Chaos Elite Class?

[Deathron]

Maybe a Knight of Chaos? Champion?
/discuss!

[Crooked]

I don't think Mythic is going to be putting the elite classes in the game at all. At one point Paul said that slayers would be in the game for sure, but they had not decided on a similar class for other races.. More recently Mythic has said they were still giving serious thought to if the slayer class would be implimented.

I have seen too many potential issues with the races to have one elite class for each race to work for.. What do gobbos do for example.. We will see though.

I think if they add anything like this for Chaos, a champion of Tzeentch would be great.

[zipfer]

Does this smell of hero class implementation in wow? :wink:

Personally I like the idea, but I wouldn't mind if they came out early and said we're putting it on hold, if they feel now its going to be tough to put in. If they got it nailed, then it just makes me drool even more :D

[Sluf]

I'm sure it would be related to Tzeentch though. My best guess would be the Champion of Tzeentch as well.

[Vash108]

I doubt you will see many Champions and Lords running around. They are Rare in the lore, well not like super rare but you arent going to have an army of champions.

[MachiavelliDisciple]

I doubt you will see many Champions and Lords running around. They are Rare in the lore, well not like super rare but you arent going to have an army of champions.

Aye, champions are leaders rather than the soldiers. An army of champions would be far too overpowered. If they were to have an elite class it could be a chaos knight though I suppose; though I believe in the lore mounts are generally given to champions and even then they're a rare gift.

There could be some sort of 'Chosen of Tzeentch' thing where Tzeentch has taken note of your deeds and rewarded you with something or other.

[Vash108]

Aye, champions are leaders rather than the soldiers. An army of champions would be far too overpowered. If they were to have an elite class it could be a chaos knight though I suppose; though I believe in the lore mounts are generally given to champions and even then they're a rare gift.

There could be some sort of 'Chosen of Tzeentch' thing where Tzeentch has taken note of your deeds and rewarded you with something or other.


My vote is in the area of mutations and magical gifts which increase you in power over others.

[Sluf]

My vote is in the area of mutations and magical gifts which increase you in power over others.

But as far as we've been told, that will be the general rank-advancement feature. Shouldn't elite be a bit more unique?

[Drace]

Well they could go the WFB root, and go from you starting at a simple maruader/choas warrior, to a chosen, which are slightly better warriors, who get choas armour rather then Heavy armour, and have slightly higher stats ( Much like Knights fo the inner circle for empire)

[Godric]

When I think of Elite classes for chaos two things pop in my head.

1. Aspect (more realistic in my oppinion)
2. Daemon's, Daemon Princes, Daeomnettes, etc. (it seems a little too much for mythic to do, but they might do it).

Those would be Elite classes for chaos, in my oppinion.

[MachiavelliDisciple]

I can't see them including Daemon princes: they'd be far too overpowered. Besides being risen to the rank of daemonhood is the ultimate privilege and a very rare thing.

[Sindriss]

im 100% sure they won't implement deamon princes, or anything like them. My best shot at elite race would be chaos knights as well, with their uberlicious armor and mounts

[Ditto]

I am not sure but i think i saw somewhere on the warhammeronline webpage or FAQ that they might be making some sort of mounted combat, and about some chaos knights? That would be it i guess.

[spoonlamp]

I am not sure but i think i saw somewhere on the warhammeronline webpage or FAQ that they might be making some sort of mounted combat, and about some chaos knights? That would be it i guess.

now drooling in anticipation...:chaos:

[Diavalos]

Aye, champions are leaders rather than the soldiers. An army of champions would be far too overpowered. If they were to have an elite class it could be a chaos knight though I suppose; though I believe in the lore mounts are generally given to champions and even then they're a rare gift.

There could be some sort of 'Chosen of Tzeentch' thing where Tzeentch has taken note of your deeds and rewarded you with something or other.


What defines a champion of a god? A leader of a massive army? Or a leader of a small band of norsican nomads? As far as I've read into Warhammer there are -lots- of champions of each god. Each tribe has thier own champions, each warband that pushes south into the lands of the softer races has thier own champion.

Khorne or Tzeentch doesnt shoot down from the sky and hand pick thier champions, they pop up all over the place. From what I've read about implimentation and current story lines, WAR will not be following anything other then its own path. Having Champions implimented as a heavy armour/dps class is a viable posibility with so many self proclaimed chapions afoot.

