So Malekith finally dies...

[Velryn]

... so what do we do then? How exactly do we ask Lileath for forgiveness? Would we become monks of Lileath for life or something? Because I think that would be pretty cool or something along those lines.

[Hrafn]

When does he die?

From an RP POV he wont die in the King Event he will merely be captured and then dragged back to Lothern to be tried and judged on his vile acts against the people of Ulthuan.

Plus you Shadow Warriors will still have a debt to repay as there will still be Dak Elf heretics who need to be brought to justice and will be seeking to free their WitchKing.

[Gemini]

Yeah, we go until all the Dark Elves are dead. Unforantly, they reproduce like rabbits, so it'll take a while.

[Endless]

... so what do we do then? How exactly do we ask Lileath for forgiveness? Would we become monks of Lileath for life or something? Because I think that would be pretty cool or something along those lines.

Malekith doesn't die :P

None of the kings or leaders die, they're just captured, humiliated and severely defouled :D

[Velryn]

*sigh* this was all hypothetical. I just thought it would be interesting to think about what would happen if Malekith really did die.

[Eredhel]

*sigh* this was all hypothetical. I just thought it would be interesting to think about what would happen if Malekith really did die.

I think we would have to all become Monks or something along those lines, dedicating the rest of our lives (and probably those of the next 7 generations) to atone for what we have done.

But the question is, say we kill Malekith, thereby fullfilling our vows, but there are still legions of Druchii out there. Would we lay down our bows then and there or would we fight on until our dark brethren are utterly destroyed?

[Velryn]

I think we would have to all become Monks or something along those lines, dedicating the rest of our lives (and probably those of the next 7 generations) to atone for what we have done.

But the question is, say we kill Malekith, thereby fullfilling our vows, but there are still legions of Druchii out there. Would we lay down our bows then and there or would we fight on until our dark brethren are utterly destroyed?



Hmmm this is an interesting point, but we would not have more or less destroyed them on the way to him? Of course even if you take out Malekith but leave others more will rise because the true nature of the treacherous fiends has always been to overthrow Malekith and become dark lords themselves. So hmmm yes I believe we slay every last druchii, and then become Monks of Lileath worshiping in extremely devout ways for the next several thousand years or so?

[Hrafn]

Nah, I dont think you would become monks or anything like that.

If Malekith and the rest of the druchii were slaughtered by the High Elves the "dishonour"felt by the ShadowWarriors would still be there. Why?

Because it would not erase the fact that your kin betrayed all that the people of Ulthuan stood for and as such you would remain in your role to remind all High Elves of the high price for heresy and you would also keep your eyes open for any signs of others following the path that the Druchii walked.

[Biomechanical]

Malekith's soul was fused to his armor a long time ago when he got horribly burned. I wouldn't be surprised if he died long ago and he is just a living suit of armor.

[Hrafn]

Malekith's soul was fused to his armor a long time ago when he got horribly burned. I wouldn't be surprised if he died long ago and he is just a living suit of armor.

So what happens when I melt that armour down and turn it into a latrine?

[Eredhel]

So what happens when I melt that armour down and turn it into a latrine?

You'll get a cold arse when you sit on it on winter mornings :D

Because it would not erase the fact that your kin betrayed all that the people of Ulthuan stood for and as such you would remain in your role to remind all High Elves of the high price for heresy and you would also keep your eyes open for any signs of others following the path that the Druchii walked.

We wouldn't remain in our role because we do not want to. The mistrust directed towards Shadow Warriors is from two main sources:

1. The fact that Malekith and most of the Druchii were native Nagarthyeans (as you mentioned)

2. The fact that we are vicious, brutal killers that will stop at nothing to get revenge is seen by other High Elves to be a little too close to the Dark Elf mindset for comfort.

By slaying Malekith, we would be eliminating both these sources of mistrust: even though Malekith was from Nagarythe, we still killed him. And even despite our mindset, we still killed Malekith without becoming Druchii and without betraying Ulthuan. However, our methods would still taste foul in the mouths of most High Elves, it is precisely then that we would need to show a great act of piety in devoting ourselves to Lileath to ensure our forgiveness of the goddess. This is what is said about it in the HE army book:

Lileath is the goddess of the moon, a radiant vision of purity. She is the goddess of dreams and fortune commonly revered by seers and mages of Ulthuan. Lileath is also the Elven goddess associated with innocence and forgiveness. It is claimed that she reads the intent written upon the heart of an Elf and thus judges his actions, not by what he does, but by what he seeks to do.

What is less well known is the special relationship that the Shadow Warriors share with Lileath. She alone is their hope for salvation. If the ill-fated warriors of Nagarythe can finally defeat Malekith's followers and fulfill the oath sworn by their ancestors centuries ago, they believe that the Maiden will forgive them of their grievous wrongs they have committed while carrying out their grisly shadow war.

[Constraint]

Malekith doesn't die :P

None of the kings or leaders die, they're just captured, humiliated and severely defouled :D

Which, as I'm sure we're all aware, makes no sense whatsoever ;) Perhaps the first time, yes. But the second, and third, and fourth times? I think that seeing him return to his evil ways time and again, at the expense of many High Elven lives, would push the boundaries of forgiveness a little too far ;)

[Hrafn]

You'll get a cold arse when you sit on it on winter mornings :D



We wouldn't remain in our role because we do not want to. The mistrust directed towards Shadow Warriors is from two main sources:

1. The fact that Malekith and most of the Druchii were native Nagarthyeans (as you mentioned)

2. The fact that we are vicious, brutal killers that will stop at nothing to get revenge is seen by other High Elves to be a little too close to the Dark Elf mindset for comfort.

Ah but you see, I never said that the mistrust would still be there.

Simply that the risk of others falling foul to the heretical path of the Druchii would still be a real risk to the High Elves and that the Shadow Warriors could see it as a new role for them. No longer hunting and killing the sources of their dishonour but instead protecting the High Elves from themslelves. A kind of High Elf Witch-hunter.

By slaying Malekith, we would be eliminating both these sources of mistrust: even though Malekith was from Nagarythe, we still killed him. And even despite our mindset, we still killed Malekith without becoming Druchii and without betraying Ulthuan. However, our methods would still taste foul in the mouths of most High Elves, it is precisely then that we would need to show a great act of piety in devoting ourselves to Lileath to ensure our forgiveness of the goddess.

