What happens when you dont value money

[wtnind]

This came from:
As I understand thier explinations why would you craft to just make money. Money will nto mean that much and they already said they do not care to create a realistic economy at all.When you don't value gold then you end up with a proxy currency. Just look at diablo 2, everyone traded in stones of jordan and later +5 resist charms / +1 skill charms. People would say, ah yes that amulet is worth 5 sojs. It was blatently absurd, especially since the majority of the 'currency' rare item was hacked duplicates.

Worse yet is tabula rasas non existent economy where the only thing you use money for is buying ammo, no weapons are really better than each other so nothing has any value. The only people with cash are the people with melee weapons and they can't even give it away. This leads to the feeling that all your items are pretty pointless and removes an exciting part of mmorpgs, namely item upgrades.

[RageJuice]

item upgrades are achieved through drops from certain mobs and reknown ranks. The only hang up I can see with a proxy style economy is how the crafting system would fare with useless money. Other than that, it seems as though the game will be more based on going out and getting your gear, not finding a way make money from others and buying your gear.

[KingWrynn]

Personally, I don't like crafting at all. I would rather have EVERYTHING come from drops off of mobs (or points from rvr). Why have to worry about something like an economy inside of a game? I would be perfectly fine with what you described from tabula rasa. I don't think that grinding the same mob for hours to get mats to craft something is interesting, whereas going out to dungeon X to kill boss Y is (or doing quest X, with reward Y). I hated how in wow you were pretty much forced to keep a steady income of gold to be able to participate in end game stuff. Even if you got all your gear off of raids or tokens and didn't craft anything, you still needed to farm gold on the side to pay for repairs, arrows (yes i was a hunter, and getting good ones basically doubled our repair budget), poitions, and enchants every time you got a new item. How is going out and killing elementals for an hour or two fun, when i could be pvping or doing something that relates to the games storyline (questing, instancing)?

[Pogo]

Personally, I don't like crafting at all. I would rather have EVERYTHING come from drops off of mobs (or points from rvr). Why have to worry about something like an economy inside of a game? I would be perfectly fine with what you described from tabula rasa. I don't think that grinding the same mob for hours to get mats to craft something is interesting, whereas going out to dungeon X to kill boss Y is (or doing quest X, with reward Y). I hated how in wow you were pretty much forced to keep a steady income of gold to be able to participate in end game stuff. Even if you got all your gear off of raids or tokens and didn't craft anything, you still needed to farm gold on the side to pay for repairs, arrows (yes i was a hunter, and getting good ones basically doubled our repair budget), poitions, and enchants every time you got a new item. How is going out and killing elementals for an hour or two fun, when i could be pvping or doing something that relates to the games storyline (questing, instancing)?

it wasnt fun, thats why they did dailys, but it was there excuse to keep you submerged in the game longer, hopefully in an effort so that you didnt get burnt out, but we all jave seen how that worked. So yes I agree wtih you, crafting has no place in WAR.

[flipper]

You _would_ end up with a proxy currency but the main form of trading in this game will be an auction house, we can assume that the only way to buy things from it will be with gold.

[Avihai]

I come from FFXI, a game where you get all armour and weapons from Crafting and not from PvE. Thats not to say you didn't get anything from PvE but that was Endgame. Because you needed to get armor from other crafters there was a HUGE emphasis on the Economy. As much as it was an important part of the game I think that it is actually one of it's biggest downfalls. you were required to farm HUGH amounts of money for some almost mandatory items. And worse yet during all of the very necessary economy fixes it became so difficult for lower level players to make the money necessary to play the damn game.

As for removing currency entirely, I can't see that happening because there are Auction Houses already in the cities so I can't see there being NO currency. But in a game where Gear comes from PvP, RvR, and PvE and not from players crafting everything I don't see much need for Crafting.

And I really like the crafting system in wow. I thought it was quite a nice way to implement it, I'd like to see WAR do similar.

[Auron_ff10]

I was under the impression that crafting in WAR covered potions, equipment 'add-ons' and siege equipment 'add-ons' from what we've heard so far but I'm not sure how much of that is just rumour. If it's true though then there will definately be a need for crafting and an economy since all the produce will be consumable in some way and so will constantly be in demand.

There's also the fact that you may not need to craft to make money but selling things to enhance other players' abilities in your realm will benefit your realm as a whole and increase the chance of your realm reaching the opposing capital city.

[Darkcyde]

From what I understood from what info has been released regarding Professions, all crafting in WAR will be focused on consumables and not gear. I recall one of the Dev's saying flat-out there won't be any crafted equipment which, me being an FFXI veteran of sorts, is perfectly all right by me.

Games that try to engineer a detailed and "Required" economy in their games not only put new players at a disadvantage due to loads of in-game currency being needed to keep yourself at a semi-even keel with your fellow players, but it also makes Gold Farmers and Buyers an extremely real issue. The more a game's economy turns the gears of said-game, the more control Gold Farmers can have affecting the gameplay overall. Removing that aspect of a game and making money less "Important" in regards to how necessary it is to function, the less impact or even interest Gold Farming companies have to step in and screw things up.