[MachiavelliDisciple]

What defines a champion of a god? A leader of a massive army? Or a leader of a small band of norsican nomads? As far as I've read into Warhammer there are -lots- of champions of each god. Each tribe has thier own champions, each warband that pushes south into the lands of the softer races has thier own champion.

Khorne or Tzeentch doesnt shoot down from the sky and hand pick thier champions, they pop up all over the place. From what I've read about implimentation and current story lines, WAR will not be following anything other then its own path. Having Champions implimented as a heavy armour/dps class is a viable posibility with so many self proclaimed chapions afoot.

Champions are more than just footsoldiers. They have transcended this; the only way one can become a champion is by earning an AWFUL lot of favour with your chosen deity. You cannot proclaim yourself to be a champion: you must first be gifted that title and whatever mutations go along with it. The champion of a god is the last step before reaching Daemonhood. So yes, they are quite special. To give you an idea the person leading the assault in WAR is a champion and while particularly large warbands can contain more than one champion in their ranks each is something of a general in the army. As for what you've read you are gravely mistaken: yes WAR follows a seperate timeline, but Games Workshop are working very closely with Mythic to ensure they stay as close to the canon as possible. Chaos champions ARE chosen by their gods and they're very powerful in the lore.

Oh and tribes don't have champions: warriors particularly viscious and favoured by their god seek their destiny by travelling into the wastes and searching for a warband. If they serve under one and are not killed, perhaps they may be gifted with the rank of champion and gather for themselves a warband of their very own. And Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh do bestow this: the chaos gods are very dynamic in their interaction with their followers ;) .

[Oak]

I don't think there is going to be 'Elite' or 'Hero' classes to avoid these issues.
You may see extra Tiers of abilities added though.

[MachiavelliDisciple]

I don't think there is going to be 'Elite' or 'Hero' classes to avoid these issues.
You may see extra Tiers of abilities added though.

Well this thread is largely conjecture; however it has been mentioned (and there are screenshots from in game) that Slayers for Dwarfs will be implemented. Mythic would have to implement something like this for all the races to avoid complaints.

[Oak]

Well this thread is largely conjecture; however it has been mentioned (and there are screenshots from in game) that Slayers for Dwarfs will be implemented. Mythic would have to implement something like this for all the races to avoid complaints.

The Slayers that are currently in game have been confirmed as playable?

[MachiavelliDisciple]

The Slayers that are currently in game have been confirmed as playable?

I'm not really sure to be honest; like I said this is largely conjecture.

[AxeAL]

Dont think you can play Champions as those are favored warriors of the gods itself and have alot powers, which wouldnt fit into this game (overpowered).

Playable classes are imo Chaos Marauder, Warrior, Sorcerer and Beastman.

Lets see if im right =)

[MachiavelliDisciple]

Dont think you can play Champions as those are favored warriors of the gods itself and have alot powers, which wouldnt fit into this game (overpowered).

Playable classes are imo Chaos Marauder, Warrior, Sorcerer and Beastman.

Lets see if im right =)

Well that's largely the argument against; but it is important to note the distinction. This would be as an elite class. Personally I don't think they will be implemented either way but it is best to be in possession of all the facts.

Also the Chaos race is 'Chaos Humans'. Not beastmen. Beastmen will be in as NPC's from what we have seen but not as a playable race/class. Besides Beastmen are so varied they deserve a race all of their own.

[Robjamysan]

This might be irrelevant, but I just finished playing through the Mark of Chaos demo.

In that, your champion is Thorgar the Blooded One. He is undivided towards the beginning, but at the end he enters into a cave. In the cave, he passes the trials of Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle, and after doing so, gets to choose his patron god.

Maybe something similar will be in WAR?

[Ralzar]

This might be irrelevant, but I just finished playing through the Mark of Chaos demo.

In that, your champion is Thorgar the Blooded One. He is undivided towards the beginning, but at the end he enters into a cave. In the cave, he passes the trials of Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle, and after doing so, gets to choose his patron god.

Maybe something similar will be in WAR?


Since you can only be Tzeench in WAR, I doubt it.

[Robjamysan]

Since you can only be Tzeench in WAR, I doubt it.

