Squig Herders Spamming Pet Class? -.-

[Gahn]

"One-on-one a Squig is no match for the likes of a Hammerer or Ironbreaker, but the problem there isn’t the match, it’s the numbers."

"His minions will even fight on after his death, wandering off only when the battle is done."

" As a Squig Herder you lead from the rear, turning your Squigs loose on the enemy and supporting them with commands, arrows and bait while safely out of harm’s way. "

Mmmmmmmm An Hunter Theurgist Pet Spammer?
Thought we had nuff of Animists/Theurgists and the like in Daoc, there really must be a dev in love with pet spamming crap :/
Sad :s

[Tae]

Not sad, realistic. And making for a more interesting class.

[Irakaz]

Mmmmmmmm An Hunter Theurgist Pet Spammer?
Thought we had nuff of Animists/Theurgists and the like in Daoc, there really must be a dev in love with pet spamming crap :/
Sad :s

Sounds more like a Bonedancer . . . . oh wait . . . . noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ill see how it balances first, although it isnt sounding like Mythic's best idea right now :p. I had in mind different strength squigs and greater debuffing/ranged abilities on a squig herder, not just extra squigs.

[Crysalis]

It doesnt say they are spamable.

It just saids their are multiple, probably more akin to bonedancer pets than anything.

I feel it will be hard to balance them though, especially with mulitple herders and then multiple amounts of squigs per herder.

[Gahn]

Not sad, realistic. And making for a more interesting class.

Did u ever tried to kill a Bd / Theurg in Daoc? Trust me ain't that funny nor interesting ^^

[Gahn]

It doesnt say they are spamable.

It just saids their are multiple, probably more akin to bonedancer pets than anything.

I feel it will be hard to balance them though, especially with mulitple herders and then multiple amounts of squigs per herder.

Since they keep fighting after Herder is dead they clearly fire and forget.

[Crysalis]

Spammable in the context of daoc means that you repeatedly keep casting them.

A squig herder probably has to summon his squigs before battle and then take them in with him, if he wants to create new ones im sure there is a recast timer which will be lengthy.

So they are not a spammable pet class.

[Tae]

Did u ever tried to kill a Bd / Theurg in Daoc? Trust me ain't that funny nor interesting ^^

Did you ever read the Orc & Goblin Army book ?

Trust me, that is both funny and interesting.

[Crysalis]

Since they keep fighting after Herder is dead they clearly fire and forget.

If you kill a sorc or a minstrel or any class that can charm a pet, if you have a damage shield on and the pet hits you and then the owner of the pet dies then the pet will continue to agro on you.

They dont count as a spammable pet class either.

[Crysalis]

Did u ever tried to kill a Bd / Theurg in Daoc? Trust me ain't that funny nor interesting ^^

It wont be anything like a BD though, squig herders probably wont be able to summon 2 pets which can heal himself and have an insta lifetap and body debuff.

[Gahn]

Spammable in the context of daoc means that you repeatedly keep casting them.

A squig herder probably has to summon his squigs before battle and then take them in with him, if he wants to create new ones im sure there is a recast timer which will be lengthy.

So they are not a spammable pet class.

It all boils down to numbers tho ain't it? Animists got 15 pets top spamming then they can't cast more (unlikely at release) for 2 mins till 1st pet starts to die out.
Even if it was 5 Squigs with 5 different Spell effects, say 1 melee, 1 mage, 1 diseaser, 1 rooter and add whatever u want (They hint at several different kind of Squigs), it would be an huge problem to fight it. And i don't even start on Los issues and such -.-

[Tae]

Since they keep fighting after Herder is dead they clearly fire and forget.

If they fire and forget, they'll lose, simple as that.

Squig Herders are a team - Squigs and Goblins. Each by itself wont win - either through lack of strength or lack of intelliegence, which is why the two must be combined.

The Squig Herder himself will have several skills besides the Squigs, several of which - as mentioned in the newsletter - include 'aiming' the squigs per say.

So sure, they can fire and forget it they want, but they shouldn't be surprised if the Squigs end up being about as effective as a chocolate tea pot.

[Gahn]

If you kill a sorc or a minstrel or any class that can charm a pet, if you have a damage shield on and the pet hits you and then the owner of the pet dies then the pet will continue to agro on you.