That is all true, but I suppose the point is, even if Lileath forgave you, would you be able to fogive yourself enough to give up your vigil?

[Gemini]

I don't think we would get forgiveness until all the Druchii are wiped out, not just Malekith. Obviously killing Malekith would bring us much, much closer to forgiveness, but in my mind it wouldn't be enough. But if we managed to wipe Druchii off the face of the world, then yes, I think the Shadow Warriors would settle down and start a new life for themselves. Now, I don't think they'll ever become normal High Elves, but if there are no more Druchii to kill, there is nothing more to avenge.

[Eredhel]

That is all true, but I suppose the point is, even if Lileath forgave you, would you be able to fogive yourself enough to give up your vigil?

Well that's why we'd become very devout monks. Kind of like how women in the middle ages would go to a nunnery when they felt they had committed terrible sins :D

[Velryn]

Well that's why we'd become very devout monks. Kind of like how women in the middle ages would go to a nunnery when they felt they had committed terrible sins :D


Yes, particularly of Lileath. I could see it, the only way to atone for our sins would be to worship Lileath as devout monks for the rest of our lives and probably any generations after us as well, and this would give us "forgiveness"

[CaptainAwesome]

In summary no King dies, they get "defeated". Also it's going to take more than his death to take down the almighty Dark Elf Legion

[Velryn]

In summary no King dies, they get "defeated". Also it's going to take more than his death to take down the almighty Dark Elf Legion


How many times will I have to say this is Hypothetical? Come on look how long I've been following WAR, I wouldn't be so Naive to think this, this was more like a lore situation to think about with fellow Shadow Warriors.

[Eredhel]

Just so we're clear:

hy·po·thet·i·cal

1.assumed by hypothesis; supposed: a hypothetical case.

2.of, pertaining to, involving, or characterized by hypothesis: hypothetical reasoning.

3.given to making hypotheses.

4.Logic. a.(of a proposition) highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence. b.(of a proposition or syllogism) conditional.

–noun 5.a hypothetical situation, instance, etc.: The Secretary of Defense refused to discuss hypotheticals with the reporters.

Please read the thread before posting replies about how the game is going to work. This is a lore discussion thread, not about the game. :)

[Velryn]

Just so we're clear:



Please read the thread before posting replies about how the game is going to work. This is a lore discussion thread, not about the game. :)


Thank you eredhel :D

[lnquisitor]

What an easy question. If all Druchii died, (which we won't) the weakling HE would fall to chaos. Of all the powers in the world only the Druchii have routinely single- handedly defeated Chaos time and again. And I do not mean in some desperate way that we barely survived the brink of destruction. I mean we soundly defeat them and send them running.
So if Malekith dies you all die. But that will not happen because we are the truth path and if the assembled hoards of Chaos can not stand before us what chance to some prancing pansies have?

[Velryn]

What an easy question. If all Druchii died, (which we won't) the weakling HE would fall to chaos. Of all the powers in the world only the Druchii have routinely single- handedly defeated Chaos time and again. And I do not mean in some desperate way that we barely survived the brink of destruction. I mean we soundly defeat them and send them running.
So if Malekith dies you all die. But that will not happen because we are the truth path and if the assembled hoards of Chaos can not stand before us what chance to some prancing pansies have?


Uhm... yeah that's why your allied with Chaos...right?

[lnquisitor]

The Druchii need no allies. Only weaklings in Ulthuan need allies. We use whatever lesser creatures any way we like to achieve the despoilment and slow death of all Asur filth. Ths will be followed by the return of our rightful place of power.

[Velryn]

The Druchii need no allies. Only weaklings in Ulthuan need allies. We use whatever lesser creatures any way we like to achieve the despoilment and slow death of all Asur filth. Ths will be followed by the return of our rightful place of power.



How Highly you talk, yet I'm sure you remember the many other times you've said you where going to do the exact same thing, and got your angry butts kicked back to your lame excuse of an island. Oh and check your spelling :D. But if you want to try, that's perfect with me as well, for I shall take delight in showing you the error of your ways by ending your pitiful life ;)

[YajoojMajooj]

EDITed for content

[Delolith]

Actually Malekith dies...it is fortold even though he is trying to prevent it. It is not a matter of if...it is a matter of when. And in that case SW should atone for a lot of stuff after that....not to their fellow HEs...but to the powers above for all their acts of vengeance etc.

Delolith

[Eredhel]

Actually Malekith dies...it is fortold even though he is trying to prevent it.

Well considering he's over 5000 years old, he's been doing a bang up job so far :D


EDITed - removed inappropriate quote

[Siliddar]

we are the truth path

Just...Just stop. You're making us all look bad.
I'm sorry Shadow Warriors, this one got out of his cage.


As previously stated, in king encounters, the king is not actually killed. Only severely wounded/etc.

The cage guy is correct however, at least in the tabletop sense. Dark Elves do regularly stop huge warbands of chaos from the Chaos Wastes to the north. If we were all to wake up one morning you'd all be up to your knees in chaos warbands. In age of reckoning however, same rules obviously do not apply.

[Bakebehe]

they're just captured, humiliated and severely defouled :D

I volunteer to defoul. You need my expertise!

[lnquisitor]

I'm sorry Shadow Warriors, this one got out of his cage. The cage guy is correct however, at least in the tabletop sense. Dark Elves do regularly stop huge warbands of chaos from the Chaos Wastes to the north. If we were all to wake up one morning you'd all be up to your knees in chaos warbands.


