G15 Legit?

[Vronx]

I'm concerned with the legitimacy of a g15 keyboard, as i have heard its a shady subject in mmos being that there are keys which can perform detailed macros with 1 push of a button, now im not totally sure but near positive there are ingame macros and want to ask does the fact that there are macros in the game make the g15 legit, and if there are no macros in the game do you think being able to have an upperhand because your keyboard has macros will be unfair?

[Loekii]

Well Mythic has stated it will support the keyboard.

Here is the information about it:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33720&highlight=logitech+keyboard

Will it give an upperhand? It really depends on how extensive the macros will be.

Overall, I don't think the board itself will give you the upper hand, unless you need what the board offers.

I think that a good player that is comfortable clicking, etc, will do just fine.

[Retina]

It's funny, I have one and love it, yet I don't use the macro function at all right now. I did use it for a game several years ago to help with looting (there was no autoloot option, but it had a slash command to do it ... uh, duh?).

I can obviously automate key presses, but since it can't react to game events, that's usually not that much help.

The LCD has barely been used in games and gave no advantage at all. It's better used for monitoring other computer functions while the game is fullscreen.

[Keiser]

It's funny, I have one and love it, yet I don't use the macro function at all right now. I did use it for a game several years ago to help with looting (there was no autoloot option, but it had a slash command to do it ... uh, duh?).

I can obviously automate key presses, but since it can't react to game events, that's usually not that much help.

The LCD has barely been used in games and gave no advantage at all. It's better used for monitoring other computer functions while the game is fullscreen.

This right here is exactly correct. I've also owned one for several years while playing WoW, I've never set up a macro key to perform a macro, I just use those 18 extra keys as extra regular old keys and bound them to action bar slots.

The most useful thing for the LCD I found was Ventrilo/voicechat. Vent has a module that lets you see who is currently talking, who recently spoke, any recent actions in the channel (player just joined/left the channel/server). It was very nice for when someone yells "oh my god it's coming for me save me I'm dying" but don't say "heal [name] plz".

Theoretically you *could* set up the macros to exploit, but it honestly wouldn't work very well, especially in an RvR based game.

[Siegmen]

This right here is exactly correct. I've also owned one for several years while playing WoW, I've never set up a macro key to perform a macro, I just use those 18 extra keys as extra regular old keys and bound them to action bar slots.

The most useful thing for the LCD I found was Ventrilo/voicechat. Vent has a module that lets you see who is currently talking, who recently spoke, any recent actions in the channel (player just joined/left the channel/server). It was very nice for when someone yells "oh my god it's coming for me save me I'm dying" but don't say "heal [name] plz".

Theoretically you *could* set up the macros to exploit, but it honestly wouldn't work very well, especially in an RvR based game.


What if its a macro to automate the twisting of auras? Would that provide an advantage in an rvr game?

[Loekii]

I would be interested in getting one simply to get stat read outs on the lcd -- as one less thing on screen.

If the LCD was larger, I would love to have it serve as a chat window (thus getting the Chat window off the screen as well).

[impulsebooks]

If the LCD was larger, I would love to have it serve as a chat window (thus getting the Chat window off the screen as well).


That is a great idea, I would really like that.

[Gpunk]

I would be interested in getting one simply to get stat read outs on the lcd -- as one less thing on screen.

If the LCD was larger, I would love to have it serve as a chat window (thus getting the Chat window off the screen as well).

Vent integration to let me know who is speaking!

[Retina]

Some game implementations did show you recent tells to you, but not chat. No reason it can't except it's such a low resolution.

Could it be used for twisting? Perhaps, but you'd have to make sure the timing is perfect which can be done through the macro editor by editing the delays between keystrokes. The question of this providing a tangible advantage...not sure as I don't really play twisting classes. But it can easily automate around the cooldowns by setting a macro key to switch to a debuff or cleanse aura, wait the cooldown time, then switch to a defensive aura. Another to do the same but the last switch goes to an offensive aura, etc, etc.

The main point being that it can't respond to in game events as the macro keys on the keyboard have to be pressed by you. So again this goes back to your skill level in determining the right action at the right time.

[Loekii]

Vent integration to let me know who is speaking!

I wont use vent or any voice mod.

Chat is bad enough without having to listen to idle prattleing (let alone the ooc voices). Just not enjoyable enough, nor advantage to overcome the negatives in my opinion.