They dont count as a spammable pet class either.

Of course Charmed pets are way different then Fire and Forget ones, let's try not to mix up things.

[Gahn]

If they fire and forget, they'll lose, simple as that.

Squig Herders are a team - Squigs and Goblins. Each by itself wont win - either through lack of strength or lack of intelliegence, which is why the two must be combined.

The Squig Herder himself will have several skills besides the Squigs, several of which - as mentioned in the newsletter - include 'aiming' the squigs per say.

So sure, they can fire and forget it they want, but they shouldn't be surprised if the Squigs end up being about as effective as a chocolate tea pot.

By Fire and Forget is meant that u can cast multiple pets and, somehow, control em either cause u fire some kind of pet that does a particualr thing (Ala Animist in Daoc) or cause u aim em at enemy (Kinda like Theurgists). From the description it seems an hybrid from the 2 concepts so they can fire some pets with some particular abilities and command em to deal with enemies.

[Crysalis]

We dont know what kind of pets they will have though tbh.

Sure they would be overpowered if they had chain stunning pets or pets with 90% intercept rate or pets which hit you for 1/3 of your life or pets which can keep you alive when someone is attacking you indefinitly.

But hopefully they be balanced properly.

I agree with you on the LoS issue though, especially with the pets being able to ignore collision detection.

It will be very difficult if players cant pass through the squig, especially if you get large groups of herders together and multiple amounts of squigs.

[Gahn]

We dont know what kind of pets they will have though tbh.

Sure they would be overpowered if they had chain stunning pets or pets with 90% intercept rate or pets which hit you for 1/3 of your life or pets which can keep you alive when someone is attacking you indefinitly.

But hopefully they be balanced properly.

I agree with you on the LoS issue though, especially with the pets being able to ignore collision detection.

It will be very difficult if players cant pass through the squig, especially if you get large groups of herders together and multiple amounts of squigs.

Happy that u coming on my side of worrying ;)

[Tae]

I agree with you on the LoS issue though, especially with the pets being able to ignore collision detection.

It will be very difficult if players cant pass through the squig, especially if you get large groups of herders together and multiple amounts of squigs.

Where did it say about them being able to ignore CD ?

[Crysalis]

It saids they can jump over players, lemme find quote from newsletter.

Fighting the Squig Herder
http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Greenskins/Careers/images/squigherder08s.jpg (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Greenskins/Careers/images/squigherder08.jpg) The Squig Herder is essentially a fire-support career who wishes to hit you without being hit. As such, you’ll need to deny him that opportunity. Attacking him or his pets early – either one, as the pets will live on after their master’s death – is a sound strategy which will quickly reduce his damage dealing power. You must also be alert however, as Squigs can bypass your own line with their fast leaping movements and strike at your back field. You must strike a balance between the defenses you can muster against enemy melee fighters and the nasty beasts gnawing at your heals.

[Seldaren]

Hmmm... the description of the Squig Herder is rather interesting.

I do not get the impression that the Squigs are "spam pets". As it mentions the ability to command them after sending them into battle.

As a Squig Herder you lead from the rear, turning your Squigs loose on the enemy and supporting them with commands, arrows and bait while safely out of harm’s way.

The ability to command them means they are not "fire and forget" pets.

It does sound a little like DAoC's Bonedancer, but hopefully without the Commander thing. And probably without a Healer or Buffer, as the Herder looks to be all offense.

So basically the Herder is a multi-pet class. That could make for an interesting Pet Window. I hope it has more functionality than the DAoC one.

And supporting the Squigs with "bait"? That sounds kinda different. Maybe you can feed random junk to the Squig and it gets various temporary buffs?
Like, feed it some rotten meat and it gets a disease proc or something? feed it something explosive and it blows up after a time? ;)

You must also be alert however, as Squigs can bypass your own line with their fast leaping movements and strike at your back field.

And that does sound like Squigs are not subject to Collision Detection. Very cool. That should help with pathing, hopefully.

Oh, and I guess we know now part of the reason why the bow-wielding Battler got scrapped. It got eaten by a Squig :) .

Seldaren

[Axxar]

Sounds a lot like a hunter from WoW. Except more focus on his -multiple- pets.

[Crysalis]

H And that does sound like Squigs are not subject to Collision Detection. Very cool. That should help with pathing, hopefully.

