Screw stealth, I got skill!

[Zigaroma]

Well as we all know more then a few people want some for of stealth in the game like a inviso skill or something. Well I say screw that! When I used to play WoW ((only played for three months)) I was a hunter and I didn't need any stealth skills or super long rang to sneak up on people and take them out! I think this class can be a stealth class is the player has enough skill to play that way. Who's with me on this? Anyone.....

[PersonalRiot]

Me like da elf dat haz da gutz to come of da 'hrubz so me can chop dem.

On a side note, I agree. Stealth isn't really needed and honestly ye old tunnel vision during battle is enough for most RDPS to sneak around unnoticed.

[Zellgadess]

Imo stealth is not inline with the WAR gameplay. It's about armys/regements/units battling over land, there will be ambushes, surprise attacks. It's not about people sneaking about on the battle lines, if your RvRin' you will be in a group so whats the point in a single person in the group hiding?

[kamigorosh]

hmm seems like your baiting the few that actually played stealth like myself. To say it has no skill and only judging from wow seems a bit dumb to me. My main was an Inf (rogue) on daoc and its defiantly not easy mode. Its all about choosing your targets when you attack and how strong the enemy was. You don't jump a tank that is rr5 or over, you don't fight moc3 casters unless you were 100% sure you could pull it off.

Its not as easy as people seem to say, and I know their were nights where i died more then i killed :roll:

[Mirlin Misspell]

It is sad to see the stealth class get such a bad name from games like WOW. And for someone to suggest that a stealth character has no part of a army's battle over land just hasn't experienced a game that stealth has been implemented well in.

In daoc there were several moments, especially in old frontiers, where a stealther or two has taken out a strategic caster or two from the battle in order to break a stand off between two realms. Now "Taking out" doesn't even have to mean killing them, but backstabbing them and putting up a fight that distracts the player from holding back the oncoming army.

Stealth players also played a large part in keep takes/defenses. Being able to give the army bellow some breathing room by distracting players whom are trying to defend the keep from nside.

There is a place in WAR for stealthers, and it makes me sad I believe they have said stealthers are not in.

and for the record~ I'm a caster at heart. I'm not what people may refer to as "Players with no skill that just want an "I Win" button". Stealth characters have a place in this game, and I hope they get it.

[Talthanys]

Stealth in WoW allowed you the opener. That's all. With so many ways to break cc, only scrubs were hit with the 100-0 stunlock. Any PvPer worth anything would wait for the KS, trinket, or Blink, or Beast Within. Hell, healers (or anyone with decent resilience) can just wait it out while laughing at you. And this isn't even taking into account stealth detection, AoEs, bugged Vanish, etc.

Seriously, the effectiveness and importance of stealth in WoW PvP is vastly overrated, and the outdated, Pre-BC notion is squirming its ignorant way into future game discussions. In the highest end PvP, 5v5 where the game is reportedly more balanced, you barely see rogues. This is not coincidence.

I'm not for stealth in WAR, not because it is too powerful, but because the recipient class almost always gets chopped down in effectiveness to compensate for the perception of imbalance, not the reality.

[Vit]

Stealth could be implemented only in Scout path for SW.
Then it wouldn't be so attractive for fighters.

No opener, no stealth during fight..
Can attack after going out from stealth (like 10 seconds),
Can go into stealth if no enemies around (like 300 yards).

It means, weak Skirmish tree (short-bow attack during move), weak Assault tree (sword).

[Lord Tareq]

The main problem with stealth (the invisible one), is not that its effective for the one who uses it, but that it is annoying to the ones facing it. If I had to compare stealth to a single other ability, it would probably be fear (as seen in WoW). Just like fear, stealth removes control from those who face it, and that is the single reason both abilities are considered overpowered. You can't prepare for it, you often feel cheated from a kill, there are always people abusing it by 1-shotting people fighting pve mobs and low on health, etc..

Overall, my believe is that any pvp game is better off without stealth, although I could live with some sort of camouflage stealth that only works in woods/scrubs or only when you stand still, and doesn't turn you completely invisible but just makes you harder to detect. i.e. a more realistic stealth.

[Avathos]

Well as we all know more then a few people want some for of stealth in the game like a inviso skill or something. Well I say screw that! When I used to play WoW ((only played for three months)) I was a hunter and I didn't need any stealth skills or super long rang to sneak up on people and take them out! I think this class can be a stealth class is the player has enough skill to play that way. Who's with me on this? Anyone.....

LOL you were a HUNTER that sneak on people to them them out. Dude that does not even make sense. First of all a MEELE HUNTER is a crappy HUNTER second the only way you can own people that way is that you are GANKING noobs.