Now, if they had voice filters to lock it to race and gender, then I might consider trying it. Until then, its chat windows only.

[Gunter]

I wont use vent.

Ok teamspeak or some other voice chat. That would be cool if the G15 did that?

[Keiser]

What if its a macro to automate the twisting of auras? Would that provide an advantage in an rvr game?

Chosen auras must be active to use certain abilities as far as I've heard, similar to a stance system but you get the effect of the aura. So yes theoretically you could sit there and have a bunch of auras twist automatically, but then you would not be able to perform any attack except autoattack.

I suppose you could have 2 accounts, say a marauder as your main and a chosen on autofollow with autotwist macros running to debuff anything you fight on the marauder... hell if you want to pay an extra $15 a month to be a marauder with auras, go for it.

I wont use vent or any voice mod.

Chat is bad enough without having to listen to idle prattleing (let alone the ooc voices). Just not enjoyable enough, nor advantage to overcome the negatives in my opinion.

Now, if they had voice filters to lock it to race and gender, then I might consider trying it. Until then, its chat windows only.

Vent/voice chat with random annoying people = bad, ventrilo for guild communication is a must. The advantages to A. not having to type to get information to other people and B. not having to read the chat log to receive information is invaluable. All other things being equal a team with vent will destroy, rip apart, and plain slaughter an opposing team without voice chat.

[Gunter]

I wont use vent or any voice mod.

Chat is bad enough without having to listen to idle prattleing (let alone the ooc voices). Just not enjoyable enough, nor advantage to overcome the negatives in my opinion.

Now, if they had voice filters to lock it to race and gender, then I might consider trying it. Until then, its chat windows only.


That will put you at a disadvantage then. Its not a badchoice though. I enjoy talking to my friends and thats whom I voice chat with. Its hard enpough to coordinate units with voice chat....I do not know how we did it without it in DAOC, we did though. ...oh well more things improve the more dependant you become.

[Bad_Boy]

I recently got a G15 and its not really fair to ban a product on the market as a potential exploit, its no more likely to be exploited than an actual program which runs on your PC.

I do however feel that it gives an advantage because the G-Keys are programmable and could theoretically be programmed to do anything, and by programmable I mean litterally nitty-gritty programming not just exclusively manual-quick-macroing.

I don't feel this will be exploited much and even as a student programmer myself I wont be making my own programs, I'll only be binding a few taunts and dances and key phrases to my G-Keys.

[Nemes1s]

Chat is bad enough without having to listen to idle prattleing (let alone the ooc voices). Just not enjoyable enough, nor advantage to overcome the negatives in my opinion.
Agreed. It sucks to find out your cyber partner is really a guy.

[Loekii]

That will put you at a disadvantage then. Its not a badchoice though. I enjoy talking to my friends and thats whom I voice chat with. Its hard enpough to coordinate units with voice chat....I do not know how we did it without it in DAOC, we did though. ...oh well more things improve the more dependant you become.

Dependency is the problem. Gamers are really bad at declaring things a 'must'. I am not sure if this is only because they cannot do it other ways, or if they are just lazy about trying other methods. /shrug.

Good players and good groups don't need to have constant voice communication, especially in a 3rd person game. Player skill fills in the gaps and simple signals are all that are needed.

I see Voice more as a preference, like using specific keyboards and mouse devices. For some people, it makes worlds of difference, yet for others the change is insignificant. It is about picking what works for you.

[Gelst]

The g15 is awesome... i like the lcd screen that will tell you whos talking on vent or ts..

I personally own a n52 gamepad and i love it. amazing macros for FPS or WOW. its not cheating . you can do the same thing with any keyboard.

[Loekii]

I personally own a n52 gamepad and i love it. amazing macros for FPS or WOW. its not cheating . you can do the same thing with any keyboard.

I think that is a key point. They should never allow one device to do something that other devices cannot.

I plan on getting a G15, but I certainly would not want to get an exclusive advantage from it.

[prxprt]

Edited for content

[Dalhara]

Edited for content

Please. Take that nonsense back to the WoW forums, it's not welcome here.

on topic: I also have a G15 and have used it in a few games mostly for binding commonly used chat messages to do with crafting advertisements etc. particularly handy in FFXI, also used it as a set of action bar keys for WoW and the same currently in AoC.

