black guard specialty

[MidNight]

Know BG is going to be tank class for the DE, but what will they be able to do other then swing a weapon at there enemy. Every other tank seems to have some sort of "specialty" that gives them an edge. Chosen get spells and so do sword masters. Black Orcs (from what i have read) will have kicks and such to stun and daze enemies. Yes BG have hatred but what will that give them that makes them different from other tanks other then stronger melee attacks.

Anyone have any cool ideas?

I think BG with hatred should get huge sweeping attacks with there halberd hitting everyone in front of them. and/or ability like warriors execute from WoW

P.S. Also know Iron Breaker and Knight of ThE Blazing Sun dont have a "specialty" that we know of

[Lord Tareq]

Hopefully they can use hatred to either boost their survivability (like last stand in WoW, but different) or unlock powerful attacks with it (like execute in WoW, but different)
It will be interesting to see what their speciality will actually be, hopefully we'll get some info in a day or 2

[MidNight]

I hope they release BG info on the next news letter. I just personally would like to see the frontal AoE melee attacks. think would be a great tactic to use for huge RvR battles and a challenge for opposing force. set up line of BGs and they just cut down everything infront of them with huge halberd swings. And think would fit them considering there weapon of choice is a halberd. anyone have any other ideas.

[Luzitloh]

Hopefully they can use hatred to either boost their survivability (like last stand in WoW, but different) or unlock powerful attacks with it (like execute in WoW, but different)
It will be interesting to see what their speciality will actually be, hopefully we'll get some info in a day or 2

yea something like that i think =) but do you think hatred will work like rage in wow...fight more the more hatred..cuz BG should already have quite a lot of hatred against all races,
plus the morale abilities are unlocked the same way would make it pretty boring actully =/
opinions?

[Gemini]

How they explained hatred was that the more damage you take, the more hatred you build, and it buffs and unlocks certain abilities. However, since then, there has been zero info about the BG, so there is much speculation that the mechanic was dumped because of some obvious flaws (such as what if they just ignore the BG?)

[MidNight]

My idea on hatred is that hate shouldnt unlock abilities but more hatred you have increase dmg and effect of abilities you have.

P.S. how ever hatred works i just really want BG to have some kind of frontal AoE attack :mrgreen:

[iCanada]

IMO, i like to think of the bg as someone who is the best CCer (let me explain...) not in the traditional sense of "Now you cant do anything for 30 seconds!! HAHAHAHAHA!" but more in a controlling way- with many knockback/trip/pushing effects that allow us to literally control enemy position while the other character can still maintain attacks, we could just make them position themselves horribly and pull off insane positional strikes!
OR

An AoE tank who simply swings that beastly halberd everywhere...

Hmm, brainfart. Do you think there could be halberds/glaives that are able to be weilded with either 2hands or 1hand? (kind of like swords in Diablo!)

That would be badass.

[Lord Tareq]

Hmm, brainfart. Do you think there could be halberds/glaives that are able to be weilded with either 2hands or 1hand? (kind of like swords in Diablo!)

That would be badass.


I'm hoping for it...halberd + shield yes please:p

[iCanada]

I'm hoping for it...halberd + shield yes please:p

No kidding...

Shield+hally=BG r0xing my soXx0rz!

[shotgunbadger]

My idea on hatred is that hate shouldnt unlock abilities but more hatred you have increase dmg and effect of abilities you have.

P.S. how ever hatred works i just really want BG to have some kind of frontal AoE attack :mrgreen:

I want that too, rather then that oh so annoying WoWesque "NEED MORE RAGE" text, I'd like it to go "This attack does X damage, then at Y Hatered it does X+10, then at Q Hatered it does X+20, etc" and so on, it makes being a tank feel like less of a 'grind job' for me. There was nothing worse when I played WoW then feeling I needed to wait, and go through gobs of trash with sub par attacks, just because my Rage bar wasn't at X yet and I couldn't use my good attacks.

[XShrike]

The tanks mirrors:

Black Orc : Swordmaster

Chosen : Knight of the Blazing Sun

Black Guard : Ironbreaker

They way I see it the Black Guard's Hate mechanic will work similar to the Shaman's Waaagh! mechanic. Hate isn't necessary to use skills but, it can boost them.