The Chaos Warbands are a minor annoyance. There were 3 other major Chaos invasions during which during which only following the Path of Khaine saved the world from being over run.
First was when Malekith's father drew the Sword of Khaine and created the Path of Khaine.
Next Malekith as commander of the Elven Armies protected Ulthuan twice from destruction. The Druchii follow the true teachings of Aenarion the Defemder as such Malekith is the true Phoenix King.
Of course the HE need allies because their philosophy makes them weak and unable to defend themselves without Dwarfs and Humans, and the Dwarfs are not helping the HE except by proxy through helping the Humans.
By the way Naggaroth is not an island it is a continent roughly the size and shape of N. America The Chaos Wastes would be Canada and S. America is Lustria. Naggarond is the 2nd largest city in Warhammer. It was the Sundering that happened over 5000 years ago and Malekith is far older than that.
Malekith's armor was made not by his followers but Hotek a high priest of Vaul.
Commanded by the High Elves their Army is so weak it can not even defeat the Dwarfs much less Chaos. After the Dwarfs kicked their and killed the 3rd HE king they took the Phoenix King's crown and still have it even today. You think that would have happened if Malekith wore it?
If Malekith was Phoenix King Elves would rule the world and would not be called pansies by anyone in the game or real life.

[Velryn]

As previously stated, in king encounters, the king is not actually killed. Only severely wounded/etc.



hy·po·thet·i·cal

1.assumed by hypothesis; supposed: a hypothetical case.

2.of, pertaining to, involving, or characterized by hypothesis: hypothetical reasoning.

3.given to making hypotheses.

4.Logic. a.(of a proposition) highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence. b.(of a proposition or syllogism) conditional.

–noun 5.a hypothetical situation, instance, etc.: The Secretary of Defense refused to discuss hypotheticals with the reporters.

Now that we have that out of the way, yeah thanks, nice to meet a considerate vicious dire enemy for once.


\
The Chaos Warbands are a minor annoyance. There were 3 other major Chaos invasions during which during which only following the Path of Khaine saved the world from being over run.
First was when Malekith's father drew the Sword of Khaine and created the Path of Khaine.
Next Malekith as commander of the Elven Armies protected Ulthuan twice from destruction. The Druchii follow the true teachings of Aenarion the Defemder as such Malekith is the true Phoenix King.
Of course the HE need allies because their philosophy makes them weak and unable to defend themselves without Dwarfs and Humans, and the Dwarfs are not helping the HE except by proxy through helping the Humans.
By the way Naggaroth is not an island it is a continent roughly the size and shape of N. America The Chaos Wastes would be Canada and S. America is Lustria. Naggarond is the 2nd largest city in Warhammer. It was the Sundering that happened over 5000 years ago and Malekith is far older than that.
Malekith's armor was made not by his followers but Hotek a high priest of Vaul.
Commanded by the High Elves their Army is so weak it can not even defeat the Dwarfs much less Chaos. After the Dwarfs kicked their and killed the 3rd HE king they took the Phoenix King's crown and still have it even today. You think that would have happened if Malekith wore it?
If Malekith was Phoenix King Elves would rule the world and would not be called pansies by anyone in the game or real life.


You're trying waaaaaaay to hard man. So even with your big Naggaroth you still can't take Ulthuan, an island way smaller? And the War of the Beard wouldn't have happened if it weren't for you dark elves and your stupid antics.

[Thor'gor]

There is no redemption for you guys.
Once you crossed that line into the dark path there was no coming back and you knew it.

(btw it's not fare to mention Darth Vader as he was the exception that confirms the rule)

[Slithers]

The Chaos Warbands are a minor annoyance. There were 3 other major Chaos invasions during which during which only following the Path of Khaine saved the world from being over run.
First was when Malekith's father drew the Sword of Khaine and created the Path of Khaine.
Next Malekith as commander of the Elven Armies protected Ulthuan twice from destruction. The Druchii follow the true teachings of Aenarion the Defemder as such Malekith is the true Phoenix King.
Of course the HE need allies because their philosophy makes them weak and unable to defend themselves without Dwarfs and Humans, and the Dwarfs are not helping the HE except by proxy through helping the Humans.
By the way Naggaroth is not an island it is a continent roughly the size and shape of N. America The Chaos Wastes would be Canada and S. America is Lustria. Naggarond is the 2nd largest city in Warhammer. It was the Sundering that happened over 5000 years ago and Malekith is far older than that.
Malekith's armor was made not by his followers but Hotek a high priest of Vaul.
Commanded by the High Elves their Army is so weak it can not even defeat the Dwarfs much less Chaos. After the Dwarfs kicked their and killed the 3rd HE king they took the Phoenix King's crown and still have it even today. You think that would have happened if Malekith wore it?
If Malekith was Phoenix King Elves would rule the world and would not be called pansies by anyone in the game or real life.

Way to set the record straight!!!

Fundamental flaw of the HE IS the fact that they are so hoity toity(sp). They think they are too good to get beat and because if that they get whipped occasionally. That being said I will still play a SW because its just a damn cool Army.

I think if Malekith was slain most the SW would become Monks and the others would remain vagabonds. No answer is good. As for me, I would not give up my bow ever. I would continue to try and rid the world of all Evil tainted by Malekith and his minions!!

[Velryn]

Way to set the record straight!!!

Fundamental flaw of the HE IS the fact that they are so hoity toity(sp). They think they are too good to get beat and because if that they get whipped occasionally. That being said I will still play a SW because its just a damn cool Army.

I think if Malekith was slain most the SW would become Monks and the others would remain vagabonds. No answer is good. As for me, I would not give up my bow ever. I would continue to try and rid the world of all Evil tainted by Malekith and his minions!!


Your not really helping the cause :| well whatever, also it doesn't really make sense to keep fighting since the whole point of the stuff is to ask for forgiveness at the end.

[Eredhel]

As previously stated, in king encounters, the king is not actually killed. Only severely wounded/etc.

And as previously stated many times, we all know that the kings aren't killed and the original post was a hypothetical question. Please we all understand this. Can we please get back to the original topic!

[Velryn]

And as previously stated many times, we all know that the kings aren't killed and the original post was a hypothetical question. Please we all understand this. Can we please get back to the original topic!


Are you the only person that reads entire threads on this forum?

