Heal/damage ratio of runepriest?

[RunicAnvil]

A little question for those of you possessing more wisdom. I understand that careers like shaman have to balance damage and healing to be effective. But from what i have gathered, runepriests don't have that kind of forced synergy with damage and healing spells.

Mythic has stated that no class is a healbot, but can runepriest be an effective "healer only" career? Seems to me that his healing power isn't tied to the amount of damage he does, so it would be possible to only heal.

Again, i'm a bit new to the war scene so it like an answer to my question if it is allowed to talk about this (NDA?)

[Daldek]

It seems to me that yes a Runepriest can play the Heal only role if he desires.

The catch is that the Runepriest is also meant to be a powerful combatant as well, and if hes not there fighting doing damage then your team is losing out on his ability. He can do both at the same time, heal and damage. Doing only half will be a sign of a bad player.

[Dagoth]

You could only heal, but all healer careers are supposed to heal when needed and DPS at every other moment.

If you only heal, you are just standing there doing nothing when you could be doing damage, and since there is no mana that needs to be saved for later there is no point in doing that.

[Dunhill]

What they could do to combat this is put cooldowns on all your heals, so if you blow all your heals, you would have about maybe 20 secs to pop some other abilites, ie nukes. But im not sure if that will be the case.

On the other hand, i know people that enjoy the healer only thing. They enjoy being the healbot. I do as well sometimes. I find it a challenge in of itself. Being a healbot isnt always an easy job.

A lot liked the idea of needing to balance dps with healing, but some may actually like healing only, and find dps a burden. In those cases, the Runepriest will be the class of choice.

The whole no-mana mechanic that is the wonderful world of AP will help with that too. So the healers arent wasting their 'mana' spamming nukes and having ppl yell at them :P

Oh yes, down the line, the runepriest will be a popular class.

[RunicAnvil]

Ok seems to me that between runes, heals and offensive abilities, a good rune priest with an eye for tactics and gameplay will seriously mess up opponents :p

[vehemoth]

Check out this post:
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=610702&postcount=8
"Runes" is a broad term. learnyouupgrasshopper.


Also, in regards to the Shaman.

When they perform basic offensive spels they generate 'Waaagh'. Waaagh is a store of energy that reduces the action point cost of their heals and larger offensive spells. They don't need to balance damage and healing to heal effectively. It is simply that their mechanic allows them to throw in damage withut sacrificing their ability to heal.

If you want to be a powerful healer on an any career of the healer archetype, max out the mastery path that benefits your healing the most. Note that sitting still in between heals isn't going to be a logical choice as you will waste 2/3 of your abilities. Increasing the potency of your heing yourself new healing abilities via Masterization is going to make it so you do not have to heal as much to get the same amount of healing. Now, that said, what better way to use your free time than tossing in some offense.

If you want to be teh uberhealer all of the healing careers will be equally capable. it all depends on how you want to do it.

[vehemoth]

You could only heal, but all healer careers are supposed to heal when needed and DPS at every other moment.

If you only heal, you are just standing there doing nothing when you could be doing damage, and since there is no mana that needs to be saved for later there is no point in doing that.

There are action points which must be used appopriately, but otherwise quoted for truth.

[Feralas]

When they perform basic offensive spels they generate 'Waaagh'. Waaagh is a store of energy that reduces the action point cost of their heals and larger offensive spells.
Unless you have someone breaking NDA to tell you about this, then last I heard, this was wrong. Waaaagh! doesn't reduce AP cost, it reduces the cast time of the heals. The heals would normally not heal for too much and cast for like 5-6 seconds. But with Waaaaagh! they became much shorter casts, say, 1-2 seconds.

There is a fairly legnthy post about the mechanic by a person who played Shaman at a release in the Shaman forums. I can't remember the name of the thread, but it's in there somewhere.

[Dunhill]

Unless you have someone breaking NDA to tell you about this, then last I heard, this was wrong. Waaaagh! doesn't reduce AP cost, it reduces the cast time of the heals. The heals would normally not heal for too much and cast for like 5-6 seconds. But with Waaaaagh! they became much shorter casts, say, 1-2 seconds.

There is a fairly legnthy post about the mechanic by a person who played Shaman at a release in the Shaman forums. I can't remember the name of the thread, but it's in there somewhere.

What he said.

And yeah i read that post too. That's what i gathered from it.

[ManiaCCC]

Unless you have someone breaking NDA to tell you about this, then last I heard, this was wrong. Waaaagh! doesn't reduce AP cost, it reduces the cast time of the heals. The heals would normally not heal for too much and cast for like 5-6 seconds. But with Waaaaagh! they became much shorter casts, say, 1-2 seconds.

There is a fairly legnthy post about the mechanic by a person who played Shaman at a release in the Shaman forums. I can't remember the name of the thread, but it's in there somewhere.

Last thing what i heared is that waaagh! is reducing casting time and AP cost as well.

[vehemoth]

It looks like we have an awful mess of hearsay regarding waaagh!. I couldnt locate any info on the matter :(

This thread has been jacked a bit. Back on track: Will Runepriest be able to be a pure healer without much penalty?

Yes, but you won't be making whoopie with your other abilities (survivability/defensive support or offensive/offensive support) near enough as you should.

[WMK01]

Playing a Runepriest as only a healer would be like buying a high performance sports car and replacing the engine with that of a VW bug. Viable? Sure, but you're missing out on 3/4ths of the greatness. Also, I'm sure not too many people would enjoy teaming up with a Runepriest that doesn't at least try to use all the tools at his disposal to help his team.

[Lucrece]

From what I've seen in videos and reviews, Runepriests have the lowest damage output of all classes; it's pretty discouraging.

[vehemoth]

I beleive that people's opinion of the Runepriest is going to change dramatically as they learn more and there are more resourceful players to talk to.

[Lucrece]

I beleive that people's opinion of the Runepriest is going to change dramatically as they learn more and there are more resourceful players to talk to.

Resourceful or not, unless they put in some changes, expect the Runepriest to be forced into a heal/buffbot drone; it doesn't pay much respect to the actual concept of the powerful Runepriest.

[RX_Odhinn]

Resourceful or not, unless they put in some changes, expect the Runepriest to be forced into a heal/buffbot drone; it doesn't pay much respect to the actual concept of the powerful Runepriest.

True beyond a shadow of a doubt. All evidence so far supports the fact that a RP's damage is going to be ignorable at best. With the power of the heals in this game and the amount of damage each class is capable of taking, our damage is just to easy to be shaken off. For that reason I don't expect anyone thats knowledgeable about the Runepriest to spec into his damage career mastery path, if one exists, seeing as the outcome would only make us as strong as a flat rate warrior priest. The ultimate outcome is for us to just become the healer/buffer/controller.

[Dunhill]

Playing a Runepriest as only a healer would be like buying a high performance sports car and replacing the engine with that of a VW bug. Viable? Sure, but you're missing out on 3/4ths of the greatness. Also, I'm sure not too many people would enjoy teaming up with a Runepriest that doesn't at least try to use all the tools at his disposal to help his team.

Im sorry, i just dont see it like that. The thing that makes absolutely sure the shaman, disciple, archmage, and warrior priest have to also dps is their healing is linked to their damage abilities. With runepriests and zealots, however, there is no link between our damage actions and our healing actions. We dont need to dps to effectively heal. When you say the Runepriest isnt using himself to his full effect if all hes doing is buffing and healing, well unless all his abilities are on some sort implemented cooldown and he has enough action points and a few seconds to wait for his next heal to come off of cooldown, then he can pop a nuke, otherwise he could very well be doing nothing but spamming his heals and buffs.

Add to that our little dps we can do coupled with the fact that everyone is still taking damage, a good runepriest will be best utilized doing nothing but healing and making sure his group remains buffed, alive, and topped off. He wouldnt even get a second to blow a global cooldown or casting time to do anything thats not a buff or heal.

Again, this all boils down to how the damage is not linked to the heals.

[Lucrece]

Im sorry, i just dont see it like that. The thing that makes absolutely sure the shaman, disciple, archmage, and warrior priest have to also dps is their healing is linked to their damage abilities. With runepriests and zealots, however, there is no link between our damage actions and our healing actions. We dont need to dps to effectively heal. When you say the Runepriest isnt using himself to his full effect if all hes doing is buffing and healing, well unless all his abilities are on some sort implemented cooldown and he has enough action points and a few seconds to wait for his next heal to come off of cooldown, then he can pop a nuke, otherwise he could very well be doing nothing but spamming his heals and buffs.

