Why Ironbreakers instead of another tank?

[Klippa]

What is it with Ironbreakers that makes you wanna play them instead of any of the other tank-archetypes? Do you have anything special with Ironbreakers that you really are looking forward too?

[Festo]

1. he is a dwarf
2. he has dwarf armor
3. he has a dwarf grudge
4. he is a dwarf.
5. he uses axes and hammers (screw swords)
6. he is a dwarf
7. they have dwarf personalities (hold a grudge for ever :D)
8. dwarf
9. dwarf
10. dwarf

[Drak]

Ironically, my reasons for choosing a Chosen aren't much different, just change 'is a dwarf' to 'isn't a dwarf'

[Dagoth]

He is a dwarf
He is a tank

I don't think I have any other reason.

[Akela]

When I do go Order (and sadly, for now I am forced to go Destruction, since all of my friends are Drizzt-obsessed freaks...Well, no, not really. Every one of them is going for a greenskins for "soccer hooligan" attitude. I am the unfortunate Disciple, their supporter).

But when I do go Order, It will be a dwarf. Probably Ironbreaker:

1) I like Forgotten Realms. Not for Drizzt, but Bruenor.
2) Population. Dwarves will be FEW!!
3) Simple, straight forward. None of that "Hidden Agenda" crap going on. Job do be done? Hammer until it is.
4) Out of practical reasons (Powergamer attitude developed over years. Short in PvP=Better. Hello, Luri!!)

[dutch_gamer]

The main reasons are that I am a fan of Dwarfs (I own a Dwarf army) and I have always liked the armor. What I really like about Ironbreaker's armor are the helmets. I am also in agreement that the plus of Dwarfs in general is that they don't use swords. Axes and hammers are very fitting of Dwarfs. As long as the Dwarf Ironbreaker is a very defensive oriented tank, it is certainly the class I will play (Enduring Mountain tactic in TT exist for a reason, it is Dwarfen nature to let the enemy come to you). I am not that interested in playing a more offensive oriented tank because I could care less about doing a lot of damage (otherwise I would be playing a melee DPS class).

[Xyphos]

The primary reason I chose an ironbreaker is speculation. We don't know for sure how each tank will be played, but we have allusion from Mythic.

From what I gather, Iron Breaker will be the most TANKISH tank. Will have the most armor, will usually use a shield, and is generally what I've dubbed a "death robot". It just appeals to me to be able to, in comparison to other tanks and in theory, live longer.

This is all opinion and speculation mind you. I just feel like Iron Breakers have a more tankish feel. Sword masters look like they should've been a DPS class, Knights of the Blazing Sun lore is awesome, but look goofy as heck (imo). I've never been a fan of Ork lore as a whole, so there not really my cup of tea. Chosen, I play Khorne in 40k, so I'd feel like I was betraying my patron god by going with another; plus the whole twisting idea sounds stupid to me. Finally Black Guards look quite awesome, but if I'm going to play an DE class it's a Disciple.

[Foofmonger]

Well, this is kinda OT I guess, since I'm going to be posting why I won't play an IB.

1. Its a dwarf.
2. Its an order class.
3. The mechanics seem underwhelming.
4. They don't look very appealing (graphics wise) to me.
5. They sound more like factory workers then an MMO class, Iron breakers? Shouldn't they be like working in the mines breaking iron?

Haha, just for fun, don't get all mad at me dwarfies.

[Lucrece]

1- I like female Dwarfs. They are actually believable as warriors with their muscular arms and frame. All the other females are prettied up, sacrificing realistic warriors physique and practicality to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

2- I like durable classes. All Dwarf careers are durable in comparison to other armies, but the Runepriest has laughable damage capability, and the Hammerer's weapon limitation will become boring after a while (I like axes). The Engineer is another class of interest.

3- I've always played ranged support or DPS; I'd like a fresh start, thus the Ironbreaker over the Engineer.

4- Has anyone seen the video of the low level female Dwarf IB with that humongous great axe? Utterly fascinating.

5- Dwarfs have a magnificent personality.

6- I like the Nordic feel of the race.

My only dislike of Dwarfs is:

1- No hot men for me to have as eye-candy.

[Joebonanza]

My original choice was engineer but I'm definitely considering playing as an Ironbreaker for these reasons:

1) Its a Dwarf
2) I love the look of them... armour, weapons and generally how they've been represented in the game.
3) I find playing a tank very appealing assuming that their roles will be meaningful and fun in WAR.
4) Dwarfs will be the least played race - I like being the underdog
5) From what I've seen so far the Dwarf areas look the best to me - another reason why I will playing as a Dwarf.

[Necrotoxin]

Ironbreakers are the coolest Order tank. KOTBS is well kinda lame, and Swordmaster is an elf.... thats all that has to be said, so the Ironbreaker gets my coolest Order tank award.

[Bhanqwa]

Allthough 1st career choice will still be Black Orc, I'm starting to get interested in this class because:

1: Suspected playstyle appeals to me, lot's of defense even compared to other tanks, with grudge making them potent on the offensive side aswell.
2: Dwarfs are sexeh!
3: Best possible race for roleplay as they have great lore, great humor and great personalities.
4: Braids & Beards.

[wellsy]

Ehem, Archmage here, and, after being pushed, pulled, shoved, threatened, cajoled, and threatened to be knighted rather clumsily by Festo's axe, here is why I am not an ironbreaker or a tank:

1 - I'm an elf
2 - Elves are better than Dwarfs (check sig)
3 - Archmagi pwn
4 - Festo is Dwarfy enough for 100 people
5 - There is NO FIFTH REASON!

Fin.

[The Penguin Hunter]

1- No hot men for me to have as eye-candy.

She doesn't like the beard..... elf lover :P

[Lucrece]

She doesn't like the beard..... elf lover :P

He doesn't like the beard, but I'm no elf-kissing runt! I dislike long hair except for a few cases, so I'm pretty happy with the Empire versions ;p.

[Festo]

He doesn't like the beard, but I'm no elf-kissing runt! I dislike long hair except for a few cases, so I'm pretty happy with the Empire versions ;p.

lol

the only thing i like about the elves is long hair

i have a hair fetish

(really i do)

but besides that i loathe elves

damn pansies

[The Penguin Hunter]

He doesn't like the beard, but I'm no elf-kissing runt! I dislike long hair except for a few cases, so I'm pretty happy with the Empire versions ;p.

Well you get some right you get some wrong.... I still say you're an elf lover :P

[Lucrece]

lol

the only thing i like about the elves is long hair

i have a hair fetish

(really i do)

but besides that i loathe elves

damn pansies

I like (like as in "oh, pretty", not "damn, that's hot") elves; but as an also fervent Dwarf fan, I have to pretend I don't.

[Lucrece]

Well you get some right you get some wrong.... I still say you're an elf lover :P

*Stutters*

N...N..No I don't!

*gets flustered as a result of being a bad liar*

[Fyaniz]

When I roll an Ironbreaker (which I will, just a matter of time, dunno what I'll make first), it'll be because they have that whole unbreachable wall quality to them. So many times (in tabletop) I've seen knights crash into a block of them and just break their lances on the gromril armour and shields. It's a lovely sight to see the owner of said knights pull his hair out. :p

Also, they're dwarfs. and maybe the females are quite hot... :oops:

[Dunhill]

My only dislike of Dwarfs is:

1- No hot men for me to have as eye-candy.

Awww, way to break a Dwarf's heart Lucrece :P

[Lucrece]

Awww, way to break a Dwarf's heart Lucrece :P

I'm sorry!:oops:

[The Penguin Hunter]

I'm sorry!:oops:


Liar :rolleyes:

Oh and I almost forgot... elf lover :P (yep, like a dwarf I wont let that die .. atleast not yet)

Now back to the topic... I think I might roll ironbreaker it really does depend on the final list of spells they get and how they play, I want something that can do decent damage in the manner that I want it to, slow and powerfull, I really don't care about survivability, I just want them to play in the way that's comfortable to me

[Lucrece]

Liar :rolleyes:

Oh and I almost forgot... elf lover :P (yep, like a dwarf I wont let that die .. atleast not yet)

Now back to the topic... I think I might roll ironbreaker it really does depend on the final list of spells they get and how they play, I want something that can do decent damage in the manner that I want it to, slow and powerfull, I really don't care about survivability, I just want them to play in the way that's comfortable to me

Words are cheap, you cowardly runt. You just make sure you don't get near my keep, or else I might just get the lucky chance to mete out some vengeance! ;p

[Yavvy]

Why I chose Ironbreaker?

1. Its a tank.
2. It can be female.
3. Dwarf women look awesome in WAR.
4. The great Dwarf lore of Warhammer.
5. Grudges, punishing my enemies for touching my friends.
6. Not having a big population.
7. Axes.
8. The look of their armor & weapons.
My only dislike of Dwarfs is:

1- No hot men for me to have as eye-candy.You just need to be able to appriciate a real beard ;) And if its that bad, you could always go visit the Empire, though why you'd want someone that tall and scrawny is beyond me.

[The Penguin Hunter]

4. The great Dwarf lore of Warhammer.



*note to self*... give all female Dwarfs hell come game launch becuase of Dwarf lore...

Step 1: assume that they are male dwarfs without beards..

Step 2: since male Dwarfs always have beards... assume they were spawned by chaos

Step 3: Since Dwarfs are resistant to Chaos assume that they are just very young Dwarfs..that like long hair because obviously there's no such thing as female Dwarfs >.>

Step 4: Realizing that they arn't beardlings, assume that they are some sort of elf/dwarf half breed spawn, because of the lack of beard...

Step 5: Remembering that such a thing cannot be concieved because of difference in species, finaly come to the conclusion that the Dwarf is actualy female.. as crazy as that sounds

Step 6: Laugh at female Dwarf for being out of her hold, when she should be in there bakeing and cleaning, and teaching the kids..

