The BW possibly hurting themselves?

[hcksey]

I have been reading around that BW's will be able to hurt themselves if they cast to many fire spells.

Can anyone explain or even confirm this?

[XShrike]

The Sorcerers work like that. I don't see the Shadow Warrior or the Engineer working that way. So I would guess that the Bright Wizard work work similar.

[Flegler]

Yes, they have a spell called "Burnout", where they take damage to restore their action points (mana, effectively).

Source here. (http://warhammerinfo.com/c-brightwizard.shtml)

I don't think they suffer ill-effects from casting too many spells though - they just run out of AP and have to decide whether it's worth taking the damage to cast Burnout.

[Fiss]

Yes, they have a spell called "Burnout", where they take damage to restore their action points (mana, effectively).

Source here. (http://warhammerinfo.com/c-brightwizard.shtml)

I don't think they suffer ill-effects from casting too many spells though - they just run out of AP and have to decide whether it's worth taking the damage to cast Burnout.
I am pretty sure that most of this is speculation as in beta things are prone to change.

[Harken_Pherae]

well I know they will have a kind of self destruct ability. I remember watching a video of an RvR fight at some convention or something from a BWs point of view and he used a spell that took his HP from 100% to about 20% but it caused massive dmg to everything around him. I think its a voluntary spell though, no risk of spontaneously combusting for no reason.

[Nightz]

But how much Hp do you think a BW has compared to a tank? But none the less good last effort move and good dmg :D haha

[Zaltais]

The OP is not referring to voluntary self-damage spells like Burnout, he is referring to a mechanic called Combustion which works similarly to the Sorcerer's Dhar mechanic. Certain spells (all spells?) generate an amount of Combustion, which presumably makes your Bright Wizard explode if too much is generated, dealing X damage.

[Dagoth]

The OP is not referring to voluntary self-damage spells like Burnout, he is referring to a mechanic called Combustion which works similarly to the Sorcerer's Dhar mechanic. Certain spells (all spells?) generate an amount of Combustion, which presumably makes your Bright Wizard explode if too much is generated, dealing X damage.

Where did you get that from?

[Zaltais]

Where did you get that from?

From someone in http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27774
who never said where they got it from but started a few people (myself included) wondering where it was from.

[Flegler]

Well, it's confirmed in the newsletter now, Bright Wizards will have the same mechanic as Sorcerers and will do damage to themselves if they don't restrain their DPS.

I like it, personally. It's very fitting for crude human magics to be dangerous, and it adds further depth to what looked to be a simplistic nuking class.

I wonder if Burnout is still in. I'd guess not.

[Gemini]

Well, it's confirmed in the newsletter now, Bright Wizards will have the same mechanic as Sorcerers and will do damage to themselves if they don't restrain their DPS.

I like it, personally. It's very fitting for crude human magics to be dangerous, and it adds further depth to what looked to be a simplistic nuking class.

I wonder if Burnout is still in. I'd guess not.

But it's even more than that, you also have a higher chance to crit with more combustion. I think that's actually really awesome, you have a chance to lay down some serious hurt(more than just spamming spells), but it might backfire on you.

[Dan gerous]

Source (http://warhammerinfo.com/forum/about422.html)

Bright Wizard Career Masteries
Master of the Lore of Fire, the Bright Wizard is the most destructive battle wizard in all of the Empire. The Bright wizard is renowned for his ability to incinerate anything, ranging from individual soldiers to an entire hillside. However, destructive fire is not the only trick in his arsenal. The Bright Wizards is also capable of manipulating the wind of Aqshy to cause a variety of debilitating effects, ranging from thick banks of choking smoke, to withering heat that saps the strength and endurance from even the staunchest warrior. Some Bright Wizards have even been known to dabble in the healing arts, though cauterizing a wound with white hot fire is never a soldier’s first choice!
Bright Wizard Mechanic
Due to the volatile nature of Aqshy, the Red Wind of Fire that they manipulate, the Bright Wizard is always risking a backlash that could incinerate himself as well as his opponent. This buildup of Aqshy is known as 'Combustion' and the greater the level of Combustion a Bright Wizard places into his destructive spells the more likely they will explode with stupendous results (Critical Hit). However, even the most skilled wizard will get burned when playing with fire. Pushing the combustion level too high can result in a backlash of magical energy that will damage the Wizard himself.

