worrying eurogamer preview comments

[Bloodboil]

"Crucially - and very worryingly - when you're sat in front of Warhammer Online, excitement at all those big and clever idea starts to ebb. Whether questing or playing realm-versus-realm scenarios, combat feels sluggish, vague, and painfully lacking in tactile reward: the sound, particularly, is poor, devoid of both impact and information."

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=129923&page=2 (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=129923&page=2)

sluggish combat
lacking in tactile reward
poor sound

the previewer also says the world doesn't "feel" right and the animations need to be more fluid

whats going on lol?

[Labhoix]

"Improving that "feel" is exactly what Hickman says the recent delay of the game's release to the end of 2008 is about. We'd say Mythic, EA and GOA made absolutely the right decision, Lich King or no Lich King. Warhammer Online deserves that extra level of polish and as clever as it is, the game needs it. Until then, those big ideas are enough - just - to make it worth keeping the faith."

[dumpsterdan]

almost sounds wow fanboyish but slap my wrists if i am out of line here.

[ManiaCCC]

Really can't care less about this preview .. they don't even know difference between PvP and RvR :) ..and mentoing wow for every aspect.. lame ...

[Grimald]

Its so WoW fanboish i wouldn't worry about it, they bring wow up at every chance.

" It's as if someone has taken WOW's world and drained half the colour, atmosphere and liveliness from it"

><

[Grondoth]

I also liked the mastery is identical to talent trees bit. And the comments, with everyone blaming everyone from GW to Mythic to EA on why the game looks the way it does. I happen to think the game world's shaping up nicely, and they haven't even got all the things that will make it look great in yet. I also liked the commenters complaining about things that could only be understood if you actually played the game and read quests and the tome and explored a bit, like asking where the pain and unfairness was, where the horror was, where the cruelty of the orcs is. I mean, come on. You don't get that from screenshots.

But on topic. Remember that anything you hear from the press Mythic has probably heard. And polish is all about those things: feeling smooth, feeling rewarding, feeling right. As Jeff Hickman said himself in an interview with Eurogamer:

"...The moment you step in the game, how does it look, what does the UI look like? What happens when I start to move? What's the most used action in the game? Swinging your sword, casting your spell, those combat type actions. Man, that had better be hot s***. Like, it's got to feel great. And so those are all the pieces that we're just tweaking and polishing and making sure that they're just exactly how we want them to feel. That's what this extra time is about."

Is it a bit worrysome? I suppose. I mean, that's a serious problem for a game to have. But they're well aware of some people thinking this way, and have pushed the game back so that they can fully address those things. So don't think that they're blissfully going ahead without addressing those issues. And unlike the reviewer, people have probably pointed out what's actually wrong in a tactile sense, because they had more time to play and analyze the game.

[oopsieoopsie]

Oh, you're wasting your time bringing up any negative coments here. They keep going on about WoW fanbois, totaly oblivious to themselves being WAR fanbois. ( I'm not saying everyone here is a fanboi, but you've gotta admit the forum has a high percentage of fanatics )

I've seen many videos of WAR and I agree with most of what the review says.

Whether questing or playing realm-versus-realm scenarios, combat feels sluggish, vague, and painfully lacking in tactile reward: the sound, particularly, is poor, devoid of both impact and information.

That's pretty much the main problem I have with WAR its self. There's a viceral feel I get from playing or watching WoW. I've not had that yet with anything I've seen of WAR.

Then theres the graphical problems. WAR has a much higher poly count and better quality textures than WoW, yet some things I've seen look so much like a giant cube with a texture put on, its shocking bad.

But, plenty of things can be improved in the six-ish months till release. I'm enjoying WoW now, hope to enjoy WAR soon. :D

[TickTock]

" It's as if someone has taken WOW's world and drained half the colour, atmosphere and liveliness from it"

This comment makes me think that the writer knows nothing about the Warhammer world. And I don't remember WoW's World being very lively.

Also, to anyone worrying about the graphics, I point you to this (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/29629).

[Zul]

But, plenty of things can be improved in the six-ish months till release. I'm enjoying WoW now, hope to enjoy WAR soon. :D

This right here will pretty much destroy any decent arguments you have to 75% of the people here.

[Dagoth]

Oh, you're wasting your time bringing up any negative coments here. They keep going on about WoW fanbois, totaly oblivious to themselves being WAR fanbois. ( I'm not saying everyone here is a fanboi, but you've gotta admit the forum has a high percentage of fanatics )

I've seen many videos of WAR and I agree with most of what the review says.



That's pretty much the main problem I have with WAR its self. There's a viceral feel I get from playing or watching WoW. I've not had that yet with anything I've seen of WAR.

Then theres the graphical problems. WAR has a much higher poly count and better quality textures than WoW, yet some things I've seen look so much like a giant cube with a texture put on, its shocking bad.

But, plenty of things can be improved in the six-ish months till release. I'm enjoying WoW now, hope to enjoy WAR soon. :D

This man speaks the truth.

[Krigare]

And I don't remember WoW's World being very lively.

Yeah exactly. Maybe its because I've played the game for 3+ years but I don't particularly think WoW has much of an atmosphere or liveliness to it. People need to realize that a game doesnt have to be colored and stylized like WoW to look good.

Anyway, while the preview could have compared to WoW a little less, it doesnt worry at all. He concludes that the only problems he has with WAR at the moment are exactly what they delayed the game for. He likes the ToK, public quests, and RvR but is disappointed that character customization doesnt change much from WoW. Overall, I feel that the preview has high hopes for WAR as long as Mythic improves on what they have said they are going to improve.

[Ariel]

... and Mythic will end up ruing the day it decided to exclude dancing from the range of emotes.
Yeah, that's just what we need. A magical fairy paradise with elves prancing around merrily in their underwear.

For some reason I don't think this person quite comprehends what he is trying to judge here. I do agree that animations, sounds and all that needs a lot of work and polish before release but this isn't World of WarCraft 2.0. I don't want happy colours, dancing and pop culture references in every corner. In fact, I wish the game looked more dreary. What we need, if anything, is more gruesome details befitting of WarHammer. Screw WarCraft.

[Llamazerker]

This comment makes me think that the writer knows nothing about the Warhammer world. And I don't remember WoW's World being very lively.

Also, to anyone worrying about the graphics, I point you to this (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/29629).

hes trying very hard to bring it down below wow. its fairly obvious. from creating visuals of people pointing fingers at each other becuse whos to blame it looks like wow, constantly talking about wow, to the very obvious enviroment quote you pulled.

to the best of my knowledge no ones been pointing fingers at whos to blame for it looking like wow. wow was based off of warhammer, everyone and their mother knew they would look alike from the get-go. this is as much its strong-suit as it is its weakness. it is easily marketable to those who play wow.

though, i will let him take his little jabs at the combat system, animation, and polish feel, but we're talkign about a game set for 6 months from now.

[TickTock]

Krigare, I read your LOTRO Sig as "Hamburgler"....Damn you!

[Grimald]

imo the graphics in War are alot less cartoony and alot more crisp as well as the fact they don't have stupid looking cartoon armour they have armour that looks like it could be used properly (no ones walking around with stupid lime green ankle wraps and all that)

[Maddawg]

Yeah I have got the impression from vids and elsewhere that combat does look sluggish. That being said though, considering the game is still 6 months or so from release this should be easily fixed if the developers agree its an issue (along with the sound). Considering the game is in beta though they were a little harsh I think, they should have taken that more so into consideration.

[Sockerbit]

Almost 100% of the times, there is a bad preview-review of the game you think will save the world, apparently people have different taste.

"If Warhammer Online is lacking one thing, it's "feel". Improving that "feel" is exactly what Hickman says (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=128856) the recent delay of the game's release to the end of 2008 is about. We'd say Mythic, EA and GOA made absolutely the right decision, Lich King or no Lich King. Warhammer Online deserves that extra level of polish and as clever as it is, the game needs it. Until then, those big ideas are enough - just - to make it worth keeping the faith."

Great, now can people PLEASE, stop theorizing why they delayed the game!

So now they have months of of working on these things, I hardly think there will be no feel bu then.

[Llamazerker]

Almost 100% of the times, there is a bad preview-review of the game you think will save the world, apparently people have different taste.

but we warhammer fans are slightly more inclined to burn them for heresy :p

[Grimald]

its looking slugging cause people ain't hopping about like mad idiots and trying to stay away from people. When you see videos they are basicly going toe to toe all the time, but that problem due to the auto face, which wow doesn't have which is why people jump and run so much before they can make people miss their attack or not cast a spell because they ain't infront of them.

[Wolfbane]

This game has 3 major problems.
1) Immersion. < That is a complicated issue, lighting and better animations are going to improve the feeling.
2) Balance. < That's what Beta is for. Balancing. But it's a bit worse than X does 4% more damage than Y.
3) Combat dynamic. < Enough said.

[Llamazerker]

This game has 3 major problems if it were to release now
1) Immersion. < That is a complicated issue, lighting and better animations are going to improve the feeling.
2) Balance. < That's what Beta is for. Balancing. But it's a bit worse than X does 4% more damage than Y.
3) Combat dynamic. < Enough said.

corrected that for you.

[Thomassil]

Well thecombat looks somewhat static now,

but the environments en atmosphere look great to be honest. I´m kinda happy with a more sinister and dark game then all fluffy teletubby graphics.

Let´s just hope that they will polish the game :)


I played the LOTRO Beta and the sound was rubbish at first, but I think it has turned out well for that game. Then again I don't play LOTRO anymore because of it's gameplay. An MMO really depends on it's gameplay. When the gameplay ain't fluid and polished the game likely will go down the drain as soon as the excitement is gone :)

[Zeldias]

Game looks gorgeous, some of the nicest animations I've seen in a long time, probably ever, in an MMO. Usually I'm the sort of person that likes exaggerated art styles in my games (Think Romancing SaGa for PS2 or Jet Set Radio), but I think WAR trumps WoW in this respect. Although WoW has the sort of fantastic look I usually go for, WAR manages to combine fantastic with believable, if that makes sense. Like how the Swordmaster looks; he's outrageous, but it's done in such a way that he doesn't completely stand out like he might were he in WoW.

The only thing I worried about is that WoW had some of the smoothest feeling combat I've played. I think it was just a good mix of insta-cast skills, cast time skills, and freedom of movement in general. The only other game that felt about as smooth to me was AO. I'm comparing this to LotrO's habit of making attacks take up your next normal attack and so on. And WAR even looks to have that down.

I'm pretty excited. :-DI think the guy doing the preview might just be a bit too used to WoW.

EDIT: I am terrified about the sound bit, though. That's the thing that broke the camel's back for me when I did play LotrO. I need to have some hardcore painful sounds and sweeping music. Like when I first walked into Stormwind and heard the song, I was like "Damn, this is the place to be." I want that feeling with major cities in WAR. And when I'm fighting a guy I want it to sound like a fight, not some dude tapping a tin can with a salad fork.

[Elleranda]

When you see videos they are basicly going toe to toe all the time, but that problem due to the auto face

Au... auto face..?

...

:cry:

[Grondoth]

Au... auto face..?

...

:cry:


Probably not as bad as you think. It seems to only occur when someone's casting something, they kinda turn to follow the target a bit.

[Stax]

----------------
"I am terrified about the sound bit, though."
----------------

The thing with sound is, you can change it to you hearth's content, nothing else in the game is going to break because of it.