Step 7: Dig your own grave, however the whole thing was still worth it. :mrgreen:

[Vardelm]

Dwarf + 2H axe = happiness.

[Ninos]

Dwarf + 2H axe = happiness.What he said :D

[Lesane]

Because Iron Breakers from the vids I've seen looks to be one of the most effective RvR tanks. Grudge is just an evil mechanic :p

[Duerghaul]

Because they're Dwarfs.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
You still here?

[phluke]

Well, this is kinda OT I guess, since I'm going to be posting why I won't play an IB.

3. The mechanics seem underwhelming.

Haha, just for fun, don't get all mad at me dwarfies.

Must say that I was very anti-dwarf until I started looking into them. I will most likely go order because I think it will be the underpopulated side and I just can't stand being on an overpopulated army. And you can't say that the ironbreaker's mechanic looks under whelming, every one of these moves sounds useful.

http://warhammerinfo.com/c-ironbreaker.shtml

[Baradun]

Ehem, Archmage here, and, after being pushed, pulled, shoved, threatened, cajoled, and threatened to be knighted rather clumsily by Festo's axe, here is why I am not an ironbreaker or a tank:

1 - I'm an elf
2 - Elves are better than Dwarfs (check sig)
3 - Archmagi pwn
4 - Festo is Dwarfy enough for 100 people
5 - There is NO FIFTH REASON!



Never forget who holds the true Phoenix Crown.

[Axxar]

Because they're the coolest Order tank.

[luy22]

http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/newimage.asp?Size=A&Img=259475

Look at them.

Can you not see the EPIC?

[Sleepyhead]

I must be the black sheep among you; I'm rolling an Ironbreaker because from everything that I have seen and read, the IB will be the most powerful tank in the Order faction. The grudge mechanic has the potential to be very, very good in group and larger RvR - the only bit I'm interested in.

Getting more and more powerful attacks each time you or any of your group members is hit? Yes please.

[Xyphos]

I must be the black sheep among you; I'm rolling an Ironbreaker because from everything that I have seen and read, the IB will be the most powerful tank in the Order faction. The grudge mechanic has the potential to be very, very good in group and larger RvR - the only bit I'm interested in.

Getting more and more powerful attacks each time you or any of your group members is hit? Yes please.

I don't know about black sheep. It's just others have more reasons to want to make one then JUST that. I'm not saying one reason is better then another, I'm simply saying I'm sure the grudge mechanic at least plays some part in many peolpes choice, or simply affirms their choice by saying "You look awesome, AND you can take hits, AND you can hit like a truck right back! where's the negative!?"

[Warmaster tibs]

1.Because they are a freacking dwarf!!!
2.grudge seems like a very fun mechanic.

[Ungainly Robot]

It's all about the battleaxe, baby

[Saija Rii]

As you can see my main (Most likely), will be an elf swordmaster. I love elves, I love heroes, I love swordsmanship, I love Legolas, I love Haldir (Ten times better then Legoloas), I love Drizzt (High Elf at heart), and I love Star Wars (Proto-Jedi reference).

As far as the TT is concerned though, I like the dwarves, I like their lore, (Slayers, Josef Bugmen, Book of Grudges, bi-polar, etc.) and I am a very defencive player... If I go on the assualt I generally lose without back up... however I enjoy building up my defences and love the cries of anguish as the enemy comes to me to die. How polite of them, I didn't even have to move my pieces.

I plan on my alt, who will quite possibly always be viaing for 'main' status a dwarf IB, for reasons stated above, and because of the 'Grudge' system. Along with being a defencive player, I am also very protective, and it seems to me, that the 'Grudge' system will highten my ability to protect my friends.

And yes, my dwarf will cross social boundaries and marry a pretty female elf. :grin:
If he ain't 'dwarfy' enough for yah then he will have a little something to say involving a 'ammer and some kneecaps.

Note: A swarthy male dwarf, and an arrogant noble elf fell in love and got married. Their first born was the first human ever. Think about it, it makes sence. Humans are the 'in-between'.

Edited: For glaring typo.

[Vardelm]

...cross social boundaries and marry a pretty female elf. :grin:
Shave yer beard off while yer at it.

[Saija Rii]

Shave yer beard off while yer at it.

Meh, the durn'd thing always gets in the way anyways.

(Was joking by the way)

[Dagnabit]

1. Have to say the beard.
2. Swords are for those not strong enough to lift a hammer or axe.
3. Epicly decorated Gromril Armour and a beastly shield? Yes sir.
4. Grudge system.
5. I play a dwarf TT army.
6. Are able to take the pain and dish it right back out via number 4.
7. Will play a male but I like how the females look.
8. Can switch to 2h and smash people in the face.
9. He's a dwarf for Reorx's sake (Forgotten Realm's ftw btw).
10. Profit.

Edit: Typo

[Soulsmith]

1. Armour
2. Lore
3. Dwarf
4. I always do dwarf warriors
5. grudge system is awesome
6. dwarf

[Zacharius]

Dwarf...Nuff said

[Roargh Growler]

Beard
Beer
Beer in your Beard
Getting mad over beer
Stroking your beard
Stroking your beer

And you have cool armor (as all the tanks in this game seem to have)

[Arcton]

Several reasons.

In fantasy games, Dwarfs have always been the race that have interested me most. I'm not one for the elf types.

Secondly, I always play a heavily armored melee class. Axes are also my favorite weapons available in fantasy games, which Ironbreakers have access to, in both two and one handed forms.

I enjoy tanking, and what Mythic is doing with tanking in PvP I find extremely intriguing. I want to experiment with it, and if it lives up to my hopes, I will enjoy it. I'm still debating whether I'll follow the route of being a axe and shield oriented Ironbreaker, or perhaps opt for the higher damage potential of a two handed axe.

The grudge mechanic also seems pretty interesting.

[ChosenOne]

Figure this is the best place and thread to ask. Does the grudge mechanic just cover the ironbreakers groupmates or does it cover himself too?

Meaning if he is attacked will it build his grudge as well? Makes sense to me but as far as balancing it versus the hatred mechanic of the blackguard I am not sure if it would be balanced to let the ironbreaker build it from attacks on both him and his groupmates when the blackguard only builds it from attacks on himself supposedly.

[Arcton]

I think that it will build from the Ironbreaker getting hit, but at a significantly slower rate than on how friends.

For example, if someone in my part is hit for 100 damage or so, I might gain 20 grudge. However, if I was to be hit for 100 damage, I might gain 5 grudge. That's how I see it playing out, anyway.

[Lucrece]

Figure this is the best place and thread to ask. Does the grudge mechanic just cover the ironbreakers groupmates or does it cover himself too?

Meaning if he is attacked will it build his grudge as well? Makes sense to me but as far as balancing it versus the hatred mechanic of the blackguard I am not sure if it would be balanced to let the ironbreaker build it from attacks on both him and his groupmates when the blackguard only builds it from attacks on himself supposedly.

He gains grudge from attacks on him as well. Keep in mind that with recent Blackguard revelations, comparing their mechanics is not the best course to take. Ironbreakers are designed with anti-melee in mind, while Blackguards will be the Swordmaster's equivalent of the Destruction anti-caster tank. This could also mean that he has some group gimmick of his own concerning some form of magical enhancements and whatnot.

[Oddwin]

from what i have heard, iron breakers will use an energy bar system similar to WoW's rage bar. does this worry any of you that while your gear improves, the damage you take is going to be decreased so that your energy bar is going to reverse scale?

i know i want to be a tank, and i love dwarves, but i dont want to be stuck being at soloing mobs and getting ganked in pvp because of some energy system that scales inversely with gear.

[ChosenOne]

He gains grudge from attacks on him as well. Keep in mind that with recent Blackguard revelations, comparing their mechanics is not the best course to take. Ironbreakers are designed with anti-melee in mind, while Blackguards will be the Swordmaster's equivalent of the Destruction anti-caster tank. This could also mean that he has some group gimmick of his own concerning some form of magical enhancements and whatnot.


Well, I am still not completely sold that blackguards are only caster killers. If they build hatred from being hit then I would say it wouldnt be bad for them to get a melee dps to get on them. Heavy armor to mitigate the damage and lots of attacks on them to build hatred up quickly.

I think what they were saying is the blackguard can do a good amount of damage as a tank class and casters with their generally weak armor will take a lot of damage when the blackguard focuses on them. Thats about as deep as I see that comment made by the dev going.

[Insedeel]

from what i have heard, iron breakers will use an energy bar system similar to WoW's rage bar. does this worry any of you that while your gear improves, the damage you take is going to be decreased so that your energy bar is going to reverse scale?

i know i want to be a tank, and i love dwarves, but i dont want to be stuck being at soloing mobs and getting ganked in pvp because of some energy system that scales inversely with gear.

I think it'll scale just fine as you get better gear. Say you have 100 hps, and you get hit for 50 damage, it did 50% damage to you and say it generates 20 grudge for that damage. If you're higher level and you have 1000 hps and you get hit for 50 damage, at that point that 50 damage only took 5% of your health instead of 50% and it generates only 2 grudge. Of course it's going to take longer for you to generate 20 grudge, but you aren't gaining the grudge any different than when you had 100 health. You'll generate 20 grudge at 50% health in both situations.

Granted I don't know if that's exactly how the system works, but I'm sure to prevent issues like what you're concerned about, they probably have grudge generation based relative to the power of the attack to your max hitpoints. So if you lose 50% of your health from attacks at rank 1, or 50% of your health at rank 40, it'll generate the same amount of grudge.

