My thoughts and advice on shaman

[Utakata]

NEW - 9/13/08: Some of this guide is outdated due to changed in patch 4.1. Will revise eventually.

Well I have played my shaman up to rank 22 so I'm mostly qualified to make a pretty decent guide. I have not participated in endgame but I have done a bit of everything from solo PvE to group PvE to solo PvP to group PvP to keep sieges to skirmish and everything in between.

So here's my thoughts.

Specs.

Path of Da Green is pretty much useless IMO. It basically focuses on taking away some stats for a limited amount of time. The amount that they take away really won't do much good on the overall battle. If the length of the debuffs were longer, like 5 minutes, then this would be a good tree to spec in. For now, the only good abilities that get buffed are Mork's Buffer which increases resistances by a LOT, and 'Ere We Go which is good if you're in a group all the time. Unfortunately, it's not good enough to overcome the other trees.

Path of Gork is pretty good, but it just doesn't cut it for your overall damage effect on a battle. Even specced completely into Gork you're not going to be doing amazing amounts of damage. Although speccing partially into Gork is a very good idea if you want any solo capabilities at all.

Path of Mork is amazing. The things you get from it are hands down jaw dropping. The rank 4 morale ability isn't all that good though.

Personal build: http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=7#13:10240:9:512:0:0

Mastery ability/tactic choices.

Shrug It Off is pretty much necessary in my opinion. The numbers on that spell when you're a higher level are just insane.

Pass It On is a really good tactic for healing as well.

Da Waaagh! Is Coming is important for RvR. If you're a PvE player you can probably skip that and spend your points somewhere better like Lookit What I Did.

General solo PvE/PvP role.

At rank 22 my fights basically go like this. First I put Don' Feel Nuthin on myself. I then immediately cast Bunch o' Waaagh. The bubble stops my casting from getting pushed back, and I can get all 4 hits off.

Bunch o' Waaagh works like this, it's a 6 second channel, when you first cast it, it does it's initial damage. Two seconds later it hits again, two seconds later it hits again, and then two seconds later it hits a final time. If you take damage while channeling, it pushes back your cast by approximately 1 second, so for every 2 hits you lose 1 of your hits with it, so it behooves you to put a shield on yourself before you cast it.

Then I throw Life Leaka and Bleed Fer Me on the enemy. Then I throw 'Ey, Quit Bleedin on myself. If the mob takes longer to kill I will cast another Bunch o' Waaagh, this time without the shield since you'll be running out of AP and you usually don't need it to finish off the mob. If that isn't enough put your DOTs back on the mob and your HOT on yourself and continue fighting without your shield. If you're taking too much damage, pop your shield and use Gork'll Fix It on yourself. I personally didn't even buy Bigger, Better, An' Greener because it's not very AP efficient.

Oh and as for AP efficiencies, don't use Brain Bursta or Big Waaagh!, why you ask?

Let's look at some numbers.

AP efficiency.

(As of my rank 22 shaman)

Bunch o' Waaagh 768 damage for 78 AP. That's approximately 1 AP = 10 damage

Brain Bursta 166 damage for 30 AP. That's approximately 1 AP = 5 damage

Big Waaagh! 249 damage for 50 AP. That's approximately 1 AP = 5 damage

As far as the DOTs go...

Life Leaka is 280 damage for 30 AP. That's approximately 1 AP = 9 damage and it's an instant cast so you get back to your AP regen quicker, as well as don't suffer from setbacks from getting hit. Only downside is it takes 15 seconds to fully complete.

Bleed Fer Me is 352 damage for 40 AP. That's approximately 1 AP = 9 damage as well AND it's an instant cast AND you give that 352 HP to your defensive target as well. Only downside is that it takes 24 seconds to fully complete.

Also don't use Bigger, Better, An' Greener for similar reasons.

Numbers.

'Ey Quit Bleeding is 900 healed for 30 AP. That's exactly 1 AP = 30 healed, and it's an instant cast. Downside is it takes 15 seconds to fully complete.

Gork'll Fix It is 132 healed instantly + 354 healed over 9 seconds for 60 AP. That's altogether about 500 healed for 60 AP. That's 1 AP = 10 healed, but it's a pretty quick cast time and if you get the tactic Lookit What I Did then it also restores 40 AP to your target. That means if you use it on yourself it's about 500 healed for 20 AP. That's 1 AP = 25 healed, and over a much shorter time span than 'Ey Quit Bleeding.

Meanwhile you look at Bigger, Better, An' Greener and it's 600 healed for 50 AP. That's 1 AP = 12 healed BUT it takes 3 times as long to cast than Gork'll Fix It AND it's a fragile spell so if you get hit you're resetting back to 3 more seconds to cast. It's only good if you're healbotting a single person (like a tank for a PQ / dungeon) and you don't have the Lookit What I Did tactic.

