Ranged dps speed

[Origomar]

This is just a thought but will diffrent classes have diffrent speeds? By this i mean a healer or something will start at the average speed of 100% and tanks will get a lower % so they can be kited better and easier to be killed off by ranged dps. And will the melee dps get an increased speed of lets say 130% so they can close in on people while the ranged dps only get a 115% or 120 % So they can still kite tanks and melee healers..but not be able to move fast enough to run away from the melee dps.

[Kilrogg-WHA]

Runspeed is standardized across all classes.

Having different classes have difference runspeeds would be a balance nightmare

[SlavaPolska]

I believe all careers get a sprint ability also.

[Origomar]

Well i just figured that becaues they said that the ranged dps would be able to hurt the tanks at range with no problem but i dont see how thats happening without atleast giving ranged dps debuffs that could afflict the tanks/melee dps speeds :-/

[Gemini]

Well i just figured that becaues they said that the ranged dps would be able to hurt the tanks at range with no problem but i dont see how thats happening without atleast giving ranged dps debuffs that could afflict the tanks/melee dps speeds :-/

Exactly, they get snares and roots and such to slow down the enemy. Then in turn the MDPS have a spring ability as well as their own special way to close the gap, while tanks don't.

[Farqed]

origomar, this is not a slam by any means. but have you ever played a RvR type of MMO?

i've played DAOC/WoW ( DAOC being the Best RvR game on the market atm until WAR hits)

we know the 2 bow users get types of snares. also we know the BW gets a root of some kind.

however DAOC proved RDPS can compeat not having any run speed buffs/debuffs by simply kiting and or hiding/using the layout ( hills/trees/rocks/cows/burning people/random orcs) that are laying around.

[Origomar]

however DAOC proved RDPS can compeat not having any run speed buffs/debuffs by simply kiting and or hiding/using the layout ( hills/trees/rocks/cows/burning people/random orcs) that are laying around.
I didnt take it as a slam and i have and in WoW let me tell you if your a ranged dps it is alot easier for melee and physical damage to win and thus it is imbalanced and thats why i want to play warhammer.
But you did bring up something important you said useing not just the layout but also radom orcs and cows. Can you not move through npcs and other players or is it like wow where you can just walk right through them?

[Farqed]

well that was my bad attempt at humor. but as far as i know there is going to be some kind of collision detection in game at release

[Origomar]

Soz :( If i had caught up on it i wouldve played along but im a little slow.

[Origomar]

And thats a good sign because i was just thinking about when they said that the tank would be able to "Keep dpsers away from the healer" I was wondering how they would do that without something like that? Stuns maybe slowing affects but theres a certain degree where that just gets annoying having a tank CC you...

[Blackjack]

Giving a ranged class "in-combat" run speed, higher than that of a melee character, can lead to ridiculous imbalance. If it is not a short timed ability, with a cooldown.
In DAoC (and, it sounds like WAR aswell) they had the sprint system. Which creates a myriad of tactics to be used by classes with the ability to kite (and all other classes for that matter). Since, as a basis, all classes would have the same amount of stamina to sprint. The ranged damage dealers, most likely having started from a distance. A distance the melee class would have to cover, to reach them. Would have a slight advantage, while a melee'r would have to choose; sprint all the way there, to limit damage done. OR simply run over and start sprinting when the attacker starts to kite. But since stamina was used, both by sprint AND when using special attack abilities. There was a constant fluctuation in who had the upperhand, in an escape situation. There was different buffs, pots and abilities gained through certain classes, crafting or RvR, that would increase the amount of time a character could sprint, by improving the recovery time of the stamina bar.
And since ANY ranged attack would be interrupted if you were to be hit in DAoC. Sprint should be plenty of help for ranged attackers in WAR, where you are not instantly interrupted in your attack when hit.
All that being said, i'm not in the beta. I don't know how the mechanics work. And i'll trust mythic to balance the game.

PS; In a game like Archlord, some ranged classes would have in-combat speed increases, and speed debuffs for the enemy. And lets just say i found this a very bad solution.

[Kaeldor]

And thats a good sign because i was just thinking about when they said that the tank would be able to "Keep dpsers away from the healer" I was wondering how they would do that without something like that? Stuns maybe slowing affects but theres a certain degree where that just gets annoying having a tank CC you...

From the vids shown so far, ranged DPS have snares, roots and knockbacks to get away from tanks and MSDPS. As other said you also have sprint (as all other archtypes). But on the other hand, if a tank really catches up to you he probalby can do a lot of awful things to you, like knocking you down, and also probably snares and roots.

RDPS seems to have a slightly easier time against tanks, and having it harder against MSDPS (because those guys have ways to get to you fast). If you think RDPS was in a bad situation against melee in WoW, probalby you'll feel the same in WAR. The only major difference could be that your tank has more ways too help you in WAR than they had in WoW.

Also if you really don't like to feel powerless agaisnt a melee class who catches up to you, you might want to have a look at either the engineer or the shadow warrior, which both have more melee potential than the bright wizard, who is the glas cannon among order. (At least as far as we know now)

[impulsebooks]

Also if you really don't like to feel powerless agaisnt a melee class who catches up to you, you might want to have a look at either the engineer or the shadow warrior


I agree with you about feeling powerless to cope with melee a lot of the time. Its a shame that the only options for a range player is to go non-magic order classes :( My first thought when I saw the dwarf engineer for the first time was... "Thank god, fnally a range class with some survivablility against melee." I still have good feelings for the engineer and he will definitly be an alt for me -- may even evolve into my main if the magic users dissapoint.