Its good for the herder if this is how their pathing works, but if the enemy player is still subject to collision detection from the pets then it will make it very difficult, even impossible in some situations with large numbers of herders and pets, for a player to even be able to get ot the herders.

1v1 it might be fine, but get a few of them together and the collision detection will make playing impossible.

Then again players fighting against the squigs may not suffer from collision detection from them, since they count as NPCs. We dont really know.

Its yet another issue with Mythic only giving half informations.

[Commentaris]

they mention squigs as a pack

they mention squigs need to be supported by the herder by being given commands

they mention the herder will have to pick and choose the squigs for each pack. in fact this is the most critical part.



this all leads me to believe they will function much like the BD pets in daoc, and not at all like theurg or ani pets.

[obsolete]

Since they keep fighting after Herder is dead they clearly fire and forget.

By this i am assuming you mean the Squig Herder will send his squigs to attack then forget about them?

I don't think this will be the case, as any Squig Herder worth his weight in dwarf beards will want to make the best use of his squigs by issuing them commands to attack strategicly with commands to attack influential people (healers/AOE mages etc).

[Seldaren]

ut if the enemy player is still subject to collision detection from the pets then it will make it very difficult, even impossible in some situations with large numbers of herders and pets, for a player to even be able to get ot the herders.

That's a fairly easy issue to address.
Just turn off Collision Detection entirely for the Squigs, and basically consider them mobs. As mobs do not have CD with anything.

The only Squig that should have CD, IMO, is the Battle Armor Squig. As it's probably not as nimble with a Goblin inside it :) .

That also leaves room for a specific "tank" Squig. One that does have CD, and directly defends the Herder.
So some Squigs could have CD, some may not.

And if the Herder cannot ride a Squig at some point, I will be very upset :p .

Seldaren

[obsolete]

It saids they can jump over players, lemme find quote from newsletter.

Fighting the Squig Herder
You must also be alert however, as Squigs can bypass your own line with their fast leaping movements and strike at your back field.

Yes, they can jump over your lines, not through your lines.

And lets face it, it's not hard to jump over a dwarf is it? ;)

[Crysalis]

That's a fairly easy issue to address.
Just turn off Collision Detection entirely for the Squigs, and basically consider them mobs. As mobs do not have CD with anything.

The only Squig that should have CD, IMO, is the Battle Armor Squig. As it's probably not as nimble with a Goblin inside it :) .

That also leaves room for a specific "tank" Squig. One that does have CD, and directly defends the Herder.
So some Squigs could have CD, some may not.

And if the Herder cannot ride a Squig at some point, I will be very upset :p .

Seldaren

Indeed if they are not subject to collision detection by players then it will be ok.

I can certainly see that when the goblin is inside a battle squig then it would be.

[Crysalis]

Yes, they can jump over your lines, not through your lines.

And lets face it, it's not hard to jump over a dwarf is it? ;)

Yes but it is still the same thing, there is really no difference in avoiding collision detection by jumping over someone (avoiding it) and just plain passing through them.

Both ways negate collision detection.

But it wont matter aslong as someone fighting a herder will be able to pass through the squigs and get to the enemy.

But there might be different types I guess, maybe blocker ones, hopper ones which u can pass through stuff like that.

At this initial point in time we can see what things are good for the class and what things are overpowered, we just have to cross our fingers that Mythic get the balance right!

One thing I dont like about the grab bag is we get half informations, I guess its just to promote speculation and discussion.

[obsolete]

You can tell whats overpowered from that single paragraph?

P.s I don't get how a squig having the ability to jump over someones head is just as bad as them running directly through them? If the jumping was a squig specific ability you had to earn like any other this would work well.

We know squigs can jump because i know i've seen a concept picture of a Night Goblin in mid-flight on the back of a squig - Not a WAR concept picture, this was years and years ago when i was interested in the TT game.

Ninja edit ftw!

[Tae]

Yes but it is still the same thing, there is really no difference in avoiding collision detection by jumping over someone (avoiding it) and just plain passing through them.

Both ways negate collision detection.

Only if jumping is a normal 'player' jumping height. If CD works for players jumping, and players jump (for arguments sake) 1 meter into the air, all they have to do is make Squigs jump 2 meters into the air. At this point it becomes no different to running around them (not running through them) because you're not going 'through' the player, you're going around them, just around them vertically instead of horizontally.

