The Armament of the Disciples

[Ethandril]

In favor of polls, which choice of armament do you take for your Disciple?

As stated on EA Mythic (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/DarkElves/Careers/Disciple.php), the Disciples has, at least, 2 choices:


Wields twin ritual blades,
or carries a single blade and ritual chalice

I assume, wielding two ritual blades will increase your melee DPS and the ritual chalice
could increase your healing abilities, but which one do you prefer?

And will we be able to master both combat styles or just one? Or do we get the option
of dual wielding at a higher rank?

My guess:
I hope dual wielding is an ability, which every Disciple gets and doesn't have to purchase.
This way I can decide on the situation, what I use, my seconed blade or the chalice.

Note: I haven't list this 3rd option, just because it's speculation and the quote only says
dual wielding or blade & chalice


Let's start the speculation :D

[damsel]

Chalice just seems impractical and honestly reminds me of a vampire look, really don't like the chalice


The twine ritual blades though are awesom. Only thing I wish is that could use a big 2h sword, so I could RP a member of a special cast of executioners who uses dark magic to heal.

edit: I hope the weapon choice set-up does in no way shape or form affect your DPS or ability to heal, I hate the chalice, and if I do roll a Disciple I will loathe having to use a chalice (as with my support characters I prefer a more healing based approach (with just enough DPS to maximize said ability) which means I have a balance play style)

[teh_perfesser]

The chalice will probably be how I decide whether or not the Disciple in my group is a healer or a wasted group spot...

[Tastreth]

I'm hoping that those two combos will each effect a different type of healing and damage, rather than one being +heals and one being +damage.

Visually, I like the Chalice and blade combo, so I'll vote for that.

[Dregash]

i plan on healing but i dislike the whole cup thing.... i plan on useing twin blades most of the time and a cup when im forced too ... if i could carry a book in stead that would be a whole new ball game

[Thorens]

The chalice will probably be how I decide whether or not the Disciple in my group is a healer or a wasted group spot...

We don't even know for certain what the chalice does/ is, and we don't know if more dps = more healing so please don't make uninformed comments.;) (unless you know something we don't know)

P.S. I like the chalice better visually, but I would use twin blades.

[Xxpect]

From the looks of the chalices I've seen, they look like they could be used as a weapon itself and may not have any other function other than giving you a career specific offhand weapon. http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CT1207_43.jpg

Personally I like the look of twin daggers over the chalice so unless the chalice gives some other benefit, I'll probably stick with twin daggers.

[Creazil]

Those are chalices? thought were maces and polearms...

[mongoose]

If the "chalice" actually functions as a mace like weapon (as it appears in some of the other pics with a longer handle) Im all for it.

[Ethandril]

From the looks of the chalices I've seen, they look like they could be used as a weapon itself and may not have any other function other than giving you a career specific offhand weapon. ...

This would be the 4th option, I'm all for it, if the Chalice could be used as a weapon too.

[Creazil]

I think everyone is forgetting dual chalices ;)

[i fart rainbows]

If the "chalice" actually functions as a mace like weapon (as it appears in some of the other pics with a longer handle) Im all for it.

Same. Also it's quite possible that there are both 1h and 2h chalices judging by the concept art.

Most likely it's the case after seeing those pics so yeah for that. Also, I can imagine the chalice will eventually be used by all the top end disciples since it's most likely your improvements to drains and heals ect will come via stats on the chalice.

Also dual chalice would be pretty cool if they looked enough like maces. However, if you can get some melee blades with spell stats I'd prefer that the most.

[teh_perfesser]

We don't even know for certain what the chalice does/ is, and we don't know if more dps = more healing so please don't make uninformed comments.;) (unless you know something we don't know)Nah, I'm speculating that the chalice gives healing benefits while a second dagger gives poking benefits, which seems to make sense.

I'd definately play a Disciple with two daggers, but mostly because the animations will probably look better. Mind you, I like the sound of the idea for wielding two chalices--but that's more of a Saturday night thing ;).

(P.S.: If these are chalices... (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CT1207_43.jpg) *drool*)

[Tastreth]

(P.S.: If these are chalices... (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CT1207_43.jpg) *drool*)


Uh, yeah. I'm quite sure they are, considering they're the only weapon concept art we've seen for disciples.

[Dregash]

Nah, I'm speculating that the chalice gives healing benefits while a second dagger gives poking benefits, which seems to make sense.

I'd definately play a Disciple with two daggers, but mostly because the animations will probably look better. Mind you, I like the sound of the idea for wielding two chalices--but that's more of a Saturday night thing ;).

(P.S.: If these are chalices... (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CT1207_43.jpg) *drool*)

im pretty sure they will dual weild swords not daggers as I have seen swords in many places but have not seen a thing about daggers

[ravn0s]

What I want to know is why there is a long and short version of each of the chalices. Does it have an impact on gameplay or is it just a graphical thing?

[Ethandril]

What I want to know is why there is a long and short version of each of the chalices. Does it have an impact on gameplay or is it just a graphical thing?

Hm, good question, I can only guess about it, maybe the long haft is a 2-handed chalice
and can be used as a weapon too, while the short version is used to increase your
healing abilities.

[Ayetalam]

I think they can both be used as weapons, but one is like a 2 handed one, or a 1 handed sword. While the other acts like a dagger. For different playstyles.

