Initial reaction to Crafting System

[Fumblehammer]

I have found polls for crafting and harvesting preferences, but none to just overall reaction to the crafting system as presented in the podcast. So, let us all know what you think.

[Elge]

"Cool. Where's the rest?"

I've stated my opinion on the crafting system a bunch of times. Perhaps if I'm not lazy I'll just go and find those threads and copy my response. In short, though, I think the system is a great start. A few more crafting professions, at least, and I'd be satisfied. But as it stands now, I just don't know...

[Dollie]

I guess I just don't understand it yet. It looks alright on paper, I may have to 'see-it-to-get-it'.

I just hear them saying "no grinding involved" and then I hear that the profession has levels. I haven't had time to read through all the posts or articles, so that's probably explained somewhere... But in my mind when you level something there's an amount of grinding that goes with it. Then again, that's just due to other MMOs.

[Tau]

It is somewhat lacking. However the overall direction the crafting is set towards is exactly what is needed. Professions that further improve you somewhat in PvP directly (that is as long as potions do somewhat minor buffs, no crazy effects that win battles for you).

[Molnu]

Two crafting professions is extremely small. The crafting professions that are available to me are fine but, I don't want everyone and their mother having my same craft. It devalues it and then nobody will even use your services anyway.

[Elge]

I guess I just don't understand it yet. It looks alright on paper, I may have to 'see-it-to-get-it'.

I just hear them saying "no grinding involved" and then I hear that the profession has levels. I haven't had time to read through all the posts or articles, so that's probably explained somewhere... But in my mind when you level something there's an amount of grinding that goes with it. Then again, that's just due to other MMOs.

By grinding, they meant having to craft a large amount of useless low-level items in order to get to the higher-end stuff. As far as the level system according to crafting goes they really didn't explain much. But by clearly, and on many occasions, stating that their crafting requires "no grinding," they mean you do not need to craft a large excess of cheap product A before you can craft expensive product B.

If you have the materials and ingredients required, you can craft it. My impression of the levels probably dictates the stability of the end-result (in conjunction with the added sub-ingredients) or possibly the potency of the item.

[Yog]

I don't even know if it is ok for launch...ok for now work. Hopefully they are already working on a couple other crafts like blacksmithing, leatherworking and clothcrafting and are planning on having them ready for launch.

[Elge]

I don't even know if it is ok for launch...ok for now work. Hopefully they are already working on a couple other crafts like blacksmithing, leatherworking and clothcrafting and are planning on having them ready for launch.

They've already stated no armor/weapon crafting of any kind. For some obvious, and other not-so-obvious reasons. Here's my take:

Firstly, most of the armor and/or weapons crafted in many other games that included these professions were no where close to the quality of those that you could receive from quests (and in WAR's case, from RVR). They might've been useful in the early stages of the profession, but quickly they were just sold or disposed of for something you got for FREE from a quest. And the best things only really came from the very end of the profession, once you've emptied out your pockets.

Secondly, every character (career) has specific armor. You won't be seeing a Witch Hunter and an Ironbreaker walking around in the same type of armor because they're both extremely different races and classes. They will only wear equips that befit their race and career. Therefore, having a craft that made weapons or armor would've been difficult because there is no general-type armor that everyone can wear, and if he only made class-specific stuff, it would be very difficult to sell.

[Tonzin]

Two crafting professions is extremely small. The crafting professions that are available to me are fine but, I don't want everyone and their mother having my same craft. It devalues it and then nobody will even use your services anyway.