NEW 8/20/08 - In addition, since Gork'll Fix It is a 1s cast, and Bigger, Better, An' Greener is a 3s cast, and you gain 25 AP/s while not casting or on the GCD (1.5s), then that means if two shamans cast an ability simultaneously (one Gork'll Fix It, one Bigger, Better, An' Greener) then the shaman who casts Gork'll Fix It will have 1.5s of regen time or theoretically 37 AP regen while the other shaman is still casting and not regening any AP. So technically speaking, Gork'll Fix It only costs 23 AP for 500 healed in relation to Bigger, Better, An' Greener which still costs 50 AP for 600 healed. That makes Gork'll Fix It do 1 AP = 22 healed. And if you combine that with Lookit What I Did and cast it on yourself... that's a whopping -17 AP for 500 healed in direct comparison to Bigger, Better, An' Greener.

If that was a little too complex for you, let me explain it in a more tangible way.

Let's say Shaman 1 starts with 100 AP and 100/1000 HP. Shaman 2 starts with the same. Shaman 1 casts Gork'll Fix It on himself and has the tactic Lookit What I Did. Shaman 2 casts Bigger, Better, An' Greener on himself. 3 seconds later, Shaman 1 has 117 AP and 350/1000 HP, and has a HOT on him that will heal an additional 240 over 6 seconds. Shaman 2 has 50 AP and 700/1000 HP. If we assume there will be no basic HP regen, then 6 seconds later Shaman 1 has 590/1000 HP and 242 AP, while Shaman 2 has 700/1000 HP and 175 AP. Even our least effective healing spell is 1 AP = 10 HP, so to even the HP for comparison purposes, Shaman 1 has 700/1000 HP and AT LEAST 231 AP, while Shaman 2 has the same amount of HP but only 175 AP. (For those who are curious, without Lookit What I Did, the numbers would be Shaman 1 has 700/1000 HP and at least 191 AP while Shaman 2 has the same amount of HP but only 175 AP)

So yeah, moral of the story is this: Bigger, Better, An' Greener is good for spamming when your target is dying faster than you can heal, but it's a big waste of AP.

General group PvE/PvP role.

Basically your group role is a bit more of a healer. You can of course choose not to heal but you simply won't have as big of an effect on the overall battle. Most of my group battles consist of me throwing 'Ey, Quit Bleeding on anyone taking damage. I will then toss Bleed Fer Me on something with a lot of health (since it takes 24 seconds to fully execute and it's a waste of AP to use it on something that's about to die) and have my defensive target be whoever is taking the most damage. If someone's really dying fast I will resort to using Gork'll Fix It and Don' Feel Nuthin. 'Ere We Go is good as well if everyone in your group is right in the fray doing damage. Currently my 'Ere We Go is 70 bonus damage to everyone's next attack for 25 AP. If everyone in my group utilizes that, that's 420 damage for 25 AP or about 1 AP = 17 damage, that's more than my direct damage spells. Also while healing, be sure to use your Gork waaagh! whenever you hit 5. If you don't, you're wasting efficiency. I usually use my Gork waaagh! for either Bleed Fer Me or Bunch o' Waaagh. Make sure you have someone who's taking damage be your defensive target for Bleed Fer Me.

Last thing is rezzing. Rezzing is very important for the overall battle. When someone dies try to get a rez off ASAP before they release. The most frustrating thing is either a) healers who don't rez or b) people who assume healers won't rez and release just before my cast finishes. The shaman is really useful in rezzing because every point of Mork waaagh! decreases the rez cast time by 1.2 seconds, all the way down to instant if you have 5 points.

General Tips.

Whenever possible hold off on healing or damage to get extra waaagh! points. It'll really help the overall battle. If you use Gork then Mork then Gork you get no bonuses, but if you use 5 Gork then 6 Mork then 6 Gork (6 because the first cast doesn't give a waaagh!) then your effect on the battle will be much greater. Unfortunately you usually don't have the liberty to take that long using only one god, because using Gork to get 5 points for Mork can put your allies in danger since you failed to heal for the past however many seconds. So the basic premise is, try to get really high waaagh! points whenever possible.

So yeah I hope I helped you make some good decisions on your build as well as your skill choices and overall effectiveness on the battlefield. Go out there and WAAAGH! for me. Destruction shall prevail.

NEW: 8/25/08

Good thoughts in the thread:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1192464&postcount=14
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1203255&postcount=18
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1291823&postcount=52

Read the thread for possible additional input.

