masteries

[aegir]

Ok so what do you think they can add as masteriepaths for the Archmage?
I think they shouldn't go along the line of -healing- -damage- -buffing- or anything equally boring. I think they should add paths like the BW that you have: DD&healing AOEdamage&healing DOTdamage&healing.
This way you wouldnt really specialize in healing or nuking, but specialize further in different aspects of doing so. In this way you could specialize in let's say AOE, then you could choose to take either more healing oriënted AOE or more damage oriënted AOE. In this way you could rush into the fray of battle while you blast away at your oponents while healing your allies using different AOEs who are either more healing or damage oriënted. Think of the priest in 'the other game', they had a spell named holy nova that damages enemies and heals your allies.
I think Mythic would do a great job in designing the masteries for the archmages, or support classes in general, like this, since they are supposed to be more offence orriënted than in other games.

your thoughts?

[Dastion]

I seriously doubt Archmages will get many, if any, AoEs DDs, let alone a mastery path related to them.

However, from what we know of mastery paths, it seems that their intent is to specialize your character without changing your role, they simply make you better at your role in different aspects. Therefore, I think that the possibilities involve.

Support Mastery: Gives the best heals that require drain magic, as well as some minor buffs.

Destruction Mastery: Gives you better options for building your special mechanic through destructive spells. What I would love to see is a bolt-type spell like from DAoC had that builds a magical reserve and deals heavy damage, but with a longer than average casting time and a cool down (bolts are meant to be long range openers). Possibly even some nukes that require stored magic to cast, though this seems unlikely.

Drain Mastery: Gives you more types of Drain Magic spells to build your mechanic for healing, and possibly spells that drain different types of stats. One may Drain AP from an enemy and give you a magical reserve, another may drain AP from an enemy and give the AP directly to your party.

Tactics:
I'd like to see some interesting passive effects. Such as,

"Empowered Healing": Your heals have a X% chance per point(or some value) of Drain Magic used to give the target X AP.

"Steal Magic": Whenever you disrupt a spell you gain X Stored Magic.

"Living Magic": X% chance for your spells (damage or healing) to jump to a nearby ally/opponent.

Also things that allow you to give up a little bit of healing for bonus damage, and vice versa, so as to fit your playstyle at the moment. Someone posted a list of the "known" Runepriest tactics and they look amazing, they can gain a ton of special effects for their heals and I hope to see some interesting similar effects.

[Flash Gitz]

I agree with aegir here. If the masteries are as simple as "heal tree" "damage tree" and "drain tree" there is one very obvious outcome: to be accepted in groups and do good, you will need to maximize the "heal tree." It will end up pigeon hole-ing the class into one spec. It would be WoW paladins/druids 2.0, which would be a damn shame.

I agree something along the lines of DD&healing AOEdamage&healing DOTdamage&healing. And why shouldn't the archmage have spells in all these categories? From what we've seen the shaman does, and he's wielding inferior magic in terms of spell diversity.

[aegir]

That's what i really hated about other games, i think you should be able to play the way you like and not be forced to specc into something you don't want to do, also like you said all the archetypes should still fit their role. So if you go and specc DD&healing, you would do awesome singletarget healing and pretty good direct dmg. You could also specc hybrid and be good at everything.
Let's say you wanna do PVE, so you specc single target healing. Then you go into an instanced PvP encounter. Because you specced DD&healing you can still help out your team by healing and doing pretty good damage, instead of 'and i heal and i heal'.

[Gemini]

I too am against the school of thought that includes a single healing path and a single damage path, or in the tank's case a single tanking path and single damgage path. So, here are my ideas for the Archmage:

Path of Sorcery: This path is pretty straight-forward, big heals and big nukes. The Archmage would be forsaking subltly for the raw power of straight damage and large, less spamable heals. Tactics would focus on making the damage spells hit harder and the heal spells heal for more and for less AP and cast time. The morale ability could be a strong nuke that also heals the Archmage's party a small amount.

Path of Secrets: This path focuses on spells with lasting effects and will include the Archmage's buff spells as well as heal over time spells. The Archmage's powers would focus on empowering allies and keeping them hale and hearty, in more subtle ways than that of the Path of Sorcorery. Tactics would focus on making the buffs last longer and cost less AP and making the HoT spells heal for more on each tick and lowering the cooldown so they could be applied to multiple targets if need be. The morale ability could be a large group-buff that also heals for small amount over time.

Path of Defiance: This path would increase the power of the Archmage's magic draining abilities as well as self-target spells the Archmage has, such as self-heals. The Archmage who walks this path believes that in order to best benefit his or her groupmates, they must be able to keep themselves going even against overwhelming odds. Tactics would benefit the drain magic ability(s) as well as any self-target or survival skills the Archmage has. The morable ability could be a strong self-heal that also restores a chunk of AP.