[Avihai]

I'm from the school of thought that if you can get your gear from PvE Why bother with crafting? In a game like FFXI there was no PvE gear(yes I know endgame but it doesn't count) thus you need to get your gear somehow.


I actually found it to be a really novel concept when I first played WoW. I trudged through a couple of low level instances and found that I never had to buy gear. I loved it... save my money for other things, why not!

I think WoW got it right when they decided to put in professions that enhanced gear rather than provided it. I hope to see that in WAR.

[Darkcyde]

In a game like FFXI there was no PvE gear(yes I know endgame but it doesn't count) thus you need to get your gear somehow.

Actually, the end-game drops you got, especially after CoP, we're just items you had to use in Crafting to get your piece. So if you wanted that Best of the Best Samurai chest-piece, you had to A: get the drop from some Sky God or something akin to that then B: Find a level 100 Woodworker to craft the piece you wanted from it.

FFXI failed on so many levels...

[Avihai]

oh ya... and if I remember correctly if was harder to get the drops to make the items to craft then it is to get the abjuwhatever to craft you piece.... I had a friend who used to hunt gods in the past.... thats right he was done with all the sets he's wanted and he said he spent hundreds of millions getting there... not to mention the time he was in an HNMLS just to gain the points to gain the drops... Non social LSs were such a useless time sink... ach!

I was mainly referring to Dynamis when I said endgame... I know more people who are still farming that hellish place. finding an endgame shell is hard... finding an HNMLS that can compete with JPs is damn near impossible.

So much fail.

[Zelmor]

I come from FFXI, a game where you get all armour and weapons from Crafting and not from PvE. Thats not to say you didn't get anything from PvE but that was Endgame. Because you needed to get armor from other crafters there was a HUGE emphasis on the Economy. As much as it was an important part of the game I think that it is actually one of it's biggest downfalls. you were required to farm HUGH amounts of money for some almost mandatory items. And worse yet during all of the very necessary economy fixes it became so difficult for lower level players to make the money necessary to play the damn game.

As for removing currency entirely, I can't see that happening because there are Auction Houses already in the cities so I can't see there being NO currency. But in a game where Gear comes from PvP, RvR, and PvE and not from players crafting everything I don't see much need for Crafting.

And I really like the crafting system in wow. I thought it was quite a nice way to implement it, I'd like to see WAR do similar.

yes but farming money in FFXI was made hard for a reason so you would buy your gil from sony instead.

[gtgoskate]

They need to make sure that there is no way what so ever to exploit the economy.

I remember when SWG first came out 20k was alot of money and could buy almost anything with it. But due to the credit duping and the inflation of the economy 20 million is not alot of money.

I honestly dont want to see the game have 1 gold as alot than 2 years down the road have 1 gold be the end of the poor stick

[Ansalem]

Well, it's a natural part of MMO's for the money to lose value over time just because there tends to be more money being created (loot, selling to npc's) than destroyed (buying from npc's). The only way to stop it is to ensure buying things from npc's is such a necessity that nobody ever saves much. But then you get the gold selling problem because everybody needs money so badly.

And of course the only way to stop gold selling is to make sure everybody is already insanely rich, or nix gold entirely from the game. Pick your evil.

[Fiale]

I would like an ecomony where having say 100g made you able to buy all you need, and maintaining 100g easily done. If items come from PvE / PvP , if they many are BoP and only consumables buyable then you do not need much money and there is no need to farm items or gold. No reason to buy gold, and having 1000's of gold makes you no more able to play or buy things than someone with 100g.

[Avihai]

Binding equipment. Nuff said'

[Randalthor]

LOL at the Diablo thing.
I'll trade you 10 SoJ's for your helmet OP.
Sorry, I had to get that out.
I'm alright with there not being a realistic economy, the economy in WAR has been related to Diablo a lot. Now, why am I alright with it? This is because I might be interested in crafting if it won't have down sides to my gold by doing so. Also, I want to do ToK unlocks, random RvR battles, Scenarios, Keep Sieges, Public Quests, General Quests, Capital City Sieges, and the most important of the two (in my eyes) Exploring and Socializing. There's just so much going on I don't have time to get gold.

[Ansalem]

LOL at the Diablo thing.
I'll trade you 10 SoJ's for your helmet OP.
Sorry, I had to get that out.
I'm alright with there not being a realistic economy, the economy in WAR has been related to Diablo a lot. Now, why am I alright with it? This is because I might be interested in crafting if it won't have down sides to my gold by doing so. Also, I want to do ToK unlocks, random RvR battles, Scenarios, Keep Sieges, Public Quests, General Quests, Capital City Sieges, and the most important of the two (in my eyes) Exploring and Socializing. There's just so much going on I don't have time to get gold.

But you do have time for trading and hoarding items to accomplish the same goal. Don't get me wrong I loved the trading metagame in D2 but gold is just so much easier and does exactly the same thing. Trading's great for regular multiplayer games but it doesn't really fit the huge economies of MMO's imo.

Besides you get gold for doing all those things in WAR from my understanding. Granted I'm not in beta, so I don't know for sure.