Which type of healing do you think will work best

[Fiale]

At the moment we have the information that our masteries will be (of course still subject to change)

- Path 1 (Direct damage and heals)
- Path 2 (HoTs and DoTs)
- Path 3 (AoE damage and heals)

The three mastery paths include offensive and defensive elements all within each line. What you're choosing along the paths are what kind of spells you'll be specializing in. One offers many bonuses to direct debuffs, direct damage, direct heals. one path offers Damage over Time, Heal over time abilities. The final path focuses on AoE attacks and heals.

Which do you think will be best on a RvR battlefield encounter, everytime I imagine myself going down one path I think no no no AOE is the way to go - would make mass encouters easier, no no no DoTs and HoTs damage/heal lots of people regardless of area, no no no direct heals and damage - bigger numbers, bigger quick health recovery, no no no - you get the picture.

Which way do you think you will choose ?

[Drav3n]

Depends. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.

Path 1 - Direct Damage and Heals
I think this will be the most effective overall, just because it's damage or heals instantly after you cast it. No waiting for your hp bar to build up. Problem with this is the cast time, more susceptible to interrupts and delays, as well as LoS while you cast. I imagine there being a fast small heal to a slow greater heal, whatever fits the purpose...a good healer will have the intelligence and game sense to decide which to use.

Path 2 - HoTs and DoTs
Instant cast times that heal or damage over time, what's there not to like? Well, there's the problem of not doing all 300 hp of either heal or damage all at once. You gotta wait for the ticks to cause the damage or heal the player. As a source of damage, it puts pressure on healers but isn't an effective way of bursting someone down and much easier to heal through. In past experience it works well in 1v1 situations especially against classes who can't heal themselves, but since WAR is group-play I don't see this path making big impacts unless you're whole group is made for it.

Path 3 - AoE
Most potential to be imbalanced. Only other game I've seen an AoE support class was Lineage 2, and it worked pretty damn well. Large heals as well as damage can change battles pretty quickly. Usually with AoE skills, cooldowns are rather long but we still have a long ways to see.

I'll be experimenting with all three paths, but I really see myself going primarily with Path 1. The faster you take an enemy down or take an ally out of danger, the better your group's chances are of winning. I see it doing the most damage/healing at a given time, AoE sure but in order to be balanced I really can't see the damage/healing potential being as efficient as directs. It's whatever though, way too early to know--it's probably going to be a mixture of all three paths.

P.S. - Sorry if it's a bit confusing, I'm just mashing buttons while watching the EUROCUP!

[Fiale]

Yeah the AOE one is tricky - if the spells are balanced for 4 or 5 people being affected on average then the AoE spells can be overly costly if you only have 1 or 2 enemies in range and will make you less effective - of course you then have the other side of the coin that if you can find 5 or more people within the effect area then you get a very good return on the costs of the spell.... it makes going AoE a little risky. Its the gamblers choice, big pay offs or bust.... but probbaly a fun way to go if you want to take the risk.

[Vizage]

I love dots and hots.

[Skellyten]

I disagree on the HoT/DoT. Funny enough I had a big discussion on this with my guild and the main guy basicly went with what you're saying.

You have to remember specing in something doesn't mean you dont get to use your DH and AoE heals. It just means they're not as effective. Also You are speculating that HoTs wont stack. Which if they don't then you are right but I highly doubt they will go that way since they worked so well in WoW.

I do believe for big RvR AoE will came out on top but I'm pretty sure all three will work quite well except AoE on hard hitting bosses maybe even HoTs.

[Drav3n]

I disagree on the HoT/DoT. Funny enough I had a big discussion on this with my guild and the main guy basicly went with what you're saying.

You have to remember specing in something doesn't mean you dont get to use your DH and AoE heals. It just means they're not as effective. Also You are speculating that HoTs wont stack. Which if they don't then you are right but I highly doubt they will go that way since they worked so well in WoW.

I do believe for big RvR AoE will came out on top but I'm pretty sure all three will work quite well except AoE on hard hitting bosses maybe even HoTs.

If you're referring to my post, I'm fully aware that HoTs/DoTs will probably be stackable. It's still easier to heal/damage through than direct instant damage.

[Skellyten]

I'm sure specing HoT's will still have Instant DH. I also will point out instant heals are usually on timers so they should only be used when needed. That being said the direct healing line will find it challenging trying to keep up their whole group from AoE attack atleast I believe it will be.

[Drav3n]

I'm sure specing HoT's will still have Instant DH. I also will point out instant heals are usually on timers so they should only be used when needed. That being said the direct healing line will find it challenging trying to keep up their whole group from AoE attack atleast I believe it will be.

Nothing experienced MMO players haven't dealt with before. Like I said, it's probably gonna be some mixture of all three paths to be a totally effective RP.

[Arnalerix]

I will probably spec primarily in HoTs and DoTs, and if I have points left over, then pick up direct Heals/Damage.

Mainly cause HoTs and DoTs amuse me.

[Dunhill]

Im probably going to mostly spec the DD/DH path. That way i can heal big and nuke at the same time.

[Fiale]

I have decided to go with a few points in HoTs and Dots (to give a buffer and for those pesky people at range) and put the majority in AOE heals and Damage and see how it pans out :D Its not a stlye of play I have ever used before in any game and it intrigues me... a AOE healer / feel my love.........