So, what do yall think?

[ChosenOne]

A very good start Gemini.

It is Essential that each path we try to create here is Viable.

Now one thing we cannot forget is that there will be three support classes on the side of Order. That means its doubtful that all three will be looked at to be fully healing classes. Remember the thread we had about building the perfect 6 man group?

We had people choosing the support classes for different reasons. Often times they didnt choose the archmage as the main healer but as a secondary healer that also was nuking when his heals werent necessary.


So even if there is a path focusing on the heal spells, that wont be all an archmage wants to work on, especially if they are using more damage spells and then using large spot heals to cover what some other supporters are doing.

One thing I truly believe and will stress is that you wont want every single archmage in your battlegroup to be of the same build. If all paths are viable then it would only limit you if every archmage was made the same.

[aegir]

A very good start Gemini.

It is Essential that each path we try to create here is Viable.

Now one thing we cannot forget is that there will be three support classes on the side of Order. That means its doubtful that all three will be looked at to be fully healing classes. Remember the thread we had about building the perfect 6 man group?

We had people choosing the support classes for different reasons. Often times they didnt choose the archmage as the main healer but as a secondary healer that also was nuking when his heals werent necessary.


So even if there is a path focusing on the heal spells, that wont be all an archmage wants to work on, especially if they are using more damage spells and then using large spot heals to cover what some other supporters are doing.

One thing I truly believe and will stress is that you wont want every single archmage in your battlegroup to be of the same build. If all paths are viable then it would only limit you if every archmage was made the same.
I completely agree with you and that's why i think that damagin and healing 'talents' should be scattered around the paths, allowing you to heal and nuke in different ways instead of only nuking or only healing.
Gemini i think that you designed a very capable and interesting masterie set, although i think it would lead to the sorcery path becoming the 'cookie cutter build'. With some changes and replacements i think it would be perfect though. It would be a good idea to add aoe buffs to the survival path to make enemies wear themselves out against you and your allies, maybe healing you allies in the process.
Anyway a nice idea. Anyone got more thoughts or wants to add something?

[Dastion]

Whatever the actual paths may be, it has been said that masteries will not change your role. A tank won't be able to become a melee DPS, for example. However, certain trees will be more offensive than others, and some will be more defensive. The trees simply emphasize how you do your role, not define your role.

Therefore, it can be assumed if you prefer to build up healing power through drains, you can specialize in that, if you prefer to build it up through destructive magic you can go that route. While I agree that it would be a good idea to do away with a direct "healing" path, it's probably not something they will be able to get around. But rest assured you will still be more than capable at your role no matter what you choose. The only issues will arise with those who want to turn a healer archetype into a DPS archetype that can heal itself. THey will spec for as much damage as possible and ignore all the other tools they have at their disposal.

[Gemini]

Therefore, it can be assumed if you prefer to build up healing power through drains, you can specialize in that, if you prefer to build it up through destructive magic you can go that route. While I agree that it would be a good idea to do away with a direct "healing" path, it's probably not something they will be able to get around. But rest assured you will still be more than capable at your role no matter what you choose. The only issues will arise with those who want to turn a healer archetype into a DPS archetype that can heal itself. THey will spec for as much damage as possible and ignore all the other tools they have at their disposal.


I don't mind if there is a direct healing path persay, but I want there to be other paths that can keep up with it in terms of healing/support type stuff.

[Yog]

Since Archmage will be the only healer for the high elves I would guess that they wouldn't give the Archmage an option for gimping their healing. I think the type of masteries they will have will be along the lines of style as opposed to mechanics. Like instead of being able to increase your capability of nuking you will be able to specialize in a type of spell that is common for both dps and healing. Like AoE dps and healing. Or increase the number of DoT and HoT spells in order to spread yourself to a greater amount of people. Maybe even give a secondary effect to your spells like increase for a target when healed or decrease healing for a target when damaged. I think it is a good idea they don't plan on doing the same old increase dps or increase healing trees.

As a former Red Mage player in FFXI I hope the Archmage has some strong buff and debuff spells.

[Are'el]

I too like the idea of the different Masteries all having something to do with healing. Just in different ways. But if not, I don't think you can automatically assume that healing would be "gimped" if you went down a DPS Mastery. Choosing that Mastery doesn't make the other abilities weaker. They just don't get a boost. And as long as the Masteries don't completely alter the character's roll, or are grossly overpowered, then the difference in healing for one spec won't be entirely different than that of another spec.

[Yog]

I too like the idea of the different Masteries all having something to do with healing. Just in different ways. But if not, I don't think you can automatically assume that healing would be "gimped" if you went down a DPS Mastery. Choosing that Mastery doesn't make the other abilities weaker. They just don't get a boost. And as long as the Masteries don't completely alter the character's roll, or are grossly overpowered, then the difference in healing for one spec won't be entirely different than that of another spec.

