So.. no Drain Magic?

[Dastion]

The grab bag this month was extremely disappointing, all it did was strengthen my fears that the Archmage will play too much like the shaman rather than the Drain Magic using version I'd hoped for. Drain magic is such an integral part of Archmages that I can't believe they would have abandoned the concept, yet this is twice now when directly discussing their mechanic that they haven't made a single mention of it.

Edit: Just going to make a point for the mods so this doesn't get locked like the other thread refering to this grab bag question. This isn't at all about the Archmage being very similar to the Goblin Shaman, that's not bad at all. It's safe to assume warrior priest and disciple will be similar. But of course each class is going to have some key differences. The point of the thread is that the original mechanic was labeled as "Drain Magic", a very archmage fitting mechanic, and has now, apparently, been changed to "High Magic" that is built up by casting destructive spells efficiently and retaining some of the spent magic (i.e. the Archmage Career Overview). Nothing in the overview, or the grab bag question so much as hints that Drain Magic still exists as a way to build up your mechanic.

[Are'el]

I have no problem with them being similar. With 24 Classes, you're going to have some runover. And it does seem like they're making counterparts to most of the Classes on the opposite team. I honestly don't understand the "disappointment" some of you are expressing. What's the big deal about Drains? They're DoTs you need to channel...

Besides, the "Drain Magic" concept didn't really make sense in the context of this game. So, what if you faced a bunch of non magical enemies? Wouldn't that have gimped the Archmage? "Damnit, a Choppa! I can't cast wicked healz!"

[Salka Valka]

looks like the core mechanic is the same, so what.

[wellsy]

I have no problem with them being similar. With 24 Classes, you're going to have some runover. And it does seem like they're making counterparts to most of the Classes on the opposite team. I honestly don't understand the "disappointment" some of you are expressing. What's the big deal about Drains? They're DoTs you need to channel...

Besides, the "Drain Magic" concept didn't really make sense in the context of this game. So, what if you faced a bunch of non magical enemies? Wouldn't that have gimped the Archmage? "Damnit, a Choppa! I can't cast wicked healz!"

I think that since it was draining AP or something like that, then the mechanic would work against all PCs. And I don't think that it has been completely removed, but rather, put in as a spell, much like a heal or a DD.

[Kaeldor]

looks like the core mechanic is the same, so what.

The drain concept looked really interesting, and it's what makes high elf mages special in the TT. I find the Archmage without it much less appealing, then what was my first impression after Paul introduced the class. Might be just "so what" for you, but for me it's a reason to probalby not make an archmage my main.


Besides, the "Drain Magic" concept didn't really make sense in the context of this game. So, what if you faced a bunch of non magical enemies? Wouldn't that have gimped the Archmage? "Damnit, a Choppa! I can't cast wicked healz!"

Like Wellsy pointed out the concept was not really "magic" in the close sense but draining "chaos energy" (=AP), which all classes use.

[Dustandpolos]

I agree it would be a shame to lose drain magic as a mechanic; it was an interesting idea and very fitting for High Elves; while High Magic is fitting still, it is very vague and undescriptive. High Magic may be efficient, but it's iconic feature is draining.

The inclusion of non-magic users is a serious problem though. Squig herders, Black Orcs and Choppas never harness the winds of magic at all, and even a dampening of the Waaagh! energy would only slightly reduce their enthusiasm, which they'd instantly recover through more hitting. Witch Elves and Blackguard use no magic; indeed, being Malekith's personal boyguard Blackguards forswear magic permenently, being male. Even if some rogue sorcerers are tolerated even the smallest magical practice in his bodyguard would be crushed, given the prophecy. Witch Elves distain magic, being Temple of Khaine and banned by Morathai, so would actively welcome a reduction of magical energy.

So a drain magic mechanic couldn't be justified at all against 5/12 opponant classes; draining Chaos energy (which is magic) doesn't stop a witch elf gutting you or downing an elixir.

So probably Drain Magic as the main mechanic is out, High Magic in and it's a shame but necessary; best possible option. I'd like to see it as a few skills though, maybe even a mastery path; one possible ability could include a basic Drain Magic that instantly interrupts an enemy spell being cast and gives the mage the action points required to cast or converts any special energy used on the spell into High Magic. Alternatively there could be an ability called Nullstorm which is a PBAoE that prevents any enemy spells being cast within, say 30 ft of the archmage while he maintained it, and maybe stripped any lumina and spirit damage from attacks made within the area. Vaul's unmaking would be a drain magic spell too, temporarily (say for 60 secs) stripping a random piece of equipment worn by the target of all magical properties (base damage remains the same).

Abilties like this could allow this great idea to remain in the game, even though it can't be the main mechanic.

