Non circular shields for Ironbreakers?

[Blunt]

I understand that round shields are a staple of dwarven defense, and you wouldn't see an Ironbreaker on the TT without one. However, I was wondering if it would be lore breaking for IBs to use something other than a round shield. To me it seems a little bit bland in terms of styling.

Would it be too blasphemous for an Ironbreaker to be running around with a tower or kite shield?

[Dagoth]

About as much as running around with a sword.

[Pandemonium]

owned lol (too short)

[Grondoth]

While it may seem bland, it's no more bland than every warrior priest having some sort of hammer, or every swordmaster having some sort of sword.

The thing about warhammer classes is that they are very specific things in the warhammer world, and that necessitates a strict stylistic pattern for them. Sure, there's probably going to be lots of variations on sheilds and armour and weapons, but an Ironbreaker can't be running around with big honkin' square tower shields, or a heater, or a kite. That's just not the type of shield a ironbreaker uses. There may be variations in size, or shape, but in the end I wouldn't expect to see an IB with a shield that isn't round.

[thedan]

Well, dwarves use round shields and axes/hammers.
they typically dont rock swords or square shields.
they may be able to use some square shields, but their primary sets probably won't include them

[032125]

Au contraire, mon fair. Note exhibit A:

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm16dwfiron.htm

What is and what was should both be considered, for variety's sake. Says me, anyway. :dwarf:

[nameiturself]

Shut down!

[Grondoth]

Au contraire, mon fair. Note exhibit A:

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm16dwfiron.htm

What is and what was should both be considered, for variety's sake. Says me, anyway. :dwarf:

Hmm. I stand corrected, but those are ye olde models. I donno if we'll see things like that in game.

[032125]

Well to be totally honest, GW has made a concerted effort in the last 10 years to push Dwarfs away from that look. In the Marauder (a division of GW) days the sculpters were encouraged to go for just about any creative idea that struck them, like the dwarf on skis or the greek Slayer in a toga. Some of those sculpts were meant to reflect the cultural cross pollination between the Empire and Dwarf peoples. It's kind of sad really, there were a lot of characterful models that are still a blast to paint.

Anyhow GW decided to get away from that, and focus on a more Norse/Celtic/Gallic theme for Dwarfs, which is still the case. I suppose you could make the arguement that these are no longer canonical.

[Despero]

Whether dwarves traditionally use round shields exclusively is one of those minor details that should be completely disregarded for the sake of player variety (and increased player satisfaction).

[032125]

Whether dwarves traditionally use round shields exclusively is one of those minor details that should be completely disregarded for the sake of player variety (and increased player satisfaction).
{Insert slippery slope arguement here.}

[Lareit]

No, he's right. The number of people who will be frustrated by a minor(if any real deviation) from Ironbreaker lore compared to the ones who'll grow bored with having circular shields from day 1 to the end will be fairly lopsided.

In the end it is a game, gameplay often has to trounce lore in order for many things.

[Blunt]

No, he's right. The number of people who will be frustrated by a minor(if any real deviation) from Ironbreaker lore compared to the ones who'll grow bored with having circular shields from day 1 to the end will be fairly lopsided.

In the end it is a game, gameplay often has to trounce lore in order for many things.

My thoughts precisely. I understand this is ultimately a lore issue, but compared to some of the other ones we have seen lately, it is incredibly minor. If you think about it, Oathbearer Ironbreakers are not like regular Ironbreakers. We have sworn an oath to the king to kill baddies, get loot for weapons, and pretty much avenge the loss of 8 peaks.

It seems unrealistic to me if I find a shield as "loot" while banishing some skaven skum in a dungeon and every single shield I find is round.

[032125]

It's important to keep a realistic perspective on "lore" - GW has displayed a proclivity for changing lore when it suits them. If they can change the lore to introduce new models and turn a profit, they will. Why then should anyone caterwal about lore? because it's the lore version that suits them, or because they don't realize that it wasn't always so.