This makes it the perfect candidate for the VERY LAST thing to take care of during game development. Changing anything else(game mechanics, quests, RvR) might break different related stuff, but toying around with sound is generally safe.

That's why i'm not very worried about how the game sounds today, and, to a lesser degree, how it looks today, because the final polish to these is most likely not yet done.

[Arrandor]

I am a long standing fan of Warhammer (off and online), Camelot and WoW and I actually enjoyed both articles (including the Jeff Hickman interview that is linked from this one).

I especially liked the fact that the Warhammer sense of humour is in the game, not surprising really, with Paul's involvement ;-)

I can't really comment on most of the articles concerns because I haven't really seen enough video or played the game, but against what I have seen there was one comment that did resonate with me; "the artwork is quite plain and characterless".

I had a niggling concern about this too, especially after watching some of the internal city videos, as they reminded me of some of the internal city areas of Camelot, where the look and feel was quite flat, and I don't think they have to be overly cartoony, like WoW to get a more fuller look. I am confident a good polish will sort this out and I am sure the recent delay, is in-part due to just this.

At the end of the day we all want a great game, including Mythic, and if this article causes Mythic to revisit the blander areas of the game, including some of the sound effects if needed, is that such a bad thing, especially if the released game is going to win over both us and the neutral folks.

[dutch_gamer]

Yeah, that's just what we need. A magical fairy paradise with elves prancing around merrily in their underwear.

With the inclusion of dance it doesn't have to mean people can dance around in their underwear. In DAoC they had a simple dance but your character wore normal base clothes, not underwear. If the real problem with dancing is about underwear, I think it is silly of Mythic to exclude it. All they need is a simple dance, no way to dance in certain areas, and no text spam every time one activates dance. This way it is pretty much just like dueling in specific areas. I really don't understand why so many people have issues with a dance emote. I think it is nonsense that nobody in the Warhammer would ever dance. The dances don't have to be related to our culture, even the simple "tada" dance of DAoC is more than enough.

For the rest I don't entirely agree with Eurogamer, but I usually don't with their articles. The smoothness of combat is awkward because Mythic is running many tools in the background for testing purposes. And I truly disagree with the atmosphere part. The last thing I want to see are WoW's color. This game should like Warhammer, not WoW. And from footage alone you can tell there actually is liveliness in the game, just look at one of the of Altdorf videos with a cat chasing a rat, with a barrel moving because there is a rat or Skaven inside.

[Wolfbane]

corrected that for you.If it were to release now, than these would be Devs' problems =) Even if the game is still in Beta it remains a game.
Probably not as bad as you think. It seems to only occur when someone's casting something, they kinda turn to follow the target a bit.
No. Just an auto face.

[Terranigma]

Don't it's valid to bring up that WoW-Fanboi stuff just because some author dares to criticise the game's current state. Actual, it's pretty nice to read someone who talks about the negative aspects of the game - I get sic when I only read about the greatness of the game. Why? Because I dislike it that most magazines only talk about what's standing on the paper instead of that, what's actual ingame. On the paper, most things sound nice but the implementation can fail nevertheless.
Even complaining about the balance is a valid argument - Why? Well, because the overall way a game works is set in stone. You cannot turn a WoW into a balanced Mass-PvP game because the game's overall design just doesn't fit. And if Zerging is the best tactic in WAR, just for example, it will be really hard to change this issue. Balancing is far more than just adjusting a few numbers. Of course it doesn't make any sense to complain that a BrightWizard might be far stronger than a Magus, I guess they will do a good job here. But if a game feels dumb and when you got the feeling you can easily overrun your enemies just by having more players, to chance this or other problems won't be solved just by changing a few skills.

So, well, yes - I like this arcticle? Why? Obviously, finding someone who criticises the game is really hard to find and you may belive it or not, WAR won't be perfect and it will be bad in certain aspects, some features just won't work or won't be fun. That's true for every MMO and I don't see any reason why WAR should be that different. Well and then again, it's nice to read someone who talks about the game and how it is instead of talking about how it should be.
Great ideas don't make a great game, eh.

I've heard something similiar in a german podcast 'bout the game, that most things sound just great and amazing but well, they haven't seen most of this things or they didn't worked out well at the moment. I really hope we will play what we've read about.

For the rest I don't entirely agree with Eurogamer, but I usually don't with their articles. The smoothness of combat is awkward because Mythic is running many tools in the background for testing purposes. And I truly disagree with the atmosphere part. The last thing I want to see are WoW's color. This game should like Warhammer, not WoW.

Uh, what do tools have to do with the sluggish combat? I've heard sees concern a few times and judging from the videos, I guess it's a valid point. I doesn't look like it feels very well, fluid at all. And I guess the author doesn't say he wants a more WoW like world but more an interessting and atmospheric world. What we've seen so far seems to suffer from this lack of atmosphere and it may look like Warhammer but well, than it just looks lifeless in a more Warhammer way which isn't anything better.
;)

[KGBmarinac]

I think it should be a bit more static than WoW.
Wow is indeed more smooth but also far more based on 1vs 1 and solo Pvp.
While WAR is 6vs6 or 50vs 50, if you get to have the combat system of WoW, it'll become a big chaos imo, people jumping around everywhere, 10 people insta-nuking 1 person every time, etc

[ManiaCCC]

Well..when I read this:
"The character classes (or "careers" - WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on)"

I just knew the preview is biased and writen by people who don't like WAR so much ..aka fanboy.

Terranigma, while I agree that hyping the papper greatness of the game is not really good but "ing" about game without any real arguments is just biased opinion of author... Is there some good and true points about the state of the game?..definitely yes..but it's really that bad how his described it... really not.. there is also lot of BS which is just hurting the game without reason (while speaking how WoW great is... biased as hell)

[Stax]

I wonder to what degree this 'static-ness' people say they feel from the videos that isn't present in WoW might actually be caused by the fact that WAR, unlike WoW, has collision detection between enemy players... e.g. it is not possible to 'run through' an enemy character like in other games.

[Terranigma]

Well..when I read this:
"The character classes (or "careers" - WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on)"

I just knew the preview is biased and writen by people who don't like WAR so much ..aka fanboy.

Terranigma, while I agree that hyping the papper greatness of the game is not really good but "ing" about game without any real arguments is just biased opinion of author... Is there some good and true points about the state of the game..definitely yes..but it's really that bad how his described it... really not.. there is also lot of BS which is just hurting the game without reason (while speaking how WoW great is... biased as hell)

I don't think he hypes WoW at all. Yes of course, he refers to WoW but I don't think that's a bad thing keeping in mind it's the most popular and so far, most polished game you can find on the market. I don't like it as well, but when the author complains about WAR's issues I won't call it biased to refer to WoW. I've read many articles and those how hype the game and just seem to hang on Mythic's lips were very biased as well but well, you won't find anymore here in these forums complaining that many, many previews keep talking about how it should be instead of how it actually is.
So, mh, nah - Don't conceive this article as beeing utterly biased and narrow minded. He states that WAR has a lot of great ideas but that many other things don't work out as well as they should - Refering to WoW which set new standards in many aspects.

I don't agree with everything he says as well but I can second his main issues - The lifeless and bald presentation of the game's world and the ostensible sluggish combat. Don't really mind whether they call it level or ranks, careers or classes. Don't understand on the other hand why Mythic ignored these conventions but then again, who cares, eh.
;)


Don't wanns say these things cannot change, in fact they have to change, but he prefers to talk about the games current state instead of what's standing on the paper. I just dislike it when such an article appears and the of course unbiased WAR Community (;)) starts to defend their precious against malicious toungs. As he said in the end, he wishes that Mythic works hard so that their great ideas will be great ingame as well and I really second that and hope that WAR will be as much fun as it sounds.

[Grimald]

I dislike the fact he makes out that WoW has always been awesome, i remember the days there was no battle grounds, only molten core as end game content and leveling was alot harder and unrewarding compared to nowadays (due to not enough quests and the fact levels needed more exp than they do now and hardly any quests rewards were actually useful) Some wow classes were totally pointless or just plain rubbish (druids originally were terrible at doing anything tbh)

He's using WoW as a comparison when WaR is not even through closed beta! WoW was so bad when it first came out it didn't go a day when servers would crashes, patchs needed to be implemented. I think it is biased as he's clearly ignoring how WoW was originally untill they started implementing new stuff, they didn't even have a good rep system originally, it meant nothing except getting other race mounts. He's also including an expansion to since most of the best stuff only came with the expansion or after it.

Look at how well cared for WaR is and its not even public. You can call me a fan boy if you like but i am realisticly comparing how both games were/are at this stage and to me its seems clear WaR is well ahead.

[Lord Horrak]

Grondoth, Ticktock, oopsieoopsie, maniaCCC and Terranigma have said it all.

Favourable preview here, unfavourable preview there ... it can't work for a MMO that is not yet up and running and still in the 'fixing' stages ... we will have to wait and see when the game comes out.

[Zoatibix]

Also, the Old World is going to look less colourful than Wow. The two fantasy settings are very different in that respect.

Grim darkness of the far..er...well...grim fantasy darkness versus a more colourful palate. I mean pink haired gnomes stalking the streets of downtown Mordenheim?

[DarkDweller]

I personally think that one of the things WoW proved was that a game doesn't even have to be that good in order to be insanely popular. I do think, however that they did nail the look and feel of the thing, which certainly hooked me for a while. Ultimately though, it only kept me interested for about a year. Having experienced the PvP element of the game I soon realised the end-game was not what I was hoping for, and promptly cancelled my subscription.

I can also understand where the reviewer is coming from in terms of the drab/dingy colours in the Warhammer world, it's not as bright and vibrant as some other games, particularly WoW, which is one of the things many people liked about it. But to cite this as a major flaw in the game is, I think, him confusing 'fact' with his own opinion. As others have mentioned, the dark, brooding skies, and the grey-ish feel to some of the zones is entirely more fitting with the atmosphere if the IP, and what, I would suggest, more mature gamers are into.

[dutch_gamer]

Well..when I read this:
"The character classes (or "careers" - WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on)"

Those are indeed weird comments. Mythic can't really call Scenarios battlegrounds because DAoC's battlegrounds had nothing to do with fair and balanced fights. Also, the open world is already a battleground, I think it is just a wrong name, even in WoW.

The game isn't called PvP because it isn't just PvP. WAR isn't about fighting for yourself and nobody else, but about fighting for the glory of your whole realm, aka realm pride.

Levels became Ranks because of the previous way the game worked, but also because the word Rank makes far more sense than level, especially when you are a soldier and not an adventurer as in WoW. And the word Career is based on the same thing. It is a career choice to become an Engineer, Warrior Priest, Black Guard, etc, not merely class.

It really isn't about rebranding MMO conventions. People will still call them classes, levels, etc anyway. But that doesn't mean it is something bad when Mythic feels the need to use words that fit the setting much better. It is the same as that, in my opinion, resurrection and dying should be abolished and should be about going unconscious instead. If that is something the author is against, it becomes a rather useless article for my taste.

[NoneSuch]

When he complained about the lack of dancing, I'm not really sure where I stand on the article. I'm not sure I entirely trust infomation when one of the complaints is that he can't dance.

If the other parts of his article are correct, and not just bias because he can't dance I'm happy they've delayed the game to improve it.

[VonLeipzig]

Well this preview of eurogamer shows one thing !

Thank YOU ! for the person responsible at Mythic/EA to postpone the game .