[lnquisitor]

[/quote]You're trying waaaaaaay to hard man. So even with your big Naggaroth you still can't take Ulthuan, an island way smaller? And the War of the Beard wouldn't have happened if it weren't for you dark elves and your stupid antics.[/quote]

Trying way to hard to do what? This is standard Elf lore, it might be disturbing to hear it for the first time but it is just the Elf history. As for taking Ulthuan, well that is exactly what is going to happen after WAR starts. Over and over again.
As for the War of the Beard. Yes the Druchii helped it along but it was 100% started and 100% lost by the HE.
If you don't know how let me explain. The HE king told the Dwarf ambassador. "I don't listen to demands. I grant pleas" Followed by shaving his beard and sending him back to the Dwarf king.
How do we know this? Because the Dwarf king's names was Gotrek.
The Dwarf's kicked the HE so completely that they needed leave the Old World entirely and retreat back to Ulthuan.
The few surviving HE in the Old World hid in the forest and have since stopped being HE and become Wood Elves.
That is your glorious HE history, one of failure, defeat and weakness.
That history will end when the Druchii lay waste to Ulthuan in the Age of Reckoning.

[Velryn]

You're trying waaaaaaay to hard man. So even with your big Naggaroth you still can't take Ulthuan, an island way smaller? And the War of the Beard wouldn't have happened if it weren't for you dark elves and your stupid antics.[/quote]

Trying way to hard to do what? This is standard Elf lore, it might be disturbing to hear it for the first time but it is just the Elf history. As for taking Ulthuan, well that is exactly what is going to happen after WAR starts. Over and over again.
As for the War of the Beard. Yes the Druchii helped it along but it was 100% started and 100% lost by the HE.
If you don't know how let me explain. The HE king told the Dwarf ambassador. "I don't listen to demands. I grant pleas" Followed by shaving his beard and sending him back to the Dwarf king.
How do we know this? Because the Dwarf king's names was Gotrek.
The Dwarf's kicked the HE so completely that they needed leave the Old World entirely and retreat back to Ulthuan.
The few surviving HE in the Old World hid in the forest and have since stopped being HE and become Wood Elves.
That is your glorious HE history, one of failure, defeat and weakness.
That history will end when the Druchii lay waste to Ulthuan in the Age of Reckoning.[/quote]

Oh sure one screw up and you say our history is one of failure, defeat, and weakness. You have plenty of you own smacky, just like every other race. Hmm Let me recall the instance in which your race was created, your leader was Rightful heir, but was still seen as too much of a lunatic to become Phoenix King, and then he goes on making up lies about "Oh your a slaanesh worshiper blah blah blah", then he even TRIES to become king, and gets spit out of the fire. Then you lost the civil war, and got your butts kicked off the island. Like I said, every Single race has faults and yours is no exception.

[YajoojMajooj]

Well considering he's over 5000 years old, he's been doing a bang up job so far :D




Well first you'd have to wait to reach puberty which, judging from the caliber of your post, is going to be quite a while.

lol u took that very seriously sorry if i hurt ur feelings m8 dont be so touchy about ur queen ..... i was just being a typical druchi scum that i am what else do u expect from me after we burn down ur cities and boil ur children and impale your old ones and of course the women ....... :)

[YajoojMajooj]

You're trying waaaaaaay to hard man. So even with your big Naggaroth you still can't take Ulthuan, an island way smaller? And the War of the Beard wouldn't have happened if it weren't for you dark elves and your stupid antics.[/quote]

Trying way to hard to do what? This is standard Elf lore, it might be disturbing to hear it for the first time but it is just the Elf history. As for taking Ulthuan, well that is exactly what is going to happen after WAR starts. Over and over again.
As for the War of the Beard. Yes the Druchii helped it along but it was 100% started and 100% lost by the HE.
If you don't know how let me explain. The HE king told the Dwarf ambassador. "I don't listen to demands. I grant pleas" Followed by shaving his beard and sending him back to the Dwarf king.
How do we know this? Because the Dwarf king's names was Gotrek.
The Dwarf's kicked the HE so completely that they needed leave the Old World entirely and retreat back to Ulthuan.
The few surviving HE in the Old World hid in the forest and have since stopped being HE and become Wood Elves.
That is your glorious HE history, one of failure, defeat and weakness.
That history will end when the Druchii lay waste to Ulthuan in the Age of Reckoning.[/quote]

amen to the last line

[Aeviryn]

In the event Malekith died, I imagine his mother Morathi would assume command.

[lnquisitor]

****************************************
Oh sure one screw up and you say our history is one of failure, defeat, and weakness. You have plenty of you own smacky, just like every other race. Hmm Let me recall the instance in which your race was created, your leader was Rightful heir, but was still seen as too much of a lunatic to become Phoenix King, and then he goes on making up lies about "Oh your a slaanesh worshiper blah blah blah", then he even TRIES to become king, and gets spit out of the fire. Then you lost the civil war, and got your butts kicked off the island. Like I said, every Single race has faults and yours is no exception.
******************************************

One mistake? High Elves have 2 failed wars against Naggaroth. The 2nd of which ended with your 7th King committing suicide because he almost lost Ulthuan in the process.
As for losing the civil war you will learn how wrong you are in a few months when Ulthuan is finally sacked and put to the torch.
Or will the Druchii still have lost when your capital is burning and Finubar is on display in a cage aboard the Fist of Malekith?
It is an ongoing debate to see who will be the first to fall ever in WAR Dwarfs or High Elves. First or second either way Ulthuan is going down in flames soon.

[Delolith]

It is an ongoing debate to see who will be the first to fall ever in WAR Dwarfs or High Elves. First or second either way Ulthuan is going down in flames soon.

Maybe you are in for a big surprise on that one....in a few months time as you say;) At least you base your assumptions on pure facts! Because we all know that some random funny poll made by a random person actually depicts the truth of what is "going" to happen many months after release. Mainly cause from "other" polls as you will see even in these boards thare are well known for being Destruction supporting, High Elves have higher population than Dark Elves. So imagine that on release. Ahh and if you are one of those people that believes that numbers do not play big role... you are in for another surprise. I just hope that the population imbalance won't be that bad so we can actually have enjoyable and constructive fights.

Delolith

[Velryn]

Maybe you are in for a big surprise on that one....in a few months time as you say;) At least you base your assumptions on pure facts! Because we all know that some random funny poll made by a random person actually depicts the truth of what is "going" to happen many months after release. Mainly cause from "other" polls as you will see even in these boards thare are well known for being Destruction supporting, High Elves have higher population than Dark Elves. So imagine that on release. Ahh and if you are one of those people that believes that numbers do not play big role... you are in for another surprise. I just hope that the population imbalance won't be that bad so we can actually have enjoyable and constructive fights.

