Delayed/ranged attacks

[Rabbitman]

How accurate will the timing be between the visual animation of the game and the actual coding?

When you see the enemy raise his sword and strike, will you have already have registered the hit?

One thing i think is essential in-game is good animation of the ranged and delayed attacks, giving players some chance of recognising a threat before they get hit, not after.

The archer who actually draws back the bowstring before he shoots, or a delay in the time it takes for the arrow to cross the distance between you, make a huge difference in how the game is played.

The sword stroke having a backswing before you are actually struck so that you aren't just forced to jam buttons in anticipation in combat.

Sorcerors and mages summoning the fireball before they throw it, all of these have the same effect, they prevent combat degenerating into FPS replex reliant style gaming, where once your enemy has pressed 'shoot' you're dead.

[Kazek]

Hmm.. Good point.. A delay on attacks would certainly give the defender som breathing space, but you still have to make attacks fast enough that the defender cant just take a step back when the attacker does his backswing, and thus avoid being hit.. That would turn combat into bunny-hopping, strafe-around madness, like it is in WoW..

[Kilrogg-WHA]

Generally spells and archery have a "casting" time where you see the archer knock the arrow and the mage move his arms around with some particle effects. I don't know about melee, those attacks happen fast and you need to give at least 2-3 seconds to the player if you want him to have time to react. I think melee should just happen instantly for the most part, the player is in fighting stance until he does his melee style/attack and the damage is applied at the start of the style.

WoW's archery looks silly, you just sit there and then suddenly blam you're in firing position and shooting at your target, all in a split second.

[Gamut]

A draw time makes sense, ala DAoC. For melee I like to be able to attack instantly, it's not too realistic to get your sword out instantly, but it allows players to react much better, which I like.

[Rabbitman]

I think that's why attacking shouldn't be a single 'move' thing.

Sure, you should have a fast parry when defending or block or whatever, and when attacking you should have a fast little stab and slash alternating combo, but when you want to inflict more damage, you should require a slightly longer period of time to get your body behind the attack. A lunge would leave you exposed for less than half a second while you draw your weapon back before launching forwards, while a double-handed execution swing of an axe or sword should take almost a second as you heft the weapon upwards, change momentum, then send it crashing down with more power and damage than possible by an instant attack. 2-3 seconds is far too much, and i don't expect it to make combat distinctly turn-based, but a risk vs. reward balance tied into damage vs. speed would allow for more strategic combat that still flowed at a fast pace, without leaving it all 100% to a numbers game where the higher level always wins. rock-paper-scissors is hard to avoid, but i think timing would benefit the gameplay greatly.

Once this is implemented, different weapons would then be more individual, as a rapier is far better suited to flicks stabs and thrusts, combined with parrys and suchlike to out manuevre the opponent with speed and weight of attacks, while the guy weilding a war maul isn't going to be too able to bring his guard up in defense once he commits to an attack, but as soon as he gets in a clean hit, he's won.

of course, these are the extremes, and the balance of the varying attributes in between combining wiht player skill and character ability would provide us with a combat where individuality is not only possible, but not a handicap.

[Kazek]

Once this is implemented, different weapons would then be more individual, as a rapier is far better suited to flicks stabs and thrusts, combined with parrys and suchlike to out manuevre the opponent with speed and weight of attacks, while the guy weilding a war maul isn't going to be too able to bring his guard up in defense once he commits to an attack, but as soon as he gets in a clean hit, he's won.


I quite like this idea.. In most MMO's out there, weapons have little or no personality.. A weapon is just a stat add-on, and the type of weapon hardly matters at all..

Also, making different types of weapons play differently, will allow players to find a weapon that suits their style, thus making it easier for people to make a char that "feels right", rather than having to take the class that offers the least features you dislike.. Plus it adds to diversity, which is always a good thing! :)

[Rabbitman]

... and therefore finds the much sought after achievement of being a plus for both gameplay and roleplay possibilities!

What's not to like?

[Seldaren]

"and when attacking you should have a fast little stab and slash alternating combo, but when you want to inflict more damage, you should require a slightly longer period of time to get your body behind the attack. "

This is the sort of thing that DAoC's weapon styles are supposed to provide. A measure of differeniation between weapons.
Of course, people then complain that one weapon's styles are better than anothers and craziness results :) .

DAoC also had differing weapon speeds for different weapons, which also addresses the thoughts in this thread.

So some of the sorts of things ya'll are talking about have been addressed, and we'll likely see in WAR.

Seldaren