But how they do them ... guess away.

[Crysalis]

You can tell whats overpowered from that single paragraph?

P.s I don't get how a squig having the ability to jump over someones head is just as bad as them running directly through them? If the jumping was a squig specific ability you had to earn like any other this would work well.

We know squigs can jump because i know i've seen a concept picture of a Night Goblin in mid-flight on the back of a squig - Not a WAR concept picture, this was years and years ago when i was interested in the TT game.

Ninja edit ftw!

I never said it was a bad idea for them to negate collision detection, I said it would be a bad idea if players were still subject to the rules of collision detection when fighting the squigs.

[Gahn]

By this i am assuming you mean the Squig Herder will send his squigs to attack then forget about them?

I don't think this will be the case, as any Squig Herder worth his weight in dwarf beards will want to make the best use of his squigs by issuing them commands to attack strategicly with commands to attack influential people (healers/AOE mages etc).

It all comes down if melee interrupts cast and how it interrupts cast in case i guess.

[Lemures]

You sound more afraid of a class that isn't going to exist in this game... Diffrent game, diffrent races, diffrent world and diffrent classes. Don't think you should be so worried just because it will have multiple pets. Smart developers learn from mistakes, so hope Mythic is smart. If they arn't... then I dunno man... Burn your copy after getting it and mail it to them with some hate mail I guess. I dunno just seems weird to be worried about an over powered class at this point.

I've been waiting for games before and some classes that sounded like the most hardcore ended up being the weakest and it took about a year till they were balanced out and made decent.

[Gahn]

You sound more afraid of a class that isn't going to exist in this game... Diffrent game, diffrent races, diffrent world and diffrent classes. Don't think you should be so worried just because it will have multiple pets. Smart developers learn from mistakes, so hope Mythic is smart. If they arn't... then I dunno man... Burn your copy after getting it and mail it to them with some hate mail I guess. I dunno just seems weird to be worried about an over powered class at this point.

I've been waiting for games before and some classes that sounded like the most hardcore ended up being the weakest and it took about a year till they were balanced out and made decent.

Since we are speculating am, ofc, only giving away advice on how, IMO, it shouldn't work for balance issues.
Also Devs learn from mistakes BUT they tend to not having the geneeral view of game play that players have, so MAYBE we can stimulate a discussion on what is NOT good for the game from a class able to do a list of things.
Guess Forums are for that? ^^
As for what i will do with my copy either burn it or not, bare in mind that i played a tank type during all the 4 patches where Casters were over the roof and still i didn't burned anything.

[Crysalis]

These boards are used to discuss things which we think should be ingame as well as things which we think shouldnt be in game.

I think its fair to say that no one is really worried at this stage in development, especially since we get such a tiny bit of information.

But still I feel it is good to discuss the good and the bad, not simply the good what we want to see ingames.

[Lemures]

I understand what forums are for... that wasn't my point.
But since it went over the head, I'll just drop it there. I wouldn't wanna cause more confusion if the first was so easily misunderstood :rolleyes:
But, here is a lollipop.

[Gahn]

I understand what forums are for... that wasn't my point.
But since it went over the head, I'll just drop it there. I wouldn't wanna cause more confusion if the first was so easily misunderstood :rolleyes:
But, here is a lollipop.

Prefer popcorns, but since u added next to nothing to discussion i'll keep em for more interesting threads i guess -.-

[Belatucadros]

funny to see animist/theurg comparisons, when my first instinct was "BD without healer pets and the pets keep on after death to compensate"

sounds good

[Zulgaines]

I'm sure a normal archer class wouldn't scare you as much. But what if their arrows caused instant death and loss of XP?

You can't complain about anything until you've seen it. That's what beta is for, even if something sounds over powered you can't be sure until it is played.

After all, it's mostly just stats and numbers, the diffrent ways devs add them is what makes classes diverse.

[Vegetta]

Spammable in the context of daoc means that you repeatedly keep casting them.

A squig herder probably has to summon his squigs before battle and then take them in with him, if he wants to create new ones im sure there is a recast timer which will be lengthy.

So they are not a spammable pet class.