Add to that our little dps we can do coupled with the fact that everyone is still taking damage, a good runepriest will be best utilized doing nothing but healing and making sure his group remains buffed, alive, and topped off. He wouldnt even get a second to blow a global cooldown or casting time to do anything thats not a buff or heal.

Again, this all boils down to how the damage is not linked to the heals.

Which is a pity. So much for the claim that there will be no heal/buffbots in this game...

[RX_Odhinn]

Which is a pity. So much for the claim that there will be no heal/buffbots in this game...

I don't think a good runepriest will become one though either. Yes, we won't be doing any kind of respectable damage, but a lot of our class is focused on soft control effects too. We should be using things such as roots, stuns, disorients, knockbacks, snares, silencing, action point manipulation, and stat reductions very furiously. A good runepriest will heal, buff, and control, where as a warrior priest will be more about healing, buffing, and dealing damage.

[Lucrece]

I don't think a good runepriest will become one though either. Yes, we won't be doing any kind of respectable damage, but a lot of our class is focused on soft control effects too. We should be using things such as roots, stuns, disorients, knockbacks, snares, silencing, action point manipulation, and stat reductions very furiously. A good runepriest will heal, buff, and control, where as a warrior priest will be more about healing, buffing, and dealing damage.

Have you seen the starting area videos of the Runepriest and Shaman? The Runepriest takes so long to kill a mob in comparison to the Shaman; it's quite bothersome.

Every class should be capable of soloing with some efficiency in both PvP/PvE. The videos I've seen so far seem to put the Runepriest as the odd one out. I really hope they revamp their damage output and offensive-defensive synergy systems during this beta.

[Dunhill]

Have you seen the starting area videos of the Runepriest and Shaman? The Runepriest takes so long to kill a mob in comparison to the Shaman; it's quite bothersome.

Every class should be capable of soloing with some efficiency in both PvP/PvE. The videos I've seen so far seem to put the Runepriest as the odd one out. I really hope they revamp their damage output and offensive-defensive synergy systems during this beta.

Im sure they will. There's still a lot of class balancing to be done. Not only that, they haven't released the mastery information yet for the Rune Priest. I'm pretty sure one of the mastery trees will be about 'smiting' things, and ive seen a few tactics about increasing damage.

[Lucrece]

Im sure they will. There's still a lot of class balancing to be done. Not only that, they haven't released the mastery information yet for the Rune Priest. I'm pretty sure one of the mastery trees will be about 'smiting' things, and ive seen a few tactics about increasing damage.

The baseline still needs to be on par without masteries with other support careers, as those other support careers also get offensive masteries. But yeah, I'm hoping some revamping will be done to both Runepriest and Zealot.

[Dunhill]

The baseline still needs to be on par without masteries with other support careers, as those other support careers also get offensive masteries. But yeah, I'm hoping some revamping will be done to both Runepriest and Zealot.

They better either A) make our damage a little more comparable, or B) make us such kick- healers that anyone would be hard pressed to mess with us

[Lucrece]

They better either A) make our damage a little more comparable, or B) make us such kick- healers that anyone would be hard pressed to mess with us


Option A is truly the only viable option. Runepriests are already good healers as is; what they need is more self-sufficiency and hybrid-ness, which more healing proficiency won't provide.

[Dorian]

I would agree to the fact that in all of the RunePriest videos which I have seen. (Which from my understanding is majority of them.) Their damage was sub-par at best. Now... Before anyone gets me wrong. Let me say that I honestly believe that this is solely because of the state in which the game currently was/is in at the time the video was made. Being as most the videos were a few months old. I cannot come to any other reasonable conclusion then, balancing has not been finely tuned and as a result the RunePriest's damage has been left lacking. With that said. I have no doubt, and am completely confident in the fact that Mythic will resolve this issue, and the RP's damage will be on-par with the other healers. Do not mistake my words as "on-par" may not necessarily mean "Equal To". Rather it will be touched up to be "competitive" rather than "ignorable." I know I am a simple Dwarf in hopes of a Beta key, and the release of Warhammer! But I hope that my confidence in Mythic, to resolve this issue has at least lessened the concern which some have expressed in this aspect of the RP's in-game performance.

[Lucrece]

I hope so, too. If they did revamp the current Runepriest, it'd make me reconsider my career choice.

[WMK01]

I'm not sure how you can call the Runepriest a heal bot when the game's not even out of beta yet. How about we wait untill the classes are actually done being balanced and polished before we make any snap judgements? Sure, it's good to let our concerns be known as early as possible, but why would the devs purposefuly turn one healer class into a heal bot, something they said, with great vehemence I might add, they would never do? It doesn't make any sense. The videos are all good and well, but we can't jump to any conclusions based on them and a few snipets of PvE combat, especially when we don't know the game build or any other extenuating circumstances of any kind.

Wait just a little while longer before you start calling the Runepriests death knell, would you?

[Lucrece]

I'm not sure how you can call the Runepriest a heal bot when the game's not even out of beta yet. How about we wait untill the classes are actually done being balanced and polished before we make any snap judgements? Sure, it's good to let our concerns be known as early as possible, but why would the devs purposefuly turn one healer class into a heal bot, something they said, with great vehemence I might add, they would never do? It doesn't make any sense. The videos are all good and well, but we can't jump to any conclusions based on them and a few snipets of PvE combat, especially when we don't know the game build or any other extenuating circumstances of any kind.

Wait just a little while longer before you start calling the Runepriests death knell, would you?

Oh, make no mistake, I love the concept of the Runepriest; otherwise, you wouldn't see such passion coming from me.

As for promises and statements, the WoW developers said there would be no support classes in the game. Look how the game turned out for hybrids...

[WMK01]

Yes, but that's WoW and Blizzard. They didn't have Paul, and as the good book of Paulism says:

"And yea, though you walk in the valley of the shadow of doubt, doubt not, for Paul is your lord, and he is good-minded, and he is well-founded, and he can speak no flasehood or foul lie, for these things he knows not."


When Paul prances around, making fun of heal bots, I tend to believe him. All I'm saying is, don't jump to conclusions just yet. That being said, I believe all the heal-capable classes will be support classes. No one, to my knowledge, ever said there would be no support classes, they just said that there would be no pure support classes incapable of bringing anything to a battle other than heals and buffs. I'm sure that, if for some un-holy reason, Runepriests are headed down the path of the heal bot, the beta testers will at least raise a mighty ruckus over it. At any rate, at this point I still have faith the devs will live up to their vows, as they've done nothing to make me question their veracity as of yet.

[Dunhill]

Yes, but that's WoW and Blizzard. They didn't have Paul, and as the good book of Paulism says:

"And yea, though you walk in the valley of the shadow of doubt, doubt not, for Paul is your lord, and he is good-minded, and he is well-founded, and he can speak no flasehood or foul lie, for these things he knows not."


When Paul prances around, making fun of heal bots, I tend to believe him. All I'm saying is, don't jump to conclusions just yet. That being said, I believe all the heal-capable classes will be support classes. No one, to my knowledge, ever said there would be no support classes, they just said that there would be no pure support classes incapable of bringing anything to a battle other than heals and buffs. I'm sure that, if for some un-holy reason, Runepriests are headed down the path of the heal bot, the beta testers will at least raise a mighty ruckus over it. At any rate, at this point I still have faith the devs will live up to their vows, as they've done nothing to make me question their veracity as of yet.

Again the only way to make it so we have to DPS along side our healing is by either A) putting cooldowns on our buffs and heals to where we have a few seconds while waiting to span nukes, or B) create a mechanic that ties our damage spells with our healing. Like a warrior priest, disciple, or shaman.

[WMK01]

That's all well and good, if you think that DPS and healing are the only things any class can bring to the table, but don't Runepriests have abilities besides just healing and DPS? The answer is, yes. Yes, they do. What if Runepriests have ways of weakening enemies down to the point where their spells cause more damage? What if Runepriests can strengthen their arms, armour or their very body to cause more physical damage than usual? There are indirect ways of raising DPS too, you know, not to mention all the other abilities Runepriests will have.

[Lucrece]

That's all well and good, if you think that DPS and healing are the only things any class can bring to the table, but don't Runepriests have abilities besides just healing and DPS? The answer is, yes. Yes, they do. What if Runepriests have ways of weakening enemies down to the point where their spells cause more damage? What if Runepriests can strengthen their arms, armour or their very body to cause more physical damage than usual? There are indirect ways of raising DPS too, you know, not to mention all the other abilities Runepriests will have.

