Ok, I can answer of the questions now...

[Brillig]

I’m sure someone will do a full write-up, but here’s the short answers now that the NDA is down:


Spores and seeds can drop from monsters. (In particular I got a lot of spores off Squigs.)
Butchering and scavenging can sometimes give components for cultivating as well.
The pot you grow in doesn’t take up any inventory room. You just hit your cultivating button and the window pops up.
Seeds, spores, soil, water, etc. DO take up room in your inventory.
The pot initially only has room for 1 plant at a time.
The plants grow in real time. (Typically about 2 minutes for a skill 1 plant.)

The only thing I dislike about cultivating is that you can’t add all of the optional items (like water) until the correct stage rolls around. You have to wait for the right time to add them. Here’s an example:

1) You open the pot window.
2) You pick a seed/spore to add. It starts growing right away. Two timers start counting down. One timer is the total time for the plant to finish, the other is for the first stage to end. The water and nutrient spots are red during this stage and you can’t add them.
3) (optional) You can add some soil during the first stage.
4) (optional) When the stage 1 timer ends you can then add water.
5) (optional) When the stage 2 timer ends you can add nutrients.

Each stage is about 45 seconds. This means that you have to watch the pot for about 2 minutes or so if you want to add all of the optional stuff. They really need to let you add the optional components at the start so you can go on and do other things. Most of the time I’d put in a spore and soil, then I’d close the window to kill something. I’d then completely forget to re-open the window and add the water later until the message “You have gained skill in cultivating” pops up on my screen because the plant is done.

That’s the short version of where cultivating is at this stage of the beta.

-Brillig

[Stratas]

Sounds pretty dismal at best. Not a lot of effort went into crafting from what Im gathering.

[Celestian]

Sounds pretty dismal at best. Not a lot of effort went into crafting from what Im gathering.

Cultivating is terrible. It takes 3 minutes to make a level 1 plant, a single plant and during that time you have to sit there and wait for the timer to tic and add the water/soil/etc when it's time. They seriously have to rework it so it's not this bad. Allow us to place multiple seeds/soil/water or something but 1 plant in 3 minutes ... who is going to have time to grow 10 plants to make 10 potions? That's 30 minutes just for the plants.
Apothecary isn't bad at all. put all the items in the mixer, hit make and repeat, about 2-3 seconds per pot.

I really hope the current cultivation scheme changes drastically because if it doesn't no one will bother. Make it work with the difficulty of scavenging/butchery.

[Sebrina]

Cultivating is terrible. It takes 3 minutes to make a level 1 plant, a single plant and during that time you have to sit there and wait for the timer to tic and add the water/soil/etc when it's time. They seriously have to rework it so it's not this bad. Allow us to place multiple seeds/soil/water or something but 1 plant in 3 minutes ... who is going to have time to grow 10 plants to make 10 potions? That's 30 minutes just for the plants.
Apothecary isn't bad at all. put all the items in the mixer, hit make and repeat, about 2-3 seconds per pot.

I really hope the current cultivation scheme changes drastically because if it doesn't no one will bother. Make it work with the difficulty of scavenging/butchery.

You mean you will not bother, I have no problem with waiting 2-3 minutes to make a recipe. I guess no one has ever played EQ2, that took time and a little bit of skill to get right, I enough a good crafting system unlike WoW's click here and go take a shower system.

[Celestian]

You mean you will not bother, I have no problem with waiting 2-3 minutes to make a recipe. I guess no one has ever played EQ2, that took time and a little bit of skill to get right, I enough a good crafting system unlike WoW's click here and go take a shower system.

I played EQ2 and it's crafting system (the one at release and the one today).

Anyway, if you like cultivating as it is compared to the other two (butchery/scavenging) then by all means, be the one to do it.

It will take loads of time and all you'll do is sit there and click. I thought Mythic was going for fun not boring/grind. The other skills aren't boring or grind, cultivating is.

Just to be clear, this isn't a recipe, it just makes a single plant that you then use in apothecary. It's also just 1 of 4 items used in Apothecary creation of a single potion.

It's definitely like the old school daoc crafting if you like that sorta thing. I really didn't myself. It was bad enough you had to go out and get all the materials but sitting and waiting (can't idle mind you, gotta place soil/water/etc at right time) for what will be hours on end to create a plants is beyond my patients.

Personally I hope they go for fun/quick so I can get back to killing people.

[mangocurry]

Sounds pretty dismal at best. Not a lot of effort went into crafting from what Im gathering.

They didn't want to implement crafting at all. They only introduced it because beta testers cried, a lot.

[Hericus]

I think they should just let us put all the ingredients in the pot at the beginning - soil, water and nutrients. They can add a time increase for every thing you put at the beginning. For example:

You can put seed and soil and the beginning - just like it is now.
You put in the water before the process begins - time for growth increases for 50%
You put in nutrients before the process begins - time for growth increases for 50%

So if you do not want to bother and really want to just plant the damn thing and continue playing the game then you should be able to do it. Only problem is that it will take twice as much time to grow the plant. I think I could live with that.

What are you opinions?

[theshadowdragon]

I think they should just let us put all the ingredients in the pot at the beginning - soil, water and nutrients. They can add a time increase for every thing you put at the beginning. ?

i think this could be a very good idea.. so the more/complex items you add the longer it would take.

not that i dislike the way it is now but this sounds like a good comprimise

Kazzarak the Dwarf

[dieter]

C'mon, get real people.

It is quite obvious that cultivating has to take some time. Otherwise it would be magic, not cultivating.

Nobody stops you from not using this skill, but you will need someday those plants, so either grow them yourself and take your time or buy from other ppl doing it.

Adding water and nutrients should cut the time needed for a plant to grow, not make it longer - logical. As a reward for patient players, the moment you use water/nutrients for a plant, time needed to grow should drop considerably, not other way around.

More than that - I would be glad to see, that a plant dies after some period, and even quicker if water/nutrients were not added.

[Cuth]

You don't have to sit there and wait for Cultivation to finish. You can pop the seeds into the soil and then go run a quest or whatever you want until you get the pop up message that it's done.

Great for people who don't want to grind a crafting skill instead of playing the game. Just pop a few seeds into your soil and get back to adventuring while they grow.

[Celestian]

You don't have to sit there and wait for Cultivation to finish. You can pop the seeds into the soil and then go run a quest or whatever you want until you get the pop up message that it's done.

Great for people who don't want to grind a crafting skill instead of playing the game. Just pop a few seeds into your soil and get back to adventuring while they grow.

Did you get a "pop up" for when to apply water and fertilizer? Cause I don't recall it doing that for me.

[Butters4071]

Did you get a "pop up" for when to apply water and fertilizer? Cause I don't recall it doing that for me.

You don't even need to add water and fertilizer, I'm not really sure what their point is in cultivating, at least at low levels. All I was adding was soil (not even sure if I had to do that...) and grinding an 8.5 minute quest reward seed that gave you a plant and a seed. I remember I would make some with water and some without, and the plants would stack in my inventory which would lead me to assume there is no difference. However I only got to cultivating 30 and got sick of spending too much money to make something that I didn't need or sold for 1/3rd of what I spent making it.

[Natarm]

I would like to add that if you think Cultivating is bad, never do farming as a Craft skill if you ever play LotRO. I had a friend who did that, and literally went to bed after setting up 100 planting combines. He woke up the next morning with 5 left to do.

To be more on topic, I would have to say that really, the point of Cultivation is making sure that you have all the materials for being an Apothecary. Consumables, as the WoW developers learned, are a powerful thing, and can turn hard encounters into easy ones with just the right sort of buffs. You have to take all those possible variables into effect when designing an encounter, and so the barrier to attaining such things much come in either rarity of base components or time invested in producing the item.

WAR simply chooses to make it a time investment as opposed to an item grind. I rather think thats the way it should be.

[Butters4071]

I still feel like cultivating was a grinding craft. Of course it isn't painful "smelt 17 copper bracers" but it's just walking around waiting a really long time to grow useless plants so you can plant an ok seed to maybe make a decent potion (or two) with. I was very excited when I just picked up cultivation and seeds were dropping fairly regularly, but probably ever since chapter 4 I have only got the 8.5 minute quest reward seed.

I was even more upset when I picked up scavenging on my chosen to find I was finding water, fertalizer, ingredients, and amazing looking talisman materials searching the dead.

Also, combined with alchemy I felt like I was leveling up even slower. Sure I was having fun growing plants and whathaveyou, but then having to spend my money on containers and at least water when I could already barely afford my skills. Again compared to my relatively rich chosen (granted I didn't have the desire for alchemy) cultivation just doesn't seem worth it to me. Sorry if I'm being too negative...

[shotgunbadger]

Honestly, untill you start getting decent quality stuff to add soil, water, and nutrients don't make a major impact, and even then, you can make a just fine product by just adding decent soil (at the begining) and being on your way.

But really, if waiting a few minutes is killing you, stop crafting. Yea of the crafts it's the most 'dull' because you have to watch it, but if you don't think butchering/scavenging is 'grindy' you're dellusional. You have to 'grind' your drops and hope for them still, the only difference is instead of spending a few minutes killing, say, Squigs for some fat ticks you spend a few minutes watching a cute little mushroom grow.

Would you rather have LotRO's boring grindfest? WoW's insane 'ok, make 30 poor quality bracers, then pay me ten silver and I'll teach you how to make good quality ones, then make 30 of them and pay me ten gold and you can make epic quality ones...maybe after this quest that is'? EQ2's just plain dumb crafting system?

You CAN'T make crafting as fun as running around killing people, but atleast WAR tried, and I feel, did a good job.

[Celestian]

But really, if waiting a few minutes is killing you, stop crafting. Yea of the crafts it's the most 'dull' because you have to watch it, but if you don't think butchering/scavenging is 'grindy' you're dellusional. You have to 'grind' your drops and hope for them still, the only difference is instead of spending a few minutes killing, say, Squigs for some fat ticks you spend a few minutes watching a cute little mushroom grow.

...

You CAN'T make crafting as fun as running around killing people, but atleast WAR tried, and I feel, did a good job.

First part, I disagree. Scavenging is anything but grinding. You are already killing humanoids (in RVR or PVE) for quests or defending your realm.

Second part, you can make crafting as fun as killing people, Scavenging does it! Not only do you get to kill the player you get to take their loot ... well, not THEIR loot but loot from their body which as far as I am concerned is the same thing. Not sure how they could do that for cultivating but they can certainly make it less of a chore so you can spend more time doing the killing bit ;)

I didn't realize that water/fertilizer had so little effect so I guess you can just add the soil/seed and ignore the rest and it's not so bad. However I still think they should let you drop in more than 1 seed or something, it requires 12 minutes for 4 plants which you could probably get quicker just killing/scavenging in RVR/PVE.

I've crafted in lotro, eq1, eq2, swg and every other mmo I've played, yeah I know some of it is not as bad as those but cultivating for me is on par with the most grindy of all of those including daoc's trade skills. My understanding was that they were going another direction with them and it seems they did with the others except cultivating.

I'll cross my fingers and try out cultivating this weekend and perhaps they'll make tweaks :-D. At the very least I won't sit there doing all 3 applications!

[Machineman]

Cultivating is terrible. It takes 3 minutes to make a level 1 plant, a single plant and during that time you have to sit there and wait for the timer to tic and add the water/soil/etc when it's time. They seriously have to rework it so it's not this bad.

Yup, I couldn't believe this mechanism. I thought I was doing something wrong, or misunderstanding. But to sit there and simply WAIT for something to happen for 3 minutes to get a weed, is.. .well, kind of silly given the twitchiness that they went for in most of the rest of the game. I am an avid fan of crafting but this bores me to tears.

The concepts are good, but the mechanism for it is the worst thing ever.

Ah well, another MMO with crafting potential lost...

[Butters4071]

The crafting potential isn't lost imo. Cultivating is just not worth the effort right now. I can just scavenge the mobs we're grinding in PQs and whathaveyou and collect many different ingredients for alchemy and many promising looking talismen materials. I think a scavenger/alchemist will be very fun (which I will test this weekend) but for now cultivating is just too long and not rewarding enough.

[DammazKron]

Ahhh.. why exactly were u waiting?. I spent my whole time in CB just cultivating on the Fly. Throw in a seed, chuck in some soil and keep doing what you were doing. If u see the prompts and aren't otherwise occupied you can add water and nutrients as you see fit. I can understand that the time investment seems a bit off if you stand there watching the plants grow. But it is a very simple thing to cultivate while questng. I didn't get a chance to try scavenging or butchering yet. I hope they are as amusing as cultivation.... mind you I'm an easily amused kind of guy :rolleyes:

[Brillig]

Yeah, there seems to be 2 ways to do it:

1) Watch the cultivating window the whole time, adding the water and nutrients at the right time.
2) Toss the seed and soil in, then close the window and do other stuff till it’s done.

I’ve done both, and at lower levels #2 seems more practical. Eventually you unlock more slots in your pot so that you can grow more than one thing at a time. At that point #1 might be less boring.

As for the advantages of adding the water and nutrients, I’ve seen 2:

1) When you add water or nutrients the time drops a little. (About 10 seconds, if I recall correctly.) So plants do grow a little faster if you’re caring for them.
2) I once got a seed in addition to the plant when I added the water and nutrients. Basically I got back the seed I started with in addition to the grown plant, but it cost me the water and nutrients to do it. This doesn’t happen every time, but my skill is still fairly low.

It’s possible that there are other special bonuses (rare blooms or whatever) that we won’t see until someone gets high enough skill. That said, I still think that you should be able to pick the water and nutrients at the start.

[Fergiejr]

As for the advantages of adding the water and nutrients, I’ve seen 2:

1) When you add water or nutrients the time drops a little. (About 10 seconds, if I recall correctly.) So plants do grow a little faster if you’re caring for them.
2) I once got a seed in addition to the plant when I added the water and nutrients. Basically I got back the seed I started with in addition to the grown plant, but it cost me the water and nutrients to do it. This doesn’t happen every time, but my skill is still fairly low.

It’s possible that there are other special bonuses (rare blooms or whatever) that we won’t see until someone gets high enough skill. That said, I still think that you should be able to pick the water and nutrients at the start.

Soil, Water and Netrients give some bonus to your crit chance. I have seen only one type a few times with cultivation and thats you get the seeds back with the end plant. with potion making I have gotten slightly better potions, and sometimes two of the same potion.

But as I have skilled up I have been able to use better soil, water and neutriants and have noticed that my crits gone up slightly. May have been luck but I think the higher the skill needed for the addon parts, the higher bonus it gives to your crit chance.

I am only at 34 skill points so not totaly sure, when I get to 50 I have a handful of seeds, soils, waters and neutriants that I can use and I am thinking that using them other than the 18 and 27 skill neutriants will have a dramatic increase in how well I crit or my end product *crosses fingers*

I am also hoping that at 50 skill my 2nd plot to grow in will open up :o

I'll report more as soon as I can but with preview weekend the CB servers have been closed and I am unsure if they are going to wipe them or not before OB on the 7th
*crosses fingers agian*

[Darkso1]

Yup, I couldn't believe this mechanism. I thought I was doing something wrong, or misunderstanding. But to sit there and simply WAIT for something to happen for 3 minutes to get a weed, is.. .well, kind of silly given the twitchiness that they went for in most of the rest of the game. I am an avid fan of crafting but this bores me to tears.

The concepts are good, but the mechanism for it is the worst thing ever.

Ah well, another MMO with crafting potential lost...

You know you dont have to sit there for 3 minutes...

Am I the only player that left the window open and ran around doing what I had to do, even pvping, and then simply opened my bag when needed and dragged in a ingredient? If you can talk on vent and play at the same time, you can leave the window open and play at the same time too. Also keep in mind, when you get more pots, you will be constantly planting at all times.

[sgtcasey]

I also did the run around doing other things while growing stuff. I do wish we would get more indication that the cultivation process has moved into the next stage.

I don't always see the text in the chat box saying the process has moved on and consequently miss a lot of chances to add water or a nutrient.

[LawLessOne]

I am having a problem with cultivating. I skilled up my cultivating to 27 and used some level 27 water I got to skill up to 28. Now I cant skill up cultivating anymore. I keep growing things, tried every spore and seed available from the Merchant but are not getting anymore skill ups. All I can get from the merchant are level 1 stuff for cultivating.

Am I missing something here or have I found a genuine bug?

[stinkypinkie]

From my experience, it seems that the plant will grow with or without the soil,water,nutrient.

Short-stemed Elvish parsly seeds take 9 mins to grow(3mins each phase). When I add Soil it lowers grow period to 2.5 mins/phase. Also the earlier you catch the phase the more time it seems to take off of the growing period.