I think they might be classified as Axes though. So a Long and Short axe. Or 2h axe and 1h axe.

Im not sure the chalices will be made to hinder DPS. Their stats might lean more to one spec, but I think they will be standardized to make it not lose DPS.

So if Its the way I think it is, then I will most likely either play dual wield swords or long axes.

If its not, then 2 swords is how imma go. Ive never been a fan of daggers.

[Xxpect]

From the official description:

Wields twin ritual blades, or carries a single blade and ritual chalice

I don't think two-handers are going to be an option, but "blades" could be swords or daggers.

[teh_perfesser]

im pretty sure they will dual weild swords not daggers as I have seen swords in many places but have not seen a thing about daggersYou almost had me! :p I went back to check the concept art (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/conceptArt/), mostly swords.

Female with dagger (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CT1207_29.jpg) and Male with dagger (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/conceptArt/CT1207_29.jpg) (actually it is a 'knife' since it is single edged... but that's not significant)

That would be a lot of weapon choices if the chalice is a weapon. Shamans, Archmages and Runepriests get staves only, Zealots are daggers only, Warrior Priests 1-handed and 2-handed hammers and Disciples get swords, daggers and chalices... I'm not sure if that works balance-wise (i.e.: only career to get multiple melee damage types).

[Tastreth]

That would be a lot of weapon choices if the chalice is a weapon. Shamans, Archmages and Runepriests get staves only, Zealots are daggers only, Warrior Priests 1-handed and 2-handed hammers and Disciples get swords, daggers and chalices... I'm not sure if that works balance-wise (i.e.: only career to get multiple melee damage types).


I wouldn't call that multiple damage types . . . so far as we know, it'll all just be lumped as "physical" damage. It really just means more cosmetic choice in regard to weapons. Not entirely fair to some other support careers, but hey, life's not fair.


p.s. If someone rolls a WP intending to use something other than a hammer, he should be burned.

[Ethandril]

Some games differentiate between 3 types of damage and therefore 3 different weapons.


Slashing
Piercing
Crushing


Each causes physical damage, but has different effects on the target or is best used
against different armor-types (I think it was so in DAoC).

and of course each could be 1-handed or 2-handed.

Back to topic and what type of weapon the Disciple could use:

Since the Disciple is "real" melee-healer he could have more choises of weapons than
the other Supporters, but if they get access to all of them, I don't know.
Imaginable, definitively! Possible? Only if Mythic let us.

[teh_perfesser]

(I think it was so in DAoC).It was. Further more, crushing was better against plate, piercing was batter against chain and slash was batter against leather / scale (or something like that).

Each realm had a 'favoured' (slightly better) damage type and a different armor type for it's tanks... so Midgard had an advantage on Hibernia who had an advantage on Albion, who in turn had an advantage on Midgard (it's been a long time, so I might not have that right).

It was a complicated bit of flavour. That I don't feel made a significant difference...

P.S.: I'm also beginning to think that chalices are actually slashing weapons judging by the 'blades' on the top, which make more sense than crushers (i.e.: cutting makes for more bleeding than smashing)... and if those daggers really are knives, knives are slashers too... So maybe Disciples are all slash?

[Xxpect]

Based on the concept art, I would have to guess that all the weapons a Disciple can wield are of the slashing variety. All the swords and knives appear to be single edged which usually means it is is meant for slashing not piercing or thrusting. And the Chalices are obviously not meant for piercing (unless you used the opposite end from the cup) and I doubt they would put those sharp looking blades on the sides if they were meant to be crushing weapons. Of course, the chalices may not even be a weapon and might have some other purpose. Also, physical damage types might not even come into play in WAR.

[teh_perfesser]

Also, physical damage types might not even come into play in WAR.I'm betting they won't. The mechanic didn't seem to serve a purpose in DAOC other than to add a little colour and to give realms slight advantages and disadvantages.

There are roleplay and iconographic motivations with weapon choices--there is no reason a Warrior Priest shouldn't be able to use a mace, other than lore and the need to create easily "identifible-ness".


It's a loot matter that should most cause concern.

Let's take an example group of Chosen, Witch Elf, Choppa, Disciple, Zealot and Magus. That's a pretty good group for a dungeon crawl. If a staff drops it is pretty obvious that the Magus gets it, if a chalice drops, that's a happy Disciple. One-handed axe drops and the Chosen and Choppa roll for it.

But what happens when a dagger drops? That's going to be at least a three way roll between Disciple, Zealot and Witch Elf. If that's a high damage dagger, the Zealot will/should probably drop out--but the Disciple probably won't conceed (because melee damage is a big part of the Disciple's game), the Witch Elf will think the Disciple should conceed (because Disciples are "healers" and don't need the damage as much)... now we have conflict.

The conflict is greater between the Witch Elf and Disciple because they have very different opinions of what the Disciple is; we don't get as charged a conflict between the Chosen and Choppa with the axe because, unless they are really idiotic, they understand damage is equally or nearly equally important to both.

A variety of weapons is both a boon and a bane. It can create the "HUNTAR LEWT" syndrome. In WoW, the Hunter class had the widest variety of weapon options available, so they could / would roll for the largest number of drops--this lead to resentment among other classes, especially Rogues who benefited from the same stats as Hunters. Even among the most elite raiding guilds of the most knowledgable players, the "HUNTAR LEWT" syndrome existed (in the guild I was in, I'd estimate this caused 50% of the guild drama, would have been more if the issue wasn't managed constantly).

