People like hotbars..

[pitty]

People like hotbars.. seriously if your going to have 12 total skills on 1 hotbar available why not just make it use a gamepad and call it a console game ?

I for one like my 10 hotbars in eq2 lots of choices and fully customizable - its what MMO's are all about.

I really dont like this new trend of dumbing down games to please the masses, it just takes away from the feeling of complexity and depth wich every mmo should have imo.

They should start you out with 1 or 2 hotbars, but as you level you should have the option of adding more. I mean if you cant handle 5-6 hotbars at max level then you probably shouldnt be playing mmo's anyway.


2 Hotbars FTL

[Vengance]

agreed. Unfortunately I don't have much MMO experience, but i know on WoW i had all of my action bars visible and full of stuff.

And i was still wishing for more variety.

Hopefully WAR will be as complex and interesting as they make it sound with only the 20 or so skills they've promised us.

[Sykishi]

This looks like a place that, how dose Yahtzee put it.. oh yeah, The PC master race. This looks like the thread the PC master race will rant about how console games and gamers are inferior to them because they don't use 1000 hot keys.Games will be made to be as accessible to as many people as possible so please don't keep going on in the thread, because its just going to lead someone into a hate speech about how this is betetr than that and yadda yadda yadda.

*edit i should have read pittys post closer, hes already making the speech*

[Rad]

Ok.

But I dont know why you created this thread...what exactly are you talking about?

I hope its not because of the war videos/screenshots showing 2 hotbars. That would be silly.

[Bakebehe]

Yea, really, OP coming off as an elitist without knowing whether it'll turn out that way or not.

I hope they have the option to display more, but honestly, being able to switch between hotbars using the keyboard was much faster for me. Keymapped everything - the only reason why you'd want the multiple bars all over the place is if you want to use your mouse and click. And mouse-clicking, well that's pretty dumb, better players don't waste the time.

[stiltskin]

I 'sort' of agree with the OP but at the same time I look on this from another dimension with it being a pvp game .
If you look at the likes of Tekken / Streetfighter2 / Vitua Fighter ( to use a pure pvp example of games ) the amount of moves isn't very large at all, but the incredible amount of combos/ counters bring a huge amount of depth to them.
I think it all comes down to the gameplay of WAR , if there is only a handful of buttons to press , then sure the game will be appealing to casuals more , but the lack of depth will make the more diserning players become bored quicker.
I agree, it is a 'worrying trend'. Unfortunately , since WAR is trying to 'compete' for the player base from other MMO's out there , and EA will be wanting to see a return on its investment , I forsee a pattern that appears to follow most MMO's : namely they will dumb the game down as time progresses anyway.
If at launch there is a large player base , a considerable proportion will inevitably cry nerf /buff whether it needs either or not . If the launch isn't quite as successful , they will dumb stuff down to appeal to more casual players , with the same result.
I think EAMythic is trying to compromise on abilities for a middle of the road approach , and edge -its- bets .
Ultimately though , you will need to see the finished version of the game to actually see what features are implemented and what is available .
But , to use the Tekken etc above example again, don't confuse skill in a game as being anything to do with whether its a console or pc game or what is displayed on screen at any single time , as correlation between any is very vague at best.

[Roargh Growler]

Amateur.
DISPLAYING 2 hotbars does NOT mean there ARE only 2 hot bars.
Could you also post a question, or at least some sort of notice what it is you like and dislike, and how you think it should or should not be ?

That being said, does anybody know how many hotbars there are ?

[Bakebehe]

-snip- Considering WoW is ultra-casual friendly and they have a lotta hotbars enabled I don't see how this theory holds water. It's not like casual players lack coordination or lack intelligent thought, it's just that thye have less time to play.

[Evict]

Yea, really, OP coming off as an elitist without knowing whether it'll turn out that way or not.

I hope they have the option to display more, but honestly, being able to switch between hotbars using the keyboard was much faster for me. Keymapped everything - the only reason why you'd want the multiple bars all over the place is if you want to use your mouse and click. And mouse-clicking, well that's pretty dumb, better players don't waste the time.

