)

[Dracohouston]

Toughness
Reduces the damage you take from all sources.
Wounds
Increases your maximum hitpoints.
Initiative
Increases your chance to dodge ranged attacks and makes it more difficult for enemies to critically hit you.

Weapon
Increases your chances to parry melee attacks and allows your melee attacks to bypass a portion of the enemy's armor

These will be KEY factors for Tanks.. TY for the info Dracohouston


no problem dude.

To summarise what I said about pvp tanking:

You know how in arenas and such, healers die first, or warlocks, you know, assist trains. What mythic claim they are doing is making it so the guy in the big armour waving his shield about should usually become the first to have the assist train on them. Maybe even over the healers. Hopefully their effect on PVP is that big.

[teKmea]

actually the swordmaster tanks with a shield aswell (atleast the defensive mastery path is focused around sword&board according to 1 of the grabbags or whatever it was)

pvp tanking will pretty much work in 2 ways i believe
(a) trying to force ppl to attack you by debuffs/buffs etc (ex already said in this thread)

(b) trying to keep ppl away from your allies (slows/knockbacks/throwing allies away from danger, and last but not least collision detection on enemys) (and close to you so their only option is (a))

[Manofpain]

You know how in arenas and such, healers die first, or warlocks, you know, assist trains. What mythic claim they are doing is making it so the guy in the big armour waving his shield about should usually become the first to have the assist train on them. Maybe even over the healers. Hopefully their effect on PVP is that big.

That would be awesome.. I also have 70 mage / rogue that i use in WoW for PvP.. and might i say we also gank the healers first lol..

[Manofpain]

actually the swordmaster tanks with a shield aswell (atleast the defensive mastery path is focused around sword&board according to 1 of the grabbags or whatever it was)

pvp tanking will pretty much work in 2 ways i believe
(a) trying to force ppl to attack you by debuffs/buffs etc (ex already said in this thread)

(b) trying to keep ppl away from your allies (slows/knockbacks/throwing allies away from danger, and last but not least collision detection on enemys) (and close to you so their only option is (a))


Ok I beleive i understand the method behind it now.. Its actually damn near the same as WoW pvp tanking then. Fear/Stuns etc etc.. But this game sounds more indepth and more of a challenge. WoW was based on a gameplay of a 10 year old. This one seems a little more challenging and maybe for a crowd of atleast ATLEAST 15+.. I hate immature players that all they do is annoy the chats and spam people.. UGH and dont get me started on the gold farmers and spammers.. /sigh what a waste

[Baradun]

Tanks in War will be such a newsence with their 30% dammage debuff taunts, crowd controll abilitys, grudge mechanic for ironbreakers making it pretty much essential to take the tank out first if you want to live.

Plus with collision detection it'll be harder to get to the healers who can actually hold their own anyway and are more than likely to be up in the mix kicking and taking names with the tank.

Gone are the "and I heal, and I heal, and I heal" squishey finger wigglin nancy boy healers, all classes can hold their own in War.

[Manofpain]

Tanks in War will be such a newsence with their 30% dammage debuff taunts, crowd controll abilitys, grudge mechanic for ironbreakers making it pretty much essential to take the tank out first if you want to live. Plus with collision detection it'll be harder to get to the healers who can actually hold their own anyway and are more than likely to be up in the mix with the tank kicking and taking names with the tank.

nuff said !!!!! Tanks FTW (for the win) lol .. now im just eager to play the damn game more!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Aqe]

Many off the tanks will get better over time. They also seem to have many very annoying abilities that prevents you from killing their group.

[Nassarm]

Lets just say there's an enemy group of around 4 ironbreakers and 2 healers, and one ironbreaker has used the "Taunt" ability, does that mean that everyone else in that enemy group you attack (including the other ironbreakers that didnt use taunt) takes 50% less damage, or does it only cover any thing other than ironbreakers?
It would be a broken ability if it reduced damage to everyone else other than that single Ironbreaker, because how would you know which Ironbreaker to hit and which to avoid without already attacking one (unless there's a wee animation showing the tank that used taunt). Plus people could spam it making the target switch constantly and throwing an attack into chaos >.<

[Endemikus]

Tanks in War will be such a newsence with their 30% dammage debuff taunts, crowd controll abilitys, grudge mechanic for ironbreakers making it pretty much essential to take the tank out first if you want to live.