You are right. I should have chosen another word to describe it. What I really meant is the fact that if you choose to focus on dps in turn you are losing capability to heal...not in the sense that it is taken away from you but in the sense that you are neglecting to increase it. I don't know how the mechanics of this game will end up working but in many games the increase of healing capabilities is imperative to the healer. If they in fact allowed a mastery that solely increased healing choosing not to use this mastery would leave you being a sub-par healer resulting in a loss of respect among those in need of heals.

As far as I have read though they aren't doing this so we have no need to worry.

[aegir]

You are right. I should have chosen another word to describe it. What I really meant is the fact that if you choose to focus on dps in turn you are losing capability to heal...not in the sense that it is taken away from you but in the sense that you are neglecting to increase it. I don't know how the mechanics of this game will end up working but in many games the increase of healing capabilities is imperative to the healer. If they in fact allowed a mastery that solely increased healing choosing not to use this mastery would leave you being a sub-par healer resulting in a loss of respect among those in need of heals.

As far as I have read though they aren't doing this so we have no need to worry.
I think, and hope so too. I really think that the masterie paths should introduce different ways of healing and damaging instead of just focusing on healing and/or damaging. This way all the healer could just play in the fashion they like and not be pidgeonholed into a healingspec, since all the masterie specs would include healing.
On the other hand if you want to excel at AOE, you could pick the damaging AOE spells over the healing AOE's and become more excelling at damaging anyways, so there is basically something for everyone in this way.

[mikaleon]

I'd love it if they mixed damaging and/or drain spells with the healing masteries.

I.E. Certain offensive spells would be gained as a reward for having several points in healing masteries.

So we archmages don't become healbots, in which case I'm heading down the path of a Swordmaster.

[aegir]

OK so what do you guys wanna see exactly? something along the lines of AOE, DD&H and D&HOT, or something more specific ie. utility, drains etc.

[mikaleon]

Accidental double post, please delete it.

[Are'el]

Thanks to the Jan newsletter, we have a little more insight into the Masteries of the support classes. From the Grab Bag:
On top of that, you can sacrifice your healing power to improve you’re offensive or defensive abilities through specialization & tactic selection. Overall, we’ve found that healers have been quite potent in most cases (sometimes too potent), especially when they have the support of a solid group backing them.

Also, about Warrior Priests:
Warrior Priest Masteries

Path of Salvation
The Path of Salvation focuses on divine magic, primarily healing abilities. A player who specializes in Salvation will become a much more powerful healer, although they will still need to place themselves into the front lines of a melee combat in order to build up their Righteous Fury.

Path of Grace
The Path of Grace is centered around melee attacks which inspire and bolster the Warrior Priest and his allies. A Master of Grace will be able to simultaneously wreak havoc upon his enemies with his warhammer and improve himself and his companions, making him an especially valuable player when standing side-by-side with other allies.

Path of Wrath
The Path of Wrath is focused on crippling melee attacks which weaken, hinder, and harass the player's opponents. Someone who specializes in Wrath will certainly be the most offensively-focused type of Warrior Priest, as they will be both damaging their enemies and weakening them with each swing of their warhammer.
So it looks like the Archmage will probably have a Mastery of (Healing), Mastery of (Hurting), and a Mastery of (Other). Now the only question is, will one particular build be more sought out than the others? To an extent, yeah, but probably not as much as you would find in a PvE game. PvP allows for more flexibility in builds, so I suspect that you probably won't lose your spot on the team just because you haven't specced the healing path.

[aegir]

Thanks to the Jan newsletter, we have a little more insight into the Masteries of the support classes. From the Grab Bag:


Also, about Warrior Priests:

So it looks like the Archmage will probably have a Mastery of (Healing), Mastery of (Hurting), and a Mastery of (Other). Now the only question is, will one particular build be more sought out than the others? To an extent, yeah, but probably not as much as you would find in a PvE game. PvP allows for more flexibility in builds, so I suspect that you probably won't lose your spot on the team just because you haven't specced the healing path.
yup it indeed looks like that, and i also hope that things will still be a bit mixed i.e. healing to nuke, nuking to heal, and other.

[Mortissia]

Path of Salvation - healing spec

Path of Grace - buffing spec

Path of Wrath - debuffing (maybe some damage ... unclear)


What kind of specs will be available? Obviously Healing, Buffing, and Debuffing are possibilities. There could be a Damage spec. There might be a soft CC spec (Roots and Snares but this might be considered Debuffing). For the Archmage there might be a Drain spec but I don't know exactly what the possibilities for that spec might be.