I don't think the keyboard is naturally able to add timing to it, last time i checked anyway, nor can it loop macros indefinitely for bot like actions so I don't see it really giving any tangible advantages.

Mostly I like the LCD as in most games it naturally will read out current character stats which can be handy in certain circumstances, also nice to have a big clock readout so you don't completely lose track of time while playing :p

[Keiser]

I don't think the keyboard is naturally able to add timing to it, last time i checked anyway, nor can it loop macros indefinitely for bot like actions so I don't see it really giving any tangible advantages.

Macro with delays (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Keiser/G15_macro.jpg)
Set to repeat on button toggle (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Keiser/G15_macro2.jpg)

[Bait]

Mythic's policy since DAOC has been 'One Button Press, One ability'. So it is likely that they will frown uppon the use of the G15's macro functions.

However, there is something non-G15 owners should know about the macros. They're dumb macros... there is no intelligence to them. You can't 'Bot' with the G15, you can't afk level with the G15 (tho you could potentially setup a spell rotation that could make PvE pretty mindless). The most I've used my G15 for in MMOs is to rebuff, in AoC I have to cast like 5-6 buffs on myself when I die. I just have them programmed into a G15 macro so when I can press a button and wait 30 seconds then I'm buffed.

Also, it doesn't do this in the background. So if you press a macro (like my buff macro) and try to sit around talking in guild chat... it'll go on its merry way press 1 *wait 4 seconds* 2 *wait 4 seconds* 3... so you'll be like "Hey gu1ys, hows it goin2g?" in guild chat and your buffs will never fire.

[Ciberclaw]

You could use shot rotations quite easily with it.

Choose enemy, Enable toggable repeating macro for WoW hunter shot rotation (Aimed shot, wait for Autoshot, Multishot, etc... like it was long time ago when aimed was obligatory).

Then watch TV or whatever until you hear the SFX for cannot use that ability unless you target a enemy.

You would then, select another enemy, send pet, use poison shot and reenable macro.

Edit: While i didn't use the previous one, cause Grinding was already assured victory anyway, i did usually customize a small party PLD buff macro.

F1 -> Blessing of Wisdom F2 -> Might F3 -> Wisdom etc...

Press every 5 mins as it wear off xD

[Xxpect]

I don't know about the g15, but I do know that in DAoC the Nostomo n52 was allowed as a single keypress/single action device. Using the macro functions to twist and perform multiple keypresses was not allowed by Mythic. I can also tell you that playing a Minstrel in DAoC was much easier using the macros of the n52 than it was without. Having to press one button that would continuously twist 3 songs until you pressed it again was way too much auto control, or having to press one button to switch from your weapon to your flute and cast the mez. Most likely multiple action macros will not be allowed by Mythic. There was also the lag factor when running continuous macros where it would get you all screwed up and you were actually better off doing things manually.

Note: I do not condone the use of single button press/multiple action macros :D

[Prodigy]

To me it's not really worth it for $70 (Canadian). I use a regular 10 dollar wired keyboard, and it works just fine, the backlight is annoying, if I really want to see vent I can alt tab, but I recognize all my guildmates' voices anyways. The macros I can make myself ingame if I really need them and bind them to like 40+ keys on my regular keyboard I am not using. If you have extra money you wanna blow and raise your e-selfesteem or something, go ahead and get it, but it certainly should not, and most likely will not, give you any advantages over anybody else with a working keyboard.

[sniperwolf]

I am currently using one, it is a very easy + comfortable keyboad to use, I hardly ever use the G key macros except for simple responses in IM applications, such as 'lol' 'what?' etc.

And the backlight is good when sitting in a dark room and trying to find the Pause|Break key ;)

Also, there is a performance monitor to see how much the specific program is taxing upon your system.

Media control keys are also great.

I cant see why there's so much G5 bashing, it is the 'best' keyboard on the market, but you can do everything that it does on a normal keyboard.

Peace.

ps. It's only $50, why is the price such an issue?

[logicalmayhem]

my bro has 1 my self i cant stand it i like to have the side of the keyboard end at the esc key, i i feel weird not being able to like rest my little finger on the side of the keyboard.

call me crazy, but realy there are macros in game the lcd on vent is the only thing thats remotely useful.(+ pretty soo you know whos talkng by there voice)

[Ragenrok]

Theres tons of usefull info that can be displayed on the LCD. If you use everest you can have everything about your computer displayed (Clocks, heat ect..) Lots of games have in-game displays (wow has the ability to display all your character stats for you and stuff, battlefield games display your KD ratios and ranks and such)

the macros are great, I only use them to activate programs (fraps, xfire screenshots ect) and the backlights are very nice for me as I play in a darker room lots.