Also, grudge isn't very similar to wow's rage system, the only similarity that I'v seen is that rage and grudge can both be generated via being attacked, but you don't gain grudge while attacking, and you don't expend your grudge when you use special attacks. Your attacks just become more effective, or stronger the more grudge you have, it doesn't take your grudge away to use abilities.

[Oddwin]

I think it'll scale just fine as you get better gear. Say you have 100 hps, and you get hit for 50 damage, it did 50% damage to you and say it generates 20 grudge for that damage. If you're higher level and you have 1000 hps and you get hit for 50 damage, at that point that 50 damage only took 5% of your health instead of 50% and it generates only 2 grudge. Of course it's going to take longer for you to generate 20 grudge, but you aren't gaining the grudge any different than when you had 100 health. You'll generate 20 grudge at 50% health in both situations.

Granted I don't know if that's exactly how the system works, but I'm sure to prevent issues like what you're concerned about, they probably have grudge generation based relative to the power of the attack to your max hitpoints. So if you lose 50% of your health from attacks at rank 1, or 50% of your health at rank 40, it'll generate the same amount of grudge.

Also, grudge isn't very similar to wow's rage system, the only similarity that I'v seen is that rage and grudge can both be generated via being attacked, but you don't gain grudge while attacking, and you don't expend your grudge when you use special attacks. Your attacks just become more effective, or stronger the more grudge you have, it doesn't take your grudge away to use abilities.

thanks for somewhat clarifying the way the grudge system works. but what you describe is even worse then i initially imagined.

lets make a hypothetical situation where theres a consumerable you want, and on average you have to kill 10 boars for one to drop. lets assume that with gear you gain health, avoidance, and your armor mitigates a higher percentage of damage. when you initially turn 40 hypothetically lets say you have around 1,000 health, 10% avoidance, and your armor mitigates 37% of physical damage. the mob hits for 100 damage if the target has 0 armor and swings every 2 seconds. so 90% of his swings, he'd hit you for 63 damage every swing every 2 seconds missing 10% of the time so you would take 28 damage per second on average. if 1 grudge was say 10% of your total health is taken, then you would gain 1 grudge roughly 3.57 seconds on average. now if later in the game you still need that consumerable but this time around you have 2,000 health, 25% avoidance, and your armor mitigates 50% of physical damage, he'd hit you for 38 damage every swing and 18 damage every second on average and it would take you 11.11 seconds on average to gain 1 grudge. even if its not like you say and its not a percentage of your total health, but instead is 1 grudge every 100 damage taken; you would still only get 1 grudge in 5.56 seconds on average while in the worse gear you would still get 1 grudge every 3.57 seconds. so grudge would scale inversely with gear and you would at least be far worse at farming then other classes if not worse then even your past self with farming depending on how much your tanking gear also increases your damage, which most likely isnt by much.

[ZeppelinJ0]

Helmetted beard holding a shield and hammer, occasionally mumbling and reeking of ale. This is why.

[Insedeel]

thanks for somewhat clarifying the way the grudge system works. but what you describe is even worse then i initially imagined.

lets make a hypothetical situation where theres a consumerable you want, and on average you have to kill 10 boars for one to drop. lets assume that with gear you gain health, avoidance, and your armor mitigates a higher percentage of damage. when you initially turn 40 hypothetically lets say you have around 1,000 health, 10% avoidance, and your armor mitigates 37% of physical damage. the mob hits for 100 damage if the target has 0 armor and swings every 2 seconds. so 90% of his swings, he'd hit you for 63 damage every swing every 2 seconds missing 10% of the time so you would take 28 damage per second on average. if 1 grudge was say 10% of your total health is taken, then you would gain 1 grudge roughly 3.57 seconds on average. now if later in the game you still need that consumerable but this time around you have 2,000 health, 25% avoidance, and your armor mitigates 50% of physical damage, he'd hit you for 38 damage every swing and 18 damage every second on average and it would take you 11.11 seconds on average to gain 1 grudge. even if its not like you say and its not a percentage of your total health, but instead is 1 grudge every 100 damage taken; you would still only get 1 grudge in 5.56 seconds on average while in the worse gear you would still get 1 grudge every 3.57 seconds. so grudge would scale inversely with gear and you would at least be far worse at farming then other classes if not worse then even your past self with farming depending on how much your tanking gear also increases your damage, which most likely isnt by much.


I just used those numbers for ease of the example. I'm sure gaining grudge is probably going to be faster than the example I gave, and I wouldn't be suprised if they're puting other formulas in place to possibly give grudge not only based on actual damage done to yourself or party members, but also other abilities that have non damage based negative effects on you, or your party members.

I do know that from the various websites out there that have given us info on their abilities from gamesday when people were able to play the game that there are abilities that actually give you more grudge for using them. So if you're a more defensively specced IB and when soloing you find that you just aren't getting hit enough to generate grudge very quickly, those abilities that generate grudge on use I believe are there mainly to help with that exact situation. This may help answer your concern better than my previous post.

I also feel that this game from what I've seen, almost every class (some more than others) are made to shine more in group settings over solo. Ironbreakers are most definitely one of the classes that is made to be the most effective being in a group with other people as they gain the "most" grudge when their allies are attacked over themselves being attacked. So I think that the IB will be a class that's definitely capable of being a solo class, but I don't think we can expect to be the king solo class of the game since the mechanics behind grudge make it most effective when party members are attacked.

[Oddwin]

I just used those numbers for ease of the example. I'm sure gaining grudge is probably going to be faster than the example I gave, and I wouldn't be suprised if they're puting other formulas in place to possibly give grudge not only based on actual damage done to yourself or party members, but also other abilities that have non damage based negative effects on you, or your party members.

I do know that from the various websites out there that have given us info on their abilities from gamesday when people were able to play the game that there are abilities that actually give you more grudge for using them. So if you're a more defensively specced IB and when soloing you find that you just aren't getting hit enough to generate grudge very quickly, those abilities that generate grudge on use I believe are there mainly to help with that exact situation. This may help answer your concern better than my previous post.

I also feel that this game from what I've seen, almost every class (some more than others) are made to shine more in group settings over solo. Ironbreakers are most definitely one of the classes that is made to be the most effective being in a group with other people as they gain the "most" grudge when their allies are attacked over themselves being attacked. So I think that the IB will be a class that's definitely capable of being a solo class, but I don't think we can expect to be the king solo class of the game since the mechanics behind grudge make it most effective when party members are attacked.

i know the numbers you listed were hypothetical, just like my numbers are hypothetical. but the point is that the whole grudge system scales inversely with gear. and no matter how popular i am, when i need to farm a mob for some consumerables or mats for consumerables, there are gonna be times when im not gonna be able to get help from others and am gonna have to solo it and theres gonna be at the very least a large majority of players with much lower gear then mine that would have alot easier time farming it because the grudge system scales inversely in those circumstances.

[Agregon]

i know the numbers you listed were hypothetical, just like my numbers are hypothetical. but the point is that the whole grudge system scales inversely with gear. and no matter how popular i am, when i need to farm a mob for some consumerables or mats for consumerables, there are gonna be times when im not gonna be able to get help from others and am gonna have to solo it and theres gonna be at the very least a large majority of players with much lower gear then mine that would have alot easier time farming it because the grudge system scales inversely in those circumstances.

And aswell does the total fighting length without resting, tho making you keep the grudge longer.

I don't think it will be remotly close to how rage works in wow, due to the fact that you don't spend your grudge, aswell as some abilitys generates grudge, i know about 2 shield specific skills that generates it, one is after a block the other is an aoe attack.

The biggest problem with wow rage system when it comes to generate rage from geting hited is just that the cost for the abilitys far outweights the generation from being hit by anything ells than an elite/boss depending on your gear. And players do way less damage than those bosses, atleast when it comes to physical damage (mainly due to resistance stacking gear).

[ZeppelinJ0]

I'm sure Mythic had considered the inverse returns on the grudge generating system, I'll bet there are measure in place so that grudge is based off a flat deduction from unmodified damage or something to that sort.

The "grudge" system does sound remarkably similar to that of WoW's Warriors, but I'm sure they took the time to flesh it out a bit more and hopefully we'll get to test out the results soon :D

[Lucrece]

Well, I am still not completely sold that blackguards are only caster killers. If they build hatred from being hit then I would say it wouldnt be bad for them to get a melee dps to get on them. Heavy armor to mitigate the damage and lots of attacks on them to build hatred up quickly.

I think what they were saying is the blackguard can do a good amount of damage as a tank class and casters with their generally weak armor will take a lot of damage when the blackguard focuses on them. Thats about as deep as I see that comment made by the dev going.

Melee DPS each gain a spec to fight heavily armored opponents; I wouldn't expect the HE Tank and Blackguard to fare too well against them. It has been said for the HE that physical damage mitigation is not his forte, rather magical mitigation. I'd expect something similar for its cousin race.

Keep in mind that all tanks have a 2H spec. Seeing as how mechanically tanks are said to be caster food based on melee proficiency, there must be something deeper to Blackguards that will make them bypass their archetypal disadvantage.

[ChosenOne]

Melee DPS each gain a spec to fight heavily armored opponents; I wouldn't expect the HE Tank and Blackguard to fare too well against them. It has been said for the HE that physical damage mitigation is not his forte, rather magical mitigation. I'd expect something similar for its cousin race.

Keep in mind that all tanks have a 2H spec. Seeing as how mechanically tanks are said to be caster food based on melee proficiency, there must be something deeper to Blackguards that will make them bypass their archetypal disadvantage.

Melee dps's "special spec" doesnt make them ultimate tank killers. The majority of their damage is still mitigated and the majority of the tanks damage on them isnt. That isnt going to change no matter what special tidbits tank classes and melee dps classes are given. What it will do is allow them to help take down tanks but I highly doubt its meant to throw off the balance.