I remember a very popular spec in DAoC, the Mana Eldritch. This was a ranged damage class but a support spec of that class. No healing but it had AoE damage + Snare, AE Disease (which was a debuff of speed and and the effects of healing on the target), and an AE debuff of health and melee damage. This seems similar to what an Archmage might be able to do ... control the battlefield. I don't know ... just a thought.

[Axxar]

I was thinking along similar lines as Yog when I read the first post in the topic.
Basically:

Mastery 1: Single target damage and single target healing.
Mastery 2: AOE damage and AOE healing.
Mastery 3: DoT damage and HoT healing.

I don't really envision the archmage as a buffer in the same fashion as the warrior priest, going by their career description, so a buffing or debuffing line doesn't seem as obvious for him as it does for the warrior priest. Like shamans they appear to be mostly nukers and healers.

[Lucrece]

I too am against the school of thought that includes a single healing path and a single damage path, or in the tank's case a single tanking path and single damgage path. So, here are my ideas for the Archmage:

Path of Sorcery: This path is pretty straight-forward, big heals and big nukes. The Archmage would be forsaking subltly for the raw power of straight damage and large, less spamable heals. Tactics would focus on making the damage spells hit harder and the heal spells heal for more and for less AP and cast time. The morale ability could be a strong nuke that also heals the Archmage's party a small amount.

Path of Secrets: This path focuses on spells with lasting effects and will include the Archmage's buff spells as well as heal over time spells. The Archmage's powers would focus on empowering allies and keeping them hale and hearty, in more subtle ways than that of the Path of Sorcorery. Tactics would focus on making the buffs last longer and cost less AP and making the HoT spells heal for more on each tick and lowering the cooldown so they could be applied to multiple targets if need be. The morale ability could be a large group-buff that also heals for small amount over time.

Path of Defiance: This path would increase the power of the Archmage's magic draining abilities as well as self-target spells the Archmage has, such as self-heals. The Archmage who walks this path believes that in order to best benefit his or her groupmates, they must be able to keep themselves going even against overwhelming odds. Tactics would benefit the drain magic ability(s) as well as any self-target or survival skills the Archmage has. The morable ability could be a strong self-heal that also restores a chunk of AP.

So, what do yall think?

Ideal but unrealistic considering the precedent Mythic has established with the released preliminary mastery paths for both the WP and Chosen. They decided to forego creativity and introduce the age-old system of "offensive, class gimmick, defensive" paths that bring pigeon-holing galore.

[Axxar]

None of the warrior priest paths say anything about dealing extra damage, so that's somewhat of a premature statement. So far the warrior priest paths seem to be simply healing, buffing and debuffing.

[Lucrece]

None of the warrior priest paths say anything about dealing extra damage, so that's somewhat of a premature statement. So far the warrior priest paths seem to be simply healing, buffing and debuffing.

The most "offensive" path focused on crippling opponents with your hammer. It pretty much implies damage increase.

Either way, the fact that there's a unique path solely focused on the archetype's duty-- in the WP's case, healing-- opens up the doorway for pigeonholing.

[Axxar]

Sounds more like a debuffing path to me.

[Gemini]

To me it just means hammer attacks. There are probably debuffs, but they probably do okay damage too. I don't think it has to be anything specific, just hammer attacks.

[Axxar]

Well, to clairfy I meant debuffing through hitting people with your hammer. A "crippling attack" for instance could be an attack that puts a debuff on the opponent that makes his damage crap for a while, or stuns him for a few seconds.

[Mortissia]

Debuffs such as "debuffs defence (AC)" and "debuffs resistance" will indirectly result in more damage.

[Spifnar]

There will not be 3 damage trees for the Archmage.

And I don't get the "combo" trees that people are posting. In multiple skill-tree or specialization games (DAoC, WoW, others) you have enough points to fully spec one tree and have enough to go partway into another.

So I would expect:

Heal Tree - Augments straight heals
Drain/Power Transfer Tree - Increases how much you power "stealing" (or whatever mechanic they give the archmage) affects all your base abilities
DD/Buff/Debuff Tree - Obvious

[Foofmonger]

I'd like something like

Path for healing/draining spells.

Path for nuking/buffing spells.

Path for utility (cc)/debuff spells.

[Kaeldor]

Beyond the White Tower of Hoeth is the Tower of Flames. This enigmatic spire is home to the famed Dragon Mages, the undisputed masters of the Wind of Fire. Young mages who find themselves ill-suited to the quiet contemplation of the White Tower, and who prefer to devote their magical affinity to the defense of Ulthuan, can travel to the Tower of Flames and focus their studies on fire magic. Their trials are long and arduous, and few initiates take on the mantle of Dragon Mage without first being burned.

Reading this I'd found it really cool if one of the paths of the archmage would be dragon mage :mrgreen: I mean just as a damage spec, without dragon and all.


