Sink to their level

[Godric]

I'm just trying to understand the character of an orc, so when the time comes, I can play it well.

Anyways, say an Orc just killed a stunty. However his weapon was destroyed in the process. Would he pick up the dwarf's weapon and use that, or just use his fist (not liking the idea of touching dwarfen craft).

[Krushchev]

If you kill it and it drops fatz lewtz take it and use it.

[Snorri]

The orc in dragonslayer (something manflayer) was eager to kill Gotrek and claim the magical dwarfen axe for his own use.

He failed.

But its the thought that counts.

[Karthos]

I have a feeling that even if an orc were able to kill a stuntie, he would use the axe unless his lack of intelligence is lower than that of most orcs. Choppa or intricately-crafted rune axe?

[Gobla]

I'm just trying to understand the character of an orc, so when the time comes, I can play it well.

Anyways, say an Orc just killed a stunty. However his weapon was destroyed in the process. Would he pick up the dwarf's weapon and use that, or just use his fist (not liking the idea of touching dwarfen craft).

You're already making your first mistake,

Orcs don't consider things ever. In Warhammer Orcs feel a need and they act like it. A human is hungry and sees food and he considers the cons and pros of eating it, like it making you fat for example. An orc is hungry and sees food he eats it. He doesn't consider. So if an orc needs a weapon he will grab whatever is in arms reach, he wouldnt care if it was orc made, dwarven made, the bone of his personal good luck goblin or even a weapon like the fellblade wich kills its wielder.

The orcish mind isn't stupid, its just extremely direct. Orc wants food, orc gets food. No matter if the food is gaurded by 12 trolls who will kill anyone trying to touch it. The orc doesnt consider getting the food, he just goes for it. There are no cons and pros in orcish life, there are only needs. An orc will always act to fullfill his greatest need, wich most of the time is the need for fighting.

So even if orcs wouldn't want to touch dwarven craft but the orc felt the need of having a weapon then he would use the weapon. He doesn't consider the aspects of his choice, he just makes it.

The Orcish brain differs to the human brain in 2 ways:

- Need for battle, biologically speaking this will probarly be a need for adrenaline. An orc enjoys fighting and challenges, this almost always is his prime need
- Lack of a single step in the process of making choices. A human choice is basically made like this: Feel a need - Consider the need - Act based on the consideration. Orcish choices lack the second step. They simply are: Feel a need - Act based on the need. They aren't really dumber then humans, they just don't consider things. A human will realise that stepping into a catapult and firing it will have a side-effect of getting him killed. An orc doesn't consider that, he feels the need to kill enemies. He sees the catapult and knows it can get him to killing fast. So he fires himself with the catapult.

[Hyrus]

- Lack of a single step in the process of making choices. A human choice is basically made like this: Feel a need - Consider the need - Act based on the consideration. Orcish choices lack the second step. They simply are: Feel a need - Act based on the need. They aren't really dumber then humans, they just don't consider things. A human will realise that stepping into a catapult and firing it will have a side-effect of getting him killed. An orc doesn't consider that, he feels the need to kill enemies. He sees the catapult and knows it can get him to killing fast. So he fires himself with the catapult.

Few things make me laugh out loud when I read them in text. Intentional or not, that's the best thing i've read in a long while.

[Godric]

Ok, I see. I just thought that the Orcs had a compassionate hatred for dwarfs, rather than a lust for battle. Either way fulfills orc character, but thanks anyways for the feedback.

[Bloodstorm]

Ok, I see. I just thought that the Orcs had a compassionate hatred for dwarfs, rather than a lust for battle. Either way fulfills orc character, but thanks anyways for the feedback.

I don't really think they 'hate' Dwarfs. Maybe Goblins develope such hatreds for us Stunties, but Orcs simply love to fight anything that's a challenge, and Dwarfs are as stubborn and strong as any Greenskin, whereas Elves break easy and Men will get an Orc bored within hours. Surely, it is the Dwarfs who have a deep, deep hatred for the Greenskins. Orcs get pissed off, no doubt, but they aren't exactly the 'grudge-holding' type, for they act on impulse. There are not 'friends and enemies' in Orcish society, but rather, 'the weak and the strong', which translates into, 'the small and the big', since Orcs grow in size as they win fights.

And if anything, a Dwarf would be "sinking" to an Orc's level if he were to use a Choppa, and an Orc would have to be pretty uppity to think about wielding a fine Dwarf-crafted axe! Unfortunately, most Orcs are indeed bloated with pride, which is probably what gives them to confidence to fight anything that moves. Heh.