I am wondering if they will be magially summoned or a more traditional pet that you have to feed and get rezzed if it dies... I'm guessing the later (Makes a bit more sense IMO)

[BoldarBlood]

uh, a whinetopic before anyone have played the class? 'cant belive that...

[Serac]

"His minions will even fight on after his death, wandering off only when the battle is done."

I am slightly worried about this. However, If the ranged (AE) classes as powerful as they seem, it could be a good counter against the squig herder class. Just theorizing, of course.

It wont be anything like a BD though, squig herders probably wont be able to summon 2 pets which can heal himself and have an insta lifetap and body debuff.

My thoughts exactly. And the BD was an expansion class, they always had a problem with balancing power with them. I don't think that Mythic would introduce an overpowered class at the start of the game. However, in the squig herder class description, different types of squigs were mentioned. Hopefully none will be healers.

I am worried that this class will be easier to xp than other classes. If the squigs have an AI setting, a player could possibly camp out in one place while their pets do all the work.

[Ravanos]

uh, a whinetopic before anyone have played the class? 'cant belive that...

No kidding right, maybe we should wait and hold of the whines we see the game complete? i guess that would take too much common sense.


to me this class sounds like the Mastermind of CoV, except of course the pets live on after you die. sounds like a great solo class I wonder how they will do in a group situation.

[Zulgaines]

Of course after the herder dies his minions become nothing more than an unorganized mob with no commands or supprt skills from their leader. Easily mop'd up unless it was a very close fight I'd guess.

[Hoz]

No kidding right, maybe we should wait and hold of the whines we see the game complete? i guess that would take too much common sense.
Actually I enjoy this. It shows how shallow whines are even after the game comes out. Whining is just natural human behavior, and it's easily stimulated.

[Crysalis]

Ok all the newbies who are complaining about "whining" need to get out of the thread.

Not everyone lives in lar lar happy land, we have all played MMORPGs in the past so we all have experience with the genre.

If you have a problem with discussing negative points and problems that occur in other games and then forming opinions about how things can be done and implemented to make them a decent class in this game then I really dont know why you are on a discussion board.

IMO you cant keep continually talking about good points from games, you have to also look at the negative points about games and discuss good ways to have issues play out better.

This game will take alot of ideas from different games and implement what they feel are good points and make sure that the negative points arent taken across also, but we must actually discuss the negative points otherwise really how can you make a discussion about what is good with what is bad?

Also I feel the use of the word newbie is quite appropriate, if someone fails to see the bad and only sees the good in games must be very new to the genre.

[Aerion]

Ok all the newbies who are complaining about "whining" need to get out of the thread.

Not everyone lives in lar lar happy land, we have all played MMORPGs in the past so we all have experience with the genre.

If you have a problem with discussing negative points and problems that occur in other games and then forming opinions about how things can be done and implemented to make them a decent class in this game then I really dont know why you are on a discussion board.

IMO you cant keep continually talking about good points from games, you have to also look at the negative points about games and discuss good ways to have issues play out better.

This game will take alot of ideas from different games and implement what they feel are good points and make sure that the negative points arent taken across also, but we must actually discuss the negative points otherwise really how can you make a discussion about what is good with what is bad?

Also I feel the use of the word newbie is quite appropriate, if someone fails to see the bad and only sees the good in games must be very new to the genre.

Using personal attacks of "newbness" to whine about people whining about your whining is ing classic.

Equating purely speculative pessimism with MMO experience is laughable.

There is no info whatsoever about this class other than a few paragraphs of summary. While maintaining some concrete descriptions, these are otherwise purposefully vague in order to allow the developers to tweek the class as needed for balance purposes.

Being worried about an overpowered class this far from any viable beta build is just worry for the sake of worry. It is not an indication of your "non-newbness".

[Garthilk]

Lets all just take a deep breath and relax a bit. WAR does not equal DAoC. WAR does not equal WoW. WAR = WAR. That's it. Considering we all just learned about the career less than 24 hours ago, lets all realize that our information is VERY limited at this point. As was said, all we have to go on is a few little paragraphs. Lets at least wait till we've had the experience to actually play it before we knock it, or start complaining about the strategies involved in defeating them in PvP.

[Pirkel]

If you kill a sorc or a minstrel or any class that can charm a pet, if you have a damage shield on and the pet hits you and then the owner of the pet dies then the pet will continue to agro on you.