If I decide to play a Disciple, the career is on my short list, I'll just do two-handed chalices and avoid the inevitable disagreements.

[ravn0s]

But what happens when a dagger drops? That's going to be at least a three way roll between Disciple, Zealot and Witch Elf. If that's a high damage dagger, the Zealot will/should probably drop out--but the Disciple probably won't conceed (because melee damage is a big part of the Disciple's game), the Witch Elf will think the Disciple should conceed (because Disciples are "healers" and don't need the damage as much)... now we have conflict.

Didn't Mythic say that all the armour and weapon drops were career specific and rolling would only be necessary if there was more than 1 of any class in the group? Taking your group example, say if a dagger drops and it is called "Witch Elf Dagger", there would be no need for rolling because no other classes can use a Witch Elf dagger other than a Witch Elf, so Witch Elf automatically gets it. But if the With Elf dagger dropped and there is 2 Witch Elf's in the group, they would both have to roll for the weapon.

[Ethandril]

Didn't Mythic say that all the armour and weapon drops were career specific and rolling would only be necessary if there was more than 1 of any class in the group? Taking your group example, say if a dagger drops and it is called "Witch Elf Dagger", there would be no need for rolling because no other classes can use a Witch Elf dagger other than a Witch Elf, so Witch Elf automatically gets it. But if the With Elf dagger dropped and there is 2 Witch Elf's in the group, they would both have to roll for the weapon.

I don't think they would roll for it, they would fight for the Dagger! ;) Anyways, I also
read/heard somewhere, that loot will be class-specific.

[teh_perfesser]

I had not read that, but that is music to my ears.

I was going to offer a list of suggestions, including class-specific loot, on how to avoid the drama but it was getting a bit late for me to stay coherent :razz:.

[ChosenOne]

Everything we have seen thusfar has been that loot is class specific. We havnt seen much if anything showing loot that isnt specific in that manner.

Yeah some of the items might technically be able to be used by more then one class but who cares? Each class has items that can drop off of a mob so this will definatley limit the amount of time spent in figuring out who gets something. So much time can be wasted by such. This way we get back to what we are really paying for.

[Nightz]

The chalice will probably be how I decide whether or not the Disciple in my group is a healer or a wasted group spot...

I don't see you wanting to roll a support class

[teh_perfesser]

I don't see you wanting to roll a support classI'm primarily a support class player in PvE games but I tend to play damage classes for PvP. I played an Enchanter in EQ and a Defiler and Mystic in EQII where it's mostly PvE play, but in DAOC I played a 'Zerker and I was a Hunter in WoW.

I naturally gravitate towards classes that can take control of a situation and have a higher level of responsibility while not being too dependant on other players (i.e.: tanks are too dependent on healers for my liking). I like to be able to keep a group alive against overwhelming odds or dealing with unexpected adds and snatching victory from defeat.

Even with my Hunter, although I started the character with the intent of PvP'ing mostly, my game evolved into that of the server-leading guild's raid puller which was a role with incredible responsibility.

So, and we're way off topic here now by the way, I probably will roll a support class, Zealot or Disciple, and challange myself with taking responsibility and situational control in an RvR setting.

I just don't have the time or patience to deal with tanks who can't tank, casters who try to tank or healers who won't heal. There are plenty, probably 9 or 10, careers that will probably be better offensively than Disciples--a Disciple who doesn't put healing and support before damage is just a really bad Witch Elf wannabe.

In my opinion ;).

[Akela]

Look like a lot of people want a Drizzt. Not sure if I can blame them, but not in the form of disciple.

[Creazil]

Please no disciple drizzts =( besides drizzt had no magic and didn't heal >:[

[Ethandril]

The option to wield two ritual blades instead of a single blade and the chalice could be
connected with the Career Mastery of the Disciple. Therfor you have to train your
Disciple to use a 2nd blade and if so, you can master it and get special melee/heal abilities.

I hope it doesn't, but it's a possiblity. I would rather see, that you get the ability at a
certain rank without any mastery, so you can decide what you gonna use in a battle.
More offensive for small fights to rise the overall DPS or more defensive for large scale battles,
where your healing abilities are more needed.

[Ayetalam]

The option to wield two ritual blades instead of a single blade and the chalice could be
connected with the Career Mastery of the Disciple. Therfor you have to train your
Disciple to use a 2nd blade and if so, you can master it and get special melee/heal abilities.

I hope it doesn't, but it's a possiblity. I would rather see, that you get the ability at a
certain rank without any mastery, so you can decide what you gonna use in a battle.
More offensive for small fights to rise the overall DPS or more defensive for large scale battles,
where your healing abilities are more needed.

From information I have seen, and a few other sources that were posted on this forum at one point. You start out dual wielding at Rank 1. No need to do anything, just equip a second sword.

[Ethandril]

From information I have seen, and a few other sources that were posted on this forum at one point. You start out dual wielding at Rank 1. No need to do anything, just equip a second sword.

Good news, if we get this ability at rank 1, it leads me more and more to the impression,
that the Chalice could give you a +healing instead of +melee when you wield a 2nd
ritual blade.

[Serek]

chalice-flask for the win.