[Keramon]

Definately direct healing will be the number one choice for me.
My secondary will most likely be AOE. This will be mainly to counter the effects of AOE dots and AOE damage spells in large scale encounters.

I think HOTS will be very effective in PvE however, where you have a single tank taking much of the damage.

[Slade]

I think the trickiest of the bunch is the AOE Heals.

This has the potential, I think, to be the most beneficial.
The trick is staying alive.

Sure the healer needs to stay alive for Direct Heals as well, but if they are ABOUT to die, they can always throw out a strong heal here or there and still help out-
With AOE heals (and HoTs, though those are more subjective)

The power of a AOE Runey will be in the strength of the tank guarding him/her.
If they can keep the Runey alive- and the rest of the group doesn't run out of whatever the AOE range is- it should be great fun.

Plus- this will let you have a LOT OF power behind these AOEs- which are mostly just shoot off and forget about I'd imagine- while still having your basic direct heals you can concentrate onto those who need.

[Darkchapter]

Dream come true though - finally finding a healer archetype with 3 different trees for 3 different ways to heal!

I really hope it's as good as it sounds :)

In terms of effectiveness, I can't really see the aoe healer being much good for small group PvP, however I can see the HoT healer being best for playing with heavily armored high HP teammates in small group PvP as you can cast hots then run off and kite or go out of line of sight.

If you're playing with squishies in small group PvP then I guess you'll need some big direct heals, and be able to spam them to keep them up.

I can see me, and many other players respeccing often to suit the event.

As for really big RvR - I think all 3 will be wanted, in fact if you had to take 3 Rune Priests in a raid, you'd take one of each type - so you'd get hots up always, aoe heals to counter aoe damage, and direct heals to handle spike damage on squishies.

Begging you Mythic - don't mess these trees up, a lot of players are counting on Rune Priest to give us an advanced Healing meta-game :)

[Vyker]

Drav, I think your estimation of hots/dots is possibly short sighted unless you have in game beta knowledge.

A couple aspects of gameplay that are unknown could dramatically improve the value of hots/dots. For one, cast times on spells. If hots/dots are instant cast while direct damage and healing have cast times, that could dramatically change the outlook. If you will need to constantly be on the move to best utilize some abilities and/or to avoid damage, having instant cast spells are of great value. Additionally, spell knockback and/or interruption would also greatly affect the effectiveness of your heals. Finally, time spent in cc means that you could be interrupted by a stun or some other form of crowd control. An instant heal/damage ability will be much more useful in this situtation even if it is only a hot/dot. Of course, thats not to say that hots/dots will have more instant cast options than direct heal or damage, its just something that would affect the judgement dramatically.

Finally, there is the heal/ap factor. In many games, hots are more mana efficient for heals since they are done over time. Now, usually that mana efficiency is only helpful if all the ticks heal for their full amount, but sometimes they can be more mana efficient missing a few also. Most dots follow the same lines but you only miss damage if your target dies so there is even more incentive there. If ap turns out to be a serious consideration for char, and I STRONGLY believe it will be, then this could be a huge boon to the hot/dot char plan.

In general, the benefits of hots/dots are strongly dependent on the level of burst damage in the game. If there is a high level of burst damage, then you usually must rely on burst healing. If it is not so easy a task to kill someone, hots/dots become all the more valuable.

I do, however, agree with your assessments of both aoe and direct options that you described.

[PNasty]

I think the type of healing used depends on the situation. For example you are an RP and you come across a Hammerer fighting against 2 opponents, the hammerer is at 80% HP, here you would use HOT since you wouldn't get the full effect of a DH since his HP is pretty high, and AOE heal is unnecessary since you only need to heal 1 ally.

If your ally is at a dangerously low HP percentage it would be very critical to use DH.

And if there are multiple allies AOE heal.

All in all I think HOT would be the best option since you can stack it on one ally (if possible) for a DH substitute or you can spam it on multiple allies as an AOE heal substitute.(since HOT will most likely be shorter cast time as opposed to the DH)

[Grumble]

Im kinda leaning towards AOE heal/damage. However, the effectiveness of the AOE heal will depend on both the tendency of your group to stick together, and the Rune Priests willingness to enter into the middle of a fight.

The AOE damage just sounds like a good way to farm Renown. And lets face it, we probably wont be doing a LOT of damage compared to the other classes, so might as well tag a lot of enemies. =)

[Fontaine]

I think direct healing will work the best.

From what I've gathered, we are going to be the most healing based class. That means we should have the most powerful heals.

Imo, I would rather have the more damage oriented healers throwing up their instant AoE or HoTs, while we chill in the back casting our powerful direct heals.

[Xayella]

100% agree with Fontaine

I'd rather overheal when it's not critical, than underheal when it is

[Vizage]

I think direct healing will work the best.

From what I've gathered, we are going to be the most healing based class. That means we should have the most powerful heals.

Imo, I would rather have the more damage oriented healers throwing up their instant AoE or HoTs, while we chill in the back casting our powerful direct heals.

I agree, with the disclaimer that you might need a second person with HOT specialization to maximize your single person healing. AOE heals in my opinion are going to be weaker, since it is soooo easy to make an AOE ability overpowered.

[Fontaine]

AOE heals in my opinion are going to be weaker, since it is soooo easy to make an AOE ability overpowered.

Agreed, I really can see AoE heals being OP. I wouldn't mind one 3 second casted one on a 15 second cool down that could potentially save my group.