The last 2 years we - the MMORPG players - were bombarded with failed MMO products in the animation department.

Take LOTRO for example: sooooo beautiful views marred by SOOO bad animation graphics. Stiff, lifeless, you reallly had no feeling of controlling your avatar. the same with all latest releases really (a sad sad high point was the last one: Pirates).

OK for one reason or another the most of you dislike Wow, but even as taste differ, we have to agree that the fluid animations and fightings in that game were a blessing. Controlling a rogue was a complete physical affair, with repositioning, stabbing, fighting your foes. It could even be compared with some off line arcade titles.

So grtz to the guys who realized they should polish up the fighting in WAR.

It showed that we were spared of yet another painful MMO animation. We can only expect a perfect score in this field now. As it should be for a RvR game.

[Hoodwink]

When he complained about the lack of dancing, I'm not really sure where I stand on the article. I'm not sure I entirely trust infomation when one of the complaints is that he can't dance.

If the other parts of his article are correct, and not just bias because he can't dance I'm happy they've delayed the game to improve it.

That comment was pretty clearly tongue in cheek.

[Rhianni]

"a more conventional and more permanent Mastery system has been added since early beta. It's identical to WOW's talent trees in almost every respect."

Or perhaps its taken from Mythic's own spec system from DAOC. I really hate previews of games that have no idea what they are talking about.
I read one review that said the good side was called "The Empire" and made up of dwarves, humans, and elves. ug.

[Nerror]

In fact, I wish the game looked more dreary.

Ugh no. Dreary = dull and dull = not fun. Dreary colors will detract from the game. People log on to feel excited, awed, scared, happy, victorious, but certainly not dreary. There's nothing cool about dreary, what-so-ever.

Right now the game doesn't look very vibrant or alive, but I hope that'll change, because like in the DAoC beta, Mythic tends to put in the eyecandy after the other parts of the game work. Dreary brown/grey colors may be realistic, but screw realism IMO, at least in this case.

[Slice]

Okay, so let's clear this up.

1.) You can't change the graphics settings atm, because that's not the point of CB.

2.) Eurogamer is a very biased site. They rate WoW 10/10, and it has pleeeeenty of flaws.

3.) They haven't even started polishing the game yet.

4.) The reviewer is apparently bipolar, because for a page and a half he hails the game as being unique and a contender to WoW's throne, then he bashes it mid-way through page 2, when it's at least 6 months away from release.

[Arpeggi]

I dislike the fact he makes out that WoW has always been awesome, i remember the days there was no battle grounds, only molten core as end game content and leveling was alot harder and unrewarding compared to nowadays (due to not enough quests and the fact levels needed more exp than they do now and hardly any quests rewards were actually useful) Some wow classes were totally pointless or just plain rubbish (druids originally were terrible at doing anything tbh)

He's using WoW as a comparison when WaR is not even through closed beta! WoW was so bad when it first came out it didn't go a day when servers would crashes, patchs needed to be implemented. I think it is biased as he's clearly ignoring how WoW was originally untill they started implementing new stuff, they didn't even have a good rep system originally, it meant nothing except getting other race mounts. He's also including an expansion to since most of the best stuff only came with the expansion or after it.

Look at how well cared for WaR is and its not even public. You can call me a fan boy if you like but i am realisticly comparing how both games were/are at this stage and to me its seems clear WaR is well ahead.


I was going to say all of this, now I don't have to.

The article is comparing WAR (a game still in closed Beta) to WoW, a finished game that has had one expansion and one up and coming and it's been out for how many years? I think War (if compared at all!) should be compared to WoW during WoW's closed Beta era. The obvious comparison is unfair and unneeded. I never read Eurogamer and if this is the kind of information I can expect from them I don't plan to.

Yes, I am a Warhammer fanboy...

[Slice]

Oh, lookie here. The same website posted an interview with Jeff H, and they, again, praise the game.

Linky. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=128855)

[Gunter]

"a more conventional and more permanent Mastery system has been added since early beta. It's identical to WOW's talent trees in almost every respect."

Or perhaps its taken from Mythic's own spec system from DAOC. I really hate previews of games that have no idea what they are talking about.
I read one review that said the good side was called "The Empire" and made up of dwarves, humans, and elves. ug.

I think thats silly also. DAoC had the same king of "Mastery" how stuff unlocks as you go up. Its not Specs as in WoW at all. The person with the review obviouslynever played anything or does nto care about any game but WoW. its obvious in how they write. One of the things people need to remember is that Warcraft is based on Warhammer. Myitic will come through ( I hope please) for us.

[Syrak]

I'll agree with the posts saying the reviewer is very bipolar. He can't seem to make his mind up about the game. However I do like that he is somewhat critical of the game. I think it partially puts some pressure on Mythic to ensure the game is that much better. Everyone could use a little bit of a wake up call now and then. Its not good to get nothing but "oh this game is so awesome" comments when there are some problems that need to be fixed.

[Kharon_Baal]

Not to be a WAR fanboi....cause I enjoyed playing wow in the beginning...but when people say "WAR took ideas for the world and such from WoW" Don't realize that Warcraft is a spin off of Warhammer, blizzard was actually pinged by GW to create a warhammer RTS but GW pulled the plug and blizzard went ahead with it anyways, with their own spin on it, then BAM! Warcraft was born....

Just saying :)

[Gunter]

Not to be a WAR fanboi....cause I enjoyed playing wow in the beginning...but when people say "WAR took ideas for the world and such from WoW" Don't realize that Warcraft is a spin off of Warhammer, blizzard was actually pinged by GW to create a warhammer RTS but GW pulled the plug and blizzard went ahead with it anyways, with their own spin on it, then BAM! Warcraft was born....

Just saying :)

A must see for all. But i think mostly here we are preaching to the choir so to speak.

[Slice]

Oh, lookie here. The same website posted an interview with Jeff H, and they, again, praise the game.

Linky. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=128855)
And here (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=128856) comes the bashing and tabloid-style twisting of words.

Good game, Eurogamer, good game..

[Arpeggi]

And here (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=128856) comes the bashing and tabloid-style twisting of words.

Good game, Eurogamer, good game..

However, Hickman said that Warhammer Online was not expected to compete closely with Blizzard's behemoth, and suggested that EA would be happy just to have a profitable MMO on the market. "We don't expect to dominate the MMO space against the biggest game out there," he said. "We have very very sound expectations for our game, I think we're going to meet those expectations, and I think EA is going to go, 'Oh my Lord, we finally have an MMO'. And they're going to be happy as hell."


Last I checked, dominating and competing were two different words with two different meanings. I think I quite hate Eurogamer. A boycott, I say!

[TheOverlord]

My first thought was, Never trust the Europeans :p

That includes the developers of WAR :p

Aaanyway, I don't mind seeing negative reviews. It gives us a fresh view on the game and brings down the hype a little so we have a clearer view of the game.

What I found to be utter rubbish is the fact that they said the artwork is both plain and lifeless.

W. T. F.

Are they blind or born with a lack of any art sense what so ever? Fine it doesn't have floating worlds on your fricking shoulders or eyes out of your axes. You know what? THATS GOOD! I don't want armor made entirely of make believeness that really ruins games for me (the floating armor stylization so many other games adopt) It irks me to see armor that simply could never really hold up in reality in any shape or form and defies any logic or physics. I don't want impossibly preposterous cities that look huge but really is about the size of a toy village. WAR's art is both impossibly good and unbelievably full of life. Just because it doesn't look like the developers ingested tons of paint and regurgitated it back into digital format doesn't mean it's lifeless.

Never trust a Euro :p

Plus I'm a Warhammer fanboi :p

[Czzarre]

Thats what I expect in beta. Its not supposed to be polished and is likely a good reason as to why they delayed release. Sounds like WAR is right on track

Torrential

[mongoose]

With the inclusion of dance it doesn't have to mean people can dance around in their underwear. In DAoC they had a simple dance but your character wore normal base clothes, not underwear. If the real problem with dancing is about underwear, I think it is silly of Mythic to exclude it. All they need is a simple dance, no way to dance in certain areas, and no text spam every time one activates dance. This way it is pretty much just like dueling in specific areas. I really don't understand why so many people have issues with a dance emote. I think it is nonsense that nobody in the Warhammer would ever dance. The dances don't have to be related to our culture, even the simple "tada" dance of DAoC is more than enough.

This is how Ive always felt. Over the devlopment cycle Ive conceeded the point of removing the actual word "dance" but still feel Mythic NEEDS to include a way for each race to celebrate in some fashion.

There are ways to include the concept of dancing in WAR while still being reverent to the setting. I just hope Mythic can see that too.


For the rest I don't entirely agree with Eurogamer, but I usually don't with their articles. The smoothness of combat is awkward because Mythic is running many tools in the background for testing purposes. And I truly disagree with the atmosphere part. The last thing I want to see are WoW's color. This game should like Warhammer, not WoW. And from footage alone you can tell there actually is liveliness in the game, just look at one of the of Altdorf videos with a cat chasing a rat, with a barrel moving because there is a rat or Skaven inside.

Skaven?! :shock:

No, no no........we.......errrm.....THEY dont exist and are best left to tales told around a tavern table. :rolleyes: :twisted:

[NoneSuch]

This is how Ive always felt. Over the devlopment cycle Ive conceeded the point of removing the actual word "dance" but still feel Mythic NEEDS to include a way for each race to celebrate in some fashion.





/Cheer>? I've never understood what was wrong with emotes like that, Dancing was never used to celebrate.. It was just.. Used all the time, for anything.

[Captbigbeard]

I got to say, I hate fanboys who turn their nose on anything that slightly bashes their game. Lack of an open mind deserves a slap!

You guys gotta accept the fact this is like every other game out there, there is a chance it fails.

Now I don't put too much wieght into anyone preview, BBUUTTT

Everything I feared from watching the videos, this preview backed up, making me kinda worried. I gotta say were WoW Lich King videos and AoC videos make me want the games even more, WAR's videos don't really fill me with awe.

One of the thing I most feared was that WAR would really lack innovation, sadly this preview claims as much :(

I'm getting more and more worried this game ain't gonna be my MMO of choice.

[Syrak]

I got to say, I hate fanboys who turn their nose on anything that slightly bashes their game. Lack of an open mind deserves a slap!

You guys gotta accept the fact this is like every other game out there, there is a chance it fails.

Now I don't put too much wieght into anyone preview, BBUUTTT

Everything I feared from watching the videos, this preview backed up, making me kinda worried. I gotta say were WoW Lich King videos and AoC videos make me want the games even more, WAR's videos don't really fill me with awe.

One of the thing I most feared was that WoW would really lack innovation, sadly this preview claims as much :(

I'm getting more and more worried this game ain't gonna be my MMO of choice.

Everyone has their opinion. For me...I have played WoW since release and quit recently. WotLK looks like more of the same old stuff and I will not be buying it. AoC looks like a twitch fest wow clone to me with a focus on PvE and gear grinding with some guild vs guild PvP thrown in at the end. I might end up trying it if my friends like it, but I'm holding out hope WAR ends up being the game it has the potential to become.

[RexT]

Ughh, you all are a bunch of silly WAR fanbois (the word sycophant also comes to mind). Get over yourselves people. WAR has flaws, people will point them out and WAR will be a better game for it. And no, the fact that a game is in Beta does not excuse it from criticism any more than a draft of a essay is immune just because "it's a draft". WAR's combat and animations have always been sketchy, people have been saying this since day one. Calling someone a "WoW fanboi" for pointing this out is the video game equivalent of calling someone unpatriotic for criticizing the President. True patriots/fans aren't just there to suckle on the teat of whoever's in charge, they are there to make the medium as good as possible.