Being serious though I speculate that the chalice will in fact be a weapon as well that will give an improvement to your lifetaping/transfering health. So at least in my case if I am correct I would probably be wielding 2 blades while soloing and a chalice and a blade for any groups.

[RockpapperWaagh]

nver even thought of drizzit or however you spell his name when i voted

i just dont like the look of the chalices honestly.

Then again riddick did kill that guy with his tea cup..... hmmmm

[Dranex]

What I want to know is why there is a long and short version of each of the chalices. Does it have an impact on gameplay or is it just a graphical thing?

when i looked at them..it looksl ike you pair the little ones like this

little chalice/little dagger
longer chalice/blade
blade/blade
dagger/dagger
little chalice/little chalice
longer chalice/longer chalice

now that sounds like alot of different weapon choices..
and if your like where the did you get the idea of dagger...go look at the disciple concept art...find the disciple in red spikey armor..and look in its hand...(dagger)

now i do see the chalice just being a player choice...but maybe its a mechanic choice...
since they just need blood to heal and so on...but the chalice looks like it holds blood..so maybe it just builds your disciple skills charge up(your special bar) unlike using 2 blades which builds slower...but thats just my take on it

[Navras]

From the beta journal:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/betajournal/jjournal03.jpg

Hell ye! Dual wield disciple ftw!

[damsel]

Please no disciple drizzts =( besides drizzt had no magic and didn't heal >:[

There is going to be a small army of Drizzts

and malus wannabe's as well

From the beta journal:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/betajournal/jjournal03.jpg

Hell ye! Dual wield disciple ftw!

Not exactly sure that is a disciple.....considering the T1 concept art looks nothing like that, and he seems to lack your belove "Brass" eyes nor the white hair they all seem to have....or the anemic skin they also seem to have.

chalice-flask for the win.

Being serious though I speculate that the chalice will in fact be a weapon as well that will give an improvement to your lifetaping/transfering health. So at least in my case if I am correct I would probably be wielding 2 blades while soloing and a chalice and a blade for any groups.

Something I really hope they avoid, since I personally can't stand the Cups-of-doom
(they are seriously impractical). I just hope it is a different variation of weapon. Otherwise I couldn't stomach playing a disciple, especially if it is better for support purposes.

[Ayetalam]

Not exactly sure that is a disciple.....considering the T1 concept art looks nothing like that, and he seems to lack your belove "Brass" eyes nor the white hair they all seem to have....or the anemic skin they also seem to have.


Well I bet it is. Just because it doesn't look like the concept are doesn't mean they cant be. There is always random world look drop. The teir sets you see in concept are are most likely actual sets that you get from PQs and such.

The hair, no one said it had to be white, they probably just used it as a base. Or it could whiten over time.

Same with the eyes. they could start as just a golden pupil, hten as you rank up go to full brass eyes.

It could be the classes physical progression as they level.

[damsel]

Well I bet it is. Just because it doesn't look like the concept are doesn't mean they cant be. There is always random world look drop. The teir sets you see in concept are are most likely actual sets that you get from PQs and such.

The hair, no one said it had to be white, they probably just used it as a base. Or it could whiten over time.

Same with the eyes. they could start as just a golden pupil, hten as you rank up go to full brass eyes.

It could be the classes physical progression as they level.

If their eyes were not brass they wouldn't be a Disciple of Khaine but rather a Assasin..that is if you go with the lore on the main page.


Eyes can not be progression, skin and hair...that is true. But the entire look doesn't scream DoK, which with the WYSIWYG philosophy, probably means it isn't a disciple of khaine. not to mention the cloth/leather armor against the seemingly normal metallic armor of the DoK.

it is most likely a random NPc fighting to other random NPCs

If it is a disciple, their apperence is even more generic Drizzt/Elf Rogue Look than I ever thought they would do.

[Tastreth]

Yeah . . . I really hope that wasn't a Disciple. If it was . . . :(

[Ayetalam]

If their eyes were not brass they wouldn't be a Disciple of Khaine but rather a Assasin..that is if you go with the lore on the main page.


Eyes can not be progression, skin and hair...that is true. But the entire look doesn't scream DoK, which with the WYSIWYG philosophy, probably means it isn't a disciple of khaine. not to mention the cloth/leather armor against the seemingly normal metallic armor of the DoK.

it is most likely a random NPc fighting to other random NPCs

If it is a disciple, their apperence is even more generic Drizzt/Elf Rogue Look than I ever thought they would do.

Actually in the first few concept arts, the armor is leather/cloth/mail mix. The eyes could be Brass in theh pupil and expand as his power grows. No one ever said that the Entire Eye had to be brass. It could be progressive. Also, the hair can have color. Just because they used White, doesnt mean tehy can't have black like all other druchii. I stick by it being a disciple, especially after that footage we saw once showing DoK gameplay, and it looke exactly like that.

Also you forget that the Elf areas aren't polished graphic wise, so they might look like crap still

[Tastreth]

Also you forget that the Elf areas aren't polished graphic wise, so they might look like crap still


That's true . . . still, I hope they they capture the leather look of the armor a little better.

[Ayetalam]

That's true . . . still, I hope they they capture the leather look of the armor a little better.

Ya i guess. There is a bit of footage of the DoK ingame next to a Sorceress in the VotM. The disciple has black hair, no brass eyes, and is wearing mostly mail/leather armor. holding 2 swords.