I personally like roundshields, because I like norse art and asthetics, but that's just me.

[Amoracchius]

Haha, you hit it right on the head. I wouldn't want kite or tower shields, not because it breaks lore, but because it would look awful being held by a dwarf.

[Chasington]

I wouldn't mind having a dwarf with a tower shield, one of those that have a little curvature to follow around your body. I wish I could find a picture, but oh well.

Not saying I don't like the round shields, they're cool, my point is people have different tastes. Therefor we should get a bit of variety.

[Amoracchius]

Oh absolutely. I'm not saying they shouldn't be in the game as much as i'm saying i wouldnt care one bit if there weren't any shields but round ones.

[Festo]

i dont care what kind of shield it is as long as its HUGE

like as big as my body huge

i hate tiny shields

[Gemini]

To be fair, a shield being as big as your body and a shield being huge are two different things. Remember, your short, you don't really need a tall shield :P

[Chasington]

Well yeah, I think he's just saying he wants it proportionally huge. And I agree ;)

[Festo]

Well yeah, I think he's just saying he wants it proportionally huge. And I agree ;)

what he said :D

[Bûrri]

In the 'Grudgelore' book, there's a piece about Ironbreakers :


They are known to use tunnel-shields to completely block off small tunnels, either forming a temporary 'wall of steel', or to push the enemy back.
The shields are broad, with slots in them to shoot through.

To me that suggests a tower shield, at least as an option.

[Arcton]

I really don't mind either way, so long as the round shields have enough variation in their appearances to have different flavors.

[Bruticus]

Aye I think it should be allowed to use what ye'd like, but fer me? Round or nothin' me friends. ;)

~Brute

[Xin]

if they are making loot genaric, IE everyone can get the same stuff, then whats to stop a black orc from getting one of those fancy round ones that you guys use, or vice versa? can you imagine an IB running around with a part of a fence that seems to be so common in pictures of Black orcs? I know it gets better, but even in the begining, that would be rediculous.

[Foofmonger]

To be fair, a shield being as big as your body and a shield being huge are two different things. Remember, your short, you don't really need a tall shield :P

Shhhh, don't tell them that.

Its going to be really easy to kill the dumb ones who get their massive shields stuck in the ground.

[Okri]

if they are making loot genaric


They're not.

[Xin]

so all loot will have a specific class and look for that class depending on who equips it? that sounds pretty cool, will there be any problems with getting the right loot for your class? I come from WoW where they did something like that with there t1-3.

[Gemini]

so all loot will have a specific class and look for that class depending on who equips it? that sounds pretty cool, will there be any problems with getting the right loot for your class? I come from WoW where they did something like that with there t1-3.

You don't seem to quite understand, it's not depending on who equips it, it is completely class specific. A weapon might only be for Hammerers, or only for Bright Wizards, and no one besides that single class can equip it.

[Jonesy]

From my understanding, the distinction is this:

WoW: Group of five does a dungeon, kills a boss, [Mace of Obvious Shaman-ness] drops, other four people go, "oh, that's useless for me, grats I guess"*

WAR: Group of six does some PQ, kills a boss, big treasure chest falls from the sky, everyone rolls, someone wins, opens chest and it goes, "congratulations, have something useful to you"

*obviously there is no Hunter in this group

It's more a matter of "looting" the "right" to a piece of equipment that suits your class, rather than winning a specific item over other people. I think...

[Xin]

You don't seem to quite understand, it's not depending on who equips it, it is completely class specific. A weapon might only be for Hammerers, or only for Bright Wizards, and no one besides that single class can equip it.

what I was talking about was our MC raid sharding a ton of shaman drops because they always dropped and all our shamans got there gear early on. so while our hunters didnt get there helm yet, at all, the shaman one would keep dropping.... made playing kinda obnoxious.

[Xin]

*obviously there is no Hunter in this group



so what you're saying is there are no "hunter" weapons? haha, man i hated those arguements.