But on the flip side, I don't want to have an OP spell and then Mythic takes the giant nerf mace and destroys not only that spell, but some others as well.

[Fiale]

AoE spells are normally just balanced around what they feel will be a average player/heal ratio.

The basic AOE heal affecting one person will be weaker than a Direct heal by a long shot, if two people are involved it will be a lot weaker than a direct heal, if three people it will be a little weaker however the Heal / costs value starts matching or overtaking at 4 people plus.
disclaimer all figures / estimates are just that.


So whilst people speccing AoE will often be weaker (or under powered) to thier direct heal counterparts in small scale battles (or where few people have taken damage) they becaome stronger at large scale encounters (or over powered) to their direct heal counterparts in large scale battles.

However is that not the idea, claiming a AoE healers heal OP overlooks that they maybe Under powered elsewhere, you can spec as you wish and heal as you wish - I just hope there will be no HoTs / AoE / Direct Heal Rune priest coparing their specs and saying others are OP comapred to the spec they chose (the "its not fair" comments ) we need to remember the mechanics and bigger picture.

[Fontaine]

From what I've seen from mastery tress, I've noticed that it's not multi-branched.

So lets say you wanted to spec into the "healing" tree, you would just click add one point to the tree, and it would put the point there. Then you would just keep adding up to 15 points in the tree. It's very linear. So what we may be seeing is full 15/15 in healing, and then throwing the other points in, probably, the debuff/buff category.

If this doesn't make sense, say so, because my thoughts were all over the place in this post.

[Fiale]

From what I've seen from mastery tress, I've noticed that it's not multi-branched.

So lets say you wanted to spec into the "healing" tree, you would just click add one point to the tree, and it would put the point there. Then you would just keep adding up to 15 points in the tree. It's very linear. So what we may be seeing is full 15/15 in healing, and then throwing the other points in, probably, the debuff/buff category.

If this doesn't make sense, say so, because my thoughts were all over the place in this post.

AH I see, the trees have changed since those original ones. The three trees are now

Diect Healing/Damage improving direct healing and damage spellls
AOE Healing/Damage " AOE " "
OT Healing/Damage " over time " "

so you can specialise in the way you wish to heal/damage to suit your playstyle, each of course has the advantage over others in different situations.

[Fontaine]

Can you show me where you found this?

I believe you, but I just want to see for myself =D.

[Fiale]

Partly from here (also the zealot discussion forums).

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41821

It also seems to be common knowledge from a lot of people that it has changed (I am guesing information drifting down from people more in the know than us ;) ).

[Fontaine]

Ah ok, my mistake.

Do you know if the trees are still linear like I said, or if you can choose where you want to go with them?

It would sort of suck if I had to waste points on a direct damage spell, in order to improve that direct healing spell that I initially wanted to improve.

[Fiale]

From what we see it seems that a point will increase all spells of that type (DD / OT or AoE) with some specific improvements to key spells, and with some key spells/abilities also available to unlock.... however we start getting into speculation beyond this. Hopefully RP information will be available soon as they have been re-doing the Ocr v Dwarf areas so hopefully we will know more.

[Vizage]

If I had to guess, dealing damage will be the way to level up, and maybe a re-spec at the end of each tier to help with the big stuff.

[Beard Face]

Some things to take into consideration:


~ Other healers in the game. With other healers ( both specced differently, or a different class all together ) inevitably having different healing styles based on class development as well as player decided, I think a good idea to keep in consideration is what will runepriests have that other healers don't have, or are not good at, and is that viable for RvR. Also, maybe the runepriest is the king of HoT's ( Druid vs Paladin in WoW ), or they could be the king of AoE healing ( Shaman vs Paladin in WoW ) respectively.

~ What type of damage is being dealt. Even if you say AoE healing is the best for massive, group based RvR, who is to say that the amount of damage being done to your group can be negated just by AoE heals alone if they are supposed to be weaker than direct heals. Man variables come into play as maybe a situation would occur where a few people are taking direct damage from some of the single target DPS classes ( think more than 1 witch elf attacking more than one ally ), vs just taking damage from AoE type DPS classes. Also, who is to say that HoTs can't be effective? In WoW HoTs were some of the most annoying heals in the game in PvP, in some cases it negated the damage you were trying to do, if the heal was great enough, and it would leave the healer to attend to other players. I am completely over WoW but some of the charachteristics of HoTs in that game were very nice ( turning a hot into a direct heal on a cool down ).

I will probably be speccing into full HoTs/DoTs as HoTs are very nice while leveling up, as kind of a set it and forget it type heal, and the same goes for DoTs. This spec is probably greatly viable for RvR as well.

While it may not have the big boom of a direct heal, I'm sure that if you can multi-task very efficently with HoTs it could very well change the eb and flow of a battle, but not be as noticible to other players as a direct heal woul be.

Anyways, I guess my point is this is something we will have to actually see and experience so we can see what works best against different variables, and also see where the Rune Priest shines.

[Kimmurial]

I may go AoE heal/damage if its well done, hopefully i can cast both from a distance !

I really like being a healer in WoW, i just hated the click on a single target and cast a single heal on it (Paladin). If i can AoE heal/buff effienctly, its gonna be super fun

I hope each tree gets some good buff spells to

-Kim

[Cedia]

I may go AoE heal/damage if its well done, hopefully i can cast both from a distance !

I really like being a healer in WoW, i just hated the click on a single target and cast a single heal on it (Paladin). If i can AoE heal/buff effienctly, its gonna be super fun

I hope each tree gets some good buff spells to

-Kim


I agree, if I end up playing the RP I will go the AoE route. I find it kind of amazing that they are even making a whack-a-mole tree at all.

[Fraxture]

Hmmm, Path 1 is the old fashion way of MMO healers, a known, and tested method. i assume it would be medium in damage and healing since it is direct.

Path 2 is the Druid way in MMO, great heals, with higher healing and damage scores than Path 1 for example, but again, over time. So great aginst those that can't heal themselves or allies that can take the hits while the hit points tick back.

Path 3 is a nice option. I see this having lower values, but of course with more targets. I see healing and damage ceilings being lower here, but with the benefit of hitting many comrades or enemies and helping to widdle them down.

I think they would have to follow some form of balance here, otherwise everyone would go with AoE if they provide the same amount damage done or damage healed as path 1.

Since the wife and I will be playing, and she wants to be an Ironbreaker. I will go with Path 1, since we usually play as a couple more than any other combination.

[Kimmurial]

Hmmm, Path 1 is the old fashion way of MMO healers, a known, and tested method. i assume it would be medium in damage and healing since it is direct.

Path 2 is the Druid way in MMO, great heals, with higher healing and damage scores than Path 1 for example, but again, over time. So great aginst those that can't heal themselves or allies that can take the hits while the hit points tick back.

Path 3 is a nice option. I see this having lower values, but of course with more targets. I see healing and damage ceilings being lower here, but with the benefit of hitting many comrades or enemies and helping to widdle them down.

I think they would have to follow some form of balance here, otherwise everyone would go with AoE if they provide the same amount damage done or damage healed as path 1.

Since the wife and I will be playing, and she wants to be an Ironbreaker. I will go with Path 1, since we usually play as a couple more than any other combination.

Aye, AoE heal will be the weakest for sure (amount healed), and like you said, i hope the balance it well tho

-Kim

[seirios]

for 1v1 i'd go dots/hots
for pve direct
for RvR aoe

prolly aoe. if i would roll a runepriest, since i'm realy undecided yet

[Hildegard]

At this point, I'm thinking AoE with Direct Heals/Damage as a secondary tree. In RVR, where you will ideally be more in the thick of things and everyone is targeting you (the healer) no matter where you are, I'm thinking that AoE heals will be much more effective. They were great in DAOC RvR. Standing in the distance casting heals is a sure way to get a knife in the back or an arrow in the throat, and there's nothing that your melee friends can do to help you. And in the chaos that is PvP, it's a lot harder to keep everyone up by throwing direct heals, no matter how powerful they are.

If someone is thinking to play more PvE than RvR, then HoT and DH are probably better choices. If heals pull aggro, then you're just asking for trouble. RvR will be a completely different matter.

[Datura]

The first path is the one that will probably work best for me. I've been able to pull off some impressive feats, in previous games, when using a similar system.

I've never been too fond of hots/dots but the AoE method may win me over depending on how this game turns out. Only time will tell.

[Exacerberus]

[...]Path 2 - HoTs and DoTs
Instant cast times that heal or damage over time, what's there not to like? Well, there's the problem of not doing all 300 hp of either heal or damage all at once. You gotta wait for the ticks to cause the damage or heal the player. As a source of damage, it puts pressure on healers but isn't an effective way of bursting someone down and much easier to heal through. In past experience it works well in 1v1 situations especially against classes who can't heal themselves, but since WAR is group-play I don't see this path making big impacts unless you're whole group is made for it.[...]
[...]If someone is thinking to play more PvE than RvR, then HoT and DH are probably better choices.[...]
"Father, forgive them... they don't know what they are" saying... <--- fixed ;)
a wise super-"man" once said...

[Oathbreaker]

I think it depends on what classes you expect to be healing mostly.

A tank will benefit more from 2 or 3 healers hotting him up then getting too big direct heals all the time. DPS however needs to be topped up fast, so direct heals will be most usefull for them. The AoE healing is good when multiple targets are taking damage (obviously) so probably excellent healing skill for the choke points in siege fights.

[Exacerberus]

I think it depends on what classes you expect to be healing mostly.

A tank will benefit more from 2 or 3 healers hotting him up then getting too big direct heals all the time. DPS however needs to be topped up fast, so direct heals will be most useful for them.[...]HoT Masteries actually have insta-shields, at least if RP mirrors the Zealot... The Zealot one (http://warhammerinfo.com/db/c/index.php?switch=Zealot) has also a HoT effect that starts as soon as the Shield effect wears off:
Veil of Chaos (http://warhammerinfo.com/db/index.php?req=s&val=Veil%20of%20Chaos) - "Enhanced by Path of Witchcraft" For the next 10 seconds, your target will absorb a large amount of incoming damage. When the effect ends, they will regain some health. 40 AP 100 ft Instant Cast 20s CD
So, in troubled situations: Shield --> fast DD --> HoT --> big DD
Not that hard to do, I guess...

[Oathbreaker]

HoT Masteries actually have insta-shields, at least if RP mirrors the Zealot... The Zealot one (http://warhammerinfo.com/db/c/index.php?switch=Zealot) has also a HoT effect that starts as soon as the Shield effect wears off:
Veil of Chaos (http://warhammerinfo.com/db/index.php?req=s&val=Veil%20of%20Chaos) - "Enhanced by Path of Witchcraft" For the next 10 seconds, your target will absorb a large amount of incoming damage. When the effect ends, they will regain some health. 40 100 ft Instant Cast 20s CD
So, in troubled situations: Shield --> fast DD --> HoT --> big DD
Not that hard to do, I guess...

Oh I don't doubt that hotspecced rp's/zealots will still be able to burst heal a squishie (or themselves), but they'll be inevitably better at healing those squishies if they were specced for direct heals. If that isn't the case, then the direct heal tree would become redundant as far as I can see.

AoE heal and Direct Heal might also be more popular due to contribution points. HoTs often dont have the opportunity to be fully used up. The player either dies or gets a big direct heal.

[aloris]

I would say it mostly depends on the situation, if you're in a huge 200 vs 200 fight you're going to want AoE healing to get everyone, if its medium sized probably Hots so you can keep everyone getting healed at the same time but not be too strenuous on yourself and GCDs, And for small skirmishes, direct healing since you can focus on who is getting the most damage easier and keep them up since the focus fire probably won't be as bad.

[Exacerberus]

Oh I don't doubt that hotspecced rp's/zealots will still be able to burst heal a squishie (or themselves), but they'll be inevitably better at healing those squishies if they were specced for direct heals. If that isn't the case, then the direct heal tree would become redundant as far as I can see.

AoE heal and Direct Heal might also be more popular due to contribution points. HoTs often dont have the opportunity to be fully used up. The player either dies or gets a big direct heal./bow_behind_superior_knowledge :p
So I guess a direct heal that overheals a MDPS is far more efficient than a HoT that heals him whilst the target is hit, allowing you to switch target for a couple of seconds and throw a HoT or an AoE before going back to him and heal a 'lil more, uh??
Look, I'm neither stating that DD_Heal is faint at all, nor that HoTs > DD_Heals, I'm just trying to tell some of you guys (and girls, ofc ;)) that you clearly don't actually know what you're saying, and yes, it's almost a crime...
BTW, since AoE healing is indeed great, yet is not that much efficient in terms of AP (yay, it costs a lot of AP) I guess I would spec a RP 17-19MP HoTs/6-8MP AoE_Heals. So HoTs/Buffs/Shield spamming + AoE on the mates whilst the HoTs are still on them... ;)

[Oathbreaker]

/bow_behind_superior_knowledge :p
So I guess a direct heal that overheals a MDPS is far more efficient than a HoT that heals him whilst the target is hit, allowing you to switch target for a couple of seconds and throw a HoT or an AoE before going back to him and heal a 'lil more, uh??
Look, I'm neither stating that DD_Heal is faint at all, nor that HoTs > DD_Heals, I'm just trying to tell some of you guys (and girls, ofc ;)) that you clearly don't actually know what you're saying, and yes, it's almost a crime...
BTW, since AoE healing is indeed great, yet is not that much efficient in terms of AP (yay, it costs a lot of AP) I guess I would spec a RP 17-19MP HoTs/6-8MP AoE_Heals. So HoTs/Buffs/Shield spamming + AoE on the mates whilst the HoTs are still on them... ;)

I'm assuming that you mean that I (and perhaps some others) clearly don't know what I'm saying right? And the reason for that conclusion is because I prefer direct heals on a non-tank player taking damage? Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear enough. When a non-tank is being focussed, that person will die quite fast no?. So how exactly is a hot more effective in such a situation then a direct heal?

Yes I know that direct healing tends to lead to overhealing, but so is hotting a target that subsequently gets healed to full by another healer. Who's to say that a direct healing specced runepriest can't do what you just suggested? Chuck a direct heal on the witch hunter, then throw a heal on someone else to then return to the WH?

In your example you're assuming the damage will be come in regular intervals. In PvP/RvR good damage dealers will burst their targets.

A def tank will generally not be burst down.
A mage class will generally always be burst down.
RP/Zealot + Mdps should be a mix (depending on the circumstances).

If a def tank generally wont die in a few seconds, then hots from a few healers should suffice most of the time. Meaning 2 or 3 Zealots should be able to keep 5+ BO's/Chosen up.

If you see a Bright Wizard being chased by 2 witch elves, you know that you need to be ready to spamheal him.

If you see a fellow Rune Priest being attacked by 1 marauder, you check his buffs first. If he's being protected by an Ironbreaker, then hotting the RP up should probably be sufficient.

Enough examples to explain my line of thinking? If my logic is flawed, I'll gladly be enlightened :)

[logicalmayhem]

i say burst single target heals for tanks and some dots and aoe for evryone else

so u want a shaman and a DOK/zellot in your party pretty much

[Exacerberus]

I'm assuming that you mean that I (and perhaps some others) clearly don't know what I'm saying right?You couldn't have put it in better words: you're assuming. :-|

Oathbreaker: "Enough examples to explain my line of thinking?If my logic is flawed, I'll gladly be enlightened"
Exa: "Look, I'm neither stating that DD_Heal is faint at all, nor that HoTs > DD_Heals [...]"

Mmh, the discussion is heating up a 'lil too much here...

Oathbreaker: "And the reason for that conclusion is because I prefer direct heals on a non-tank player taking damage? [...] Who's to say that a direct healing specced runepriest can't do what you just suggested?"
Actually no one. In fact, as you can check (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42153&page=2) by yourself, no one stated it. Me, not for sure... :-|
Yet, I should add something on the topic, but since Vyker already stated it well enough in just this very thread, I'll simply quote him:[...]A couple aspects of gameplay that are unknown could dramatically improve the value of hots/dots. For one, cast times on spells. If hots/dots are instant cast while direct damage and healing have cast times, that could dramatically change the outlook. If you will need to constantly be on the move to best utilize some abilities and/or to avoid damage, having instant cast spells are of great value. Additionally, spell knockback and/or interruption would also greatly affect the effectiveness of your heals. Finally, time spent in cc means that you could be interrupted by a stun or some other form of crowd control. An instant heal/damage ability will be much more useful in this situtation even if it is only a hot/dot.[...]
Oathbreaker: "In your example you're assuming damage will be come in regular intervals. In PvP/RvR good damage dealers will...
[...]
...most of the time. Meaning 2 or 3 Zealots should be able to keep 5+ BO's/Chosen up."

I partly agree with your analysis. Yet in terms of survivability MDPS < RDPS because ok, they do have some more armor, yet they're MDPS, so usually first lines in fights, then the get both meleed and nuked by afar; RDPS, one has to get the jump on them before meleeing, if he actually gets there alive (focus-firing kills a lot...)
Also, if not CCed, healers can cure themselves, I do suppose.

Oathbreaker: "If you see a Bright Wizard being chased by 2 witch elves, you know that you need to be ready to spamheal him.[...]"

No way. :-|
Just no way.
"If I see a Bright Wizard being chased by 2 Witch Elves", I "know" that being "ready to spamheal him" it's just ops!!, can't break Forum Rules (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/announcement.php?f=63)...
:-? well, it...... wouldn't be useful at all, since WE/WH do have the highest burst damage in-game, so even spamming the your DD_Heals (or any other kind of heals) simply won't keep him alive more than 7 seconds at most.
......So, what I'd try to do in this desperate situation would be just throw the AoE_RooT/Knockback on 20 sec CD this class will surely be provided of + any other suitable CC, spam a Shield + HoT on the BW and scream like hell: "Hey you IronBreaker fellow, taunt the guyz asap, and beat them off a 'lil!! Hello Shadow Warrior!, can you actually Whirling Pin/Takedown them, then DPS you too?? Cause, you see, I'll be spamming some heals, yet we do need to CC, and fassst!!!!" And when trying to yell this on my mic, I guess the BW would have died anyway some seconds before I had finished screamin'...

So?? Did I won any candies? Where are they? No candies!??
This makes me really a Sad Panda...
?

[Oathbreaker]

You sure like to over excessively abuse the quote function Exacerberus. You could have just answered me straight, but no. Your exuberant quoting and misuse of text colors just make me stop reading after the first line though :(

If you feel you have something of value to say about the topic though, feel free to reply in a normal legible manner.

[Exacerberus]

You sure like to over excessively abuse the quote function Exacerberus.Like this:?:You could have just answered me straight, but no. Your exuberant quoting and misuse of text colors just make me stop reading after the first line though :(
If you feel you've something of value to say about the topic though, feel free to reply in a normal legible manner.I had, and I stated it, me... :cool:
If you actually can reply, please, just do it. :-|
Happy now?
Because you see, after flaming a 'lil too much, this actually isn't that good excuse to avoid confrontation...
I wasn't the first one to throw the stone into the water. Yet it seems I'll be the last... :lol:

[intetnetrage]

i think 2 will be the strongest because its over time but its not going to be as usefully in a pinch as path 1, path 3 will be weakest but you can heal whole groups which be good in rvr i dont think either will be more powerful the any other, it seems to matter more one what you are doing. but in rvr a path 1 will be best for keeping your flag guy alive.

[Hildegard]

Quote abuse aside, black text on a black background guarantees that no one reads what you've written.

My understanding is that you'll have all three types of heals, specializing will only make you better in one tree or another, and give you a few extra spells. I could be wrong, but with that being the case, I'm thinking that a balance of the three schools will make one a good all-around healer. For RvR the DHs will be harder to use accurately, HoTs and AoE's will serve you better. If one plans to do a lot of PvE, then the DH's will come in much handier.

I want to see how powerful the AoE heals are before I decide, but they sound like they'd be incredibly useful in RvR combat, especially if it's as chaotic as it seems in the videos.

[MrBoo]

well seeing how it takes around 12-15 seconds for most hot to get the full effect, i think it would make more sense to go for direct healing. a bright wizard can kill most people in 10-12 seconds which means you wont have enough time for HoTing.

and no more black text :confused::confused:

[Exacerberus]

Quote abuse aside, black text on a black background guarantees that no one reads what you've written.Weird enough indeed, yet some may change their opinion...


07-22-2008, 06:05 AM[...]For RvR the DHs will be harder to use accurately, HoTs and AoE's will serve you better. If one plans to do a lot of PvE, then the DH's will come in much handier.[...]
08-08-2008, 03:59 AM[...]If someone is thinking to play more PvE than RvR, then HoT and DH are probably better choices. If heals pull aggro, then you're just asking for trouble. RvR will be a completely different matter.:cool:

...by "themselves". ;)
Indeed, playing always the part of the villain, I got many kicks in the teeth; actually they have grown so strong that now people usually gets harmed by themselves, when trying to kick...
Yet they always seem to get the apples I throw around... :|
well seeing how it takes around 12-15 seconds for most hot to get the full effect, i think it would make more sense to go for direct healing. a bright wizard can kill most people in 10-12 seconds which means you wont have enough time for HoTing.Did you mind to read the Zealot's Veil of Chaos spell description I posted above?
It's is an uber insta-shield, after throwing that you have some time to choose the heals you're gonna spam, even in desperate situations. Yes, it's an "OH, $h17!!" spell.
"and no more black text :confused:"
'Bout the "black text on a black background", I've been warned about that at least a dozen times, and don't care at all.
Anyway, it's just because I use the "Testing" skin in these boards, since I don't want to loose my sight even for the colors: usually stupid posts are way enough havoc for farseeing eyes...
(Anyway, if you weren't aware of it yet: Edit CP --> Settings & Options --> Edit Otpions --> Miscellaneous Options --> Forum Skin -the testing one is kinda different from the others for a couple of features, a part the color...-)
Indeed customization options are there for people to customize, sometimes even for others complaining about it...

Kinda off-topic, yet...:
08-08-2008, 02:09 AM
MrBoo, these days you're posting in 1/2 of the threads where I actually post, too many times stating random stuff. I kinda feel chased...
An' I'm getting quite annoyed 'bout you, I must tell you...
08-08-2008, 04:17 AM <--- 1st one (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49397)
08-08-2008, 04:19 AM <--- 2nd one (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39385&page=2)
08-08-2008, 04:28 AM <--- 3rd one (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/member.php?u=25449)
...just to refer to the latest ones... :|
Yet, you may try to type my name properly at least once...

Guys (n' dolls), I warned you, just stay out of my teeth: it's not that I'm gonna bite. But they've become uber-sharp by themselves, you need indeed big feet an' big boots to kick properly.
Oki:?:

[MrBoo]

the shield will likely be taken down by one bolt from a sorcerer however. and then if havent gotten in that big heal yet, you wont be able to because it is pushed back to the begiing each time you are hit, even from normal staff attacks. then since you would have no shield you would have to start spamming your direct heals, causing you to run out of mana because they arent mana effecient for you :confused:

[MrBoo]

theres also the fact that since you will always be healing at least one more person, if you use your big shield on that target and then the sorcerer starts nuking you, your pretty much screwed unless you have some other CDs to use.

[Drav3n]

I can't wait till NDA drops. :)

[Vyker]

well seeing how it takes around 12-15 seconds for most hot to get the full effect, i think it would make more sense to go for direct healing. a bright wizard can kill most people in 10-12 seconds which means you wont have enough time for HoTing.

and no more black text :confused::confused:

I am confused. A hot takes 12-15 secs and it takes 10-12 secs to kill someone. That means you SHOULD use hots. Based on my experience in other games and the way they have implemented hots vs. direct heals, by the time 10-12 seconds have gone by, you have probably recouped 2-3 nukes in health meaning that you are healing faster than they are dpsing and doing it MUCH more mana efficiently. Its when ppl die in 3-6 seconds that you shouldn't hot. When ppl die in 3-6 seconds, thats when you must hit them with those moderate cast (1.5-3 sec) direct heals to keep them up.

With the data you have, I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusions you have.

[MrBoo]

the HoT would have healed around 500 out of your 1500 health over 15 seconds, which is just one nuke (3 second cast)from a bw/sorcerer which means that the only way you could outheal them with HoTs would be to use your direct heals, which wouldnt be very mana effecient. the average 2 second cast quick heal for a runepriest heals around 300-400, which is far more health.

[MrBoo]

we need confirmation from exacberus IMO

[Exacerberus]

the shield will likely be taken down by one bolt from a sorcerer however. [...] :confused:I'm not sure about the exact interpretation of the following (underlined) part:
Veil of Chaos (http://warhammerinfo.com/db/index.php?req=s&val=Veil%20of%20Chaos) - "Enhanced by Path of Witchcraft" For the next 10 seconds, your target will absorb a large amount of incoming damage. When the effect ends, they will regain some health. 40 AP 100 ft Instant Cast 20s CD

Does the underlined part state that this shield...


will wear off after a set amount of DMG has been prevented
it will mitigate the incoming DMG for the next 10 seconds

:?: Anyone know that?? :roll:

And MrBoo, please EDIT rather than double posting...
Also, I've got to tell you that, your random abuse of the " :confused: " emote is quite annoying...

[MrBoo]

I'm not sure about the exact interpretation of the following (underlined) part:
Veil of Chaos (http://warhammerinfo.com/db/index.php?req=s&val=Veil%20of%20Chaos) - "Enhanced by Path of Witchcraft" For the next 10 seconds, your target will absorb a large amount of incoming damage. When the effect ends, they will regain some health. 40 AP 100 ft Instant Cast 20s CD

Does the underlined part state that this shield...


will wear off after a set amount of DMG has been prevented
it will mitigate the incoming DMG for the next 10 seconds
:?: Anyone know that?? :roll:

And MrBoo, please EDIT rather than double posting...
Also, I've got to tell you that, your random abuse of the " :confused: " emote is quite annoying...

Off topic maybe,but using this diagram, i think we can assume that to make an actual heal over time build you will need to spec into aoes becuase there are some heal over times you can pick up in there.

[Drav3n]

we need confirmation from exacberus IMO

No one other than devs can confirm anything. It's all speculation until NDA drops. ;)

But if I get it right, you're thinking HoTs will be effective in outhealing DD which will never be the case. HoTs will "tick" for their heal every second or so for a couple hp at a time whereas DD spells do all damage at one time. While it should help, it won't be a lifesaver. You'll probably be able to counter DoTs with Hots, though.

[Exacerberus]

[Removed link]
as you can see, the shield only absorbs 100 damage at this level and heals 25. seeing how a 3 second heal will do 180 health, i think we can easily assume a 1.5 second quick heal will do around 80-100 health. with those 2 seconds you spent casting the shield you could have easily gotten a heal which will probably heal for more than 100 becuase of +healing from your willpower. the average HoT in here is only 100(125with healing) health over 15 seconds.

Off topic maybe,but using this diagram, i think we can assume that to make an actual heal over time build you will need to spec into aoes becuase there are some heal over times you can pick up in there.:roll: Mmh, ofc I won't buzz the Mods about this, yet I guess that this truly breaks NDA... :|
EDIT feature, maybe??
Yet, with all this info, I really don't get how you can't understand what I say, since all this stuff just confirms even more what I stated...
Also please note that speccing into a specific Mastery Path will improve some of its abilities up to +30%.
Veil of Chaos - "Enhanced by Path of Witchcraft" <--- Can't you see :?:

EDIT-note:
As you can say by scrolling up a little, I'm definitely not that kind of guy... :wink:

[MrBoo]

:roll: Mmh, ofc I won't buzz the Mods about this, yet I guess that this truly breaks NDA... :|
EDIT feature, maybe??
Yet, with all this info, I really don't get how you can't understand what I say, since all this stuff just confirms even more what I stated...
Also please note that speccing into a specific Mastery Path will improve some of its abilities up to +30%.
Veil of Chaos - "Enhanced by Path of Witchcraft" <--- Can't you see :?:

but you know, maybe paths just might be balanced. because from what i can tell if you enhanced your flash heal it would have nearly the same effect as the shield would have :o

[Exacerberus]

"Look, I'm neither stating that DD_Heal is faint at all, nor that HoTs > DD_Heals"
"BTW, since AoE healing is indeed great, yet is not that much efficient in terms of AP (yay, it costs a lot of AP) I guess I would spec a RP 17-19MP HoTs/6-8MP AoE_Heals. So HoTs/Buffs/Shield spamming + AoE on the mates whilst the HoTs are still on them..."
Can't you see I EDITed my previous post?
Arguing with someone because I truly can't agree with him doesn't actually make me beforehand a j#+k...

[DwarfMan181]

I think im going to probably going to go with the Path of Gruugni?(direct heals and damage) or the Path of Valerya?(HoTs and DoTs) because the AoE path seems to be pretty complicated and newfangled(lol).

[Cedia]

I'm just worried that the AoE path is group-only. That would make me sad because I love my Defender's AoE heals in City of Heroes. :(

[mihalis00]

I'll be going the AoE path

[Fiale]

AoE is just going to be a new angle and it will be fun to see if it works, I am not sure I have seen a healing specific path/talents ect with a sole improving AOE aspect and it will be interesting to see. Not long to wait now to see how well it works :)

[Oathbreaker]

In AoC all you had basically was AoE healing. It makes doing damage and cc alot easier. I found it immensely boring however, the healing itself was nothing more then an extra health pot. So u basically were doing only cc/dmg. I expect WAR to be different in their AoE healing design, tho I haven't investigated how yet. If they make the AoE healing more powerfull then perhaps they need to be on big cooldowns or the damage/cc needs to go down for balance.

[Bundles]

Personally, I am of the opinion that direct based heals is the way to go, for various reasons.
PVE, big mobs, big damage, big heals required.
PvP assist trains, lots of people gaining up on casters they need help, not hots or AoE heals.
In group situations I've found in other games, that you can bounce from player to player using the "order of importance method" meaning, you don't die, tank don't die, your main CC doesnt die, everyone else, especially that dps in your guild who noone likes, well, they can be ressed in when you feel like it :). Granted, that does not include cast timers etc.

However, as it has been said before, it really depends on the people you group with most, and how they're spec'd. It'd be really dumb to have a warrior priest and a rune preist both having spec in ae heals, would just be a waste.

Although, those staements are just about healing, buffing of course is another huge issue. Depending on how buffing works, an AE buffer/healer could easily dole out more bonuses to the cause then a larger individual buff.

I really don't know what im talking about, just drinking beer and wanting to post.

[Danayl]

I think pretty much any of the trees is going to serve you well wherever you go. You'll still have abilities from the other trees if they're needed, and they'll still be nice n' usable - just not your most efficient spells.

I'm also looking forward to seeing how the different trees affect the buffs/debuffs you get - the way it affects your healing seems fairly obvious but those might throw up a few surprises! :)

[Griswelda]

I wonder if there will be a spreadheal similar to DAOC. A very powerful and very useful group heal that spread the amount healed towards those in the grp that needed it most. If this is included I imagine whatever spec line contains that will be the best for healing hands down.

[Enelysios]

I wonder if there will be a spreadheal similar to DAOC. A very powerful and very useful group heal that spread the amount healed towards those in the grp that needed it most. If this is included I imagine whatever spec line contains that will be the best for healing hands down.

A "smart heal" sounds awesome.

I will be going HoT/DoT I think. The enemy never knows how doomed they are until there is no hope left!