I know this won't happen because of lore and game mechanics, but it'd be great.

[wellsy]

Reading this I'd found it really cool if one of the paths of the archmage would be dragon mage :mrgreen: I mean just as a damage spec, without dragon and all.


I know this won't happen because of lore and game mechanics, but I'd great.

I can understand where you're coming from, but a Dragon Mage is a lesser caster than an Archmage. A Dragon Mage would be like an Elven Bright Wizard... with a Dragon in tow, of course :D.

So the Archmage won't be seeing any "Dragon Mage" masteries, or at least, not according to my understanding of the current lore.

But what this does mean is that we'll see dragons all over Ulthuan... and that has to be a good thing. 8)

[Sonofathel]

But what this does mean is that we'll see dragons all over Ulthuan... and that has to be a good thing.

Or at least 1 or 2 in Saphery and Caledor (obviously) if that zone is in.

I thought the same thing about dragon mages when I read that part too. Deep down I hope theres at least come kind of PC nod to them but I don't want to get my hopes up. Fingers crossed and all that jazz though.

[snapmaster]

the dragon mage bit to me seems like the place where bright wizards will go to get all their higher level spells (or at least some good ones).
i mean, who better to learn the really powerful spells in the world from than the really powerful fire mages in the world :P



personally, i think it would be cool if you could join the ranks of the dragon mages, if only to get some neat armour/staff/head dress.

[Kaeldor]

I can understand where you're coming from, but a Dragon Mage is a lesser caster than an Archmage. A Dragon Mage would be like an Elven Bright Wizard... with a Dragon in tow, of course :D.

So the Archmage won't be seeing any "Dragon Mage" masteries, or at least, not according to my understanding of the current lore.

But what this does mean is that we'll see dragons all over Ulthuan... and that has to be a good thing. 8)

No, no, no Dragon Mages wouldn't be like Bright wizards, after all being superior and all, they wouldn't have to cope with combustion, so they just could go BAMM BAMM BAMM all the time :mrgreen:.

Just kidding, as I said, I also think there is no chance to get a "Dragon Master" mastery, but still it would be cool.

[RedAries]

Considering the Archmage is NOT ranged DPS (that's the Shadow Warrior) I'd like to see mastery lines that focus on support instead. Also, being masters of magic, I'm really hoping for something similar to the Guild Wars Mesmer class (countermagic, magic disabling etc). The main thing that cements this class in my mind compared to the Mesmer is their already known Drain Magic ability. I know this game isn't Guild Wars, but the Mesmer was my favourite role in that game.

Taken from a writeup of magic on Wikipeida; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lores_of_Magic "High Elves study magic as pure mystical energy, unlike the wizards of the Empire. In game, the lore has many spells to be used against enemy wizards."

Here are the masteries I propose, and would like to see;

Protective Artes
Drawing upon the lore of Saphery, the Archmage weaves enchantments to heal and protect their allies. Archmages who specialize in protection know how to create wards to prevent damage and mitigate the effects of the offensive capabilities of their foes. The Archmage can also heal damage and recover status ailments using this line.

Disruption Artes
Using their mastery of arcane forces, the Archmage weaves powerful counter-magic to disrupt or disable the enemies abilities. While these abilities often have short duration, their effects can be devastating when timed right. Drawing from the Guild Wars mesmer, I envision things like abilities that cause spellcasters to take damage when they cast spells, debuffs that cause abilities to use more AP, or cause abilities to take slightly longer to cool down. An archmage who focuses on Disruption is easily overlooked by unskilled opponents, because their effects in battle are less obvious, you don't see them causing big nukes or healing, but they can make it more difficult for enemies to do their job. By using Disruption artes on a main damage dealer, you reduce the need for healing and can still perform a vital role in damage mitigation. (Damage mitigation is more than about healing)

Destructive Artes
For Archmages that want to focus on damage, this is the path that enables them to focus on the raw destructive power of the arcane. Not really much to say here, other than there should be one spec line for damage.

If the Archmage gets a spec-line dealing in abilities that are similar to the Guild W arsMesmer, then I'd definatly play an Archmage as my main character, I was a master Mesmer back when I was competitive in Guild Wars. IF not then I'll stick with my Engineer HAR!

[aegir]

Disruption Artes
Using their mastery of arcane forces, the Archmage weaves powerful counter-magic to disrupt or disable the enemies abilities. While these abilities often have short duration, their effects can be devastating when timed right. Drawing from the Guild Wars mesmer, I envision things like abilities that cause spellcasters to take damage when they cast spells, debuffs that cause abilities to use more AP, or cause abilities to take slightly longer to cool down. An archmage who focuses on Disruption is easily overlooked by unskilled opponents, because their effects in battle are less obvious, you don't see them causing big nukes or healing, but they can make it more difficult for enemies to do their job. By using Disruption artes on a main damage dealer, you reduce the need for healing and can still perform a vital role in damage mitigation. (Damage mitigation is more than about healing)
Yeah I think it's a bit too much CC, and locking enemies out of the fight, so there probably isn't going to be a tree like that, although I think it's awesome and, I too love the mesmer. soo To Bad i guess.