[MrBoo]

So, utaakata. Can shamans outheal a shadow warrior /bright wizards dps? They sound hard becuase of their heal debuffs.

[Utakata]

The only class I've had a problem with thus far is the Swordmaster. The others I can't say have been too hard or too easy.

[AxeMaverick]

You, sir, have converted me from Witchcraft Zealot.

I am SO friending you.

[tyrint]

I might even convert myself. Zealot is making me cry.

[MrBoo]

lol noobs if utakata isnt on your friendlists already your a noob anyways:confused:



*friends him *:confused:

[IceBlade]

Group heal is insane. At rank 27 with all points in Mork it was healing for 700 when Bigger, Better n' Greener was healing for just over 1000 (sorry I didnt take exact numbers, this was with around 450 willpower). It doesn't suffer from the same fragility as the aforementioned heal, and with 10% crit heal tactic + 40 AP/3 seconds tactic it is almost guaranteed to get you 40 AP back over 3 seconds. The range on it is around 150ft.
Also note that Gork'll Fix It is in fact a 2 second cast and sometimes incorrectly gets reported on the client as a 1 second cast.
Bunch o' Waagh does not allow you to regenerate AP while channeling, does not get you as nearly as much WAAGH as brain bursta spam for the AP you get. You pretty much rely on AP steal to get enough AP to run its full course.
Later on you get items which affect AP regeneration rate so this is an important factor to consider when it comes to AP efficiency.

[Utakata]

Added an additional analysis of Gork'll Fix It vs Bigger, Better, An' Greener.

EDIT - Gork'll Fix It is a 2s cast? It says 1s on my tooltip in-game, and seems to only take about a second... I'll have to check again in preview weekend. That'd throw off some of my recent numbers.

And yeah group heal is really good if you got a lot of people hurt. And the animation is THE BEST spell animation in the game IMO. Except that one that's like the crazy black tentacle things that remind me of Shadow of the Colossus.

[IceBlade]

It's quite possibly the second coolest thing for a Shaman to have, next to a wolf mount. They are awesome.

[Myling]

Very nice guide there Utakata.

But something confuses me. You start out by saying that Shrug it off is pretty much necessary, but later when you talk about your group battles you never mention using that spell.

Other then that, helpful guide. :D

EDIT: I also noticed that in your Mastery build you skiped ''Do Sumfin Useful'' and ''I'll take That!''. Care to explain why? Seem like useful spells to me. (I'm not in beta so i'm just guessing here. ;))

[Utakata]

Because you need to be at least rank 29 to use Shrug It Off :)

As for Do Sumfin Useful, it's pretty good. I don't remember how long the buff lasts, but I don't think it's really that long.

As for I'll Take That, it's also good.

I simply didn't include those 2 because I didn't have room in my mastery build for them. I felt that getting Da Waaagh Is Coming and Shrug It Off were more important, and left me no room to get those abilities. Thus, I didn't talk about them.

I talked about Big Waaagh because it was a warning NOT to get it if you're temped to, since it sucks. The others are good so I won't tell you not to get them.

[Doomulus]

Don't feel nuthin' says it's only usuable on groupmates. But you can actually use it on yourself?

[Utakata]

Yes you count as a groupmate.

[Fengo]

I enjoyed your write up and had a few comments from my own experience.

Path of Green, I agree, Hopefully they will do more work on the Shaman trees in the next few weeks before launch. This tree is pretty limited and the only thing that currently has me interested is Gork's Barbs. This ability seems like it uses a mechanic like Gork sez Stop to help us against our biggest threat, melee dpsers. (If they don't stop attacking you they take more damage) At the moment though with the 2 second cast timer, and the short debuff timer, it's not that great yet.

I might be more of a defensive player but I haven't found much in the Gork tree to really get me excited. More damage is nice, but nothing in the tree really looks that appealing to me at this stage. Da Waaagh is Coming seems nice to have if you like doing damage, but I tend to have problems with most abilities that have cast timers longer then 2 seconds. On top of that it seems like a weak aoe.

Two abilities which I find I use very often are Yer not so bad, and Gettin Smarter.
YNSB is really nice because you always have that extra ap trickling and in pvp you're stealing it from the enemy, which means they have less ap to use against you. Gettin' Smarter for me is similar. Instant cast ability that gives me a nice dps boost for all of my offensive dots.

I feel Do Somfin Useful, is one that you might want to reconsider picking up as it is yet another instant cast no cooldown HoT. The buff on it isn't always needed, but it is a nice addition to the HoT.

I also tend to pick up Nuthin but the Waagh for shielding a pbaoer right when they move in. An extra 15% damage can be really helpful for zerg fights, and could also be used in pve to help a tank get extra aggro.