Bright Wizard Masteries

Path of Incineration
The Path of Incineration primarily focuses on destructive single-target spells. About half of these spells have high values of Combustion allowing those who master the Path of Incineration to focus on weaving high risk spells in with more reliable destructive magics for optimal single target damage.
Path of Immolation
The Path of Immolation focuses on damage over time and debilitating, lingering debuffs. A Master of Immolation is more patient, relying less on high-Combustion spells with explosive effect and more on slow burns that build up into an unstoppable inferno.
Path of Conflagration
The Path of Conflagration is the most destructive of the Bright Wizard masteries with area effect spells capable of burning entire swaths of land to a crisp. However, Masters of Conflagration must exert the most self-control; most of their spells build up high levels of Combustion andtehir reckless use could mean the Bright Wizard’s doom as well.

[VanCrackin]

Who else really wants to see a BW one shot themself?

[Dastion]

They won't one shot themselves. That would be silly. Mythic has said before that there won't be any "one-shotting", so it makes little sense that a backfire ability could do anything like that. It's probably just a deterent to keep sorcerers and bright wizards from launching their most devastating attacks continually.

It seems that they are just trying to make mechanics mirror one another on each side just like we've seen before. When they told us about the Sorcerer it sort of threw us a curve ball because she had this strange mechanic we hadn't seen yet. We assumed that the Sorcerer and Brightwizard still mimic'd eachother because they were both the same *basic* concept of purely destructive DPSer though the only mechanic we knew of the BW having was their "burning" ability where they could only use certain big spells on targets that were burning from their lower level spells. That and a rumor of a tactic that made them explode upon death. But now we see that their mechanics are actually very similar. Though I can't see any real difference based on the description, at least none I can readily point out, the way it's worded does make it sound slightly different. Though, they could just be doing like they did with the Archmage and essentially be describing the exact same mechanic with a different "flare". (I really wish even ONE of those grab bag questions last month had addressed Drain Magic and whether it was still in).

[Raccool]

But tell me... How do you crit with a spell? That never made sense to me... I can understand with a blade or something because it can hit a vital point but spells just "affect" you. The "crit" would be included in the spell so it would either never do it or always do it... Like lighting someone on fire, you either light a part of them on fire or the whole person and whichever it is, that's what it's supposed to do. Lighting the jugular on fire doesn't really do more than lighting their leg on fire (in fact, the latter makes more sense because the flames would then spread.

Now I *could* understand if there was the opposite of crits. That sometimes, when you cast a spell, it kind of duds. That makes more sense. Who knows, maybe you moved your finger slightly wrong or something. But a spell randomly becoming MORE effective?

[Foofmonger]

But tell me... How do you crit with a spell? That never made sense to me... I can understand with a blade or something because it can hit a vital point but spells just "affect" you. The "crit" would be included in the spell so it would either never do it or always do it... Like lighting someone on fire, you either light a part of them on fire or the whole person and whichever it is, that's what it's supposed to do. Lighting the jugular on fire doesn't really do more than lighting their leg on fire (in fact, the latter makes more sense because the flames would then spread.


The caster gathers more energy/magic then he intended and lets loose a bigger fireball/lightning etc..


Now I *could* understand if there was the opposite of crits. That sometimes, when you cast a spell, it kind of duds. That makes more sense. Who knows, maybe you moved your finger slightly wrong or something. But a spell randomly becoming MORE effective?Resists?

[BowieHero]

i cast magic irl

[Llamazerker]

Who else really wants to see a BW one shot themself?

sounded more like oops i cought myself on fire.

looks fun, could be hard to balance, it worked in wow with shadow preists. for balancing i would suggest a soft cap that raises with your ability level just to avoid bw from being punished for being great among their class.

[Dark-Angel]

how can a spell crit? simple it hits a weak spot on your body, or the effects of the spell hits the weak point. That or you casted a spell so well it got empowered and did more damage than usale.

[Dastion]

But tell me... How do you crit with a spell? That never made sense to me... I can understand with a blade or something because it can hit a vital point but spells just "affect" you. The "crit" would be included in the spell so it would either never do it or always do it... Like lighting someone on fire, you either light a part of them on fire or the whole person and whichever it is, that's what it's supposed to do. Lighting the jugular on fire doesn't really do more than lighting their leg on fire (in fact, the latter makes more sense because the flames would then spread.