[Kaeldor]

I agree with you about feeling powerless to cope with melee a lot of the time. Its a shame that the only options for a range player is to go non-magic order classes :( My first thought when I saw the dwarf engineer for the first time was... "Thank god, fnally a range class with some survivablility against melee." I still have good feelings for the engineer and he will definitly be an alt for me -- may even evolve into my main if the magic users dissapoint.

<--- played a fire mage three years in WoW. I know what you mean. One reason why I'll try the SW first this time.

[impulsebooks]

<--- played a fire mage three years in WoW. I know what you mean. One reason why I'll try the SW first this time.

Snap! My main was a mage (i love magic. I read a lot of fantasy about such things and write it too now and then) in WOW.

I did play alts but always spent most of my time with my mage. I've played many other games now, but I really can't help wanting to play ranged. I'm addicted to choosing my targets rather than being attacked close in and having to react. The worst thin about being a nuker is the total lack of survivability. I would rather have lower dps now and a bit more armour... experaince I suppose. Back then of course I thought dmage was the be all and end all. No longer I hasten to add.

[Kaeldor]

Snap! My main was a mage (i love magic. I read a lot of fantasy about such things and write it too now and then) in WOW.

I did play alts but always spent most of my time with my mage. I've played many other games now, but I really can't help wanting to play ranged. I'm addicted to choosing my targets rather than being attacked close in and having to react.

Hehe, same for me (except that I don't write myself). I've played magic users almost all the time in RPG/MMOs since a long time. I'm also not good with alts, I usually only really play one character per game.

The worst thin about being a nuker is the total lack of survivability. I would rather have lower dps now and a bit more armour... experaince I suppose. Back then of course I thought dmage was the be all and end all. No longer I hasten to add.

Yeah, although lacking survivability is part of the fun, it get's annoying after a while. After playing a mage type for such a long time, I think playing someone who a) can shoot and move, and b) has a least some melee skills, will be a refreshing experience. And I also have always liked ranger/archer types anyway. Although Bright Wizard/Soceress still are very attractive, I'm going for the a bit more survavibility, a bit less damage type this time. Hope it really turns out to be like that.

[Origomar]

Im thinking of getting a real life friend to help me play because if we were to play together me being a bright wizard and him being a archmage we would do very well because they both probably have snares and if either of us get low he can just pop in a heal while im (That is if i get decent at the class XD)Burning the living hell out of everyone who gets too close to me with fire breath aoes and detonations.

[Origomar]

Yeah, although lacking survivability is part of the fun, it get's annoying after a while. After playing a mage type for such a long time, I think playing someone who a) can shoot and move, and b) has a least some melee skills, will be a refreshing experience. And I also have always liked ranger/archer types anyway. Although Bright Wizard/Soceress still are very attractive, I'm going for the a bit more survavibility, a bit less damage type this time. Hope it really turns out to be like that.
I just hope they dont do the same thing they did with WoW makeing the ranged projectile classes do immense damage AND give them things like too many CCs and survivability and dps above the mage classes :(
But mythic seems to know what they are doing and hopefully they wont screw this up and make projectile ranged dps sooo much better than magic ranged dps.

[Dark-Angel]

Im thinking of getting a real life friend to help me play because if we were to play together me being a bright wizard and him being a archmage we would do very well because they both probably have snares and if either of us get low he can just pop in a heal while im (That is if i get decent at the class XD)Burning the living hell out of everyone who gets too close to me with fire breath aoes and detonations.

dont forget BW also have a clase quarter combat AoE that knocks back poeple :)

[Origomar]

dont forget BW also have a clase quarter combat AoE that knocks back poeple :)
By knockback do you mean like actually KNOCKING them into the air and back a few 30-50 or so feet :O?

[Kaeldor]

By knockback do you mean like actually KNOCKING them into the air and back a few 30-50 or so feet :O?

Yup, don't know how far the range is in feet, but the fly back through the air a bit.
Watch the developer interview linked below, and you can see a SW doing a knockback, and also a bright wizard snaring Marauders (quite at the end of the vid if I remember right) ;)

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/warhammeronline/news.html?sid=6186104&autoplay=6186186&tag=topslot;link;1

[Origomar]

Yup, don't know how far the range is in feet, but the fly back through the air a bit.
Watch the developer interview linked below, and you can see a SW doing a knockback, and also a bright wizard snaring Marauders (quite at the end of the vid if I remember right) ;)

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/warhammeronline/news.html?sid=6186104&autoplay=6186186&tag=topslot;link;1
The snare i saw and was obviously a bright wizard but the knock back was done by something with a bow or better yet you can base the knockback not just near you but tell it where to explode and send everything in the opposite direction of it flying away from the spot

[Kaeldor]

The snare i saw and was obviously a bright wizard but the knock back was done by something with a bow or better yet you can base the knockback not just near you but tell it where to explode and send everything in the opposite direction of it flying away from the spot

Yup the knockback was done by the SW (Shadow Warrior) as I said, and I think it was the with his sword, or at least that's what I think. Could be wrong though, as you said the explosion makes it hard to see. That was just to give you an impression how far a knockback let's soemone fly in the game.

[Origomar]

Ohhh you did say SW...for some reason i just think BW...got B and S mixed up i suppose but nice to know that the ranged dps gets some cool knockback :)

[Kaeldor]

...i suppose but nice to know that the ranged dps gets some cool knockback :)

Yup, yup!! :D