Yes, but I meant to put more emphasis on the actual trial than the choosing. Perhaps, upon reaching a set rank, a player could go through a trial (or series of trials) to be granted the rank of champion (or something to that extent)

Surely dwarfs will have to do something besides disgrace their ancestors to become Slayers.

[Kraus]

On the Vexed Question of Why Slayers Slay
An Investigation Into the Nature of the Dwarven Slayer Cult
By Wilhelm of Praag

Slayers belong to a dwarvish cult whose members seek death in combat against overwhelming odds. They do not seek victory, nor do they simply seek death. If they were merely suicidal, jumping off a cliff would do just as well. If they sought martyrdom, walking unarmed into a troll’s den would do the trick. Its not just death a slayer seeks, but a particular sort of death, a glorious death in battle.
This tells us something about the tortured nature of the dwarvish psyche. It also tells us something about the sort of dwarves who shave their heads and become slayers. Most of them claim to want to atone for some sin or crime, but they want more than that-they want to be remembered, and I suspect, in some ways they want to give their famous one fingered gesture of defiance to the society that spurned them, a subject of which I will write more later.

On the Nature of Dwarves
To see why Slayers behave the way they do, you need to consider more “normal” dwarvish psychology. Dwarves are a very clannish race who live in tightly knit, very regimented communities. They are, and they perceive themselves to be, a dying race surrounded by enemies on every side who seek to take what is rightfully theirs. Virtually every dwarvish settlement of any size is a fortress. Every dwarf knows everybody else in the community, and, dwarves being dwarves, they know the deeds of everybody’s ancestors and relatives unto the umpteenth generation. A dwarf takes great pride in the deeds of his ancestors, and a deed that brings dishonour upon a dwarf also reflects upon his kin. This can result in ostracism from the very community upon whom a dwarf depends for his very identity.
From earliest childhood, every dwarf is subjected to near military discipline, and every dwarf knows his place in the great scheme of things to the smallest degree.
Age and experience are respected by dwarves, youth and innovation are not. They are a practical and hardheaded race and have a great respect for what works and, more importantly, has been proven to work over the centuries. They are also very commercially oriented, and prize gold and wealth. They value hard work greatly. Indeed one of the worst insults a dwarf can use is to call another lazy.
Hair, in particular in the form of a beard is greatly prized by a dwarf. A long grey beard is seen as a sign of wisdom, experience and having been tempered by the world. Give the violent nature of the world in which dwarves live, it’s not a bad indicator. Although the natural span of a dwarvish life is considerably longer than that of a human, few male dwarves in this age of the world will live to die a death of natural causes. If a warrior has lived long enough to acquire grey hairs and a long beard, it is a fair indicator that he is very tough indeed.
Dwarf society is very hidebound, polite and ritualistic. Less senior dwarves have many ways to prove their humility to their elders. There are eleven different degrees of respect in the dwarvish tongue, and just as many variations in bows. Dwarvish etiquette is very complex, and difficult for an outsider to master, and woe betide any dwarf who makes a mistake in protocol. The incorrect use of the second person singular pronoun has resulted in many a battle between dwarvish clans.
Perhaps to counter-balance their naturally long lives, dwarves have a very low birth-rate. It is not uncommon for many dwarvish couples to be childless. A cruel Elvish joke states that this is because both sexes are so repulsive that they cannot endure to breed. (This is not a jest that you are advised to repeat in the presence of Dwarves-on matters of courtship and breeding they are extraordinarily touchy). In any case, children are prized when they come along, and family is everything to a dwarf. A clan’s children are considered a blessing on all its members. Dwarves work long and hard to provide for their future. Many childless dwarves seem to take to commercial enterprise as a substitute for the close family they lack.

The Origins of the Slayer Cult
The origins of the Slayer Cult are lost in time. Many scholars have speculated that it is somehow connected with the death quest of the dwarven Ancestor God Grimnir who vanished into the Chaos Wastes before the dawn of recorded time. The dwarves themselves, as always, remain closemouthed on the subject. All that is known is that the primary shrine of the cult, at Karak Kadrin was said to be the birthplace of Grimnir.