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/flash/2008-01_VotM.html about 50ish seconds it. Shes next to the Sorceress.

Here is a screenshot of the next seen, a bit more clear since its not interlaced since its the first frame of the scene.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9519/rawrssl3.jpg

[damsel]

Ya i guess. There is a bit of footage of the DoK ingame next to a Sorceress in the VotM. The disciple has black hair, no brass eyes, and is wearing mostly mail/leather armor. holding 2 swords.

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/flash/2008-01_VotM.html about 50ish seconds it. Shes next to the Sorceress.

Here is a screenshot of the next seen, a bit more clear since its not interlaced since its the first frame of the scene.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9519/rawrssl3.jpg

When they made such a big to do over the eye color, I was wondering if they would be able to make it noticeable at range to even matter.

I have a weird feeling that they are going to need some serious glow on the eyes to make it even noticable that there eyes are brass, and that may be a kick in the teeth to the hooked on thing that is unique to the DoK, without the eyes they honestly look like weirdly dressed Black guard.

[Ayetalam]

When they made such a big to do over the eye color, I was wondering if they would be able to make it noticeable at range to even matter.

I have a weird feeling that they are going to need some serious glow on the eyes to make it even noticable that there eyes are brass, and that may be a kick in the teeth to the hooked on thing that is unique to the DoK, without the eyes they honestly look like weirdly dressed Black guard.

Ya i know what you mean. I really want the brass eyes. or at least some brass colored glow from their eyes. But it could be that the extra tiny detaisl will be worked in later. After all, they don't need flashy details to test game mechanics. So it could come in the future. Just not really needed for testing atm.

[damsel]

Ya i know what you mean. I really want the brass eyes. or at least some brass colored glow from their eyes. But it could be that the extra tiny detaisl will be worked in later. After all, they don't need flashy details to test game mechanics. So it could come in the future. Just not really needed for testing atm.

I am speaking from finished game experinces, eye color is just one of those things that is really hard to portray in a noticable manner without giving it a really heavy glow effect ala night elfs and blood elfs from WoW

Otherwise most characters eyes look.....well they are there, they probably have a color, you just can't tell until you are on top of them

edit: and by on top of them I mean, they are not moving and you are zoomed in perfectly on their face.....

[Ayetalam]

I am speaking from finished game experinces, eye color is just one of those things that is really hard to portray in a noticable manner without giving it a really heavy glow effect ala night elfs and blood elfs from WoW

Otherwise most characters eyes look.....well they are there, they probably have a color, you just can't tell until you are on top of them

edit: and by on top of them I mean, they are not moving and you are zoomed in perfectly on their face.....

Ya, I agree with you. I dunno how good glowing eyes will be, but if they want to make it a feature that stands out. They need to make them glow. Maybe they can make them glow stronger over levels. Like start out with just brass pupils, then by rank 25ish have entire brass eyes, and then at rank 40 full glowing brass eyes. It will be more tasteful and better looking in the long run. You can tell the level of a Disciple just by the glow.

[Creazil]

I wanna glow now =(

[Lord Tareq]

They could turn the brass colour a bit lighter, so its more golden. That would probably be more noticable at a short distance, without it being over the top like glowing eyes.

[damsel]

Ya, I agree with you. I dunno how good glowing eyes will be, but if they want to make it a feature that stands out. They need to make them glow. Maybe they can make them glow stronger over levels. Like start out with just brass pupils, then by rank 25ish have entire brass eyes, and then at rank 40 full glowing brass eyes. It will be more tasteful and better looking in the long run. You can tell the level of a Disciple just by the glow.

Would eye color really change?

Shouldn't, according to their "lore" on WARs offical site, claim their eyes are brass from their emergence in the cauldron.

So would a progression of eye "glow" really make much sense, and even would it be aesthetically pleasing?

It would work with the alien look of Elfs in general, but I am unsure if it would be very warhammery.


The issue though with the glow is, that from mythics own design philosophy that we were given of WYSIWYG from 20+ in game yards (i think it may be more) (lately, previous information seems subject to change though...)

This glow would have to be something over and beyond subtle, and well into the range of Eye beams of doom.


pew pew DoK pew pew...

Actually in the first few concept arts, the armor is leather/cloth/mail mix. The eyes could be Brass in theh pupil and expand as his power grows. No one ever said that the Entire Eye had to be brass. It could be progressive. Also, the hair can have color. Just because they used White, doesnt mean tehy can't have black like all other druchii. I stick by it being a disciple, especially after that footage we saw once showing DoK gameplay, and it looke exactly like that.

Also you forget that the Elf areas aren't polished graphic wise, so they might look like crap still

the armor on the orcs has stayed very much similiar to earlier iterations from before

I am sorry, even if those are called DoK, they look like a shade/assasin, and a shade/assasin by any other name is still a shade/assasin....

and for concept art:

EVERY ONE has white hair and paler skin than other dark elfs, if this is not visible in game, then the DoK represents the worst transition from concept to in game that there has been

All tier concept art: here (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/DarkElves/Careers/Disciple.php)

I will be really disappointed if they "iconic" look they have worked to make with the disciple is thrown in the proverbial gutter in order to make the DoK look more like an assassin/shade in order to draw more players.

