What would it take for the ToK to be a success, according to you?

[Dolash]

The Tome of Knowledge is a neat idea, something I haven't seen much of in MMOs, but what would it take for you to decide the feature was well-implemented?

After all, it seems there's a lot of elements that make up the tome - enemy kill trackers, information on the game world, titles, notes, records, history, quest log stuff, all fun little additions that flesh out the game experience. It probably involves a lot of work to produce, considering all the entries that need to be written, all the triggers that need to be set for them, all the programming to keep track of variou stats, and it's possible the challenge might not be met in parts. Some bits might be cut, or underdeveloped, or simply not meet your own personal standards for completion.

So, what will it take for you? What are non-negotiable for you to consider the tome a success? What are just pleasent additions? What are willing compromises or omissions you can accept?

[Chrismorris]

Things you can brag about that people can see when they just walk past you.

Things like the titles and ranks you can get from it will be the side ill go for the most.

[Scratch]

Ease of use.
Having cool titles is nothing if it's difficult to navigate to get them.

[Oath]

The Tome of Knowledge is already a success in my heart. <3

But to elaborate a bit... if I find myself spending a decent amount of my playtime reading recently added stories, looking for the next unlock, checking up on stats, etc... well then I would say job well done.

Something tells me that there are quite a few sticker book fans hiding amongst us. :p

[Baradun]

Two words - WORLD PLUNGERS! :D

[Oath]

Of note: Paul Barnett mentioned during the NY Comic Con (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YqP73Qp_Cc&feature=related) that a nonbeliever, after being subjected to the Tome of Knowledge, apologized afterwards saying that they had now become emotionally attached to it. :D


The analogy starts at 1:30.

[Chasington]

Cool maps
Background lore
Unlockables

And as of now they have those in. I love the ToK and think it is one awesome addition to the game.

[itwasstinky]

for me it'd have to be unexpected rewards.
for it just to catch me off guard on something i do- and reward me for it
*you just died for the 1000th time, have this death emote*

[LatukiJoe]

1) Endlessness. So much content in it (I mean, its easy to create) that you feel like you'll never fill it all in.

2) Alt-Spillover. In that, to complete the Tome, you'd need several alts, or something.

3) Small, but Worthy Rewards. Like unlocked emotes, titles, lore, and other secrets.

[Norfrit]

Not 80% of unlocks being "kill lots of mobs only because to get reward" like it was in Lotro - titles/awards were fine but way to get them sucked. Also, if I kill some wolves in one tier, and same wolves deeper in that they both should track to one counter, not two seperate.

[Sledge]

Yeah, I like the if there is a "Kill 1,000 Wolves" unlockable I would hope they just do wolves in general instead of say, "Kill 1,000 Gray Wolves" and "Kill 1,000 Ravenous Rainbow Wolves" or any other variation of colors you can think of.

[Skaar]

There are many things I like about the Tome of Knowledge and so I could list a bunch to describe how it could be near perfect, however the question is what would it take for it to be a success for me.

All I would need is to find out the backstory, lore if you will, of everything I find interesting enough to check out.

I don't like reading, so I wouldn't go through everything, but for example when I enter a new area, I would like to see what the story behind it is. Another example would me finding something, like a statue for example, I would like to know what it's about. Basically anything that makes me go "huh, I wonder what this is?".

Also, some monsters would qualify as something I want to know about, perhaps even most if not all of them. For example, what in the world (of Warhammer. Online. Craft.) is a Squig? And for those who noticed, yes, that was a Penny Arcade joke.

I know nothing about Warhammer other than what I've read about while following the development of the game and I would like to know the lore to get more out of the game eventually.

[Kalios]

Titles, and little lore bits from either walking through/past some famous location, or killing certain creatures.

[Vejuz]

1) Be more than a quest tracker. Because honestly, I never played LOtRo so anything above this is an improvement in my eyes.

2) Lore in Tome is representative of the overall feel and lore of Warhammer. I'm not too familar with the Warhammer universe, but I wasn't familiar with Warcraft's either. Living and learning the lore is great fun.