Yeah really, and also he's acting as if he knows what is going to happen in the Age of Reckoning, when really that's more of an ingame thing. There will be servers where Finubar is captured, and servers where Malekith is captured, so it's stupid to say you will win in the Age of Reckoning.

[Delolith]

Yeah really, and also he's acting as if he knows what is going to happen in the Age of Reckoning, when really that's more of an ingame thing. There will be servers where Finubar is captured, and servers where Malekith is captured, so it's stupid to say you will win in the Age of Reckoning.

Actually I tried to give it in a bit sarcastic way...which rather goes will with my idiom...but you put it in a straightforward manner...ahh well;) I am pretty sure he gets the point.

Delolith

[Velryn]

Actually I tried to give it in a bit sarcastic way...which rather goes will with my idiom...but you put it in a straightforward manner...ahh well;) I am pretty sure he gets the point.

Delolith


Some ones gotta dumb it down for em' :wink:

[mister chief]

i would think the shadow warriors would find another shadow warrior of the other sehx and forgive each other and settle down some monks and other stuff though:confused:

[lnquisitor]

Maybe you are in for a big surprise on that one....in a few months time as you say;) At least you base your assumptions on pure facts!
It is not an assumption or a poll, hell it is not even on this website. All it is is and opinion. Personally I put my money on Dwarfs being the first to fall, other people said HE. It just has to do with the fact that people want to see High Elves die. Even people on the side of Order would not be upset to see HE die. Due to this general feeling some people believe HE will be the first to fall. I still think it will be Dwarfs though.

[Velryn]

It is not an assumption or a poll, hell it is not even on this website. All it is is and opinion. Personally I put my money on Dwarfs being the first to fall, other people said HE. It just has to do with the fact that people want to see High Elves die. Even people on the side of Order would not be upset to see HE die. Due to this general feeling some people believe HE will be the first to fall. I still think it will be Dwarfs though.


No wonder we Shadow Elves hate you so much! You're meanies!!!!! I kill you and pike you to cliff now :-)!

[Delolith]

It is not an assumption or a poll, hell it is not even on this website. All it is is and opinion. Personally I put my money on Dwarfs being the first to fall, other people said HE. It just has to do with the fact that people want to see High Elves die. Even people on the side of Order would not be upset to see HE die. Due to this general feeling some people believe HE will be the first to fall. I still think it will be Dwarfs though.

Ohhh right....I didn't know that...that must explains everything. It is good that at least you told me...so I can go bet too against high elves...it is good to know the outcome beforehand....it can earn you free money! We all know that knowledge is power /thumbsup.

On a more serious note....HE will pretty much have a very healthy population...so they won't need the participation of other races in order to defend their capital. So if Order races don't mind to see HE fall...that is ok with me. I will be there with about as much as you will have on your side. Guess we will see the outcome.

Delolith

[Velryn]

Ohhh right....I didn't know that...that must explains everything. It is good that at least you told me...so I can go bet too against high elves...it is good to know the outcome beforehand....it can earn you free money! We all know that knowledge is power /thumbsup.

On a more serious note....HE will pretty much have a very healthy population...so they won't need the participation of other races in order to defend their capital. So if Order races don't mind to see HE fall...that is ok with me. I will be there with about as much as you will have on your side. Guess we will see the outcome.

Delolith


I salute you Delolith, and I don't do that to many people.

[Delolith]

I salute you Delolith, and I don't do that to many people.

/bow Velryn

You will see that some of us Swordmasters have a touch of sarcasm in us. But I thank you for your kind words dear Naggaryth cousin.

Delolith

[ChosenOne]

It is not an assumption or a poll, hell it is not even on this website. All it is is and opinion. Personally I put my money on Dwarfs being the first to fall, other people said HE. It just has to do with the fact that people want to see High Elves die. Even people on the side of Order would not be upset to see HE die. Due to this general feeling some people believe HE will be the first to fall. I still think it will be Dwarfs though.

People say that now because they have no tie in to the world, because there is no cost to the High Elves falling for them. That wont be the case when the game comes out.

If the High Elf city falls then it negatively affects the empire and dwarf players because you wont just see dark elf players getting "phat loot" from the city siege but all destruction players. So then you see a shift in thought patterns that are not based on "We think the High Elves look like pansies, we hate elves completely, we dont care if they fall or not" to "Damn, we may not like them but we cant let them fall. It will hurt us as well"

So you will have reluctant defenders but defenders none the less. I am pretty sure any forward thinking folks will see the rationality in this. You have your WoW way of thinking which is ego centric and all about my loot, my gear, and my thoughts. Then you have your Daoc way of thinking which is more realm oriented and guild oriented and you begin to naturally think about what is best for your realm, and your guild as well as yourself. When that happens you have people no longer thinking "I think the High Elves look stupid, I am not going to defend them".

[Velryn]

People say that now because they have no tie in to the world, because there is no cost to the High Elves falling for them. That wont be the case when the game comes out.

If the High Elf city falls then it negatively affects the empire and dwarf players because you wont just see dark elf players getting "phat loot" from the city siege but all destruction players. So then you see a shift in thought patterns that are not based on "We think the High Elves look like pansies, we hate elves completely, we dont care if they fall or not" to "Damn, we may not like them but we cant let them fall. It will hurt us as well"

So you will have reluctant defenders but defenders none the less. I am pretty sure any forward thinking folks will see the rationality in this. You have your WoW way of thinking which is ego centric and all about my loot, my gear, and my thoughts. Then you have your Daoc way of thinking which is more realm oriented and guild oriented and you begin to naturally think about what is best for your realm, and your guild as well as yourself. When that happens you have people no longer thinking "I think the High Elves look stupid, I am not going to defend them".

Thank you chosenone, if you roll on a faction, you better be damned well prepared to fight with all the races on the faction or you're in for a rude awakening.

