Will an ironbreaker be a viable PvP class?

[hatakilla]

Im heavily into PvP, almost no interest in PvE at all.
Lately ive been thinking of creating my first character as a dwarf ironbreaker.

Here is the main problem.
Im having fears that an ironbreaker will be similar to a prot warrior in WOW. The prot warrior in WOW had survivability but could only do somewhat decent damage.

If you have played an ironbreaker, please tell me how this class performs in a pvp environment?

PS: im not interested in tanking, PvE is not my thing.

[Siyx]

Yes they are very viable and absolutely needed in PvP. The tanking archetype in WAR breaks away from the traditional "PvE or bust" mentality and give tanks plenty of PvP viability. Can't really go into specifics but your role as a tank in RvR is going to be heavily centered around control.

As soon as the NDA drops take a look at my thread, I outline pretty much everything you could think of in the thorough report I wrote up.

[Tarion]

Tanking =/= PvE

For WAR, you will be tanking in PvP too. You will be getting in the way of your opponents to protect the healers, you will be taking a hell of a lot of firepower. Overall, you won't top the damage chart, but you will be contributing by keeping your team alive.

And that's just a Defensive specced 'Breaker. Until the NDA comes down, we can't know exactly how powerful an offensively spec'd one will be.

[aimsux3214]

Grudge mechanic sounds cool. Supposedly ironbreakers take you hurting their friends very personally and become very powerful if they aren't killed.

[Addelbreich]

Grudge mechanic sounds cool. Supposedly ironbreakers take you hurting their friends very personally and become very powerful if they aren't killed.

Which is why they are good tanks, even in PvP. As soon as your enemies refocus their efforts on you, however, your grudge diminishes and you get less powerful attacks and more powerful defensive abilities.

You said in your initial post that you are not interested in tanking. If so, don't play an Ironbreaker. I know it's a shame that there is no Dwarf Melee DPS but speccing an Ironbreaker for offensive really won't be the same. The damage will be mediocre and you won't be an effective DPS compared to White Lions and Witch Hunters. Your tanking will still be perfectly viable but not as much as a well balanced spec. I don't know if that was your plan or what but if it was, then please think about what I've said.

[TiraOfWar]

Without getting into specifics and breaking the NDA I will say this, tanking in pvp is quite possible.

The issue with WoW prot warriors is that they only had the ability to mitigate damage done to themselves. Since they were difficult to take down and presented no real threat they were ignored for squishier targets.

Mythic has made a tanks viable in PvP by giving them several tools and options for mitigating damage to their team. Some of these abilities involve making enemies' attacks less effective. Some of these abilities involve covering for allies. Some of these abilities involve giving the enemy team incentives to attack the tank rather than the squishy.

I can say for certain that a tank specced tanking class in WAR far outperform a WoW prot warrior in pvp.

As for offensive specced tanks, understand you aren't simply trading armor for damage. As you go up in masteries you get access to tactics and new abilities that expand your utility. It's about more than just raw damage.

[Siyx]

Best way to explain it is as follows:

WAR Tanks are a Utility class Using Control and Mitigating damage for group mates are primary goals.

Whether you spec Vengeance or Stone / Brotherhood your goal is ultimately the same. Yes, you will do more damage as Vengeance but thats not the point, you will just be filling a different role. If you spec Vengeance for the sole reason of doing more damage you will be a very poor and useless Ironbreaker. It needs to be seen that yes you can fill a specific offensive role, but if you're going to ignore the real strengths of the class, why not roll a real MDPS?

[PersonalRiot]

If you spec Vengeance for the sole reason of doing more damage you will be a very poor and useless Ironbreaker.

That is a little overdone.

A vengeance breaker is anything but useless just like his defensive counterpart he also serves a role in combat.

[Siyx]

That is a little overdone.

A vengeance breaker is anything but useless just like his defensive counterpart he also serves a role in combat.

If you actually read what I posted, my point was that if the ONLY reason for playing offensively was for the "omg dmage!?!!!" factor, then whats the point.

Yes, Vengeance does have its role, however its certainly not all about doing damage.

That was my point.

[PersonalRiot]

I did read your post...

If you spec Vengeance for the sole reason of doing more damage you will be a very poor and useless Ironbreaker.The whole point of the Vengeance tree is to do more damage and to improve your offensive abilities.