Well, the difference is that you're just going by speculation. The videos definitely don't show such a case, whereas they do show a case for self-sufficiency in the Shaman and Zealot.

They had the same amount of time to work on the Zealot and Shaman as the Runepriest, yet the Runepriest is not in a good state in regards of potential pigeonholing.

[Loekii]

Using the numbers seen in videos is pretty erroneous.

Combat will undergo a lot of changes and tweaks between those videos and final release.

The numbers you are seeing are more place holders, than a demonstration of the final damage ranges.

[Lucrece]

Using the numbers seen in videos is pretty erroneous.

Combat will undergo a lot of changes and tweaks between those videos and final release.

The numbers you are seeing are more place holders, than a demonstration of the final damage ranges.

Nobody knows what those tweaks will be, though.

[Loekii]

Exactly, so we need to wait and see how they plan and tweak those numbers, instead of making judgements on the numbers we saw a month(s) ago.

[Lucrece]

Exactly, so we need to wait and see how they plan and tweak those numbers, instead of making judgements on the numbers we saw a month(s) ago.

And maybe we should even refrain from commenting on game development at all, avoid these spoil-full forums, and eliminate all audience-producer interaction while we're at it!

[Loekii]

And maybe we should even refrain from commenting on game development at all, avoid these spoil-full forums, and eliminate all audience-producer interaction while we're at it!

No, we only need to refrain from statements like 'Have you seen the damage in the videos, RPs are horrible at dealing damage'.

[Lucrece]

No, we only need to refrain from statements like 'Have you seen the damage in the videos, RPs are horrible at dealing damage'.


Because to our available knowledge, they are. No harm in letting the occassionally peeping devs that come visit now and then know how we're feeling.

[Dorian]

Take it down a notch lads. Lets keep it respectable. You both are basically arguing the same point, just in different ways. Lets put everything on the right track:

A) No one from what I can tell is saying that RP's, based on the Videos and Press released up till now on them, are definitively going to suck on release.
B) Basing concerns off the current videos/press we have seen so far on them is not completely unwarranted, and in fact is justifiable. Being there is no other way to base a valid concern then off of the information that has been given to us.
C)No one is denying the fact that Mythic is most likely going to do some touch up work on the class.

Perhaps we all have our own opinion on to what extent they should be touched up. But that is understandable as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[WMK01]

No! I'm right, and all the rest of you are completely wrong, even the one's who agree with me! If you all concede defeat, I may spare your souls from eternal torment...


Really though, the Runepriest's damage does seem a bit lacking, it's true, but my main point is, I've faith that the dev's aren't slack-jawed ninny-hammers and will provide other ways for Runepriests, and indeed other classes as well, to defeat enemies beyond direct damage. As is often said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Certainly, voice opinions, would you? That's what the forum is for... just make sure those opinions coincide with my own.:cool:

[Seabee]

I think Runepriests are going to be hard to balance against the other healers. I mean the other two on the order side both have a mechanic to improve their healing via doing damage. Therefore is the runepriest as good as they are when they are buffed in which case much better when they are not doing damage or less effective when they are buffed by whatever mechanism there is.

If the Runepriest is just balanced against the zealot, then I can see issues with some healers being preferred over others.

[Spifnar]

I wouldn't worry about it too much yet, because the guy playing the RP in the video might not have known much about playing an RP. Like the game reviewer who was playing a Witch Hunter that complained about getting killed by a rat.

Also from what I understand (early skill lists and class descriptions), the RP and the Zealot do have a mechanic to increase their heals and spell effects. The Zealot uses a system of Marks and Harbringers to increase effects of certain spells. The RP uses ground target runes for AE effects (buff and probably debuff), and has some interesting single target buffs.

[Krom]

Actually Zealots do have dmg/heal synergy of a sort. Their friendly buffs get stronger the more they cast debuffs on their enemies.

Zealot Specialty
The Zealot deals in symbols. He channels the power of his master through fetishes and totems, and can place the symbols of Chaos on friend and foe alike. Those glyphs placed on Chaos’s loyal followers are called Marks, and can grant entirely new abilities. Those placed on the Zealot’s enemy are called Harbingers, and cause lasting affliction. The Harbingers are well named however, for their full potential is not immediately realized. Using powerful ritual magic, a Zealot can rob the subject of his Harbinger of life and spirit, draining it away to empower the Marks he has placed upon his allies with extraordinary abilities.

Playing as a Zealot
As a Zealot, your task is a complex one. You must prepare your allies for battle, and see that their Marks are set or re-set according to their shifting needs. You must also think offensively, for it is through your use of Harbingers which you are able to both effectively support and magnify the power of your allies, and crush the strength of your enemy. As a spell caster, you must be cautious, but because of your interlinked abilities, you must not be too conservative. If you hold back too much, or try to focus on only one aspect of your powers, all your abilities will be less than they could be.

So basicly, AFAIK, its only the Runepriest that gets left behind. Every other support class's mechanics prod them into acting offensively. Sad news for any Runepriest that wants to be accepted by the general population as more than a buffbot.

I think Dwarfs are cool and I could almost see myself playing a Runepriest, if it wasn't for this fatal flaw.

[Lucrece]

Actually Zealots do have dmg/heal synergy of a sort. Their friendly buffs get stronger the more they cast debuffs on their enemies.



So basicly, AFAIK, its only the Runepriest that gets left behind. Every other support class's mechanics prod them into acting offensively. Sad news for any Runepriest that wants to be accepted by the general population as more than a buffbot.

I think Dwarfs are cool and I could almost see myself playing a Runepriest, if it wasn't for this fatal flaw.

Hopefully playtesters will make this flaw obvious to the devs. They also check these forums now and then, so I'm sure some of the discontent with the Runepriest's current incarnation might have reached them ;).

[Kilava]

Many in this thread says that Runepriest has a bad dps if you compare it with the other support classes, and this is probably right (I havnt seen the vids). Some of you argue that the dps should be raised, but is that really possible? Runepriests are a defensive magic user with far higher armor than the other support characters (Warrior priests are a bit closer than the others). I think that for the Runepriest to have gained this extra armor it had to lose something and in this case it was dps.

I personally would like to play a support character with a very high survivability even if I lose quite a lot dps, but on the other side I could probably play a pure support character also.

In essence, I don’t mean that they cant raise the dps a bit, but its unreasonably to raise the dps to the same lvl as the other support characters.

PS I don’t know anything about warhammer lore and the runepriest place in it.

[Lucrece]

Many in this thread says that Runepriest has a bad dps if you compare it with the other support classes, and this is probably right (I havnt seen the vids). Some of you argue that the dps should be raised, but is that really possible? Runepriests are a defensive magic user with far higher armor than the other support characters (Warrior priests are a bit closer than the others). I think that for the Runepriest to have gained this extra armor it had to lose something and in this case it was dps.

I personally would like to play a support character with a very high survivability even if I lose quite a lot dps, but on the other side I could probably play a pure support character also.

In essence, I don’t mean that they cant raise the dps a bit, but its unreasonably to raise the dps to the same lvl as the other support characters.

PS I don’t know anything about warhammer lore and the runepriest place in it.

Runesmiths, which were far from being mages, wre bastardized into what the Runepriest is.

Runepriests have higher defense, but not as high as the WP; it's the buffs that put him on a comparable footing to the WP. Furthermore, Runepriests already lose something for their armor: Their healing system needs to be preemptive more than reactionary, as opposed to the other careers. The runes need to be set up, and in some cases there are 5 second+ casts from what I've heard.

There needs to be a mechanic that gives the Runepriest self-sufficiency instead of turning him into a mere pocket healer with total dependence upon other classes to get things accomplished.

[Kilava]

Runesmiths, which were far from being mages, wre bastardized into what the Runepriest is.

Runepriests have higher defense, but not as high as the WP; it's the buffs that put him on a comparable footing to the WP. Furthermore, Runepriests already lose something for their armor: Their healing system needs to be preemptive more than reactionary, as opposed to the other careers. The runes need to be set up, and in some cases there are 5 second+ casts from what I've heard.

There needs to be a mechanic that gives the Runepriest self-sufficiency instead of turning him into a mere pocket healer with total dependence upon other classes to get things accomplished.