[MidNight]

The tanks mirrors:

Black Orc : Swordmaster

Chosen : Knight of the Blazing Sun

Black Guard : Ironbreaker

They way I see it the Black Guard's Hate mechanic will work similar to the Shaman's Waaagh! mechanic. Hate isn't necessary to use skills but, it can boost them.

think mirror is:

Black Orc : Knight of the Blazing sun

Chosen : Swordmaster

Black Guard : Ironbreaker

i changed Knight of the Blazing sun and Swordmaster is b/c both chosen and Swordmaster have spells and Black Orc and Knight dont...i may be wrong but thats my reasoning

[Gemini]

IMO, i like to think of the bg as someone who is the best CCer (let me explain...) not in the traditional sense of "Now you cant do anything for 30 seconds!! HAHAHAHAHA!" but more in a controlling way- with many knockback/trip/pushing effects that allow us to literally control enemy position while the other character can still maintain attacks, we could just make them position themselves horribly and pull off insane positional strikes!
OR

An AoE tank who simply swings that beastly halberd everywhere...

Hmm, brainfart. Do you think there could be halberds/glaives that are able to be weilded with either 2hands or 1hand? (kind of like swords in Diablo!)

That would be badass.

The first idea just described the Black Orc, though exagerrated. Second, halbreds are freakin' polearms, no way they will be one-handed, though the BG will get access to 1h and shield if they so choose.


As for the mirror thing, I think people try to oversimplify it, at least for the non healer/support classes, those are pretty damn simple. This is how I see the tanks:

Black Orc has the offensive dirty fighter aspect of the KotBS while they have a combo sysetm similar to that of the Swordmaster.
Chosen has the most heavily-armored, very defensive aspect shared with the Ironbreaker while the AoE debuffs similar to that of the KotBS's AoE buffs.
Black Guard has the inverse of the Ironbreaker's grudge mechanic (hatred) while perfering to tank with a two-hander instead of a shield like the Swordmaster.

Thus:

Ironbreaker has the heaviest armor for their realm like the Chosen while the counter to the Black Guard's hatred mechanic (grudge).
KotBS has an AoE buff system similar to the debuff system of the Chosen while being a brawler type-combatant like the Black Orc.
Swordmaster is primiarly a 2her tank like the Black Guard while having a combo system similar to the Black Orc.

[iCanada]

... A spear can be worn one handed, such as in 300. and i didnt say Halberd, i said glaive. Difference.

Second of all, all tanks CC. Just because you recall your character was a dirty fighter doesnt mean that a BG wont have grounding mechanics similar.

And i seriously dont think that your "evasion tank" theory makes any sense; how could you generate hate if you dodged everything?

*sigh*

The only way to see what will happen is to wait for an update, and as the 27th of february.. Hopefully a newsletter with BG info arrives into my E-mail box shortly!

[ChosenOne]

Blackguards were explained to be heavily armed. Heavily armed generally means you are not dodge oriented. Seems his armor is a bit beefier then the armor used by the swordmaster.

To me the Chosen and Black orc really seem as if they possibly are better suited with a shield.

On the Order side that seems the same with the ironbreaker and knight. Perhaps its not better but it will be just as good.

That doesnt seem to be true with the swordmaster. The SM will have more skills made for the two handed greatsword.

Thus I would guess that if we do indeed have Blackguards that the same will be true for them. That you can use a shield and use it decently but they will have more options for a two hander.

[Gemini]

I think when they explained them as heavily armored, they just meant in the way that it's a tank, and tanks are heavily armored. However, I could be wrong, and either way you have a point about the 2hander thing being a very real link between the Swordmaster and the Blackguard, so I'm gonna edit my above post a bit to reflect that. I stand by my point of how the tanks are "mirrored" though, to me the Black Guard is half Swordmaster, half Ironbreaker, but 100% Druchii.

[Daedarin]

Offensive tanks:

Swordmaster = Black Orc

Buffing tanks:

KotBS = Chosen

Defensive tank

Ironbreaker = Black Guard

Thats it guys. Pure and Simple... Don't start to cry when the BG becomes defensive compared to a SM...

[MidNight]

i dont think you can put any of the tank types into offensive and defensive groups. simply because you can make you character play what ever roll you want.

[Dyst]

Offensive tanks:

Swordmaster = Black Orc

Buffing tanks:

KotBS = Chosen

Defensive tank

Ironbreaker = Black Guard

Thats it guys. Pure and Simple... Don't start to cry when the BG becomes defensive compared to a SM...
That's hilarious, but wrong. We haven't heard much info about the Black Guard, but every single tidbit of info we have points to the obvious conclusion that Black Guard is an (perhaps the most) offensive tank.

Also, people who believe all careers are mirrored in the opposite side are wrong. Of course the developers put certain mechanics into each side to keep it as even as possible, but they obviously don't have equal classes for both sides. There are 24 unique careers, with unique abilities and mechanics. And if you now respond with "look I found these they look equal" then lol at you for wasting your time. As I said some mechanics will be similar for both sides in order for there to be relative equality of strength, that doesn't mean the careers are reflections of each other (as has been stated).

[iCanada]

That's hilarious, but wrong. We haven't heard much info about the Black Guard, but every single tidbit of info we have points to the obvious conclusion that Black Guard is an (perhaps the most) offensive tank.