It needs to be seen that yes you can fill a specific offensive role, but if you're going to ignore the real strengths of the class, why not roll a real MDPS?While this is true it seems bias towards the defensive side of the Ironbreaker. The class has strengths in an offensive nature as well, the Ironbreaker is an amazing diver(far better than the MDPS).

[Siyx]

You're still missing that one word, sole. Once more, if you ONLY spec into Vengeance to do damage (only meaning ignoring the offensive utility, control, and the 'offensive-defensive' capability to cover your other DPS) then you are over-looking too much of the class to warrant a group slot, in my eyes anyways.

I'm not going to make another post on this so just to clarify, the damage you have potential to do as Vengeance is nice, and defiantly compliments the offensive play-style, but the 'big numbers' are not the real strength of the offensive spec.

[hatakilla]

with the cut of the hammerer. i REALLY hope that an offensive ironbreaker will be anything but useless.
I love to play warrior classes in MMO's and i love to play them offensively.

In WoW i played an arms tauren warrior, since i only liked to PvP.
Although since i was specced strictly for offense, i didnt think AT ALL that i was useless. If i got heals then i was basically unstoppable, in addition, did a huge huge amount of damage.
I still took damage like a champ, probably a few hits less than what a prot warrior could take, but the damage dealt was ridiculous.

My fear is that playing an ironbreaker will basically be the equivalent of playing a harder hitting prot warrior, but not in line of the damage a hammer would have been able to deal. Yes i know an ironbreaker is made to take damage, but its not ideal for people that were planning to play a hammerer.

[Scrump]

I can't say much until NDA comes down, but lets put it this way.... i EAT greenskins! No matter your spec you are good in PVP.

[poor_bastard]

Don't worry. Right now tanks have the most utility and crowd control in the game, and of the two order tanks the IB has by far the most. As an IB you can either use a variety of abilities to help protect soft target classes if that's your thing, or you can spec and gear to give up a lot of that utility to do burst damage which is pretty much on par with the melee dps careers.

All in all tanks are much more dynamic and useful for rvr than any mmo you've probably ever played before.

[Jiub]

That is a little overdone.

A vengeance breaker is anything but useless just like his defensive counterpart he also serves a role in combat.


You can give a pinto a new paint job, but it still will drive like crap.

In other words, a tank trying to be a dps'er is a waste of time. Sure you will do more damage than a defensive specced tank, but you will never equal a dps class.

[Tarion]

You're still missing that one word, sole. Once more, if you ONLY spec into Vengeance to do damage (only meaning ignoring the offensive utility, control, and the 'offensive-defensive' capability to cover your other DPS) then you are over-looking too much of the class to warrant a group slot, in my eyes anyways.

I'm not going to make another post on this so just to clarify, the damage you have potential to do as Vengeance is nice, and defiantly compliments the offensive play-style, but the 'big numbers' are not the real strength of the offensive spec.
Actually, in all fairness he was right. You said if you were only speccing vengeance to do more (The word you were missing) then you'd be wasting your time. Since the point of speccing vengeance is to do more damage, he's right.

EDIT:
If you spec Vengeance for the sole reason of doing more damage you will be a very poor and useless Ironbreaker.

The quote I was referring too.

[Siyx]

I still stand by what I said, if you want huge damage and big numbers, then you would probably enjoy playing a pure DPS class more.

[december]

take a look at it this way

who would you rather have charging the enemy lines? a dwarf with a big 2hander or a wimpy mdps class that'll die in 3 seconds?

oh and since they cut one of teh tank classes, the other two might be in a bit higher demand

[Amar]

What ever happened to the old "There is a Beta, and I am in it" in regards to rightfully respecting the NDA, I know it's almost down but come on ;)

With that said, there is a beta, I am a apart of it, and I might even pwn Destro with an IB in said beta.

[porcu12345]

You can give a pinto a new paint job, but it still will drive like crap.

In other words, a tank trying to be a dps'er is a waste of time. Sure you will do more damage than a defensive specced tank, but you will never equal a dps class.


You really have no clue. Sure, our damage won't EQUAL a dps class, but in the same manner a DPS class will never EQUAL the support, snares, shouts and disabling abilities an offensive tank will bring on top of their damage.

Put it this way;
(from a pvp perspective)

Mage in WoW gets higher crits than the rogues, and has the added bonus of being able to strike from afar and has various escape mechanism's to get away from other melee dps.