About the armor:
Warrior Priest: Moderately armored with breast plate worn over a long robe and vestments of faith
Runepriest: Well armored in medium, rune-inscribed armor
From the description it looks like Runepriests have a higher armor than the Warrior Priest, but I havnt followed what people that have played them have said, and how effective the armor is depends also if the runes on the armor can be dispelled I guess.

About the healing:
On what do you base that the runepriests healing is pre-emptive under a fight? (Buffing before a battle is one thing, but pre-emptive under a fight under a fight is something else)
On a other note, if its true that the runepriests healing is pre-emptive, how can the runepriest dps at all? I don’t really know to what degree of pre-emptive you mean, but if it truly was a problem I think it would be hard for a runepriest to “waste” time doing damage. If you have the time to dps you have the all the time you need to heal. (depends ofc how long it takes to cast a offensive spell)

I don’t mean that a runepriest should be unable to kill anything, but a 30% increase in the time or so to kill a mob is ok. (compared with a “standard” support character)

[Dorian]

About the armor:
Warrior Priest: Moderately armored with breast plate worn over a long robe and vestments of faith
Runepriest: Well armored in medium, rune-inscribed armor
From the description it looks like Runepriests have a higher armor than the Warrior Priest, but I havnt followed what people that have played them have said, and how effective the armor is depends also if the runes on the armor can be dispelled I guess.

I am not sure of the equality on the armor of the two classes. But referring to the Runes on the RP armor. When they say Rune Inscribed they simply mean "Stitched into their armor". the Runes on RP armor has no effect on their armor base or stats or anything. They are simply Cosmetic, so obviously they can not be dispelled as there is nothing there to dispel.


About the healing:
On what do you base that the runepriests healing is pre-emptive under a fight? (Buffing before a battle is one thing, but pre-emptive under a fight under a fight is something else)
On a other note, if its true that the runepriests healing is pre-emptive, how can the runepriest dps at all? I don’t really know to what degree of pre-emptive you mean, but if it truly was a problem I think it would be hard for a runepriest to “waste” time doing damage. If you have the time to dps you have the all the time you need to heal. (depends ofc how long it takes to cast a offensive spell)
Very little (If any) of the RP's healing is pre-emtive. All their heals are direct. Their Runes, in particularly their Runes of Oath are best utilized if applied pre-emptively but by no means are they restricted to pre battle. They can easily be applied while in the midst of combat. The only form of Pre-emtive healing that I am aware of for RP is the Oathrune of Healing, which increases healling on the target which it is bestowed. If they choose to break the Oath the rune will directly heal them for "X Amount" of damage. Even then I could hardly consider that pre-emptive as the only healing the rune provides on its own is more like a hearthstone or heal pot from WoW.

[Lucrece]

The Runepriest is the only class that has to split AP between healing and damage. You have to play preemptively by being careful about AP management in order to balance your healing and damaging attacks.

[Dorian]

The Runepriest is the only class that has to split AP between healing and damage. You have to play preemptively by being careful about AP management in order to balance your healing and damaging attacks.

I will agree to that, but I can't see it as an issue which in turn "gimps" the RP. Not yet at least. It very well may be that their heals and damage will have a higher base effect then the other support classes because they have no secondary mechanic to enhance their capabilities. This is yet to be known though. As we have discussed previously, the videos we have on RP haven't shown such hopes, but that isn't to say it is not Mythic intentions and they have just not fulfilled them yet.

[Lucrece]

I will agree to that, but I can't see it as an issue which in turn "gimps" the RP. Not yet at least. It very well may be that their heals and damage will have a higher base effect then the other support classes because they have no secondary mechanic to enhance their capabilities. This is yet to be known though. As we have discussed previously, the videos we have on RP haven't shown such hopes, but that isn't to say it is not Mythic intentions and they have just not fulfilled them yet.


Agreed. I'm hoping good things will come out of the beta phase concerning the RP. It's just such a fascinating career with its background.

[Dunhill]

The Runepriest is the only class that has to split AP between healing and damage. You have to play preemptively by being careful about AP management in order to balance your healing and damaging attacks.

That's not entirely correct. I do know that the Warrior Priest has to use righteous fury on his heals, but they do cost AP as well. The Zealot so far seems to have his heals cost AP too.

The Shaman can heal without Waaagh built up, but they suck, and they cost AP no matter what.

I dont know anything about the disciple or archmage yet.

(source (http://war.gamewikis.org/wiki/Warrior_Priest)on warrior priest)

[Duerghaul]

So basicly, AFAIK, its only the Runepriest that gets left behind. Every other support class's mechanics prod them into acting offensively. Sad news for any Runepriest that wants to be accepted by the general population as more than a buffbot.

I think Dwarfs are cool and I could almost see myself playing a Runepriest, if it wasn't for this fatal flaw.

How many RvR battles have you experienced that lasted several minutes, or long enough to compensate such a build up of momentum/morale? The team that wins is the team that hits hard and fast, utilizing assists and burst damage to take down each member of the opposition. In such a scenario, I would rather have a healer that can utilize ALL their abilities and spells right at the outset of the battle, not wait for them to build up some sort of momentum mechanic.

Runepriests will be one of the most viable healers in the game. I'm very comfortable with making that assertion.

[Dorian]

That's not entirely correct. I do know that the Warrior Priest has to use righteous fury on his heals, but they do cost AP as well. The Zealot so far seems to have his heals cost AP too.

The Shaman can heal without Waaagh built up, but they suck, and they cost AP no matter what.

I dont know anything about the disciple or archmage yet.

(source (http://war.gamewikis.org/wiki/Warrior_Priest)on warrior priest)

Lucrece wasn't pointing out that the abilities would cost AP or not. We are already aware of the fact that they do. What we were discussing is RP and Zealot don't possess a secondary action bar which enhances their abilities. Shaman's Waagh from what we know reduces AP cost of their heals, while WP Righteous Fury either increases the base effect of their healing or the AP cost (I am not sure.) So we are discussing how this will factor into the balance of the classes when compared to their companion support characters.

[Dunhill]

How many RvR battles have you experienced that lasted several minutes, or long enough to compensate such a build up of momentum/morale? The team that wins is the team that hits hard and fast, utilizing assists and burst damage to take down each member of the opposition. In such a scenario, I would rather have a healer that can utilize ALL their abilities and spells right at the outset of the battle, not wait for them to build up some sort of momentum mechanic.

Runepriests will be one of the most viable healers in the game. I'm very comfortable with making that assertion.

You see this is what is getting some of us worried. Like i said in a previous post, some people may find the Runepriest a favored class. In that they find the need-2-dps aspect of the other healers a burden.

Others worry that the career will get pigeonholed into a heal-n-buff only role when pressured by a guild, group, etc

[Lucrece]

You see this is what is getting some of us worried. Like i said in a previous post, some people may find the Runepriest a favored class. In that they find the need-2-dps aspect of the other healers a burden.

Others worry that the career will get pigeonholed into a heal-n-buff only role when pressured by a guild, group, etc

Furthermore, allowing these scenarios to play out would be terrible. Not only for RP/Zealot players who wished more than being a debuff/buff/healbot, but because it establishes the precedent for breaking their promise of innovation ("all healers will not stand back and heal"; only that unless there's a system that rewards them for using their inferior offensive abilities in the place of a heal, people WILL stand back and heal, seeing as there is no penalty for doing so) . If they allow this to happen, what could possibly assure the community that they would be able to make tanks viable in RvR and not make them devolve into half-assed armored DPS toons. Their credibility goes down the drain.

[Seabee]

Whatever the runepriests look for armour, the developers have said 4 of the healers wear light armour and two have medium (the melee healers). This was in the recent newsletter q&a.

[vehemoth]

Furthermore, allowing these scenarios to play out would be terrible. Not only for RP/Zealot players who wished more than being a debuff/buff/healbot, but because it establishes the precedent for breaking their promise of innovation ("all healers will not stand back and heal"; only that unless there's a system that rewards them for using their inferior offensive abilities in the place of a heal, people WILL stand back and heal, seeing as there is no penalty for doing so) . If they allow this to happen, what could possibly assure the community that they would be able to make tanks viable in RvR and not make them devolve into half-assed armored DPS toons. Their credibility goes down the drain.

I beleive you are underestimating the complex qualities which the Runepriest posseses. The Runepriest uses a complex network of oath runes with a MasterRune to fit the situation needs of their group. The need for heals comes and goes, and the Runepries can meet that need as they see fit. They also have ample time to do damage as we have seen in many many videos. You may stand back and heal, if it so pleases you, but how will you meet your full potential? Ap regenerate. it is more about timing that reserving it. This concern with the Runepriest is due to design in other games. There is a lot the Runepriest can do and assuming all they will do is heal is unwarranted.