[Chilltouch]

The orcish mind isn't stupid, its just extremely direct. Orc wants food, orc gets food. No matter if the food is gaurded by 12 trolls who will kill anyone trying to touch it. The orc doesnt consider getting the food, he just goes for it. There are no cons and pros in orcish life, there are only needs. An orc will always act to fullfill his greatest need, wich most of the time is the need for fighting.

If this was true then the entire orcish race would be count as Unbreakable. If there are twelve trolls guarding food, only a slayer would bother to chagre into the frey. An orc, on the other hand, would slowly back away and decide there's better food elsewhere. To an orc, life is still important. And they're sane enough to know that.

Orcs are simply more simpler than humans. If it looks choppy, keep it. If it doesn't look choppy, smash. They consider a few things, but far less than humans. A human would choose a weapon according to his fighting style, its balance, its material, its sharpness, whether it's intended for smashing, cutting or piercing. An orc? Let me quote the warboss from DoW:

BIG IZ BEST!

Edit: But, in the end, orcs don't care about their safety if it just means getting into the fight quicker.

[Bloodstorm]

If this was true then the entire orcish race would be count as Unbreakable. If there are twelve trolls guarding food, only a slayer would bother to chagre into the frey. An orc, on the other hand, would slowly back away and decide there's better food elsewhere. To an orc, life is still important. And they're sane enough to know that.

Orcs are simply more simpler than humans. If it looks choppy, keep it. If it doesn't look choppy, smash. They consider a few things, but far less than humans. A human would choose a weapon according to his fighting style, its balance, its material, its sharpness, whether it's intended for smashing, cutting or piercing. An orc? Let me quote the warboss from DoW:

BIG IZ BEST!

Edit: But, in the end, orcs don't care about their safety if it just means getting into the fight quicker.

I think the only reason they'd consider backing away is simple: The trolls are bigger, and to an Orc, that means the trolls are stronger. Gobla is right in most of his points, the Orcs love to fight dangerous and dirty, but you're right, Orcs are not suicidal. They might seem that way to some, but they aren't. And I have always imagined them as stupid, but cunning, where Goblins would be smart, and even more cunning.

However, this all seems to change when they group up to form a Waaagh! You see, in a Waaagh!, they'd charge two hundred trolls if they had to, if it meant a good fight. They get smarter, stronger, and more cunning when they're all in one spot, causing them to contruct gigantic war machines or towers, or catapults, unlike the 40 Orks, who seem to simply rely on Gretchins for their construction needs. So, a lone Orc or two is probably not much of a fight for two Dwarfs, but five hundred Greenskins will probably have an advantage over five hundred stunties, strength-wise. Well, probably..

And I believe you quoted a Nob Squad. :mrgreen:

[Chilltouch]

And actually, I don't believe that Space Orks rely on gretchins for their work. Orks themselves, have an absolute love of tinkering, that comes second to their love of conflict. That's why you have Mad Dokz and Mek Boyz.

Anyway, it's an ork nob squad?! Dang!

Otherwise, I agree on all your points.

[Gobla]

If this was true then the entire orcish race would be count as Unbreakable. If there are twelve trolls guarding food, only a slayer would bother to chagre into the frey. An orc, on the other hand, would slowly back away and decide there's better food elsewhere. To an orc, life is still important. And they're sane enough to know that.

Orcs are simply more simpler than humans. If it looks choppy, keep it. If it doesn't look choppy, smash. They consider a few things, but far less than humans. A human would choose a weapon according to his fighting style, its balance, its material, its sharpness, whether it's intended for smashing, cutting or piercing. An orc? Let me quote the warboss from DoW:

BIG IZ BEST!

Edit: But, in the end, orcs don't care about their safety if it just means getting into the fight quicker.

Orcs don't care about dying. They'll gladly die if it means a good fight.

They are afraid of being alone, orcs are group beasts. They simply can not survive on their own, wich is why all greenskins are attracted to WAAAAGHS.

In the tabletop game an orc unit runs away because they are afraid of being left alone, they see their buddies die so they run for it. Searching other orcs to group up with.

In small groups orcs get uncomfortable, their need for a group will become greater then their need for battle and thus they will run from battle first wanting to find a group.

And about the trolls:

If the orc is alone he won't, he'll want other buddies first. If the orc is with a group he finds big enough he will. Even if it means dying. Ofcourse this can be seen as a consideration, but i don't believe it is. I'm quite sure the orc doesn't think:

Attack the trolls or not? Hmmm... Nah, I don't have enough buddies.

The orc simply doesn't consider attacking the trolls, he's only busy with getting more buddies.

[Gobla]

I think the only reason they'd consider backing away is simple: The trolls are bigger, and to an Orc, that means the trolls are stronger. Gobla is right in most of his points, the Orcs love to fight dangerous and dirty, but you're right, Orcs are not suicidal. They might seem that way to some, but they aren't. And I have always imagined them as stupid, but cunning, where Goblins would be smart, and even more cunning.