I for one am glad that Mythic has decided to spend more time polishing the game. It's also not a bad thing that they are trying to edge their way out of the corner that they painted themselves into with all that brash fan boi-appeasing talk that dominated the early WAR development cycle.

"Ahmagad, their experimenting with stealth in Beta!! Alert the presses!!":roll:

[Gorthor]

I was going to say all of this, now I don't have to.

The article is comparing WAR (a game still in closed Beta) to WoW, a finished game that has had one expansion and one up and coming and it's been out for how many years? I think War (if compared at all!) should be compared to WoW during WoW's closed Beta era.Eh...why? WAR should be compared to the competition that's out there now: it needs to be better than WoW is now, not than WoW was 3-4 years ago. They've given themselves time to make it better but it's pointless to say "well at launch WoW had no BGs and only MC for raiding so..."

Don't get me wrong, I think they will make the necessary improvements, but it's important to recognise that those improvements do need to be made.

[Arpeggi]

And no, the fact that a game is in Beta does not excuse it from criticism

Um, yes it does? It's an unfinished product. The videogame industry uses BETA as a QA service, not to be criticized for its content (which is both witheld and unfinished). That would be like me building half of a birdhouse with a lot of the main features and polish missing, and someone walk up to me and say, "House is rubbish, mate. Look at Blizzard's birdhouse." and pointing to a finished birdhouse with lots of bird traffic.

[Saracen]

This is what polishing is supposed to take care of.

[Gunter]

I for one like that the combat seems a bit slower. Now smooth animations are a must also. I hope they get them there. And some of the mroe recent videos are closer.

There needs to be some slowness to bring out the strategy of positionals and reactive attacks. Just my 2c

[Arpeggi]

Eh...why? WAR should be compared to the competition that's out there now: it needs to be better than WoW is now, not than WoW was 3-4 years ago.

So the closed BETA needs to be better than WoW now?

Quite the expectation.

[Rhianni]

One of the thing I most feared was that WoW would really lack innovation, sadly this preview claims as much :(

I'm getting more and more worried this game ain't gonna be my MMO of choice.

You are thinking that WAR is not innovative? (I'm assuming the WOW was as typo). Are you following the same game I am? ToK, PQs, loot distribution, city sieges, crafting. They are going against a lot of standards.

[Saracen]

Eh...why? WAR should be compared to the competition that's out there now: it needs to be better than WoW is now, not than WoW was 3-4 years ago. They've given themselves time to make it better but it's pointless to say "well at launch WoW had no BGs and only MC for raiding so..."

Don't get me wrong, I think they will make the necessary improvements, but it's important to recognise that those improvements do need to be made.

So what you're saying is that every game should come out looking like the previous trend game did years after it released? That's totally unrealistic (and something else, but I don't want to be rude). Games have to have the bugs worked out of them somehow, and betas are the way to do it. If a Beta was perfect, then there wouldn't any reason to have one.

WoW started development in 2001. WAR started development in 2005. Do the math, Blizzard has had far longer to polish their game and make it as perfect as their basic engine allows.

[Browncoat-WHA]

Ughh, you all are a bunch of silly WAR fanbois (the word sycophant also comes to mind). Get over yourselves people. Accusing someone of fanboyism is just as cliche and just as ridiculous as people who really are fanbois. You need to "get over yourselves", too.

Seriously, folks - feel free to offer a negative opinion, feel free to disagree with people, but please - do so constructively and respectfully even if they don't deserve it. Stay away from inflammatory sweeping statements and borderline insults no matter what opinion you have. Comments like the above really bring down the community.

This thread is really going on a downward spiral. Please get it back on the right track, or it'll just be closed.

[spirit]

See, what was funny was I read this entire thread BEFORE reading the article, and was expecting to read some kind of ultra-biased, WoW-loving piece of trash. Then I actually read it, and just thought "wow, those people on the forums really ARE fanboys"

The article contains no more and no less criticism than there is of most games out there. Read any well-written review, and no matter how good the game is they will pick out the flaws and talk about them. Heck, I fully expect WAR to have flaws. A game this big is bound to have them.

I mean sure the guy gets a few details a bit wrong, he's a reviewer, I'm sure he doesn't have the time to follow every game as closely as we do. Other than saying the mastery system is practically WoW's talent tree system (which, to the outside eye, it is) and a couple things I disagree with, he isn't massively biased against the game in any way, and certainly doesn't appear to be any form of "WoW fanboy". While on forums comparing everything to WoW is a bad idea, in terms of reviewers, comparing the two games is sure as hell gonna happen, because WoW is the only MMO which even people who don't play it have really heard of and know stuff about.

[Captbigbeard]

So the closed BETA needs to be better than WoW now?

Quite the expectation.

I played WoW beta, closed, and it looked better then WAR's beta does now. Nor did it have these problems.

So Yes, a game that came out three years after WoW (Just guessed that one), should look better then WoW this far ahead in beta. No it is not a high expectation at all. Have you ever played a beta???

You are thinking that WAR is not innovative? (I'm assuming the WOW was as typo). Are you following the same game I am? ToK, PQs, loot distribution, city sieges, crafting. They are going against a lot of standards.
Thanks for catching my typo, I went back and fixed it... not like it matters cause soon it will be buried :(

No I don't think WAR is innovative. I think the way it handles city sieges and the whole PvP aspect is unique, but there are MMOs out there that let the players build their own sieges.

AoC's PvP now THATS innovative (if done right!) Mammoths knocking down city walls siege engines at the ready, NPC armies (although not sure if they got rid of that), a mecernary system.

[Saracen]

I played WoW beta, closed, and it looked better then WAR's beta does now. Nor did it have these problems.

So Yes, a game that came out three years after WoW (Just guessed that one), should look better then WoW this far ahead in beta. No it is not a high expectation at all. Have you ever played a beta???


I disagree. WoW looked just as bad, which was why they had a beta.

[NoneSuch]

I played WoW beta, closed, and it looked better then WAR's beta does now. Nor did it have these problems.

So Yes, a game that came out three years after WoW (Just guessed that one), should look better then WoW this far ahead in beta. No it is not a high expectation at all. Have you ever played a beta???

Wow as a Released product does not look better than WAR right now, And I believe it's been said currently they've not put High-res Textures ingame, or completed the lighting.

The combat problems, I'll hold my judgment on untill I've played the actual game myself.

[Arpeggi]

I played WoW beta, closed, and it looked better then WAR's beta does now. Nor did it have these problems.

Which problems?

So Yes, a game that came out three years after WoW (Just guessed that one), should look better then WoW this far ahead in beta. No it is not a high expectation at all. Have you ever played a beta???

You talk like WoW released their products years ago and left it alone. As if there hasn't been patches, bug fixes, expansions, etc...

And it IS a high expectation to say that a game 6 months from being finished should look and play better than the MMO tyrant that is WoW currently, I don't care what train of reasoning you follow.

[Tlear]

RvR is re-branding of PvP /boggle this "special" kid should not be writing reviews

[tharsos]

WAR has better graphics IMO (less childlish).
WAR has a reason and objectives behind RvR.
WAR has slower paced combat which is a good thing IMO as it adds more strategy and performance depends less on fast reflexes.

[RexT]

Um, yes it does? It's an unfinished product. The videogame industry uses BETA as a QA service, not to be criticized for its content (which is both witheld and unfinished). That would be like me building half of a birdhouse with a lot of the main features and polish missing, and someone walk up to me and say, "House is rubbish, mate. Look at Blizzard's birdhouse." and pointing to a finished birdhouse with lots of bird traffic.

Beta as a Q and A service? You can't be serious... Every media imaginable (video games, movies, tv shows, books, etc.) preview their products to critics and/or the public so that they can be critiqued and the developers have time to take into consideration the kind of insight that only a third party can offer. If Mythic didn't want any outside opinions then they wouldn't bother showing WAR off until it was completely finished.

Your analogy isn't accurate anyway; you wouldn't show off half a bird house, you would show off a whole birdhouse that doesn't have the paint and finish on it. Then, critics can come over and offer you constructive criticism based on industry standards (that includes comparing it to the best in the market) so that you can take what is good about the competition and incorporate it into your own product as you see fit. That also includes pointing basic flaws in your work (weak wood, poor construction, bad design, etc.)

[Vadimer]

IF ONE is tobash WoW it would be me lol everyone that is new to the mmo world always refers WoW to everything since it is the first game they played bo biggie on that one but on the other hand WoW is like every mmo todate starting with EQ and EQ is comparable to UO but UO wqas 2d at first another no biggie

but when they are like WoW clone this and that it is nuts.
where do i come up with it? i come up with it from playing them all

WoW did not have the first combat system ever
WoW did not have the first system for looting
WoW did not have the firs raiding or PVE content ever
They are not the first to have PVP in the game
the list goes on and on and everyone will still say this game is a wow clone untill the next big mmo comes alive


fyi before WoW everything was a EQ clone lol

[Captbigbeard]

I disagree. WoW looked just as bad, which was why they had a beta.

Errr, what??? I wasn't talking about WoW before beta, and why wouldn't it have beta EVERY game has a beta. Of course they had a beta, and I was in the beta, almost from the start. I think that looked better then the videos of WAR I'm seeing.

Of course gameplay wise I wouldn't know... but you can get somewhat of a feeling through video.

Which problems?



.

The visual ones, people are telling me not to judge cause it's in beta.

Wow as a Released product does not look better than WAR right now, And I believe it's been said currently they've not put High-res Textures ingame, or completed the lighting.

The combat problems, I'll hold my judgment on untill I've played the actual game myself.

High-res textures does not mean awesome graphics. Theres much more too it, level design and animation being two that come to mind. Both of which WAR seems to be lacking.

I said it before, what gets me is the fact that videos of WAR, just don't make me want the game, infact they worry me. As opposed to AoC, EQ2, WoW, and other such MMo's past and present whose videos got me jumping out of my shoes.

[Saracen]

RvR is re-branding of PvP /boggle this "special" kid should not be writing reviews

It gets better:

The almost complete absence of a death penalty is refreshing, though.

Great, we have PvE'er writing reviews for a game centered on PvP.

[Maloka]

Not a horrible review, even with all WoW's comparissions and lack of research (PvP and RvR are not the same; The game is in beta, the graphics isn't finished) but we got to admit he made some good points.

[Arpeggi]

Beta as a Q and A service? You can't be serious... Every media imaginable (video games, movies, tv shows, books, etc.) preview their products to critics and/or the public so that they can be critiqued and the developers have time to take into consideration the kind of insight that only a third party can offer. If Mythic didn't want any outside opinions then they wouldn't bother showing WAR off until it was completely finished.

Your analogy isn't accurate anyway; you wouldn't show off half a bird house, you would show off a whole birdhouse that doesn't have the paint and finish on it. Then, critics can come over and offer you constructive criticism based on industry standards (that includes comparing it to the best in the market) so that you can take what is good about the competition and incorporate it into your own product as you see fit. That also includes pointing basic flaws in your work (weak wood, poor construction, bad design, etc.)