Sounds nice, but I really can't see it.

I can see tanks being a complete and utter pain, but I still expect healers to be the priority nuke. Tanks will be the thing that keeps them from going down straight away.

[Desiax]

I can see tanks being a complete and utter pain, but I still expect healers to be the priority nuke. Tanks will be the thing that keeps them from going down straight away.

I'll have to agree here. It may be harder to kill the healer but I think the healer is still the first that needs to die. I don't see how anything can be done about this since that's the biggest disability you can inflict.

Also, I'm VERY glad they aren't making it (at least I don't think they are) to where the tank actually forces you to attack him for x amount of time. That's lame as I've seen in EQ2. A Melee DPS pretty much can't do anything in combat because there are 2 or 3 tanks constantly taunting you into attacking them while the heals go up and the Ranged DPSers nuke people. That's what I've noticed from my experience anyway. I didn't really like that. I think WAR is heading in the right direction.

[Freax]

Player Collision. Nuff said.

And theres 6 tanking classes instead of just one, each with there own style but get the job done.... rhymes

[Ravenwing]

You can tank in pvp.

I don´t think there are major differences in PvE tanking.

Also, good god man, so many years of tanking and you want to roll another tank? Wouldn´t it be best to roll something different?

3 year tank veteran here - never gonna change

[Avathos]

Ive tanked in WoW for the past 3 years and Even EQ before that.. In wow my guild is progressed all the way up to MT Hyjal and BT is on farm.

My question is what are going to be the major differences in Tanking this game compared to WoW and EQ????

LOL
1st gratz for staying as MT for that long. i got burned out after 2 years in EQ-2

2nd the difference between tanking here and tanking PvE are infinte

[Duty]

First, if end game raids are truly your thing, you might want to be cautious about WAR. This is a primarily PvP game, raids are a side thing and not anything the devs are going to heavily focus on. I doubt you'll see a new raid dungeon with every patch, but instead you'll see new things for RvR. Just be aware of this ;)

Yes, there are confirmed things to help tank in PvP. Taunt being the most known. Some of the tanks' descriptions hint at things like crowd control and debuffs as well, making them ideal suppression candidates, and still other tanks' descriptions hint at high damage, making them great to lead the charge on a devastating assist train. "Tank" doesn't always mean the guy that protects teammates/gets aggro, a tank can also be a very tough front line dps'er (think guild wars warriors). Back in the BWL days, for example, rogues complained about fury warriors doing the same damage, but having more survivability.

So I guess be aware that the role of a PvP tank isn't consistent from group to group. One group could only have 1 healer, and 4 dps'ers, besides you, in which case they'll probably need a tank to protect the healer with peels, taunts, etc. Another group may have 3 healers, 1 dps'er and a tank, in addition to you, in which case they could use an assister or a main assist on the line. Your role can change month by month as well, changes are always being made for classes.

[Xilbalba]

Lets just say there's an enemy group of around 4 ironbreakers and 2 healers, and one ironbreaker has used the "Taunt" ability, does that mean that everyone else in that enemy group you attack (including the other ironbreakers that didnt use taunt) takes 50% less damage, or does it only cover any thing other than ironbreakers?
It would be a broken ability if it reduced damage to everyone else other than that single Ironbreaker, because how would you know which Ironbreaker to hit and which to avoid without already attacking one (unless there's a wee animation showing the tank that used taunt). Plus people could spam it making the target switch constantly and throwing an attack into chaos >.<

Yeah I think that's the point, this is what ff and assisting is all about. Dosen't matter who sets off the first taunt your gonna have to ff them one by one to take them out anyways. Viable pvp tankage achieved.