[Eliphas-WorldBearer]

Basing from the other support classes its gonna be something like...

-Healing Tree
Casts damage nukes so he can cast more powerful healing spells

-Damage Tree
Casts heals spells so he can cast more powerful damage nukes

-Debuff/Buff Tree
Casts spells that weakens enemies and strengthens allies

Again all speculation...

[aegir]

Basing from the other support classes its gonna be something like...

-Healing Tree
Casts damage nukes so he can cast more powerful healing spells

-Damage Tree
Casts heals spells so he can cast more powerful damage nukes

-Debuff/Buff Tree
Casts spells that weakens enemies and strengthens allies

Again all speculation...
Sadly enough I think you're on the right track there.

[ChosenOne]

Sadly enough I think you're on the right track there.

Whats wrong with that? Do you have a problem with the fact that all 6 tanks can fit under the tank archetype?

They do it differently thus its different gameplay.

Just because the archmage might have similiar mastery trees doesnt mean that they work the same as others. The gameplay is still different, but it can be classified into the same three lines of spells.

[aegir]

Whats wrong with that? Do you have a problem with the fact that all 6 tanks can fit under the tank archetype?

They do it differently thus its different gameplay.

Just because the archmage might have similiar mastery trees doesnt mean that they work the same as others. The gameplay is still different, but it can be classified into the same three lines of spells.
Yes but i kinda hoped that it would all be mixed together rather then a straight nuking/healing/buffing path.. Since that brings back 'ToG'-the other game- memories..

[ChosenOne]

Yes but i kinda hoped that it would all be mixed together rather then a straight nuking/healing/buffing path.. Since that brings back 'ToG'-the other game- memories..

It is mixed together sir. You will have enough points to have abilities in different lines. You will have Core abilities, abilities that Everyone has, that are affected by these masteries.

That means that you will be able to do everything, the masteries just allow you to be a little stronger in a certain aspect.

Once again, do not let WoW cloud your perspective. You are not just a shadow priest, or a disc priest, or a holy priest. You are an Archmage. You cast destruction spells at your enemy and syphon some magic away from the spell to use later. When your allies need your aid you can aid them. You do not have to decide to be either a destruction spell archmage or a healing spell archmage. You are both.

Now you can decide that you are going to have your destruction spells be a little bit stronger, or your healing spells be a little bit stronger but that doesnt mean you cant do the other.

We dont know yet how this will all balance out. That discussion is best left to when we can actually play it and find out. What we Do know is that you will be able to do all three aspects thanks to Core abilities.

[aegir]

It is mixed together sir. You will have enough points to have abilities in different lines. You will have Core abilities, abilities that Everyone has, that are affected by these masteries.

That means that you will be able to do everything, the masteries just allow you to be a little stronger in a certain aspect.

Once again, do not let WoW cloud your perspective. You are not just a shadow priest, or a disc priest, or a holy priest. You are an Archmage. You cast destruction spells at your enemy and syphon some magic away from the spell to use later. When your allies need your aid you can aid them. You do not have to decide to be either a destruction spell archmage or a healing spell archmage. You are both.

Now you can decide that you are going to have your destruction spells be a little bit stronger, or your healing spells be a little bit stronger but that doesnt mean you cant do the other.

We dont know yet how this will all balance out. That discussion is best left to when we can actually play it and find out. What we Do know is that you will be able to do all three aspects thanks to Core abilities.
Well more specifically what I was hoping is that the trees would be more orriënted towards differentiating your playstyle, as in becoming a stand-back a healer, an in the fray healer, or a supporting healer. But rather than that it's -just- turning out to be a -become better at one thing- system.

[Elborn]

Don't know if it's still true, but I read that every character will be able to fully specialize in 2 of the 3 paths.

If it ends up being

Healing Spec
Buff/Debuff Spec
Damage Spec

then most guilds will want their healer players to maximize their Healing spec, so you would probably never see a healer with a Buff-Debuff/Damage spec. They will be all Healing/Damage or Healing/Buff-Debuff.

I think it would have been better if none of the specialization paths were for Healing. Or if abilities of healing were sprinkled around all the paths. Kind of like:

Path 1: Damage & Single Target Healing Spec
Path 2: Buff/Debuff & Heal Over Time Spec
Path 3: Weapon Combat & Group Heal Spec

So no matter which 2 paths you took, you'd always have good healing abilities.