QFT!
I feel having like 1000 different options on my screen lead to button mashing...and it does! You can watch any "elite" WoW video footage and if they have their combat text going, all you see is "this skill is not yet ready" spam.

[pitty]

I hope its not because of the war videos/screenshots showing 2 hotbars. That would be silly.

Well yes it is actually, plus i'm sure i read somewhere 2-3 hotbars will be the most

It's probably too late into the development to actually change anything anyway, just stating my feelings on hotbars.

I like to have my bags and other miscellaneous gadgets on my hotbars so everythings within reach. plus with a high resolution the screen doesnt really clutter up that much.


EDIT:

Nevermind my fears have been alleviated :)

Warhammer Vault
Warhammer Vault: In the gameplay videos I've seen, the UI clutter factor has been kept to a minimum, with only one hotbar visible. Is it going to stay that way? One thing that does kind of bug me about most MMOs now is that you need multiple hotbars (I have 6 open in EQ2..) for all your abilities and such.

EAMythic: That's a great question. The challenge of working on the User Interface is that people tend to use their interface in completely different ways, so building a system that works with all of them can be quite difficult. The reason you tend to see one action bar in most screenshots, honestly, is that it's not often the UI we're trying to showcase, but moreover some aspect of the gameplay or the environments. So the setting simply hasn't been turned on. This leads to, what I think is really your question, which is... will you need to use multiple bars? Well that all depends on how you play, and how you like to manipulate the UI. Our goal while working on it is to provide as many options for you as humanly possible, so that whether you're a person who likes to keep the display to a minimum, or a person who wants to have action bars all over the screen, you'll easily be able to do either.

[Roargh Growler]

Thank you for that reply hombre !

You pwned that one.
Restecp ...

I did not knew that, and now this means its fully customisable.
I hope PHOTEKUI or similar comes out , so that you can make a super clean PvP UI.

Peace.

[Gromli-son of Kartek]

I heard in a vid a couple mothes ago taht you can put as many bars you want and can put them wherever and its all customizable,calm down.

[Nerissa]

the only reason why you'd want the multiple bars all over the place is if you want to use your mouse and click. And mouse-clicking, well that's pretty dumb, better players don't waste the time.

I tend to put quest items in them, or abilities that I do click (fire and forget buffs)



I also appreciate the visual reminder of just what the hell I have binded to that key in case I haven't played the toon in a while.

[Kohak]

The true PC master does not need bars and icons. He will graft abilities to key combinations, and graft those key combinations into his mind! If you have to look at the screen to determine what's bound where ,then you are a novice!!!

Seriously though, they need to dumb down MMOs if they want to be successful. Look at FPS that right there requires pure pvp skill, and you can see a huge difference between people who have it and don't. If they didn't limit the games capacity to keep up with experts skills, then the casuals would feel too intimidated and would go play elsewhere, they'd lose potential customers.

[Rad]

It's probably too late into the development to actually change anything anyway

What? /wrist

[pitty]

What? /wrist

Well yes, if they had of designed the game with 2 hotbars as we've seen in every single video released, and other articles stating only a certain amount of skills would be available and you would have to change skills between fights. It would be quite plausable to assume it would be too late to change the core UI mechanics.

However that wasn't the case as the Warhammer vault interview i found stated otherwise.

It's ovbvious you didn't even know about the hotbar situation or you would have posted in your 1st response. So kindly take your /wrist and smash yourself in the face with it.

[Stiltzkin]

Wow... you people really look down on clickers... I've played against/with plenty of great PvPers who click. They memorize things too it's just of where the abilities are on screen so they don't have to "determine where it's bound". They also use Q and E to continue to be mobile while clicking their abilities. Maybe you play too many FPS games and forget that in an MMO as soon as you click on someone (or hit tab depending) you can do what you want with the mouse. There is no cross hair to aim your fireball you just need to hit A and D to turn with the enemy to make sure it gets off. I usually bind 1-7 with the important abilities then "using my inferior brain power" remember where I have placed the other abilities and click them when necessary. and I'm sure after my 15+ years of online game playing I am at least above the level of novice. Funny how the second person who posted knew people like kohak would show up. Yet he didn't even hesitate to spout his nonsense.:mad:

[Roargh Growler]

I do not look down on them, i just see them as less competitive.
I hope we soon get more detail on the Combat UI.