Well for one having small crafting options meaning there is less hunting for a product. Another point is that they devs have already stated there will not be much use for money in the game since a lot of stuff is earned...so selling your services would be pointless since you dont have a lot to spend the money on anyway.
__________________________________________________ _________________________

I happen to love the new crafting set up, so if so many of you are unhappy with the way they have taken crafting what exactly would you suggest they add? Keep in mind that adding armor/weapon crafting is dumb and if you don't understand why read Elges post as well as read up on some articles. Secondly, WAR has taken all of the successful crafts from all games and just implemented the ones that continue to work on a day to day basis. Blacksmithing, Tailoring, and w/e else has a very limited use and reuse value. Potions and Talismans are and will be used every day. So before anyone adds any weird ideas about something that would make them complain less look at its use/reuse value. If it can be used on a daily basis by a LARGE amount of people then by all means share it with us.

Any thoughts on another craft that could expand on their concepts?

[Walrus]

I think it's good and exceptable and could use a bit of expansion. I would have enjoyed using just scavenging and butchering for great loot, but it cannot be :(

Ah well, tis good at the least.

[Tpip]

THis poll is poorly constructed, there needs to be more hought into the options available, that cover a wider range of choices. "I need to look for anotehr game" is not needed for example, and is covered by the "crafting is not needed in WAR" topic.

[Razzik]

I must say that I am interested in the inventive side of crafting instead of get this recipe and these materials. The freedom to explore and craft is refreshing. I agree that there should be more than just apothecary and talismans. An idea I had was something on the lines of taking the armors/weapons you have and making them better. It would be class specific.

So like melee based characters would be able to harden/sharpen/improve the weapons/armors. Mage style classes could help to improve the special/magical on the armor/weapons. I just never agreed with melee classes having a arcane knowledge of potions or enchanting in other games. it just didn't seem right. Nor did a mage that went out mining for ore or working at a forge to make a weapon. If this was used you wouldnt have to worry about race specifics.

Once they get more into it I am sure there will be mastery paths to explore to add diversity to what you want to create. Another idea would be that certain races produce different effects/items/buffs due to the difference in culture and location. I personally am excited about the new direction they have taken with crafting not to mention the endless possibilities I foresee.

[Darrett]

As long as this isn't what they release with, it's fine. They should have a minimum of 4 production crafting skills though.

[Monkey Aids]

I think you should have another option between "OK for launch, but needs expanding" And "I may have to look for another game"

I don't think anyone is going to quit WAR just because of the crafting system but I am extremely disappointed with the lack of variety and the feeling of uniqueness it is leaving me... As explained in the other thread on this topic "Are You Satisfied With The Crafting System" (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38149) but I do not really like finding the post and copying it as there are more then 1

[Frenzied Muffin]

I think people miss some things about not having a huge variety (IE you feel more specialized) but one thing people don't note right away (or see) is that a large amount of professions makes more work for you in the long run.

Take WoW for example it has a good amount of professions, but whats the downside? When I got a new piece of gear I had to hire a enchanter to enchant it, I had to hire a alchemist for pots, I had to hire a tailor for thread and so on. Anyone who was/is a hardcore raider knew that all you did outside of beating up monsters was running around picking flowers, mining and saving crap to disenchant just so I could make my next set of gloves the best they could be.

I'm honestly happy with the outlook on crafting for this game. It's simple and I don't have to worry about getting that 20 essence of blah, 50 pink dusty things, and 3 giant annoying shards. All I have to worry about is having fun and not grinding as much and either making my talismans or pots. Thats whats nice! Less grind = more fun.

[Stigus]

OK I just read the Massively QnA on crafting (http://www.massively.com/2008/06/02/massively-goes-to-war-insights-into-warhammers-crafting-system/) and I think some things said in there are going to clear up a LOT of things in regards to the crafting discussion.

You only have the option of choosing one gathering and one crafting? You can't do two gatherings?