Not Q&A -- QA (Quality Assurance)

And the BETA is there for constructive criticism from the BETA participants. But perhaps you're right about Mythic showing off particular parts to the media. But I do not think it is for 3rd party criticism, as I'm sure everything the reviewer said has been said by the BETA participants themselves.

[Kimmurial]

Yay, that writter has really no idea what hes talking about...

[Vlasity]

Its so WoW fanboish i wouldn't worry about it, they bring wow up at every chance.

" It's as if someone has taken WOW's world and drained half the colour, atmosphere and liveliness from it"

><

WoW has atmosphere and liveliness?!?!? noone told me this!!! :confused:

[Fluks]

Yay, WoW fanboy alert !!!
Yay, WAR fanboy alert !!!

c what i did there?

[NoneSuch]

It gets better:



Great, we have PvE'er writing reviews for a game centered on PvP.

Not to Argue but I can only think a PVEr would want a harsher death penatlys so PVE encounters are more challenging. I'd think anyone who was into PVP would understand that Dieing, is enough loss as it is. You let your team down, you'll probably be the reason your faction lost an objective/keep.

I myself would hate a harsh death penalty ingame, Why would I want to be punished for playing PVP? Unlike PVE in PVP someone always dies, and you'll be doing it continously.

I said it before, what gets me is the fact that videos of WAR, just don't make me want the game, infact they worry me. As opposed to AoC, EQ2, WoW, and other such MMo's past and present whose videos got me jumping out of my shoes

Well AoC videos show us practically nothing, majority of them are short clips of people hacking away at mobs. We've not seen more than 2 or so people on screen at once. The only thing which excites me about AoC is the graphics, They've nerfed the combat system enough from their original desgin I don't have any hopes for it.

I never got excited over Wow's ... Graphics, Or videos. And EQ2 Well.. That was boring and plastic. I much Prefer WAR's visual style over both of those games, with the exception to AoC.

[Saracen]

Not Q&A -- QA (Quality Assurance)

And the BETA is there for constructive criticism from the BETA participants. But perhaps you're right about Mythic showing off particular parts to the media. But I do not think it is for 3rd party criticism, as I'm sure everything the reviewer said has been said by the BETA participants themselves.


Owned. And there's a reason why there's an NDA up. Closed Betas aren't about showcasing their product to the world.

[RexT]

1. Forget what WoW looked like in Beta. WoW Beta is not what WAR is going to be competing with this fall.
2. RvR is a specific form of the general concept of PvP. I'd like to add a derogatory comment here about people who argue over insignificant things like this, but I'll only say that I agree with the article writer. There really isn't a need to re-brand (and squabble about) the same general concepts every time a new game comes around.

[Saracen]

Not to Argue but I can only think a PVEr would want a harsher death penatlys so PVE encounters are more challenging. I'd think anyone who was into PVP would understand that Dieing, is enough loss as it is. You let your team down, you'll probably be the reason your faction lost an objective/keep.

I myself would hate a harsh death penalty ingame, Why would I want to be punished for playing PVP? Unlike PVE in PVP someone always dies, and you'll be doing it continously.


I'm one of those "You should be able to loot your enemy's corpse" people. I'm not talking about durability loss.

(EVE online, lol)

[Saracen]

1. Forget what WoW looked like in Beta. WoW Beta is not what WAR is going to be competing with this fall.
2. RvR is a specific form of the general concept of PvP. I'd like to add a derogatory comment here about people who argue over insignificant things like this, but I'll only say that I agree with the article writer. There really isn't a need to re-brand (and squabble about) the same general concepts every time a new game comes around.


It's about making it the names for different things fit with the world, and RvR and PvP are actually different things. RvR includes realm-supported PvE, so calling it PvP would definitely be a misnomer.

And if we're talking about Betas, then that's what we should compare. WAR has had barely three years of development, WoW has been being developed, polished, and patched for seven years. Or do you not remember the massive imbalances and flat out retarded abilities that some classes in WoW had at launch? I played a shaman, grounding totem at launch didn't die unless hit (or after 30 seconds), and it absorbed every ability that wasn't a white damage attack. Perfectly reasonable though, right? Sounds like something that should be in a finished product.

[NoneSuch]

I'm one of those "You should be able to loot your enemy's corpse" people. I'm not talking about durability loss.

(EVE online, lol)

Eve was designed from the ground up with such a system, It wouldn't really fit into a mainstream MMO. I would certainly never feel like having to continously redo capitol city raids to get the same piece of equipment, then 5 seconds later get ganked by a group of 20 and lose that gear.

Equipment losses only work when equipment takes a few minutes to get.

[Saracen]

Eve was designed from the ground up with such a system, It wouldn't really fit into a mainstream MMO. I would certainly never feel like having to continously redo capitol city raids to get the same piece of equipment, then 5 seconds later get ganked by a group of 20 and lose that gear.

Equipment losses only work when equipment takes a few minutes to get.


Right, because it only takes a few minutes to mine the materials needed for a capital ship in EVE.

Also--I'm not really thinking equipped gear so much as money/mats being carried in bags...maybe even quest items. That would be fantastic.

This is moronic, hardly anyone in this thread is actually in Beta and so our opinions are all ignorant ones so I'm washing my hands of it.

[NoneSuch]

No one would be silly enough in Eve to fly about in a capitol ship without any protection or in a PVP Zone, People always PVP in immensly cheap ships unless they're in huge guild groups. To be perfectly honest, I dislike Eve for a good number of reasons and it has nothing to do with the death penalty.

Losing quest items would be an utter joke, It just require you to redo more boring-arse PVE to get them back again. That would simply discourage PVP.

[Grondoth]

Bail out! It's goin' down!

[RexT]

Not Q&A -- QA (Quality Assurance)

And the BETA is there for constructive criticism from the BETA participants. But perhaps you're right about Mythic showing off particular parts to the media. But I do not think it is for 3rd party criticism, as I'm sure everything the reviewer said has been said by the BETA participants themselves.

Either way, my point still stands. Yes the Beta is there for constructive criticism from the Beta participants the same way that demos given to reviewers are there for constructive criticism from the reviewers and the same way that demos shown at game conventions are there to get constructive criticism from the people that play it ( QA is also a big part of this of course).

Anyway, the point is that a product in development is just as subject to criticism as a finished game. And you could really make an argument that it deserves more criticism since it is expected to not only match the competition but also beat them as well.

Oh and Saracen, again what purpose does it do to compare Betas? What practical import is there to that at all? WAR will be competing with a game that is full stride and has been the most successful MMO in history. When WAR ships it needs to be just as good if not better than WoW currently is. It's not going to get there if the devs only try to outperform what WoW looked like 3 years ago. So again, WAR needs and deserves every bit of constructive criticism it gets between now and its release.

[Arpeggi]

Man, I like chicken. Let's talk about chicken.

[Shuak]

Everytime someone uses the word "fanboy" in any situation god punches a baby.

Caution

[Arpeggi]

And you could really make an argument that it deserves more criticism since it is expected to not only match the competition but also beat them as well.


Typically (and hopefully), but in this case the competition is a gaming GOD. It's just not the same.

[RexT]

Typically (and hopefully), but in this case the competition is a gaming GOD. It's just not the same.

Wait, you are going to have to explain this. Because the competition is too high they should just blindly go forth with their own vision and ignore what made the game "God-like" in the first place? That's just plain silly.

[Arpeggi]

Wait, you are going to have to explain this. Because the competition is too high they should just blindly go forth with their own vision and ignore what made the game "God-like" in the first place? That's just plain silly.

Or genius!

But seriously, who said they're blindly going forth with anything? I think Mythic has proven they are listening to their BETA testers. They are changing their game because of feedback. I guess only time will tell how it will all turn out.

I gotta get back to work, however, mayhap I can squeeze back in later. =/

[Njor]

"or "careers" - WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on"
"It's as if someone has taken WOW's world and drained half the colour, atmosphere and liveliness from it."
Even if the news is slightly disturbing I couldn't disagree more with the writer on the points which I actually got some knowledge about.
RvR isn't just another name for PvP. It has been described to be something completely else a billion times.
Furthermore wow doesn't got atmosphere. It has humor, sure. It has colour, yep. But atmosphere, no way, I am not even sure that removing the gnomes and the pink tabards could give wow an atmosphere (this is just a personal opinion ofc, and all this being said I played wow for quite a while and I think it's a great game in many ways).
Oh and I know someone else allready stated this, I just had to get it out ;)
Besides I feel that this is very defining for the credibility of the preview.

[Haager]

I thought the article was fairly decent. The author mention concerns that they felt with the game. Its not like he crucified WAR he just mentioned concerns.

I don't get what the fuss is when ever someone says they aren't into, or are not getting a great feeling about one aspect of the game. I can make points of every game that I played personally, and did not like, that does not mean that the game was a insta-failure. Its just that I didn't like that little portion of the game.

For everyone that has not noticed yet this game and every other mmo that comes out in the next few years is going to be compared to WOW. WOW is the breaking block of the industry for now, like it or not.

/boggle

[danteire]

Well it was refreshing to hear some negative comments in a review, hopefully Mythic take it on board for the polishing.

As for the "no dancing = fail" comment, I don't see the problem. Now, if there was no emotes at all WAR has a problem.

The renaming of MMO contents, who cares, if it was all gonna be the same just name it Warcraft Online and have all the careers as permutations of WoW's classes.

First the game world is too dull and not "Warcrafty enough" and then its too bland and not Warhammery enough. WAR =/= dull, drab WoW...WoW = LSD, cutesy viewed Warhammer world.



And as for the "this forums just full of WAR fanbois"....*looks around* erm guys, this site aint called Warcraft Alliance (at least not yet if April 1st taught us anything ;) ) or General MMO Alliance or Unbiased Opinion Alliance, its Warhammer Aliliance.

[leshtricity]

Well...

Of course if you post any type of 'negative' preview of a game on a website dedicated TO said game- people are going to dismiss it as 'fanboyism'.

I'm just glad I didn't get suckered into pre-ordering.

[LuBear]

I for one am really happy for the delay for one simple reason. WoW Lich King is going to come out and that will be great for us WAR fans.
Its simple do we really want so much of WoW immature community in WAR? If Lich King comes out then WoW can keep majority of their immature play base so that they don't have to come to WAR and start comparing everything to WoW. Will it hurt the sales for Mythic, maybe but WAR will have a very solid base of player and if it becomes more successfully it will gain player base overtime. (WoW did not get 6+million people the first year it came out)
If its a good game people will play it, word of mouth will spread. I can see WoW expansion being a positive thing for WAR as then we will get the time to build a very solid player base and then when people are sick with Lich King they can come try WAR.

[Kimmurial]

Yay, WAR fanboy alert !!!

c what i did there?

... ok

If i blame someone as a murderer, that means i am also ?

[Rasek]

I dont know why are you people so agressive to that preview. WAR really needs that polish, WAR is slugish atm.

Im looking foward to play warhammer, i preordered my CE, but lets get serious here, most of things they said there are true, and i hope mythic realizes it and work to make it better instead of criticising a critic.

The war i played in a convention was nearly that, sounds that dont match, when you hit an enemy was like hitting air, and so on. But i was like "the game still has 9 months to go, this is just fine for this stage, woot". Then some of you come here and "the game is lewt, this critic sux" ..... oh well.

[Roargh Growler]

I also have to hook in on the RvR comment.
RvR is not PvP, RvR has PvP.
That is a whole different thing.

That comment made me realise this person is not an objective writer.
He failed.

