AGP Hardware Advice Please [Archive]

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Morimur

02-23-2008, 02:43 AM

Hi Guys,

I am hoping that there is a technical guy/gal on here that can advice me on the next step. I have a crappy pc that is so ol it would be fairer to shoot it:)

i have 1GB of memory, 430W power supply, ati radeon 9700 AGP (own make) graphics card, P4 2.5mhz or so cpu. I ran wow quite happy at 1028 resolution and i am hoping from the rumours that it will run war ok as well.

What i would like to do though is upgrade the AGP graphics card. Obviously i would like to upgrade the lot, but the pc market is annoying so i would need to upgrade nearly the whole lot, probably only get away with leaving the case :)

So, can you please recommend a AGP card? Preferably budget, less that £100 and better than my ati radeon 9700. the Sappahire Radeon X1550 sounds ok, as well as the geforce 7600. not looked at this market for awhile so not sure what one is the best. ALso not sure what card would be best for war itself i.e. opengl etc.

Any help would be great.

Skaejek

02-23-2008, 02:45 AM

In Before The Move

Tech Corner (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=74)

seVere

02-23-2008, 02:53 AM

I don't think you really need to upgrade. If your computer is going slow try disk clean up, delete old stuff and adware/ virus scan it. Also a disk defag can help alot.

Your computer will run War no issues. The graphics are not state of the art or anything.

Also on vista, don't install stuff to the C drive. use the d drive. Installing stuff on the C drive (games apps etc) will make your comp go slow.

noobe

02-23-2008, 03:06 AM

From the looks of your computer updating your card itself would do nothing.... You would atleast need to also update your powersupply.. Maybe your other stuff depending on the actual specs.. Bus speeds..etc.. Does no good what so ever to have a great card in a crap computer. Your other stuff will simply bottleneck it *unless their good*.

With that said you be just fine running war. You don't need the top of the line. And your computer while probably below average these days but should still get the job done. Heck your card is better then mine and only the new fps games have stalled it *cod 4..etc*. And its just an ati 9500 *never again will i buy junk geforce*.

oakae

02-23-2008, 03:12 AM

I've seen AGP ATI 3850, 1950pro, Nvidia 7900gs, 7950gt for less than £100. These are some of the few AGP cards more pwerful than yours left.

Here's a list of online retailers http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27666

Also I wouldn't recommend upgrading the video card. Save up for a new rig rather than upgrading an old computer

Krigare

02-23-2008, 03:18 AM

Yeah I just cant recommend upgrading from AGP to AGP. Your going to have to upgrade everything to really see a meaningful difference.

Save up for a new rig rather than upgrading an old computer.

spetnaz

02-23-2008, 03:19 AM

seVere

02-23-2008, 04:03 AM

Your better off just buying a whole new computer if your mind is set on upgrading. AGP is dead dude.

Morimur

02-23-2008, 04:42 AM

thanks for the replies guys. I was hoping my pc would run it. I agree with you that agp is dead, i was just praying i didn't need to upgrade the whole lot again :(

Oh well. appologies as i never notice the tech forum.

Avien

02-23-2008, 05:00 AM

Mo0rbid

02-23-2008, 05:06 AM

really, don't get a new agp card. get a pci-e instead (and upgrade more thoroghly). It's way better in the long run

spetnaz

02-23-2008, 06:45 AM

ah well, i had to do it anyway as my old gfx card was fried

Nerror

02-24-2008, 05:18 AM

I don't think the Radeon 9700 is even close to the minimum reqs WAR will have. It's comparable to the Geforce 4 series.

Your system is definitely in need of a complete change, so if you can get the money for it that is the best option. You can get a decent system for WAR for not all that much if you avoid the top of the line stuff. Intel is cutting prices (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5698&Itemid=35) on some of their CPUs in April, and those CPUs are plenty fast enough for WAR.