3) This, and beyond, strays into "this makes it MORE of a success" but: RvR stats. Both long term and short term. The more different stats tracked, and the more ways to sort and display them, the better.

4) "Secrets". Obscure unlocks are fun. Like the plungers of the world! :D

5) Boss lore. So when I encounter a boss/ kill a boss, I get an unlock with a story about him/her/it basically telling the story of that particular boss.

EDIT: Missing word, added in

[Llamazerker]

i'd be happy if it just unlocked a few things and held my stats. anything else would just be a plus. my expectations are low(out of interest) so im ready to be suprised if it turns out to be great.

[Saija Rii]

OMG ChrisMorris... You're screwing this game over now? Isn't it allready enough that about the entire runetotem server on WoW despises you? :confused: Meh, it's only a matter of time before people in warhammer find out what a leech you are. Really, stick to solo-gaming, you sicko..

Umm...

What was the point of that post? To alienate Chris...?

[Chrismorris]

*EDITED for content*

[CaptainAwesome]

An endless amount of unlocks and a gallery including lore info on the high level armor sets and powerful weapons that you may encounter a long your journey.

My 2 Awesomes

[Archangelus]

Titles... especially a survivor title for levelling up without dying. Not something ridiculous like LOTRO (first 30 lvls), but a different title every 10 levels up to the top.

[Ho Theos]

I'd like to add that so far, I've heard NOTHING that says the ToK is worthless.
Titles, Lore, Info, Game plot advancement, kill counts, even your own lil Book of Grudges as I've heard that it will record how many times you've killed certain people. How creme-worthy is that!

[Æntertainment]

Of note: Paul Barnett mentioned during the NY Comic Con (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YqP73Qp_Cc&feature=related) that a nonbeliever, after being subjected to the Tome of Knowledge, apologized afterwards saying that they had now become emotionally attached to it. :D


The analogy starts at 1:30.

to be fair paul could convince anyone, anywhere, that anything is the greatest and coolest idea ever thought of, and have that person begin to worship said thing.

[Ho Theos]

Aye, agreed Ent. Paul could convince an ant it's an anteater.

[Tyrhem]

I think the ToK will be a great succes :) I already like the idea. I will read everylast letter of the story and will try to unlock everything ^^

@Ho Theos
True True, Paul can convince everybody :D

[Jackalofdeath]

Titles... especially a survivor title for levelling up without dying. Not something ridiculous like LOTRO (first 30 lvls), but a different title every 10 levels up to the top.

Was first 20 levels. and yeah it was a ----- to accomplish, but i enjoyed the challenge picking the hardest class to solo with and soloing it to 20 without dying. I had to delete my char's many times over though lol.

[Rhavez]

Ease of use.
Having cool titles is nothing if it's difficult to navigate to get them.


and pages mappable to hotkeys \o/

[Slaanax]

He could sell a Ketchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves!

Its gotta be fun to look through at the end of the day, and maybe the ability to show off your feats to others, also have they made mention of a Guild ToK to say how many times your guild did this feat and such.

[Lifeblood]

1. Have some sort of search feature for finding stories or accomplishments.

2. Have really funny titles obtainable for doing crazy things without even trying.

Example: You just unlocked to the title of Annoying as Crap for having 100 players ignore you in game. Or something maybe not quite that bad.

3. Not ever needing the internet to find an obscure item because the Tome really does possess all the info you need to know.

[Eske Kjaer]

I hope it provides info on all of the items you pick up from your gathering abilities. Maybe some tips and hints on how to best combine items.

[DunRaven]

It's a great idea and i'm hoping to see it developed and expanded as time goes on etc. ;)

To begin with i'd smile to see..

1) The special unlocks of all kinds (the suggestion to have a new death emote after a certain number of deaths, or a battlecry after a certain number of kills etc.. etc..) so much can be done here in terms of quest unlocks, location unlocks (Lairs etc), tactics, titles, etc etc etc.. nothing game breaking but the fun comes from those unexpected, hidden extras we find as we play and fewer people get :D Hurrahh!