[Lucrece]

I beleive you are underestimating the complex qualities which the Runepriest posseses. The Runepriest uses a complex network of oath runes with a MasterRune to fit the situation needs of their group. The need for heals comes and goes, and the Runepries can meet that need as they see fit. They also have ample time to do damage as we have seen in many many videos. You may stand back and heal, if it so pleases you, but how will you meet your full potential? Ap regenerate. it is more about timing that reserving it. This concern with the Runepriest is due to design in other games. There is a lot the Runepriest can do and assuming all they will do is heal is unwarranted.

A 2 second nuke with a 70 damage average in comparison to the shaman's usual 150-160 is a pitiful offensive potential. So far from what has been seen, the damage is negligible, and it is wasted time that can be spent healing, as battles require nonstop healing if they are truly competitive.

They may have complexity in buffing, but it's just that: Buffing and healing. Nothing in their available setup demands offensive interaction; there's no justification for attacks. This is by definition a buff/healbot, no matter how you want to slice it.

It is also a question of self-sufficiency. Will the RP be a threat to anyone? The career overview seems to say no. This will kill the careers popularity, and it will make for a breach of the promise Mythic made concerning healers who stand back and buff/heal. What other promises can we expect them to keep afterwards, then?

[Seabee]

Well the runepriest might be a threat alive even if not for damage. They are still in beta to balance the classes. Maybe the archmage and shaman pair have less effective buffs so they will add less to their group.

[Lucrece]

Well the runepriest might be a threat alive even if not for damage. They are still in beta to balance the classes. Maybe the archmage and shaman pair have less effective buffs so they will add less to their group.

And that would send balance to hell, making the Runepriest the clear cut choice for a support career.

[Seabee]

Well doing damage is part of the balance.

[Bundles]

In all fairness I really like what I've seen from other classes. And there's nothing that concerns me about RP's, ohnoes our damage is'nt all what other peoples are. However, if my buffs can contribute to my groups DPS, more power to me, have'nt found a Wizzy, or A tank that does'nt like to crit higher than he did the day before. Also, believe I read somewhere about our runes being only applicable to our own group, and those group mates can activate certain runes/buffs, such as the heal (i believe) which is great.
Thought I also read that RP's have DoT spells, which could make them nasty in pvp (ala eq's necro's&shamans in pvp). I enjoy the PvP servers, and the healers, the Runepriest to me, will be very effective, only game-play experience is going to tell.
Don't think there will be a group out there that has played with a solid RP that won't want her/him back.

[Tyranus]

Just based on what little lore and information i've gathered lately it seems to be that RP's will not be the most damaging class by far. I think it's going to be easy to say that the Archmage, Disciple, and Shaman will outdo the RP with ease in this category. I think it's also safe to say that the Warrior Priest is going to be a lot more offensively capable as well, perhaps even being in one of the top spots as he's melee oriented. Then it comes to the zealot and based on what we've seen i think they're gonna be AoE buffers/healers and ranged DPS. The problem as we've all seen is where are the RP's going to be?

Just going through everything i've found i can tell you if WAR sticks to the lore, as it should, the RP is going to be pretty low on DPS as a whole. But the bonuses we're going to see will more than make up for that. Just look at the dwarfs as a race. They're tough, resilient, and completely crazy. With the RP being the support lines and healer for this group i think it's easy to see that the RP will be one of the hardest classes to kill period. Adding the fact that this guy is a dwarf with insane buffs and heals it'll be amazing to see this guy keep chugging.

Does this mean DPS is out of the question, certainly not, we've already seen low level rune nukes do some alright damage. Plus as a defensively oriented character is not going to go into battle without some tricks up their sleeves. AoE's should be pretty common as well as DoT's and Snares like none other. The way i see it this guy won't be doing the heavy lifting, his lackey Ironbreakers and Hammerer's can wade into melee once you've got them trapped, and the engineer can keep them at bay while you do the real work, keeping some insane and at least partially drunk dwarfs alive to fight another battle.

[Calotast]

Why not tie Buffs/Debuffs into their healing/damage?

What I mean by that is having self buffing Rune put on the RP everytime they use a Rune on another character.

- when the Runeprist uses a Rune on an enemy, a Dot/Snare, etc, they get a self buff that increases healing over the next 6 seconds by 100%

- when the Runeprist uses a Rune on an ally, their damage increases by 100% for 4 seconds


By doing this, and making sure the healing/AP ratio is unattractive when doing these spells without the self buffs, it strongly encourages the RP to engage in separate tasks. So if the Runepriest wants to heal more effectively, they need to engage the enemy. If they want to deal more damage, they need to make sure they're helping allies.

These numbers are placeholders just to give an idea of how the mechanic could work. But this would engage the Runepriest in a give and take type situation with their abilities and how they will effect the battlefield. Just an idea. :mrgreen:

[Celestian]

You could only heal, but all healer careers are supposed to heal when needed and DPS at every other moment.

If you only heal, you are just standing there doing nothing when you could be doing damage, and since there is no mana that needs to be saved for later there is no point in doing that.

So like, nukes are free mana/power cost or something? I find that hard to believe.

[Lucrece]

Why not tie Buffs/Debuffs into their healing/damage?

What I mean by that is having self buffing Rune put on the RP everytime they use a Rune on another character.

- when the Runeprist uses a Rune on an enemy, a Dot/Snare, etc, they get a self buff that increases healing over the next 6 seconds by 100%

- when the Runeprist uses a Rune on an ally, their damage increases by 100% for 4 seconds


By doing this, and making sure the healing/AP ratio is unattractive when doing these spells without the self buffs, it strongly encourages the RP to engage in separate tasks. So if the Runepriest wants to heal more effectively, they need to engage the enemy. If they want to deal more damage, they need to make sure they're helping allies.

These numbers are placeholders just to give an idea of how the mechanic could work. But this would engage the Runepriest in a give and take type situation with their abilities and how they will effect the battlefield. Just an idea. :mrgreen:

That's a pretty good idea, actually.

[Calotast]

Thanks Lucrece.

Celestian, nukes and the like aren't free. The base mechanic for all classes is AP (Action Points), which constantly regen - think Rogue in WoW. This allows the fight to continue indefinately instead of a magic user running out of mana and than being nothing but a hunk of liver.

So what he was trying to say was if you're only healing but there isn't anything to heal so youre just standing there waiting with full Action Points, you're wasting points that will regen in the next few moments anyway.

The inherent problem is in large scale RvR, there will always be healing needed. So there is no known mechanic to prevent the Runepriest from becoming a healbot.

[Axxar]

That's a pretty good idea, actually.I second that.

[Dunhill]

Why not tie Buffs/Debuffs into their healing/damage?

What I mean by that is having self buffing Rune put on the RP everytime they use a Rune on another character.

- when the Runeprist uses a Rune on an enemy, a Dot/Snare, etc, they get a self buff that increases healing over the next 6 seconds by 100%

- when the Runeprist uses a Rune on an ally, their damage increases by 100% for 4 seconds


By doing this, and making sure the healing/AP ratio is unattractive when doing these spells without the self buffs, it strongly encourages the RP to engage in separate tasks. So if the Runepriest wants to heal more effectively, they need to engage the enemy. If they want to deal more damage, they need to make sure they're helping allies.

These numbers are placeholders just to give an idea of how the mechanic could work. But this would engage the Runepriest in a give and take type situation with their abilities and how they will effect the battlefield. Just an idea. :mrgreen:
I was thinking about something similar in a separate thread. So far the shaman will do damage to increase his healing, but what about healing to increase his damage in a similar mechanic? So if the RP does enough healing you would be stupid to not cast a nuke.

[porcu12345]

Buff the runepriest's damage output, and i'll play one and be happy.

Don't buff the runepriest's damage output, and i'll play one and whine like a little gas bag untill we get increased damage output.

[Grudginglyyours]

Well, idle speculation and veiled statements to the contrary, the best way to help a runepriest out and help flesh out the skeleton build is to be a beta tester. The best way as of current to get a shot at getting in to closed beta, go buy a copy or five or 50 of the new comic coming out, Condemned by Fire, released and in comic book stores April 23rd or 25th, I think 23rd is ship date, 25th is release date. There is a 1 in 4 chance of getting a code to get into closed beta. So go pay some money for a chance to get into closed beta, and maybe just maybe you too can be hampered by a ironclad non-disclosure agreement. And live in the frustrating world of the current rune priest beta testers. Otherwise constructive or negative feedback aside we ultimately spin our wheels. Though speculation creates ideas and ideas can be used to create opportunities so on second though speculate away, you must just come up with an idea to make runepriests greater then they already will be.