[ChosenOne]

Well more specifically what I was hoping is that the trees would be more orriënted towards differentiating your playstyle, as in becoming a stand-back a healer, an in the fray healer, or a supporting healer. But rather than that it's -just- turning out to be a -become better at one thing- system.

Stand back healer would be the Heal/damage archmage.

Supporting healer would be the heal/buff archmage.

In the fray healer? Why would you do that with a squishy?

[Silas]

Stand back healer would be the Heal/damage archmage.

Supporting healer would be the heal/buff archmage.

In the fray healer? Why would you do that with a squishy?

Since Archmages fall into the support archetype, they "should" have medium armour ;)

It will be interesting to see how different the class will be compared to the Shaman.

[ChosenOne]

Since Archmages fall into the support archetype, they "should" have medium armour ;)

It will be interesting to see how different the class will be compared to the Shaman.

Warrior priests and disciples are melee based and have medium armor. You think your ranged healer should have equivalent armor as them? Not gonna happen.

[Eliphas-WorldBearer]

Archmages should dual wield a sword and staff too...Gandalf style :p

[ManiaCCC]

Well more specifically what I was hoping is that the trees would be more orriënted towards differentiating your playstyle, as in becoming a stand-back a healer, an in the fray healer, or a supporting healer. But rather than that it's -just- turning out to be a -become better at one thing- system.

I think mixed masteries would just bring more problems and less customization. I think the dedicated trees like healing, damage and buff/debuffs is the best design of materies.

[aegir]

I think mixed masteries would just bring more problems and less customization. I think the dedicated trees like healing, damage and buff/debuffs is the best design of materies.
maybe it is. But if all archmages get pidgeonholed into a healing spec it will just cause less individuality because all archmages would have a healing spec, save some outcasts that are gonna spec damage anyways.

[ManiaCCC]

maybe it is. But if all archmages get pidgeonholed into a healing spec it will just cause less individuality because all archmages would have a healing spec, save some outcasts that are gonna spec damage anyways.

It's problem with people... not with masteries....Just ignore these people

I said It many times and I will say it again . No matter how materies would be designed.. Even if all masteries would be focused to dealing damage, some people would just find the "best" spec for healing (you are healer archtype, you just must heal - according these people) and force other people to spec like they want.

[aegir]

It's problem with people... not with masteries....Just ignore these people

I said It many times and I will say it again . No matter how materies would be designed.. Even if all masteries would be focused to dealing damage, some people would just find the "best" spec for healing (you are healer archtype, you just must heal - according these people) and force other people to spec like they want.
True. Although I must say, I'm really not a cookie-cutter-speccer (balance druid/fury warr/disc priest). So I think I will most likely be speccing buff/debuff if there is a masterie like that.

[Morelius]

Having viewed the sorceress' masteries on that recent video, I am gonna hazard a guess as to the archmages:

Direct Damage w single target damage buffs to self/other (debuffs could reduce an enemies damage output)

Direct Healing w single target survival/defensive buffs to self/other (debuffs could reduce an enemies armor, or reduce its healing it can receive)

AOE Damage and AOE healing w aura type buffs. (debuffs can be all enemies in area around archmage suffer a certain debuff)

Hmm not sure if I have thought this through yet though. Notice in the video he talks about combos of masteries for ones that are designed for different aspects of the game: ie. A soloing build, a keep defensive build, and an instance/public quest build.

So I figure the solo build would be direct damage with direct healing, obviously focussing on self, blasting enemies and keeping self alive.

RVR group/keep defending would be Direct damage and AOE to blast em from a distance, then help your group or hurt many enemies around you when up close.

Instance/Public Quest would be the remaining combo - Direct healing (of tank) with AOE to clean up swarms quickly or help the whole group at once with heals/auras.

(I use the term auras to indicate a persistant buff that applies to group members within X amount range of your char).

Obviously, as you know from masteries, that the archmage can do all of this, these will just be the areas that he can further enhance.

I just don't feel that a whole mastery to buffs/debuffs will be worth focussing on as its own tree, you will struggle to kill, and struggle to keep yourself alive. With the sorceress' masteries, all 3 looked appealing and had their use, direct damage, dots, and aoe damage. Obviously mixtures of masteries have great value, but even a single focus was made to look fun and worthwhile. But a whole mastery dedicated to buffs/debuffs would seem extremely boring imo, neither focussing on damaging nor healing, hardly having a noticeable effect at all. Yes, sometimes a few extra stats might make the difference, but its hard to tell, and not as fun as actually doing noticeable actions like healing and nuking. Even if the buffs/debuffs mastery is strategically great, it would be hard to make it seem fun, the whole point of the game. Thats why I have suggested having buffs spread out and matching what their role is within the damage, healing and aoe masteries.