2) Info. & Lore on the game world - sounds like this is a great way to add the lore for those who love reading it or add extra details or depth or hidden 'secrets' for those who take the time or hints for those who need them ;)

3) Records - a way to see and summarise our various exploits and actions throughout the game (i.e. Monster & enemy kills, Titles, Quests completed, Faction affiliations perhaps etc etc..)

4) All the other cool stuff we hear and hope for in this wonderful invention ;)

[Stiltzkin]

Have they made mention of a Guild ToK to say how many times your guild did this feat and such.

Great idea! I'm a fan. send in a petition, I'll sign it. :D

[Elge]

As I see it now, the Tome of Knowledge is already a success and doesn't really need much else to convince me of that.

My OCD and the ToK will go hand-in-hand.

[Elivo]

Easy to use and navigate is all i really need for it to be a success, everything else is just extra gravy!!

[Gaiden]

I personally find the ToK to be a gimmick. Most people won't read/care about the lore and/or it's stories. One thing I thought was kind of cool was it will list all the NPCs you talk to and if you're in the area they'll show up where they are at in it..If I heard it correctly. I just don't see myself caring enough to go kill 1000 Squigs (they mentioned stuff like this in the video). Hopefully it's useful though.

[Otik]

The Tome of Knowledge is a neat idea, something I haven't seen much of in MMOs, but what would it take for you to decide the feature was well-implemented?

After all, it seems there's a lot of elements that make up the tome - enemy kill trackers, information on the game world, titles, notes, records, history, quest log stuff, all fun little additions that flesh out the game experience. It probably involves a lot of work to produce, considering all the entries that need to be written, all the triggers that need to be set for them, all the programming to keep track of variou stats, and it's possible the challenge might not be met in parts. Some bits might be cut, or underdeveloped, or simply not meet your own personal standards for completion.

So, what will it take for you? What are non-negotiable for you to consider the tome a success? What are just pleasent additions? What are willing compromises or omissions you can accept?

I think a really cool thing to do would be the ability to really print out the ToK for you to have. Brady games/Penny Arcade did special covers for the WoW gamers, but I think being able to ACTUALLY have my ToK would be an awesome thing to have with me.

[Dyst]

1) Endlessness. So much content in it (I mean, its easy to create) that you feel like you'll never fill it all in.

2) Alt-Spillover. In that, to complete the Tome, you'd need several alts, or something.
These two are conflicting! I don't think the ToK should be able to be "completed", or at least it should seem impossible and not really a goal.

[Warbear]

I personally find the ToK to be a gimmick. Most people won't read/care about the lore and/or it's stories. One thing I thought was kind of cool was it will list all the NPCs you talk to and if you're in the area they'll show up where they are at in it..If I heard it correctly. I just don't see myself caring enough to go kill 1000 Squigs (they mentioned stuff like this in the video). Hopefully it's useful though.


Ofcourse it's a gimmick. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing, just means it's something 'this game' has that some don't... a reason to check them out. Why not have fun with it, and enjoy it's usefullness, or lack there of?


Now for my ideas.

This may have been said before, but first, and foremost, it would need to be accurate and up to date. I don't want this "last updated such and such many months ago." bs.

Secondly, I'd like to see a few pages for personalised biography that you can edit to continue your fictional toons life the way you are imagining it.
Kind of like a diary, with limits (or without if that's easily done).

For example; Starting off with a brief (or not so brief) back story and origin. Then edit and make changes as your character grows and gains experiences throughout the course of his/her life in the game. "Today, as I was carefully treading the sands in the Chaos Wastes, constantly keeping a keen eye to the wind for any signs of trouble, I stumbled upon an ancient glyph of sorts. Mammothing any structure I have ever laid my eyes upon, suddenly putting myself in place as a meer speck of sand in the hourglass of time, it called to me. As if wanting... no, begging me to explore it's ancient and well kept secrets." Etc...

The ability to add to it constantly would be nice, especially for RPers, and even a bit of fun for those who aren't really an RPer, but just like the added flare.

[Warbear]

See above post.

[Velryn]

I'm REALLY interested in reading all the Chapters. I hope to get my story fully written, and then document it online or something. It'll take a lot of work though.