But the rogue, has ways to slow this mage down. Such as Slowing poison, and many ways to disable / interupt the caster making his job a lot harder, like stuns and incapacitates.

Now, granted this is an example. But, just because the mage puts out higher damage and crits in a pvp siuation, it doesn't mean he will be the victor. There is a lot to be said about slowing, knocking over, stunning and interupting your enemies.

Tanks in WAR are the best at this job, Offensive tanks being the cream of the crop. Out-doing regular tanks in terms damage and out-doing DPS classes in their ability to lock down an oponent while still bringing the same, if not better crowd control than other tanks at the expense of taking some extra damage.

[poor_bastard]

You can give a pinto a new paint job, but it still will drive like crap.

In other words, a tank trying to be a dps'er is a waste of time. Sure you will do more damage than a defensive specced tank, but you will never equal a dps class.

That comment needs to be responded to.

IB is NOT a pinto unless you're somehow confusing a pinto with one of the greatest cars ever built.... Like I said with the right gear, spec, tactics, and full 100 pts of grudge you'll give up a fair amount of utility but put out some crazy high damage numbers which honestly will make even pure dps classes go a TANK just hit me for HOW much?!?

That's part of what makes the game a ton of fun. There are no "worthless" specs or worthless classes. As a tank if you want to customize to be key in dictating the flow of the battle you can do that. If you want to protect soft targets, you can do that. If you want to just beat the living @#$% out of someone, you can do that.

Same goes for all classes pretty much. With healers if you want to keep a single target alive through a mailstom? You can customize to do that. You want to keep a group up through a hail of fire...you can do that. You want to melt faces and not look at a single health bar ever, you can pretty much do that too.

DPS just to round it out is basically do you want support abilities to assist your group, mostly through debuffs to the enemy but some buffs too? Single target DPS? or multi target dps?

This is NOT other MMO's. All classes are useful, all specs are useful, and groups are going to want a lot of DIFFERENT combinations (i.e. you'll want some tanks to defend and some tanks to lead the melee brigade as it charges into the enemy). Groups and people that try to look at classes as single dimensional "rolls" as is made popular by other games an elitism WILL loose....A LOT

[Arcton]

From what I'm reading from you beta-goers, it almost sounds as if IBs are overpowered. I hope this is not the case, and I hope that they won't be overpopulated due to it. =\

Are all the classes reasonably well balanced at the moment?

[porcu12345]

From what I'm reading from you beta-goers, it almost sounds as if IBs are overpowered. I hope this is not the case, and I hope that they won't be overpopulated due to it. =\

Are all the classes reasonably well balanced at the moment?


Dwarfs? Over-populated?
Blasphemy!

[Siyx]

Dwarfs? Over-populated?
Blasphemy!

I believe he said over-powered, not populated. :D

[porcu12345]

I believe he said over-powered, not populated. :D

"I hope this is not the case, and I hope that they won't be overpopulated due to it. =\" :P

[oettinger]

It just hurts my feeling to see the WOW min/maxing already on the warhammer forums.

To tell ppl that to roll an offensive ironbreaker is bad, will get people into the pidgeonhole mentality before the game even starts.

MYTHIC has said, that a class can do their main roll, no matter the spec, and i would like to see it be that way.

I am SICK SICK SICK of ppl tellink runepriests, and warriorpriests to spec all healing, or they are useless, and ppl telling IB if they want to DPS, then roll a witchhunter.

PERSONALLY, I will not be pidgeonholed into a "role" that is thought by those with a WOW mentality to be the one I have to play.


This is coming from a "Highwarlord" 70 enhancement shaman (unguilded due to choice of spec)
also have 70 shadowpriest, 70 fury warrior, 70 feral druid, and 70 demonology lock.
ALL "offspec" thus the reason that I hate that game now. Can't get a group unless you have 2-3 sets of gear, and pay100g to respecc everytime you do an instance.

[Jiub]

You guys completely missed my point or perhaps I didn't do a good job explaining it. I played a Ret paladin in WoW, so trust me, I am strongly opposed to any min/maxing. I personally would LOVE for Ironbreakers to be able to shell out a lot of damage. In fact ,if they can, IB will probalby be my main. What I meant by saying that it's pointless to try to turn an IB into a dps'er is that you shouldn't try to turn a character into something its not. Even if you spec your IB vengeance, you are still a tank class at heart, and you should use your tanking abilites WITH your dps ablilities. Basically it's like if a Warrior Priest or Disciple just sat there trying to dps and never ever healed. They would, in point of fact, be playing the class wrong, or at least veyr poorly. All im saying is that you should not spec an IB vengeance and then just run around pretending you are a melee dps and completely ignore all the utility that you bring to the table.