Think about it (if they're good) they won't hit the taunt all at the same time or one by one, they'll hit it in two's to cover each other since it's for the whole group "including other tanks". Then when you kill one, the third tank hits the taunt etc...till you run out of short men. I think I just came up with a new tactic.8) Chain taunts baby, viable with 2+ tanks.

[Lesane]

hopefully this game will not be similar to wow, just look at it atm, 24 classes, where in wow you have races who can all be the same classes (almost) this makes wow very dull very fast.

And this game is more a pvp than pve game, where wow is the opposite.
Hopefully the pvp environment in Warhammer will be so good there won't be the dire need for pve. many people reroll from WoW to Warhammer because of the pvp.

and I dont hope for fear/stun mechanics or players being tauntable as it would be directly retarded to taunt a player.

[Wthermans]

Toughness

Reduces the damage you take from all sources.

Wounds

Increases your maximum hitpoints.

Initiative

Increases your chance to dodge ranged attacks and makes it more difficult for enemies to critically hit you.


Weapon

Increases your chances to parry melee attacks and allows your melee attacks to bypass a portion of the enemy's armor


These will be KEY factors for Tanks.. TY for the info Dracohouston


Don't forget Strength. A lot of weapon ablities are based on melee attacks and since Strength decreases the chance for your blows to be parried/blocked, I'm sure you'll need to have a certain minimum of strength to allow you to effectively hold aggro.

[RavenCraven]

WoW this, WoW that! BAH!

[e0r]

hopefully they will get the pvp tanking right, because no other game has yet.

think about a battlefield. if you want to get the guys in the back, you have to kill all the guys in the front first so you can even get to them. if you try to run by you will just get killed or slam into a wall of shields. think about the front lines in the movie 300 with their phalanx formation. thats realistic.

most games you just run through the front line because there is no collision detection and just kill whoever you want in whatever order you want, which is completly unrealistic.

[Mo0rbid]

Ive tanked in WoW for the past 3 years and Even EQ before that.. In wow my guild is progressed all the way up to MT Hyjal and BT is on farm.

My question is what are going to be the major differences in Tanking this game compared to WoW and EQ????


hah, lol'd at the opening post. 90% brag and 10% actual forum material ;))

[Orock]

No script timers that will tell you when to hit taunt, and when flame wreath is cast so nobody move or the raid blows up.

Seriously I tanked in WoW, scripted fights are tired and not challenging. Tanking in this game is going to be alot like a combat healer, gotta watch everyones back, know who and what to counter/intercept from getting to your allies, and you have to have good reaction times. A script tank that is terrible in pvp in wow will be no better here, worse in fact from a lack of high end gear making up for his possible lack of pvp skill.

[Lucrece]

Th difference that will allow you to tank in PvP besides taunt debuffs and such is the fact that this game will be made so that only tank classes have significant CC capabilities, while all the other damage/support classes will not.

No more stunlocks+single highest target DPS at the same time. No more fears+500 DPS just from DoTs while you are disabled.

CC's in this game will be used for tanks in order to let them entice the enemy into attacking them.

[Phiphler]

How come no one mentioned Guard yet?

Its an ability which protects the person you are Guarding, either by funneling a fraction of the damage to you, or by increasing their armor and toughness. The catch is that you have to stay close to them, so its best applied on the melee healer.

AFAIK, all tanks are set to recieve this ability.

[Gorig'nak]

hopefully this game will not be similar to wow, just look at it atm, 24 classes, where in wow you have races who can all be the same classes (almost) this makes wow very dull very fast.

I believe this is incorrect. You have 24 Careers, but only 4 archtypes: Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS. It's much easier to balance 4 "classes" who do similar things in different ways.

And yes, adding a tank mechanic to PvP will definately throw some monkey wrenches in the works. You'll change from shouting "Kill the damn healer!" to "Will somebody please remove this brick wall from my sight!".

[Phiphler]

A warrior priest is not a Goblin Shaman. They are different in every aspect except their goals, healing people and dealing some damage.