I think we need to clear some things up rather soon.

[Evict]

Wow... you people really look down on clickers... I've played against/with plenty of great PvPers who click. They memorize things too it's just of where the abilities are on screen so they don't have to "determine where it's bound". They also use Q and E to continue to be mobile while clicking their abilities. Maybe you play too many FPS games and forget that in an MMO as soon as you click on someone (or hit tab depending) you can do what you want with the mouse. There is no cross hair to aim your fireball you just need to hit A and D to turn with the enemy to make sure it gets off. I usually bind 1-7 with the important abilities then "using my inferior brain power" remember where I have placed the other abilities and click them when necessary. and I'm sure after my 15+ years of online game playing I am at least above the level of novice. Funny how the second person who posted knew people like kohak would show up. Yet he didn't even hesitate to spout his nonsense.:mad:

I have no problem with "clickers." They can have all the hot bars and click all they want...I don't think it makes them any less skilled if that's the way they play. The current UI (which will still undergo many changes) looks great to me...and the devs have already mentioned that they don't want you to have to use a bunch of hotbars spread all over your screen...but if you want to do that, then you are more than welcome to.

[Vortex]

Well yes, if they had of designed the game with 2 hotbars as we've seen in every single video released, and other articles stating only a certain amount of skills would be available and you would have to change skills between fights. It would be quite plausable to assume it would be too late to change the core UI mechanics.
Hmmm...could it be that those articles were not referring to skills but tactics and morale abilities? There are limited slots for those and you have to decide before combat with what combination you want to go but you can swap them when out of combat. Just a thought.

[Pangscar]

Whats the big deal? If you don't like the default hotbars then just get one of the many action bar mods that will be available and tailor them to your own liking.

[Gorlung Gutripper]

Personally I like really super clean UI's. I got for the minimalist appraoch especially when it comes to Hotbars.

I guess you can say my play style is more like a console game because I Hotkey 90%+ of my in-game functions... or at least as many as I can my nostrommo and the buttons on my mouse.

I think it is mostly a personal preference and personal playstyle. I was a "clicker" until late in my DAoC "carreer", but when I realized the buty of easily accessable button presses in the fast paced world of PvP combat I decided to train myself to be a hotkey (as I like to call them).

With that being said, I know quite a few clikers who are VERY good at PvP as well.

Again, it is all about personal preference, and each style of game play takes practice to get good at anyways. I just hope that in WAR, I will be able to keep my UI clean and simple.

[Kohak]

Wow... you people really look down on clickers... I've played against/with plenty of great PvPers who click. They memorize things too it's just of where the abilities are on screen so they don't have to "determine where it's bound". They also use Q and E to continue to be mobile while clicking their abilities. Maybe you play too many FPS games and forget that in an MMO as soon as you click on someone (or hit tab depending) you can do what you want with the mouse. There is no cross hair to aim your fireball you just need to hit A and D to turn with the enemy to make sure it gets off. I usually bind 1-7 with the important abilities then "using my inferior brain power" remember where I have placed the other abilities and click them when necessary. and I'm sure after my 15+ years of online game playing I am at least above the level of novice. Funny how the second person who posted knew people like kohak would show up. Yet he didn't even hesitate to spout his nonsense.:mad:

There was a little bit of sarcasm intended in my post. I actually do not like to click that is true. It is not that I think it's superior though, it's that I have to break my concentration from my target, to look at the hotbar, move my mouse over there, click ,and then try to readjust myself. For some reason that is difficult for me to do. So instead I just use keybindings, because hitting keys flows a lot more naturally to me than hitting icons. I usual do put minor items in icons though, like in WoW i'd click my mount, or tradeskills. I was a paladin though, so my hearthstone was key binded! :P

On another not , I'm a bit immature(or really bored take your pick) so I like to troll and cause some chaos I admit it! :P

[Nerissa]

The true PC master does not need bars and icons. He will graft abilities to key combinations, and graft those key combinations into his mind! If you have to look at the screen to determine what's bound where ,then you are a novice!!!