[GoodIdea]

I've heard they are one of the most powerful classes in pvp currently. They will be definitely be one of the most needed classes as well. I also believe they will be the least played class, so that will make you "unique" in a way.

[GoodIdea]

It just hurts my feeling to see the WOW min/maxing already on the warhammer forums.

To tell ppl that to roll an offensive ironbreaker is bad, will get people into the pidgeonhole mentality before the game even starts.

MYTHIC has said, that a class can do their main roll, no matter the spec, and i would like to see it be that way.

I am SICK SICK SICK of ppl tellink runepriests, and warriorpriests to spec all healing, or they are useless, and ppl telling IB if they want to DPS, then roll a witchhunter.

PERSONALLY, I will not be pidgeonholed into a "role" that is thought by those with a WOW mentality to be the one I have to play.


This is coming from a "Highwarlord" 70 enhancement shaman (unguilded due to choice of spec)
also have 70 shadowpriest, 70 fury warrior, 70 feral druid, and 70 demonology lock.
ALL "offspec" thus the reason that I hate that game now. Can't get a group unless you have 2-3 sets of gear, and pay100g to respecc everytime you do an instance.

That's not true, my Sunwell guild (that's the top 3% of raiding guilds) has many shadowpriests, a few fury warriors and a few feral druids in each and every raid. You can do virtually any dungeon with any spec. Being different specs is only a problem is playing with nubs or if you make it a problem. For casual players it's no problem at all.

[Rod1337]

I like how people start arguments from nothing

There is no DPS ironbreaker, an Ironbreaker who specs Vengeance to DPS and not tank wont be able to DPS.

Vengeance requires grudge, without an oathfriend or himself being attacked he wont get much, that means his DPS will suck, that means he will get bored of the class and roll something else, or will learn to tank.

There is no DPS spec, just Ironbreakers with more survivability, more DPS or better buffs.

All must tank because the mechanics demand it.

Thread end

[Rod1337]

You guys completely missed my point or perhaps I didn't do a good job explaining it. I played a Ret paladin in WoW, so trust me, I am strongly opposed to any min/maxing. I personally would LOVE for Ironbreakers to be able to shell out a lot of damage. In fact ,if they can, IB will probalby be my main. What I meant by saying that it's pointless to try to turn an IB into a dps'er is that you shouldn't try to turn a character into something its not. Even if you spec your IB vengeance, you are still a tank class at heart, and you should use your tanking abilites WITH your dps ablilities. Basically it's like if a Warrior Priest or Disciple just sat there trying to dps and never ever healed. They would, in point of fact, be playing the class wrong, or at least veyr poorly. All im saying is that you should not spec an IB vengeance and then just run around pretending you are a melee dps and completely ignore all the utility that you bring to the table.

The difference is that a Warrior priest can DPS without healing, they can be played wrong.

An IB cant be played wrong, you can just sit and try to DPS, since your DPS comes from grudge, you need to tank to build that grudge.

Your post would be more analogous to a warrior priest trying to be a pure healer. Sure he will heal, but he will be gimped and compelled to reroll another thing, or be forced to DPS.

[hatakilla]

I just hope that our class isnt gonna be a class that will be CC'ed to hell like crazy.
It may just be me but i could already see it, me charging into a group of enemies and getting CC'ed , then getting focus fired , then dying..all before i can deal even a little damage
Im pretty sure thats not how its gonna be but after playing a warrior for 2 years in WoW, thats one thing ive had a problem with for a while.

[Jiub]

I've heard they are one of the most powerful classes in pvp currently. They will be definitely be one of the most needed classes as well. I also believe they will be the least played class, so that will make you "unique" in a way.


If they really are that powerful, don't expect them to be underplayed for long. There is a demographic of players we shall refer to as the "sheep" that will always flock to the flavor of the month class.

[Vizage]

Yes they are very viable and absolutely needed in PvP. The tanking archetype in WAR breaks away from the traditional "PvE or bust" mentality and give tanks plenty of PvP viability. Can't really go into specifics but your role as a tank in RvR is going to be heavily centered around control.