If you simply cannot afford a new system, upgrading the graphics card is the obvious choice. Take a look at Best Gaming Graphics Cards: February 2008 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/04/best_cards_february_2008/page6.html). Before getting a card, make sure your motherboard supports it. You might have to upgrade the bios. Your 430W power supply should be plenty for most cards if it was only about the watts (my current system has an Athlon 3800+ (2.4Ghz), geforce 7600GT, 2GB RAM, 1 HD + a few fans and it pulls around 200W under load), but make sure it has enough amps on the 12V rail for the card and the right power connector for it. There is a chance you have to upgrade the power supply as well, but you can always get one you can use in your next system, so the money isn't wasted.

PeterPan

02-24-2008, 09:11 AM

AGP is not dead

There is an AGP version of the Radeon HD 2600 and Radeon HD 3850. Either of which would completely pwn this game.

Buy one of these cards and add an extra 1GB of ram, you'll be good to go.

8igdave

02-24-2008, 01:28 PM

hi, i just upgraded my 'old' pc to prep it a little bit for WAR.

Athlon64 3000+ @ 1.8 Ghz Socket 754 (cant find upgrade for this)

Upgraded memory from 1gb to 2gb PC3200 (20 Euros)
Upgraded power supply from 350W to 460W (40 Euros)
Upgraded gfx from Radeon 9600 128MB to Geforce 9700 GS 512 MB (120 Euros)

Now i run WOW extremely well, with huge resolution and atleast 55 fps!
and i run CoD 4 very nicely aswell! (1024x mode with atleast 35-40 fps)

edit:
reading the above comments i have to say i disagree.
i spent 180 euros (which isnt alot) on parts to boost my performance and i have to say my PC feels really new. ofcourse i also defregmented all my drives and used TuneUp Utilities to get rid of any reg errors and clean up the whole PC. These things really helped in performance, i can really tell the difference.

To be honest id have to say you should have waited to get more money and just gone for an overhall. i presume that is DDR ram, which is alot slower then DDR2 equivilant and is more expensive then DDR2. The graphics card is many many many many many many manny generations out of date and really you would have wanted a 2600XT, but on AGP graphics cards cost alot more then their better PCI-E counterpart.

You should ahve gone for a AMD X2, 2gb of ddr2 and a 2600XT if you could ave saved up that is.

AGP is not dead

There is an AGP version of the Radeon HD 2600 and Radeon HD 3850. Either of which would completely pwn this game.

Buy one of these cards and add an extra 1GB of ram, you'll be good to go.

To upgrade AGP cards is totaly foolish. If your on an AGp card then you probably have an old hat cpu and DDR ram. DDR2 ram and a new dual core will significantly improve your gaming performance. Further more, the AGP cards cost more then their PCI-E counterparts.

Those who saying AGP isn't dead are simply stuck in the past and want to be differnt. Look at the big picture, all the new parts you ned PCI-E boards. If you upgrade to an AGP card you pay more then you should have and you are still stuck with the old technology for longer becauase if you upgrade to a new cpu/ram you need to get a new garphics card again.

AGP IS dead, they may still make the cards so they are technicaly still alive but the motherboards they run on hold you back by several generations on ram and cpu and therefore slow your pc down alot to the point where why bother gettign a 3850? you cpu and ram are going to be to slow to make use of it anyway. Anyone who argues that it isn't dead cant see the big picture and is just being stupid tbh.

Esraymuk

02-24-2008, 02:41 PM

8igdave

02-24-2008, 02:46 PM

A 2600 would totally be owned by this game...and most modern games. Unless you seem to count "pwn" as just "run". It'll run at like 5 fps @ 1680x1024 with all settings on max, inc. AA/ASF.

A 3850 would probably be bottlenecked by the CPU/DDR1 RAM that would have to go with AGP. Again a very, very poor choice.

The 2600XT is the same power as a 1950pro. Im not sure how that runsn theese sort of games as ive not playing an MMO before.

2600XT = minimum budget card worth buying though tbh. Annything under and it will really suffer in gaming on modern games.

The 3850 is a great card as it overclocks really well, just make sure you get a 512mb version.