However, this all seems to change when they group up to form a Waaagh! You see, in a Waaagh!, they'd charge two hundred trolls if they had to, if it meant a good fight. They get smarter, stronger, and more cunning when they're all in one spot, causing them to contruct gigantic war machines or towers, or catapults, unlike the 40 Orks, who seem to simply rely on Gretchins for their construction needs. So, a lone Orc or two is probably not much of a fight for two Dwarfs, but five hundred Greenskins will probably have an advantage over five hundred stunties, strength-wise. Well, probably..

And I believe you quoted a Nob Squad. :mrgreen:

In warhammer fantasy i don't believe orcs to be cunning.

The battle plan of an orc warlord quite often consists of 2 words imho.

'Get um!'

And most of the warmachines are constructed by goblins in fantasy. In 40k the orks build stuff, in fantasy they hardly even build stuff. All the technology more advanced then attaching 2 sticks to each other is done by Goblins.

[Klitch]

In warhammer fantasy i don't believe orcs to be cunning.

The battle plan of an orc warlord quite often consists of 2 words imho.

'Get um!'

And most of the warmachines are constructed by goblins in fantasy. In 40k the orks build stuff, in fantasy they hardly even build stuff. All the technology more advanced then attaching 2 sticks to each other is done by Goblins.

Come on man, you can't get much more cunning than jumping on boar and charging straight at your enemy yelling WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!! at the top of your lungs

Another point could made that the Orcs are more cunning that the Goblins because they are getting the Goblins to do all the work!

Also Orcs worship their gods of cunning....... and brutalitly..... their only gods........

Anyways the Orcs might just be SOOO cunning that they may have cunningly tricked you into a false sense of secturity with their vase amounts of cunning!!!!

Don't they say their is a fine line between genius and cunning!





Or ya, they could be just be huge war-thirsty monsters.......


At this point, I'll happily play them in anycase

[Ahsas]

Don't they say their is a fine line between genius and cunning!


There's a fine line between genius and insanity.

[Bloodstorm]

And actually, I don't believe that Space Orks rely on gretchins for their work. Orks themselves, have an absolute love of tinkering, that comes second to their love of conflict. That's why you have Mad Dokz and Mek Boyz.

Anyway, it's an ork nob squad?! Dang!

Otherwise, I agree on all your points.

Well, I'm actually going by Dawn of War. There aren't any Ork builder units in that game, just a Big Mekk. There, Gretchins are the builders of anything useful. I can't imagine them having much other uses..

[Ahsas]

Shields. They make good fire sponges.

[Lochaberaxe]

An orc also differentiates from all of the other races (except possibly chaos, but thats going into religious fervor) in that they have a lesser since of individuality. A man will think of himself as his name, where he came from, his status in a community or organization, religion, and personal goals. An orc only considers identity as his name, status, and tribe.

This lessening sense of individuality either creates or is created from the "great green" in that the orc psyche pulls others toward itself to complete its identity. This gathering of psyche causes the latent psychic energy to manifest, much like two energized conductors sending electric sparks at each other.

An orc is subconsciously in an eternal state of identity crisis in short. The "Great Green" phenomena occurs because of this.

[Klitch]

Some of my favorite in lore in 40k, are the Imperium reports on Orc vehicles. Where the reports state they it should be impossible for the vehicles to move at all, and yet they were racing around on the battlefield, why? Because the Orcs thought it should. Similarly Orc vehicles painted red moved faster. Why? BECAUSE THE ORCS THOUGHT IT SHOULD!!


This brings cunning to a whole new level

[Lochaberaxe]

Some of my favorite in lore in 40k, are the Imperium reports on Orc vehicles. Where the reports state they it should be impossible for the vehicles to move at all, and yet they were racing around on the battlefield, why? Because the Orcs thought it should. Similarly Orc vehicles painted red moved faster. Why? BECAUSE THE ORCS THOUGHT IT SHOULD!!


This brings cunning to a whole new level

If every human on Earth believed that a certain mountain should rest on its top, will it?

Orcs are innocent creatures, meaning they do not have guilt, shame, and doubt. Doubt clouds the brain like molasses, it impedes the subconscious from percieving possibilities. When the subconscious and the consciouse mind meet, two things happen: delusion or it actually happens.

If a man has a child-like faith (subconscious), but a fully developed conscious mind... the potential is there for wonderous works.

Orks are thus.

Note: I would reconsider going too far into this. Inevitably, religious thought comes into play and that leads to incessant ranting... one reason why this post is so ill-concieved.

[Godric]

^^Sorry I couldn't word it any other way, but now I think I understand the orcs a bit better.