Does anyone play a Vaul AM?

[Linnea]

I really like all the buffs and how it makes the enemies less efficient i guess you could say. Is it a good route to take?

[Kbalz]

I am still a bit confused if buffs / debuffs affect Force / Tranq points or not?

[Dastion]

Most of the spells in the path of vaul do not work off of your mechanic.

The debuffs are okay, but not too terribly noticeable in the short run and, since most of them only last about 10 seconds it means they aren't too great in the long run because of frequent recasting being necessary.

It's not a bad line, it just needs work. I mean, Mythic labeled this career and the shaman as the "Healer Nuker", yet they get a path that has very little damage, no healing (unless you count Arcing Power), and barely uses their mechanic.

Dunno, i was really hoping we would get a good Combat and Careers patch before the NDA lifted. I love this career's potential, but I have to be honest and it makes me feel so negative =^/

[abigsmurf]

Only thing I can see that wouldn't be a more of a pain to use than a benefit is that spell that halfway through that has a silencing effect.

That's a lot of points to waste for one ability though

[CaelumArisen]

Most of the spells in the path of vaul do not work off of your mechanic.

the two aoe debuffs and the buff, yea... but I'll tell you from my experience the place I use mechanic with the most of ANY spell is Radiant Gaze. After spamming heals I target a nearby baddie, let it off, and get right back in healing.

[Dastion]

Only thing I can see that wouldn't be a more of a pain to use than a benefit is that spell that halfway through that has a silencing effect.

That's a lot of points to waste for one ability though

The only silence we get is Law of Gold, which is baseline. Points in the line only increase it's damage, and you don't really use it for it's minor damaging effect :)

[Ghoti]

Yes, I've played a Vaul AM extensively. My views on the class differer from Dastion's quite a bit I think, as I think this class is perfect in its current form. In my experience, that's what's been so great about this game. For every person I've found who is down on a class, I've found another who has absolutely been able to achieve great success with it.

When I first started to play an AM when they first became available, I started up Isha, but after researching and testing out the Vaul line at higher ranks, I simply fell in love.

First, from my beta experience, most players discount the value of debuffs far too much. I think the main issue is that they simply don't have the "pew pew" factor that many players are looking for and because they can't clearly see the an instant benefit, they simply think they aren't working.

This is definitely not the case in this game and I can tell you that debuffs play an essential role in RvR. Just about any organized Order group I've run with who knows what they are doing, will be running an AM in their group, mainly due to the debuff utility. So, in my opinion, it's an excellent route to take.

Take for instance a spell like Rain Lord, a spell that many AM's just toss out the window because it doesn't have the "pew pew". At rank 32, an average Sorc will have about 450 Intelligence or so, their primary damage stat, in average to slightly above average gear. At rank 32, and Vaul Mastery Rank 11, your Rain Lord debuffs the main damage stats, Intelligence, Strength and Ballistic for 96. That's a 20% debuff to the primary damage stat on that Sorc.

Now, some may look at that and think it's rather insignificant. First, if you look at most of the spells in the line, they are mostly instant cast or 1s cast times with relatively low AP costs. Why wouldn't you cast a spell like Rain Lord every time it was up? Instant cast with a 25 AP cost. Second, and this is the party that most players over look, but what other classes have similar debuffs? Do they stack? If so, what's that debuff percentage now?

A spell like Law of Age has even greater impact, as it debuffs Toughness, the primary defensive stat against melee. Now, at Rank 32, a caster in average gear will have maybe 150 - 200 Toughness if they are lucky. Again, with just 11 points in Vaul, Law of Age will debuff casters for 50-60% of their Toughness value. Think about the assist train rolling through casters with Law of Age on them. 30 ft. radius, instant cast, no cool down and only 20 AP cost. Again, why wouldn't you repeatedly cast this in between heals and damage?

Scatter the Winds... speaks for itself. This type of debuff is one of the more powerful debuffs in the game, especially when combined with other debuffs cast on the healer who is responsible for healing the poor schmuck you cast this on. I think only two classes on each side have this type of ability. Think about the assist train again. They are on a Zealot or Shaman. You have already cast Law of Age on the target and now you cast Scatter. Toughness dropped by 50-60% and healing received drops by 50%.

Golden Aura is a relatively new addition and AMs are absolutely loving it. First, Radiant Gaze as it is can be a great spell. Again, instant cast, low cool down and average AP cost. It adds to your DPS especially when combined with your two other main DoTs. Not to mention, the 5% crit reduction is great. Some say that 5% is nothing, however, I know those same players would probably pick up a renown tactic that increases their crit chance by 5% in a heart beat. This negates that. With Golden Aura, you now can spread that DoT out to anyone within 20 feet, reducing the crit chance of all of them and laying down a decent AE DoT.

Mistress of the Marsh... I used this spell quite a bit, but dropped it in favor of splitting between Vaul and Isha, however, it is quite nice. Think about a clumped up group of enemy casters for a moment. You lay down Mistress in their area, they are now snared by 60% and their Initiative is now reduced by 68, or about 30% or so. Initiative protects against crits. Immediately after Marsh, you hit them with Law of Age followed by Radiant Gaze with Golden Aura, then Law of Gold on the primary healer followed by Scatter the Winds... Meanwhile your assist train has run in and started tearing things up.

None of this even takes into account the other multiple debuffs and AE affects that your group could be laying down in the process.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Vaul is a great line and incredibly useful. You aren't going to solo nuke anyone down in seconds flat at all, but you are going to provide some solid utility for your group. Either way, an AM even spec'd in Asuryan isn't going to be a solo nuker. That's just not the class.

