Overclocking and Suggestions...

[Sparra]

Right so, my computer is starting to age and I don't really want to spend any more money on it for the moment... So I figured I may get some more millage out of it if I overclock it! My question to you good folks is: is there any place where I can find instructions/programs to overclock my computer and not have to know every single thing when it comes to computers? It seems the instructions I find seem to be written in a foreign language or suspiciously simple. So yeah, any help would be very much appreciated.

Here's my computer, with links straight from Newegg.com. It may not help, but I might as well provide the information I suppose...

Case: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154050
Processor: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103535
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146969 (two)
Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186086
Graphics Card: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150208

This is everything that makes up my computer (minus the monitor, a G15 keyboard, the hard drives, and a MS basic optical mouse as well as XP 64-bit I got for free from my school). Total spent: $568.91 (not including shipping). I might as well go on and ask what the next step in upgrading this thing is. I know the processor's only single-core and that the graphics card is a touch outdated, but suggestions are nice.

[8igdave]

Taht case is lacking as far as coolign goes and may not be a good idea. The amd single core chips are alot easyer to fry as well via over volting but i beleive they do over clock reasonably well. Ill find out what temps they can go to.

Shall start with the graphics card anyway.

Your graphics card is very overclockerble i beleive download the gainward expert tool from the gainward website. that should work with your graphics card. If you download and insteall it. you run it and a tray icon will appear. Right click on it and click fan control. What temperature does it read?

Also i would suggest going up the overclocks slowly on it due to your cooling. To max it out you may need to download 3d mark 2006.

If its under 55 degrees . Try putting the memeory clock speed at 1400mhz and the core at 500. It should be able to go quite a bit higher however you dont want the temperatures getting to high. If its over 55 degrees i think you may need to overclock it less and find ouit how much that putts the temperature up when its on load.

I dont think the shaders are overclockerble on these are they? Ive never had one personaly.

Then run 3d mark. with that gainward fan control up in the background. Every time one of the tests ends check the temperature.

Im not sure the throttling point of these GPU's though. I think if its under around 80 degrees it should be fine. ILl check on that.

I dont really think its your gpu holidng you back though. ILl find out some info on the maximum volts you can put through the cpu and how hot they can run.

[sanderke]

I might as well go on and ask what the next step in upgrading this thing is. I know the processor's only single-core and that the graphics card is a touch outdated, but suggestions are nice.


I know next to nothing about Overclocking (tried it recently with my own machine and failed miserably) but I can comment about your machine.

First the bad news, I doubt you can still really upgrade that machine in any decent way without buying a new motherboard.
Unfortunately your motherboard uses an old cpu socket (939 instead of the current AMD AM2 and Intel 775) and DDR1 memory (rather then DDR) thus anything you choose to upgrade on that motherboard will always be subpar compared to today's standard.
If you buy a new motherboard with a newer socket you'll automatically have to buy a new CPU and RAM.

The good news is that your graphics card, while starting to show it's age, isn't bad and uses the currently standard PCI-Express slot. You will want to replace it within a year that's for sure but it'll fit in most new motherboards (except the rare AGP ones), hence you won't need to upgrade that right away.


If you were to upgrade your machine you'll need to replace the following components no matter what:
- CPU (Intel Core2Duo recommended) - 170 euro's
- Motherboard (Socket 775 for C2D, AM2 for DualCore AMD) - 80-90 euro's
- DDR2 memory (2gb) - 40 euro's
- 500-550 watt Powersupply - 80-90 euro's for an A-brand

The mentioned prices are webshop prices so if you buy them at a local shop you'll be spending about 10% more. Also it doesn't count the costs of assembling the parts, which will cost a further 40 euro's if you don't know anyone that can help you.

[8igdave]

I know next to nothing about Overclocking (tried it recently with my own machine and failed miserably) but I can comment about your machine.

First the bad news, I doubt you can still really upgrade that machine in any decent way without buying a new motherboard.
Unfortunately your motherboard uses an old cpu socket (939 instead of the current AMD AM2 and Intel 775) and DDR1 memory (rather then DDR) thus anything you choose to upgrade on that motherboard will always be subpar compared to today's standard.
If you buy a new motherboard with a newer socket you'll automatically have to buy a new CPU and RAM.