[Dastion]

I really do hope to see Drain Magic implemented in some way still. Going with the real Drain Magic the most logical effect would be something that weakens enemy magic. i.e., your heals do less, your damage does less, ect. and gives you some of your special mechanic in reward.

[Doc Lumbago]

Uhm the core mechanic is similar to the Shaman, yes
but that doesn´t mean Drain is off the table.
And the Drain will be ore likely to be an Action Point but just a magic Drain
because it would be useless against anything but a Destruction RDPS then

[aegir]

Drain magic: only usable on characters that use magic.
Drain the magic out of your target, decreasing their spell effectiveness* by 20% for 10 seconds. 50% of the AP that the character uses in the duration of the spell will be transferred to you as additional high magic. 15 second cooldown.
*effectiveness= reduces damage/healing done.

Life drain:
Drain the life out of your target, increasing AP cost of all their spells and abilities used by 10% for 10 seconds. while the spell lasts, high magic will be generated 10% faster.
15 sec cd

Drain of knowledge:
Drain the knowledge out of your target, interrupting spell casting and crowd control effects. You gain 10% more high magic for 5 seconds.
15 sec cd

Now all these kinds of drains will affect your high magic pool, and in this way you will still be draining. Alot. Ofcourse they can also add pure damaging drains etc. just speculating :)

[Gaazruk]

This news truely saddened me indeed, Drain Magic was what appealed to me the most about the Archmage.

[Chaoslizard]

I had almost decided to play a an Archmage and it was because of the Drain Magic mechanic. I liked the idea that he was the trump to the other casters. As such, shouldn't he be weaker against the non-magic using classes? I liked the idea that drain magic also seemed to be the only counter to the dark elf sorcerer who casts the most powerful spells at the start of a fight... but I suppose Mythic will change the dark elf mechanic as well.

hmm.. and I had wanted to play a dark elf sorcerer too...

[snapmaster]

for all you Archmage fans, there's a video (http://war.curse.com/videos/details/743/) that explains a little about how he will operate in game (specifically the first two minutes of the vid).

From what I get out of it, the archmage will be able to pull certain things from other characters and use them either against the other characters, or in a good way on teammates.

the example given in the video was that the archmage can pull WAAAGH from a shaman and use it to heal allies. (it was a little choppy, but i think this is what they said)
or pull action points from a non-magic user.

so if i understand it correctly, drain magic will be in the game, but not in the form any table top player will know it as.

[Dastion]

Little bit of old news there bud. We've all seen that video. The point of this thread is that at first, (i.e. that video and some others) they talked about the ability to drain magic, and in the most recent bits about the career (the overview and the grab bag), they make no mention of the drain magic mechanic and instead make him sound all too similar to the goblin shaman.

[snapmaster]

haha, serious? cause i just found it today.. :S
i just can't keep up..

i guess the op saying "This isn't at all about the Archmage being very similar to the Goblin Shaman" got me a little confused..

[Sneedd Sneakily]

Too bad they can't implement something similar to the DAOC Necromancer's ability to Power Tap but instead steal action points or something similar :P

[Foofmonger]

They probably still have drain spells, but they changed it from one of the core focuses of the class, to a couple abilities. Probably because they realized that the abilities worked perfectly, and they didn't need to base the class mechanics around them.

From a graphical standpoint. The "draining" aspect may still be in for many spells. From what we know, the way they refine the magic into better healing spells, is by "draining" something out of the targets when they nuke them. Thus, visually, when you cast a nuke on someone, you may see essence or whatever transfer from them to you.

[Blackmoon042]

Well, if they don't have drain spells, they may have some drain "effects" as an extra part of a spell. This is what I mean:

(from a recent chat)

*Ekredem* We know there is some mirroring of classes. How closely will classes be mirrored? Will the Dwarf Hammerer play exactly like the Orc Choppa?

[WAR]Gersh Mirroring goes so far as sharing a similar Mechanic, playstyle, and role.... We wanted to make sure if sombody liked the way a Glass cannon Bright wizard played (Big damage but I might blow my own head off) they would have a choice of the same on destruction. That being said the abilities are not the same Visually each Career is unique.. and in terms of function some abilities are closely related
[WAR]Gersh But rarely 100% Carbon copies
[WAR]Josh By "rarely" he means "never."
[WAR]Gersh most of the time we mix up things like Debuffs, effects and secondary effects across an entire realm
[WAR]Gersh so frequently you'll see similar stuff on one career mechanic and play style etc.. but a more close replica of a debuff or buff on another career
[WAR]Gersh entirely


I think draining may have some involvment in the Archmages' spells as "Debuffs, effects and secondary effects."

[Dastion]

When it comes to Disciples I saw a video on TTH that said that they have abilities that will debuff their enemy target and buff their friendly target, so I'm hoping that Archmages get something similar, the ability to say deal damage to an enemy and transfer the life to an ally. An AP transfer like that would actually be pretty awesome.