No. Definitely one and one, Mark replied to someone asking that question on one of the boards today. The primary reason is just that we don't have that many skills at the moment. The other thing we've tried to do with all of these skills is - I'm not a big fan of chasing yellow dots on a radar screen. When I play our game I want to get into a scenario, I want to get into a keep siege and I want to kill people! I don't want to be doing rings around the edge of the zone or looking for yellow dots on my radar to go and interact with not-people. I want to get in to RvR and kill people. So - developing the entire crafting system, which is based on Mark's design, we tried very hard to make sure that if you want to do crafting, it's not going to impact your ability to do RvR. It's not going to soak up time, you're not going to have to go to specific places and do it. If you want to do it, you can just do it. If you've got 10 seconds downtime? Make a potion, or start something growing, while you're waiting for the scenario timer to kick off so you can get in and start killing people. That's been a very important, conscious choice for us. I think we've pretty much hit it on just about everything you do in the game to do with crafting.

and this too

This is obviously a question looking out a bit ... do you guys see adding in more crafting elements as the years go by?

I think we would be foolish not to!

It seems like you're aiming to launch with a very tight, very core element...

We wanted to concentrate on - I don't want to use the word 'consumable', it's not an all-encompassing term - wanted to focus on the things that are the most going to help players out in RvR. Viscerally. Like - drink a potion, and suddenly you become stronger on the battlefield. That's the kind of effect you want to have. One thing about talismans is I'm not sure if it's been mentioned - is while some of them last forever, some of them don't - and that enables us to put better abilities in them because we know they're not going to last. They're not going to stick around for that long. So, with that respect, they're also consumables. We want to give players as much ammunition for augmenting and specializing their characters for RvR.

and then there is this too

The choice to not include a weaponsmith or armorsmith is interesting. Was that based on just how the designers wanted to itemize the game, or was it so you didn't have people doing really passive activities in the game?

I think every game I've ever played, I've always been a little bit upset with how blacksmithing / weaponsmithing works, in that they never give me the end results that I really want. A lot of games there'll be the discussion whether crafted stuff should be better than the stuff I get elsewhere. Not necessarily even high-end content, but just my normal, going about my business doing quests kind of thing. I don't remember ever playing a game where I thought that mix was "right". Personally, I'd love to put in a system where you could do crafting and that was the pinnacle of stuff in the game - but there are other aspects to take into account. I'm not sure the main reason why we didn't do it. From my point of view, being in charge of the team that had to do it, we know we have this awesome exploratory system of apothecary and Talisman-making. We have the associated gathering skills, and we just want to knock those out the park first. We'll give you the tools that impact your initial RvR experience the most, early on in your lifetime in the game. After that, we'll see what happens. We're probably going to be around for ten years, it's going to be five or six expansions ... we've got to hold something back!

[Malorel]

I think that Mythic needs to make Scavenging and Butchering more appealing. Currently, from what I can see, it looks like they are barely helpful to the current crafts.

What I would recommend would be that either you are allowed to take two gathering professions, or that they come up with two more crafts that correspond with scavenging and butchering.

[Azharok]

I think that Mythic needs to make Scavenging and Butchering more appealing. Currently, from what I can see, it looks like they are barely helpful to the current crafts.

What I would recommend would be that either you are allowed to take two gathering professions, or that they come up with two more crafts that correspond with scavenging and butchering.


Butcher = cooking ? (who said WoW ?)

Scavenging = Taxidermist ! Now that is a profession !

[Malorel]

Taxidermy would be fun, and interesting, but it really doesn't help toward the war effort.

the cooking could be helpful, especially if you could use it as lures for animals and/or career pets. I'm not saying that it would completely make the pets useless, but distract them a bit from what they are supposed to be doing.

[DunRaven]

Extra Crafting professions suggestions :-

1) Scrolls/Artifacts - one-use consumables to enhance or effect a character/area etc.
2) Engineering - create or upgrade siege weapons and special gadgets etc.

[logicalmayhem]

after thinking about this more a better solution is going to be much simpler

1 crafting 2 gathering.

so you can chose either crafting profession and its skill and then either scavenging or butchery.

then simply for expansions you just have 2 add professions in pairs so a Crafting and the gathering skill that matches it

usaly when anything is this simple and el agent it just makes sense