Renown and your Black Orc

[Malis]

So in the dev chat it was mentioned that with renown points you can buy stats.

Specifically he mentioned block.

For those of us who are planning to spec defensivly....what do you think?

Personally I think it will be great....Max block, parry, and toughness.

[Koojo]

Definately a good idea when speccing defensively. It was also mentioned how a defensively specced player will have a great advantage when using shields than one who specced offensively. This'll just be icing on the adamantium cake.

[Chasington]

Yeah I definitely want to have as much block % as possible with my tanks. After block % I'd go with the next thing... parry, evade, armor, then wounds.

[Darzok]

I don't think it will be a large boost maybe like 5-10% so after block STR might be best to boost attack give your self a little punch as well but wemight be able to build the point's till we can max all.

[Koojo]

I don't think it will be a large boost maybe like 5-10% so after block might be best to boost attack give your self a little punch as well but wemight be able to build the point's till we can max all.

Nah I believe there are just a few passive abilities that you can choose from, but even fewer points. For example, say there's "Tough as Nails", and it might have 5 ranks of a toughness boost...you could spend say, 25 points for it or whatever, but you're going to be limiting the other abilities you can add to because you might only have 40 points total (I'm just making up numbers).

Additionally, though I'm not sure, I think it's possible to spend those points on actual abilities as well, rather than hard stats, but don't quote me on that.

[Grizzy]

hope they do include abilities, the system wud just be plain simple and boring w/o them.

[DaveDoom]

I think you'll find that will renown abilities the ones that you will want to get first DO NOT INCLUDE the stat blocks. There are probably renown abilities other than stats that you will want to get as soon as possible.

[Spikey]

Indeed. I was thinking of speccing agressively, but after he said how much difference a shield will make it's making me second guess heh.

[Malis]

Im positive that there will probably be stuff that you will want more.

However its good that you CAN buy stuff like that. However for a defensivly spec'd Black Orc it might be worth it to get the block.

Dont know if they still are in game...but a couple tactics was something like "increase your chance to block by 50%" "everytime you block everyone in your group gets 2 seconds of morale" and one of the skills is a finisher that increases your chance to block by 25% for about 10 seconds........

abilities like that make it seem that it could be worth it to pick up heavy block and parry....as some of the black orc skills are "can only be used after a block or parry".

[Hurkatan]

Personally I think it will be great....Max block, parry, and toughness.

you forgot about dodge :)

[Baradun]

I'm wondering how possible it will be to block / dodge magic attacks. or will it be no matter how tough, good at dodgeing or blocking you are you'll receive the full brunt of the magic attack.

Unless you spec in "mage slayer" or something, buffing up all the different winds of magic resistance in exchange for lesser mele defense, perhapse just make this magic resistance buff selectable from tactics rather than a perminant change.

[Truckle]

Yeh i have to admit i am a little worried that we will be nothing but boil in the bag morsels for a bright wizzie or something.

I am still more than likely going to spec up to be a double hard tho as i can, its just the way i play, i can't help it. With knockdowns and other fun stuff being linked off blocking attacks im looking forward to putting those hammerers back on their arses (not that they have far to go mind)

As for renown though im not exactly expecting to be topping the charts at all as a tank, its just the price you pay, i'm happy enough to pay it when i can look that cool and be rock hard.

[Malis]

I'm wondering how possible it will be to block / dodge magic attacks. or will it be no matter how tough, good at dodgeing or blocking you are you'll receive the full brunt of the magic attack.

Unless you spec in "mage slayer" or something, buffing up all the different winds of magic resistance in exchange for lesser mele defense, perhapse just make this magic resistance buff selectable from tactics rather than a perminant change.

I think that Chosen and Black Orcs will be weak against magic using classes. The black guard and sword master seem to be the heavy magic resist tanks while the chosen and black orc against physical damage.

[Gemini]

I'd say the Chosen moreso than the Black Orc for heavy armor, so maybe the Black Orc is inbetween?

[Malis]

Maybe, most of the player reviews from things like a game day convention that i have read, seem to indicate that the Black Orc are very very sturdy tanks.

How this relates to how "tanky" the Black orc is compared to the chosen....not sure, but what seems to be presented is that the black orc is 100% no doubts a tank class. :grin:

I could see the Black Orc as bieng the in between tank. Their offensive focus (disabling primary enemy and such) tends to support that....but who knows.