Again I account most of this to having a different mindset when I play. Its nice to have a class that has multiple ways of speccing in the same tree.

Fengo

[vagabond]

you take the tactic pass it on (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1951) , how does it scale?

[Grimsnot]

Thanks for the guide im pretty much soild on being a Mork Shammie with the left over points in Gork

[Zied]

I'm wondering if a build using "I'll take that" to build waagh! would be good. If anyone has tested this ability out I'd like to know how it is. I haven't got to play yet but I'm learning more every day about this class.

[Hagger]

Yeah Path of Da Green is pretty worthless, but Gork isn't that bad. It gets a whole lot better at higher level, although low to mid level range it is only really good for PvE. Personally I play Gork spec most of the time because it allows me to kill people and heal as well. Although you lose some pretty big survivability from Mork if you don't get the 2nd instant HoT. I am not sure what I will do upon release but I was thinking of stopping at the 2nd hot and putting the rest in gork. I am not really sure yet.

It depends on your playstyle how much you like Gork, I love to dps people and heal at the same time because I feel the amount of damage you do a long with the WAAAGH you generate for healing is pretty nice. Big Wagh nuke is also really good when you combine it with Ere' We Go. I think Gork is about where it should be with maybe Brain Busta being actually affected by Gork mastery. (pretty sure it doesn't affect it right now and if it does it is very minor) I have been pretty successful with Gork spec (full spec) at all level tiers doing moderate damage and being one of the top if not the top healer in Scenarios.

[Legendary]

Really short read, yet surprisingly informative. I may keep the Shaman in mind because of this.

[Mel]

Just my own thoughts on the 3s heal. Its your bread and butter for RvR healing. Even if it less AP effecient, its much safer to heal your allies with it, and it takes very little conservation to not ever run out of AP even using just Bigger better and greener. The hots simply cant keep someone up who is under fire.

[warhammerowns]

I love having one of these back me up! Theyre probably one of the best classes at being able to attack AND heal!

[Yarth]

Interesting build and read. Too bad wardb dont count the extra mastery points you get from Renown. So we can't setup "proper" capped builds yet.

[Utakata]

Added commemoration at the end of the OP.

May add more periodically.

[Monkey Aids]

Every time i think about it i am leaning more and more towards shaman and less to zealot, oh what to do...

[ThePlague]

Thanks for the guide....i am looking forward to play a shaman.

[Hagger]

Interesting build and read. Too bad wardb dont count the extra mastery points you get from Renown. So we can't setup "proper" capped builds yet.

You don't get extra mastery points from Renown.

[Torcher999]

You don't get extra mastery points from Renown.

You kinda do, just not at lower RR's as you currently are on.

[Monkey Aids]

Interesting build and read. Too bad wardb dont count the extra mastery points you get from Renown. So we can't setup "proper" capped builds yet.


That's not true you can easily do it by clicking on the bottom left hand corner where their is an golden arrow pointing up and says "Point Cap: 25"

[cripling]

"Players can gain 25 mastery points by reaching rank 40, and can gain 5 more by reaching renown rank 80"

The reason why every1 does 25 points build is that 90% of them wont be RR80 lol

[robaroo]

Nice guide. Lookin forward to playing shammy.

[IceBlade]

Getting to RR80 will be a lot, lot harder than getting to rank 40, and will basically reward those people who stick with one character all the way. Last I heard it was over 5 million RP to get to RR80.

[gmanvbva]

I sorta disagree with "Da Green" path being worthless. Especially for group RvR.

There seems to be a ton of melee train stopping power in that line and some abilities to further augment your melee DPS.

Although the 3 sec cast time on Sticky Feetz concerns me.

[ndogggg]

Sticky Feet's cast time, duration, and small radius make me think it is pretty much meant for small chokepoints like keep hallways and doorways. Open field it just seems too little for too short a time to be a useful kiting or offensive tool.

Maybe if it was 1s cast, 10s duration, 30s cooldown, or still 3s cast but 10s cooldown, or something similar.

[ndogggg]

Oh, and in general, I feel like the Shaman's 'core' tactics are so strong that the mastery tactics really pale in comparison. Maybe for a high Gork nuker Shaman, but at least for combat-healer I feel core tactics like Git Outta Here, Dat Makes Me Dizzy, RUN AWAY, Burst O' Waagh, Ain't Done Yet, and Restorative Burst give you more good options than you can even use without adding any mastery tactics.

Dat Makes Me Dizzy feels ripe for nerfing, btw; 5s seems more appropriate considering an un-waagh'd rez is sort of like being 'stunned' for 6s, except it can be interrupted or made even longer.