[DunRaven]

nice idea above ;)

[Otik]

I'm REALLY interested in reading all the Chapters. I hope to get my story fully written, and then document it online or something. It'll take a lot of work though.

with over 12,000 (if I remember my reading correctly) unlocks currently available, I would say so.

[Stigus]

Personally I think the inclusion of it already makes it a success. It should add a whole new layer of depth to your character as well as feeding you a good amount of story telling and lore to fill out the game world even more.

I already have a guildy who was discussing with me about the possibility of finishing EVERY single quest in the world so that he could fill out his ToK, although I don't think that would work and I suspect it would take him forever to do.

[UNREST]

Ease of use.
Having cool titles is nothing if it's difficult to navigate to get them.

I respectfully disagree. i think that the content is more important than the ease of access. for a kinda strange example, i like to eat Crab Legs and to me it is more than worth it the work that it takes to get the meat out. Yes... I am strange... :cool:

[Farao51]

A lot of different accomplishments.

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I personally find the ToK to be a gimmick. Most people won't read/care about the lore and/or it's stories. One thing I thought was kind of cool was it will list all the NPCs you talk to and if you're in the area they'll show up where they are at in it..If I heard it correctly. I just don't see myself caring enough to go kill 1000 Squigs (they mentioned stuff like this in the video). Hopefully it's useful though.Maybe most people don't care. The closest thing to a mechanic like the TOK, would be badges in City of Heroes. You get badges for lots of different things, you can set bages as character titles, and certain ones give extra benefits like more health. There are certainly people who love badge hunting in that game.

[Anguish]

If the Tome of Knowledge can promote the exploration and collaboration of multiple players toward the goal of achieving various things, be they quests, secrets, or simply rewards for good play, then it will be a success in my eyes.

The key is getting other players involved, I think. I'd love to tell my friends about the pages of my Tome and compare them with others.

[Archerion]

Naked elf pictures inside = Win

[Redguard]

Naked elf pictures inside = Win

HAHA that might do it for me ;-)

It would be a success to me if I could use it to find everything I need and never have to go online to look anything up.
This is unlikely in my eyes though as it would have to include formulas and whatnot because I am a total perfectionist on such things and like to know EVERYTHING that I can about myself and my enemies.

[Rurik]

Ive always thought the badge system in CoX was a great idea that was never fully or properly implemented. It seems the ToK in WAR will, in part, be like the badge system in CoX - you go certain places, you kill certain things, you accomplish certain goals and you get recognition for it.

Where CoX fails is that the badges dont give you enough in terms of concrete rewards - yes many of them combine to give you an small bonus (5% health etc) but they combine in too few variations and the tangible benefits are limited. I hope that the ToK will recognize not only hundreds of in-game miles stones but will also grant surprise rewards for accomplishments. I know that this is already planned for the ToK, I just hope it is on a really grand scale.

[GreyPhanthom]

I respectfully disagree. i think that the content is more important than the ease of access. for a kinda strange example, i like to eat Crab Legs and to me it is more than worth it the work that it takes to get the meat out. Yes... I am strange... :cool:
And if the crab cakes were encased in concrete would you still want them?

I like everything they've mentioned putting in, but with so much stuff it might get confusing. I just hope the more practical parts (quest log, kill counter, the things you might be going through while out in the wild) are easy to find and search through.

I also hope there is a separate section that records all the rewards you've earned and how you got them. This way if someone asks how you got something, you can easily look it up.

[Taaldor]

Good art and nice flavored Warhammer and dark humor text.

Aswell as a few random bits in for the kicks.

[checkthis5000]

For me there are three things.

Art

Well-written Lore

More Unlocks than I can count

If I ever get bored of PvPing (Gork forbid...) or I just want to explore, it would be awesome if I had a reason to. I can't way to just walk around and learn random facts about the Warhammer Universe to be honest.

More than likely as it stands now, I'd probably consider it a success.

[Gurgeh]

A lot of the things people have already mentioned here would make the ToK a really fantastic addition (rather than just great). I like the new emotes, titles and so on ideas because they add depth and character uniqueness but not at the expense of game balance (whereas new abilities would at some point become a bone of contention for someone somewhere).