Does WAR has some problems, probably yes.
They are delaying it because those small problems most likely.
They realise that since WoW is on the MMO market, they have to release a smooth game, or not release at all.

By the way, the pre-order chart does not lie,it is an amazing number, wich is a big feather up in the tushy of the devs.

[Kimmurial]

I dont know why are you people so agressive to that preview. WAR really needs that polish, WAR is slugish atm.

Im looking foward to play warhammer, i preordered my CE, but lets get serious here, most of things they said there are true, and i hope mythic realizes it and work to make it better instead of criticising a critic.

The war i played in a convention was nearly that, sounds that dont match, when you hit an enemy was like hitting air, and so on. But i was like "the game still has 9 months to go, this is just fine for this stage, woot". Then some of you come here and "the game is lewt, this critic sux" ..... oh well.

Its not the fact that the game needs polishing, but the fact that the reviewer keeps saying WAR is a WoW copy but with different terms and clearely has no idea what hes talking about (the RvR=PvP comment for example)...

[Ruinx]

almost sounds wow fanboyish but slap my wrists if i am out of line here.

You are out of line.

If the game doesn't have "tactile reward", IT WILL BE A HORRIBLE FAILURE. That's really the end of the story.

WoW is a success because it is fun to play on a basic, tactile level. The sounds/controls/animations FEEL right. Unless WAR can match that, it is destined to have laze in sub-200k population obscurity, and to have been a giant waste of Mythic and EA's money.

Lack of tactile reward is not a small problem.

[Kazok]

Nice well balanced preview, I want to hear people's opinions on the game, be they good or bad. Nothing worse than sycophantic reviews and previews that exist only to please a site's advertisers. People need to learn to live with negative as well as positive opinions without dismissing them as the works of fanboys.

I'm sure the issues that are mentioned in the article are things that the beta folks will have already mentioned in their feedback if they are a problem and that Mythic will spend the next few months polishing these things until they feel great.

[Spikey]

"The character classes (or "careers" - WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on) are a strange mix of diversity and restriction. Since each race has a unique selection of four careers, there are a huge number to choose from: but they all slot neatly into the archetypes of healer, tank (damage-soaking warrior), ranged damage and melee damage."

The reviewer seems to completely disregard the fact the ENTIRE game is based around a WAR.

Careers = The people's jobs in the war. Class wouldn't make sense.
Ranks = Their rank in the war effort. Level wouldnt make sense.
Scenario = ... Well I guess that doesn't matter, but who the hell said WoW's term is the right term.
RvR = Realm Vs Realm, beause it's not -just- one player vs one player.

The guy is a douche.

[alConn]

It's a negative preview...uhmm, so? He's entitled to his opinion. And people were wondering why they delayed the game, there were reasons. The sound will improve because much of the sound was just templates and place keepers until they could record professional voice actors and add better effects. They continue to work on player motions, and have improved these significantly since early beta stages. The pace of the combat I am sure is still being tinkered with in terms of how long it takes to down a mob, swing a weapon, cast a spell and so forth. If we don't have people bashing the game (constructive criticism), than nothing will get changed or improved, that is why it's in beta!

Granted, considering that the amount of positive previews outweighs the negatives during the beta process, I wouldn't become too discouraged at this point.

Although the constant WoW comparisons is kinda lame...he basically said WoW did everything right and if you change anything, even names, it is an issue. WoW seems to be his favorite MMO, and comparing aspects is perfectly fair, but being picky about the names of things is a little much. And some of the things he says are simply incorrect (Career Masteries are similar to WoW, but to say almost identical is a HUGE leap).

One last thing that made me chuckle a little: "and Mythic will end up ruing the day it decided to exclude dancing from the range of emotes. It's as if someone has taken WOW's world and drained half the colour, atmosphere and liveliness from it."

That's right folks, DANCING is the breaking point. Little bit extreme there wouldn't you say? Other than a few minor, uhmm, inconsistencies, it is a decent read from a different perspective.

[xVlademir]

It's BETA!

[Rhianni]

The funny thing is that if a poster came on this board and makes WAR and WoW comparisons and stated that WAR it taking ideas from WoW he would have been ran off the boards instead of defended for giving his opinion.

[NoneSuch]

The funny thing is that if a poster came on this board and makes WAR and WoW comparisons and stated that WAR it taking ideas from WoW he would have been ran off the boards instead of defended for giving his opinion.

Well yea, I guess that's similiar to going onto a Dawn of War 2 forum and saying it's ripping off Starcraft or something. People tend to take offense when you say their favourite game/hobby is taking idea's from other things.

Not that there's anything wrong with borrowing ideas.

[Arpeggi]

Well "borrowing" implies you intend to give it back. =/

[Llamazerker]

Probably not as bad as you think. It seems to only occur when someone's casting something, they kinda turn to follow the target a bit.

mind flay for shadow preists had auto face. it only existed while the spell was being cast. this is more or less how it works in war to my knowledge. hardly seems like a big issue

[NoneSuch]

Well "borrowing" implies you intend to give it back. =/

You are "Giving" in a way, you're putting a quality product out to the community. :p

[Jalex]

“It's identical to WOW's talent trees in almost every respect.” (masteries)

“WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on”

“Mythic will end up ruing the day it decided to exclude dancing from the range of emotes.”

These particular comments, in my opinion, don't really do all that much to add to the credibility of the author.

However, they don’t necessarily mean that his comments about the “feel” of the game or “tactile reward” are unfounded or unfair. Indeed, it should be taken as constructive criticism, and hopefully these are areas in which Mythic will put a lot of effort in improving.

So overall, despite a few questionable statements, the review comes across as being reasonably honest and balanced. From my personal point of view, the piece has given me a few things to think about but not, for now at any rate, to be too worried about.

[Oak]

*EDITED for content*

[Llamazerker]

Eh...why? WAR should be compared to the competition that's out there now: it needs to be better than WoW is now, not than WoW was 3-4 years ago. They've given themselves time to make it better but it's pointless to say "well at launch WoW had no BGs and only MC for raiding so..."

Don't get me wrong, I think they will make the necessary improvements, but it's important to recognise that those improvements do need to be made.

that is mythics goal to compete on the level you stated. does it have too? i don't think so, is it better too? it can only be better. theres an awefull lot of money in the mmo market right now, and blizzards wow has been king of the lions portion of that money for a long time. it would be short sighted to see how much money is in the market, and not say it is worth a much larger investment to produce then it was before wows release.

wars strong suit is that it is built to be a wow killer. mythic may deny it, but this game is designed to correct everything wow did wrong from healbots, grindfests, loot drops, hardcore raids and everything else under the sun, and its doing it from a game world that is familier to wow. wows players are extremely fickle. they dont want to play another mmo, they only want to play the mmo. if this game looks like wow, fixes everything it did wrong, and hypes itself as the future heavyweight wows players will flock to it in mass numbers.

[Grondoth]

*EDITED for content*

[NoneSuch]

Wow that article you linked Oak contains so much Nerd rage it's hilarious.

[Oak]

Wow that article you linked Oak contains so much Nerd rage it's hilarious.

I know, I had many lulz whilst reading it.

[Captbigbeard]

Well everything the videos made me worry about we're adressed in this preview, so I can't help but think this preview may be spot on.

Seriously the WAR videos are very, well, unthrilling.

[Kzull]

Well, this preview was dismissed by some as WOW fanboi propaganda and that sounds nice but....I read the Age of Conan preview from the same site and they actually like it quite a bit...so it isnt just WOW fanboi-ism...I havent read the previous AOC previews on that site though but I got the feeling that they werent too impressed with the early AOC versions either.

[NoneSuch]

Once again, What do you expect? Has watching MMO's Ever been Thrilling?

Never, have I ever been "thrilled" by a video of a MMO. I actually don't think I've ever been thrilled over any gaming video, Because games simply are boring to watch. Who the heck wants to watch someone farming Boars on Wow? .. Then again that's not even fun to play.

All I'm saying is, Just because it's not got "flashy" graphics like AoC, Which I mind you we've hardly seen any "real" gameplay videos of, only very short clips of one or two people running about - I'm not even sure if the server supports more than 5 people, considering I've never seen a AoC video with more than 5 in.

But as you can see, That's a ludricious assumption to make about AoC. Just like claiming WAR is boring from watching a few rubbishy clips of it. MMO's are always Snoozefests to watch.

[Ruinx]

Seriously the WAR videos are very, well, unthrilling.

So were WoW's, though. I watched several pre-release. Until I played the game, I thought it was utter bloody tripe, looking both boring and stupid. Even videos of WoW PvP now still look kind of retardomatic, no matter how fun the game is. I don't think anyone sees WoW's PvP and goes "MAN THAT LOOKS FUN!". AoC's videos are the very epitome of unthrilling, too, which I guess doesn't tell us much for similar reasons.

The "review" of the early beta is probably spot-on, even if filled with crazy nerd rage and unaddressable specifics (I think it's kind of cowardly too, though, because he/she knows that anyone who wants to specifically dispute what he/she's saying - they're going to get banned from the beta, and they don't give their exact play dates or the like). However, what they point out as problems are what I long suspected were WAR's problems, because they're the major problems with every MMORPG that isn't WoW (including LotRO).

I'm pretty sure from the sound of things that they played a Dwarven Hammerer. But I can say that because I have nothing to get banned from (QQ).

[alConn]

However, they don’t necessarily mean that his comments about the “feel” of the game or “tactile reward” are unfounded or unfair. Indeed, it should be taken as constructive criticism, and hopefully these are areas in which Mythic will put a lot of effort in improving.

So overall, despite a few questionable statements, the review comes across as being reasonably honest and balanced. From my personal point of view, the piece has given me a few things to think about but not, for now at any rate, to be too worried about.

I'm also from the perspective where constructive criticism is needed and overall this preview is good with only a few questionable/misinformed remarks. However, I wish he would have been a little more specific on WHY he thinks there is a lack of "tactile reward", which I interpret as a meaningful or worthwhile reward, another reward beyond the XP gain. I mean, do the quest rewards suck with useless items, not alot of cash or no real reward at all, or are the RvR rewards not worth the time and/or effort? It is a little vague, and MMOs lacking tactile rewards is a huge problem, and I think more specifics would have been very useful. Based on how much Mythic is committed to making the game fun and not a second job, I think they will listen to beta testers when it comes to rewards in-game.

"Feel" is a little more ambiguous, although I would relate this to polish such as animations and combat pacing, which the devs have stated they are currently working on. Along with the Dwarf mount! It's in the Q&A :).

[Captbigbeard]

Once again, What do you expect? Has watching MMO's Ever been Thrilling?

Never, have I ever been "thrilled" by a video of a MMO. I actually don't think I've ever been thrilled over any gaming video, Because games simply are boring to watch. Who the heck wants to watch someone farming Boars on Wow? .. Then again that's not even fun to play.

All I'm saying is, Just because it's not got "flashy" graphics like AoC, Which I mind you we've hardly seen any "real" gameplay videos of, only very short clips of one or two people running about - I'm not even sure if the server supports more than 5 people, considering I've never seen a AoC video with more than 5 in.

But as you can see, That's a ludricious assumption to make about AoC. Just like claiming WAR is boring from watching a few rubbishy clips of it. MMO's are always Snoozefests to watch.

Yes WoW videos, EQ2 videos, and AoC videos all got me pumped (No not the CGI vidoes). Heck EQ expansion videos were cool back in the day.