Maybe it is a coicidence it also seems to give the havesting a higher chance of returning the seed back to you. Infact I have had one seed make 5 plants. If this is the case the harder to find seeds would be worth it to use soil,water,nutrients if they where to give a higher chance of returning your seed.

Also I am betting there are probably some combinations for plants that will be rather rare if there are some rare soil,water, and nutrients out there.

Also, If rare plants are suppose to take hours or days to finish growing I see having multiple pots a god send since you can use either 2 or 3 for the long growing plants and not be locked out of the short growing plants.

Also something insteresting. Short-stem elven Parsley seeds havests into Musty Elven parsley more than Short-stem elven parsley.

[Mercer7]

C'mon, get real people.

It is quite obvious that cultivating has to take some time. Otherwise it would be magic, not cultivating.


=D

I like it for this reason. Crafting shouldn't be a feature that lets you "add ingredient 1, 2, 3 and you get the good item!"

It should be some kind of work... I mean waiting 2 or 3 minutes? Sheesh, you could have completed 1/5 of a scenario! Lets not want things too easy.

[DurEdhil]

I did not see anyone mention that adding the items reduces the timer. With base (level 1) soil, water, nutrients you remove 10 seconds off of the 3 minute timer for each one you add. I have not gotten my Cultivating very high but I would imagine that the higher level items simply reduce the 3 minute timer further than 10 seconds.

Can anyone confirm?

[lucjan]

I am having a problem with cultivating. I skilled up my cultivating to 27 and used some level 27 water I got to skill up to 28. Now I cant skill up cultivating anymore. I keep growing things, tried every spore and seed available from the Merchant but are not getting anymore skill ups. All I can get from the merchant are level 1 stuff for cultivating.

Am I missing something here or have I found a genuine bug?

I skilled up my cultivating to 40 something, but to get past 30 you have to use scavenged water/soil and or butchery for nutrients. anything thats not lvl 1

[lucjan]

adding items did not reduce my timer at all in closed beta, using green seeds/and green water /soil and nutrient did not effect outcome one bit, still got just one plant, sometimes extra seed with it. seeds that you get from repeatable quest takes 9 minutes to grow, but in the end you always get the seed back and the plant that grew, unless I missed a step in water or others, then just the plant, no seed.

again using lvl 25-35 water/soil/ingr did not improve end product, did advance my skill past 30.

you get higher lvl water and soil from scavenge - nutrients from butchery.

Overall I did not enjoy it vs the rewards you get for it, so you grow your own shroom or whatever seed you have, end result (at least lover lvls) you can buy the same off of vendor for 50, so 3 minutes later plus the money spent for soil/water/nutr you are up maybe 10 copper or maybe out 10, dont remember the costs atm.

cutivating vs other gathering skills? well lets just say scavenge and butchery will yield rewards at a much faster rate.

Overall I was very dissapointed in cultivating at its current state, I hope they will fix that because I so want to cultivate in this game.:confused:

[LawLessOne]

I am having a problem with cultivating. I skilled up my cultivating to 27 and used some level 27 water I got to skill up to 28. Now I cant skill up cultivating anymore. I keep growing things, tried every spore and seed available from the Merchant but are not getting anymore skill ups. All I can get from the merchant are level 1 stuff for cultivating.

Am I missing something here or have I found a genuine bug?

I skilled up my cultivating to 40 something, but to get past 30 you have to use scavenged water/soil and or butchery for nutrients. anything thats not lvl 1

So..what you are telling me is that inorder to advance cultivation beyond 30 you have to have at least 2 other characters (one with scavenge and one with butchery) to support you? This is by design and not a bug?

I really detest that. At the very least they should provide level 30 items from the vendors.

[Silver]

I am going to cultivate. I'll be in combat in RvR or whatever and just keep a pile of seeds and relaunch a plant from time to time. I won't be adding any accelerators because I am not paying attention so there is no reason to accelerate it.

The main point of it though is to feed my apothecary skill, I figure the cultivated ingredients will be rarest because it seems like the most boring craft type.

[lucjan]

So..what you are telling me is that inorder to advance cultivation beyond 30 you have to have at least 2 other characters (one with scavenge and one with butchery) to support you? This is by design and not a bug?