I am, however, a simple creature and the inclusion of numbers, lots and lots of numbers will make me happy. The number of kills, distance walked, how often I died and to who/ where, my most often cast spell/ used ability. That sort of thing I like being able to know.

I like jumping off stuff in mmos. No idea why but there you go. So greatest distance fallen (survived and not) would be quite nice... plus a title of course! ;)

One of the things I like about Hellgate was the little pop ups you got for killing 1000 zombies or breaking 100 boxes (or whatever) as well as the more out there ones like killing bosses with a cricket bat. A good mix of things that are noted and rewarded will make the ToK great.

Additional stuff like great artwork and stories (your own and your enemies, like the lore of Dwarves but from a Chaos perspective) will be a fantastic element as well and I really hope they do a good job here.

I'm really quite excited about this element of the game (well I'm excited about the whole thing) and I hope they do the concept justice.

[Livistos]

The ToK would be a success if someone never asks me a stupid lore question in ventrilo. A lore question that would be easily answered if the person bothered to read 1/10th of the "common" entries in the Tome of Knowledge.

Gamers don't read enough. Gamers in MMOs especially should read more than your average gamer because it's a ROLE playing experience. You should at least understand your world. Most people don't take the time to do so. If non-warhammer fanbois are encouraged to read (not just skim, but actually READ) the tome of knowledge story and are rewarded for it and people actually become emotionally invested in the warhammer world, then it's done its job.

Look at any single player RPG. THE thing that seperates the GREAT rpgs and the "so-so" rpgs is that the player gets emotionally invested in the characters and genuinely feel for them and their troubles. A good example of this is Final Fantasy 7, which a lot of JRPG fans consider the best in the series (I'll argue that point another day/thread). I would like to think this is because of the emotional bond players developed with the characters, particularly Erith. If the tome of knowledge sucks players in, makes them feel realm, racial, and religious pride, all while making them understand (TRULY understand and "get it") the world they live in, then it's done its job.

Everything else it does like rewards and achievement type stuff, that's just added bonus. On a selfish level, I hope the tome of knowledge for the first time makes me feel rewarded for playing one character. Sure I have one or two alts traditionally in MMOs but the time I invest in them is 1/20th of the time I put into my main.

[Thrid]

@ the people that liked the survivor title idea-

Way way early on, they mentioned something like this, but since this is a RvR game, it might not be a POSITIVE title. Something like "The Coward" for going 10 levels with no deaths was what I took away from it. They also mentioned something about 100 deaths before level 10.

Can't remember my sources and it was over a year ago, so don't take it as the immortal word of Tzeentch or anything ^^

[Graven]

A lot of the things people have already mentioned here would make the ToK a really fantastic addition (rather than just great). I like the new emotes, titles and so on ideas because they add depth and character uniqueness but not at the expense of game balance (whereas new abilities would at some point become a bone of contention for someone somewhere).

I am, however, a simple creature and the inclusion of numbers, lots and lots of numbers will make me happy. The number of kills, distance walked, how often I died and to who/ where, my most often cast spell/ used ability. That sort of thing I like being able to know.

I like doing off stuff in mmos. No idea why but there you go. So greatest distance fallen (survived and not) would be quite nice... plus a title of course! ;)

One of the things I like about Hellgate was the little pop ups you got for killing 1000 zombies or breaking 100 boxes (or whatever) as well as the more out there ones like killing bosses with a cricket bat. A good mix of things that are noted and rewarded will make the ToK great.

Additional stuff like great artwork and stories (your own and your enemies, like the lore of Dwarves but from a Chaos perspective) will be a fantastic element as well and I really hope they do a good job here.

I'm really quite excited about this element of the game (well I'm excited about the whole thing) and I hope they do the concept justice.

Not to seem lazy or something, but this sums up all my expectations :) Everything besides these will be just a pleasant surprise.

[6kNNRQ]

A Tome that chronicles a story line, and explores the Lore of the world based on what you have come across. For me, it will fail if its just another grind for "rewards".