Now I *could* understand if there was the opposite of crits. That sometimes, when you cast a spell, it kind of duds. That makes more sense. Who knows, maybe you moved your finger slightly wrong or something. But a spell randomly becoming MORE effective?

Timing is everything. You crit with a weapon by swinging your weapon at the right spot at the right time. Same with spells, you crit with a spell by casting it at the right time. It's easy for us to understand the concept with weapons since it is something we can feasibly understand. However, when it comes ot something not real, like Magic, we can't really relate. Suffice to say that it's possible to cast a spell just right to get a little more out of your magic.

[Gemini]

I like Foofmonger's explination better, but both work.

[Origomar]

I wanted to be a bright wizard because the thought of having fire engulf my body and then unleash it with no remorse and watching my enemies cackle about as they are burning alive joyed me...But now...ill just hurt myself? is that what your trying to say to me :( The non-dark elves use the same magic we do just more variation of it and they dont hurt themselves but we try to specify ourselfs to just one of the 8 diffrent winds and we hurt ourselfs? That makes sense :confused:

[Gemini]

Makes sense to me, humans are much worse at magic than Elves, and it is my understanding Bright Magic is the most dangerous wind for Humans to practice.

[Origomar]

I guess i just hope it isnt too extreeme i dont want to practicaly be killing myself all the friken time and have it be so random that i basicaly depend on it to live or die x.x

[Gemini]

I guess i just hope it isnt too extreeme i dont want to practicaly be killing myself all the friken time and have it be so random that i basicaly depend on it to live or die x.x

Two things. First, we don't know how much damage it does, but I doubt you'll be pratically killing yourself all the time. Second, it isn't totally random, only certain spells build up combustion, as long as you don't use those spells too much you're fine. I personally love it, you can build up a higher chance to crit, but it's at a price, you might hurt yourself in the process.

[Origomar]

Two things. First, we don't know how much damage it does, but I doubt you'll be pratically killing yourself all the time. Second, it isn't totally random, only certain spells build up combustion, as long as you don't use those spells too much you're fine. I personally love it, you can build up a higher chance to crit, but it's at a price, you might hurt yourself in the process.

Actually it could be completely random you misunderstood me i meant that if you get a debuff combustion x1 you get (5% chance on spellcast for the spell to combust and deal X number of damage to yourself.) If you cast another spell like that it is like (10% chance on spellcast for hte spell to combust and deal X damage to yourself.) Then it could possibley be RANDOM because if someone who is really unlucky (Which i usually am) They could every other spellcast have it combust and totally lose that fight just because of bad luck. While on another fight i just rip through people and build up insane combustion and it never brokenand im critting every hit.

They also couldnt just simply put a limit because people would abuse it severly by getting to that limit then lets say useing sprint to run away for a while then come back and do it again.
I think a decent solution for this is that combustion builds up and maybe puts a DoT on you? and hte more you build up the stronger the DoT becomes that way if you cast too much you WILL tear yourself apart but if you dont cast enough you might just not kill the enemy and figuring out your limit and say having a healer around would greatly increase the BW's potency in groups...just a thought XD

[Origomar]

But yes it is nice to know not all spells will build up combustion.

[hcksey]

Well, I guess that answers my question :)

I personally won't have a huge problem with it unless
A) It practically kills you in one shot.
B) It happens all the time.

[Origomar]

True...or atleast when it does happen you explode youself and everything around you in a 100 foot radius for 5000k dmg. bit much?

[Origomar]

Btw did you make that youtube video...it is HILARIOUS.

[Gemini]

Origoman, that isn't completely random in book, since you have some control over it (the level of combustion to build) and is exactly what I was trying to say. The whole point of the mechanic is that you can't control it, if it was changed to a constant DoT based on combustion level you'd know how much you can take and it would be a completely calculated risk. The Lore of Fire is supposed to be volatile and dangerous, after all.

Oh, and ya know, posts have an edit button, you don't have to double post everytime you have something to add a minute after ya post.