As for tier 1 concept art, but I am sorry, this armor looks nothing like that pic, indeed this armor still seems metallic w/ Cloth to me, not much "leather"

tier 1 concept art: here (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/careers/Dspl_01.jpg)

Just like to summarize by saying (since the newsletter did verify that as a Disciple) I am very disappointed with the concept to game implication of the Disciple, it seems some of the most obvious things about them (white hair, metal w/ robes armor, Brass eyes, pale skin) made it into the in-game version.

[Ayetalam]

Just like to summarize by saying (since the newsletter did verify that as a Disciple) I am very disappointed with the concept to game implication of the Disciple, it seems some of the most obvious things about them (white hair, metal w/ robes armor, Brass eyes, pale skin) made it into the in-game version.

But then again, it could be just for testing. Maybe they dindt spend the time to make different shades of hair and used the base model they already had to make it. Its 5 months before release. They can easily go in change 3 rgb values and get white. I think their priorities are to test Gameplay atm.

As for the armor, it could be just random world drop armor. The sets in the concept art are actual name sets. While the one shown can be just random world armor they got. Of course random world armor will not look like the concept sets, since they aren't sets.

Looking through the concept art. It seems that DoK loses hair as he ranks up, to a compete bald look. Not sure if thats just for the concepts showing off different hair styles, or its the actual progression. Also the Eyes seem to go from a light goldish color to a Darker brass over the concept arts. If you look at the last teir. The brass isnt that visible.

[Speedy]

Responding to the poll's choices, I have to go with one-handed weapon and chalice. First of all, the chalice looks damn bad-, at least to me, and second, I think it would be a buff to the soul eating/sacrificing part of their healing/dpsing spells.

To me, it is like how in Warcraft III the Paladins had the hammer in one hand, and the tome in another; just is symbolic to the class.

[Xyphos]

If I make a disciple, since Khaine is a close to Khorne as I'm going to get in WAR...

Anyway, If I make a disciple, I'd want to do my job as a healer/supporter the best I could, so in order to do that I'd say for a GROUP I'd probably use the chalice. There has to be a reason it's in game, and my assumption is like most people that it will have some kind of +to Lifesteal/healing/lifetap/etc. Granted, for solo PVP/PVE the Dual Dagger will probably work out better, but for a group PVE or PVP, Id be more concerned about doing my job of healing then dealing out damage.

edit: I suppose I should clarify that I am aware we need to deal damage in order to heal, but the point I am trying to make is that my primary concern will be healing.

[Reiden]

Aesthetically I would choose the twin blades however, with the way I see myself playing this class, I plan to take a focused support role and only involving myself in the melee as needed thus leading me to believe a chalice will be much more beneficial to my chosen role. While the actual effects of the second blade or the chalice are not exactly known, it does seem reasonable to assume the the blade will have some impact on dps or your effectiveness in melee where as the chalice would lead me to believe it will increase your magical abilities, be it life taps, dots, heals, or what else you may be chanting.

[Mondo]

I'm pretty sure there are some abilities you can only do with the chalice in your offhand and probably some abilities you can only do with dual warblades

[Dregash]

I'm pretty sure there are some abilities you can only do with the chalice in your offhand and probably some abilities you can only do with dual warblades

sounds like there will be some weapon switching involved, if the assuming added healing/damage of a chalice stays on you hots and dots i will probably macro/mod it so i have my dual swords out for more dps/style (i dislike they chalice quite a bit). if not i guess i'll have to deal with it

[Futar Gallik]

ive always liked duel weilding classes in mmos but I will probably do a combination of both, just depends on what situation im in

[Silent Jayy]

or you can take my random complicated yet simple views xD

lowest dps, major healing-double chalices
ehhhh dps and better healing- sword and chalice
ehh dps and healing- chalice and dagger
med dps and med healing-sword and dagger
higher dps and lower healing-dagger and sword? hehe
highest dps and crap healing- dagger dagger :mrgreen:

[Llamazerker]

I wouldn't call that multiple damage types . . . so far as we know, it'll all just be lumped as "physical" damage. It really just means more cosmetic choice in regard to weapons. Not entirely fair to some other support careers, but hey, life's not fair.


p.s. If someone rolls a WP intending to use something other than a hammer, he should be burned.

the general rule that follows suit is that dual wield takes burst and gives a steady damage output, a two hander gives burst, and takes away steady damage. each of the type types has a fairly large impact on pve vs pvp. with one being the favorable choice from encounter to encounter.

part of this is becuse having two weapons multiplies the bonus you recieve from stats that are reflected in your swing, thus giving substantial increase in steady damage over time. this is also aggro friendly becuse your not wildy up and down in relationship to your dps. predictable aggro is safe aggro.

now two handed weapons work the opposite. becuse its a slow weapon swing that is not drawing so much from the bonus of stats it tends to be a big hit, then a long pause. critical hits and special only further this quality as they happen on or near the big swing. this results in wildy ranging aggro from your true dps and isn't pve friendly, but the burst can come as a suprise to your pvp opponent and kill him.

*edit* A good point for figuring out if we will have the ability to dual wield, and use 2 hander would be to see if the warrior preist can. i've heard someone say they could do both, but i've yet to see a disc with a two hander in game, or a wp using dual wield.