Blackguards are the personal bodyguard of one of the strongest sorcerers alive. On top of that he is extremely paranoid about other male dark elf sorcerers. Pretty easy to assume his personal guards would be trained and taught certain "lessons" as to withstanding the power of sorcery and other magics. Whether this is displayed simply with resistances or with skills and abilities or perhaps a mixture of both, we wont know until we are told. Whatever it is though I hardly doubt they are turning the blackguard into melee dps targets.

Besides, where is this proof that swordmasters are weak against melee dps? From what I have seen its just the obvious. The swordmasters cut em up pretty good. We saw vids from a scenario of the elves. The swordmasters were cutting right through the witch elves. Witch elves using their jump back ability all over the place to get away from them.

Yes witch elves have very light armor but swordmasters can enchant their weapons so they do magical damage. That will bypass armor of the medium armor melee dps. From all I have seen I really dont get why you think melee dps are so damn powerful. Players of them really have to be smart and choose targets properly. Not just based on archetype but on the entire situation.


As far as ironbreakers go, only really saw the one video. Their mechanic, their armor, decent weaponry and their skills seem to make them appear ready to eat up melee dps left and right.

[Insedeel]

i know the numbers you listed were hypothetical, just like my numbers are hypothetical. but the point is that the whole grudge system scales inversely with gear. and no matter how popular i am, when i need to farm a mob for some consumerables or mats for consumerables, there are gonna be times when im not gonna be able to get help from others and am gonna have to solo it and theres gonna be at the very least a large majority of players with much lower gear then mine that would have alot easier time farming it because the grudge system scales inversely in those circumstances.

Like Agregon said, since an IB will have so many hps/defensive abilities at his disposal, it's going to take forever for you to actually get low on hps which will allow you to continue killing faster and faster until you have a full grudge bar, and it'll be even more effective than WoW's Warriors in the sense that you won't use your grudge for abilities as you move from mob to mob, so you just become stronger and stronger the more and more mobs you kill until eventually you'll need to rest since you'll be getting too low on hps to continue further. Again, IBs are not going to be the best pharming class. In every MMO there are some classes that are better at farming than others. Tanks often times aren't the best "farming" classes out there because of usually being lower on the DPS scale than other classes.

One thing I'd like to also mention is that Mythic has stated multiple times that they're doing everything they can to prevent and make sure farming something that a person never "needs" to do.

[Oddwin]

Like Agregonsaid, since an IB will have so many hps/defensive abilities at his disposal, it's going to take forever for you to actually get low on hps which will allow you to continue killing faster and faster until you have a full grudge bar, and it'll be even more effective than WoW's Warriors in the sense that you won't use your grudge for abilities as you move from mob to mob, so you just become stronger and stronger the more and more mobs you kill until eventually you'll need to rest since you'll be getting too low on hps to continue further. Again, IBs are not going to be the best pharming class. In every MMO there are some classes that are better at farming than others. Tanks often times aren't the best "farming" classes out there because of usually being lower on the DPS scale than other classes.

One thing I'd like to also mention is that Mythic has stated multiple times that they're doing everything they can to prevent and make sure farming something that a person never "needs" to do.

ok, thanks for the feedback. sorry if i sounded kinda rude part way through, i was alittle frustrated that i didnt think i was gettting my point through.

[Agregon]

ok, thanks for the feedback. sorry if i sounded kinda rude part way through, i was alittle frustrated that i didnt think i was gettting my point through.

No hard feelings taken from my part, don't know about the others tho, but well i am happy that i could ease a bit of your frustration, as it is an anderstandable how frustrating that concern is when you look at where you are form comming from (aka wow). I know that a lot of the warrior mecanics in wow where just blant random numbers thrown from the devs without even checking it twice (and well not to attack wow in any mather, but there was, and still is a lot of mecanics that just doesn't do the job corectly, and yes i have done a lot of calculation on those, decent game at first but din't do the job for me in the longer run). I could make you a list of many things that din't work so well for wow, but worked great for other games, but well that just ain't worth the time nor is it worth bashing wow for all those faulty mecanics as i don't care about that game anymore.

On the other hand i feel i sence of need to enlight people when they are comparing every game to it, without thinking that the devs might just have
made some wrong turn over just the thing they are bringing up.

Conclusion, don't fear that all the mistakes made in wow will be repeaten, instead just ask your question heads on and it will probably be responded anyway, you might find out that there is information out there that might illiminate/reduce your concern about it that you just havn't found out yet.

[Oddwin]

No hard feelings taken from my part, don't know about the others tho, but well i am happy that i could ease a bit of your frustration, as it is an anderstandable how frustrating that concern is when you look at where you are form comming from (aka wow). I know that a lot of the warrior mecanics in wow where just blant random numbers thrown from the devs without even checking it twice (and well not to attack wow in any mather, but there was, and still is a lot of mecanics that just doesn't do the job corectly, and yes i have done a lot of calculation on those, decent game at first but din't do the job for me in the longer run). I could make you a list of many things that din't work so well for wow, but worked great for other games, but well that just ain't worth the time nor is it worth bashing wow for all those faulty mecanics as i don't care about that game anymore.

On the other hand i feel i sence of need to enlight people when they are comparing every game to it, without thinking that the devs might just have
made some wrong turn over just the thing they are bringing up.

Conclusion, don't fear that all the mistakes made in wow will be repeaten, instead just ask your question heads on and it will probably be responded anyway, you might find out that there is information out there that might illiminate/reduce your concern about it that you just havn't found out yet.

i was really only trying to compare it to wow at the beginning so that i wouldnt have to go to far into detail over the problem. WoW isnt the first or last MMORPG i've ever played, but a common MMORPG that most people can relate to when you use it as a comparison. something that increases your damage by scaling with damage done to you just didnt sound like a good idea for a tank; although it doesnt sound quite as bad as i originally suspected, although ironbreakers probably wont be my first charecter just because i want to see how it works out.

[Agregon]

i was really only trying to compare it to wow at the beginning so that i wouldnt have to go to far into detail over the problem. WoW isnt the first or last MMORPG i've ever played, but a common MMORPG that most people can relate to when you use it as a comparison. something that increases your damage by scaling with damage done to you just didnt sound like a good idea for a tank; although it doesnt sound quite as bad as i originally suspected, although ironbreakers probably wont be my first charecter just because i want to see how it works out.

Ahhh well, i seem to have been missanderstand you a tad, i did get the impression of a ex-wow fanboy, so i just had to go a bit deeper on some of the flaws to pin-point that just because blizz made such mistake doesn't mean that mythic is going to do them aswell. As far all goes mythic is also going to do thier mistakes, i just cross my fingers that they are minor and not borderline gamebraking as many of the ones i have fined in wow.

And btw the Ironbreaker also get grudge from the damage done to allies, meaning that it won't mather to much if you ignore him, you will make him stronger and that is without including grudge increasing abilitys.

[Walrus]

Ironbreakers are more literally tanks. They just need cannons.

[Hrafn]

My alt will most likely be an Ironbreaker.

Why roll a Dwarf Tank while at the same time playing a Elven one? because they will play very differently I think and I've always liked melee.

The Swordmaster seems to be a "I shall make fun of your clumsy style before killing you" type tank, while the Ironbreaker is more of the "Is that your best shot?" style tank.

[craptacular]

well i believe ironbreaker is, in theory, the toughest tank order has to offer, at least versus PHYSICAL damage. swordmasters are focused more on damage and anti-magic tanking, and knights of the sun are more of tactical buffing commanders (this is merely GENERALLY speaking. they can all tank, ofc)

i also really like how it's a dwarf. the tough, immovable idea goes well with them, whereas it's not as good with humans or those skinny tall poofy HEs

^ the last sentence in Hrafn's post is also a good way of explaining it :D

[Valkyron]

My primary alt will probably be an Ironbreaker because I like tanks and have a strange affinity for dwarves, probably because my main during my 3 year stint with WoW was of the finest dwarven stock, breed, and heritage. :rolleyes: However, my fondness of dwarves honestly started long before that, way back when... :cool:

[Lucrece]

well i believe ironbreaker is, in theory, the toughest tank order has to offer, at least versus PHYSICAL damage. swordmasters are focused more on damage and anti-magic tanking, and knights of the sun are more of tactical buffing commanders (this is merely GENERALLY speaking. they can all tank, ofc)

i also really like how it's a dwarf. the tough, immovable idea goes well with them, whereas it's not as good with humans or those skinny tall *poofy * HEs

^ the last sentence in Hrafn's post is also a good way of explaining it :D

In your future posts, try to word descriptions in a far less bigoted, derogatory, and offensive manner, please.

With that said, I agree with your theory.

[Koojo]

I was seriously considering making an Ironbreaker as my Order alt. I mean, I really don't see the issue with them at all. What ISN'T special about them? They're the toughest tanks in the game; that's badass.

[Rhurik]

Ironbreakers are beautiful.

I cant wait to pvp tank.

Ironbreaker is the coolest class.

I love how I can hardly see skin on Ironbreakers, its all armor.

Dwarves are the coolest.

The idea of dealing more damage the more damage gets done to me and my friends makes pvp tanking so cool.

Being a walking piece of armor with a big thing of hair coming out of the bottom of my helmet is so cool.

[Fabrizioxxx]

Well, he's the toughest tank in the Order, plus he's a dwarf (i have a dwarf army).
Plus, two-handed axes ftw.

[strike1989]

Ill do it as an alt after my chosen.

They just seem they most tanky tank out of all the tanks.

I am tank boy. Me like being tank. Me tank. Me tank tank tank. Me have skin of steel.