Again a very, very poor choice.

lol :)

Nerror

02-24-2008, 02:53 PM

To upgrade AGP cards is totaly foolish. If your on an AGp card then you probably have an old hat cpu and DDR ram. DDR2 ram and a new dual core will significantly improve your gaming performance. Further more, the AGP cards cost more then their PCI-E counterparts.

Those who saying AGP isn't dead are simply stuck in the past and want to be differnt. Look at the big picture, all the new parts you ned PCI-E boards. If you upgrade to an AGP card you pay more then you should have and you are still stuck with the old technology for longer becauase if you upgrade to a new cpu/ram you need to get a new garphics card again.

AGP IS dead, they may still make the cards so they are technicaly still alive but the motherboards they run on hold you back by several generations on ram and cpu and therefore slow your pc down alot to the point where why bother gettign a 3850? you cpu and ram are going to be to slow to make use of it anyway. Anyone who argues that it isn't dead cant see the big picture and is just being stupid tbh.

I'll have to disagree a little here. Sure, AGP is dying out, but upgrading the video card can prolong the life of the computer. I did so myself early last year (from 6800LE to a 7600GT) and it meant one more year of gaming at a decent framerate for not all that much money.

Technology will always become obsolete. Next year we'll have the new nehalem CPUs from Intel requiring yet another motherboard upgrade (different sockets), and so the cycle will go on. That doesn't mean the LGA 775 socket boards won't be used for a few years longer though, and could offer a good performance for its cost.

Esraymuk

02-24-2008, 02:55 PM

Aaronthethird

02-24-2008, 02:56 PM

I can speak out of personal experience on this subject. I have a P4 2.8ghz with an AGP ATI 9800pro and 3 gigs of ram. One of my friends decided to upgrade his old computer so he gave me his AGP nVidia 7600 GT card. I threw it in and what I found was I was able to turn up the picture quality settings but my framerates did not improve much at all. I have been playing a ton of Team Fortress 2, and before I would run the game on pretty much all medium quality settings at 1280x1024 and I would get about 30fps. Now I can turn the quality up to high and much higher AA and get about the same fps. However, with either card, when there is a ton going on on the screen (for instance, 15 versus 15, with all the players fighting in one area on the map) my frames drop to about 8-15fps, and that is because my processor can't handle all that information; it doesn't matter how powerful the card is, ultimately my processor will bottleneck in situations like that.

If you can get a more powerful AGP card for free like I did then definitely take it, but I wouldn't spend a lot of money on an AGP card because your old Pentium 4 is always going to restrict you. What I would recommend is wait until WAR comes out, see how your current system handles it; if you find it is unacceptable then completely replace the computer, because the other aspect is, newer parts are a ton cheaper for the amount of upgrade you get than stuff for older systems. Right now, a mediocre AGP card can cost $200 dollars, while a very good PCI express card will cost less than that.

Long story short, don't invest money into an aging system, instead overclock the crap out of your computer and use it until it fries then replace the whole thing.

Nerror

02-24-2008, 03:11 PM

You can grab yourself a 7600GT AGP for about £20 off ebay/some retail site.

That'd probably allow you to run WAR at max resolution at medium (ish) with AA/ASF turned off at a decent FPS of around 30-40.

I'd probably go a bit higher than a 7600GT, even if it's at 1024x768 res. Big fights with lots of spell effects can probably bring a 7600GT to its knees.

8igdave

02-24-2008, 03:16 PM

I'll have to disagree a little here. Sure, AGP is dying out, but upgrading the video card can prolong the life of the computer. I did so myself early last year (from 6800LE to a 7600GT) and it meant one more year of gaming at a decent framerate for not all that much money.

Technology will always become obsolete. Next year we'll have the new nehalem CPUs from Intel requiring yet another motherboard upgrade (different sockets), and so the cycle will go on. That doesn't mean the LGA 775 socket boards won't be used for a few years longer though, and could offer a good performance for its cost.

If you want to play most new games at decent settings youll find that the old tech of your motherboard supporting APG will hold you back. Therefore its actually cheaper in the long run to upgrade your motherboard and get a nwe cpu + ram + graphics card. As youll end up paying over the odds for an agp card then find you have to upgrade them all anyway. Specially if you are upgrading to more ram. DDR ram costs more then DDR2. SO if you wana buy new ram and a new graphics card, then you may be able to get a new cpu + mobo + ram + graphics card for not much more and get alot more power. The price/performance ratio of AGp and DDR are very bad in comparison.