WAR videos actually make me NOT want to play the game. Of course there just videos... but this preview confirmed what I saw and worried about in the videos. Hence my concern.

So were WoW's, though. I watched several pre-release. Until I played the game, I thought it was utter bloody tripe, looking both boring and stupid. Even videos of WoW PvP now still look kind of retardomatic, no matter how fun the game is. I don't think anyone sees WoW's PvP and goes "MAN THAT LOOKS FUN!". AoC's videos are the very epitome of unthrilling, too, which I guess doesn't tell us much for similar reasons.


The parts of WoW's videos that actually got me exited was the crazy armors, insane enemies, vastly diffrent graphics, and awesome zone design, as opposed to the combat.

Once agian, WAR impresses me in none of these fields.

Of course that game is quite a few years old, so considering that, WAR should look better not worse. Seriously the zones look rather flat and boreing. Did you see the siege video??? Man that was lame.

[Ruinx]

Well, this preview was dismissed by some as WOW fanboi propaganda and that sounds nice but....I read the Age of Conan preview from the same site and they actually like it quite a bit...so it isnt just WOW fanboi-ism...I havent read the previous AOC previews on that site though but I got the feeling that they werent too impressed with the early AOC versions either.

Could you link to that? I can't seem to find it with their search.

PS - Some fishy stuff on that site - the front page has a link to a Somethingawful.com "Interview with a WoW GM", which happened something like two years ago posted as if it was recent (I mean the dude is talking about 40-man content and similar retro ). Indeed they say "recently" in describing it, which just ain't right (unless Somethingawful.com has had another interview with a WoW GM, which seems unlikely).

[Berecynthia]

Many people are bashing that editor, but I think he has a point judging from the latest videos. The combat did indeed seem "sluggish" and thats a VERY serious problem, it's discouraging to see it in every example of PvP.

Being "lively", or having a good style, matters as well. I know exactly what they are talking about, although I think the problem lay more with the P.Cs than the environment.

[Kaiser_Johan]

Well, yes, maybe its not all 100% correct -- but then again, its down to personal taste.

But seriously though, just because Mythic says this and that dosn't mean it's going to be what we see in the final release. It's called PR. Anyone remembered Fable 1? I think people put WAY too much blind trust in Mythic, but let's hope they are right, because I would love to see them succeed, I just cannot put my 100% support behind a game I have never played, and hardly ever seen REAL VIDEOS, not some podcast or shakycam.

[Vaylor]

This review was pretty bad. Regardless if he made any good points or not, he tainted anything he said by showing a clear bias in the review.

That beta review someone wrote was also pretty bad. They played back in last August. Thats over a year prior to the games eventual release. They also seemed to only play a little bit in the very low levels. They talked about their experiences as a level 3... as if that is what the game is all about.

The video's in war haven't been all that awe inspiring to me either. But they're all basically crappy video's too. Mostly just camcorder videos of a monitor at a convention or something. People don't know how to play the class, or the characters are low level and thus have very few skills. Also, while watching it, I don't know how to play the class. Game video's are typically much better if you know whats going on. If you don't, they're just flashy lights.

[NoneSuch]

The parts of WoW's videos that actually got me exited was the crazy armors, insane enemies, vastly diffrent graphics, and awesome zone design, as opposed to the combat.

Once agian, WAR impresses me in none of these fields.

Of course that game is quite a few years old, so considering that, WAR should look better not worse. Seriously the zones look rather flat and boreing. Did you see the siege video??? Man that was lame.

Once again, Are you utterly sure you don't just have some type of bias against the game? You might just not like it. But stating "It looks worst than wow" as fact is utterly wrong, It can be your opinion I give you that but you're acting as if it's the utter truth.

In my eyes the Armour is fantastic, Haven't you seen the Black Orc stuff? It's just so much better than what we've seen from other MMO's in my opinion.

All I'm saying is, You go on about how it looks just like Wow, Then say how better wow looked? /=

[RexT]

All of the posts made by RexT, thus far, have almost taken the words straight out of my mouth. I applaud him for being so stalwart in the face of a Warhammer Forum.


Hey thanks alot :)

I wish he would have been a little more specific on WHY he thinks there is a lack of "tactile reward"

alConn I think what he means when he says "tactile" is a sense of weight behind attacks, a bit of "oomph" if you will. Imagine watching a fight scene in a movie with the volume down, the punches and kicks won't seem as "weighty" or "intense" if there aren't any sound effects to augment the visual aspect of the attack. Also, many games incorporate little visual flair into attacks when they connect with enemies. Oftentimes its nothing more than a slight hesitation in the arc of a swing when a weapon hits the target.

Take this vid for example, watch the move he does at 30 and 35 seconds in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMjVxDblFEc

Note the way the sound and visual effects work together to portray the weight behind the attacks. Obviously there won't be anything this dramatic in WAR but I think you get the gist.

[Llamazerker]

Errr, what??? I wasn't talking about WoW before beta, and why wouldn't it have beta EVERY game has a beta. Of course they had a beta, and I was in the beta, almost from the start. I think that looked better then the videos of WAR I'm seeing.

Of course gameplay wise I wouldn't know... but you can get somewhat of a feeling through video.



The visual ones, people are telling me not to judge cause it's in beta.



High-res textures does not mean awesome graphics. Theres much more too it, level design and animation being two that come to mind. Both of which WAR seems to be lacking.

I said it before, what gets me is the fact that videos of WAR, just don't make me want the game, infact they worry me. As opposed to AoC, EQ2, WoW, and other such MMo's past and present whose videos got me jumping out of my shoes.

blizzard also had 0 prior experience to mmos. the fact that mythic and blizzard decided to beta their games differently has everything to do with experience. if you want that type of game i suggest you take a look at AoC. its practically featureless, and some of its features are half implemented. (mounted combat for only half the classes anyone?) its got one race, just a handfull of classes, and its combat system tries to hybridise the mmo system with a fps, but its graphics and animation are superb.

i personally would rather them get the game near complete, and let them insert all the steps of an animation in then, along with the high res testures.

most of what your talking about are feelings, and while its fair to state what your feelings are they are merely feelings. your feelings that the graphics wont improve, even though everyone tells you they will, even though the devs have stated the graphics are not fully implemented in terms of texture, or animation is counter to the information that we have on hand. all becuse some other game had graphics you remeber as good at this stage in beta, even though if my memeory serves me correct most of wows early complaints were 100% about graphics before it was released.

[Snuggans]

videos such as these show combat potential in the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFn2XZlTstg

videos such as these show environment and graphic potential in the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F33H9QPRH_U

and for the billionth time folks: the game doesn't come out for approximately 6 months. know what this means? there is only room for improvement. and what i've seen greatly challenges WoW, so imagine in 6 months? have some faith.


i really have no idea what you naysayers are talking about? :confused:

[Findolin]

I don't understand what people praise about "fast" or "fluid" WoW combat anyway. /shrug

[Llamazerker]

videos such as these show combat potential in the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFn2XZlTstg

videos such as these show environment and graphic potential in the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F33H9QPRH_U

and for the billionth time folks: the game doesn't come out for approximately 6 months. know what this means? there is only room for improvement. and what i've seen greatly challenges WoW, so imagine in 6 months?


i really have no idea what you naysayers are talking about? :confused:

its ok. people worry becuse they are worryworts. if it wasn't this it would be over something else. its got to go somewhere, and if it wasn't graphics, it would be gameplay, and if it wasn't gameplay it would be balance, and if it wasn't balance it would be any other function of the game that we cannot see 100% of. think of it as a survival instinct, and resist the urge not to pummel them over the head with a large club. :rolleyes:

these concerns will go away at release, and new ones will sprout up as we get to expereince the game. then it will most likely be something like class A. is way overpowered becuse he killed class B., and i am clearly teh pwner of deh mad skillz and this is proof that class A. needs a nerf.

[Oak]

For those people making direct graphical comparisons to World of Warcraft; until you place Warhammer and World of Warcraft directly side by side it's easy to overlook how bad World of Warcraft really is these days.

Warhammer: Age of Reckoning is leaps and bounds above and beyond World of Warcrafts graphical presentation, despite how "washed out" the colours may or may not look to some people. The animation and the apparent "on next hit" combat that's prevalent are what is making the combat itself feel sluggish, and it's that which has most people concerned.

Oh, and here; a direct graphical comparison I just made of a WoW Screenshot that was taken this week, and one of Wararhammer that was taken over a year ago (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowvswarhammerorcty3.jpg) - both of Orcs.

Hey thanks alot :)

Credit where it's due.

[Tharg]

There's definitely a sense of humour present, but it doesn't seem to have seeped into the detail and atmosphere of the world,

Do these people know anything about the Warhammer world?. I guess you have to have birds named Orly and Linken's around every corner to be fun these days... I see it in alot of TV as well (especially ticks me off with the new Doctor Who series) oooh gotta have your pop culture references or the kids will think ya square! cant take anything serious these days... oh no no no. :roll:

It's as if someone has taken WOW's world and drained half the colour, atmosphere and liveliness from it

Welcome to the bleak world of Warhammer :rolleyes: or maybe WoW took the Warhammer world and added lashings of vibrant colors, happyness and flowers.

The graphics are sharp and well-finished, but the artwork is quite plain and characterless, and the animation isn't fluid enough

Opposed to neon pinks and blues, florid armor designs that look like mardi gras costumes and chi bi buildings.

beh that left a bad taste in my mouth reading that...

[Njor]

I really liked the disciple RvR video (very recent not nda breaking released video), and I thought it was pretty interresting. Though it kind off sucks when you have no idea about what skills are being used and more or less what is happening ;)

[Grag Bashfullson]

Oh, and here; a direct graphical comparison I just made of a WoW Screenshot that was taken this week, and one of Wararhammer that was taken over a year ago (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowvswarhammerorcty3.jpg) - both of Orcs.


Awesome. There's no comparison.

[Binnesman]

Totally a biased article the writer has clearly only ever played WoW or is a serious fanatic of the series. Referring everything to WoW and bashing WAR for calling classes "careers". I mean come on I thought this kind of one sided reporting was only for cable news.

[Malis]

Im pretty sure that combat will be a bit slower paced than say wow, however im pretty sure its not going to be 2-5 seconds.......wow im dead already?

From the videos i can kinda see where they are coming from, but then again non of the videos are from the finished released game.

[VonLeipzig]

[quote=NoneSuch;764235]Once again, What do you expect? Has watching MMO's Ever been Thrilling?

Never, have I ever been "thrilled" by a video of a MMO. I actually don't think I've ever been thrilled over any gaming video, Because games simply are boring to watch. Who the heck wants to watch someone farming Boars on Wow? .. Then again that's not even fun to play.

[quote]

I am. Viewing videos from PvP fights in a good animated MMO, and learning the tactics players use is one of the MOST interesting points of play.

Certainly in a MMO that leans purely on PVP/RvR.

[Warbear]

I don't get what people don't understand about beta?

I mean, the NDA is for stuff like this. The game isn't finished, it's had it's closed beta feedback (hence the delay until Fall). This isn't a free run, or a demo, it's for testing, and feedback.

Anyways... I'm so tired of hearing about WoW when talking about WAR.

I'm not a hater... it's just old now.... very, very, very....old.

[Krigare]

This has been a fun thread to read. Everyone just keeps saying the same things!