On Becoming a Slayer
At its simplest level, becoming a Slayer is easy, assuming you are a dwarf. You simply decide to become one. You take the slayer’s oath, and you shave your head, and perhaps your beard, as a sign that you have done so. The symbolic importance of this cannot be overstated. In a society where hair is considered an important symbol of status, such an act is supremely shocking.
Other aspects of the distinctive appearance that most people associate with slayers come later. It would seem that many slayers seek to draw attention to what they have become by acquiring tattoos, adopting the strange spiked-strip hairstyle common to slayers, by lowering their standards of personal hygiene and developing some new, and often repulsive personality quirks.
They also become far freer of speech, less respectful of authority and much more prone to aberrant behaviour than most normal dwarves. If you look closely, you can see that in many ways they are turning themselves into the exact opposite of what is considered typically dwarvish. They stress their individuality not their membership of their community.
Most but not all Slayers choose to make a pilgrimage to Karak Kadrin to take their vow in the great shrine of Grimnir there, and ritually burn their hair, and acquire a few tattoos. From the city of slayers they normally leave by the east gate onto the so-called Slayer’s road. Even if they do not head east, to fight the gobbos, this is the traditional route out of the city. Those slayers who have not made their pilgrimage but set out immediately on their death quest, will usually, if they survive, at some point try and make it to Karak Kadrin if only to boast about their battles to their peers, and renew their vows.
Now, having considered all of this, let us take a look at Slayers. In many ways a slayer can be seen as an affront to decent dwarvish society. They do not work, they rarely concern themselves with the accumulation of wealth (except what they can loot) and they do not seek to build a well-run business or a large patrimony they can pass on to their descendants. They are a rootless, restless crew who spend much of their time engaging in two of the other great passions of the dwarvish race, fighting and drinking. They show respect to no authority figure save perhaps the Slayer King, and the priests of the gods.
It would seem only logical that such figures would be ostracised by their fellow dwarves, as indeed they are, but that is not the whole story. Slayers can and do get away with a level of rudeness within their own society that would result in blood feuds, clan wars and mass destruction among the people, if the insults were perpetrated by any other dwarves. And they are in some ways, tolerated and even granted a great deal of respect by dwarves, far more so even than their formidable martial prowess would normally command. Indeed summoning the slayers is fairly normal practise for any dwarven king or clan lord before going into battle.
It might seem that providing a pool of formidably dangerous, and fearless cannon fodder would be enough of a reason for dwarves to tolerate or even encourage the Slayer cult, but I suspect there is another reason.
In every society, even our own, there are malcontents and rebels. Many of these are drawn to the dark and the forbidden cults of Chaos and work tirelessly for the overthrow of our realms. As far as is known, there are no similar cults among the dwarves-the so-called Chaos Dwarves are a different matter, and demand separate treatment which they will be given elsewhere. Given these circumstances, does it not seem possible, likely even, that one reason for this, is such naturally disruptive characters have been given a different outlet for their rebellious energies?
I contend that the Slayer Cult is one such outlet. It channels discontented young dwarves out of the mainstream of dwarvish society and into a short-lived but useful career removing threats to the clans, and fighting on their behalf. Of course, most of these dwarves have their own reasons for wanting to slay. Many have been crossed in love, becoming slayers when the dwarf woman of their choice chooses another. Even here we can see a purpose. In a society where men outnumber women by a large number, the cult may well provide a method of removing potentially disruptive rogue males. Other dwarves become slayers when they have lost face or honour. Given the nature of dwarven society, such an individual becomes all but useless anyway-for a dwarf who commands no respect can expect little from his fellows. The career of a slayer gives such people a way out, and a method of redeeming themselves and the good name of their clan, while ensuring they will not return and provide an embarrassment for their kin. I could go on, but I think the discerning reader can see by now the basic outlines of the picture I am painting. Far from being a leftover from a lost age of violence, the Slayer Cult represents a vital and useful part of dwarven society and one which demands much further study.

Readers should note that Doktor Wilhelm Koenig of Praag was tarred and feathered by a passing group of dwarves when he presented this paper at the Faculty of Natural Philosophy at the University of Altdorf.



http://www.trollslayer.net/essays/wss.html

Theres never really been much of an emphasis on slayers having to do anything other then taking an oath, then shaving eaither head, beard.. Or both. In the TT they go with older more experienced slayers to pick up some new tactics, but thats a unit based game - outside of it they just go out and die usually.