The good news is that your graphics card, while starting to show it's age, isn't bad and uses the currently standard PCI-Express slot. You will want to replace it within a year that's for sure but it'll fit in most new motherboards (except the rare AGP ones), hence you won't need to upgrade that right away.


If you were to upgrade your machine you'll need to replace the following components no matter what:
- CPU (Intel Core2Duo recommended) - 170 euro's
- Motherboard (Socket 775 for C2D, AM2 for DualCore AMD) - 80-90 euro's
- DDR2 memory (2gb) - 40 euro's

You might also need a new Powersupply but since Core2Duo cpu's are quite efficient you should be fine with anything over 400watt.
However if you ever choose to upgrade your videocard as well you WILL need a new one. A new A-brand PSU with enough power for a future videocard upgrade (500 - 550 watt) should cost around 80-90 euro's.

The mentioned prices are webshop prices so if you buy them at a local shop you'll be spending about 10% more. Also it doesn't count the costs of assembling the parts, which will cost a further 40 euro's if you don't know anyone that can help you.

Its the ampage which makes the difference not so much the watts. You can run sli 8800GTX and a Q6600 @ 3.6ghz on a 520w corsair.

I agree withyou DDR2 is quite a bit faster then DDr and youd do good to upgradwe it. 2gb can be had for penuts.

Moitherboard and cpu wize, if your already up for overclocking id suggest getting a 2180 (has a 10x multiplyer, can be explained if you wanted to go into more detail) and a motherboard which really only needs to be stable up to FBS's of 400 which is pritty bulk standard for all but the cheap P35 motherboards now.

the P35 gigabyte DS3l or DSR would allow you to push the (far superior core 2 duo) from 1.8ghz to 3ghz with ease of just a tiny bit of voltage ajustment and upping what is called teh FBS and hay presto done. Well you may need to change your ram divider about to get the best speed out of that also.

Would make for a faily cheap upgrade. Of around $300. Might be a bit less actually. Im english so i dont know exact prices.

[sanderke]

Its the ampage which makes the difference not so much the watts. You can run sli 8800GTX and a Q6600 @ 3.6ghz on a 520w corsair.

His current case came with a 300watt brand-less PSU so it's pretty safe to assume that a new powersupply would be wise.


As for overclocking, you can get good performance gains if you know what you are doing but I wouldn't recommend him to buy a cpu based on the promise of good overclocking.
If he were to fail at it (like me :() he'd risk being stuck with an 'inferior' cpu then he could've had.

Also, overclocking an E2140 to 3.0ghz would require a good cooler (35 euro's or more) and probably a new case with better airflow. (another 50 euro's or more)
Due to inexperience the chances of him achieving an overclock such as you mentioned would be against him.

Hence it might ultimately be cheaper to go for an E6750 (2.6ghz stock) or at least he doesn't risk failing to overclock and being stuck with an 'inferior' cpu.


Your advice is very helpful but I'm afraid I must disagree with your recommendation for someone with no OC'ing experience to buy an E2140 based on overclocking potential.
Then again I'm biased since my attempt at OC'ing failed. (E6300, became unstable at only 2.1ghz)

[8igdave]

His current case came with a 300watt brand-less PSU so it's pretty safe to assume that a new powersupply would be wise.


As for overclocking, you can get good performance gains if you know what you are doing but I wouldn't recommend him to buy a cpu based on the promise of good overclocking.
If he were to fail at it (like me :() he'd risk being stuck with an 'inferior' cpu then he could've had.

Also, overclocking an E2140 to 3.0ghz would require a good cooler (35 euro's or more) and probably a new case with better airflow. (another 50 euro's or more)
Due to inexperience the chances of him achieving an overclock such as you mentioned would be against him.

Hence it might ultimately be cheaper to go for an E6750 (2.6ghz stock) or at least he doesn't risk failing to overclock and being stuck with an 'inferior' cpu.