[Delolith]

Actually I think we all see it a bit shallow as well. Remember what happened to DAOC in the case of sieges etc. The thing is...in WAR you have 2 factions...they are not high elves empire...they are Order vs Destruction. And there will be many non purist guilds that will be strong and will have some serious numbers of players. That means that if a capital is under attack...a lot of guilds will run there to protect it...has nothing to do with the race anymore. It doesn't even have to do with the fact that your opponents will gain better loot in general...or in a much smaller extent;)

Delolith

[murkrow]

Ulthuan will almost certainly be one of the first to fall.

We suffer from the fact that more people are going to be playing HE than DE, but not more people who are good at MMOs, hardcore PVPers tend to gravitate towards the meaner races, and we're going to end up with a whole lot of confidenceless archmages who can't decide when to dps and when to heal.


Historically the Asur have a rather garbage track record when it comes to military campaigns, they are not a people dedicated to war, and therefore we have made several poor decisions along the way.

To claim that the Druuchi follow the true path of Aenarion (while I admire your bravado) is truly a stretch and an insult to his ideal. The path of Khaine was first traveled by Aenarion, that is true, but he did it unwillingly and out of necessity. The Druuchi follow the path that Aenarion took in desperation in order to protect the purity of his people, but they follow it selfishly. The Asur do not follow the path of Khaine, which is destructive and self indulgent, they follow the path of Aenarion which is self sacrificing and loyal.

The Asur have lost many wars but have never lost Ulthuan, just as Aenarion drew the sword of Khaine unwillingly but righteously, so will the Asur turn to the way of war to survive the Age of Reckoning.

I'm gonna bust my trying to get the archmages on my server to not suck... please let it work.

[Velryn]

Ulthuan will almost certainly be one of the first to fall.

We suffer from the fact that more people are going to be playing HE than DE, but not more people who are good at MMOs, hardcore PVPers tend to gravitate towards the meaner races, and we're going to end up with a whole lot of confidenceless archmages who can't decide when to dps and when to heal.


Historically the Asur have a rather garbage track record when it comes to military campaigns, they are not a people dedicated to war, and therefore we have made several poor decisions along the way.

To claim that the Druuchi follow the true path of Aenarion (while I admire your bravado) is truly a stretch and an insult to his ideal. The path of Khaine was first traveled by Aenarion, that is true, but he did it unwillingly and out of necessity. The Druuchi follow the path that Aenarion took in desperation in order to protect the purity of his people, but they follow it selfishly. The Asur do not follow the path of Khaine, which is destructive and self indulgent, they follow the path of Aenarion which is self sacrificing and loyal.

The Asur have lost many wars but have never lost Ulthuan, just as Aenarion drew the sword of Khaine unwillingly but righteously, so will the Asur turn to the way of war to survive the Age of Reckoning.

I'm gonna bust my trying to get the archmages on my server to not suck... please let it work.


Heh, I'm sure you'll do a great job stopping the Legomyeggolaszez, the dark elves have their own Drizzzzzzzzztz'zt people to deal with. Oh and thanks for signing up for the Forlorn Sword forums :D

[murkrow]

I'm gonna be pretty adamant about it

no longer will people be able to shoo me away with "Let me play the game my way"

if playing the game your way is going to cost us Lothern... you better save a space on your ignore list for me.

[lnquisitor]

To claim that the Druuchi follow the true path of Aenarion (while I admire your bravado) is truly a stretch and an insult to his ideal. The path of Khaine was first traveled by Aenarion, that is true, but he did it unwillingly and out of necessity. The Druuchi follow the path that Aenarion took in desperation in order to protect the purity of his people, but they follow it selfishly. The Asur do not follow the path of Khaine, which is destructive and self indulgent, they follow the path of Aenarion which is self sacrificing and loyal.
Nowhere does it say Aenarion drew the sword of Khaine out of desperation he did it because he wanted to take revenge for the death of his first wife. Nothing desperate about that he choose to follow the path of Khaine because he wanted to.
However, Aenarion very specifically and repeatedly told Caledor he did NOT want the vortex created. Caledor disobeyed and did it any way and was going to fail until Aenarion showed up and had to sacrifice himself to save him.
To sum up.
First Aenarion choses the path of Khaine and vengeance by choice.
Second never supported the vortex and thinks it is a bad idea.

So now we have 2 groups one side following the path of Khaine and Aenarion.
The other side following Caledor and the vortex.
So yes the Druchii can say they follow the true path of Aenarion by following the path of Khaine and not supporting the vortex or Caledor's ideas which Aenarion never lived by or agreed with.

[Velryn]

Nowhere does it say Aenarion drew the sword of Khaine out of desperation he did it because he wanted to take revenge for the death of his first wife. Nothing desperate about that he choose to follow the path of Khaine because he wanted to.
However, Aenarion very specifically and repeatedly told Caledor he did NOT want the vortex created. Caledor disobeyed and did it any way and was going to fail until Aenarion showed up and had to sacrifice himself to save him.
To sum up.
First Aenarion choses the path of Khaine and vengeance by choice.
Second never supported the vortex and thinks it is a bad idea.

So now we have 2 groups one side following the path of Khaine and Aenarion.
The other side following Caledor and the vortex.
So yes the Druchii can say they follow the true path of Aenarion by following the path of Khaine and not supporting the vortex or Caledor's ideas which Aenarion never lived by or agreed with.



Man, you take this stuff too seriously. What I love about the elf lore is that it always leaves 2 possibilities, up for debate, like real life, and biases can be created. Like a High Elf bias says Aenarion drew the sword out of desperation, a Dark Elf says he drew it out of revenge, but it never really tells you EXACTLY what happened. The High Elf bias is that Malekith was rejected by the flame of Asuryan, Dark Elf bias says that the High Elf nobles messed with it because they didn't like Malekith. Know one is really sure what happened but it gives realistic races.

[murkrow]

You ignore the early days of Aenarion, the Golden Age. Aenarion's dream was never one of war and conquest, he simply wanted Ulthuan to be cleansed of the daemonic and for the children of Asuryan to be free and strong.

Aenarion only drew the sword of Khaine after the peace he had in life had been destroyed, whether or not it was an act of desperation it was the act of a damned and desperate man. It is understood that once he had drawn the sword, Khaine sought to tempt him from the path of Asuryan he has followed until that point of this life. It is also understandable that as the greatest elf to ever life, if Aenarion had succumbed to the path of Khaine he would have easily survived his encounter with the greater daemons.
We can see from the fact that he died in his battle at the vortex that Aenarion chose to forsake the path of Khaine and remain true to his original patron, Asuryan.