[gmanvbva]

Sticky Feet's cast time, duration, and small radius make me think it is pretty much meant for small chokepoints like keep hallways and doorways. Open field it just seems too little for too short a time to be a useful kiting or offensive tool.

Maybe if it was 1s cast, 10s duration, 30s cooldown, or still 3s cast but 10s cooldown, or something similar.

Or stopping a 2-3 man melee train. 3 sec cast time or not, it seems to be one of the better CC abilities.

Throwing that on a melee train is going to pretty much nullify their melee DPS for 15-20 seconds.

[war0104]

Or stopping a 2-3 man melee train. 3 sec cast time or not, it seems to be one of the better CC abilities.

Throwing that on a melee train is going to pretty much nullify their melee DPS for 15-20 seconds.

When I look at eeek(core spell knockback) plus the tactic with Gork's Geddoff, it makes sticky, look more like an alternative option, IF I went green.

3 seconds is huge in war :(

[Monkey Aids]

I know you said path of da green is useless but there are two abilities that are simply awesome... what do you guys think of these two builds...

Mork/DaGreen (http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=7#13:10240:0:0:10:0:25) - lvl 40
Mork/DaGreen (http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=7#13:10240:0:0:13:10240:30) - lvl 40 + RR80 (really shines, i love the last two ablilites i speced in DaGreen godly PvP)



Mork/Gork (http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=7#13:10240:10:0:0:0:25) - lvl 40
Mork/Gork (http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=7#13:10240:13:10240:0:0:30) - lvl 40 + RR80


Which one do you think will be better overall? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also wouldn't Sticky Feet's cast time go down with whaaag?

[ndogggg]

Or stopping a 2-3 man melee train. 3 sec cast time or not, it seems to be one of the better CC abilities.

Throwing that on a melee train is going to pretty much nullify their melee DPS for 15-20 seconds.

No way a 10 yard, 10s spell will nullify even the most incompetent of melee for 15-20 seconds. Either someone isn't getting healed with 2-3 people beating on them because you're casting it, or you're the target and it's never going to complete.

And if you DO complete it, it'll take 5s at most to run through it, while their target--almost certainly 40% snared themselves--gets maybe 10 feet of breathing room. Except, some snares last 10s, so maybe they get 10 feet out, the melee get clear of the effect, and in 2-3 seconds they're right back on their target.

[gmanvbva]

I think you seriously underestimate group dynamics, proper spacing and prekiting/kiting.

Also, most balanced groups are not going to have a single healer (in fact a shaman will probably not even be the primary healer) and there are many other damage mitigating options that could be used to help slow a melee trains damage for 3-5secs.

It's just another option, not an IWIN button.

From what I saw in PW, there were a fair amount of groups running 2-3 man melee trains and it would not be very difficult at all to catch them on a 30' radius spell.

[ndogggg]

I think you seriously underestimate group dynamics, proper spacing and prekiting/kiting.




Yes, that must be it.

Even old 30second Thorn Weed Field, instant cast, rarely nullified melee dps for 15-20 seconds...and its radius was far larger.

Melee aren't mobs, they're going to get out of it, and even the most incompetent will be out of a 10-yard radius spell before its short 10 seconds is up. Meanwhile a healer possibly got the target of the assist train killed by casting an inept CC ability that they had to give up some healing potential to even have! And I never said or intoned that the Shaman would be the sole or main healer, don't straw-man, but 3 melee on someone and you think they won't need all the healing available? I know I'd kick the Shaman out first thing!

[Delillo]

Maybe its the Guild Wars player in me, but I look at the path of the green and see a great spike team specialist.

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1902

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1957

so for a level 40 shaman who is spec'd in da green this spell will do 187(or more) x 2 x 6 = 2244 damage from this ability.

Most spikes work with one long cast DD followed by a smaller instant to provide the smallest window of damage, thus delivering that 2244 damage to a single player within a one second window. Thats above and beyond normal spike damage from the rest of the team and what the shaman will do himself.

Throw in sticky feet and you've debuffed the enemy's elemental resistance so that all that ere we go damage (elemental)is higher.

Gork's barbs also seems like an essential skill for beating any melee character.

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1905
http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1918

both of which can be recast at the end of their duration give alot of survivability to the shaman.

Da Green is a mastery line that is built for group utility and so its benefits may not become completely apparent until players get deeper into the game and start running better organized, even specialized groups.

[Delillo]

Yes, that must be it.

Even old 30second Thorn Weed Field, instant cast, rarely nullified melee dps for 15-20 seconds...and its radius was far larger.