I really detest that. At the very least they should provide level 30 items from the vendors.

Main one is scavenge, it add water and soil higher lvl's to your cultivating, also next lvl seeds and water you get off vendor is 50 (I think, can't be sure) and I do think it is by design.

[Machineman]

So..what you are telling me is that inorder to advance cultivation beyond 30 you have to have at least 2 other characters (one with scavenge and one with butchery) to support you? This is by design and not a bug

Well, you know, you COULD interact with other players with those skills.

[LawLessOne]

Well, you know, you COULD interact with other players with those skills.

I could try but a few coppers per seed isnt really worth anyone's time. Mostly scavengers and butchers will be vendoring their seeds to conserve bag space. They will be holding onto the more valuable items.

[LawLessOne]

Main one is scavenge, it add water and soil higher lvl's to your cultivating, also next lvl seeds and water you get off vendor is 50 (I think, can't be sure) and I do think it is by design.

That was my experience too. After the lvl 1 cultivation ingredients the next level was 50. They need to add level 25 ingredients to carry us through to 50.

[sgtcasey]

That was my experience too. After the lvl 1 cultivation ingredients the next level was 50. They need to add level 25 ingredients to carry us through to 50.

I agree 100%. After hitting 25 it seemed like the skill ups came very, very, very few and far between.

[Fixxer]

I like the system the way it is. Crafting (for me anyway) is something i do on my off time waiting on my friends and guild to get online. I dont think any crafting skill should cater to what is easy. This makes the items worth more because not everyone is willing to put the time and effort into it. As far as skills go, i think you should be able to get to the mid level plants just by poping in a seed and soil, but to get the high end plants you should have to add all your other mats. I also like the idea that you have to get mats from other gathering skills to progress. The harder it is do something, the better the item/outcome should be. If you dont want to spend the time on the skill then dont do it.

[Zuli]

What do we do with what we make? We can only take one crafting skill right? And if we switch to Apothecary we have to start back at 0 when we go back to cultivating. I saw an Auction tab at the mailbox, but where can we browse for things we want to buy so we know what to sell things for?

[Tudana]

the auction isnt unlocked yet for this OB, you`ll have to wait for launch i do believe.

[quik77]

it seems like the best way to get higher level seeds and materials is just to play the game, every single alt I have even without cultivating has a full inventory of seeds, so it seems again like some anti grind has gone into this:



best way to get seeds and soils and waters is to play the game and have friends/alts that have butcher/scavange
growing seeds can be a fire and forget (just add seed) or you can keep the window open invo open and add the soil/water/nutrients(which seem to lower grow time and up crit chance) while doing other things like playing the game
if you want to just grind the skills and sit at a merchant you run out of money and skillups and invo space fast, and get bored watching plants grow...
mailbox abuse is still a go to to mitigate lack of invo space (wheres my bank?)

so if crafting is boring you or you are complaining about waiting... why are you waiting? its not like wow where you channel and are a captive audience while it happens.

actually so far the only real limiter I've found in all crafting is the inventory space, *prays for crafting invo

[Onegai]

So..what you are telling me is that in order to advance cultivation beyond 30 you have to have at least 2 other characters (one with scavenge and one with butchery) to support you? This is by design and not a bug?

I really detest that. At the very least they should provide level 30 items from the vendors.

Are you forgetting this IS a Multiplayer Online Game? There's real people out there you can interact with and trade, creating a player based economy.
If you want everything from an NPC vendor you might as well just play a single player game.

[Darkbrew]

I guess no one has ever played EQ2, that took time and a little bit of skill to get right,

That sure brought back memories. Once I got to the mainland during the first day of release, I went to the crafting hall and decided to try out cooking. While I was attempting to combine "Salt & Pepper" at the stove and struggling to find the correct crafting buffs keys so I put it in my shortcut bar, I read the following message followed by lots of whoops and laughter from the other crafters...

"You take 842 points of fire damage. You die"

LOL now that was pretty hard core crafting.

[grymn]

Cultivation will be a lot more viable once people start doing custom UIs.

Imagine a cultivation window that's been stripped down to only essential information / text that is also opaque and / or pops up an onscreen message when stages advance and you need to take action.

You could be growing plants while you RvR with no problems.