[Varaki]

Ironbreakers are locomotives feuled by burnin piles of grudge. On defense they are a boulder in a mountain pass - push on it long enough and it is going to roll backwards onto you! On the assault they are like rolling... rolling and EXPLODING! boulders. It would deffinately be in the best interest of any urk, grobi, dark elgi or otherwise that doesnt stand at dwarf height with a mighty beard or braid to get out of the way.

Ironbreakers are the bulwark of the Dwarfen body. Never underestimate the Dwarfs!

[Bran KolBarag]

Dwarf.

Tank.

What more is there to say?

[Murder]

If I ever roll a tank, it will be an Ironbreaker. They seem to be the toughest tank with coolest mechanic, plus they are dwarves.

In your future posts, try to word descriptions in a far less bigoted, derogatory, and offensive manner, please.
I like his imagery, don't you censor him.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

1. he is a dwarf
2. he has dwarf armor
3. he has a dwarf grudge
4. he is a dwarf.
5. he uses axes and hammers (screw swords)
6. he is a dwarf
7. they have dwarf personalities (hold a grudge for ever :D)
8. dwarf
9. dwarf
10. dwarf
Your list seems very short.

[Stiltzkin]

As much as I don't want to support rolling a stuntie... Knight of the Blazing Sun is the #1 dumbest looking class in the game. I take every opportunity I can to say that because I feel strongly about it. Knight of the Blazing Sun is the #1 dumbest looking class in the game. ok... and the other option is a tank that is not really a tank... they are finesse instead of shields and armor... and they're high elves, which is just as bad as a stuntie so you can't even say they are a better race.

[Sigmarsbestfriend]

I think the Dwarfs would have to be in my top 3 fave races, mainly cause of the fluff and lore (ive always thought about getting a tt dwarf army) and the Ironbreakers were always my favourite dwarf models before i even knew WAR was coming out.

My secondary class will probably be an Ironbreaker, its just that warrior priests are cooler (just!).

[Lucrece]

I like his imagery, don't you censor him.

Learn your terminology; I was referring to his diction, not imagery.

[mrchocotaco]

1. Dwarf
2. Tank
3. Long Scruffy Beards!

[lnquisitor]

In your future posts, try to word descriptions in a far less bigoted, derogatory, and offensive manner, please.

Heheh If High Elves being called Poofy and , not the players but the but the actual HE, upsets you then you better grow a thicker skin.
I mean, when the game makes themselves, at all levels, routinely refer to HE as, "Pansies" (or worse behind closed doors) you got problems.

As I have said in another post, the source of Dark Elf hatred for HE has nothing to do with Ulthuane.
It is because they are embarrassed by them and choose to solve the problem by killing them all so finally Elves can be cool.

[Wazdakka]

1- No hot men for me to have as eye-candy.

You are so wrong. They are all muscle under there, and have, well, let's say huge axes.

[Lucrece]

Heheh If High Elves being called Poofy and , not the players but the but the actual HE, upsets you then you better grow a thicker skin.
I mean, when the game makes themselves, at all levels, routinely refer to HE as, "Pansies" (or worse behind closed doors) you got problems.

As I have said in another post, the source of Dark Elf hatred for HE has nothing to do with Ulthuane.
It is because they are embarrassed by them and choose to solve the problem by killing them all so finally Elves can be cool.

*sigh* Read my post again.

I was bothered by the word "poof", a homophobic slur. Using as an insult is also homophobic. The policies in this website prohibit such kinds of talk. Rather than be too rough and report him for infraction, I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him what he should refrain from doing at other times.

And before you go telling me I need to grow thicker skin, I want to see you going and telling a black man to not be offended by the use of the word "ni.gger/negro/colored", or telling a woman not to be offended when someone refers to them as a "c.unt".

You are so wrong. They are all muscle under there, and have, well, let's say huge axes.

Sorry, I don't do midget bears.

[seirios]

orcs are stupid and barbaric
chaos makes me wanna bang my head onto a wall
black guard is way too much. even for a fantasy game. jesus look at that helm
humans are boring.. their humans cmon :\
HEs are cliche, ok their the best.. so wheres the challenge jk ;p
i like dwarves, i like braided beards and ale! tho the two of them combined are a pain when drinking =P

[Stiltzkin]

or telling a woman not to be offended when someone refers to them as a "c.unt".

C.unt used to mean "strong woman" funny how it ends up being considered an insult. Using as an insult is as normal as using lame as an insult. We're not saying homosexuals need to be beaten to a bloody pulp, it's just a common colloquialism. Get used to it. People will be calling things , lame and stupid for a VERY long time. Don't take away my rights to free speech in defense of someone who is not getting hurt. If someone persecutes a person for being then you defend them but using in a sentence isn't hurting anyone. Get over it. I really hate overly sensitive politically correct people telling me what I can say. If he said elves were lame I'm sure nobody would've said "Hey! don't insult handicapped people like that!" :mad:

[Lucrece]

C.unt used to mean "strong woman" funny how it ends up being considered an insult. Using as an insult is as normal as using lame as an insult. We're not saying homosexuals need to be beaten to a bloody pulp, it's just a common colloquialism. Get used to it. People will be calling things , lame and stupid for a VERY long time. Don't take away my rights to free speech in defense of someone who is not getting hurt. If someone persecutes a person for being then you defend them but using in a sentence isn't hurting anyone. Get over it. I really hate overly sensitive politically correct people telling me what I can say. If he said elves were lame I'm sure nobody would've said "Hey! don't insult handicapped people like that!" :mad:

It's a common colloquialism based on ingrained homophobia in our society.Using the term pejoratively perpetuates negative perspectives on being "", which translates into persecution. Of course, the ignorant tend to get defensive over this and call it "Big Brother Political Correctness Crap". Additionally, you are justifying your argument with an is-ought fallacy; you might want to change that. Even more perplexing is this whole argument over the use of the word "" in a homophobic manner, considering the exchange referred to the derogatory word "poof", which is the equivalent to sissy/.

Furthermore, your example of handicapped won't fly. Say that near a mother who has a handicapped son or the son himself, and be sure you'll get an earful.

And free speech is not a right in this forum, fyi. We could always take this conversation up to the mods for judgement, if you desire. Just to get things cleared up on the application of forum policy that prohibits derogatory speech toward suspect classes, sexual orientation being one of them.

[|MA|Kroy]

Why Ironbreaker instead of another tank?

They are dwarfs.

ale
gold
grudge

[Vardelm]

This thread is now poofy.

[Lucrece]

This thread is now poofy.

You fail at incendiary posts; no 2-handed axes for you!

[Manijin]

Lucrece, I know you asked us very politely not to tell you to grow some thicker skin, but... well, you see where I'm going with this. Since when did Poof become a derogatory term? I was under the impression that poofy was something akin to fluffy, which I would DEFINITELY say the High Elves are. Honestly, you're probably just looking at it a little too harshly. Plus, homophobia? Please. Just because we use the word as an insult doesn't mean it stems from homophobia. lol

On topic, I'm gonna say something about why I WON'T be playing a dwarf ironbreaker (similar to a previous post):

1. Dwarf
2. I think the armor actually looks ridiculous.
3. While I generally love dwarven culture, The Orcs have got it going on.
5. Waaagh!

[Vardelm]

You fail at incendiary posts; no 2-handed axes for you!
Then apparently my post was poofy as well.

[Lucrece]

Then apparently my post was poofy as well.

That would mean it had some semblance of fabulousness in it, which it did not ;p.

Lucrece, I know you asked us very politely not to tell you to grow some thicker skin, but... well, you see where I'm going with this. Since when did Poof become a derogatory term? I was under the impression that poofy was something akin to fluffy, which I would DEFINITELY say the High Elves are. Honestly, you're probably just looking at it a little too harshly. Plus, homophobia? Please. Just because we use the word as an insult doesn't mean it stems from homophobia. lol

On topic, I'm gonna say something about why I WON'T be playing a dwarf ironbreaker (similar to a previous post):

1. Dwarf
2. I think the armor actually looks ridiculous.
3. While I generally love dwarven culture, The Orcs have got it going on.
5. Waaagh!

That's because you're probably American. Poof is used as an equivalent of "queer" more often in England. So, replacing a term that describes a socially oppressed minority with a negative adjective is not of a homophobic origin, you say? Well, then, do you care to tell me why this word got chosen in particular to describe something stupid or bad, when there are plenty available to already describe something derisively, many of which do not represent a despised minority?

And Dwarfen armor looking ridiculous? I'll go ahead an imitate you with a an extra special "Puh-leeze!" Of course, it must be that Orcish inclination for tacky scraps you call armor that blinds you from the greatness that are Dwarfen goods.

[Lucrece]

*I edited for redundancy.

[Stiltzkin]

do you care to tell me why this word got chosen in particular to describe something stupid or bad
Just because a person doesn't like effeminate characters doesn't mean it is bad. The definition I saw when I looked up poof was:
An effeminate male.
If someone thinks this applies then why wouldn't they call a High elf a poof? And 2 posts later you say poof entails some semblance of fabulousness... Why did you say it is an insult then later say it's a compliment Vardelm isn't worthy of. Some people think being effeminate is a negative thing some people don't. I think people should be able to use the word when they think it applies.

On another note my last roommate before I got married was (lived with him for 2 years) and my best friend is (friends for 5 years). They both regularly say things are when they think it applies. So homophobia can't be the only motivation for using the term, considering they're not scared of themselves. Yes we're American.

[Lucrece]

Just because a person doesn't like effeminate characters doesn't mean it is bad. The definition I saw when I looked up poof was:
An effeminate male.
If someone thinks this applies then why wouldn't they call a High elf a poof? And 2 posts later you say poof entails some semblance of fabulousness... Why did you say it is an insult then later say it's a compliment Vardelm isn't worthy of. Some people think being effeminate is a negative thing some people don't. I think people should be able to use the word when they think it applies.