Melee aren't mobs, they're going to get out of it, and even the most incompetent will be out of a 10-yard radius spell before its short 10 seconds is up. Meanwhile a healer possibly got the target of the assist train killed by casting an inept CC ability that they had to give up some healing potential to even have! And I never said or intoned that the Shaman would be the sole or main healer, don't straw-man, but 3 melee on someone and you think they won't need all the healing available? I know I'd kick the Shaman out first thing!

Not every shaman is built to heal. Da green is a specialized path that provides a different kind of support to a group. Now obviously sticky feetz in an open world fight between single groups would have less utitlity that its huge value in any siege or chokepoint situation. Between scenarios and fortresses, and city sieges, this ability will have tons of value. I think you are forgetting also that once sticky feet is cast it creates a "safe area" for friendlies. Yes, an opponent can move out of the area, thats why you want to be in it. Again, this is a guild wars style ability- aka a ward.

[gmanvbva]

Not every shaman is built to heal. Da green is a specialized path that provides a different kind of support to a group. Now obviously sticky feetz in an open world fight between single groups would have less utitlity that its huge value in any siege or chokepoint situation. Between scenarios and fortresses, and city sieges, this ability will have tons of value. I think you are forgetting also that once sticky feet is cast it creates a "safe area" for friendlies. Yes, an opponent can move out of the area, thats why you want to be in it. Again, this is a guild wars style ability- aka a ward.

Exactly. Like I said (ndoggg), I don't see it being a IWIN but it definitely sounds like a very viable option. Especially in a game that only has limited duration CC.

Also, i think it seems fairly reasonable for it to slow a melee down for 15 secs,
If used properly. Sometimes it will, sometimes it wont.

And again, I healing is certainly not the only way to mitigate melee damage and a healer/shaman is not the only class that can fill this role.

[gmanvbva]

Also Lookit What I Did looks like it could be useful.

Restores action points when using a Heal/Hot (Gork'll Fix It).

[ndogggg]

I have not at any point insinuated that Shamans are the only healers or can only be healers. If you have to project this onto me to feel you're 'winning' an argument on theorycrafting then, fine, whatever.

What I *am* saying, is that Sticky Feet requires a serious commitment to Da Green line, and for what you give up potentially it should be a pretty powerful ability. I find it completely lackluster, for the reasons I listed and because of what else a Shaman can do. There is an opportunity cost to any ability this far up in any line, for any class.

Furthermore, the statement that it could derail melee dps for 15-20 seconds is just not realistic, and if the ability needs that kind of exaggerated whitewash to seem good, then I can't imagine it actually being good.

Yes it's a tool, yes it probably will have some usefulness. I still contend for that cast time, duration, and radius it is very lacking. I am not saying the CONCEPT of the skill is flawed or useless, which for some reason you are arguing I am saying. I am saying that the numbers involved don't stack up, and the skill could use tweaking in some way--radius, cast time, cooldown--to justify its place in a fairly lightweight line.

[war0104]

I have not at any point insinuated that Shamans are the only healers or can only be healers. If you have to project this onto me to feel you're 'winning' an argument on theorycrafting then, fine, whatever.

What I *am* saying, is that Sticky Feet requires a serious commitment to Da Green line, and for what you give up potentially it should be a pretty powerful ability. I find it completely lackluster, for the reasons I listed and because of what else a Shaman can do. There is an opportunity cost to any ability this far up in any line, for any class.

Furthermore, the statement that it could derail melee dps for 15-20 seconds is just not realistic, and if the ability needs that kind of exaggerated whitewash to seem good, then I can't imagine it actually being good.

Yes it's a tool, yes it probably will have some usefulness. I still contend for that cast time, duration, and radius it is very lacking. I am not saying the CONCEPT of the skill is flawed or useless, which for some reason you are arguing I am saying. I am saying that the numbers involved don't stack up, and the skill could use tweaking in some way--radius, cast time, cooldown--to justify its place in a fairly lightweight line.

For what it's worth I think you have a point, I don't feel "green" is, as worth it, as speccing in the dark rites line is, for a zealot. Some of the best things in the green imo is the tactics more than the abilities... And shamans already have plenty of nice core tactics vs zealots imo. I don't think I'll have any problem organizing cookie tactics for my zealot but I already know, I'm going to want to do lots of switching for my shaman.

Green on the flip side will probably be nice for someone who wants to spec group support thoroughly, but lets face it, avg joe will be speccing something that can be used for themself, or for group and themself, than a line more dedicated to just the group.

[Utakata]

Maybe its the Guild Wars player in me, but I look at the path of the green and see a great spike team specialist.

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1902

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1957

so for a level 40 shaman who is spec'd in da green this spell will do 187(or more) x 2 x 6 = 2244 damage from this ability.