So in WAR you going to be a shadow warrior (CONFIRMED RANGED DPS) that sneaks on PPl and take them out in MEELE? Dude cya in the battle field. Dont worry I will deliver the news to your elf mother that her son has been bravely killed in meele combat

[Lord Tareq]

LOL you were a HUNTER that sneak on people to them them out. Dude that does not even make sense. First of all a MEELE HUNTER is a crappy HUNTER second the only way you can own people that way is that you are GANKING noobs.*grabs fire extinguisher*

I assume he ment sneaking up on people to shoot them from an unexpected angle without them knowing he was there.

[Avathos]

*grabs fire extinguisher*

I assume he ment sneaking up on people to shoot them from an unexpected angle without them knowing he was there.

Ok,
I guess I am confused with what "sneaking" is supposed to mean. I believe that sneaking is getting into MEELE range and attacking. RANGED combat is when you get close enough for your BOW (or spells to attack).
The reason I am upset with the OP (IN MY OPINION) he is advocating for an ability that actaully will hurt him as a SHADOW WARRIOR (RANGED). Of course he doesnt not want ppl sneaking on his back and meeleing the heck out of him. That will not work for selected class.

Rogue classes may have to relay in "sneak" attacks to gain the upper edge in combat. They MAY not be able to hold their own against PLATE and RANGED classes

My 2 cents

[ChosenOne]

Ok,
I guess I am confused with what "sneaking" is supposed to mean. I believe that sneaking is getting into MEELE range and attacking. RANGED combat is when you get close enough for your BOW (or spells to attack).
The reason I am upset with the OP (IN MY OPINION) he is advocating for an ability that actaully will hurt him as a SHADOW WARRIOR (RANGED). Of course he doesnt not want ppl sneaking on his back and meeleing the heck out of him. That will not work for selected class.

Rogue classes may have to relay in "sneak" attacks to gain the upper edge in combat. They MAY not be able to hold their own against PLATE and RANGED classes

My 2 cents

The problem is, when you use an invisible sneak to get to the ranged players and then use abilities to keep them from getting away, or moving, or farting, or doing anything then you are actually guilty of the same thing you claim the OP of wanting. Of having complete control without the other side having a chance.

Melee dps are givin TWO sprint abilities. Thats how they close the gap. The ranged has the ability to try and slow them or stop them somehow IF they can see them.

See how that works? Both sides have a chance.

[Mercer7]

Jackie Chan never had stealth and he could get out of any trouble.

[c_vadnais]

Jackie Chan never had stealth and he could get out of any trouble.

lawlz....very true, very true

[Avathos]

Jackie Chan never had stealth and he could get out of any trouble.


Cool, lets make a jackie chan MMO

[BowieHero]

hiding in trees and bushes > invisible in plain sight stealth

every class is a stealther.

[Vit]

So in WAR you going to be a shadow warrior (CONFIRMED RANGED DPS) that sneaks on PPl and take them out in MEELE? Dude cya in the battle field. Dont worry I will deliver the news to your elf mother that her son has been bravely killed in meele combat

And you think you are smarter then EA Mythic? So check description of Shadow Warrior, he can focus on Assault path (melee fight).

hiding in trees and bushes > invisible in plain sight stealth

every class is a stealther.

Yes, but some of them are better than others. I can't imagine Black Orc and Goblin use the same bushes to be in stealth with the same effect :)

[Foofmonger]

And you think you are smarter then EA Mythic? So check description of Shadow Warrior, he can focus on Assault path (melee fight).


Please go read the podcast for Shadow Warriors.

Even if you focus on the "melee" path, you need to use your bow, a lot. The only difference in playstyle is that you finish people up in melee, instead of trying to kite. You still need to use your bow 80% of the time.

[Vit]

Please go read the podcast for Shadow Warriors.

Even if you focus on the "melee" path, you need to use your bow, a lot. The only difference in playstyle is that you finish people up in melee, instead of trying to kite. You still need to use your bow 80% of the time.

How did you count that 80%? :)

[Foofmonger]

How did you count that 80%? :)

The podcast outlines it pretty well man.

[Vit]

The podcast outlines it pretty well man.

I just translated it to one of the national website/forum - haven't seen anything what proves it's 80% ;)

[Axxar]

Did you look at the podcast?

[Vit]

Did you look at the podcast?

Yes, but it was long time - I'll do it again then.. anyway, I misunderstood this sentence

Please go read the podcast for Shadow Warriors.

[c_vadnais]

Yes, but it was long time - I'll do it again then.. anyway, I misunderstood this sentence

in the shadow warrior podcast he describes the two paths as:

"I love my bow, im going to specialize in my bow, bow bow bow bow bow."

or

"I REALLY like my bow, but I want to do a little stabbing."

so while assault will mean better melee, you will in no way be up to par with melee DPSers. Which brings me to my own curiosity of how far into melee someone can spec without making it overpowered or pointless to get that far in the melee tree with a RDPS

[Vit]

in the shadow warrior podcast he describes the two paths as:

"I love my bow, im going to specialize in my bow, bow bow bow bow bow."

or

"I REALLY like my bow, but I want to do a little stabbing."

so while assault will mean better melee, you will in no way be up to par with melee DPSers. Which brings me to my own curiosity of how far into melee someone can spec without making it overpowered or pointless to get that far in the melee tree with a RDPS

True. It could be wasting of Assault path. And if Scout path gives you nothing interesting all SW will be Skirmish oriented.