While we have 4 archetypes, WoW had that as well, in a very funny way.

Tank: Prot Warriors, Bear Druids.
Healing: Paladins, Holy Priests, Resto Druids, Resto Shamans.
Melee DPS: Rogues.
Ranged DPS: Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, Shadow Priests.

[Jtmk]

Btw. In podcast they said that you have to get KoTBS down before healer, beacause of his buffs, I guess : )

[Norick13]

But anyways to get back to the subject im hopeing they make other players tauntable as well. That would make PvP tanking a HUGE challenge since your fighting other Players just as geared as you are.. That would be awesome!

Taunt isn't going to work in the way you are thinking. It doesn't, as far as the taunt skills we've seen, cause your opponent to change targets; rather it cause everyone within the range of the taunt to do 50% less damage to everyone, but you. A much cooler mechanic I think.

[Gemini]

Taunt isn't going to work in the way you are thinking. It doesn't, as far as the taunt skills we've seen, cause your opponent to change targets; rather it cause everyone within the range of the taunt to do 50% less damage to everyone, but you. A much cooler mechanic I think.

Not quite, it causes a target to do 50% less damage to everyone but you, not everyone within range.

[Fat Otaku]

Tanks are going to be the roadblock and linebackers I think. We stop people from moving forward, and take down anyone who tries to get around us with the Melee DPS going forward.

Mez and TC should fight sometime. Small dwarf and small armor mean not az stong as big orc and big armor. Yez?

[Skwisgaar]

Mez and TC should fight sometime. Small dwarf and small armor mean not az stong as big orc and big armor. Yez?
Fail ;) We dwarfs will have shiny gromril armor to protect us... I'll gladly take bets about weather the orc rabble can stay on par with the dwarven smiths? No? Good. :D


On a more serious note: No OP, I don't think (nor do i hope) 'that other game' will be like WAR in any aspect what so ever. There were no such thing as tanking in WoW PvP, the only way to balance stuff was making the tanks ing DPS powerhouses - a grand failure. WAR on the other hand will have debuffs/taunts/mechanics that will enable the tanks to fulfill their true role in their groups.

So please, go back to your scripted bot fights - because that's what WoW tanks are, mere bots. (One might even think that would apply to the whole PvE aspect of that game).

[Tro]

PvP tanking.
you never played a protection pallys before

[Lucrece]

you never played a protection pallys before


........... I hope this was sarcasm.

[Spifnar]

Not quite, it causes a target to do 50% less damage to everyone but you, not everyone within range.

The latest rumor on taunts is that they're set at 30% damage reduction, because 50% was a bit much.

But the single target taunts act like you say: The target that gets taunted deals less damage to everything but the taunter.

No real word on any AE taunts except from an early skill list for the squig herder (his pet AE taunts...but taunt amount and damage reduction unknown). I'd assume a long cooldown on these, and a weaker damage reduction.

Note that I've seen DPS detaunt abilities too. Something like: detaunts target and target deals 10% less damage to you.

[Kaybek]

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread yet but it's possible I just missed it. Anyway, another reason tanking in PvP will be viable is the fact that the longer you live, the more grudge/rage/whatever you generate and this directly translates into being able to increase your effective DPS.

So, to summarize, you can tank PvP in Warhammer by:

1. Taunt to reduce targets ability to do damage to your allies
2. The longer you live, the more your ability to DPS increases
3. You can physically block oponents from your allies
4. You have various means of "snaring" or momentarily immobilizing your opponent.

it's been a while since I've played WoW but as I recall, none of that was possible there with the exception of a limited amount of #4

[Foofmonger]

1. Taunt to reduce targets ability to do damage to your allies
2. The longer you live, the more your ability to DPS increases
3. You can physically block oponents from your allies
4. You have various means of "snaring" or momentarily immobilizing your opponent.



2. This isn't the case for all tanks. Just Ironbreakers/Black Guards from what we know.

And its more like, The longer you live in combat, the more effective you become at doing damage and tanking.

The rest are true though.