Will archmages be easy fodder in RvR as perhaps the weakest healer in the game?

[jshokie]

Clearly Archmages will be among the first targeted players on the Order side in RvR.
Looking over the abilities here:

http://www.warhammerinfo.com/db/c/index.php?switch=Archmage

We've only seen one major CC ability so far (Mistress of the marsh), and though it is a powerful one it's on a 30 second CD with a 3 second cast time. Unless you're working with 5 high magic charges on it to reduce the cast time, it seems as if it's not going to help you much once you've been engaged with a melee class.

From experience with other games of this type it seems that the Archmage is lacking some of the survival tools that would allow it to escape from melee range. And seeming to lack the durability of both the Warrior Priest and the Rune Priest, I wonder if the archmage will be the first target to be focused fired and killed in PvP situations.

Obviously you can't have everything, and the archmage certainly does seem to have powerful abilities if they are able to use them. But if you're dead early in every encounter mana efficiency and powerful abilities don't mean much.

[Fontaine]

But if you're dead early in every encounter mana efficiency and powerful abilities don't mean much.
Good thing WAR doesn't have mana then, amirite?

But, I am not afraid of the class being destroyed early on in battles. That spell list is not up to date, and things have definitely changed since then, so I wouldn't fear. Also, that spell list is not complete, so you have some other abilities at your disposal.

[MrBoo]

shields + flash heal and the fact healers are some of the high armor classes. you also get a spell reducing all damage dealt to you by 50% and no set backs on attacks for 5 seconds

[SolBadguy]

I don't see this being a problem at all. How can you get focused fired if you are in the back of the lines and not in the heat of combat. Also with tanks and other melee classes running around you, I really cant see them watching you get your face smashed in without helping. seriously what are the odds that a tank wont put guard on you and take the damage instead. Seems to be common sense to keep your healer alive.

[DeaExMachina]

Good thing WAR doesn't have mana then, amirite?

But, I am not afraid of the class being destroyed early on in battles. That spell list is not up to date, and things have definitely changed since then, so I wouldn't fear. Also, that spell list is not complete, so you have some other abilities at your disposal.

It doesn't? Because as far as I can tell the Action Point system is really no different then a Mana System. You still need AP to cast your skills/spells.

Anyways you're survival is directly related to your teams ability to keep people from you, Witch Elves aside of course.

[jshokie]

I do think it's something to consider if Archmages may be among the most tank dependent classes on the Order (perhaps along with the Bright Mage).

Certainly there's going to be alot of idiots playing this game (as there is in any MMORPG). Unless you're with guildies or friends, how many tanks are going to stay back and protect the squishies, and how many are going to run in and try to do "1337 D|>5"?

The Warrior Priest definitely seems better equipped to keep himself alive in such a situation. I still think I'm going to play an Archmage, but I am looking forward to seeing a few more abilities unveiled that will up the survivability.

[SpiritofWar]