The greatest test of man or dwarf is not what he does when everyone is watching it is what he does when no one is watching.

[Dunhill]

Buff the runepriest's damage output, and i'll play one and be happy.

Don't buff the runepriest's damage output, and i'll play one and whine like a little gas bag untill we get increased damage output.
Lol. Thats how some of us got blizzard to buff the paladin's/shaman's dps to become raid viable. Not sure if ea mythic will do the same :P

[nero0102]

Uh, did I read that right? RP's get a DoT?

I'm in!! (not joking)

DoT's IMO are the best offense for my preference in support classes. Nothing beats damaging people even a little bit while you are healing your burly protector at the same time.

[Jimbaker]

Uh, did I read that right? RP's get a DoT?

I'm in!! (not joking)

DoT's IMO are the best offense for my preference in support classes. Nothing beats damaging people even a little bit while you are healing your burly protector at the same time.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. As long our our DOTs won't cancel out others (a long time ago the amount of DOTs allowed on one mob in wow were VERY limited). However, we kind of made it a joke to piss the warlocks off (they knew it was a joke as well), having 7 priests throw up shadow word: pain at the same time. I love DOTs as well. I'm not as big of a fan of HOT (I'm a serial clicker with ADHD), but we'll see.

[Niji]

I don't like DoTs at all. They are almost always an inferior form of damage due to the fact that they are many times easier to heal through than direct damage. Also, they can be dispelled.

[Foul Being]

IMO it all comes down to this:

A Runepriest covering my back in a small groupfight, YES PLEASE.
PLaying one ? maybe challenging (runes seem cool) but no thnx.
Playing a shaman who can throw green fists around and do (almost) instant heals after dps ? YES PLEASE.

[Farao51]

I bet demage:healing ratio is about 1:3

[Quixote]

I think you guys need to put the RUNE back in runepriest and focus less on the PRIEST. The whole mechanic behind RP/Zealot is that they buff their allies and then debuff their enemies. Zealots have the abilities of their Marks increased by the number of Harbingers they have out. RPs are a mirror. It probibly isn't an exact mirror, but it could easily have the same mechanic but with a different shift, for example the RP could be focused more heavily on taking and holding (see Master Runes).

To break down my understanding of the Rune system a bit more easily, I'm going to make an example. Keep in mind that they've said " You can use your runes to protect your friends and enhance their powers (even placing some of the runes’ effects under the subject’s control), but their strength wanes quickly upon use and you must be ready to reinforce them as needed."

I'm a Runepriest. My buddy's an Ironbreaker. Before we go out adventuring I cast a powerful rune of Fire on his weapon, granting him the ability to unleash a blast of flame at will to grab aggro on a large numer of mobs. I also cast my main rune of Healing on him. I cast a similar setup on myself. This rune triggers a heal whenever I have him targeted and I press the Release Defensive Runic Power button. It has 10 charges. Releasing the power stored in the rune does not take time, nor AP. The pre-emptive cast time on the rune is 10 seconds.

We get jumped by a trio of Greenskins, two Choppas and a Shaman. My ironbreaker tanks the two Choppas (using the PVP Tanking mechanics and such), while I start doing my thing. Since we're outnumbered, I lay down a powerful damage over time/heal over time Master Rune around the two Choppas attacking the Ironbreaker. I keep my friendly target on the Ironbreaker while I cast a damage/debuff rune on one of the Choppas. It inflicts a 30 second debuff to action point regeneration, and if I push the Release Offensive Runic Power button with him targetted, I consume the debuff and deal damage based on how much time was left on the debuff (It would be less efficient to cast a rune and then instantly release it's power, but more bursty, compared to waiting towards the end of the duration, IE 100% damage at under 5 seconds for 100% AP cost, 70% damage at 25-30 seconds, but 1/5 the AP cost and you had the debuff for 30 seconds). I nail the other Choppa with a rune that causes him to take a large amount of extra damage whenever my Ironbreaker buddy uses his rune of Fire. I hit the Shaman with a rune that stays dormant, allowing me to empower it more and more (by essentially casting my standard nuke rune) until I choose to release it in a large, highly damaging AoE. I keep triggering my rune of Healing as I need to to keep my buddy up and myself up.

It's a tense stalemate, the Goblin is balancing his damage and healing, keeping the two Choppas and himself up while I keep the Ironbreaker alive and prevent the Choppas from becoming destructive enough that they can take us out. My offensive runes debuff AND cause damage, either personally or vicariously. I keep applying various runic abilities as often as I can, maintaining the debuffs, keeping the Master Rune running, inflicting damage with my direct damage runic abilities. My healing rune is running out of charges though. Thankfully, Mythic is smart and made it so being a pure healbot is stupid and ineffective compared to playing a class fully, making use of both offensive and defensive abilities. For each rune I have out (excluding the preparatory buffs I toss on my friends), that means the debuffs, the Master rune, etc..., I get either A) more charges on my healing rune or B) Each rune out decreases the rebuff time on my prepatory runes. I recharge my rune of Healing, and tell my Ironbreaker buddy that we need to go after the Shaman, now that he's built up some grudge. The Ironbreaker charges the Shaman, unleashes his AoE fire rune and a high grudge high damage ability at the same time I unleash that big slow charging rune that I'd been applying on the Shaman. Because the Shaman is squishy, we take him out. Since the Choppas followed our charge on the Shaman, they also get a big chunk of their HP taken out by the AoE. The Ironbreaker attacks one of the remaining choppas, CCing him to prevent him from running. The other Choppa sees the writing on the wall and flees, abandoning his friend to certain death.

See? The idea is runic synergy. The more runes in play, the better they are. It's all about preperatory defensive casting so that you can focus on offensive casting once the fight starts. That offensive casting helps your prepatory abilities become viable in long fights by allowing you to refresh them. It rewards timing by letting you unleash the power of runes at the right moment on your offensive and defensive abilities. I invision the Master Runes as kind of the equivilent of shadow hunter stances. The efficacy of certain runes and therefore playstyle of your runepriest changes based on which of the Master Runes you've put into the field. Each Master Rune belongs to a family of runes, and while that Master rune is being used the runes from that family work better, feeding off of each other's power. One Master Rune could trigger an AoE Nuke or Heal everytime a friendly player triggers one of their runic abilities while simultaneously increasing the effectiveness of those buff runes, another one could be that straight up damage over time/regen aura that increases the power of your other AoE runes, another could buff the amount of damage enemies take while reducing the damage done to friendlies while empowering your direct damage runes. Master Runes last a minute or so and take a good bit of time to cast to start with, but can be refreshed instantly for a chunk of AP at any point by pushing your Refresh Master Rune ability.

This focus on Master Runes ties in really well to the theme of the Dwarven Army - Hold tight and wait out the enemy, don't give an inch of ground, and after we've worn them down with our mighty defenses we turn the table with our offensive power being stronger the longer we fight. Ironbreakers build up grudge, Hammerers build up momentum, Engineers have turrets, and Runepriests have Master Runes. All in all it adds up to an army that is excellent at defensive, take and hold type combat. Can you imagine having several Runepriests set up Master Runes behind the gate of a keep, while several Engineers set up turrets and mines while the Ironbreakers form a line. The Greenskins charge through the gate after their battering ram does it's job. Can you say Bye Bye Zerg? Mythic said that well played moderately sized groups of players would be able to destroy Zergs if they play intelligently. I think this is an example of being able to do that.

[Arnalerix]

Uh, did I read that right? RP's get a DoT?

I'm in!! (not joking)

DoT's IMO are the best offense for my preference in support classes. Nothing beats damaging people even a little bit while you are healing your burly protector at the same time.


I have an unhealthy obsession with HoTs and DoTs.

The Rune Priest sounds like it'll be fun for me. Someone speculated about placing runes/runing people to increase effectiveness of rune abilities (I think "magic" is the wrong word for it) -- I thought I'd read that somewhere official?

[lordbachus]

Will this be the class closest to the midgard dwarf healer ?

[Professor Nomos]

Will this be the class closest to the midgard dwarf healer ?

yeah probably.