[Origomar]

Sorry for that...i tend to post like that alot...but i see your point i just hope they do it fairly x.x
I used your edit tip for htis...i dunt want it to be like "Zomg i just got uber combustion i can now go either one shot the enemies or mah self" and i know your going to say "They might not make it that bad you dont know how much dmg it does!" I know this but i just have to state the same thing repeatidly over and over for no apparent reason

[Gemini]

I'm not gonna state "it might not like be that" but instead "it won't be like that". Mythic's design team seems to have their head firmly planted on their shoulders, not up a certain orifice, so I'm sure it won't be like that at all.

[Origomar]

I know i was just giving you a hard time XD

[Ravenlaw]

I know it's lame, but I'm surprised no one has said it yet:

"When you play with fire, you get burned"

[aloris]

I know it's lame, but I'm surprised no one has said it yet:

"When you play with fire, you get burned"
it being lame is EXACTLY why no one said!:mad::evil:

[Void Reaver]

But tell me... How do you crit with a spell? That never made sense to me... I can understand with a blade or something because it can hit a vital point but spells just "affect" you. The "crit" would be included in the spell so it would either never do it or always do it... Like lighting someone on fire, you either light a part of them on fire or the whole person and whichever it is, that's what it's supposed to do. Lighting the jugular on fire doesn't really do more than lighting their leg on fire (in fact, the latter makes more sense because the flames would then spread.

Now I *could* understand if there was the opposite of crits. That sometimes, when you cast a spell, it kind of duds. That makes more sense. Who knows, maybe you moved your finger slightly wrong or something. But a spell randomly becoming MORE effective?

Maybe when a spell doesn't crit, it is indeed a dud spell in the sense that the caster didn't cast it correctly and it only did a fraction of it's intended damage, but then every once in a while the caster casts the spell just right and it does its full potential damage (a crit.)

You may respond by saying that then why would it say on the tooltip that the spell is expected to do X-Y non-crit damage, when it should say that the spell is expected to do it's crit damage. I think that maybe the caster expects himself to not cast the spell perfectly often and that's why the non-crit damage is written on the tooltip of the spell instead of the crit damage. I hope I explained this well, and it's just a fun thought of course.

[Raccool]

Maybe when a spell doesn't crit, it is indeed a dud spell in the sense that the caster didn't cast it correctly and it only did a fraction of it's intended damage, but then every once in a while the caster casts the spell just right and it does its full potential damage (a crit.)

You may respond by saying that then why would it say on the tooltip that the spell is expected to do X-Y non-crit damage, when it should say that the spell is expected to do it's crit damage. I think that maybe the caster expects himself to not cast the spell perfectly often and that's why the non-crit damage is written on the tooltip of the spell instead of the crit damage. I hope I explained this well, and it's just a fun thought of course.

I would think that, in order for them to call themselves a mage (the whole purpose of their being) would be to do what they do well. And that's casting spells. They practice and practice and practice (in the academy and out of it) to make sure that they're doing it right because, traditionally, doing a spell wrong ends in disaster and possibly death. But human mages tend to be power-hungry so they keep getting into more and more powerful magics despite the risk. But they aren't going to be stupid enough to risk casting the spell wrong or imperfect because that would end in, as I said, disaster.

[Tarion]

Regarding spells critical hitting - If you've ever played the tabletop, you'll have encountered Irresistible Force. Essentially, the spell is cast at a particularly fortuitous moment, and it gets strength beyond what the caster put into it. The Winds of Magic are blowing just right and the spell is unstoppable. In TT terms, the spell can't be dispelled.

In WAR, it's perfectly reasonable that instead, the spell could express this boosted potency in other ways, such as more damage.

[Raccool]

Regarding spells critical hitting - If you've ever played the tabletop, you'll have encountered Irresistible Force. Essentially, the spell is cast at a particularly fortuitous moment, and it gets strength beyond what the caster put into it. The Winds of Magic are blowing just right and the spell is unstoppable. In TT terms, the spell can't be dispelled.

In WAR, it's perfectly reasonable that instead, the spell could express this boosted potency in other ways, such as more damage.

Awesome. That answers my question for this game. Thank you.

[Njor]

I just really really really hope that it will be more dangerous than a little damage back, make it something people actually have to be aware of (also in PvE). I realise one shotting yourself probably will piss off too many players, but it would ruin PvE if all you needed was a brigt wizard spammer and a personal healer for him to reach insane ammounts of dps.
Perhaps some kind of debuff when your spells backfire might solve this, it won't be as annoying as dieing but it won't be solved with a single healer either.