As soon as the NDA drops take a look at my thread, I outline pretty much everything you could think of in the thorough report I wrote up.

What he said, with the addition that "if" I was a healer in beta, I would put ironbreaker at the absolute top of the healing target list.

[poor_bastard]

I like how people start arguments from nothing

There is no DPS ironbreaker, an Ironbreaker who specs Vengeance to DPS and not tank wont be able to DPS.

Vengeance requires grudge, without an oathfriend or himself being attacked he wont get much, that means his DPS will suck, that means he will get bored of the class and roll something else, or will learn to tank.

There is no DPS spec, just Ironbreakers with more survivability, more DPS or better buffs.

All must tank because the mechanics demand it.

Thread end

Sometime tomorrow night when the NDA drops and I'm home from work I'll give you an idea of what it means to be an offensive ironbreaker (damage, battlefield roll, etc).... and why this made me laugh coke out of my nose!

[hatakilla]

Sometime tomorrow night when the NDA drops and I'm home from work I'll give you an idea of what it means to be an offensive ironbreaker (damage, battlefield roll, etc).... and why this made me laugh coke out of my nose!

man i hoping its good news

[Mazari]

I like how people start arguments from nothing

There is no DPS ironbreaker, an Ironbreaker who specs Vengeance to DPS and not tank wont be able to DPS.

Vengeance requires grudge, without an oathfriend or himself being attacked he wont get much, that means his DPS will suck, that means he will get bored of the class and roll something else, or will learn to tank.

There is no DPS spec, just Ironbreakers with more survivability, more DPS or better buffs.

All must tank because the mechanics demand it.

Thread end


Dude, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about, i advice not spit out stuff you have no idea about. If your not in beta dont jump into conclussions because i can tell you your wrong all the way on everything you said , literally everything.


prepare as today when nda lifts you will see my "poor no dps vengeance specced ironbreaker" in work in a video... get some soft thing over your chin as youll score a jaw drop

[poor_bastard]

Dude, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about, i advice not spit out stuff you have no idea about. If your not in beta dont jump into conclussions because i can tell you your wrong all the way on everything you said , literally everything.


prepare as today when nda lifts you will see my "poor no dps vengeance specced ironbreaker" in work in a video... get some soft thing over your chin as youll score a jaw drop

So true. Personally I find myself loving a brotherhood main with vengeance secondary spec, and my damage output is still enough to make even ME do a double sometimes.

If I can figure out how to do a video I'll try and find a way to post up just how fun this class is (assuming my buddy who plays an archmage can be around to show the class at it's finest)... until then will have to settle for a written explanation of just how much fun and useful an ironbreaker can be regardless of what you spec into.. am totally torn between an IB, shadow warrior, and Bright Wizard for a main...darn you mythic making so many fun and different classes!

[Mazari]

1 vid will be 2h RvR with vengeance other will be PvE survivability test with path of stone spec swordnboard :)

Brotherhood is cool too, Earthshatter > all

[Jiub]

I do really hope Ironbreakers can do pretty good damage, and if so I will strongly consider making one my main...but I am worried that if they do a lot of damage, then they will become one of the most played classes..because who wouldn't want to have crazy survivability AND be able to do lots of damage?

[Mazari]

I do really hope Ironbreakers can do pretty good damage, and if so I will strongly consider making one my main...but I am worried that if they do a lot of damage, then they will become one of the most played classes..because who wouldn't want to have crazy survivability AND be able to do lots of damage?


to have one you sacrifice the other

[Gorthor]

The difference is that a Warrior priest can DPS without healing, they can be played wrong.

An IB cant be played wrong, you can just sit and try to DPS, since your DPS comes from grudge, you need to tank to build that grudge.

Except you don't need to tank to build grudge, you get most of it from your oathfriend being hti and a tactic that gives you grudge when you hit somebody.

[Warbear]

I'll say this.... so far, an IB is a VERY strong opponent to face on the battlefield. One of my beta buddies has played one after testing multiple classes, including every archetype. He absolutley fell in love with the IB.

The IB, IMO is one of the more versatile tanks out there. He has very capable damage output, when packing the grudge, has good defensive and damage mitigation capabilities.