Also, people who believe all careers are mirrored in the opposite side are wrong. Of course the developers put certain mechanics into each side to keep it as even as possible, but they obviously don't have equal classes for both sides. There are 24 unique careers, with unique abilities and mechanics. And if you now respond with "look I found these they look equal" then lol at you for wasting your time. As I said some mechanics will be similar for both sides in order for there to be relative equality of strength, that doesn't mean the careers are reflections of each other (as has been stated).

Yeah... i somehow doubt that the phsycopathic beast who wont stop hitting something till its in 3+ pieces is defensive!

And i agree even further. Not all classes are mirrored! look at the shadowwarrior, or the magus.

[XShrike]

I am not trying to say they are exact mirrors, just that they will have similar mechanics. If you want to use RDPS:

Bright Wizard <=> Sorceress

I am not sure about these as we don't know more about the mechanics.

Shadow Warrior <=> Magus

Engineer <=> Squig Herder

[Vikingkingq]

That's hilarious, but wrong. We haven't heard much info about the Black Guard, but every single tidbit of info we have points to the obvious conclusion that Black Guard is an (perhaps the most) offensive tank.

Also, people who believe all careers are mirrored in the opposite side are wrong. Of course the developers put certain mechanics into each side to keep it as even as possible, but they obviously don't have equal classes for both sides. There are 24 unique careers, with unique abilities and mechanics. And if you now respond with "look I found these they look equal" then lol at you for wasting your time. As I said some mechanics will be similar for both sides in order for there to be relative equality of strength, that doesn't mean the careers are reflections of each other (as has been stated).

Actually, he's right on this.

Chosen/KotBS - both "twisting" aura tanks, with one as a debuffer, the other a buffer.
Black Orc/Swordmaster - both combo-based tanks, with one as disabling, the other as damaging.
Black Guard/Ironbreaker - both "meter" tanks, with the Black Guard gaining Hate from being hit, and the Ironbreaker gaining Grudge from his allies being hit.

[exx]

pretty much all skills are mirrored on both sides but not necessarily given to the same class, if they werent mirrored youde very likely risk one side being over powered
what skills and buffs/debuffs we dont know yet but both sides will have prety much all the same basic spells but spread out over the different classes

mechanics seem to be the most closely mirrored by way of the class

bg/ironbreaker...sorc/bw....shaman/archmage most specifically fitting a mirrored mechanic

[ChosenOne]

Actually, he's right on this.

Chosen/KotBS - both "twisting" aura tanks, with one as a debuffer, the other a buffer.
Black Orc/Swordmaster - both combo-based tanks, with one as disabling, the other as damaging.
Black Guard/Ironbreaker - both "meter" tanks, with the Black Guard gaining Hate from being hit, and the Ironbreaker gaining Grudge from his allies being hit.

Once again viking gets it right.

Mirroring does not mean they are exactly identical. It means at first glance they are identical, but if you look closer the "identical" image is opposite.

The chosen debuffs, the knight buffs. The mechanic is the same but works in an opposite fashion

The black orc uses combo's that seem to focus on disabling while the swordmaster uses combo's that seem to focus on damaging. Notice I used the word "focus". That means its not totally about disabling or damaging.

Finally the Ironbreaker has a meter that grows based on how much his party is attacked and possibly himself. That allows him to go out and do his thing because the meter is growing whether he is attacked or not. The blackguards is a hatred meter that grows when he is attacked. Once again they appear the same but are inherently opposite in nature. I have personally felt that the blackguards hatred attacks and abilities would have to be huge else it would be horribly uneven between the two or it would need a secondary way to grow hatred such as a skill like taunt that when placed if the target doesnt attack the blackguard that his hatred begins to grow. Thus why I think the blackguard is held back, the mechanic needed some tweaking or possible major changes.

[Eliphas-WorldBearer]

Yeah...expect many tank players rolling Black Orc...

[Dyst]

Actually, he's right on this.

Chosen/KotBS - both "twisting" aura tanks, with one as a debuffer, the other a buffer.
Black Orc/Swordmaster - both combo-based tanks, with one as disabling, the other as damaging.
Black Guard/Ironbreaker - both "meter" tanks, with the Black Guard gaining Hate from being hit, and the Ironbreaker gaining Grudge from his allies being hit.
Sure, but so?

Has anyone pointed out the fact that Black Guard and Swordmasters have pointy ears? Surely that means they should be grouped up.