[Laz]

...Anyhow GW decided to get away from that, and focus on a more Norse/Celtic/Gallic theme for Dwarfs, which is still the case. I suppose you could make the arguement that these are no longer canonical.That was my observation and the argument I was going to make... The round shield feels better with the Dwarf Culture, IMO... Kites and tower shields just somehow don't look right in my mind... But I'm the last person to want to impose my opinions on style over others...

Maybe Mythic will give us a choice - I kinda doubt it though since GW is overviewing such issues...

[lnquisitor]

There really is no lore on how an army can look. If I wanted to make a TT army I can customize its shields to anything I please.
Maybe it is just because I play these guys.
(http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm90cdwf.htm)

[Daoloth]

That was my observation and the argument I was going to make... The round shield feels better with the Dwarf Culture, IMO... Kites and tower shields just somehow don't look right in my mind... But I'm the last person to want to impose my opinions on style over others...

Maybe Mythic will give us a choice - I kinda doubt it though since GW is overviewing such issues...

I would imagine that the round shields are more of a functional adaptation to fighting in tunnels. Square shields have pointy bits, and they'd probably get snagged on roots or crevices. Round shields? No problem.

[Harlequin70]

Ironbreakers should have round shields because it suits the style in the same way that Single edged spikey swords suit Dark Elves and Scalemail suits High Elves.
If they didn't have these things they wouldn't be what they are.

There are style guides people are given when creating new artwork etc for universes in Games/Film/Television that they have to stick to. M:tG people who follow the the Wizards website should know about this.

[Blunt]

I do not disagree with the fact that round shield suit the look of the Ironbreaker. By all means IB's should be able to wield a circular shield. I'm just asking for a little bit of variety for those of us who don't fancy the shields as much.

[Ebslike]

*obviously there is no Hunter in this group


Lulz :D

(to short)

[yarn ironthumb]

In the 'Grudgelore' book, there's a piece about Ironbreakers :


They are known to use tunnel-shields to completely block off small tunnels, either forming a temporary 'wall of steel', or to push the enemy back.
The shields are broad, with slots in them to shoot through.

To me that suggests a tower shield, at least as an option.

I have got to get grudgelore someday! It's written by guys related to GW, right?

Well... It's in grudgelore, so... ;)

anyone ever considered oval shields..? And tower and kite shields with a round top and bottom?
Though it looks different from the GW IB look, I certainy won't mind if there are a few non-circular shields, as long as most shields will be round.

[loopgru]

Obligatory:
Hunters can't use maces, so the mace of obvious shaman-ness is safe. ;)

Shield shape:
Round shields are usually constructed in a manner called "center boss" in which there is a roughly head-sized center metal hand guard (think a basket hilt on a sword, but bigger and beefier) with the larger wooden shield arrayed around it, often with a metal rim around the wood.

Why is this important? Think about a kite shield, like on those older-than-dirt dwarf models linked a page or two back. Two arm straps, designed to hang off of your forearm and give you something to hide behind laterally.

Now, think about a center boss shield. It's designed to move with you much more easily, but, more importantly, you can punch people in the face with it.

And that, in a nutshell, is why Ironbreakers need round, center boss shields, and no substitutes will be accepted.

[Bûrri]

Now, think about a center boss shield. It's designed to move with you much more easily, but, more importantly, you can punch people in the face with it.



I have to admit it, that in itself answers any argument I had.

And, while I'm too lazy right now to go find the relevant passage in the Oathbreaker novel, I do seem to remember shields being used quite offensively, in particular the edge used to decapitate goblins.

However, I'd still like to see a bit of choice. Perhaps mastery-dependant shields ?
Those going for a more defensive stance have bigger heavier shields, those planning on being more attacking a lighter one, with stats adjusted to style ?

[logicalmayhem]

ya hope they can workout somthing ive seen other threads on that

[Festo]

shield punching eh?



i retract my previous statement from months ago


round shield ftw