[ConverseSC]

Well this thread is largely conjecture; however it has been mentioned (and there are screenshots from in game) that Slayers for Dwarfs will be implemented. Mythic would have to implement something like this for all the races to avoid complaints.

You're ignoring the fact that they could EASILY ignore such complaints, and be the one company that has the testicular fortitude to actually ignore the whining forum masses. They seem adamant in catering to the minority in a lot of ways already, for some of the silly decisions I've been seeing lately.

[Ralzar]

testicular fortitude

I just felt that needed to be repeated :D

[Daoloth]

If they do decide to implement elite classes, I can fully see them going with an Aspiring Champion for the Chaos players. They're common enough in the TT to justify a handful on any battlefield, and have just a little bit of power increase over the unwashed masses. ;) Well, unChosen masses I guess I should say. Additionally they're still "ranked" under the leader of the warhost.

[checkthis5000]

You're ignoring the fact that they could EASILY ignore such complaints, and be the one company that has the testicular fortitude to actually ignore the whining forum masses. They seem adamant in catering to the minority in a lot of ways already, for some of the silly decisions I've been seeing lately.

I'm just curious about these "silly decisions" :p

[MachiavelliDisciple]

You're ignoring the fact that they could EASILY ignore such complaints, and be the one company that has the testicular fortitude to actually ignore the whining forum masses. They seem adamant in catering to the minority in a lot of ways already, for some of the silly decisions I've been seeing lately.

Two things: firstly while they could ignore it it would be detimental to the playerbase if they did. It could lead to the dwarven race being over-numbered and besides, elite classes for all races would be nice anyway.

Secondly Mythic is a business. You can rant about testicular fortitude all you wish but Mythic is a businss first and ultimately their main goal is to accumulate capital. Yes making a great game is pobably pretty high in their priorities but still, ignoring your customers is a good way of loosing money. Without as much sales revenue there may not be enough profit to pay for new game features. Worst case scenario they go bankrupt and then no more WAR whatsoever.

Besides 'testicular fortitude' sounds better coming from Stewie Griffon :p

[Fenwurz]

Also the Chaos race is 'Chaos Humans'. Not beastmen. Beastmen will be in as NPC's from what we have seen but not as a playable race/class. Besides Beastmen are so varied they deserve a race all of their own.

Don't say that, you'll jinx it and then i'll cry!!!

I think it would be quite hard to implement a proper chaos champion career into the game, since how I would define a champion of chaos god X is by a mutation, and also, lore wise, champions of chaos are really, really nasty blokes who could and would quite happily take on a regiment of lesser blokes. (lore wise, game wise they aren't as nasty)

[Vash108]

But as far as we've been told, that will be the general rank-advancement feature. Shouldn't elite be a bit more unique?

I wish and I hope mutations will be a unique thing, As in you will have many different types of things to choose from, or perhaps a randomized Mutaion, that you have no control over. That would be neat.

[Kraus]

No it wouldnt, its a game thats heavily basing itself on customization - if suddenly your character mutated in a way you didnt like and you had no control over it, Mythic would be recieving backlash.. Thats why permament mutations wont be in.

[Chilltouch]

You're ignoring the fact that they could EASILY ignore such complaints, and be the one company that has the testicular fortitude to actually ignore the whining forum masses. They seem adamant in catering to the minority in a lot of ways already, for some of the silly decisions I've been seeing lately.

Don't whine if you don't like the outcome of the game then!

[ghemml]

Archaon, Lord of the End Times and Crom the Conqueror needed. From then we have another great WAR.

But Age of Reckoning, not sure which timeframe it is created on. After the 1st great War or the second?

[Gharunkal]

Well, Slayers aren't a elite-class that make up out of a group of heroes. They're renegades, outcasts of Dwarfish society, making up for a past sin. They joined the Slayer-cult to redeem themselves from a crime, dieing heroically in battle against outnumbering odds.
I think the Chaos Elite-class shouldn't be a knight or champion at all, those are heroes. Slayers are not. My suggestions are leaning more forward to classes that are more or less outcasts, or different, instead of a leader. Just like Slayers.