Even in that line, it's clear that the damage potential is meant to be an overlay of DPS on multiple targets, some softening of targets (Spirit debuffing for your SM), and for helping to concentrate on the MA target once they are low on health and some quick and concentrated DPS added on in the end will finish them.

As a Vaul AM, you'll mainly be trying to circle around the main battle, casting DoTs, HoTs, your AOE debuffs when they are up and applying the single target debuffs as needed. Occasionally, you'll stop to cast a single target heal or group heal, or to toss out a Searing Touch on a target that is low on health.

Also, it should be noted that out of the 7 damage/debuff spells in the Vaul line, the 4 which provide a damage component actually do build Force. It's only the AOE debuffs without damage that don't. Between Scatter, Radiant Gaze, Law of Gold, your two Dots and Searing Touch, you'll have no problem building up Force for healing.

Personally, I'm a big fan of a Vaul/Isha mix, but it depends on your group set up. I have found that the Vaul/Isha combo is pretty flexible though and will add utility to most groups. I had previously gone up Isha for Funnel Essence and Wild Healing, and then up Vaul for Scatter and Law of Age, but with the addition of Golden Aura, I'll probably drop Wild Healing. Then it's a toss up between Bolstering Boon (great tactic for when you are free to cast your Boon of Hysh), or expanded control.

This is one of my favorite classes in beta and the Vaul line is one of my favorite paths. The class is also an excellent healer and is tough as hell to take down. Many will tell you otherwise, especially on the "tough" part, but they just haven't figured it out yet. A well-played AM can stay alive indefinitely. More on that later.

[Smileys]

I would just like to say Ghoti, that single post has made me want to play this game more then anything I've read on WAR in the past. I'm looking forward to playing a true debuff class, and I'm thinking there will be a ton of people playing Archmages, but not for the right reason. I want to be the support class needed on the battlefield, one that makes the battle just go so much easier...and when I leave, everyone else will be sitting there wondering why the enemies aren't dropping as fast as they used to.

[limelight]

ghoti thank you so much. I was looking over the mastery paths and skill lists and wondering if what you said was possible as i plan to be playing with my guild almost the entire time and we will be organized and be able to assist-train as you said. You have just completely made up my mind on what class i will be rolling.

I have just one question: from what i can tell these are all fairly low cast times and AP costs, i was wondering if its possible to be heal for most of the time, then throw down most of the debuffs once my group is all in range and has a target selected, while still specced mostly vaul?

[trias]

Ghoti, I was wondering if you could answer a question for me: Does the ability arcing power work for every tick of a dot, or just the initial hit, or not at all? And could it help Vaul/Asuryan specced AM with being a decent healer? I would love to play that spec if 'arcing power' can supplement healing decently.

[Dastion]

Ghoti, I was wondering if you could answer a question for me: Does the ability arcing power work for every tick of a dot, or just the initial hit, or not at all? And could it help Vaul/Asuryan specced AM with being a decent healer? I would love to play that spec if 'arcing power' can supplement healing decently.

I tested it. I hoped this was the case, but I was only ever able to get it to trigger off of Radiant Lance and Searing Touch. It also healed for exactly 135 each time rather than 20% of the damage value (no amtter which spell procc'd it).

If it had a chance to go off on each tick of DoTs it would make the path much more viable. If it went off anytime you cast a spell on anyone (i.e. debuffs) it would really round the line out. But, since it only goes off on DDs currently...well, just look at your Vaul offensive line up :)

[Grondoth]

Just an addition to Ghoti's post:

Radiant Gaze also decreases the damage output of the characters it hits by a flat 5%. 5% isn't much, but that adds up over multiple attacks, and seriously adds up over multiple characters.

[Spinks]

Also, it should be noted that out of the 7 damage/debuff spells in the Vaul line, the 4 which provide a damage component actually do build Force. It's only the AOE debuffs without damage that don't. Between Scatter, Radiant Gaze, Law of Gold, your two Dots and Searing Touch, you'll have no problem building up Force for healing.

Personally, I'm a big fan of a Vaul/Isha mix, but it depends on your group set up. I have found that the Vaul/Isha combo is pretty flexible though and will add utility to most groups. I had previously gone up Isha for Funnel Essence and Wild Healing, and then up Vaul for Scatter and Law of Age, but with the addition of Golden Aura, I'll probably drop Wild Healing. Then it's a toss up between Bolstering Boon (great tactic for when you are free to cast your Boon of Hysh), or expanded control.



Nice writeup! I've really been enjoying a Vaul/Isha mix on my AM too. It just fits how I like to play. I really think that the trick with the debuffs is to try to coordinate them with the rest of the group if you can, they are so brief it's the only real way to make them count.

[fly351]

thanks for your post Ghoti! it has made me want to play this class so much more ;)

[trias]

If it had a chance to go off on each tick of DoTs it would make the path much more viable. If it went off anytime you cast a spell on anyone (i.e. debuffs) it would really round the line out. But, since it only goes off on DDs currently...well, just look at your Vaul offensive line up :smile:

Ah, that's unfortunate. I guess it's only useful for the primary asuryan/secondary vaul spec then. If it is at all. Too bad...that certainly would have been my spec choice if I could have gone that way. Thanks for the info.

[Sirrion]

Yea, I had planned to go vaul/isha as well, simply because the play style that I adapted to was debuffing the enemyy, then shifting back to healing, and back and forth so while using force and tranquility to my advantage. Thanks to Ghoti btw, I hadn't gotten that deep into those trees yet, so it was nice to see someones detailed opinion on it.