Your advice is very helpful but I'm afraid I must disagree with your recommendation for someone with no OC'ing experience to buy an E2140 based on overclocking potential.
Then again I'm biased since my attempt at OC'ing failed. (E6300, became unstable at only 2.1ghz)

This is an email i just sent off to someone else about overclocking a E2180 perhaps this will help you. Although you say you got stuck at 2.1ghz so perhaps not.

I could help you sort it out if you still have it and can kept you up to speed. What are the voltages on your ram and cpu? Your north bridge voltage shouldn't require uppding at such low overclocks. Also what multiplyer and FSB speed are you on?

heres the email anyway as there no harm in posting it, if you already know it just skip it.

A bit of info on how overclocking works:

Forget about all parts but your mobo, cpu and ram for the moment.

Now the motherboard has what uis called the front side bus, which is shorted to teh FSB. Now this runs at different speeds called the FSB speed.

The E2180 has a FSB of 200. It says in its discription 800 FSB but it is what is called "quad pumped" the details on why are not really important.

The CPU has what is called a "multiplyer" this takes teh FSB speed and times it by the said multiplyer. The E2180 has a mulultiplyer of 10. This can be taken down but never put up, so you can have it at 9,8,7 etc.

10 x 200FSB gives you your starting point of a 2ghz CPU.

Increaseig the FSB speed will increase the cpu clock speed. You see how simple this is realy?

Ah but there is a catch! Your Ram speed also runs off this same FSB to get its MHZ speed.

DDR2 ram times the FSB by 2 to give you its speed. If the FSB is runig at 400 then it will take that speed do 2x400 and give you 800mHZ speed. Now this is the speed of your ram and the speed you should be aiming for at all times.

So youve got your E2180 with its 10x multiplyer and you just wopped the FSB straight up to 300 to give you your 3ghz overclock. the overclock your aimed at.

But the ram will take 300x2 and only give you 600mhz instead of 800mhz. SO you have just effectively underclocked your ram.

But your motherboard has another feature called "ram dividers". Think of these like ratios. The default divider is 1:1. This means that if the FSB is at 300. Then your RAm will use a FSB of 300 and times it by 2 to give you your MHZ speed.

But if the divider is say at 1:2 Then it will take your 300FSB, times it by 2 because the divider is giving you a ratio of FSB:RAM FSB so effectively takig the FSB and doublign it. This givse you 600FSB then your ram times it by 2 to give tyou the mhz. This of corse would give you 1200mhz which is far to high for your ram but its an example.

Now they should come with smaller incriments of say 1:1.2 This would give you 300FSBx1.2 to give you 360FSB then x2 because your ram is DDR2 to give you 720Mhz.

Now you may think, thats still an underclock. Ahh but only by 80mhz and the speed increase on your CPU would be considered worth it most probably.

But if your still not happy you could always drop the multiplyer of x10 on your CPU and this would allow you to up the FSB to get the same 3ghz speed you are aiming for. The result of upping the FSB will also increase your RAM speed.

If you drop your multiplyer of your CPU to x9 and up the FSB from 300 to 333. This still gives you 3ghz on your cpu. But the up shot is that if you were to use 333 with the divider of 1:1.2 you get 333x1.2= 399.6 FSB then your ram beacuse its DDR2 ram will take this speed and times it by 2 to give you just a fraction under 800MHZ speed.

I hope that made sence. It is all maths not really hard ware knowlage just a simple equation kind of. It may be easyer to take in if you write it down with the words in boxs in decending order with arrows to each perhaps:


FSB (cpu)

CPU multiplyer

CPU speed (FSB x Multiplyer)


FSB (RAm)

Ram divider x FSB

Times that By 2 = Ram speed

[8igdave]

His current case came with a 300watt brand-less PSU so it's pretty safe to assume that a new powersupply would be wise.


As for overclocking, you can get good performance gains if you know what you are doing but I wouldn't recommend him to buy a cpu based on the promise of good overclocking.
If he were to fail at it (like me :() he'd risk being stuck with an 'inferior' cpu then he could've had.

