Rock Paper Tweezers

[Karas]

I was wondering ... where do you see the Disciple in the Rock Paper Scissors game ?

Tank > Melle Dps
Melle Dps > Range Dps
Range Dps > Tank

thats the standard

now add range support (eg sham) and melle support (Eg disciple)

my thoughts:

Range Support > Tank (and maybe Range Dps .. healing to outlast em)
melle support > Melle dps (again maybe Range Dps ... closing on them and dropping them as they got low life / defence)

your thoughts ?

[The Penguin Hunter]

The Disciple is a Support/Healer Archtype wich means in the R-P-S system he is weak to the Range and Melee DPS Archtype

I suggest you watch the Archtype podcast

[Ganymed]

theres a similar topic over here http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26151.

[Karas]

I've seen the podcast, but that one is quite general.

There is a fundamental difference in most support classes, and i think this affects the R P S mechanics.

The reasoning i was using was ... (again shaman and disciple examples)

Shaman has nuker mechanic so it inherits some of the inclination to best tanks ... range magic damage with enough healing power to keep yourself alive. Weak against mellee dps as they have low armor and longer cast heals (melle dps will have interupts)

The Disciple on the other hand doesn't have the joy that is range, but he does have heavy armor, physical damage, hots, dots ... and this makes him better sutied when dealing with mellee dps than a shaman would.
Range dps could still kite him though, and tanks can take the damage that he will put out.

I saw the other thread ... i wanted something more specific thanks for the link though

[Xxpect]

In the Archetype podcast he also wrapped things up by saying "it is important to remember, these archetypes are basic guidelines that we use and within each career there will be a great deal of variety and specialization"

Some evidence that supports this diversity within the archetypes is Mythics career descriptions. Zealots -Essentially unarmored, in heavy robes and other ritual vestments and regalia. Shaman-Lightly armored in tattered goblin robes. Runepriest-Well armored in medium, rune-inscribed armor. Warrior Priest-Moderately armored with breast plate worn over a long robe and vestments of faith. The Archetype podcast says healers have medium armor. An archetype is a generalization which allows for some variation from the general model, whereas a career is more specific.

Back on topic. I think the Disciple and Warrior Priest will most likely be weak to magic and strong against melee, and the other healer/support careers will probably be the opposite. My opinion is based on the fact that the WP and Disciple have to be in melee to be most effective and therefore need to have decent survivability while in melee. This is speculation, of course.

[The Penguin Hunter]

xpect, while the podcast was indeed general, it still pertains to the classes and actualy gives sense to balance, since the devs claim to balance by archtype.

Also mind you that what you were referenceing applies ONLY to the look of the class and not the actual armor count

[damsel]

we also need to remember that the 6 members of a archtype need to be interchangeable. If one class is vastly superiour against a situaiton compared to any of its peers, then it is probably overpowered and needs to be balanced. This is of course not considering spec, as I predict all 6 members of a archtype will have 3 very similiar mastery trees.

Disciple's and Warrior Priest may be stronger against melee dps, but it, imho, can be as vast as many of the Melee healer fans are proposing. This will, that being vastly superiour against melee, imho, make them superiour healers in large encounters (50v50 etc) which is unbalanced, as well as PvE encounters.

[Corthan]

I was wondering ... where do you see the Disciple in the Rock Paper Scissors game ?

Tank > Melle Dps
Melle Dps > Range Dps
Range Dps > Tank

thats the standard

now add range support (eg sham) and melle support (Eg disciple)

my thoughts:

Range Support > Tank (and maybe Range Dps .. healing to outlast em)
melle support > Melle dps (again maybe Range Dps ... closing on them and dropping them as they got low life / defence)

your thoughts ?



...you pronounce it " Mell - EE" dont you. As opposed to the correct "May- Lay"

[i fart rainbows]

I was wondering ... where do you see the Disciple in the Rock Paper Scissors game ?

Tank > Melle Dps
Melle Dps > Range Dps
Range Dps > Tank

thats the standard

now add range support (eg sham) and melle support (Eg disciple)

my thoughts:

Range Support > Tank (and maybe Range Dps .. healing to outlast em)
melle support > Melle dps (again maybe Range Dps ... closing on them and dropping them as they got low life / defence)

your thoughts ?

Clearly there are some differences when you add in support (ie healing) with either melee or ranged abilities so don't listen to those who want to dumb it down to the archtype podcast.

However, it's primarily the support classes' skill set that will determine his strengths and weaknesses.

For example the Zealot has lots of anti-caster abilities and he's ranged support with fairly low damage and a single snare so I certainly don't see him as a tank killer. I mostly see him as grass for the melee dps mower.

[Biocide]

As far as the disciple's weak spot goes, I'd say it's probably ranged dps, particularly magic based. The reason being is the disciple will have to be at a decent melee dmg mitigation level and have a way to mitigate interuption, but will probably have lower magic resistance stats, and also be easily defeated if your enemy bypasses the melee mitigation.

[Llamazerker]

...you pronounce it " Mell - EE" dont you. As opposed to the correct "May- Lay"

i look at people funny when they prnounce it may-lay, i've always pronounced it me-lee.

[Xurré]

US pronunciation of "melee" (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/En-us-melee.ogg)


- Xurré

[Aelthurian Elthrai]

US pronunciation of "melee" (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/En-us-melee.ogg)

My French friend says it meh-lay, not may-lay, though I honestly don't really care either way. Does it actually matter? Of course, it does sound a lot sexier in a French accent. :mrgreen: