Someone who knows about Archmage lore...

[Simonious]

I was wondering, do Archmages have (or can have) precognition? Mostly just wondering for RP reasons.

[Anonymouswhat]

um i THINK so but thats very hazy in my mind at the moment. i think they can sense somthing very lightly but its not like they can wake up and be like 'oh hey theres a dark elf down the road behind the barrel next to the square looking rock'

[Simonious]

Yeah, I didn't exactly mean they could just stand there and be like "Yeah, we got 47 Witch Elves coming our way, and we'll be able to kill them all. Just so you know." I was going for more along the lines of "Uh, guys, I think there might be Dark Elves coming."

[Anonymouswhat]

if anything they dont have such an ability passively and it usually shows its colors while casting a spell. not like a fire bolt spell but somthing that has to do with the mind and exploring it and they might get glimpses of shady images of things to come or things they/or the person feels

[Delolith]

Archmages get divination and screening spells. However, it is not a passive ability but something they actually cast actively in order to check things...not something that strikes them when they do not expect it.

Delolith

[serratemplar]

Short answer: Yes.

One who commands the Lore of Heavens (The Wind of Azyr) can see into the future.
Winds of Magic (http://archmagery.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/the-winds-of-magic/)

Will we see this in WAR? Very, very likely not ;) Not only because it's kind of impossible to implement, but for lore-reasoning as well. If a mage is specialized in the Wind of Azyr, he or she can see into the future (or cast spells to do so). Archmages use High Magic, which is a mix of all the winds (balanced against each other), and thus they are not truly strong in any individual wind. So an archmage typically can't do something like see into the future. Medium-power is the cost of versatility.

[Katar]

Short answer: Yes.

One who commands the Lore of Heavens (The Wind of Azyr) can see into the future.
Winds of Magic (http://archmagery.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/the-winds-of-magic/)

Will we see this in WAR? Very, very likely not ;) Not only because it's kind of impossible to implement, but for lore-reasoning as well. If a mage is specialized in the Wind of Azyr, he or she can see into the future (or cast spells to do so). Archmages use High Magic, which is a mix of all the winds (balanced against each other), and thus they are not truly strong in any individual wind. So an archmage typically can't do something like see into the future. Medium-power is the cost of versatility.

I thought that to use High Magic the Archmages had to be masters of the 8 lesser winds of magic. They take strands of each and refine them into purer more advanced form of magic. Although technically a Human mage from one of the colleges will cast more powerful spells from the lesser winds due to ignorance of the true danger to themselves and others.

We won't see any divination in the game as it's too hard to implement, in the same way that true High Magic won't be in the game or even in the TT game as it's too powerful.

[Delolith]

Short answer: Yes.

One who commands the Lore of Heavens (The Wind of Azyr) can see into the future.
Winds of Magic (http://archmagery.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/the-winds-of-magic/)

Will we see this in WAR? Very, very likely not ;) Not only because it's kind of impossible to implement, but for lore-reasoning as well. If a mage is specialized in the Wind of Azyr, he or she can see into the future (or cast spells to do so). Archmages use High Magic, which is a mix of all the winds (balanced against each other), and thus they are not truly strong in any individual wind. So an archmage typically can't do something like see into the future. Medium-power is the cost of versatility.

Errr actually yes. In order for the Archmage to be an Archmage and use High Magic...he is actually a master of all other winds. He just prefers to use the generic form of raw magic...which is in the form of High Magic. Has nothing to do though with him being less capable due to more versatility. He is versatile...and he is more capable than any living caster on that. An Archmage is not a Hero/Lord choise in the TT for no reason;) No peon can be named an Archmage...even among elves that are more adept to the use of the winds of magic;)

Delolith

[Kaeldor]

...

We won't see any divination in the game as it's too hard to implement, in the same way that true High Magic won't be in the game or even in the TT game as it's too powerful.

Actually .... you can RP to have divination in the game, you just have to make the other side to target you .... and BOOM divination. If they don't take that out until release.


About the High Magic, High Elf mages give up nothing, they can pick any spell they want from all the winds of magic, plus High Magic. Lorewise there is no versality vs power trade off at all. High Elf mages are simply better than human mages. Of course they can't do that in an MMO, so we are as powerfull as goblin shaman, but well, we still have THE LORE to get us through those cold, we-are-not-really-powerfull days in the game.

[serratemplar]

High Elf mages are simply better than human mages. Of course they can't do that in an MMO, so we are as powerfull as goblin shaman, but well, we still have THE LORE to get us through those cold, we-are-not-really-powerfull days in the game.

Give yourself a little more credit.

We *are* more powerful.

(((@))___((@)))

[Katar]

About the High Magic, High Elf mages give up nothing, they can pick any spell they want from all the winds of magic, plus High Magic. Lorewise there is no versality vs power trade off at all. High Elf mages are simply better than human mages. Of course they can't do that in an MMO, so we are as powerfull as goblin shaman, but well, we still have THE LORE to get us through those cold, we-are-not-really-powerfull days in the game.

Actually what I was getting at is that the most powerful High Magic can move mountains and destroy whole armies at a stroke. There actually used to be a High Magic spell that you could use to move hills in TT, it did massive damage to units on the hill and ones caught underneath it when it moved I loved that spell :D. That won't be in the game, and they removed it from TT a few editions ago.

Edit: Realised that comment might not of been aimed at me :(

[Kaeldor]

Actually what I was getting at is that the most powerful High Magic can move mountains and destroy whole armies at a stroke. There actually used to be a High Magic spell that you could use to move hills in TT, it did massive damage to units on the hill and ones caught underneath it when it moved I loved that spell :D. That won't be in the game, and they removed it from TT a few editions ago.

Edit: Realised that comment might not of been aimed at me :(

Yup, just the divination part was aimed at you (and that was meant as a joke). Yeah I loved the moving hill too ^.^


Give yourself a little more credit.

We *are* more powerful.

(((@))___((@)))

*cough* umm of course *cough*

[serratemplar]

OMG I want a spell to mutate the terrain @_@ Anybody ever play a Simcity game? At the beginning of the game when you get to terraform for free, and you can drag the mouse and create valleys and mountains and plateus and lakes and? ....that's not overpowered. Maybe they'll consider it. You know. To make it fair. For us.

jk?

[Aeviryn]

Actually what I was getting at is that the most powerful High Magic can move mountains and destroy whole armies at a stroke. There actually used to be a High Magic spell that you could use to move hills in TT, it did massive damage to units on the hill and ones caught underneath it when it moved I loved that spell :D. That won't be in the game, and they removed it from TT a few editions ago.

Edit: Realised that comment might not of been aimed at me :(

I miss Assault of Stone, that was always my favourite spell. I also miss Banishment for dealing with my brother's vampire counts. You can find some of the old high magic spells at this site if you are interested, though it just gives reviews of them and doesn't say their exact effect: http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/fan/whfbtace.html

[Ceandric]

I used to love the "Coruscation of Finreir" spell. Nothing quite like having all your spell ranges made tablewide :D

[Harlequin70]

Yeah well Magic sucks now in comparison to what it did spell wise. Hell casting has become really dangerous. From this edition to last there was a large drop in the number of Magic Orienatated Armies. You new either have to go all in Council Style or just ad it the Scroll caddie to fend of a few things. There seems to be no longer a middle ground its just no worth it for what you get out of it.

[Aeviryn]

I don't really have a problem with 2 level 2s in 2000 points with the Banner of Sorcery, though I usually use Lores over High Magic. I can usually get spells through even against Tzeentch and Vampire Counts. They can't dispel everything!

[Dastion]

From what I remember reading about Archmages in the table top they got to choose either a single lore or High Magic. In addition they always received Drain Magic.

I can't find the wiki page I remember reading it from but I do remember that much.

As for how High Magic works, I am under the impression that High Magic is about weaving the winds together in unison and you can't simply choose to say "well i'm going to do an exact copy of a Bright Wizard spell because High Magic includes that wind".

I have yet to see anything that implies that Archmages can use every wind either together as High Magic or separately at their whim.

[Aeviryn]

They do pick high magic or one lores to use at the start of each battle, I just meant that I did that I usually pick a lore over using High Magic. They do also all come with Drain Magic no matter what they choose to use.

[Dastion]

They do pick high magic or one lores to use at the start of each battle, I just meant that I did that I usually pick a lore over using High Magic. They do also all come with Drain Magic no matter what they choose to use.

Sorry, I was right below you so it looked like I was responding to you. I didn't realize that the choice was made at the start of each battle in the TT though. However, is each unit in your army technically the exact same unit in the next army? Given the amount of death and such that occurs in these matches I'd assume that units are, in general, not considered to be exactly the same unit in the next battle, which is why the Archmage can choose each time. Archmages are able to master any wind they choose, or High Magic. But, if a normal Archmage could use any wind he wanted at his whim there would be no limitation to choosing a single wind each battle... it's just that their variety of knowledge makes them a very customizable unit for each battle.

What I was refering to was this:

Errr actually yes. In order for the Archmage to be an Archmage and use High Magic...he is actually a master of all other winds. He just prefers to use the generic form of raw magic...which is in the form of High Magic. Has nothing to do though with him being less capable due to more versatility. He is versatile...and he is more capable than any living caster on that. An Archmage is not a Hero/Lord choise in the TT for no reason;) No peon can be named an Archmage...even among elves that are more adept to the use of the winds of magic;)

Delolith

Who seems to think that an Archmage can use any lore he chooses at his whim. High Magic is anything but the "generic" version. It's more the pinnacle. But just as you can't really say one lore is definitely better than another High Magic is not necessarily better than any other lore..otherwise it would be silly to give Archmages the option of choosing another lore. High Magic is useful for it's variety and utility, especially against casters.

I think Mythic just made a mistake when they first described the Archmage, and they gave Paul far too much license to say whatever he pleased. I remember when I first read about the Archmage career thinking that they'd get a mix of spells from all the lores (I knew little about the Warhammer Lore then). It wasn't until I actually read up on it that I discovered exactly what High Magic was, so I can see where the misconception comes from.

As to the OP: It's entirely possible the Archmage could, at the very least, lay down some sort of 'wards' to notify him when enemies come near. You have to remember that High Magic is all about mixing the other winds so there are very few effects that are out of High Magic's area of influence. This is the very reason why Archmages make the perfect healer for the High Elves, nevermind the "Nuker/Healer" type.

[Kaeldor]

Sorry, I was right below you so it looked like I was responding to you. I didn't realize that the choice was made at the start of each battle in the TT though. However, is each unit in your army technically the exact same unit in the next army? Given the amount of death and such that occurs in these matches I'd assume that units are, in general, not considered to be exactly the same unit in the next battle, which is why the Archmage can choose each time. Archmages are able to master any wind they choose, or High Magic. But, if a normal Archmage could use any wind he wanted at his whim there would be no limitation to choosing a single wind each battle... it's just that their variety of knowledge makes them a very customizable unit for each battle.

What I was refering to was this:



Who seems to think that an Archmage can use any lore he chooses at his whim. High Magic is anything but the "generic" version. It's more the pinnacle. But just as you can't really say one lore is definitely better than another High Magic is not necessarily better than any other lore..otherwise it would be silly to give Archmages the option of choosing another lore. High Magic is useful for it's variety and utility, especially against casters.

I think Mythic just made a mistake when they first described the Archmage, and they gave Paul far too much license to say whatever he pleased. I remember when I first read about the Archmage career thinking that they'd get a mix of spells from all the lores (I knew little about the Warhammer Lore then). It wasn't until I actually read up on it that I discovered exactly what High Magic was, so I can see where the misconception comes from.

As to the OP: It's entirely possible the Archmage could, at the very least, lay down some sort of 'wards' to notify him when enemies come near. You have to remember that High Magic is all about mixing the other winds so there are very few effects that are out of High Magic's area of influence. This is the very reason why Archmages make the perfect healer for the High Elves, nevermind the "Nuker/Healer" type.

I think you are wrong, the High Elf mages know all the lores and can choose them at whim (lorewise). They have to master all the lores before they even can beginn to study high magic. It says so in the army book.

What you are speaking about is just how they implement it in the TT game, where of course you can't take all the lores all the time, because then a High Elf mage would be just OP. But you could have a High elf mage during a campain swap his lores at every battle if you want.

Same with the High Magic spell list, it's also supposed to have much stronger spells, becaus High Magic is so uber, but the actual spells are not stronger than any of the lores, just different, and have a bit of a wider scope than the some of the other lores, that's all. Lorewise though High Maigc is stronger.

You can't mix lore and implementation when you try to make a point. What Deolith said is that lorewise High Magic is considered to be better than the single lores, and a High Elf mage can choose whatever spell he likes whenever he wants. That is correct. It's considered ot be the pinnacle of magic, and the greatest High Elf mages don't use the lores because they are inferior to High Magic.

To make an interesting TT game or MMO, you can't have it implemented like that of course. But High Elf mages do have a wider variety than the other mages, because the can change the lore they use before each battle. They can also control the winds of magic a bit better (shutting down the magic phase easier).

And usually you consider your hero/lord choises to be the same guy in the next battle, even if they die. At least many people do so.