Chaos Healers

[Halfhand]

I'm just interested to hear what ideas people have with regards to a Chaos healing class. We've been given some info on the classes we knew were going to be there. The other two possibilties are a little more difficult, however.

I'm not "really" well versed in Chaos lore, but they always seem a lot better at killing things than making them feel better. So healing does present a little bit of a challenge.

I have a couple of ideas. But I want to hear from you guys first. So what do you think?

[Nathar]

I'm honestly not sure at all. I've read a bit of chaos lore (have the army book, but not beyond that, I'm Druchii mostly) and there's nothing that makes me go "Obviously, healer right there!". That being said, the sorcerer might just be the healer himself.

Anyone who knows the tzeentch spells while (I hope) agree with me that it's all flames, but different from the fire flames that exist in the real world. They have different colours and effects and maybe, just maybe some of those flames will be healing. It might not be likely because he has so much fire power he's most likely purely a dps kinda guy, but it 'is' a possibility.

[Commentaris]

i see a couple of possibilities:

- healing through (temporary) mutations. mutation is a very tzeentchian thing. mutation and healing have some superficial similaraties.

- healing through "breath of life". this is a unique gift of tzeentch, although it's only Aekold Helbrass that has it afaik.

- healing through a tap type spell. like some defender powers in CoH for example. basically a spell that drains/debuffs the target and restores health to all those around the healer.

hope mythic comes up with something better though...heh

[Halfhand]

Healing through mutations did come to mind. But I'm not sure how you could put that in without it seeming like a quick and dirty excuse to add healing spells.

For example, instead of: ChaosHealer casts HealSpell01, target heals for 100hp.
You would have: ChaosHealer cast Mutation01, target heals for 100hp.

Indirect healing via lifetaps and hp funnels seems kinda likely. But I'd hope they do something more interesting. Maybe the spells could actually be buffs and the target needs to then cause some damage in order to tap his opponent's hp for himself.

I am not familiar with the "breath of life" though. How does it work?

[Ruinx]

I don't see how "lifetaps and funnels" make any sense at all in the context of Chaos, especially not in the context of Tzeentch. Since when have you heard of Tzeentchian forces draining things, especially life-energy. That sounds like an Undead/Vampire ability to me.

Tzeentch is the Lord of Change, not the Lord of dubious Lifetaps. Chaos Warriors are the Chosen of Tzeentch, not EQ Shadowknights.

Chaos is not, and never has been about "life-energy" and transferring it around, and it would make no more contextual sense than "healing by mutation". Indeed, healing by mutation would probably make MORE sense, and it need not heal in the way you suggest, either.

Considering that Tzeentch is the Lord of Change, I'd be unsurprised if we saw a fourth Chaos class (after Champion, Sorceror and Marauder) who was called something like "Changer", who would probably be a mid-light armoured class (to break things up from PlatePlatePlate in armour-appearance) who filled a buffer/healer/debuffer role by temporarily inducing mutations and changes in his friends and foes. You could easily have some kind of short-term mutation that acted as a powerful HoT, for example, or made the target extremely resistant to some form of damage.

I'm not saying we'll definately see that class, or that it's a great idea, but I'd be unsurprised. Personally I think temporary mutations are a dumb idea, but Mythic seem to be considering implementing mutations that way, and it makes more sense to Tzeentch than "Lifetap Master" who lifetaps the enemies and transfers the energy to his friends.

[Flegler]

About the breath of life: it's a unique gift of Tzeentch possessed by the champion Aekold Helbrass. He has an aura of growth and regeneration, to the extent that plants grow in his footsteps. It means that Aekold and everybody standing near him, friend or foe, constantly regenerates their wounds. I've always like the idea, it emphasises the many unexpected aspects of Tzeentch.

The need for a healing class is another good reason for going with Tzeentch - healing can be shoehorned into his change-and-expansion image fairly easily, whereas it'd be very hard to justify a Khornate healer. A healing sorceror of Nurgle or Slaanesh would be conceivable, considering how their followers can endure massive levels of pain or decay without any real harm, but that's beside the point. I guess we'll see another sorceror type to heal for Chaos, with plenty of mutation-themed buffs.

[drunkmime]

Mabye instead of healing the wounds it just changes them.

For example it give a high numerical heal with a debuff for the healed player.

[Halfhand]

Well Ruinx, I too hope that lifetaps are not used. And I suppose they would fit more with the other Chaos gods anyway. But I still wouldn't rule them out.

And mutation HoT are not much different to the example I gave.

For example, instead of: ChaosHealer casts HealSpell01, target heals for 100hp (over 10 seconds).
You would have: ChaosHealer cast Mutation01, target heals for 100hp (over 10 seconds).