Buying new agp cards is just throwing money at old technology. Its like keep patching up an old banger, the amount of money you put in you might as well get a new car.

Esraymuk

02-24-2008, 03:17 PM

I used to own a 7600GT with a amd 3500+, and 2GB Ram. It ran at 1280x1024 with 2xAA 2x ASF (or was it 4x asf?) on WoW, happily at 30-40 FPS.

I'd imagine at 1024x768, with WAR, you could happily maintain 40-50 FPS at that res, with med-ish settings with a 7600GT. Even with lots of spell effects going off.

IMO it's not worth spending more to get a better AGP card. I only recommended the 7600GT as it's a pretty decent price-performance card, being relatively cheap at 20-30 pounds, but still performing quite decently. Anything higher would probably cost quite a bit, as AGP is pretty much dead at this point, and AGP cards arn't all that readily available from large retailers for a decent price.

8igdave

02-24-2008, 03:20 PM

@Nerror (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/member.php?u=3124)

The 7600GS costs 50 quid. Its not as powerful as a 6800GT i dont think and its not powerful enough to play any new games at anything but minimum of everything and infact it may still not be able to do that properly on some.

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=466649

For the same price i could get a 2600Xt which is alot more powerful with 512mb instead of 256mb and PCI-E.

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=723902

And your telling me that AGP cards are worth buying?

Ive not seen the 7600 Gt for 20 quid. And that would be buying second hand which is differnt as they sell cheaper because no one wants them where as they sell expensive at retailers because they have limited stock. Althiough if you look around you can probably still get the 2600XT for not much more second hand.

Nerror

02-24-2008, 03:39 PM

If you want to play most new games at decent settings youll find that the old tech of your motherboard supporting APG will hold you back. Therefore its actually cheaper in the long run to upgrade your motherboard and get a nwe cpu + ram + graphics card. As youll end up paying over the odds for an agp card then find you have to upgrade them all anyway. Specially if you are upgrading to more ram. DDR ram costs more then DDR2. SO if you wana buy new ram and a new graphics card, then you may be able to get a new cpu + mobo + ram + graphics card for not much more and get alot more power. The price/performance ratio of AGp and DDR are very bad in comparison.

Buying new agp cards is just throwing money at old technology. Its like keep patching up an old banger, the amount of money you put in you might as well get a new car.

Well, this is specifically for WAR, not just "newer games". WAR will hopefully require less to run decently than the latest games. And yes I agree a new system is a better choice, but if the money simply isn't there to buy it, upgrading the video card is an option for here and now. Not the best, but probably workable.

As for the 7600GT thing, WAR is going to be somewhat heavier than WoW and will require a faster card for the same FPS. If upgrading the AGP card is the only affordable choice atm, I'd go for the ATI 3850. If that card can't run on the motherboard, I probably wouldn't bother no matter what.

EDIT:

@Nerror (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/member.php?u=3124)

The 7600GS costs 50 quid. Its not as powerful as a 6800GT i dont think and its not powerful enough to play any new games at anything but minimum of everything and infact it may still not be able to do that properly on some.

It was a 6800LE :) the crippled, cheapo version.

As I was saying, no I don't think a 7600GT is enough to run WAR decently, much less a 7600GS. I have my doubts about the 2600XT for that matter. The 3850 is around 115 quid, and might just be the last viable card made for AGP, if the budget isn't high enough for a new system.

8igdave

02-24-2008, 04:22 PM

id be very suprised if the 2600XT didn't do at least medium. its the same as a 1950pro and they were the top card which alot of people had in their gaming pcs 2 years ago and even a year ago they were the best budget gaming card for under 100 quid at the time.

To max the game out at 22" native res (1680x1050) overclocked 3850 or a 3870/8800GT

PeterPan

02-25-2008, 06:41 AM

I have serious doubts this game is going to take alot of juice to run. They had it running on a Radeon X1600 PRO mobile at one of the cons and it played quite smoothly.