Only complaint is the macros are on the side and I constantly hit macro 1 instead of ESC. lol

[Yonan]

my bro has 1 my self i cant stand it i like to have the side of the keyboard end at the esc key, i i feel weird not being able to like rest my little finger on the side of the keyboard.
I can't stand it either, for the same reason - I ripped out the lower 4 Gx keys.
call me crazy, but realy there are macros in game the lcd on vent is the only thing thats remotely useful.(+ pretty soo you know whos talkng by there voice)

Yer, I wouldn't recommend one, I'd recommend a second monitor to see whose talking on vent and for other info display. Only convenient bit for me is the 2 usb ports... and they're usb 1 so can't charge my ipod so are fairly useless except for slow data transfer.

[CrUsHeR]

I'm concerned with the legitimacy of a g15 keyboard, as i have heard its a shady subject in mmos being that there are keys which can perform detailed macros with 1 push of a button, now im not totally sure but near positive there are ingame macros and want to ask does the fact that there are macros in the game make the g15 legit, and if there are no macros in the game do you think being able to have an upperhand because your keyboard has macros will be unfair?

i don't know how far the G15 macros can go, but i'll expand my answer to macro tools in general:


- you don't gain skills (like strength from jumping) in WAR by repeating a keypress

- there are no "combos" to be executed, though using the macro keyboard for it would be alright

- you don't gain experience or renown by joining and idling scenarios like in WoW


so i don't really see a problem here.

[Brax]

Sorry I haven't read the threads, but wanted to respond anyways. In WoW, I determined (at least for my play style) that using the G15 macros in PvP was not beneficial. In fact it was working against me.

In-game macros you can cancel with movement. A macro on the G15, well it will continue no matter what. If you start a long and complicated macro, and have to adjust on the fly, you are screwed. You have to go through that whole sequence.

And if you are like me, where sometimes you are waiting for a cooldown to pop up, and you hit the key multiple times, it remembers the key presses and repeats the macro that number of times.

And what if the target resists the first part of the macro? Or something misses? Then you wouldn't want to complete the macro. You need to adjust. The G15 macro won't let you interrupt it. At least not from what I know.

The only G15 macro I would use in WoW were small ones, which could be done in-game as well, that I knew I would never have to interrupt.

[Bad_Boy]

You can actually manually program the G-Keys so perhaps some of you people are underestimating the usefulness.

If I wanted to solve some of the problems you referred to in the above post I could simply have a function for one G-Key which said something like

"if (!cancel)
{
// Perform some massive macro
}"

then on another G-Key

"if (buttonPresseD)
{
cancel = true
}
else
{
cancel = false
}"

or something like that and you could cancel a progressing macro.

[Moger]

I love my G15 even have a extra version 1 in a box in the closet as the v2 is not as nice. Its usefull to automate repeat mindless task, previous game I play crafting required may key press, select numbers down arrow etc so it was good for automating them. I though about a yer bleedin > rotten arrer key, but in pratice it was not worth it, arrow filght time is not constant range effect it and as was said before sometimes you miss with the first one. Though when I play I am spamming the keys manually pretty fast sometimes too. Though I bet a BW probably have a macro that drops the ton of dots on me instantly. For an instant cast instant hit skill I could see using it to do combos, delays can be changed to make sure all skills kick off. What would Mythic think about this, could they detect it, I don't know. I mean there is a addon that lets you spam 1 key and do multiple actions so its close to that, but it is 1 press multiple actions. Is it a huge advantage does it make a more dangerous enemy? I don't really think so. If you think it is, what about faster comp/connection/reaction time, I mean all kinds of things can give a little advantage that are not accessable to all dut to money, location or just plain genetics. I think too many thiings can happen in PVP that a long macro would be a disadvantage. Though in PVE grinding it can reduce the chance of carpel tunnel syndrome from pressing 3 4 5 6 7 7 7 8 on each monster.

[Hedon]

You can set up a macro to twist for you perfectly. Or semi-perfectly, as the next aura won't trigger if you're on global cooldown when it's 'sposed to be activated. Fair or not, since it's certainly an advantage both in pvp and pve?