Whether or not Aenarion felt the vortex was a good idea, he still gave his life to have it formed.

Is the stuff about him not wanting the vortex formed in defenders of ulthuan?

[lnquisitor]

Man, you take this stuff too seriously. What I love about the elf lore is that it always leaves 2 possibilities, up for debate, like real life, and biases can be created. Like a High Elf bias says Aenarion drew the sword out of desperation, a Dark Elf says he drew it out of revenge, but it never really tells you EXACTLY what happened. The High Elf bias is that Malekith was rejected by the flame of Asuryan, Dark Elf bias says that the High Elf nobles messed with it because they didn't like Malekith. Know one is really sure what happened but it gives realistic races.

Actually no it is not a Dark Elf idea because the story comes from the High elf books.
When Aenarion heard about the death of his first wife he headed straight for the sword, ignoring all the warnings and pleas not to from Caledor and others, he ignored them drew the sword and became an avatar of Khaine. There was no desperation, it was a pure act of revenge. This comes from High Elf lore.

[Velryn]

Actually no it is not a Dark Elf idea because the story comes from the High elf books.
When Aenarion heard about the death of his first wife he headed straight for the sword, ignoring all the warnings and pleas not to from Caledor and others, he ignored them drew the sword and became an avatar of Khaine. There was no desperation, it was a pure act of revenge. This comes from High Elf lore.


You ignored the malekith part. Either way it's not such a big deal, I don't really care, I just want to fight some druchii ;)

[murkrow]

Actually no it is not a Dark Elf idea because the story comes from the High elf books.
When Aenarion heard about the death of his first wife he headed straight for the sword, ignoring all the warnings and pleas not to from Caledor and others, he ignored them drew the sword and became an avatar of Khaine. There was no desperation, it was a pure act of revenge. This comes from High Elf lore.

where's this from exactly?

[Hrafn]

Ulthuan will almost certainly be one of the first to fall.

We suffer from the fact that more people are going to be playing HE than DE, but not more people who are good at MMOs, hardcore PVPers tend to gravitate towards the meaner races, and we're going to end up with a whole lot of confidenceless archmages who can't decide when to dps and when to heal.


have to say that I disagree with you in this Murk.

Ulthuan may well be the first to fall (but not without me taking down a legion of Druchii first), but it wont be because we have the fluffy players.

As far as I can see it, Destruction will be WAR's equivalent to WoW's Alliance not Horde. Destruction have the more "cooler" classes and races due to all the spikes (Black Guards and Chosen) , greenskin and "Blood for the Blood God!" etc.

That will draw in the bigger numbers whereas the High Elves will be played by people who want to play High Elves and play them well. (Same goes with the dwarves). The players playing High Elves and dwarves will be dedicated players and race specific fans who will focus on tactics and skill to overcome the vast hordes or Destruction.

So I reckon there will be more DE than HE, but in the end it is the HE blades that will be stained with blood and the DE who will be acting as fertiliser.

[murkrow]

have to say that I disagree with you in this Murk.

Ulthuan may well be the first to fall (but not without me taking down a legion of Druchii first), but it wont be because we have the fluffy players.

As far as I can see it, Destruction will be WAR's equivalent to WoW's Alliance not Horde. Destruction have the more "cooler" classes and races due to all the spikes (Black Guards and Chosen) , greenskin and "Blood for the Blood God!" etc.

That will draw in the bigger numbers whereas the High Elves will be played by people who want to play High Elves and play them well. (Same goes with the dwarves). The players playing High Elves and dwarves will be dedicated players and race specific fans who will focus on tactics and skill to overcome the vast hordes or Destruction.

So I reckon there will be more DE than HE, but in the end it is the HE blades that will be stained with blood and the DE who will be acting as fertiliser.

fingers crossed

you can count on my healing, cross my heart you'll rarely die.

[lnquisitor]

where's this from exactly?

Can't reprint army books and rule books online that would get me an infraction.
So you can pull out your books, if you own any, or do a quick google on Aenarion and Astarielle.
Personally I don't really care too much about the lore. I mean I know it after years and years of going to Grand Tournaments and Game Days where it is almost a requirement to debate such things for days and days on end.
Truth be told I am far more interested in the chance to make history in the Age of Reckoning which will become an official part of the lore just like the Storm of Chaos did.
For my part I am going to focus on becoming the ultimate Asur killing machine not because I like Dark Elves but because I hate High Elves they are the most annoying army to play against in every GW game FB, 40k, BFG even BB. It is fun to know I can take part in destroying them. At least until Lizardmen come out then I can play my real army of choice and hopefully fight my real enemy of choice the Skaven.
To be fair I must say that I do find Wood elves slightly more annoying in WHFB than High Elves but that is only because of the Glade Guard. Barring that High elf/Eldar are these most annoying people in in the games a sentiment shared by many.

[murkrow]

I don't think naming a book is an infraction.

I was pretty sure people thought dark elves were the most annoying WFB army.

anyway I hope you play on the same server as us, it would be nice to know that theres a black guard out there who wants to kill high elves as much as I want to kill dark elves.

[lnquisitor]

I don't think naming a book is an infraction.


OK I will repeat it again, the rule books and the army books.

[Eldalion]

Please do forgive me for this thread necromancy...but when I saw this, I just couldn't resist... >.>

The Druchii need no allies. Only weaklings in Ulthuan need allies. We use whatever lesser creatures any way we like to achieve the despoilment and slow death of all Asur filth. Ths will be followed by the return of our rightful place of power.

Two words.

Finuval Plain.

[lnquisitor]

Please do forgive me for this thread necromancy...but when I saw this, I just couldn't resist... >.>



Two words.

Finuval Plain.

You'll have to use a few more words than that.

[Eldalion]

Alright then, I will. /sagenod

Big battle on Ulthuan when a combined force of Dark Elves and Chaos forces were routed from the field and the Witch King was forced to throw himself into the Realm of Chaos to avoid being killed by Teclis. Oh, and his personal champion was slain in single combat with Tyrion as well...and the High Elves managed that victory on their own without any aid from outside groups.