[Llamazerker]

just giving a quick look, those things are definitly made for some sort of hurt. first of all it almost looks like some of those are either 2 handers, with the others being one handers, or some just a wicked chalice, while the others are mace length. they also have the shape of an axe.

my guess is that they will be a weapon based on healing as well. i hope greatly for the ability to both dual weild, and use a two hander. but that hope i have is selfish and would also request disciples to be over powered.

[Xyphos]

just giving a quick look, those things are definitly made for some sort of hurt. first of all it almost looks like some of those are either 2 handers, with the others being one handers, or some just a wicked chalice, while the others are mace length. they also have the shape of an axe.

my guess is that they will be a weapon based on healing as well. i hope greatly for the ability to both dual weild, and use a two hander. but that hope i have is selfish and would also request disciples to be over powered.

I don't know about over powered.

If you look at the concept art of the Warrior Priests you see they can duel wield hammers, use a hammer and a shield, and use a 2 handed hammer. If they are any indication of what we can do, I'd say the only thing we won't have is the shields and instead have a chalice.

[Xxpect]

Maybe the Chalice will actually improve defense like a shield. Just a wild idea that popped into my head.

[Xyphos]

Maybe the Chalice will actually improve defense like a shield. Just a wild idea that popped into my head.

It's possible, but I'd personally be upset if that's the case.

[ChosenOne]

Well, I do believe disciples will have some activated heal over times that they can use. These basically work similiar to a shield in that a shield mitigates some damage but costs you damage due to using a one hander instead of two hander.

With the disciple you are using two weapons thus hitting more and doing more damage then the shield and one hander, plus the heal over times are then acting as that damage mitigater by healing some of the damage you take per second while you are continuing to do other things.

You could be casting a regular heal on yourself while the heal over time is still going.

[Shadowfane]

Now, I'll admit to not having read the whole thread, but has anyone stopped to think that maybe the chalice doesn't up your healing, but your drains? Now in theory, that might have the knock-on effect of improving the healing related to the drains, but its a thought...

[Lemures]

I'll be building my Disciple for high damage output more than healing and and buffing... So Twizin Bizades.

[Dunhill]

I voted dual wielding daggers. a DW healing class seems really interesting to me.

[Thoroar]

Wait.

Why couldn't the long, two handed chalices be for a "healing" spec? You know, kinda like a staff.

[Llamazerker]

Wait.

Why couldn't the long, two handed chalices be for a "healing" spec? You know, kinda like a staff.

i can see paul saying "and that would be dull!", i'm going with the idea that the chalice supports the energy gain for healing, and/or strength of life taps. i'd like it to be a weapon of sorts, but if its just to sit there and look pretty in our emo dark elf hands then i'll accept it. not everything can be wickedly cool ya know!

[Unforsaken]

The chalice will probably be how I decide whether or not the Disciple in my group is a healer or a wasted group spot...

How will people know if your a wasted group spot? I guess it will take longer to figure out, but I know your type. You'll have as much trouble getting a group as a poorly built DoK no matter what you play cause your an elitist and people tend to shun elitists simply because 99.9% of the time that player isnt even close to as good as they think they are.

Yer dime a dozen, and I can foresee that you one day will hopefully ostersize the wrong person, and end up wondering around by yourself simply because people can't stand you. I'll take a fun player over a a$$hole any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Elitists are a cancer to any group, and should be treated as such.

Like OMG Im so good at this game, and he is like so bad, just look at his spec, he isnt even 1337. get over yourself, this is a social game, and those that hate are more likly to be hated.

[Aenarin]

How will people know if your a wasted group spot? I guess it will take longer to figure out, but I know your type. You'll have as much trouble getting a group as a poorly built DoK no matter what you play cause your an elitist and people tend to shun elitists simply because 99.9% of the time that player isnt even close to as good as they think they are.

Yer dime a dozen, and I can foresee that you one day will hopefully ostersize the wrong person, and end up wondering around by yourself simply because people can't stand you. I'll take a fun player over a a$$hole any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Elitists are a cancer to any group, and should be treated as such.

Like OMG Im so good at this game, and he is like so bad, just look at his spec, he isnt even 1337. get over yourself, this is a social game, and those that hate are more likly to be hated.
QFT :cool: Anyway on the topic of the poll.

Me I think I'd go with the chalice and 1 hander mainly beacuse (And I don't know if anyone else discussed this or not BUT) perhaps the chalice improves your debuffs and casting ability (including heals) so therefore you'd still be doing some pretty uber damage, just not up front and getting bashed up so much. Good deal in my opinion.

[Syrak]

I'd be rocking dual swords unless the chalice truly does give a sufficient enough bonus to make it overly worthwhile to use.

In the end..part of the game is still Fashionhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. Gotta look like a bad arse.

[Yirrath]

My guess is they will make the chalice worth while rahter than just a fancy visual with a mediocre buff

[Llamazerker]

i don't think the chalice is used as a weapon at all. i think what was most recently said was that the chalice gives bonus to your healing/draining abilities, while using a weapon in the offhand would give you more damage.

[Action Bastard]

If what I think are chalices are in fact chalices, then they look bad . If I was going to go about killing folks and using their souls to help my friends, I think a spikey cup would come into play sooner rather than later. I like spikey cups, though they're not all that practical to drink from...