Also, overclocking an E2140 to 3.0ghz would require a good cooler (35 euro's or more) and probably a new case with better airflow. (another 50 euro's or more)
Due to inexperience the chances of him achieving an overclock such as you mentioned would be against him.

Hence it might ultimately be cheaper to go for an E6750 (2.6ghz stock) or at least he doesn't risk failing to overclock and being stuck with an 'inferior' cpu.


Your advice is very helpful but I'm afraid I must disagree with your recommendation for someone with no OC'ing experience to buy an E2140 based on overclocking potential.
Then again I'm biased since my attempt at OC'ing failed. (E6300, became unstable at only 2.1ghz)

Thought id split into 2 posts as the first one is long.

I said the E2180 which has a x10 multiplyer making the overclocking very very simple indeed.

As for the psu. Well if his current pc runs of tht fine i dont think the addition of a 2180 is going to add much extra to the wattage. But yeah i gues it wouldn't hurt and helps give peice of mind.

The E2180 will go to 2.6ghz happly on the stock cooler and even 3ghz i beleive. The CPUs performance is the same right up untill it throttles. Which is just when it shuts its self off as a safty thing and can be rebooted again fine.

The throttlign point is around 100 degrees. So youve got some scope for overclocking :)

[Volbeat]

sparra where are you from? if ur from denmark i can sew you up a pretty sweat deal, 6ghz dualcore cpu, 4gigs of ram, new mobo, new tower, for just about 500$

[8igdave]

sparra where are you from? if ur from denmark i can sew you up a pretty sweat deal, 6ghz dualcore cpu, 4gigs of ram, new mobo, new tower, for just about 500$

Not to discredit you or tar you with a nasty brush but which cpu is this? But to try and advertise a 6ghz cpu doesn't sound right. You are aware that a dual core does not take the GHZ speed ad times by 2?

[8igdave]

Someone from an enthusiast overclocking website im a regular on says they are runing their E2180 on the cheap £65 Gigabyte DS3L board at:

Using DS3L here with no problems. Running 3.2ghz with 1.38v and i'm only limited by heat because i'm using a stock cooler.



3.2ghz on the stock cooler seems very impressive indeed.

[Sparra]

Well, I'm from the United States (Illinois) so getting a computer from Denmark is completely out of the question. Anywho...

So I went ahead and downloaded a GPU overclocking program, ATITool. This was compatible with my graphics card and seemed to be easy to use. Right now I got the core OC'ed to 564 MHz (up from stock 450), and the memory OC'ed to 779 MHz (stock 660). Now this nifty little program has a spinning cube that you can use to check to see if your overclock creates any visual oddities. Right now these settings create no visual oddities (checked using a few games I had). However, it does not seem that I get a boost from this... Or it's the fact that I'm looking to hard and don't see the slight performance boost.

Anyway, the GPU is sitting at roughly 55 degrees while idle. I brought up BF2142 and put the graphics to max (AA x4 and everything) and played that for about a 1/2 hour. The temperature then was around 70 degrees then. On the bright side, I did not see any slowdown at all (compared to very little before OC the GPU, I normally run at x2 AA). So there was an improvement after all. I'm downloading 3DMark right now, it's a large file though so it'll take a bit to complete.

So yeah, my little update.

[8igdave]

Well, I'm from the United States (Illinois) so getting a computer from Denmark is completely out of the question. Anywho...

So I went ahead and downloaded a GPU overclocking program, ATITool. This was compatible with my graphics card and seemed to be easy to use. Right now I got the core OC'ed to 564 MHz (up from stock 450), and the memory OC'ed to 779 MHz (stock 660). Now this nifty little program has a spinning cube that you can use to check to see if your overclock creates any visual oddities. Right now these settings create no visual oddities (checked using a few games I had). However, it does not seem that I get a boost from this... Or it's the fact that I'm looking to hard and don't see the slight performance boost.

Anyway, the GPU is sitting at roughly 55 degrees while idle. I brought up BF2142 and put the graphics to max (AA x4 and everything) and played that for about a 1/2 hour. The temperature then was around 70 degrees then. On the bright side, I did not see any slowdown at all (compared to very little before OC the GPU, I normally run at x2 AA). So there was an improvement after all. I'm downloading 3DMark right now, it's a large file though so it'll take a bit to complete.