Most spikes work with one long cast DD followed by a smaller instant to provide the smallest window of damage, thus delivering that 2244 damage to a single player within a one second window. Thats above and beyond normal spike damage from the rest of the team and what the shaman will do himself.

Throw in sticky feet and you've debuffed the enemy's elemental resistance so that all that ere we go damage (elemental)is higher.

Gork's barbs also seems like an essential skill for beating any melee character.

http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1905
http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1918

both of which can be recast at the end of their duration give alot of survivability to the shaman.

Da Green is a mastery line that is built for group utility and so its benefits may not become completely apparent until players get deeper into the game and start running better organized, even specialized groups.

Yes Ere We Go, Mork's Buffer, and some of the other Path of Da Green stuff is really good. Thing is I don't think it outweighs the usefulness you get from the other trees is all.

[gmanvbva]

I have not at any point insinuated that Shamans are the only healers or can only be healers. If you have to project this onto me to feel you're 'winning' an argument on theorycrafting then, fine, whatever.

You are not insinuating that they are the only healers or can only be healers. But you are insinuating that they are the only healer (or the only one capable of mitigating damage for 3 secs) in the group by stating that choosing to cast this instead of heal (for 3 secs) a group member will likely die without your heals.

Healing also does not provide your target any escapability, it simply keeps them alive. If this is support they are nullified and the enemy group is tied up two of your 6 resources until you somehow deal with them. Even if it slows them for 8-10 secs, that is still 8-10 secs two people are not tied up and two of theirs are. That can swing a close fight.

You drop Sticky Feetz in front of a melee train, say it snares them for 5 secs (or does anyone caught in the ward get the 10 sec duration?) before they get out. This should allow their initial target to reposition and force them to pick a new target (2-3 secs) and it could easily take them 5 secs to reach their new target (or even more if people are aware and keeping proper spacing/kiting). That is 13 seconds and I feel it is a very reasonable "theory". Of course if your group all stands in a 40 ft radius, never mind...

And I already voiced my concern about the 3 sec cast time.

My point was that I do not see the line being completely worthless as was previously stated.

Path of Da Green is pretty much useless IMO.

It is all theory at this point since I have not even seen how these spells (most of them) truly work and I am just going off the descriptions.

[NefariousSiN]

I had fun Playing a shaman over the free weekend. If my guild wasn't going Order I would play one in release.. Over all it was just a great class to play..
http://www.afraidyet.net/photoplog/images/59/1_Dainkbudz_M_008.jpg

[Dalco]

Thank you OP for the info i am now planning to roll a shaman in open beta. :)

[AnjinSan1966]

Thank you Utakata for this excellent thread,i was gonna roll a Shaman all the time but this really hit the spot.Now we just wait for the 7th of sept i guess :cool:

[Daisy]

Completely disagree that Da Green tree is useless. If you play in organised groups which can afford to have slightly less healing per sec (maybe a heal spec zealot, dmg/buff spec dok, buff spec shammy, plus your tank and 2 others) then a spec such as this (http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=7#7:32:0:0:13:10784:25:1957:1944:59 2:1943::::1964:695:696:697) is pretty rediculous!!

Presuming as an organised group that you are using assist trains etc, and coordinating focus..
aoe snare (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1927) every 30 seconds (zerg killer, ideal to place infront of fleeing enemies or for keeping healers within range to be aoe'd).
Ere we go again (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1957) means that your ere we go (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1902) skill is giving your dps an extra 350ish damage every 10 seconds!! and in addition.. couple this with the core tactic Get Movin' (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1944) .. means that they will each gain 300 morale points for doing so... every 10 seconds!!
You'z squishy (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1916)... aoe toughness debuff, gives a really nice boost in dps against affected targets.. costs ONLY 20ap, instant cast so can obviously be kept up indefinately on the WHOLE of a zerg with carefully placed casts..... (OP'd!!)
Gorks barbs (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1905) is pretty much self explanatory and can do serious amounts of dmg to careless WH's and will pretty much kill a WL's pet unless they retreat it.
Now give yourself Discipline (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=592) and extra special mushrooms (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1940) to balance up your heals and possibly git outa here (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1943) which can turn you into a pretty offensive knockback machine or help you get out of sticky spots (coupled with sticky feetz (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1927), gork sez stop (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1964), gorks barbs (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1905)why would any melee jump you?!?)

While I agree that for people who will just be playing in PUGs or fairly casual, you're prob best going deep gork etc, I think that those serious players who will be playing organised (I hope that's a lot of us :)) will agree that you can't write off Da Green tree at all.. quite the opposite

Keep it Green...
Daisy <3

[Anhile]

Coulden't agree more Daisy you speak da truth! /Batman out

[Vrugzy]

Nice guide. Thank you for posting this. I only got my shaman to level 20 during beta, but I agree with just about everything that you mention related to the class.