[Xxpect]

"It’s also a unique healing-type class in an MMO because of the fact that the Disciple can either use Chalices in their off-hand which grant bonuses, or dual-wield to increase Soul Reaping’s effectiveness. It’s really up to that particular player how they want to play the Disciple of Khaine in that regard."

http://war.curse.com/articles/details/8282/

[Bluucandi]

Chalice = bonuses sounds like the ideal choice for a DoK that plans to spec high in Ritual mastery, but to duel wield a couple blades is oh so tempting too.

[Llamazerker]

"It’s also a unique healing-type class in an MMO because of the fact that the Disciple can either use Chalices in their off-hand which grant bonuses, or dual-wield to increase Soul Reaping’s effectiveness. It’s really up to that particular player how they want to play the Disciple of Khaine in that regard."

http://war.curse.com/articles/details/8282/

so what we can do is fill up our essence, then switch to a chalice to make the most out of it.

[Crowing156]

I know someone might have said it already, but the Disiple is a SUPPORT class. This means that DPS is almost nothing endgame. It's like a shadow-speced priest in WoW. Almost no one invites them to the group. In this respect, the chalice is the best option (If it is used as a healing offhand and not a weapon, which would be cool).

On the other hand, two swords is probaly the best soloing option.

[Ayetalam]

I know someone might have said it already, but the Disiple is a SUPPORT class. This means that DPS is almost nothing endgame. It's like a shadow-speced priest in WoW. Almost no one invites them to the group. In this respect, the chalice is the best option (If it is used as a healing offhand and not a weapon, which would be cool).

On the other hand, two swords is probaly the best soloing option.

Umm it is said that all classes will be able to DPS well. Just the DPS classes will DPS the best and the most. So don't think just cause WoW's Support Class DPS specs sucked end game, WARs will too. From footage weve been exposed to, DoK are very offensive in nature, they HAVE to DPS in order to build up essence to heal, and also they are melee, so they will be in the thick of battle.

[Crowing156]

That wasn't really my point. My point was that the chalice was best because it helped your support ablites. I know Disiples have to DPS, but that shouldn't be the main focus. The main focus should be supporting the group.

[Syrak]

I know someone might have said it already, but the Disiple is a SUPPORT class. This means that DPS is almost nothing endgame. It's like a shadow-speced priest in WoW. Almost no one invites them to the group. In this respect, the chalice is the best option (If it is used as a healing offhand and not a weapon, which would be cool).

On the other hand, two swords is probaly the best soloing option.

Bad example. Shadow priests are actually very good in raid groups and actually extremely wanted. They are also very good in arena with certain setups.

[Crowing156]

My Bad, don't raid much. Then maybe im just in the mindset that certain classes have there jobs to do.

[Ayetalam]

That wasn't really my point. My point was that the chalice was best because it helped your support ablites. I know Disiples have to DPS, but that shouldn't be the main focus. The main focus should be supporting the group.

Yes but disicples wont be target healers as much as the other 2. They will be AOE Healers/Buffers. So they dont have to worry about managing who they heal, as long as they are within range of their group. Also going heal spec and a chalice might hurt your ability to gain essence as efficiently or use your many siphon/stattap skills. DoK and WP don't play like Paladins in the same way that WoW Paladins played. They will play more like a Rogue/Shadow Priest combination with medium armor.

[Nataraja]

I recall watching a YouTube video shot over a person's shoulder in Paris and the DoK would use the duel blades when harvesting soul essence and would swith to blade and chalice or even 2 handed chalice when casting with the essence and seemed to switch seemlessly on the fly.

No idea if that is how it will work, its just what I recall. So perhaps you use them both regardless or mastery but switch as needed to perform certain things?

Open Beta should answer a lot of these sorts of questions:D

[Ayetalam]

I recall watching a YouTube video shot over a person's shoulder in Paris and the DoK would use the duel blades when harvesting soul essence and would swith to blade and chalice or even 2 handed chalice when casting with the essence and seemed to switch seemlessly on the fly.

No idea if that is how it will work, its just what I recall. So perhaps you use them both regardless or mastery but switch as needed to perform certain things?

Open Beta should answer a lot of these sorts of questions:D

Actually I talked to someone that went to the Con and he said it was jus the animation, he didnt have a chalice equipped, it just happened that when he casted healing spells, it put a basic chalice in his hand. I think if you have a real chalice item in-hand, it will use that instead.

[Nataraja]

Here is the answer to the chalice questions, etc. : http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/29631

[Russano]

The chalice will probably be how I decide whether or not the Disciple in my group is a healer or a wasted group spot...



Agree 100%

[exx]

you use the duel blades to do damage and increase your little pool since damage is how you increase it...then you whip out the chalice to cast some spells...what makes you think you have to choose one or the other?

since chalice increases healing and sword increases dmg what other option of play is there besides both?

[Crowing156]

Most games won't allow you to switch equipment while in combat. If that does work however, I would totally do it.

[Kenjin]

Dual blades as in the sense of gettin essence faster and less likely to run out which keeps buff's and ok heals consistent

[Kenjin]

Even with the chalice its been stated that disciples wont have the best healin and will stricly be a off healer if i remb correctly so in a sense either will technically do less essence bigger heals or consistent full essence for never ending heals im goin with consistent imo just my personal thought that is all lol

[Miranger]

I would love to dw some swords but if the chalice means that much they can always turn it into the "wand of wow" and let u dw the swords or better yet the idol/totem/book as well :O