I just cant wait until beta!!!

[Orandyn]

I honestly think that all of the tanks will have about equal magic skill, with the black guard being most offensive (halberd weapons) and the black orc being most defensive (with both the heaviest-looking armor AND the fact that they are already sturdy orcs).

[Gemini]

Well, the devs disagree with you there. The Black Orc is described as an offensive tank, while the Chosen is defensive. Also, they said the Black Guard would have anti-magic capabilities.

[Krylzay]

The Black Orc is meant to take some hits and deal a lot back. The Chaos is meant to take damage and deal a bit back.

[Manijin]

I'll be going full on on toughness, personally. I like having high block rating, which is probably what I'll go for next, but the ability to just shrug off a percentage of all damage is really nice, plus it makes for a very effective tank in PvE (I really like the public quest system :)).

I just prefer to have more control over my damage, and I wager the block ratings of the Black Orc are going to get higher when you spec defensively, as well as gear defensively. So I'm leaving it to equipment and spec to increase block, parry, etc. while I focus on limiting all incoming damage.

[Skalding]

Any mention on whether or not after we buy these stats, we'll be able to relocate them if we decide to change our Mastery path (Tell me if I'm using the term wrong). So, assume I wanted to take the DPS Mastery path for Black Orc (That massive Cleava has to do some damage) after having already spent a lot of points in the Defensive Mastery, will I be able to re-spend them in other stats?

[Splitty]

Any mention on whether or not after we buy these stats, we'll be able to relocate them if we decide to change our Mastery path (Tell me if I'm using the term wrong). So, assume I wanted to take the DPS Mastery path for Black Orc (That massive Cleava has to do some damage) after having already spent a lot of points in the Defensive Mastery, will I be able to re-spend them in other stats?

One would imagine that re-speccing will be in the game, albeit for a charge.

[Malis]

As far as renown bought stats....we dont know. Thus far all we know is that you CAN buy them, if they are able to be moved, that information has not been mentioned.

I hope you can though.

[Kruggak]

More then likely i will go with spending renowned where it will do the most good. If i can get high block out of gear then it could be better spent else where to support my char while my blocking from gear works its magic

But until we get more info on alot of things we cant really talk about this

[Circasurvive]

Can't deny a tank rolling around with a ridiculous amount of health. Whenever i played a healing class i was quick to judge the tank based on their health not their block,parry,evade rating LOL. I'm not saying i'm perfect, but i know you WoW players who got into a heroic group and the tank only has 14k health are not as comfortable as the tank who has 17k health+.

[Malis]

@Kruggak

Thats what im waiting for too. Depending on how close to the Soft Cap you can get with just gear ill decide on what stats to buy, but i do know i want my block/parry and such up there.

@Circasurvive

Well, I think it would depend on the situation. Id sacrifice some health for the others, however Im sure that all tanks will be rolling around with good health pools.

[Munthalk]

I usually asked for all of a tank's stats, or an armory link, before inviting a tank to a heroic.

For healing purposes if they didn't have the parry/dodge then they would just be spiked down even if they had that 20k hp pool. Personally I stuck with only the few good tanks on my server that I knew, but my opinion may not be extremely recent as I've been off of WoW for quite some time now.

[pajamajam]

We just used a Druid for a tank. Nothing tanks heroics like a Druid

[Munthalk]

I never said I used a Warrior, and I'm not sure why it matters. I used whichever player was better.

[Warp_Dancer]

with the way they have been describing how armor penetration works, it seems like it will almost be manditory to take any passive that ups those additional defensive skills such as block/parry/etc. no matter how you choose to spec. just to counter the ap. not that its a bad thing. and i guess being able to boost those kinds of skills through the additional renown buys alone, will allow for someone to go all 2hander spec, and still be a meat mountain.

[Axxar]

On my Chosen I'd probably focus on increasing my block rating and the Toughness stat, followed by Wounds.

[Baconbitz]

I think it would be great if mythic could make sword and board viable for RVR, rather than DAOC's spec 42 points into shield for slam just so you can switch a shield out for slam and then right back to your 2h'er for everything else.

I just dont see the reason a tank that wants to kill something quickly needs to be required to pull out a 2h'er and pretend to be a dps class.