[Utakata]

Daisy - I added your post to 'good insight' at the end of the OP.

Like I said, I think Da Green is good but just not as good as Gork or Mork in overall worth. I guess it depends on your playstyle though. Personally I'm solo quite a bit so I suppose that's why I put it so low on the spectrum.

[Newprince]

Da Waaagh is Coming seems nice to have if you like doing damage, but I tend to have problems with most abilities that have cast timers longer then 2 seconds. On top of that it seems like a weak aoe.


Uh, Gork's Waaagh reduces casting time ;)

Also, I'm not sure I understand why you think Gettin' Smarter is better than The Waaagh Is Coming, when you look at what they offer repsectively. But... eh

EDIT: BTW, I'm not sure the OP is really on point with his observations. Even though I too will be Mork/Gork, I only do that because I like the HoT/DoT playstyle. I see no problem with going Da Green, and I might even try it out at a later time. The AoE snare is not to be discounted in open field RvR, scenarios, and keep take scenarios. Debuffing elemental resistance so heavily... well, I'm sure you can see why that would be good.

How could you say Bigger, Better, n Greener is useless? I mean, this all goes back to the dynamics of the class.

Build up a 5 point of either Mork or Gork, so your 3 second casts become instant. I don't see why this was left out of your analysis.

[Cully]

Hi folks,i admit to not reading full thread,i will do now :)
So far im loving WAR but am still a newbie.
I realise WAR is mainly an rvr mmo but will it have pve dungeons like wow ?as this is the only reason i played wow for so long.
The reason i ask is i enjoy healing,i also love the shaman but just wonder if his heals will be enough to keep up a full group in pve dungeons [if indeed there are pve dungeons in WAR]?

You see for such dungeons i like to have THE best healer class possible but really like the shaman.
If there are a lot of dungeons and raids i can see myself wanting to go Zealot if not then ill stick with shaman.

[Utakata]

I didn't play a zealot but I did play a runepriest (zealot mirror). I think the shaman is VERY comparable to the runepriest/zealot in terms of healing output. If fact many people might argue that if played correctly, a shaman could out-heal a zealot. The only class you will not be able to main heal with is disciple/warrior priest.

[Meshuggenah]

can anyone confirm (from experience, not guesstimations =P) whether "pass it on" procs from HoT ticks?

.. and also, does the heal value scale up with willpower and mork spec?

[Kersenka]

I sorta disagree with "Da Green" path being worthless. Especially for group RvR.

There seems to be a ton of melee train stopping power in that line and some abilities to further augment your melee DPS.

Although the 3 sec cast time on Sticky Feetz concerns me.


Thats because the OP and others think that seeing numbers fly up on screen is > than debuffing enermies. Having AOE debuffs that reduce damage done and increase damage taken sound pretty good to me especially if you plan on doing group RVR.

[Gurgeh]

Interesting thread and a lot of contructive input which is great for slightly clueless peeps like me to read. I had my heart set on a Zealot before OB but the Shaman was just a lot more fun to play.

It's good to think that all the trees are viable although I'm more inclined to direct action than buff/ debuffing as it suits my style better. At least the options are there and nothing is really gimped if what is said here holds out :)

[Docsnotz]

I'm still not sure about the waaagh mechanics, experience tells me that gork'll fix it casts fast between 2 and 4 gork (red) waaagh, but really slowly with 5 waaagh. As was written in a post earlier bigger better greener is instant cast with 5 mork waaagh. I advise the dude who wrote the original post to buy it. building the mork waaagh, well, it's effects escape me entirely. Almost entirely, the baseline bolt (forgot it's name) casts a bit faster. I am only level 15 right now so that may limit my understanding.
Personally I have gone straight for the gork line to get the willpower/intelligence debuff on life leaker. Instant cast no cool down builds gork waaagh 5 of them instant cast bigger better greener, repeat when possible. reduces everyones dissrupt chances, and there spell damage. I duo with a sorcerer so it makes sense for me, but generally even in a group RvR if you mess up the opponents resists and spell damage then insta big heal a buddy, your groups not gonna turn their nose up.

[FalseMyrmidon]

It increases cast times by 20% per point or effectiveness by 5% per point if it's already instant. Any other differences are in your head.

[Utakata]

Guys, I will be writing a new guide within the next few days. It will be in a new topic since it is going through a complete revamping around the latest patch and around my experiences up to rank 34. This current guide is pretty much obsolete, but thanks for reading anyway!

-Peanut

[Bait]

Yeah, now (that Shrug it Off was changed completely) the Mastery HoT is far better than a 3 min cooldown rez.