They dont count as a spammable pet class either.

Anyone running around with damage shield in RvR deserves to lose horribly to anything really.

[Aerion]

Lets all just take a deep breath and relax a bit. WAR does not equal DAoC. WAR does not equal WoW. WAR = WAR. That's it. Considering we all just learned about the career less than 24 hours ago, lets all realize that our information is VERY limited at this point. As was said, all we have to go on is a few little paragraphs. Lets at least wait till we've had the experience to actually play it before we knock it, or start complaining about the strategies involved in defeating them in PvP.

Well said.

Thank you.

[Ravanos]

NERF SQUIG HERDERS!!!


just because i wanted to make the "first" nerf a class post!.

[erloas]

NERF SQUIG HERDERS!!!


just because i wanted to make the "first" nerf a class post!.

I'm pretty sure someone else has made some already, before we even knew about any classes if I remember right.

As for the squig herder I think it will probably work similar to a bonedancer as well. With a set of squigs to choose from and more then one available at a time. I would assume that the squig(s) are going to be fairly tough and dangerous, so they can't just be ignored, and since they will still be alive if the owner gets killed it might make people focus on the pet before the owner. If that is the case though the pet(s) will have to do more damage then the owner, and the pets will have to be slow to summon/charm/ressurect.

As for them leaping over and by-passing CD, my bet is that there will probably be a few other classes with similar abilities, the light tank sort of classes for some other races. I also think that probably not all of the squigs are going to have this ability, 1-2 specific types probably will, but other types will not be able to do this.

[Tharg]

Hmm not exactly anything to do with the topic, but wouldnt it be great if dwarven engineer gun fire could knock back leaping squigs?.

Pack of Squigs come hopping forward, those that can leap, leap up and over the front line of melee, and are suddenly blown back by a couple of engineers with rifles/ shot guns (what ever form of ranged they have), those leaping squigs that are hit get debuffed and cant bypass enemy lines for X number of seconds. Meanwhile around the flanks come the lumbering DPS Squigs ready to munch said engineers. Would be an interesting class dynamic, the two ranged dps used to counter each other.

Personaly I dont realy see any thing to overpowering with the Squig Herder, things change. Being an old Hunter/Warlock from WoW, Beast Master / Magician in EQ, as well as a Sorc/BD/Hunter from DaoC im realy likeing the prospect of the class (I like pet classes). If the commands and bait system for the Squigs is detailed, sounds like a real thinking mans class (especialy if theres some form of Squig frenzy type of thing, friendly fire like, dont keep em inline and they start to attack your own).

We all Just have to see how it pans out in Beta.

[BobtheDumbDwarf]

Holy crap! the Bounders from Teddy Rocksbin have locked themselves in a basement and have done nothing but lifting weights, inject steroids, and eat crack.

[Hyrus]

Wow. Way to assume after assuming about that assumption.

If, as the description reads, you reallly could go after either the squigs or herder first, they aren't going to be spamable in combat, generally. And, even if they were, we have no idea how much damage or defense they have in relation to the other classes, or anything for that matter.

At this point though, they sound pretty cool.

[Lemures]

Haha... ahh.. I win again Ghan. Here's some popcorn.

[Kai-Tehemundi]

I plan on playing a squig herder. This is because I knew I would play a goblin, but not which class and now that they are both out I like the play style of the squig herder better because it is something new. I don't see how people think they should be nerfed, because even if they look too powerful and that people will be over to overwhelm others, there are some obstacles: Squig Herders have to goad their squigs with food and playing music, obviously showing that they can be uncontrollable, you will have to choose which ones to bring with you and which to specialize in, and you will have to know when to attack with what and gauge your health and distance of both your goblin and squigs. Basically this means that it will probably be tougher micromanaging a squig herder than it would other classes, as well as taking a greater deal of focus than some classes, which makes it seem like a fun challenge that I would like to partake in.

[Squibbo]

Yes but it is still the same thing, there is really no difference in avoiding collision detection by jumping over someone (avoiding it) and just plain passing through them.

Both ways negate collision detection.

But it wont matter aslong as someone fighting a herder will be able to pass through the squigs and get to the enemy.

But there might be different types I guess, maybe blocker ones, hopper ones which u can pass through stuff like that.