[Under_World]

That's still whats going to happen. A heavily defensive class, no matter how many taunts you have or how much utility you bring will still be pretty much an ignore target.

The defensive specs will be taken for their offensive options in most cases.

[Gemini]

That's still whats going to happen. A heavily defensive class, no matter how many taunts you have or how much utility you bring will still be pretty much an ignore target.

The defensive specs will be taken for their offensive options in most cases.

Your looking at it way too much from a PvE point of view. The tank dosn't have to be the one soaking up the damage to be protecting their allies. Since we're in the Black Orc forum, let's use one as an example. Lets say you have a party, and in this party is a Black Orc and a Shaman, among others. They run into another party, with a couple of DPS classes, lets just say an Engineer and a Witch Hunter.

Oh no, they're focus-firing on my Gobbo, whats a Black Orc to do? I can't let the Shaman die! The Black orc pops his guard skill on the Shaman, thus reducing all damage the poor little guy takes, then taunts the Engineer to cut out a large percentage of the damage. And then, as the Shaman is trying to run from the Witch Hunter, the Black Orc uses a snare on the WH to help.

There, in three skills, and is already a great hinderance to his enemies and literally a life-saver to his allies. The DPS classes could choose to ignore the Black Orc, but unlike in PvE, if they do that, the Black Orc is still doing his job, which is protecting his allies. If they choose to target the Black Orc, then he's also doing his job. Either way, his allies are being protected, and thats exactly what a tank is there for, to protect his allies.

[Malis]

Your looking at it way too much from a PvE point of view. The tank dosn't have to be the one soaking up the damage to be protecting their allies. Since we're in the Black Orc forum, let's use one as an example. Lets say you have a party, and in this party is a Black Orc and a Shaman, among others. They run into another party, with a couple of DPS classes, lets just say an Engineer and a Witch Hunter.

Oh no, they're focus-firing on my Gobbo, whats a Black Orc to do? I can't let the Shaman die! The Black orc pops his guard skill on the Shaman, thus reducing all damage the poor little guy takes, then taunts the Engineer to cut out a large percentage of the damage. And then, as the Shaman is trying to run from the Witch Hunter, the Black Orc uses a snare on the WH to help.

There, in three skills, and is already a great hinderance to his enemies and literally a life-saver to his allies. The DPS classes could choose to ignore the Black Orc, but unlike in PvE, if they do that, the Black Orc is still doing his job, which is protecting his allies. If they choose to target the Black Orc, then he's also doing his job. Either way, his allies are being protected, and thats exactly what a tank is there for, to protect his allies.

True that. I think PvP tanks are going to be able to tank by just being a general annoyance to the enemy, by preventing them from doing thier job.

[Gorefang]

Your looking at it way too much from a PvE point of view. The tank dosn't have to be the one soaking up the damage to be protecting their allies. Since we're in the Black Orc forum, let's use one as an example. Lets say you have a party, and in this party is a Black Orc and a Shaman, among others. They run into another party, with a couple of DPS classes, lets just say an Engineer and a Witch Hunter.

Oh no, they're focus-firing on my Gobbo, whats a Black Orc to do? I can't let the Shaman die! The Black orc pops his guard skill on the Shaman, thus reducing all damage the poor little guy takes, then taunts the Engineer to cut out a large percentage of the damage. And then, as the Shaman is trying to run from the Witch Hunter, the Black Orc uses a snare on the WH to help.

There, in three skills, and is already a great hinderance to his enemies and literally a life-saver to his allies. The DPS classes could choose to ignore the Black Orc, but unlike in PvE, if they do that, the Black Orc is still doing his job, which is protecting his allies. If they choose to target the Black Orc, then he's also doing his job. Either way, his allies are being protected, and thats exactly what a tank is there for, to protect his allies.

I don't agree...I personally don't think guard and taunt are gonna last long enough for me to change focus to the tank. Sure they'll help keep your squishee alive for a lil longer but eventually he'll die.

And if your damage is so minor that I can survive you beating on me while i kill your healer then you won't be really helping out much.

Of course this is all speculation and I don't know how these fights will go but I guess we'll see.

[Gemini]

I don't agree...I personally don't think guard and taunt are gonna last long enough for me to change focus to the tank. Sure they'll help keep your squishee alive for a lil longer but eventually he'll die.

And if your damage is so minor that I can survive you beating on me while i kill your healer then you won't be really helping out much.