I have personally tried the BO early levels and late levels and enjoy it, but it doesn't seem to pack the punch of the IB if specced in that line. The CHosen was a tank, and I didn't get mine very high before becoming disinterested. That's just my own personal opinions and experiences, which will differ from others, I'm sure.

But, to answer the OP's question. YES, the IB will be a very viable class on the battlefield, no matter if you spec tanky tanky, or spanky spanky.

I think all you dwarven folk will enjoy your classes, that's for sure.

[SteveX]

I have been playing an Ironbreaker for awhile now and I can say from experience that they will be a viable class in PvP. I have had great success as a Vengence specced Ironbreaker in both open world and scenario styles of RvR. In Open World RvR I am victoroius in most 1v1, some 2v1, and a few 3v1 (me being the 1) battles and do very well in big zerg fights (with healing). In Scenarios I consistently end up within the top 3 in Damage and Killing Blows.

Like any class though it is dependant on the player, I have seen people do very poorly with IB in RvR.

[Brutal]

Ironbreaker dps sucks..... :mad:

[SteveX]

Ironbreaker dps sucks..... :mad:

You're basing this on what?

They may not have the same DPS as a DPS class, but that is because they aren't a DPS class. With the right spec, tactics, and skills used IB's can kill both mobs and other players in pretty good time, especially if they have 100 Grudges

[hatakilla]

Ok if a defense spec IB will prove to be a formidable ally and a dangerous opponent on the battlefield, I will spec it.

Its just everytime i think of a tank, i remember my prot specced days of WoW when i was nothing but an easy target in PvP, and there was really no way i could protect my allies.

[poor_bastard]

Ironbreaker dps sucks..... :mad:

LOLOLOL!

Ok now that the NDA is gone... There are, in my opinion, roughly 3 ways to play an ironbreaker right now (all very different, well balanced, and fun!).

My personal Preference... I like to call this the "dwarf cruise missile"

I am currently Brotherhood up to earthshatter (greatest ability ever) and the rest into vengeance right now at level 32. As to tactics I've got 1 that gives a single target knockdown ability, 1 that gives me 5 grudge everytime I hit someone in melee, and one that gives me a 15% extra chance to crit above 50 grudge (making my total crit chance just over 30%)... With stacking strength and weapon skill and using a 2 hander I can CRUSH people....BAD..

At 100 grudge it is not at all unheard of for me to go up to 4-5 casters/healers, hit earthshatter critting them for 1,000+ damage (instant aoe, and now they are all snared by 40%..usable once every 20 seconds) and then after the global cooldown nail the same group who isn't able to get out of range in time with a rune etched axe and crit again for 1200-1300 (again instantly). pop a root or knockdown (or both) and now there are a few unable to flee for a few seconds. In that time chances are a BW will AOE what health they might have had left, or if I rushed in with Witchhunters/white lions (my normal MO) they will rip them apart individually in no time flat (since I've already softened them up a TON). As a note the 2,200 or so damage I can bust out with this combo is roughly 40% of a casters total health bolstered to level 36 and each attack is about equal to a BW AOE right now (but this combo takes some heavy cooldowns, while teh BW can spam like mad) M other abilities hit for close to 80-90% of a withhunter and slightly harder then a white lion (not counting the pet)...

The trade offs for my mad damage? I have VERY low survivability (i effectively turned myself into an AOE Melee DPS character), have someone what limited ultility, and have to be careful while trying to get behind enemy lines, or if they scatter before I'm ready for them too since I'm a VERy obvious target and have no good way to close the gap other then survivability which I traded in to smoke fools...so a lot of times I don't even get into range but when I do...BOOOM!

As to not being an effective group player by trying to be DPS....Well since I tend to charge the lines a lot with witchhunters/whitelions and go after casters, the utility I do have (other then just damage) complements them very well. I can make it so the group we want to kill can't get away (easily) as mentioned above, if a tank is hanging around to defend the casters I can knock him back out of range (if they ahve two though...houston we have a problem) so he can't bug us until we've killed at least a dude or two, and if it looks like a Witchhunter/lion's getting ganged on I can toss my defensive abilities on to help keep him/her alive long enough for them to kill whatever it is they are trying to kill (even without heals headed there way...most times)...

