Problem with shadow warriors and city kings

[kevo1022]

So mythic has stated numerous times that the shadow warrior will not be able to put out as much sheer damage as the bright wizard and engineer. That's fine with me in terms of pvp. However, they said that the final boss in city raids (the kings) would be pve 24 man instanced encounters. This raises the question of why anyone would bring a shadow warrior instead of a bright wizard....Will we be left out?

[Kilrogg-WHA]

Because they're their friend/guildmate/realmmate?

I doubt WAR PvE raids will like WoW's, where you need a specific set of classes and if one person screws up the whole raid dies. It'll probably be a lot more forgiving, or at least I hope so.

[Eredhel]

The strength of the Shadow Warrior in RvR will be in their versatility: they will have something in their arsenal to counter pretty much everything thrown at them to some degree. I'm sure Mythic have not forgotten to extend this versatility to the PvE side of things. Without knowing specific skills yet though, we will have to wait and see.

[XShrike]

From my experience with PvE bosses steady DPS is better than burst DPS.

With the burst DPS of a Bright Wizard he could get a big critical at the wrong time, pulling his target off the tank to him. Depending on the group, this may lead to a wipe as the boss one shots the softer classes going down his threat ranks. The whole time the tank is trying to get agro back.

The steady DPS of a Shadow Warrior would avoid this. Steadily drop the bosses health with the tank having an easier job maintaining agro.

[WarGreek01]

2 things:

1 --> depending on the spec of the BW, they might be much more AoE focused and thus will be good for dealing with swarms of ads but won't be terrific for 1 target combat.

2 --> They have higher DPS because of their crits: however, their crits come with a combustion increase that also increases the chance that they will blow themselves up. If the King is as powerful as Mythic is making them out to be, then healers will have to focus their attention on spike-healing the tanks so that the entire group doesn't wipe. It will be difficult/impossible (and if not difficult, definitely a nuisance) to heal a group of BW's while they are blowing themselves up. SW's will do slightly less burst damage, but our sustained damage will be equal if not better because we won't have to stop casting our powerful abilities for fear of hurting ourselves.

All in all, smart groups will take a mixture of all 3 RDPS classes so that they get the benefits of each.

[Eredhel]

2 --> They have higher DPS because of their crits: however, their crits come with a combustion increase that also increases the chance that they will blow themselves up. If the King is as powerful as Mythic is making them out to be, then healers will have to focus their attention on spike-healing the tanks so that the entire group doesn't wipe. It will be difficult/impossible (and if not difficult, definitely a nuisance) to heal a group of BW's while they are blowing themselves up. SW's will do slightly less burst damage, but our sustained damage will be equal if not better because we won't have to stop casting our powerful abilities for fear of hurting ourselves.


I now suddenly have the desire to RP a retarded Bright Wizard that blows himself up quite often :D

[AlienOverlord]

Mythic mentioned that the High Elf Swordsmaster is a tank with a magical basis to his abilities so people might want to bring them against magical-based bosses.

By the same token, the Shadow Warrior will be doing DPS by physical damage (presumably) so they may be prefered against bosses with high magical resistance.

It seems Mythic is differentiating between physical and magic damage, perhaps to encourage the various classes to be strong in different situcations.

[Servitude]

You cannot think of PvE in terms of damage alone. Debuffs play an important roll against bosses. You also have to take into account survivability, mobility, and support abilities. Sure, a Shadow Warrior may not be able to keep up with the damage of a Bright Wizard, but the Bright Wizard will probably be much easier to kill, have fewer debuffs available, and probably will not have as good of support abilities as the SW.

My two cents.

[Velryn]

Listen, I really don't think this is going to be WoW 2. PvE probably won't be as vital that every person does as they're told with extreme precise accuracy. I also believe that Shadow Warriors will make up for there "DPS" lacking with there great survivability.

[Eredhel]

I also believe that Shadow Warriors will make up for there "DPS" lacking with there great survivability.

Yep and higher survivability = less work for healers = healers having more time to heal tanks :)

[Pyke]

I doubt WAR PvE raids will like WoW's, where you need a specific set of classes and if one person screws up the whole raid dies. It'll probably be a lot more forgiving, or at least I hope so.