[andrew1110]

I think you guys need to put the RUNE back in runepriest and focus less on the PRIEST. The whole mechanic behind RP/Zealot is that they buff their allies and then debuff their enemies. Zealots have the abilities of their Marks increased by the number of Harbingers they have out. RPs are a mirror. It probibly isn't an exact mirror, but it could easily have the same mechanic but with a different shift, for example the RP could be focused more heavily on taking and holding (see Master Runes).

To break down my understanding of the Rune system a bit more easily, I'm going to make an example. Keep in mind that they've said " You can use your runes to protect your friends and enhance their powers (even placing some of the runes’ effects under the subject’s control), but their strength wanes quickly upon use and you must be ready to reinforce them as needed."

I'm a Runepriest. My buddy's an Ironbreaker. Before we go out adventuring I cast a powerful rune of Fire on his weapon, granting him the ability to unleash a blast of flame at will to grab aggro on a large numer of mobs. I also cast my main rune of Healing on him. I cast a similar setup on myself. This rune triggers a heal whenever I have him targeted and I press the Release Defensive Runic Power button. It has 10 charges. Releasing the power stored in the rune does not take time, nor AP. The pre-emptive cast time on the rune is 10 seconds.

We get jumped by a trio of Greenskins, two Choppas and a Shaman. My ironbreaker tanks the two Choppas (using the PVP Tanking mechanics and such), while I start doing my thing. Since we're outnumbered, I lay down a powerful damage over time/heal over time Master Rune around the two Choppas attacking the Ironbreaker. I keep my friendly target on the Ironbreaker while I cast a damage/debuff rune on one of the Choppas. It inflicts a 30 second debuff to action point regeneration, and if I push the Release Offensive Runic Power button with him targetted, I consume the debuff and deal damage based on how much time was left on the debuff (It would be less efficient to cast a rune and then instantly release it's power, but more bursty, compared to waiting towards the end of the duration, IE 100% damage at under 5 seconds for 100% AP cost, 70% damage at 25-30 seconds, but 1/5 the AP cost and you had the debuff for 30 seconds). I nail the other Choppa with a rune that causes him to take a large amount of extra damage whenever my Ironbreaker buddy uses his rune of Fire. I hit the Shaman with a rune that stays dormant, allowing me to empower it more and more (by essentially casting my standard nuke rune) until I choose to release it in a large, highly damaging AoE. I keep triggering my rune of Healing as I need to to keep my buddy up and myself up.

It's a tense stalemate, the Goblin is balancing his damage and healing, keeping the two Choppas and himself up while I keep the Ironbreaker alive and prevent the Choppas from becoming destructive enough that they can take us out. My offensive runes debuff AND cause damage, either personally or vicariously. I keep applying various runic abilities as often as I can, maintaining the debuffs, keeping the Master Rune running, inflicting damage with my direct damage runic abilities. My healing rune is running out of charges though. Thankfully, Mythic is smart and made it so being a pure healbot is stupid and ineffective compared to playing a class fully, making use of both offensive and defensive abilities. For each rune I have out (excluding the preparatory buffs I toss on my friends), that means the debuffs, the Master rune, etc..., I get either A) more charges on my healing rune or B) Each rune out decreases the rebuff time on my prepatory runes. I recharge my rune of Healing, and tell my Ironbreaker buddy that we need to go after the Shaman, now that he's built up some grudge. The Ironbreaker charges the Shaman, unleashes his AoE fire rune and a high grudge high damage ability at the same time I unleash that big slow charging rune that I'd been applying on the Shaman. Because the Shaman is squishy, we take him out. Since the Choppas followed our charge on the Shaman, they also get a big chunk of their HP taken out by the AoE. The Ironbreaker attacks one of the remaining choppas, CCing him to prevent him from running. The other Choppa sees the writing on the wall and flees, abandoning his friend to certain death.

See? The idea is runic synergy. The more runes in play, the better they are. It's all about preperatory defensive casting so that you can focus on offensive casting once the fight starts. That offensive casting helps your prepatory abilities become viable in long fights by allowing you to refresh them. It rewards timing by letting you unleash the power of runes at the right moment on your offensive and defensive abilities. I invision the Master Runes as kind of the equivilent of shadow hunter stances. The efficacy of certain runes and therefore playstyle of your runepriest changes based on which of the Master Runes you've put into the field. Each Master Rune belongs to a family of runes, and while that Master rune is being used the runes from that family work better, feeding off of each other's power. One Master Rune could trigger an AoE Nuke or Heal everytime a friendly player triggers one of their runic abilities while simultaneously increasing the effectiveness of those buff runes, another one could be that straight up damage over time/regen aura that increases the power of your other AoE runes, another could buff the amount of damage enemies take while reducing the damage done to friendlies while empowering your direct damage runes. Master Runes last a minute or so and take a good bit of time to cast to start with, but can be refreshed instantly for a chunk of AP at any point by pushing your Refresh Master Rune ability.

This focus on Master Runes ties in really well to the theme of the Dwarven Army - Hold tight and wait out the enemy, don't give an inch of ground, and after we've worn them down with our mighty defenses we turn the table with our offensive power being stronger the longer we fight. Ironbreakers build up grudge, Hammerers build up momentum, Engineers have turrets, and Runepriests have Master Runes. All in all it adds up to an army that is excellent at defensive, take and hold type combat. Can you imagine having several Runepriests set up Master Runes behind the gate of a keep, while several Engineers set up turrets and mines while the Ironbreakers form a line. The Greenskins charge through the gate after their battering ram does it's job. Can you say Bye Bye Zerg? Mythic said that well played moderately sized groups of players would be able to destroy Zergs if they play intelligently. I think this is an example of being able to do that.


This guy knows his stuff! Wow...after reading so much negative feedback on the RP's...reading this just made me happy for choosing a runepriest. No, I haven't gotten to try the game yet but once the open beta is here...I'm going to make one. It isn't what class can do the most damage - it's the person that can control the class and make such a small, underdog class become great. The person that I quoted above - maybe it's possible and maybe it's not to do so much...it depends on the person you play with and if they can think on their toes. Put it this way, a lot of the classes are probably less complex because they just hand out major damage - which is nice...but don't forget a lot of those fire casters do explode... When a rune priest walks onto the battlefield..half his army is dead. He comes to medic a lot of the injured soldiers and rez a few of his buddies - or save his rune to self rez himself. He gets his army stronger and stronger - activates more runes and saves the day. Now this might not happen but it's worth a shot to give the love back to the RP's that is needed. This class will be very scarce...but that's the fun of this class. It's not how much damage a class gives (or how big they are) it's how big you make them and how well you can play that class. That's my spiel. Thanks! for taking the time to read this! :)


P.S. Mythic, please release the open beta - a bunch of people would love you even more and we little people that can only get into the open beta can help out just as much as the people in the closed beta! =) We are sick of waiting...let us in!! PLEASE! :D:D:D

[porcu12345]

Mythic arn't stupid. Rest assured there will be ways to enhance damage with tactics and not by amounts either. Large amounts.

[Beylir]

I've heard there is a tactic to increase your dmg by something like 25% but lowers your heal ammount by 15-20% (i have no idea on the numbers just saw it on a video) I doubt this will be RP only, but I dont really know.

As to how to balance the archmage/shaman type of mechanic so you can cast almost instant heals after throwing out a few damage spells.... I think I would miss this as a RP.
GIVE ME A RESON TO DPS! even if the dps is sub-par. Even if I am only throwing out DoTs so I can heal faster.

[Vyker]

I don't like DoTs at all. They are almost always an inferior form of damage due to the fact that they are many times easier to heal through than direct damage. Also, they can be dispelled.

Unless you are in the beta, I would like to know how you know these things. Just because dots can be dispelled in other games doesn't mean they can in this game.

Additionally, dots may or may not be easier to heal through. Firstly, not everyone will have heals available. Without a healer, a dot is a great form of dps. Secondly, they almost always have a higher damage per mana/ap amount meaning they grow more effective the longer the fight. Thirdly, if you cast a dot you are doing constant dps which may be high dps to boot while you are casting other spells such as cc spells. Lastly, the cast time is important too. If dots are instant and dd's are cast, they will be vastly superior in a variety of situations.

Next time you make this kind of statement try "I don't like DoTs in WOW at all. Thier implementation made them inferior forms of damage due to...." or simply "I am a disgruntled WOW warlock/shadow priest".

[Drav3n]

Unless you are in the beta, I would like to know how you know these things. Just because dots can be dispelled in other games doesn't mean they can in this game.