On another note my last roommate before I got married was (lived with him for 2 years) and my best friend is (friends for 5 years). They both regularly say things are when they think it applies. So homophobia can't be the only motivation for using the term, considering they're not scared of themselves. Yes we're American.


First, you missed the context. That question you quoted referred to the word "", not "poof". Second, yes, it shows you're American. Go to any British boards and ask what a "poof" is.

Another question: When someone rips on another man for being effeminate, be earnest and tell me what you think the implication normally is. Don't be coy.

As for the "fabulousness" discussion, obviously we need a sarcasm-style of bolds, as it appears sarcasm flies right by people's heads in the internet. Vardelm was trying to provoke, to be a troll; why give him bait?

Finally, do remember that having friends does not rule out you being potentially prejudiced against homosexuality. Many people say they also have X minority friends whenever they make a statement that may come off as offensive. With that said: You know what? I believe you. I think you're a good guy. I also think you're ignorant (ignorant is not always an insult; it can also mean someone who's unaware of certain nuances), like your friends. Black people also used to use derogatory remarks concerning black people when conversing among themselves. You know why? Because there's this concept called conditioning. Our society constantly conditions us, and it just so happens that homophobia is conditioned to a level where it becomes a knee-jerk reaction. Do you really believe that all people who show acts of prejudice toward homosexuality are bad people, that they despise their friends or family members? Not necessarily. It's not always their fault, but rather the fault of the conditions they've been raised in. However, that doesn't exempt them from being educated on the issue whenever the situation presents itself.

P.S. Phobia is not only a fear; it can be a negative reaction of any sort. As for the topic, just go to any forum particularly dedicated to people, and ask them whether they find it offensive when any straight person goes and say "that's ". Go to any organization website, and e-mail them this question. I can assure you the answer will be annoyance. You know, after years of constant misrepresentation and oppression, being equated to something bad can get tiresome; it really drains you. Just think of anything you really identify by, and imagine people using that very thing that makes such an integral element of who you are as a negative description. I don't know how to convey the offensiveness any clearer to you; I suppose you'll only understand when you experience chronic degradation yourself. I really hope that this never comes across you; I don't wish the plight of our people on anyone, even the most bigoted human being.

[Hamar Jarnhnefi]

This thread has kind of gotten off topic, hasn't it?

Lets get back on track.

Why Ironbreakers above any other tank?

Because when you think of a tank you think of something solid able to take a pounding and still keep going with heavy armour.

Now yes, Black Orks fill that description quite well, but as Lucrece said their armour is just scrap metal.

Ironbreakers wear Gromril armour and the fact that they are short jus adds to the overall compact, solid as a rock feel for me. Thats why I wuld play an Ironbreaker above any other tank.

However, I'm not going to decide on whether I play a Hammerer or Ironbreaker until we see the updates on their Masteries and we can get a feel on how they will play.

[Lucrece]

This thread has kind of gotten off topic, hasn't it?

Lets get back on track.

Why Ironbreakers above any other tank?

Because when you think of a tank you think of something solid able to take a pounding and still keep going with heavy armour.

Now yes, Black Orks fill that description quite well, but as Lucrece said their armour is just scrap metal.

Ironbreakers wear Gromril armour and the fact that they are short jus adds to the overall compact, solid as a rock feel for me. Thats why I wuld play an Ironbreaker above any other tank.

However, I'm not going to decide on whether I play a Hammerer or Ironbreaker until we see the updates on their Masteries and we can get a feel on how they will play.

When I think of a tank, I think relentless. Beating? What beating? Those oversized fungi can't even muster a scar on the flawless defense that is Gromril armor backed by pure resolution >=D.

[Deathgrind]

Learn your terminology; I was referring to his diction, not imagery.
He uses diction to make imagery. Adjectives often work that way. Lose the sense of entitlement and stop being so self-righteous.

[Lucrece]

He uses diction to make imagery. Adjectives often work that way. Lose the sense of entitlement and stop being so self-righteous.

Nice try. The quoted poster implied that I had an issue with another poster's imagery. I corrected him.

How about you find something else to do besides resorting to meaningless, erroneous nitpicking that lacks a contribution to the topic?

[Deathgrind]

How about you find something else to do besides resorting to meaningless, erroneous nitpicking that lacks a contribution to the topic?
Kinda like you did when you nitpicked his diction?

And by kinda I mean exactly.

[Laz]

Sweet mother of pearl!!!

Someone told me there were Ironbreakers in here... I musta taken the wrong door... I seem to have stumbled into the Ladies Garden Club!

Smells kinda poofy in here if ya ask me........

[Æntertainment]

If i was to play on order?

The only order race i would play is Dwarf.

1: Beards
2: Ale
3: Alecarts
4: It's Hammer time!
5: Ironbreaker is the dwarf tanks.

so, ironbreaker is no. 1 order tank. also no. 2 and 3.

Not as cool as a black orc, but meh.

[Laz]

...Not as cool as a black orc, but meh.Ya know what I hate about Black Orcs? The way they stick to your boots after you stomp the snot out of em..... Took me half a day to clean the stink off mah boots last time...

However, as a public interest note, I did discover that Bugman's Extra Stout will strip Orc snot off just about anything in a blink... No charge for that......;)

[Lucrece]

Kinda like you did when you nitpicked his diction?

And by kinda I mean exactly.

Not "kinda". That's what I'm doing with your "kinda".

I contributed earlier to the thread, and I did so extensively. Tell me exactly what your noticeable contribution is. Tell me how in addition my nitpicking was pathetically mistaken or lacking particular relevance to the purposes of the WHA fora.

[Count Izreal]

Sweet mother of pearl!!!

Someone told me there were Ironbreakers in here... I musta taken the wrong door... I seem to have stumbled into the Ladies Garden Club!

Smells kinda poofy in here if ya ask me........

Lol, this guy has just owned you all.

[Lucrece]

Lol, this guy has just owned you all.

Perhaps. I really like the phrase "Sweet mother of pearl"; it reeks of Spongebob Squarepants-ness.

[Deathgrind]

Not "kinda". That's what I'm doing with your "kinda".

I contributed earlier to the thread, and I did so extensively. Tell me exactly what your noticeable contribution is. Tell me how in addition my nitpicking was pathetically mistaken or lacking particular relevance to the purposes of the WHA fora.
I don't care if you have a Nobel Prize in WHA posting; the post Murder quoted of yours was just nitpicking one word from a post and whining about it. And a line saying you agree, which if alone would be against the rules because it adds nothing

In your future posts, try to word descriptions in a far less bigoted, derogatory, and offensive manner, please.

With that said, I agree with your theory.

[Lucrece]

I don't care if you have a Nobel Prize in WHA posting; the post Murder quoted of yours was just nitpicking one word from a post and whining about it. And a line saying you agree, which if alone would be against the rules because it adds nothing

It's good that you let me know that you don't care; I'm sure that little nugget of information will be of great use to me, not to mention a nice addition to your admirable list of non-contributions.

You know what? I've become bored with your predictability. Just take a look at each of the posts you've made. You make an assertion, it is shot down, and you need to shift to something else; there's no clearer example of grasping at straws. You've just dismissed all qualifiers. "Meaningless", "erroneous", they all were too inconvenient for you, so instead you dropped them to better suit your hypocritical scolding of my scolding.

As for the line of agreement, check some of Avien's (moderator) post history. "QFT" and other forms of agreement with quotes have been used. Here's the detail you fail to see, though: It's an ongoing discussion. Most people get defensive when quoted, so the last line clarifies that the objection is not with the substance, but rather the wording of it. My suggestion was far from mere nitpicking; it will help him avoid getting cited for infractions less often.

Unless you can make a solid argument on the first post that called to attention my clarification, I'm done with you. Shift away all you want, I've satisfied my monthly quota of pissing contests.

[Count Izreal]

Ok guys Laz was right here can we go back to Ironbreakers now? Please take you arguments to a different place where you aren't clogging the topic up with pointless monologues.

[darklinkjr]

It's good that you let me know that you don't care; I'm sure that little nugget of information will be of great use to me, not to mention a nice addition to your admirable list of non-contributions.

You know what? I've become bored with your predictability. Just take a look at each of the posts you've made. You make an assertion, it is shot down, and you need to shift to something else; there's no clearer example of grasping at straws. You've just dismissed all qualifiers. "Meaningless", "erroneous", they all were too inconvenient for you, so instead you dropped them to better suit your hypocritical scolding of my scolding.

As for the line of agreement, check some of Avien's (moderator) post history. "QFT" and other forms of agreement with quotes have been used. Here's the detail you fail to see, though: It's an ongoing discussion. Most people get defensive when quoted, so the last line clarifies that the objection is not with the substance, but rather the wording of it. My suggestion was far from mere nitpicking; it will help him avoid getting cited for infractions less often.

Unless you can make a solid argument on the first post that called to attention my clarification, I'm done with you. Shift away all you want, I've satisfied my monthly quota of pissing contests.
what in the world.. I did not understand most of what you said but +1.

Also, I am not playing an IronBreaker because I don't like dwarfs. [more of an orc person]
when will people see that Green Iz Best
and pink

[Deathgrind]

It's good that you let me know that you don't care; I'm sure that little nugget of information will be of great use to me, not to mention a nice addition to your admirable list of non-contributions.

You know what? I've become bored with your predictability. Just take a look at each of the posts you've made. You make an assertion, it is shot down, and you need to shift to something else; there's no clearer example of grasping at straws. You've just dismissed all qualifiers. "Meaningless", "erroneous", they all were too inconvenient for you, so instead you dropped them to better suit your hypocritical scolding of my scolding.