My suggestions are:
A balanced Chaos Spawn (a Spawn with no great destruction power, just a creature mutated so far you can't recognise the former character anymore).
A Chaos Flayerkin, a being with metal weapons instead of arms, http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/flayerkin/1/ This Flayerkin is also alike to a Slayer in terms of defense and offense: almost no protection, alot of dealing of damage.

[Kraus]

Chaos will be human only, elite classes are not confirmed or practicularly planned at the moment. Dont expect to see things like Chaos Spawn, personally I'd love to play a flayerkin as a insane dpser char, but doesnt fit. :P

[Halfhand]

Whose worried about elite classes? Chaos has to come up with 4 regular classes first. No demons, coupled with Tzeentch not having sorcerers (only champions) makes for an interesting problem. I'm waiting to see what they can come up with.

[Ralzar]

coupled with Tzeentch not having sorcerers (only champions) makes for an interesting problem.

Just because the TT game doesn't have rules for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist ;)

[Halfhand]

I didn't mean Chaos won't have sorcerers, because they will. They will be champions, caster/tank hybrids. I just mean they shouldn't have both champions (caster/tank hybrid) and sorcerers (pure caster), which limits their options.

To quote the Hordes of Chaos book:

Note that Tzeentch Wizards are all Champions not Sorcerers...

[Seldaren]

But Age of Reckoning, not sure which timeframe it is created on. After the 1st great War or the second?

Consider the Storm of Chaos to just not have happened. The game isn't before it, and it's not after it, and it's not during it.

Karl-Franz is the Emperor though, so the game takes place during his reign.

WAR exists in a timeline that is basically outside the normal Warhammer Fantasy timeline.

So no Archeon, no Crom. No Valten either.

Seldaren

[Ralzar]

I didn't mean Chaos won't have sorcerers, because they will. They will be champions, caster/tank hybrids. I just mean they shouldn't have both champions (caster/tank hybrid) and sorcerers (pure caster), which limits their options.

To quote the Hordes of Chaos book:

Note that Tzeentch Wizards are all Champions not Sorcerers...

And I'll just repeat:

Just because the TT game doesn't have rules for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Kraus]

Halfhand - They have already come up with the classes, they may or may not revise them, but they already have the listing for all the races done. They just dont release the information to the public.

[Halfhand]

Halfhand - They have already come up with the classes, they may or may not revise them, but they already have the listing for all the races done. They just dont release the information to the public.

Yeah I know that. But I don't know the classes they came up with, so it will still be knew to me when they tell us and I'm interested in seeing what they are.

EDIT: Ralzar, this isn't a case of not having a rule for it. They have a rule for not having it. But hey, I'm not their mum; I have no authority. They still could have both, the lore just suggests they shouldn't.

[Gharunkal]

Dont expect to see things like Chaos Spawn.

Except as NPC's, hehe. In that way, I'm sure they're in. ;-)

[Crooked]

EDIT: Ralzar, this isn't a case of not having a rule for it. They have a rule for not having it. But hey, I'm not their mum; I have no authority. They still could have both, the lore just suggests they shouldn't.

I think the point is that this game will go beyond the restrictions seen in the TT game. WAR is based on the Warhammer universe, not on the Warhammer TT game.

[Ralzar]

EDIT: Ralzar, this isn't a case of not having a rule for it. They have a rule for not having it. But hey, I'm not their mum; I have no authority. They still could have both, the lore just suggests they shouldn't.

No, my point is that the TT Rules say they shouldn't. The lore on the other hand, has Tzeenchian sorcerors. The TT simplifies a lot of things a lot to make it work for a large scale war.
It's like we can't form up in formations in WAR, but that doesn't mean that no one ever uses formations in Warhammer ;)

[Vash108]

No it wouldnt, its a game thats heavily basing itself on customization - if suddenly your character mutated in a way you didnt like and you had no control over it, Mythic would be recieving backlash.. Thats why permament mutations wont be in.

Thinking more how the Chaos gods do things, they do things to their own will and bestowe their gifts as they see fit. Just like the IP. Would it be that unreasonable to keep it that way? I dont think so but i highly doubt they will do that.

I would think it would be neat to have random mutations and thats my opinion. ;)

And how could you mutate in a way you dont like. Seriously if you play Chaos you should know exactly what you are getting into its CHAOS. Check the definition sometime. Im sure if a follower of a god demanded a certain mutation from them they would be mutlilated beyond recognition.