[c_vadnais]

its safe to say that its going to be about 40/40/10 as far as percentages of shadow warriors and how they're mastered. A melee spec isn't going to be very popular with a ranged DPS class, so most people are either gonna go skirmish, scout, or an even balance of both. While Assault wont necessarily be worthless in my opinion, i dont see the use in using a ton of mastery points in the tree when you still wont be able to DPS in melee very well.

I know i intend to try out scout first, then skirmish and see how either works my own playstyle best. More than likely i'll go heavy scout for awhile since I enjoy focusing on the long range combat.

EDIT: In hindsight, though, assault may include some things that benefit ranged spec as well (like how the hunters range increased talent in WoW was in the survival tree)

[Vit]

Maybe they would have kind of chaaaaarge! skill - like WoW warrior. But it doesn't sound attractive for RDPS :) Maybe more snares to keep enemy close to the sword? :)

[c_vadnais]

Maybe they would have kind of chaaaaarge! skill - like WoW warrior. But it doesn't sound attractive for RDPS :)

EXTREMELY unlikely man lol. More than likely it'll be stuff like things to make your character more effective all around, in addition to melee skills being better. Things that come to mind for me are range increases, specializations in killing certain things (I could totally see a druchii-slayer type specialization that increased the damage you do to Dark Elves)

[Vit]

EXTREMELY unlikely man lol. More than likely it'll be stuff like things to make your character more effective all around, in addition to melee skills being better. Things that come to mind for me are range increases, specializations in killing certain things (I could totally see a druchii-slayer type specialization that increased the damage you do to Dark Elves)

That's rather for tactic slot I think..

[c_vadnais]

That's rather for tactic slot I think..

more likely than a charge for RDPS :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Vit]

more likely than a charge for RDPS :mrgreen::mrgreen:

They should get close to enemy - how else they could use Assault path?

They strike swiftly and noiselessly with deadly accurate volleys from their longbows, before charging forth to slay any survivors with a flurry of blades. :rolleyes:

[c_vadnais]

They should get close to enemy - how else they could use Assault path?

:rolleyes:

play a melee class then :p I know if i play a SW its cuz im gonna turn a Druchii into a pin cushion :mrgreen:

[Vit]

I will try to burn your forest then ;)

[ChosenOne]

If you are looking to close in then most likely best way to do that is a proper selection from skirmishing and assault. The skirmishing is the run and gun method of being able to move and fire. Im sure some of these are the kiting skills which could slow. So instead of running away while you do such, you run towards. Should basically act like the charge skill since they are slower then you, you can catch up with them While firing at them. So when you finally close in they wont be full health.

[Shadow_Warrior]

I'm glad there isn't stealth in WAR. And I say this as a former 50 Nightshade in DAOC and Rogue in WOW.

[Vit]

If you are looking to close in then most likely best way to do that is a proper selection from skirmishing and assault. The skirmishing is the run and gun method of being able to move and fire. Im sure some of these are the kiting skills which could slow. So instead of running away while you do such, you run towards. Should basically act like the charge skill since they are slower then you, you can catch up with them While firing at them. So when you finally close in they wont be full health.

If yes, then all paths can be interesting. Moreover probably combinations of them can be also pretty good.

[Kitsune]

I play a rogue in WoW myself and even I have to say it's cheap. When you're opponent never even has a chance to move the whole fight that seems rather lame. Plus while expert PVPers might be able to overcome stuff like that a casual PVPer is screwed. And that can make one say screw PVP all together and miss out on possible fun. I don't know how it is in other MMOs but in WoW it sucked. If WAR is gonna do any type of stealth it better not be any of this complete invisibility WoW did. It should be something involving actual skill to use. Or else RvR is gonna be filled with noobs thinking they're the cause they can go invisible and kill someone in one of the cheapest ways possible. Online gaming has way to many of those retards. If you've ever played Gears of War you know what I'm talking about. And no offense to the OP but saying you have skill then saying you're a hunter seems odd. Considering it's one of the most overpowered classes in the game along with warlocks. But you still had a good point about stealth.

[Illidar]

I think that stealth wouldnt be as bad if they made it to where the shadow warrior can only be in stealth if he is standing still and is in a forest area or some type of cover. That would make the whole idea of scouting alot better IMO.

[Velryn]

I look at it like this. WoW is aloud to have super invisa stealth because it is a PvE game that revolves around dungeons, and in a real dungeon it is quite possible to sneak around in the dark as you take out guards or whatever. WAR is a game that revolves around RvR, or of course PvP, and on a realistic battlefield, sneaking around and taking people out is not possible, but Hiding in bushes and ambushing and what not is.