Additionally, dots may or may not be easier to heal through. Firstly, not everyone will have heals available. Without a healer, a dot is a great form of dps. Secondly, they almost always have a higher damage per mana/ap amount meaning they grow more effective the longer the fight. Thirdly, if you cast a dot you are doing constant dps which may be high dps to boot while you are casting other spells such as cc spells. Lastly, the cast time is important too. If dots are instant and dd's are cast, they will be vastly superior in a variety of situations.

Next time you make this kind of statement try "I don't like DoTs in WOW at all. Thier implementation made them inferior forms of damage due to...." or simply "I am a disgruntled WOW warlock/shadow priest".

"Unless you are in beta, I would like to know how you know these things."

Take your own advice and chill, it's all speculation here.

[porcu12345]

"Unless you are in beta, I would like to know how you know these things."

Take your own advice and chill, it's all speculation here.

You don't have to be in beta to know things.

[Drav3n]

You don't have to be in beta to know things.

I don't see anywhere in any of my posts where I said you did...

Try taking a look at the post I quoted before jumping to conclusions. A lot of the things said in this thread have both not been confirmed and are speculations from twisting words.

Be patient and you'll see.

[porcu12345]

I don't see anywhere in any of my posts where I said you did...

Try taking a look at the post I quoted before jumping to conclusions. A lot of the things said in this thread have both not been confirmed and are speculations from twisting words.

Be patient and you'll see.

"Unless you are in beta, I would like to know how you know these things"

"You don't have to be in beta to know things"

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[Foul Being]

The power of an Runepriest is not in soley (< is that right ^.^?) healing or nuking. The runepriest hasd the ability to fortify himself and his teammates in a network of runes. The runes can either buff your defenses, or give you extra offensive abilities/power. The runepriest will (imo) be a foe hard to kill, because of the runes he can implement on himself. Some Runes casted, can be used by clicking on it, wich gives you a offensive/defensive/healing advantage, but the rune has to be re-cast after using it.

(^ speculation)

So in short: A runepriest who wants to be a healbot, is going to be way more effective if he combines the use of runes and healing.
This mechanism (if u wanna call it that) is very appealing to me, but i cannot stand doing poor damage and imo the runepriests dont look as cool as most of the other careers in WAR do. BUT ! the spells he casts look very cool though.

[Drav3n]

"Unless you are in beta, I would like to know how you know these things"

"You don't have to be in beta to know things"

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

You really must have no logic to not be able to link the quotation marks from the poster I quoted from almost directly above my post. Sorry, it's pretty straight forward to read every post including the parts where I actually quote the person I was referring to. Your sarcasm detector is either not working or sarcasm doesn't exist on the internet.


This mechanism (if u wanna call it that) is very appealing to me, but i cannot stand doing poor damage and imo the runepriests dont look as cool as most of the other careers in WAR do. BUT ! the spells he casts look very cool though.

If the main reason you don't want to play a Runepriest is not being able to deal good damage, then healing classes in general shouldn't be among the classes you would want to look at. If you do decide to play one, more power to you and much luck. :o

Being a healer equates to...healing. Being a tank equates to tanking, while this does gravitate away and can do so successfully--you should be doing the job your class was designed to do. That's my view, not saying it's right or wrong for any game but it sure has worked in the past. :-|

P.S. - It's solely. :p

[porcu12345]

You really must have no logic to not be able to link the quotation marks from the poster I quoted from almost directly above my post. Sorry, it's pretty straight forward to read every post including the parts where I actually quote the person I was referring to. Your sarcasm detector is either not working or sarcasm doesn't exist on the internet.

Where the hell does logic come in to it? Stop being a . I chose not to use the quotation marks because i had to go to work and i was in a hurry.

[Drav3n]

Where the hell does logic come in to it? Stop being a . I chose not to use the quotation marks because i had to go to work and i was in a hurry.

Sorry, you're stupid. I'm done if you seriously can't slow down and read posts intelligently.

1) I never addressed you until you posted to me.
2) One of my posts was exactly what someone directly above me said, which is why I put quotations on it.
3) I gave you hints so that you could go back and read my posts and try to figure out who I was referring to, but instead of doing that you came and attacked me more.
4) Logic comes into play when you can link one post to another, which you obviously can't.

Now, let me make it plain and simple for you since it's obviously too hard and I'm so much of a .

Unless you are in the beta, I would like to know how you know these things. Just because dots can be dispelled in other games doesn't mean they can in this game.

Additionally, dots may or may not be easier to heal through. Firstly, not everyone will have heals available. Without a healer, a dot is a great form of dps. Secondly, they almost always have a higher damage per mana/ap amount meaning they grow more effective the longer the fight. Thirdly, if you cast a dot you are doing constant dps which may be high dps to boot while you are casting other spells such as cc spells. Lastly, the cast time is important too. If dots are instant and dd's are cast, they will be vastly superior in a variety of situations.

Next time you make this kind of statement try "I don't like DoTs in WOW at all. Thier implementation made them inferior forms of damage due to...." or simply "I am a disgruntled WOW warlock/shadow priest".

"Unless you are in beta, I would like to know how you know these things."

Take your own advice and chill, it's all speculation here.

Unless I'm mistaken, the poster's user name was Vyker and not porcu12345. Lay off.

[porcu12345]

Sorry, you're stupid. I'm done if you seriously can't slow down and read posts intelligently.

1) I never addressed you until you posted to me.
2) One of my posts was exactly what someone directly above me said, which is why I put quotations on it.
3) I gave you hints so that you could go back and read my posts and try to figure out who I was referring to, but instead of doing that you came and attacked me more.
4) Logic comes into play when you can link one post to another, which you obviously can't.

Now, let me make it plain and simple for you since it's obviously too hard and I'm so much of a .





Unless I'm mistaken, the poster's user name was Vyker and not porcu12345. Lay off.

If you had read my last post you would understand that not all of us have time to scuttle through pages of forum posts. Also i'd like to state that i never "attacked" you.

You quoted his post and said that it's all speculation. When in truth a lot of it isn't speculation. You don't need to be in the beta to know what's going on in there. I Simpley answered by saying that you don't need to be in beta to know things. Then you take it all out of context. By the way, i'd just like to pass on some advice in the most friendly, non agressive way possible.

Get off your high horse and stop subtly bragging about your *superior intelligence*. Yes yes, Logic this, Logic that. You're stupid this, you're stupid that. If you arn't stupid and know logic oh so well, why not put it to good use instead of blabbing on forums of computer games.

[Drav3n]

Yet you have the time to continuously criticize me. At least make thought out arguments instead of claiming that I'm stuck-up, if you still haven't noticed you're the one who started to post against me--not the other way around.

I post either with solid information that has been released by devs, or with my own opinion if it is asked. If you misinterpret that to being a then so be it, I rather spread accurate information and seem like I'm on a high horse than fuel the fire of rumors that is so often said on these forums. The post I quoted from was all speculation, he doesn't know for sure that what he's saying is true; especially when the poster himself says:

Additionally, dots may or may not be easier to heal through.I mainly called him out on the hypocrisy, not only does he tell the other person that they shouldn't say anything unless they are certain, but he also starts to speculate himself. Then he goes even further and insults the poster by saying:

Next time you make this kind of statement try "I don't like DoTs in WOW at all. Thier implementation made them inferior forms of damage due to...." or simply "I am a disgruntled WOW warlock/shadow priest".That's far more insulting than anything I have ever posted on these forums.

As for your comment about babbling on about a computer game, for all you know I could be at work browsing forums in my down time. But, I'm glad you can stoop down to my level.

This conversation is finished, continue if you want but I'm only posting if the original topic comes to hand and I can offer some clear and correct information.

[Mutters]

The way I look at it, RvR is balanced around the Group. What you're going to get out of the Dwarfs is less DPS, more survivability, and great defense. Its been said that each of the dwarf classes is a step above the others in Defense (armor at least) and as such, enemies will be hard pressed to take down Dwarf groups. I would give up DPS any day to know that my healer is solid, survivable, and able to stick it out in the dirty defensive grind.

Of course, I played a WoW Druid, so every fight averaged 4-5 minutes for me. I enjoy the slow and steady, strategy, tactic and grind playstyle, and I think most Dwarfs this will appeal to. Most little kids would rather play a "OOH BIG NUBMERZ" glass cannon DPS class.

Which is fine for me. Leave us Dwarfs to our trench warfare.

Mutters