So yeah, my little update.

the gainward tool is compatible with any graphics cards. Secondly its ironic you would say that as you have a NVIDA card lol. But anyway we shall carry on, i have never used this tool before however.

You should look for any tearing or artifacting of the screen while playing. You can probably push ti further. keep going untill you start seeig artifacting then ease it off.

Also it is your cpu holding you back mainly so your graphics card probably isn't being used to its full potential as it can only go as fast as the cpu is feeding it.

But anyway, good work :) Now you can go spread the word how easy it is to overclock your graphics card! I shall eventually manage to get through to everyone overclocking= free performance. LOL!

[Sparra]

Yeah, overclocking the Graphics card is easy... I'd like to OC the CPU that seems to be more complex... Anywho, 3DMark finished downloading and I ran it, getting a rating of 4097. I suppose that's not bad, but it's very much on the lower end of the scale here... At least I know what I'm in for when I decide to upgrade! My poor RAM cards... >.>

Tonight I'll (again) try Nvidia's nTune program to get it to overclock my CPU and everything else. Every time I try this, it crashes the computer (which I expect) but does not restart (which I don't). So yeah, I'd like to up the CPU (the limiting factor in my computer it seems) since I don't have the money to buy all the stuff I need for a new processor/motherboard/RAM. Aside from nTune, is there any program that'll OC the CPU (preferably automatically) or instructions that I'll understand?

[8igdave]

Yeah, overclocking the Graphics card is easy... I'd like to OC the CPU that seems to be more complex... Anywho, 3DMark finished downloading and I ran it, getting a rating of 4097. I suppose that's not bad, but it's very much on the lower end of the scale here... At least I know what I'm in for when I decide to upgrade! My poor RAM cards... >.>

Tonight I'll (again) try Nvidia's nTune program to get it to overclock my CPU and everything else. Every time I try this, it crashes the computer (which I expect) but does not restart (which I don't). So yeah, I'd like to up the CPU (the limiting factor in my computer it seems) since I don't have the money to buy all the stuff I need for a new processor/motherboard/RAM. Aside from nTune, is there any program that'll OC the CPU (preferably automatically) or instructions that I'll understand?

ntune overclocks the CPU? I awsn't aware of that.

Overclocking is best done in the bios rather then through windows. If your pc doesn't boot sometimes you need to clear your ccmos. its either a switch or jumper on your motherboard which resets everything back to default settings. Although you only need to do this if you ahve pushed the pc past its limits and it cannot boot. Most people never need to do it unless going for the bset overclocks possible. That would require alot more voltage tuneing etc which i wouldn't suggest someone new to overclocking attemps. Espeicly not with a 3200+ which is not very over volting friendly.

[Ragenrok]

ya, please don't overclock your CPU with programs, it should be done in the bios only.

And you never heard of ATI Tool Dave? Its the best program I know of for testing card stabability. The spinning cube that was mention is a feature called "Check for artifacts" It heats up your GPU and runs it hard to check for errors in your GPU's overclock. I use it to find the max Core and mem I can get then I use Rivatuner to set the overclocks.

[8igdave]

ya, please don't overclock your CPU with programs, it should be done in the bios only.

And you never heard of ATI Tool Dave? Its the best program I know of for testing card stabability. The spinning cube that was mention is a feature called "Check for artifacts" It heats up your GPU and runs it hard to check for errors in your GPU's overclock. I use it to find the max Core and mem I can get then I use Rivatuner to set the overclocks.

No i said id never heard of the Nvida Ntune overclocking the cpu. But i think he ment GPU and put cpu.


Tonight I'll (again) try Nvidia's nTune program to get it to overclock my CPU

[Ragenrok]

No i said id never heard of the Nvida Ntune overclocking the cpu. But i think he ment GPU and put cpu.

Oh my bad, must of read to fast lol.

[8igdave]

Either that or i wrote it wrong. Eitehr way thats what i ment.