[SeDevri]

hmmm, well looking at all this from purely a TT version of the game we see that the High Elf mages can master ALL the different schools of magic. This is something NO other race in the game is able to do. So i think something of that bit of game mechanics and lore should be used in WAR. how about this?

School of High magic: This school would focus and the ability to Debuff/drain magic, as well as heal spells as that is one how the High magic works in the TT game.

School of ...

School of ...


...forgive me it's 5am here and i haven't slept yet, and as such have forgotten what i was going to say.:confused: i shall be back with the conclusion to this post asap. in the mean time feel free to pick up where i left off.

[ChosenOne]

hmmm, well looking at all this from purely a TT version of the game we see that the High Elf mages can master ALL the different schools of magic. This is something NO other race in the game is able to do. So i think something of that bit of game mechanics and lore should be used in WAR. how about this?

School of High magic: This school would focus and the ability to Debuff/drain magic, as well as heal spells as that is one how the High magic works in the TT game.

School of ...

School of ...


...forgive me it's 5am here and i haven't slept yet, and as such have forgotten what i was going to say.:confused: i shall be back with the conclusion to this post asap. in the mean time feel free to pick up where i left off.

Um, there is like 8 different winds of magic. Were you going to suggest they have 8 different schools (paths) ?

[Gemini]

Also, high magic isn't a single wind, but all the winds together in unison. And your not quite right, the Dark Elves use all 8 winds too, just in a much less graceful way.

[wellsy]

However, Gemini, the High Elves have access to all of the basic lores of Warhammer, whereas the Dark Elves only get the Lore of Shadows and the Lore of Death. Both get their variants of combination (HE - High Magic, DE - Dark Magic).

However, I do agree that there can't be nine paths (one for each basic lore, plus High Magic). Not only might that steal some of the uniqueness of the Bright Wizard (Lore of Fire), but it would also be far too difficult to pull off.

Certainly, however, a mixing of the lores of Life, Heavens, High Magic, Light, Metals (hey, you're a tank? I make your armour hurt you!) in such a way as to increase the ability to support a group in a particular way (by DPS, buffs/debuffs, and by healing, all of which are very evenly distributed across these lores).

And the reason why I picked those lores is that they are the most befitting to the High Elves, and generally the most useful too, while not encroaching on Bright Wizard territory.

[SeDevri]

Ah yes the DEs do get them all i had forgotten that. Well i wasn't suggesting that they get all 8 of the schools, but use the masteries to represent that they somehow have a much broader spectrum of learning than the other races in the game, you see what i'm saying? I think this could be a very attractive aspect to the Archmage.

[ChosenOne]

However, Gemini, the High Elves have access to all of the basic lores of Warhammer, whereas the Dark Elves only get the Lore of Shadows and the Lore of Death. Both get their variants of combination (HE - High Magic, DE - Dark Magic).

However, I do agree that there can't be nine paths (one for each basic lore, plus High Magic). Not only might that steal some of the uniqueness of the Bright Wizard (Lore of Fire), but it would also be far too difficult to pull off.

Certainly, however, a mixing of the lores of Life, Heavens, High Magic, Light, Metals (hey, you're a tank? I make your armour hurt you!) in such a way as to increase the ability to support a group in a particular way (by DPS, buffs/debuffs, and by healing, all of which are very evenly distributed across these lores).

And the reason why I picked those lores is that they are the most befitting to the High Elves, and generally the most useful too, while not encroaching on Bright Wizard territory.

Why not just make individual spells in the paths that each represent a certain path?

[wellsy]

Why not just make individual spells in the paths that each represent a certain path?

So essentially damage dealing spells go in a damage spec (ie magic missiles), buffs and debuffs go in a buff and debuff spec, and healing spells (there is only one in the TT game) go in a healing spec?

That is probably how it's going to work, given the precedent other classes have set.

[SeDevri]

So essentially damage dealing spells go in a damage spec (ie magic missiles), buffs and debuffs go in a buff and debuff spec, and healing spells (there is only one in the TT game) go in a healing spec?

That is probably how it's going to work, given the precedent other classes have set.

I'd just like to point out the the HF classes don't really seem to follow the same cookie cutter layout of most of the other class, so the masteries might actually surprise us, you never know.

[ChosenOne]

So essentially damage dealing spells go in a damage spec (ie magic missiles), buffs and debuffs go in a buff and debuff spec, and healing spells (there is only one in the TT game) go in a healing spec?

That is probably how it's going to work, given the precedent other classes have set.

Well I dont know, but its quite possible.

[wellsy]

I'd just like to point out the the HF classes don't really seem to follow the same cookie cutter layout of most of the other class, so the masteries might actually surprise us, you never know.

Which is, of course, why I said probably.

I'm waiting for the googley.