Didn't Jeff say that they were predicting it would be over a year before someone took down a king? Although he said they would most likely be shocked by how fast the community ended up doing it... So not sure how forgiving that 24 man will be.

[Eredhel]

Didn't Jeff say that they were predicting it would be over a year before someone took down a king? Although he said they would most likely be shocked by how fast the community ended up doing it... So not sure how forgiving that 24 man will be.

That may have been an old estimate though. In the latest paris RvR video he said that they expect it to take a couple of weeks to get to a city siege and once taken, cities will push the attackers out after about 12-18 hours. So theoretically it could only take 2 weeks to get the king. Seeing as the kings will be in a 24-person raid, it cant be that much harder to take out the king. Otherwise people would just give up :D

[ChosenOne]

So mythic has stated numerous times that the shadow warrior will not be able to put out as much sheer damage as the bright wizard and engineer. That's fine with me in terms of pvp. However, they said that the final boss in city raids (the kings) would be pve 24 man instanced encounters. This raises the question of why anyone would bring a shadow warrior instead of a bright wizard....Will we be left out?

Because this game is not based around PvE. You will not form your regular groups based on a class's ability in certain PvE dungeons but instead on how well a player handles themselves on the dynamic battlefield. When you go to the PvE dungeons you will be going with people you trust on the battlefields with the intention of getting a bit stronger for RvR through those PvE dungeons.

Atleast that is how I will handle it.


Also, dont forget about the uncanny ability given to the SW to kite targets. In a target rich dungeon area a shadow warrior may be called upon to do just that. Bright wizards cannot do that nearly as well.

[Kaeldor]

Even from a straight pve persepective, it depends on how the encounters are designed. I have no idea how it is now in WOW, but for example fire mages were really good in Naxx ( I know o----ld stuff), but still on boss fights where you had to move a lot, other classes could keep up, or even did better damage. So if those boss fights are not just designed to be "stand and nuke" fights, SW could also keep up or even dish out more damage over a battle than a BW.

As other have pointed out, there are also other things like buffs/debuffs, magic/physical immunities, survavibility, which all contribute to why a class should be taken to a fight or not, even if you leave the things Kilrogg said aside.

[Pyke]

That may have been an old estimate though. In the latest paris RvR video he said that they expect it to take a couple of weeks to get to a city siege and once taken, cities will push the attackers out after about 12-18 hours. So theoretically it could only take 2 weeks to get the king. Seeing as the kings will be in a 24-person raid, it cant be that much harder to take out the king. Otherwise people would just give up :D

50 mins into the QandA with Jeff http://trailer.onlinewelten.com/videos,id3484,warhammer_online_videointerview_jeff _hickman.html

He goes so a year into release someone finally beats Karl Franz... someone says something in the crowd followed by laughter he then goes yea a week...laughs then says No I know how hard this encounter will be.

Seems to me something people will be trying and failing on for quite some time. And people won't give up they will just have to lay siege to the city again and again intill they can get the encounter down.

[Velryn]

Ok take it from this perspective. Say Malekith is a boss that requires everyone to run around alot to dodge raining fire missiles or something like that. This is just an example. The SW can keep moving as he shoots, while a BW I assume stops casting when he starts moving. Reasons like this keep Shadow Warrior's in the raid spots if you want to be completely WoWish and PvEish about it.

[Slice]

Mythic mentioned that the High Elf Swordsmaster is a tank with a magical basis to his abilities so people might want to bring them against magical-based bosses.

By the same token, the Shadow Warrior will be doing DPS by physical damage (presumably) so they may be prefered against bosses with high magical resistance.

It seems Mythic is differentiating between physical and magic damage, perhaps to encourage the various classes to be strong in different situcations.
Engineers and BWs have quite a few AoE abilities, whereas the Shadow Warrior has only a handful. I think he can do the same amount of (or more) sustained DPS that a BW or Engineer can, if he's sniper specced.

And he probably has some sort of utility, so there's that too.

[Ceyl]

I really doubt that Mythic would design the King-encounter in a way, so it couldnt be done if you brought a SW or two.

There will always be an optimal setup for a PvE encounter (though it may differ per encounter), and some jackasses will insist of going only with the optimal group. However, if you play good, then every setup should be possible. Otherwise its the fault of the devs.

My opinion.