Of course this is all speculation and I don't know how these fights will go but I guess we'll see.

Well, personally I'm willing to bet taunts and guards are completely sustainable, but thats just speculation. Either way, as I said in that post, it dosn't matter if they focus on you or not, your still protecting your ally. People die in PvP, but if your allies are taking a lot less damage because of you, your doing your job. Also, if your healer is taking half the damage they would be taking without a tank, that means they only have to heal themselves half as much, which means it's much easier for them to survive. If they just stood their with their thumb up their butt of course they're gonna die no matter what you do, but we're assuming the Shaman is not in a coma.

[Thaxon]

True that. I think PvP tanks are going to be able to tank by just being a general annoyance to the enemy, by preventing them from doing thier job.


IMO, the best fun is causing as much chaos and confusion as possible. It also give you a better chance of winning a battle. I really think a well played BO is going to be great at this.

[Kurugi]

I'm just stoked that WAR's devs have figured out how to make taunt useful in PvP (RvR in this case I suppose :p). I played WoW for 2 years and I always heard warriors grumbling about protection being useless in PvP and having to respecc everytime they wanted to do something as simple as a Battleground. I always thought it wasn't too much to ask for taunt to at least force an enemy player to target you, if only to have them retarget the healer/DPS again. In WoW having your target switched for just a split second can seriously mess you up.

I can't wait to see how effective tanks, particularly Black Orcs, will be in RvR :D

[Czechmate]

Don't have a source off hand, but I read that positioning will have alot to do with battle, to the extent of, say you see a shaman blasting people away, but there is a black orc standing between you and him, you cannot simply say LOL I'm gunna shoot through the black orc and kill the shaman LOL. Same goes for melee class, I don't believe a melee class is going to be able to run through a black orc (or any other tank) and chop up the ranged class behind. In theory, a good black orc should be able to keep damage minimal to the players behind him by acting as a wall and damage sponge, even in RvR. If this is really the case, I can't wait to play a Black Orc.


EDIT: To clarify, I think people of the same factions will be able to run/jump/shoot through their allies at enemies, but people on different sides will have to deal with a "world presence" so to speak, implying that hey, there is a giant lump of green and metal infront of me, I've got to take it down to get passed it, thus, creating an important, and creative role for tanks in an rvr setting.

[almightybum]

well hopefully they wont have the same sucky crap system as dark age off camalot it was totaly crap raseing your max on stuff was a stuiped idea and i hope they havnt brought that same rubbish system in2 WAR if anything it should be simple and you cant max your abilitys or max anything it should be what ever stats you got is what you got.

that way you shouldnt have to take half off your gear off to put on rase max by 5 n stuff

let say you put a few points in2 your block and you got 20% chance 2 block and there isnt a max and the renow adds 12% n you should have 32% chance 2 block without needing max gear if they had max system like they did in dark age off camalot then instead off getting the full 12% you will only get 6% and then you will need max gear to incress the max so you get the full benefits i hope they havnt done the same here or hopefully they leart from wow and dark age off camalot what not to do and what you should do

[almightybum]

ooo yeah about the black orc wont be a ignore target well it o depends what you spec from what i have been watching the black orc has annoying abilitys i was watching a black orc do knockback and he was lunching the healers off the cliff and they had a long run to get back to were the fight was. Was funny tho well the other team got angry and the black orc was focused fired on so if they ignore them then it will give your team a big advantage

[Arnalerix]

Hm? Someone mentioned Chosen (on the Chosen forum) at a Gameday somewhere had a shield knock down. We speculated that it was probably a constant across all the tanking classes -- I'm guessing since the Black Orc was doing knock backs we're correct on that account.

As for Renown -- whatever I end up tanking with, Renown'll go to making my shield all that more effective first.

[RandomJules]

I'm rolling black orc to protect my buddies, so that's what I'll be looking to do.

What that actually means is going to depend how it's all balanced. I suspect as a Black Orc I'm actually going to be speccing pretty hard into the CC and other "annoyance" stuff. Nothing frustrates like stuns and snares, and that buys my healer breathing room too.

But if dps is how I get the enemies attention, I'm fine with that. I'll use whatever I find works.

I also want "Out of my way!" as often as possible. Anyone for a quick game of Goblin Golf while we wait for the enemy to run back from their graveyard? :)