Flee (http://www.warhammerinfo.com/db/index.php?req=s&val=Flee) - "Core Ability" You run away from the battle in a mad panic, increasing your run speed for 10 seconds. You immediately lose all of your action points, any career mechanic points, your Morale will begin to drop, and you will not begin to regain action points until 10 seconds have passed. You can use this ability again to cancel the effect early, but you will still remain panicked and will not regain action points for the full duration.

~~~

Run awaaaaaay!

:shock:

[Grondoth]

It doesn't? Because as far as I can tell the Action Point system is really no different then a Mana System. You still need AP to cast your skills/spells.

Anyways you're survival is directly related to your teams ability to keep people from you, Witch Elves aside of course.

Most mana systems are a bar that you use to cast your spells that contains a lot of potential uses, but recharges slowly. The AP system is a fast recharging bar that contains far fewer uses, but it's recharge time means that you can be in battle indefinably without having to stop for a long time to get back up into fighting shape.

It's different. I mean, the ability juice bar concept is the same, but the difference in potential and recharge rate makes it a far different feeling mechanic.

[SpiritofWar]

Most mana systems are a bar that you use to cast your spells that contains a lot of potential uses, but recharges slowly. The AP system is a fast recharging bar that contains far fewer uses, but it's recharge time means that you can be in battle indefinably without having to stop for a long time to get back up into fighting shape.

It's different. I mean, the ability juice bar concept is the same, but the difference in potential and recharge rate makes it a far different feeling mechanic.

:o

This makes me very happy indeed.

[GoodIdea]

At the start I think Archmages will be easily owned, but at level 40 I think we will do most of the owning.

It will be up to your teammates to help you also, which could be bad in PUGs, so get used to kiting. :)

I think the worst thing about the Archmage is that we're too damn tall and we swing our staff over our heads, it's like a huge beacon saying, "IM HERE. KILL ME!!!!" The shaman is a small dude, will go unnoticed in large scale battles.

[Argencia]

I am thinking that once I dye my armor bright pink my guild role will simply be 'bait'.

[Delolith]

And what is the role of the tank in this?:) Get a good tank by your side and I think you should not have a single problem at all...even with a single guard ability on you and the tank just standing by making /emotes on the enemy. AMs have several CC abilities known already to keep them alive even like this.

Delolith

[Melongod]

in closed beta.... and all i have to say is don't worry.

[Ladner]

Probably the most under-rated class.

[SpiritofWar]

in closed beta.... and all i have to say is don't worry.

Probably the most under-rated class.

You made me happy.

;-)

[Rommie]

Same, it's not the problem I feared - more in a few hours I hope.

[Aekari]

As someone stated before me, I'm in the closed beta and there's no need to worry about the AM. Granted, every class has their weaknesses and the AM will need to be mindful about who is around them. But after playing quite a few scenarios with mine, I've finished close to the top pretty regularly.

I don't think any of what I just said will break the NDA. My apologies if it does.

[LordCamalus]

in closed beta.... and all i have to say is don't worry.


I definetly have to agree...

[Dreadbeard]

I tell you as soon as the NDA is down.... Dam you NDA damn you to hell!:shock:

[Enelysios]

As someone stated before me, I'm in the closed beta and there's no need to worry about the AM. Granted, every class has their weaknesses and the AM will need to be mindful about who is around them. But after playing quite a few scenarios with mine, I've finished close to the top pretty regularly.

I don't think any of what I just said will break the NDA. My apologies if it does.

Actually, I think it does. However, it is the truth. Don't assume which classes will be powerful or popular when the game comes out.

[abcd]

Some of the equipment you can give the archmage is

1) talismen of sapery and forlaiths robe
not only can the archmage be hit only by magical attacks all magical weapons of enemy models can not be used and have no special effect.
2)book of hoeth-explains it self take lore of shadow and hope you get unseen lurker
3)seer, ring of fury and 2xscrolls.

REMEMBER TO

Run you high elf infantry uniTs 6 widE and 3 deep so there is 18 in each unit

ALWAYS TAKE HIGH MAGIC WITH LEVEL TWO WIZARDS GET SHIELD OF SAPERY

AND CHARACTERS IN MIDDLE OF UNITS

[Aeviryn]

My experiences in RvR so far, I am usually targetted a lot. I can survive fairly well running around and behind allies for collision detection on my pursuers, as well as detaunt them. If more than 2 people are on me I am in trouble, but if my team is sharp they can bail me out.

[Enelysios]

In my experience, archmages are among the most versitile and powerful characters in the game. I can load an enemy up with DoT, siphon his life, and start a channel power that does tons of damage with full high magic. (120DPS for 4 seconds at lv 7! lv 7!) All of this and it is all instant-cast. No build-up times. your basic heal does have a cast time, thats where rune-priests beat ya.

[Lust]

zealots/RPs have advantage of Instant heal which archmages lack i typically heal spammed with my zealot and i could easily out live most melee beating up on me with exception of IBs. Shamis Archmage counterpart seem to have higher survivability thanks to their smaller size and their animations are bit duller compared to AM :D

[solmakou]

Some of the equipment you can give the archmage is

1) talismen of sapery and forlaiths robe