Altoholic here. I make many toons, some of which I may not play for months. The visual reminder is appreciated.

[Rad]

It's ovbvious you didn't even know about the hotbar situation or you would have posted in your 1st response. So kindly take your /wrist and smash yourself in the face with it.

"Hotbar situation"? I didnt post on my 1st response because it was hard to believe that you were whinning about the number of hotbars in a work in progress UI.

But yeah...you are right. Its too late to change the UI and everything else...release in 5 months is like, uh, tomorrow...I mean, add more action bars takes a lot of time. Even if they are there, but hidden (genius?), its too late.

/doom

[johanlm]

Been using nostromo n52;
http://www.belkin.com/images/product/F8GFPC100/FUL1_F8GFPC100.jpg
since 1st day of DAoC and never stopped using it since then. 19 buttons + a steering cross & mx518 = heaven.
Gamepad it's not, more of a keypad witch is an expanding market since more and more is comming.

[Gharr]

I love having lots of skills and then needing many bars to put and THEN making tons of shortcuts for them. Its what makes it fun. U nbeed to have it in your hands when u play. at the beginning u have few skills anyway.
Just like playing hunter or lock in WoW with all the traps, curses and different abilities. At was awesome in PVP.
Few bars or not, there will be addons for this.

[Bonafide]

IIRC from WoW.

The basic UI (no UI mods) showed 1 hotbar (1 hotbar for different stances etc on certain classes) but allowed you to open up 7 or 8 hotbars. This is from the default UI.

I see no reason why WAR will be limited to 2 hotbars.

[Lonesamurai]

Ok, I've been playing MMO's fora good 10 years now and the only one I've enjoyed was Guild Wars when it came to skills asit forcedmeto choose only 8 skillsandmadethat choice tactical...

I DON'T like lots of skills as it makes me screen feel cluttered AND its like having TOO MUCH choice and sometime sends up with me usingthe wrong skill...

[Kridak]

People like hotbars.. seriously if your going to have 12 total skills on 1 hotbar available why not just make it use a gamepad and call it a console game ?

I for one like my 10 hotbars in eq2 lots of choices and fully customizable - its what MMO's are all about.

I really dont like this new trend of dumbing down games to please the masses, it just takes away from the feeling of complexity and depth wich every mmo should have imo.

They should start you out with 1 or 2 hotbars, but as you level you should have the option of adding more. I mean if you cant handle 5-6 hotbars at max level then you probably shouldnt be playing mmo's anyway.


2 Hotbars FTL
wait wait.. theres only 2 hotbars? i like the way lotro did hotbars. there's like 4 hotbars with 1 through =, and the ctrl, alt, and shift variations, all completely customizable. WoW also did a good job. 2 hot bars would seriously suck. :/

[SOTadpole]

There are more than two bars available.

As too necessity of bars... I believe in UO (haven't played in oh... 7-8 years or so) there weren't hotbars. You had to macro things you wanted to do and then memorize where they were on your keyboard. I personally used yellow sticky tabs on my keyboard as a reminder of what was what. Talk about an upgrade from then to now.

On a side note, I still love UO. My first and still favorite MMO and/or gankfest, whichever you prefer to call it.

[Brede]

UI flexibility is key in allowing the largest number of possible players to interact with the game, but that flexibility will always be limited by the mechanics of the game world itself. So, whether you have two hotbars or dozens upon dozens of hotbars, that which you don't need shouldn't clutter your UI (per your imperatives). Beyond that, I don't see how this is a PC v Console debate as I've seen complex console games as I've seen complex PC games.