So yes offensive ironbreakers can still be amazing and useful...but you trade a fair amount and most unless you have a good friend spam healing you, will die... A LOT

The second method is what I like to call "The Volleyball Star"

In this mode of play you basically go for massive damage mitigation and CC out the yang. You will do very poor damage, but that's not your job...Your job is to charge into the middle of the enemy ranks and use your AOE knockback to scatter the zerg and break things up (usually causing a retreat or mass confusion on the other team). You also single out opportunistic soft targets (while being deep in enemy lines) to use a single target knockback on and punt them back to your team, where the melee DPS gleefully await the opportunity to "spike the ball".

I haven played some in this style and seen lots of others, and it's VERY fun. You basically work to define where the "front" is and use abilities to disrupt and push the enemy keeping them off balance enough (and your team somewhat safe thanks to abilities which protect people behind you, and because your being fired on...or if your blocking a choke point so collision detection keeps people from passing, etc).. It's a 100% different way to play the ironbreaker and both extremely fun, effective, and needed by a team on the battlefiled (but not necessarily more or less then the above since both have clear and needed rolls).

Finally what I call "Big Brother"

here you hang back behind the line that the other order tanks are holding, and you've elected to grab a mix of damage, CC, adn protective abilities. you run around like mad killing, CC controling, or otherwise defending your casters (range and healers) from the enemy tanks/melee dps/melee healers, that broke through the front line and are now trying to hastle your team. This is the tank most people are thinking off when they say "your a tank". It is also VERY effective, very needed, and very group useful... but again not any more or less tehn teh other 2. I can tell you that the teams become really good in RVR tend to have 1/3 tank, 1/3 healers, and 1/3 DPS. Of the tanks? 1/3 DPS, 1/3 defensive, and 1/3 control/front establisher's.... wow amazing how that works out isn't it... :-P

So Ironbreaker and tanks in general are VERY useful and needed no matter how you want to play, and mythic has given you a lot of DIFFERENT ways to fill your roll. To be fair and honest almost all the classes work out like this (all specs are useful, multiple play styles are just as useful as others, etc) so they really have done a great job with the classes. Is everything perfect, or will it be at launch? Heavens no, there is still a fair amount to be done and honestly when a LOT more people are messing with stuff chances are their are going to need to be more balance passes, tweaks, etc.. it is however shaping up to be looking very good and fun at teh moment.

As to Ironbreakers being overpopulated? not a chance. The class is a very late bloomer (doesn't really start getting good or fun until after 25 right now), and it's a dwarf (short, ugly, etc..).

[Mazari]

IBs DPS sucks ?

Check movie #1

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57020

[Brutal]

Ok the reason i said IB dmg sucks is because i was a tank.Yes i know there not meant to do dmg but still when i get in a fight sure i can take a beating for a while but still i can never kill the player only squig herders or sorceress .;) maybe i was just playing him wrong also i was only lvl17

[Obioma]

I like how people start arguments from nothing

There is no DPS ironbreaker, an Ironbreaker who specs Vengeance to DPS and not tank wont be able to DPS.

Vengeance requires grudge, without an oathfriend or himself being attacked he wont get much, that means his DPS will suck, that means he will get bored of the class and roll something else, or will learn to tank.

There is no DPS spec, just Ironbreakers with more survivability, more DPS or better buffs.

All must tank because the mechanics demand it.

Thread end

Thank you, all of you guys are definately arguing over nothing.

I must say, though, that Vengeance IB's can do alot of damage, as long as you know how to play them. I am sure many people who will play them that don't want to tank, won't use the Oathfriend, thus, they on't get grudge, thus they suck, and thus they will reroll something else. DOn't worry about how other people play, just play your way.

[Obioma]

Ok if a defense spec IB will prove to be a formidable ally and a dangerous opponent on the battlefield, I will spec it.

Its just everytime i think of a tank, i remember my prot specced days of WoW when i was nothing but an easy target in PvP, and there was really no way i could protect my allies.

lol you actually tried to pvp as a tank? DId you even try to build an MS set?

[Siyx]

Thank you, all of you guys are definately arguing over nothing.

I must say, though, that Vengeance IB's can do alot of damage, as long as you know how to play them. I am sure many people who will play them that don't want to tank, won't use the Oathfriend, thus, they on't get grudge, thus they suck, and thus they will reroll something else. DOn't worry about how other people play, just play your way.

You're forgetting people love to think their way is far superior to others, and if they are not playing that way they are automatically bad or doing it wrong. People are compelled by the desire to be right, no matter how wrong they actually are and we will always have arguments.