not only can the archmage be hit only by magical attacks all magical weapons of enemy models can not be used and have no special effect.
2)book of hoeth-explains it self take lore of shadow and hope you get unseen lurker
3)seer, ring of fury and 2xscrolls.

REMEMBER TO

Run you high elf infantry uniTs 6 widE and 3 deep so there is 18 in each unit

ALWAYS TAKE HIGH MAGIC WITH LEVEL TWO WIZARDS GET SHIELD OF SAPERY

AND CHARACTERS IN MIDDLE OF UNITS


Is this english?

archmages are very powerful, as long as you have a competant tank archetype nearby, you will survive, along with your primary hot, shield, and quick heal+hot, a detaunt and a tank guarding you, you will take next to no damage. Make sure you don't focus too much on intelligence/willpower as resistance and wounds will keep you alive to heal and a bit of pew pew for much longer. I have never not topped the healing parser in a scenario and have definitely assisted in a few killing blows with a 5 point tranquility build up into searing pain!

[Rommie]

Archmages work best in the Army formation. A line of brave Elves or fodder Humans and Dwarfs at the front, you in the back supporting them. The bad guys WILL blow you away if you give them the chance, so make them hack through your friends to do so.

You have a bunch of spells that are insta-cast, so the key is mobility. Keep moving, keep aware, and you can do your job fine. Scenarios in the T2, T3, and T4 areas are the biggest weakness, as the even numbers means it is very hard to stop a dedicated enemy from attacking the opposing healers early and often. You either have to live with it, or stay in Open RvR with plenty of friends to play bodyguard.

Watch out for Marauder tentacles and Shamans putting Gork Says Stop on you - you'll learn quickly why Destruction likes to abuse innocent High Elves with these spells.

[King Phar]

Some of the equipment you can give the archmage is

1) talismen of sapery and forlaiths robe
not only can the archmage be hit only by magical attacks all magical weapons of enemy models can not be used and have no special effect.
2)book of hoeth-explains it self take lore of shadow and hope you get unseen lurker
3)seer, ring of fury and 2xscrolls.

REMEMBER TO

Run you high elf infantry uniTs 6 widE and 3 deep so there is 18 in each unit

ALWAYS TAKE HIGH MAGIC WITH LEVEL TWO WIZARDS GET SHIELD OF SAPERY

AND CHARACTERS IN MIDDLE OF UNITS

Talisman of Saphery and Foraliath's robe is over investing in protection I think. The archmage can still lose combat, flee due to combat res and get run over. Plus enemy casters can still hurt him. I think its best to get the book of hoeth and put the archmage in a unit.

In a 3000 pointer I've always loved comboing the book of hoeth on an archmage and Teclis. Its expensive but almost completely un-dispellable. Two irresistable drain magics is wonderful at stopping magic heavy armies and really plays hell with vampire one-dice-summoning spam.


Umm, back to the mmo, even if archmages are underpowered (from what I've seen they look quite nasty) I trust Mythic to fix it promptly. Maybe they will even over-do it and we'll have warlock repeat!! YAAAAAYYYY!!!!:twisted::twisted::twisted:

*I'm joking about the warlock thing...*

[Rod1337]

Walk Between Worlds - "Core Ability" You cannot be set back for 5 seconds and detaunts all enemies around you, making them hate you less and reducing the damage they deal to you by 50%.

[Rod1337]

Anyway a class that gets in the top ranks in DPS and Healing AT THE SAME TIME, and you dont expect them to have a weakness? come on. Get a pocket tank

[syksti]

:o

This makes me very happy indeed.


Yeah, well i had some times run out of AP. When u spam Heal as AM, and you have to cast some attack also cause it get your heal more effective. You have some potions to restore some AP point, but seems useless since the recharge is quite fast.

When an AM can't cast his heal, he have to reteite of coule of sec.

[Grondoth]

Yeah, well i had some times run out of AP. When u spam Heal as AM, and you have to cast some attack also cause it get your heal more effective. You have some potions to restore some AP point, but seems useless since the recharge is quite fast.

When an AM can't cast his heal, he have to reteite of coule of sec.

That's what I meant. You get tired, but you don't go "I'M OUT" and have to wait a long time to recharge. You have to stop a few seconds to get back into the swing of things. It seems like an AWFUL long time, especially when you're in a heated battle, and can mean life or death for you or your group, but it's not all that long to get back up to casting strength.

[Iogrez]

In my limited exprience (got in on the CE end of closed beta, and played an Archmage to rank 19 and RR 12) you are not easy fodder.

That comment that you can be high on the damage and healing lists is absolutely true; many times I was first in healing done and 4th or 5th in damage done. In either case, healing augments damage and damage augments healing - doing plenty of both is in your favor.

There's nothing watered-down about the class in my, granted, limited experience. Understand though, that your HoT's won't be enough to keep someone who's under serious DPS up. You'll need to be putting real heals down to keep them up which means Boon of Hysh or others.

[Nerissa]

It doesn't? Because as far as I can tell the Action Point system is really no different then a Mana System. You still need AP to cast your skills/spells.

Anyways you're survival is directly related to your teams ability to keep people from you, Witch Elves aside of course.


Amusingly, it's actually worse in the short run because AP regen acts as a 'gate'. Small pool, which makes weaving spells a pain in the , and most people are just going to sit there and spam one type of spell, because the bonuses for Force or Tranq do not in any way make it easier to weave. There needs to be a -AP cost boost attached to Force and Tranq so that weaving makes you DO MORE rather than just give a simple boost to a spell.

