Grudge vs Hatred

[vehemoth]

I had some thoughts regarding grudge vs. Hatred.

At first glance it seems that the Ironbreaker's Grudge, which generates when any of the Ironbreaker's group members are attacked, is much more powerful than the Black Guard's Hatred, which only generates when he takes some punishment.

The Ironbreaker's mechanic says "attack the ironbreaker or else!". The Ironbreaker is built for this mechanic because he can take LOTS of punishment and the more directed at him the better. The Blackguard on the hand, while considerably tough, favors a 2h and so lacks the extra defense a shield gives. Allow me to explain why the best defense in this case is a good offense.


If you don't attack the blackguard he can swing at you with his Halberd all day long as much as he likes. This is a pretty big incentive to attack him
The Blackgaurd, like the other tanks, has the protection ability which splits 50% of the damage his ally of choice takes with himself. Attack his ally, that Blackguard is going to strike you down and doing something about it is going to make it worse.
If the Blackgaurd takes damage from aoe's or dot's, guess what, he's got hatred against YOU.
The hatred mechanic is perfect for the blackguard playstyle. I am sure even the best case for grudge being better can be disputed. They are equal it seems.

[ChosenOne]

Well, for those looking to grind up as fast as they can I think some of the fastest will be blackguards. In PvE grinding Everything attacks you.

Also for blackguards, the skill Guard. Remember that? What if he has guard set on his disciple buddy that is in the middle of the battle? OH! Kill that disciple! Uh oh....perhaps thats building up the blackguards hatred who is standing right next to him guarding him and taking some of the blows?

What if a blackguard has a focus ability of some sort that he puts on a target. Its kind of a reverse taunt that works the same way. You see it on you, it doesnt lower your damage on anyone else but if you dont attack the blackguard that put it on you his hatred for you grows stronger due to your disrespect towards him. Now you have to attack him else he is seriously going to be doing major harm to you soon.

Its really going to depend on how well they allow the blackguard to boost his hatred. Either way, the ironbreaker player better know how to make friends.

[ManiaCCC]

With mirroring different class mechanics especially for tanks and healers I wouldn't be suprised at all if Grudge and Hatred mechanics will works in exactly same way.

[ChosenOne]

With mirroring different class mechanics especially for tanks and healers I wouldn't be suprised at all if Grudge and Hatred mechanics will works in exactly same way.

When you look at yourself in a mirror the image looks the same but if you look closer you realize the image is opposite. Hence why its called mirroring in WAR. Hatred and Grudge look identical on the surface but when you delve into it you realize they are indeed opposite examples of the same type of mechanic.

They build up a form of "rage" meter, but the ironbreaker earns it when his groupmates are attacked (possibly himself too, not sure if that is confirmed) and the blackguard earns his when HE is attacked. Sounds very similiar but when it comes down to the gameplay it is actually quite opposite in how it will affect the gameplay.

[ManiaCCC]

When you look at yourself in a mirror the image looks the same but if you look closer you realize the image is opposite. Hence why its called mirroring in WAR. Hatred and Grudge look identical on the surface but when you delve into it you realize they are indeed opposite examples of the same type of mechanic.

They build up a form of "rage" meter, but the ironbreaker earns it when his groupmates are attacked (possibly himself too, not sure if that is confirmed) and the blackguard earns his when HE is attacked. Sounds very similiar but when it comes down to the gameplay it is actually quite opposite in how it will affect the gameplay.

Ok..you are right with mirror thing :) but still.. I belive hatred and grudge will work in same way.

But I would prefer if they would mixed both system.. Like.. BG and IB will earn some hatred/grudge when they are attacked, but more when their goupmates are under attack :)

[ChosenOne]

Ok..you are right with mirror thing :) but still.. I belive hatred and grudge will work in same way.

But I would prefer if they would mixed both system.. Like.. BG and IB will earn some hatred/grudge when they are attacked, but more when their goupmates are under attack :)


Well if I had to balance it I would let the ironbreaker build grudge for attacks against both him and his groupmates but it would build much less per attack then what the blackguard builds per attack.

The blackguard would also need an ability or two in order to help him build hatred if no one is attacking him directly. Such as letting the Guard ability build his hatred. Or him having a focus ability to put on a single target so that if that target doesnt attack him it really pisses him off, thus building his hatred.

[Xxpect]

How about if they both get hatred/grudge whenever they or their allies are attacked, but the BG gets more hatred when he is attacked and less when it is an ally and the IB gets more grudge when his allies are attacked and less when he is attacked. Same basic mechanic, but balanced a little differently. Just an idea to consider.

[Lucrece]

They're not mirrors, as they are completely different tank types. One is the anti-melee tank, the other an anti-magic one. I'm pretty sure that the Blackguard's mechanic will include some form of gimmick that boosts his tanking type.