[exx]

seems to me that the bo and bg are both teamed with ironbreaker and swordmaster
bg and swordmaster are probly going to be more likely to use th weapons, more of a graceful gameplay as aposed to run in and smash like th bo and ironbreaker will probly have.

but also the mechanics of their styles seem to be linked with bo/swordmaster and bg/ironbreaker

so depending on how you are looking at it, they are 4 classes with the kind of game play switched between them for both sides

bg/ironbreaker hate/grudge
sm/bo building attaks

bo/ironbreaker sword/sheild with more of a meatwall feal
bg/swordmaster th with a more active attack and hinder type of defence

so basically, none of the tanks miror each other, but all the mechanics and skills miror each other by way of each side has the same stuff, just in a different package

so you can play a bo and an ironbreaker and get a completely different play experience even though your playing each groups main tank. those of you that played daoc didnt realy get that with the tank or mele/dps classes, each tank was pretty much the same...though the support and range dps classes were all very much built this way with all the skills spread out amongst each sides pool of classes.

i really like that about how they seem to be building the classes. i really like playing healers and defensive tanks and it looks like im going to be able to play a whole bunch of different characters that use completely different techniques to tank and heal

[MidNight]

Once again viking gets it right.

Mirroring does not mean they are exactly identical. It means at first glance they are identical, but if you look closer the "identical" image is opposite.

The chosen debuffs, the knight buffs. The mechanic is the same but works in an opposite fashion

The black orc uses combo's that seem to focus on disabling while the swordmaster uses combo's that seem to focus on damaging. Notice I used the word "focus". That means its not totally about disabling or damaging.

Finally the Ironbreaker has a meter that grows based on how much his party is attacked and possibly himself. That allows him to go out and do his thing because the meter is growing whether he is attacked or not. The blackguards is a hatred meter that grows when he is attacked. Once again they appear the same but are inherently opposite in nature. I have personally felt that the blackguards hatred attacks and abilities would have to be huge else it would be horribly uneven between the two or it would need a secondary way to grow hatred such as a skill like taunt that when placed if the target doesnt attack the blackguard that his hatred begins to grow. Thus why I think the blackguard is held back, the mechanic needed some tweaking or possible major changes.

between BG and IB i feel IB will be more powerful in RvR because he cant control who hits his party members so if you dont kill him first he just does massive dmg. then on the other side BG will be better PvE tank b/c he will be taking all the dmg from mobs and just gain alot of hate. unless they change the mechanics on hatred and i really hope they do b/c BG will be less of a threat in RvR and thats what game is...

but thats just my opinion

[iCanada]

between BG and IB i feel IB will be more powerful in RvR because he cant control who hits his party members so if you dont kill him first he just does massive dmg. then on the other side BG will be better PvE tank b/c he will be taking all the dmg from mobs and just gain alot of hate. unless they change the mechanics on hatred and i really hope they do b/c BG will be less of a threat in RvR and thats what game is...

but thats just my opinion

I would bet that one could initiate some kind of emo wrist-cut hate builder thing.

[Distaste]

I could have sworn somewhere that ignoring the BG would be a large mistake. I think the hate mechanic builds as long as the BG is in combat not necessarily dependent on him being attacked.

"They are basically very, very dangerous, really hard to kill, and when they get close to you they deal out tons of damage."

I hardly think that stands as just defensive tank when they get near something and put out lots of damage.

[Ganymed]

black guard speciality?

they must be the uber masters of stealth.

they showed themselves once on that newsletter pic, since then they are hiding in the shadows :P

[Foofmonger]

Yea, AoE attacks would be nice. I'd like to see a lot of cool hatred using abilities, but not the kind that make you spend hatred, the ones that just get stronger when u have more.

I think the BG should be the master of attrition. He gets much more powerful over time, etc... Fighting a BG should be about trying to take him out asap before he becomes a nightmare.

[iCanada]

Yea, AoE attacks would be nice. I'd like to see a lot of cool hatred using abilities, but not the kind that make you spend hatred, the ones that just get stronger when u have more.

I think the BG should be the master of attrition. He gets much more powerful over time, etc... Fighting a BG should be about trying to take him out asap before he becomes a nightmare.

Sounds good!

And then at the peak of The BGs hatred he could activate a move which consumes him in hatred slowley draining the BGs hatred till it is gone while increasing the BGs attack stats emensivley and making him squishy!

[ChosenOne]

Yea, AoE attacks would be nice. I'd like to see a lot of cool hatred using abilities, but not the kind that make you spend hatred, the ones that just get stronger when u have more.

I think the BG should be the master of attrition. He gets much more powerful over time, etc... Fighting a BG should be about trying to take him out asap before he becomes a nightmare.

Oh my god, we agree!

Only question left to this is how will you have their hatred meter go back down? Over time when out of combat?

[iCanada]

Oh my god, we agree!

Only question left to this is how will you have their hatred meter go back down? Over time when out of combat?

Yeah, then there could be Hatred using attacks.