Does kinda say something, doesn't it? ;)

[lnquisitor]

Alright then, I will. /sagenod

Big battle on Ulthuan when a combined force of Dark Elves and Chaos forces were routed from the field and the Witch King was forced to throw himself into the Realm of Chaos to avoid being killed by Teclis. Oh, and his personal champion was slain in single combat with Tyrion as well...and the High Elves managed that victory on their own without any aid from outside groups.

Does kinda say something, doesn't it? ;)
i would say that that was a single battle not the entire war and if you think the HE fought the entire invasion of DE and Chaos alone you should read it again.

[Eldalion]

As you suggested, I read the account of the battle again. Nowhere does it make any mention of anything other than High Elves opposing Malekith and his host of Dark Elves and Chaos.

And yes, following that battle, the rest of the war was won by the High Elves, again, without any outside help. Just read that part too.

Would you like for me to quote the entire account?

[Delolith]

i would say that that was a single battle not the entire war and if you think the HE fought the entire invasion of DE and Chaos alone you should read it again.

So when HEs win it is just a single battle...but when DEs win it is a major victory (not that there are any victorious big scale invasions) to the plans of Malekith to retake Ulthuan. I think you should give credit where it is due to and vice versa.

Delolith

[Eldalion]

Let us not forget Eltharion's successful attack on Naggaroth where he and his troops were able to run riot in Naggarond itself, torching and killing before falling back with rather minimal losses.

[Selendor]

Let us not forget Eltharion's successful attack on Naggaroth where he and his troops were able to run riot in Naggarond itself, torching and killing before falling back with rather minimal losses.

Oh, you mean like what Dark Elf Corsairs do on a monthly basis...

[Veilside]

You ignore the early days of Aenarion, the Golden Age. Aenarion's dream was never one of war and conquest, he simply wanted Ulthuan to be cleansed of the daemonic and for the children of Asuryan to be free and strong.

Aenarion only drew the sword of Khaine after the peace he had in life had been destroyed, whether or not it was an act of desperation it was the act of a damned and desperate man. It is understood that once he had drawn the sword, Khaine sought to tempt him from the path of Asuryan he has followed until that point of this life. It is also understandable that as the greatest elf to ever life, if Aenarion had succumbed to the path of Khaine he would have easily survived his encounter with the greater daemons.
We can see from the fact that he died in his battle at the vortex that Aenarion chose to forsake the path of Khaine and remain true to his original patron, Asuryan.

Whether or not Aenarion felt the vortex was a good idea, he still gave his life to have it formed.

Is the stuff about him not wanting the vortex formed in defenders of ulthuan?

Interesting quote, from Liber Chaotica.

It was Aenarion, called The Defender, who first took this a step further by allowing the most powerful of the Asur's newly manifested gods, Asuryan, to use him as a vessel for His power. In a sense, Aenarion became a kind of Chaos Champion, although because his god was (amongst other things) a manifestation of Asur dignity, culture and self-belief, he fought against the forces of Chaos Unbounded rather than with them. Yet despite his success, Aenarion went too far, and was consumed by the drives that made up the deity that possessed him.

It did not matter that Asuryan personified all that was good and beautiful about the Asur as a race, He was still a god, and, just as with the Gods of Chaos and their Champions, eventually His purpose subsumed the will of His vessel. In time, Aenarion was consumed by the feelings of duty towards his people, taking all their sorrows onto himself, and, with personal tragedy stacking atop racial murder, he eventually walked the path to oblivion. He drew the sword of Khaine, opening himself up to becoming a vessel for the war-god's power and will as well as Asuryan's. No mortal frame, however mighty, was designed to contain the conflicted spirits of two opposing deities. Not even Aenarion.

[Eldalion]

Oh, you mean like what Dark Elf Corsairs do on a monthly basis...

You mean to tell me that the Corsairs regularly fight their way past the Glittering Tower Lighthouse and the Emerald Gate on a monthly basis to pillage Lothern? ;)

[Korta Galathil]

Alright lnquisitor, why must you say look in the "rulebooks and army books", there have been seven editions, so that's in theory 14 books just on rule books and high Elf army books, if you go off the most up to date book your points are not so solid. out of desperation Aenarion walked into the flame of Asuryan. Years later he swore to kill every chaos creature in the world.. Not what the Dark elves do. but yes it was out of fury.
On the creation of the Vortex, nowhere in the book does he say he objected to the Vortex being created Aenarion was left with no choice. HE assembled his forces and moved to defend ht mages on the Isle of the Dead. Not trying to stop the vortex. After defeating the Four Greater daemons trying to stop the Vortex, he flew back to the shrine of Khaine and placed the sword back into the Alter. HE gave up the path of Khaine as you put it. Something Dark Elves do not do.
The quotes are from the High Elf Army book, pages 16-18.

Erm what else. Malekith's greed was what caused most of the problems the High Elves have.

You saying that Caledor committed suicide because of superior Druchii power was untrue. Again in the High Elf army book page 22, titled "Caledor's fall" : A storm caused his ship to be seperated from the rest of the fleet, so that's one High elf ship. Attacked by raiders, the ship was set alight then because of the sheer amount of druchii he could not win and so jumped into the sea...

That's all I can be bothered to argue with. Erm if you want to argue please quote page and book. Games Workshop has never objected, so long as you don't say I wrote all of this. Erm, the stuff I said above is CANON, written by GW. If it has not been written by GW it is not canon, the most recent addition of the book is the most correct. Erm, now I await the rants saying how the quotes from the army book are wrong. :-P

[Eldalion]

If you look at the bottom of page 16, there's a paragraph there that says Aenarion opposed the creation of the vortex.

[Korta Galathil]

OH yer, missed that. Well within the next page he changed his mind....:o

[Eldalion]

Well, he never really changed his mind on the matter, he just couldn't bear to let his good friend get killed by those Greater Daemons. Sort of a "Oh bloody hell, I told you not to do this, now you're doing it anyway and I have to kill those daemons before they kill you......idiot."

[Korta Galathil]

Okays, That makes sense. But he helped anyhow:-P