I personally think anything about a 6600GT/X1300/ Chrome S27 is safe

8igdave

02-25-2008, 09:22 AM

Safe for what levels? Recomended spec to me means medium to high settings and a 6600GT isn't going to cut the mustard. it doesn't even have SM3 which this may or may not use. For medium to high id say a 8600 GTS 512mb/2600XTX 512mb, perhaps maybe might need the 3850 for a bit extra power at higher resolutions to max it out. It depensd what resolutiopn you play at. But genearly i doubt youll need anything faster then a 3850

The 1950XT and XTX and 7900 series should also play it pritty well.

on a side note, how do you cut mustard? lol.

noobe

02-25-2008, 09:46 AM

I got to call bs on alot of these people. I'm running an ati 9500 which is a very old card and I run WOW on high settings. Without any problems, and I don't see War having much more requirements.

Esraymuk

02-25-2008, 11:07 AM

Aaronthethird

02-25-2008, 11:25 AM

I got to call bs on alot of these people. I'm running an ati 9500 which is a very old card and I run WOW on high settings. Without any problems, and I don't see War having much more requirements.

Wow's graphics are not very demanding at all and I can guarantee, even with how underwhelmed many people are with WAR's graphics, WAR is still going to be more demanding than WoW. I certainly wouldn't think you'll need a top of the line beast to run WAR well, but the OP will not be able to run it at full quality and high resolution settings without losing some serious FPS in highly populated battles.

Again I would reiterate my earlier advice, overclock your machine and run it till it dies. And don't spend money on upgrades until WAR comes out and you can test how your machine handles it because you might find that it will either handle it fine without upgrades or, on the other end of the spectrum, your machine may be so outdated that any upgrading would just be throwing money away and you'd be better off replacing the whole thing. But there's no way to know until you're actually running the game.

PeterPan

02-25-2008, 11:23 PM

I got to call bs on alot of these people. I'm running an ati 9500 which is a very old card and I run WOW on high settings. Without any problems, and I don't see War having much more requirements.A 9500 is pretty old school, its plunty for WoW, and might be enough for Warhammer on low, but I would recommend an upgrade of some type if you want to raid, seige, ect.

Im assuming you have an AGP slot... you can pick up an X1650 AGP for next to nothing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102085R

noobe

02-26-2008, 05:51 AM

A 9500 is pretty old school, its plunty for WoW, and might be enough for Warhammer on low, but I would recommend an upgrade of some type if you want to raid, seige, ect.

Im assuming you have an AGP slot... you can pick up an X1650 AGP for next to nothing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102085R

Yes i know my cards. I just havn't upgraded because just don't have the cash. This ati is my back up cause my geforce fried.. but none the less from what I've seen I still don't see this game requiring much more then WOW.. But we'll see. And by the time it comes out anyways it won't really matter because I'm sure by then I'll have a new card.

PeterPan

02-26-2008, 09:39 AM

It will require a decent deal more than WoW... im guessing at least 30-50% more. Thats still very low compaired to other games but I would not bet on a 9500 running the game over 20fps in open world, probably under 10 in battlegrounds.

Even a Geforce 8400 or Radeon 2400 would be a safer bet

Nerror

02-26-2008, 12:34 PM

Too much lowballing the requirements of the game here. 50 vs 50 or 100 vs 100 fights will be common in the game, and to experience those with a decent minimum framerate of 30+, people will need a strong card. Spikes of low FPS in big battles easily means death that could have been avoided with better FPS. It's not just the players running around, it's all the AE spell effects and smoke and particles that'll bring older cards to their knees. Now, if you always plan to stay in PvE or never partake in big RvR battles, an older card might be fine.

WoW is exceptional in its low polygon and particle count, and can be played well on old hardware. That's part of its success. When I look at WAR, that won't be true to nearly the same extent, because it's a newer game with more details. Add 3-4 years to the hardware that runs WoW well and you'll probably have the hardware that runs WAR well.