As for the line of agreement, check some of Avien's (moderator) post history. "QFT" and other forms of agreement with quotes have been used. Here's the detail you fail to see, though: It's an ongoing discussion. Most people get defensive when quoted, so the last line clarifies that the objection is not with the substance, but rather the wording of it. My suggestion was far from mere nitpicking; it will help him avoid getting cited for infractions less often.

Unless you can make a solid argument on the first post that called to attention my clarification, I'm done with you. Shift away all you want, I've satisfied my monthly quota of pissing contests.
So, how am I nitpicking but you weren't? Because i'm not a trendy?

[Lucrece]

what in the world.. I did not understand most of what you said but +1.

Also, I am not playing an IronBreaker because I don't like dwarfs. [more of an orc person]
when will people see that Green Iz Best
and pink

Disregard that; there are more important matters to address, such as shooting down your proposition that green is best~

Green is only best when it's the slimy remains of some Grobi decorating my Dwarfen boots.

[Maic]

I personally am going be be an engineer, but the Ironbreakers will be the best order tank imo. They have a deep and very interesting lore surrounding them. They also have attractive armor that may not look as scary and intimidating as Chaos or as lavish as the Empire, but dwarves are not lavish and they don't have to try to intimidate through looks. If you do a dwarf wrong, they will remember and they well help you remember the next time they see you.

P.S. On the side converstaion this thread has. Anonymity on an internet forum does not give anyone the right to act in a disrespectful or childish manner. If you wish to do so, please take it out of this community. It has no place here and you are degrading it with the "trolling".

[Volkov]

This used to be an interesting thread, thanks for ruining it.

[Count Izreal]

Guys can we please go back to Ironbreakers here.... :???:

On the topic istelf, I would go for Ironbreakers because they are like the rocks which have to undergo the constant pressure of the waves crashing against them, they are unmoveable (Please do not think of how rocks are slowly worn away over time to nothing). I like their heavily defensive structure.

[Saucon21]

Because they are Ironbreakers doh :)

[Count Izreal]

Because they are Ironbreakers doh :)

*Gasp* You just said you played them because they were Ironbreakers, implying that they are good! And you're in Beta!

NDA breach! NDA breach! ;)

[Jonesy]

because they are like the rocks which have to undergo the constant pressure of the waves crashing against them

In 27 years
I drunk fifty-thousand beers
and they just wash against me
like the sea into a pier

[Lucrece]

In 27 years
I drunk fifty-thousand beers
and they just wash against me
like the sea into a pier

Don't you think that little quip ought to belong on a particular thread of your guildsite? ;)

[Jonesy]

Haha. Now I have to go see what you're talking about.

Edit: Oh, duh. ;P

[Grudgeborne]

I leave the answer to this question to our great an mighty High King.

"To strike an Ironbreaker is to strike an anvil. You are more likely to re-shape your weapon than to move him… and heavens forbid one lands on you..."

- High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer

Enough said I think.

[Laz]

I leave the answer to this question to our great an mighty High King.

"To strike an Ironbreaker is to strike an anvil. You are more likely to re-shape your weapon than to move him… and heavens forbid one lands on you..."

- High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer

Enough said I think.Well quoted, Brother... We Ironbreakers will be the hardened steel anvil that those bigmouthed fungus-boyz will crash against and break... Ahhhhhh my blood is beginning to rise... I'm wishing the Summer was over and we were on the razor edge of D-Day...;)

[Ragnarok77]

They are Dwarfs!
They wear awesome dwarf armor!
Their armor is covered in runes!
Wear full face helmets that look really mean!
Hard as rocks!
Use axes!
Use axes covered in runes!
Can have ancestor runes on their armor!
Have beards!
Will take out your knees then smash you in the face!
Are dwarfy!

[Halcyon]

dwarf ironbreaker minis are the best. and the idea of a small heavily armored bearded dwarf tank is WAY TOO COOL to pass up.

[Snorri]

Can't believe I haven't posted in this thread.
(There's an awful lot of poncy garbage in here though.)

Why am I rolling an Ironbreaker, instead of another tank...

Well, first and most obviously - I like Dwarfs. And, appealingly, The Ironbreaker is the epitome of Dwarfiness.* He's grim, he's as immoveable as a rock, he's as hard as nails, he's as tough and enduring as hell, he's determined and intimidating, and if you piss him off enough - his vengeance will flatten you with the force of a falling anvil.

As for why I think he shines out amongst the other Tanks; it's because I also think that he's the epitome of tankyness.* He's clad from head to toe in the toughest metal known to man. He's a walking lump of metal, immovable and damn hard to scratch, let alone kill. He's got a massive shield, that looks useful for battering enemies into submission, and he's got an axe that can cleave and churn through armour like the pathetic elfling mail that it is (by comparison :p). He doesn't mess around with agile or dexterous swordplay, he's just simple and damn effetcive. He stomps in, he stays there, he defends his allies, and doesn't move on until all the opposition are lying at his feet - in gory and mutilated pieces.

Added to the natural toughness, endurance, strength, sturdiness, and determination of the Dwarfs - this makes the Ironbreaker THE definition of a tank.


* These are both highly technical terms.

[Laz]

And I keep having this recurring scene in my head where I feed a mouthful of shield to some black-souled abomination followed by an over-hand chop... Pure poetry....;)

[Alexej]

In this small but most important part of this awesome forum, i feel like at home with my dwarven heart :grin: Cant wait to stand next to all of you in one unbeatable legion :cool:

[Addam Solo]

Honestly, I have mostly had my heart set on hammerer, but if im right, tanks will be in short supply. i would rather have the ability to save a healer and build up dps, then have immediate dps and no ability to save the person keeping me alive. Besides, if i spec 2h hammer for my ironbreaker, i can pretend im a hammerer, and have heightened dps , as well as be able to tank and have more hitpoints. In addition, I will be targeted as if im melee dps, thus taking the pressure off of many of my teammates. by the time the enemy realizes im an ironbreaker, my team has already torn them to shreds, and my grudge is so high, im dpsing like a maniac.

I think my new love is 2h hammer ironbreaker.

[Lucrece]

Honestly, I have mostly had my heart set on hammerer, but if im right, tanks will be in short supply. i would rather have the ability to save a healer and build up dps, then have immediate dps and no ability to save the person keeping me alive. Besides, if i spec 2h hammer for my ironbreaker, i can pretend im a hammerer, and have heightened dps , as well as be able to tank and have more hitpoints. In addition, I will be targeted as if im melee dps, thus taking the pressure off of many of my teammates. by the time the enemy realizes im an ironbreaker, my team has already torn them to shreds, and my grudge is so high, im dpsing like a maniac.

I think my new love is 2h hammer ironbreaker.

Ironbreaker armor is very distinct from Hammerer armor. Additionally, you can just click someone and will probably see the class.

And trust me, Hammerers will be far more in demand than Ironbreakers will. So far, Hammerers appear to be the least popular career for Dwarfs.

[Addam Solo]

Ironbreaker armor is very distinct from Hammerer armor. Additionally, you can just click someone and will probably see the class.

And trust me, Hammerers will be far more in demand than Ironbreakers will. So far, Hammerers appear to be the least popular career for Dwarfs.

I mainly based my expectations off of DAOC. in that game, if my memory serves, clicking on an enemy did NOT reveal their class, you sort of had to guess based on the type of armor they wore and their skills. As a nightshade in that game, i would lay in wait to see what skills or spells a person would use before attacking, to prepare the proper strategy.

I think if this game allows you to see the class of the person, that would take a very great element out of the pvp game. I think the people who excel at pvp should only be those who merge strategy into their incessant mouse clicking:D

Also, if you say hammerers will be in more demand, I will probably play a hammerer. i usually play the least played class. Though I am having the darndest time deciding between runepriest and hammerer.

Ironbreaker armor is very distinct from Hammerer armor.

ah bloodey hell.

[DorianGray]

As for why I think he shines out amongst the other Tanks; it's because I also think that he's the epitome of tankyness.* He's clad from head to toe in the toughest metal known to man. He's a walking lump of metal, immovable and damn hard to scratch, let alone kill. He's got a massive shield, that looks useful for battering enemies into submission, and he's got an axe that can cleave and churn through armour like the pathetic elfling mail that it is (by comparison :p). He doesn't mess around with agile or dexterous swordplay, he's just simple and damn effetcive. He stomps in, he stays there, he defends his allies, and doesn't move on until all the opposition are lying at his feet - in gory and mutilated pieces.
* These are both highly technical terms.

QFT
My 2 main armies are Tomb King and wood elf, Ironbreakers are one of the few units that make me nervous because even with a well pulled off multiple charge they wont die or budge an inch. Have to base whole strategies on how to avoid dealing with those buggers and somehow kill the other units.

[Iconic]

5. They sound more like factory workers then an MMO class, Iron breakers? Shouldn't they be like working in the mines breaking iron?


They DO work in the mines, and they DO break iron. It just happens that the iron they break is the iron of their enemies' weapons when the enemy tries to attack the mines.

[Gorothar]

If I play order and choose a tank (still undecided on everything) I will play Ironbreaker. I don't like elves really, and I don't really play humans. I like to play a dwarf, and Ironbreaker looks like a lot of fun to play. Hard and tough character, difficult to take down and get past.

[Alexej]

QFT
My 2 main armies are Tomb King and wood elf, Ironbreakers are one of the few units that make me nervous because even with a well pulled off multiple charge they wont die or budge an inch. Have to base whole strategies on how to avoid dealing with those buggers and somehow kill the other units.
I play dwarves and even chaos chosen warriors are trying to avoid ironbreakers, because they are able to hold em until end of game ;) my personal favourite "Undying legion" :cool:

[Karandor]

Well from gamesday I can say the ironbreaker lived up to his name. My bro played one while I played a warrior preist and we lasted against 5+ enemies focusing him for at least a minute. I don't really know how long because it was tense as hell because he was at 25% or less health most of the time.... yes he was using axe and shield.