[Ghoti]

The "don't worry" and "probably the most underrated class" comments are spot on in my opinion. They are definitely not the weakest healers, and a strong case could be made for them being one of the stronger healers in the game.

When I'm on Destro and we are up against another group, we usually find things to work out best once the AM is down. However, when I'm on an AM, I'm often ignored. Once players start figuring things out, you'll probably end up high on the priority list of targets, but even then, you have some great tools to help you survive.

Personally, I've found that AMs are pretty hard to take down, and an AM in combination with several other classes, can feel invincible at times. The High Magic mechanic really allows you to do quite a bit, as you can really build up quickly with your instant spells and dots to fire off a really strong hot, shield, or a quick cast big heal when needed.

You also have some other tools to help you survive. First, you have a single target detaunt that when combined with your HoT can often be enough to allow you go ignore a single attacker while you focus on healing/debuffing. Second, you have a cone AE knock back which also adds a 20% snare to all affected for 10s. It takes some practice and some quick mouse turning, but when it works, it does allow you to get some distance. Third, you have a Career Morale ability that provides an AE knock back and silence effect.

Last, and certainly not least, you have your AE detaunt... Walk Between Worlds. This is probably my favorite ability in the AM line up. The detaunt part is great, but it's the 5s of uninterrupted casting that takes the cake. With the right combo of skills, you can use this to pretty much heal yourself to full in the midst of the train and then break free. I've done this countless times leaving the train scratching their heads. You can also pick up a tactic which reduces the cool down on this considerably. Combined with Bolstering Boon, since WBW can allow you to get off a Boon of Hysh more often, especially in the thick of things, WBW is awesome.

Definitely a very underrated class in my opinion.

[justsomeguy]

At the start I think Archmages will be easily owned, but at level 40 I think we will do most of the owning.

It will be up to your teammates to help you also, which could be bad in PUGs, so get used to kiting. :)

I think the worst thing about the Archmage is that we're too damn tall and we swing our staff over our heads, it's like a huge beacon saying, "IM HERE. KILL ME!!!!" The shaman is a small dude, will go unnoticed in large scale battles.

Right here. The bright white beam emanating from our hands is a bit more noticeable than the dark green sludge that comes from the goblin shaman as well. We have laser beams that come from our eyes though, so it's a worthy trade off.

[sakkath]

Archmages are probably the most survivable healer. Being able to stay at range, cast most of your important spells on the run, combined with silence, snare, knockdown/back/stuns, ae snare, ae debuffs!

Surviving is no problem.

I've been playing archmages extensively in beta for some time now and it's definitely a good class.

We have laser beams that come from our eyes though, so it's a worthy trade off.

Definitely, AE laserbeams from the eyes are no joke.

But I wouldn't recommend casting Radiant Lance or Searing Touch too often, it's like holding up a 'kill me now' sign. Hard to avoid sometimes though especially since Searing Touch is so strong.

[Warhammer2577]

Will archmages be easy fodder in RvR as perhaps the weakest healer in the game?

Not if the tanks and dps actually do their job well and get the enemy before they get to you.

[Loomdun]

we also have a single target knockback but I cant figure out how this spell linking junk works

[smoke2000]

Good to hear we have some survivability, would a duo of archmages be trouble for melee classes, in terms of keeping each other alive or is a tank / archmage a better choice to tag team.

[Deshiva]

Archmage definetly looks fun and they seem very useful, and their mechanic is just great. Many instant DoT or HoT spells makes you very mobile I suspect

[Kahine]

Archmage definetly looks fun and they seem very useful, and their mechanic is just great. Many instant DoT or HoT spells makes you very mobile I suspect

Most mobile class I have tried - ignore it in closed beta and wish I hadn't

A pair of AM's stacking dots and then healing the other if the group focus's on them just works wonders - can kite like no other class have seen yet

[Dmitrii]

I see this as a problem if you run with zero tanks, zero other healers, and group only with Witch Hunters, in which case you will probably be targeted last since they die so fast.

Do not worry, Healers are probably the most durable classes, especially when grouped with other healers and a competant tank.

[azxel]

definitely not the weakest.. strongest? perhaps.. I'm not sure but 1 on 1, the Archmage can take down almost any foe. Foes to look out for are the Witch Elves.. they hurt you bad... very bad... :grin:

[SpiritofWar]

Good to hear we have some survivability, would a duo of archmages be trouble for melee classes, in terms of keeping each other alive or is a tank / archmage a better choice to tag team.

My enemies tried to kill me in Preview Weekend RvR, but they died far more than I ever did.

I kept my realmmates alive for the most part and kept myself alive. I was so busy switching between healing and damage there was never a dull moment.

:D

[Thorbrand]

AM's are not easy to kill at all. I would tell the truth but I am going to play one so I can't...(OP)! 1v1 I don't care you won't kill me.