[Slice]

The one thing that I dislike about Warhammer is the auto-attack rate, and global cooldown. Imo, the attack rate should be defined by the weapon's attack speed (it looks like 2 seconds for everyone, as far as I can tell), and the cooldown could be reduced to 1.5 seconds, instead of two, to allow for quicker responses. I feel the game doesn't let people with amazing reflexes do what they're good at, which is a bit meh. I probably won't be playing MDPS anyways, so I'm, personally, not that bothered by the 2s swing timer.

PS: Don't get me wrong, I don't want it to be as fast as WoW. WoW's, at least on a Rogue, had the potential to be.. off the charts (Reason why haste was nerfed in WoW (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b146/Lancelot1/1b5d5e93.jpg), look at the numbers above the mob, weapon speed, and TPS - 4x the tank's!).

[VonLeipzig]

For those people making direct graphical comparisons to World of Warcraft; until you place Warhammer and World of Warcraft directly side by side it's easy to overlook how bad World of Warcraft really is these days.

Warhammer: Age of Reckoning is leaps and bounds above and beyond World of Warcrafts graphical presentation, despite how "washed out" the colours may or may not look to some people. The animation and the apparent "on next hit" combat that's prevalent are what is making the combat itself feel sluggish, and it's that which has most people concerned.

Oh, and here; a direct graphical comparison I just made of a WoW Screenshot that was taken this week, and one of Wararhammer that was taken over a year ago (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wowvswarhammerorcty3.jpg) - both of Orcs.



Credit where it's due.

This is exactly the things I am afraid off/

A still image...

A video game, even a MMORPG one is about a n i m a t i on.

read ANIMATION.

If you look at a photo like the Flintstones or the Simpsons they don't compare well against japanese ones do they.

Until .... they come live.

Now I certainly don't want to compare War with a B rated Japanese cartoon, but it's the animation that counts in a PvP based game. Period.

Graphics resolution is secondary to animation. You MUST feel you Avatar, NOT some stupid lifeless puppet with a stick in his like LOTRO and all those other "new" MMO's had.

And sorry but DAoC had NOT a very good animation either.

[Luzitloh]

This comment makes me think that the writer knows nothing about the Warhammer world. And I don't remember WoW's World being very lively.

Also, to anyone worrying about the graphics, I point you to this (http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/29629).
Yea that comment suxed... Wonder is hes ever been in nowdays WoW when the only thing you hear in BGs are "Rush Rush N00b", "ing n00b", "learn 2 play n00b", what the n00b", "n00b" and so on.
And in cities:
WTSWTSwTs
LF ENCHATER!!! pllzz1!1!! im wow
And mindless chatter like" im ten i got to go to bed at 21:00".


And I have to agree to two things in the comments and the actullel review.
Yes they do mention WoW alot and thats bad, so wrong... And yet you understand them. I mean cmon WoW has had a huge impact on MMO gaming world.

Second:
He says somewhere dont know where somthing like :::::
Quote!!!!


The character classes (or "careers" - WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on)


End Quote.

Well you little brat...PVP and RVR are to diffrent things!! and Im sure he only thinks of WoW PvP where the only goal os to "pwn".
while in RvR is, as I hope ALL of you know, Realm vs Realm and not Player vs Player. You see the diffrence ONE vs ONE and Realm vs Realm... So for that noob authorer of that review RvR is an other type of Player vs Player and not the same (Dont make any sense but I hope you know they are diffrerent), Like is PvP are a sailboat RvR is a cruiser .^^

I wouldent mind so much about this review. lol read in the comment that one guy would not buy WAR cuz he read that review and now thinks its crap, like get your own BRAIN. he reads 959 words and completly changes his mind. I mean cmon get some own thinking and opinion. Plus the game is still in BETA(Seen picures of your precious WoW in Alpha and Beta...its wasent they best aninimations and stuff there then-.-) even if Mytichs lacks of animations ( which from the vidoes ive seen they not..mabey a little but thats cuz im used to WoW...but they are two diffrent games hey.
They dont have the money Blizzard has, down to the end its all about how much money you got when making a game.



Then the part about that it was Mytichs fall that they taken away danceing...I really dont care much for danceing-.-, I mean how can that be such an big inpact on the gameplay...really hope ppl buy games for the gameplay not the option to dance. Like sure it can be fun but its like 0.00005% of the game =/.

Another thing was that about ppl not being formilier with Warhammer world should not be so tempted by this game. Well here this out I wasent in to the Warhammer World before waiting for this glorius game. neither was my friends.
And they comparement of Warhammer Lore and Warcraft Lore mentioned in this review suxed... Warhammer was created years before Warcraft (some says warcraft was a clever copy of warhammer).!!!!!!:o:o

In the downline... this review shall be /ignored and forgotten by the ppl of this world.:mad::mad::mad:


So do this! If your intrested in this game...try it yourself!! mabey you like it mabey you dont..

look its 00:49 in sweden now and im tierd as hell so this post has actully been written half asleep..will come back tomorrow and repair some typos and mabey write some more...till then ciao!:p Review SUCXS

[TickTock]

We aren't bashing the writer for the negative preview. We're flaming him because he hes completely blind about everything hes saying. "RvR is just a rebrand to PvP" is a completely blind comment. His "Preview" feels more like a WoW vs WAR comparison.

The man even goes back on what he says:
The key thing to understand about realm warfare is that everything you do in the game - whether fighting other players or not - contributes to it.

Then
WAR has an acute case of that MMO disease of needing to rebrand every convention, with levels becoming ranks, battlegrounds becoming scenarios, PVP becoming RVR and so on

[abr4]

In the downline... this review shall be /ignored and forgotten by the ppl of this world.:mad::mad::mad:

Oh it will most certainly not be, because I quite enjoyed the review.

We aren't bashing the writer for the negative preview. We're flaming him because he hes completely blind about everything hes saying. "RvR is just a rebrand to PvP" is a completely blind comment. His "Preview" feels more like a WoW vs WAR comparison.

You're bashing him over nonsense.

[Luzitloh]

Oh it will most certainly not be, because I quite enjoyed it.

Well there are many other reviews that dont compare WAR to WoW instead gives us a 100% WAR review. Explains they features and settings gives there neatural opinion on the game.
Most say that this review wasent complete waste of time. just a little

[Llamazerker]

The one thing that I dislike about Warhammer is the auto-attack rate, and global cooldown. Imo, the attack rate should be defined by the weapon's attack speed (it looks like 2 seconds for everyone, as far as I can tell), and the cooldown could be reduced to 1.5 seconds, instead of two, to allow for quicker responses. I feel the game doesn't let people with amazing reflexes do what they're good at, which is a bit meh. I probably won't be playing MDPS anyways, so I'm, personally, not that bothered by the 2s swing timer.

PS: Don't get me wrong, I don't want it to be as fast as WoW. WoW's, at least on a Rogue, had the potential to be.. off the charts (Reason why haste was nerfed in WoW (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b146/Lancelot1/1b5d5e93.jpg), look at the numbers above the mob, weapon speed, and TPS - 4x the tank's!).

i think this is what is called twitch combat. the best example would probly be overpower with wow warriors. your enemy dodges, it opens up an attack that you can hit. you could also probly consider kick/gouge or other interupts twitch combat.

from what i've gathered wow wasn't a big contributer to twitch combat. i would be suprised if warhammer didn't have much, or any twitch combat.

also, i would also be suprised if reducing a gloabal cooldown contributed to twitch combat. the perpose of a global cooldown is to prevent click fests, since twitch combat by definition isn't spammable it could never be a click fest, so why would it be part of the global cooldown?

it would be really hard to tell at this point how much twitch combat war will have. partially becuse its hard to know what we are seeing, and partially becuse they are still balancing abilities to make sure all of them do what their supposed too. it would be better to investigate what mythics intentions are for twitch combat, then to try and interpret videos.

[Vilehakk]

Just like the last article that said the same thing months ago, and equally lambasted by the community. I also see that I'm not alone in my impressions of this RvR thing, and the rebranding of common mmo lexicon so WAR is "different."

Like some of the more clear-headed posters here trying to point out the VALUE of honest and objective feedback, I worry about the future viability of WAR, and if it will be different enough. Yes, as a mmo gamer, I know all the talking points people have already written over and over, and yes, it makes WAR slightly different, but is that a radical enough difference to someone who's played only WoW or perhaps another mmo?

This is why these articles worry me, and instead of dismissing them outright with all the classic excuses (WoW fanboy, doesnt know what he's talking about, bias, its in beta, etc etc etc) you guys should consider the input objectively and go back and look at what info is released. Beyond the mechanics that only us mmo geeks will care about, what puts WAR apart? What does it offer that will make it a success?

Asking these very hard questions is key, and we shouldn't dismiss this article out of hand. Despite my annoyance at Mythic's piss poor project management skills, I have a hope that the 6 months is enough time to fix some of the things people keep pointing out (graphics, animation, rvr implementation) and give us a swell game. The concept behind WAR is very compelling, and it would be a shame if it was diluted.

[abr4]

Well there are many other reviews that dont compare WAR to WoW instead gives us a 100% WAR review.

Uh, so? If I'm familiar with WoW and someone tries to explain a new MMO a comparison with something well known would be most welcome. Heck if I was talking to the person giving me the overview I'd probably ask for those comparisons.

Also your last sentence has a completely different tone of voice than the sentence I quoted before.

[Slice]

Let me put it this way - the point of a lower global cooldown for Rogues in WoW was so they could still Kick (interrupt, or attempt to) a 1-1.5s cast spell, even if they just used a skill and are within the global cooldown. The purpose of a lower global cooldown is for people to be able to use their emergency buttons at the smallest possible interval.

You're bashing him over nonsense.
We're bashing him because he's nonsensical, and, apparently, bipolar.

Now I certainly don't want to compare War with a B rated Japanese cartoon, but it's the animation that counts in a PvP based game. Period.
You, my dear sir, should go back to WoW if you think that animation is what counts in a PvP-oriented game.

It's balance and gameplay that count, nothing else. I could be playing a stick figure, for all I care, as long as gameplay is fascinating.

[Browncoat-WHA]

I warned you folks. Pretty disappointing, really - you should be ashamed of yourselves.

To certain people who hate the article: You ruined the thread by being terribly dismissive and offering no constructive criticism other than "zomg WoW fanboy". Not everything is goin to be positive and instead of providing intelligent discussion you would prefer to provide a mindless bash or a flame of the author. Don't like something? fine, but don't respond with something that dismisses the entire article without recognizing some of its legitimacy.

To certain people who support the article: You ruined the thread by being terribly dismissive to the people who hate the article, by offering no other constructive criticism or response other than accusations of fanboyism. Support for the game does not mean someone is blind to its flaws, and sweeping general statements meant to insult don't have any place here. In addiiton, someone linekd to NDA-breaking material, and that's not allowed, sorry.

To the people who didn't care: You ruined the thread by not using report post and instead putting in random one-liner comments that contributed nothing to the thread and were funny for a grand total of 3 seconds. If you have nothing constructive to contribute to a thrad, don't post. It doesn't help.

In short, this thread fails so much at being productive it belongs in the Volcano as an example of how not to have a discussion thread. Please try to be more respectful of each other opinions and the opinions of those outside of this forum in the future. There is such a thing as a good discussion about differing views without the ridiculous stuff that happened in this thread. Respectful, constructive posts go a much longer way than bashing something or someone for having an opinion.

*VOLCANOED with a torched filet mignon*