Being focused like that he had max grudge pretty much permanently so we took out 1 or 2 of them. The only way he died was a marauder was smart enough to get on me and I couldn't keep that last 10% health going any longer.

As a side I ran away, the marauder followed without back-up, I used a morale ability (big DoT lifetap) and smacked him down.

I also fought AGAINST them (3 of em and 2 swordmaster... WP and RP), we won the match but barely. They take FOREVER to kill even without healing. All of you dwarf fans will be very happy I think.

[Gorothar]

Well from gamesday I can say the ironbreaker lived up to his name. My bro played one while I played a warrior preist and we lasted against 5+ enemies focusing him for at least a minute. I don't really know how long because it was tense as hell because he was at 25% or less health most of the time.... yes he was using axe and shield.


Being focused like that he had max grudge pretty much permanently so we took out 1 or 2 of them. The only way he died was a marauder was smart enough to get on me and I couldn't keep that last 10% health going any longer.

As a side I ran away, the marauder followed without back-up, I used a morale ability (big DoT lifetap) and smacked him down.

I also fought AGAINST them (3 of em and 2 swordmaster... WP and RP), we won the match but barely. They take FOREVER to kill even without healing. All of you dwarf fans will be very happy I think.

Haha, that's good to hear. I haven't made up my mind yet, but the Ironbreaker is really looking better and better. May I ask what levels your characters were?

[Karandor]

it was all level 21

[lnquisitor]

If I was going to go Order it would be an IB.

But then, I watched Dwarfs dance. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brSaJejPj7Y&feature=related)

But if you consider IB badass you must imagine how tough their mirror is; The black Guard.
GW's description says it best:

"The Black Guard are the Witch King's favoured warriors, given the task of acting as his personal bodyguard and enforcers. From children they are taught the skills required to be Malekith's elite. As soon as they are able they are pitched against each other in fights to the death, so that only the strongest, quickest and most merciless survive."

'Nuff said

[suprez]

1: I always think that a true warrior should look like a dwarf.Tought ,muscular and build.

2: Love dwarf personnality.They love fighting ..But they do it for STRENGT AND HONOR!(Too much gladiator)

3:Easy roleplay . Because their personality fit mine .

4:Do you think in 100 BC that those gladiator and barbarian ,fighter looked like warhammer elf?
A quotes from Sin City! If that guy was born 1000 years ago . He would get all the chick!Society change .


They will be underdog to! THus easier to socialize with people and easier to find mature stuff!

[Thrid]

short, gruff, beardy, and full of a lust for revenge?

AND they get roflcopters?

And they're actually USEFUL(ish) IN PVP?!?!

Where do I sign up?!

[Kimmurial]

1: I always think that a true warrior should look like a dwarf.Tought ,muscular and build.

2: Love dwarf personnality.They love fighting ..But they do it for STRENGT AND HONOR!(Too much gladiator)

3:Easy roleplay . Because their personality fit mine .

4:Do you think in 100 BC that those gladiator and barbarian ,fighter looked like warhammer elf?
A quotes from Sin City! If that guy was born 1000 years ago . He would get all the chick!Society change .


They will be underdog to! THus easier to socialize with people and easier to find mature stuff!

well said !

I wish i could grow a beard like a dwarf :(

i was cursed with light beard

-Kim

[Moiax]

I am the proud owner of a dwarf army in the TT, and long before this game was coming out, the Ironbreakers were my favorite unit. As soon as I saw that they were a playable class the decision was already made. They are indestructible. That's about all I can really say. Arrows are shed to the side, blows can hardly scratch their gromril armor, and if someone manages to get though all that protection, there's still a tough hardy dwarf underneath it. They are the epitome of dwarven resoluteness, and are guaranteed to be the last unit for me left on the table.

"Head to foot in the best gromril armour, it's be a brave Goblin, Troll or ratman who faces an Ironbreaker and doesn't turn tail. And even if the roof caved in, not that a good proper Dwarf roof would do that, but them Goblin tunnels is shoddy work, nine times out of ten he'd climb out again, dust himself down and get back to the fight.."
-Dwarf army book

[shadelance]

Ehem, Archmage here, and, after being pushed, pulled, shoved, threatened, cajoled, and threatened to be knighted rather clumsily by Festo's axe, here is why I am not an ironbreaker or a tank:

1 - I'm an elf
2 - Elves are better than Dwarfs (check sig)
3 - Archmagi pwn
4 - Festo is Dwarfy enough for 100 people
5 - There is NO FIFTH REASON!

Fin.

Actually the Dwarfs defeated the High Elves in the War of Vengeance. The High King slew Caledor in single combat and shattered the High Elves kingdom in the Old World)aside from Athel Loren. I think that shows the Dwarfs have the edge on any elf. For Grungi!!

[Farao51]

The enemy may not see him, so he survive until someone stomp on him

[yarn ironthumb]

Why Ironbreaker..?

well.. they are dwarfs! And what words describe dwarfs best?

beards and bellies come to mind, yes..

slow and steady, young 'un, slow and steady..



I wanted to be a dwarf from the start. They have cool armour, cool classes, cool weapons and friking cool lands and cities. I have a TT Dwarf army and even standard dwarfs are though, Ironbreakers have an armoursave equal to any hero out there. I haven't got a regiment of Ironbreakers yet but I am sure getting 15 - 20 IB's. Ironbreakers are so appealing to me. Both in their task, in the lore and their looks. They are cool, though and it's awesome what they do. Every dwarf is though and very stronger and IB's even thougher and stronger!
With the KotBS gone, and I've read that Swordmasters are less of a Tank ( fragile pointy-ears ) and better at some other stuff, including magic resistance, IB is the only to be a true tank, altough every dwarf already is though. :p

[towerguarder]

yea i was planning to be a dwarf ever since i saw the races.. and iron breakers will rock for holding artifacts in scenarios!

[yarn ironthumb]

yea i was planning to be a dwarf ever since i saw the races.. and iron breakers will rock for holding artifacts in scenarios!

Good thinking fellow 'Breaker. Form a group of 4 or 5 IB's , put 2 healers and ranged guys in the middle and ya got yourself a fine selfreparing Tank that shoots back from a distance. :p

[Festo]

Good thinking fellow 'Breaker. Form a group of 4 or 5 IB's , put 2 healers and ranged guys in the middle and ya got yourself a fine selfreparing Tank that shoots back from a distance. :p


"TANK FORMATION!"


"MARCH!"

lol


I'm surprised some disgruntled hammerer hasn't posted with "because they took my class away" yet

[yarn ironthumb]

"TANK FORMATION!"


"MARCH!"

lol


I'm surprised some disgruntled hammerer hasn't posted with "because they took my class away" yet

* grin * I think you are inviting one with that post :rolleyes:

"MARCH"
"GET SHOT AT"
"LAUGH AND BRUSH OFF ARROWS"

Although it would be a good reason to go IB when Hammerer is down. At least for the people who like dwarfs and not just liked the hammerer carreer. You can go offensive, defensive ( wow! ) and supportive with an IB now, multiple paths to take since the death of the stubborn hammerers, am I right? I read it somewhere around here. So an offensive IB is the perfect way to replace your dead hammerer. Give him a hammer and he is as good as new :p

[tknup]

What is it with Ironbreakers that makes you wanna play them instead of any of the other tank-archetypes? Do you have anything special with Ironbreakers that you really are looking forward too?

Imagine an ironbreaker and a runepriest inside an engineers fortress of turrets, mines, and barbed wire. Oh and the Ironbreaker is holding the relic. :p

Have a nice time crying yourself to sleep greenskins.

[sdmikeyjames]

because elves look stupid as hell. Who would play that garbage? at least in the table top game they looks kinda bad . In WAR they just look pale skinned and made. Seriously work on the HIgh Elf Models plz!

O plus Dwarfs in WArhammer lore are awesome!

[Squibbo]

I may be playing one because there's really not many things in an MMORPG that gives me MORE pure enjoyment than having someone come up to me and attack me, and being able to laugh at their pathetic attempt to hurt me.

It really really is a great thing when someone engages YOU and then THEY have to run away after discovering they can't damage you. It never gets old, really.

Also, I like to play an important class, preferrably a less-popular one. Their beards are great. Their attitude is awesome. And so much more!

[loopgru]

Hm. Perpetually pissed off alcoholics with a penchant for getting irate and flattening things? Throw in some Norse and Scots influence and some gadgetry for good measure?

Where's the bad?

[aloris]

I chose ironbreaker over sword master (I'm in a Order guild so I can't go destro) because I love the sounds of the grudge mechanic, being able to do more damage to the enemies just because they don't realise that I am an actual threat to them so they continue attacking my little buddies. Along with being able to ride my very own roflcopter to decapitate the enemies as I ride past 'em. :twisted:

[Logic Crash]

The list against would be much shorter I feel. I enjoy dwarfs the most though.
1. They are dwarfs (nuff said)
2. They are tanks (play mostly support myself until WAR)
3. Gromril armor (rather reshape your weapon than move one)
4. Hammer and Axe (seriously, no swords please)
5. Not many dwarf players (underdog)
6. Best fluff (I love RP)
7. Grudges (Vengeance the better part of revenge)

[Mazari]

i can tell you that defensively specced Ironbreaker is the hardest class in the game to kill, followed by black orc being second to him


well,

*Biggest 2h axes in the game
*the only tank class whos high end shields are as big as the dwarf himself covering him entirely
*hes a dwar
*fluff
*gotrek and felix novels
*no blackguard in game
*even more clad in armor than black orc :> [since you have all parts covered]