At this initial point in time we can see what things are good for the class and what things are overpowered, we just have to cross our fingers that Mythic get the balance right!

One thing I dont like about the grab bag is we get half informations, I guess its just to promote speculation and discussion.

Actually, there's a HUGE difference in completely ignoring collision detection and being able to jump over enemy lines. By jumping over enemies, the squigs TEMPORARILY ignore collision detection, but upon landing on the ground, or while doing other things, they do not ignore collision detection. This is a key difference :) Jumping = selective colision detection avoidance, whereas completely ignoring it...well...completely ignores it.

[Wulfen]

Yes but it is still the same thing, there is really no difference in avoiding collision detection by jumping over someone (avoiding it) and just plain passing through them

Actually, there's a *huge* difference.
If a squig "ignores" collision detection that means it can run through the enemy lines until it reaches that cute little elf mage over there. If a squig "jump over" other characters (but still have collision detection) that means it can jump over a few players, but can be circled, stopped and slayed before it reaches that pointy eared sorceress.



But it wont matter aslong as someone fighting a herder will be able to pass through the squigs and get to the enemy.

Hmm, IMHO squig should have collision detection. They're really short, so players could jump over them, but squigs without CD? Doesen't make sense to me. As long as we know every player have collision detection activated against enemies (mob, NPC and players), and vice versa. Squigs should have CD activated towards enemies too, and enemies should not be able to pass through squigs.

[Dysfinn]

Like I said in another thread, the reason I'd make a Herder my alt was because in PvP and RvR, I could make a Squig Herder guild and make mass raids with 20 or so squigs as an army. Hahaha. We'd die pretty quickly though :( lol. Unless there was a squig with some sort of healing properties. Ie there were multiple trees of squigs, and they all had different jobs. So then we could have each member play the role of attacker, defenser, healer, etc... Could work out. lol. That really would be chaotic.

[Chouchou]

Great the game isn't out yet, and there is already a whining/nerf post about a carreer :eek:

[Aern]

I have a feeling this class is going to resemble hunters of wow in the sense that their main source of pve dmg will be with a ranged weapon and will focus less on the actual pack.

PvP however I really cant see any similarities to hunters other than the fact that they can have a bow and they have a pet. Hunters in pvp as in pve are mainly a ranged oriented class, pets are mostly used for caster interrupts. While being deadly at ranged hunters are also extremely durable at close range and have a ton of survival and kiting abilities that make them devastating in pvp.

This however does not seem to be the case for the squig herder, as it was stated that both squigs and the herder are alone, rather fragile.

When I read the descripition, I immediately said this is gonna be the class for me. My first thoughts of how this class will work though went directly to pet micro-management and player positioning and recognition of open targets and vulnerable areas. If they give me enough pet abilities to micro-manage and enough dmg/survivability on my gobbo, my squigg herder is sure to be a caster wreckin machine that I hope it will be.

[Zulgaines]

Really you can't complain about anything until you've seen it in action.

Shaman healing could be Godly if it was a full heal with no cooldown or point cost.

Black Orc could be unbeatable if they had a knockdown that lasted ten minutes.

Slayers could be over powered if they have an instant kill move.

It doesn't matter what the ability is, all that matters is how the ability is balanced.

[Gahn]

Ok all the newbies who are complaining about "whining" need to get out of the thread.

Not everyone lives in lar lar happy land, we have all played MMORPGs in the past so we all have experience with the genre.

If you have a problem with discussing negative points and problems that occur in other games and then forming opinions about how things can be done and implemented to make them a decent class in this game then I really dont know why you are on a discussion board.

IMO you cant keep continually talking about good points from games, you have to also look at the negative points about games and discuss good ways to have issues play out better.

This game will take alot of ideas from different games and implement what they feel are good points and make sure that the negative points arent taken across also, but we must actually discuss the negative points otherwise really how can you make a discussion about what is good with what is bad?

Also I feel the use of the word newbie is quite appropriate, if someone fails to see the bad and only sees the good in games must be very new to the genre.

Can we have a reputation System on this forum? so i can rightly give a rep point to this guy tbfh!

[Gahn]

Haha... ahh.. I win again Ghan. Here's some popcorn.

At least if u wanna stalk me learn my name ^^