[Kraus]

Then think about legions of angry fans and how poorly that works in a game where you have to spend time to build up YOUR character... :P TT players might understand, but doesnt mean people dont want to mutate randomly - but the majority of players most likely wont be from the TT or any of the games.

[MachiavelliDisciple]

Still... Mutations ARE an integral part of Chaos canon. Not the sort of canon that can be so lightly disregarded such as female dwarves actually in battle and goblin shamans. No, mutation is one of the major concept of chaos lore. Without mutation chaos is no longer so iconic or stylised. Such a thing cannot be so easily swept aside, even for the appeasement of the playerbase.

There is a compromise however. Either have a mutation as part of the talent sets so a player can actively choose, or perhaps make them purely aesthetic and chosen iduring character creation.

[Ralzar]

There is a compromise however. Either have a mutation as part of the talent sets so a player can actively choose, or perhaps make them purely aesthetic and chosen iduring character creation.

I'd go for something like that. Or have it as part of the development of your character appearance. Other people choose fancier armour, chaos chooses bigger mutations.

[MachiavelliDisciple]

I'd go for something like that. Or have it as part of the development of your character appearance. Other people choose fancier armour, chaos chooses bigger mutations.

This is, of course, both my preferrance and the most correct lore wise (gaining in strength=more viscious acts=god's favour) but still... that would probably come under the heading of 'random mutation'. Perhaps the mutations you chose in character creation become more pronounced or something. That way it limits the randomness and ties in, if rather loosely, with the lore. Of course one could argue that the 'talent mutations' would work in a similar, if more dynamic, fashion.

[Ralzar]

that would probably come under the heading of 'random mutation'.

Hey now. Other people get to choose and customize their armour, why shouldn't chaos players get to choose how they look?

This reminds me of a big discussion about mutations we had a good while back. To sum it up:

Random mutations: You make a character and play him for ages. One day he develops chicken legs. Now you cringe whenever you see your character. So, you hae to reroll and start over again in the hopes of your character not getting messed up this time.

Mutations as selectable "feats": Chicken legs are way better than other mutations. You have to have chicken legs to compete in PvP. And no one want to team with you if you're a normal feeted gimp. So either suck it up and join the chicken-footed army of chaos or roll another race.

[Smachaz]

but....but....we don't even know what the basic classes are:confused: :(

[MachiavelliDisciple]

Hey now. Other people get to choose and customize their armour, why shouldn't chaos players get to choose how they look?

This reminds me of a big discussion about mutations we had a good while back. To sum it up:

Random mutations: You make a character and play him for ages. One day he develops chicken legs. Now you cringe whenever you see your character. So, you hae to reroll and start over again in the hopes of your character not getting messed up this time.

Mutations as selectable "feats": Chicken legs are way better than other mutations. You have to have chicken legs to compete in PvP. And no one want to team with you if you're a normal feeted gimp. So either suck it up and join the chicken-footed army of chaos or roll another race.

Sad but true. The only feasible way of implementing it IS to have them purely as an aesthetic choice in the character creation screen. Then problems of developers having to create different armor textures for each and every mutation. *shrug* We can but hope we get some mutant loving.

[Vash108]

The Random mutations would make alot more characters look unique and you wouldnt see as many copies running around.

Plus if you play a chaos character you arent playing it to be a "cute" character or Symetrical by any means. You play chaos to be a mean mutated SOB that has horns and nasty apendages and all that good stuff.

[Kraus]

Machiavelli, mutation IS in, just random uncontrollable permament mutations arent in... And goblins shamans are in the lore. Personally I expect that mutations will be tied to the skill tree, as you advance in certain lines of it, they will become representative on the character.

[Vash108]

I just dont want to see Clones is all. Mutations should be a wide variety, and it woudl suck to just see a bunch of people look the same.

[Kraus]

Using the estimate that the skill tree is what mutations will be tied to, theres a huge varience, not to mention the individual customization of each character to make him look the way you want. Have some faith. :P

[Vash108]

High expectations can lead to a very long fall. But I still have my concerns and i have alot of things i would love to see. Mainly because i want this game to be great.

[Kraus]

Its not really a high expectation, we already know customization is a big importance, and trophies, armor difference, display differences, character diferences, evolution and what not should help spread out any cloneage.