The biggest job there is trying to disguise it. I agree, it does seem the most likely option. I do hope they come up with something more interesting however.

Breath of life sounds ok. Though it would have to be implemented as more than just a healing aura to keep people interested in healing (I think).

Hopefully they will come up with a cool game mechanic involving mutating/chaos energies. They seem to have done a good job with goblin shamen and Waaagh! energy. So here's hoping.

[Kazgut]

Lifetaps are more of a Dark Elf thing really, I agree with mutations and that life heal aura (much weaker version then the champion's though :P). It could actually be just a healing aura which activates like a normal heal only rather then targetting it spreads around you ala Defender in CoH.

[Khon]

Think the chaos healer will be more of a tribal shaman type guy from the northlands, they worship the chaos gods as well and it makes more sense to me to have this sort of char, don't see the whole healing through mutation thing working out.

From my hordes of chaos armybook:

"To the men of the north their sorcerers are priests as well as warriors, and are among the most important of all members of the tribe"

Sounds like a shaman healer type to me.

[Smachaz]

It would be easy to do it ''Chaos''. Make it some kind of mutation over the wound or just some kind of ''Ignore Pain''

[Commentaris]

From my hordes of chaos armybook:

"To the men of the north their sorcerers are priests as well as warriors, and are among the most important of all members of the tribe"

Sounds like a shaman healer type to me.
there's already a Shaman in the game. the goblin. Mythic wont make 2 classes with the same name and same general mechanics on the same side.

[Khon]

there's already a Shaman in the game. the goblin. Mythic wont make 2 classes with the same name and same general mechanics on the same side.

Who says it has to have the same name or general mechanics ? I just used the shaman name since most people have a rough idea of what that would be from EQ or WOW, and it's certainly possible to make 2 healer classes that aren't the same. The Chaos one for example could be more melee oriented rather than offensive spells like the goblin.

Don't see you complaining that all 6 factions have a tank thus they must be the same.

[Commentaris]

hey dont shoot me for you using a word that is the name of an already existing class.

how you went from "their sorcerers are priests as well as warriors" to "shaman" is beyond me anyways.

ofcourse chaos is getting a healing class, did i claim other wise? they wont have a shaman though, like you mentioned. they might have a chaos equivalent of a warrior priest though, like their empire counterpart, clad in fairly heavy armour, always in the thick of battle etc.

that's much closer to the decription from that line you quoted

[Khon]

You seem to get stuck on the word, rather than the realize that I meant it not as a name but rather as a description for those who have played previous mmorpg's.

The barbaric/tribal healer class with a melee flavor is usually called a shaman, hence my use of that word, I wasn't suggesting they name it that in this game as well.

Difference being that a warrior priest is a holy plate wearing guy from an advanced urban society, not at all what I think the Chaos class will be.

[Nerror]

Well, Khorne has Warrior-Priests, according to the Liber Chaotica. I really doubt it's a healing kinda priest though, more a killing kinda priest. They are loners, tending to the Khorne shrines and such in the chaos lands.

Anyway, it's hinted that the other 3 gods have warrior-priests (or similar) as well, so a Tzeentchian warrior-priest wouldn't surprise me at all. Besides, anything is possible with Tzeentch. :)

[Ralzar]

Anyway, it's hinted that the other 3 gods have warrior-priests (or similar) as well, so a Tzeentchian warrior-priest wouldn't surprise me at all. Besides, anything is possible with Tzeentch. :)

Yeah, I'm allmost expecting some kind of marauder shaman-esque class with melee DPS and buffs. Maybe the chaos version of what the Warrior Priests of the Empire are.

[Vervayne]

The Chaos healer is the class I intend to play.
I've thought about how it will fit in with other healers on the destruction side, and because of that element, I believe the Chaos healer will probably be the most tank-ish type healer on the Destruction side, probably in plate armor, just the way I like 'em!
I'm picturing sort of an anti-paladin type. Like a dark priest.

I figured they'll have some sort of lifetap spells, but after reading what Ruinx wrote, perhaps that won't be the case. Healing through mutation sounds more likely. I'd like to hear more on protection spells that could be implemented based on the background of the Tzeentch, maybe some sort of auras.

[Accipiter]

Don't forget that the Empire healing class seems to be a melee character. They may balance that with the Chaos healer also being melee rather than a cloth-wearing caster.

What that means from a lore point of view, I haven't the foggiest.

[Vervayne]

Oh no doubt there will be a melee type healer on the Order side as well. Gotta keep everything balanced. :) Although hopefully they will be quite different in abilities. Hate how WoW has the same stuff on both sides. Meh.

[Axxar]

The chaos sorcerers in Mark of Chaos have a life-draining ability that even lets them resurrect troops. Though with the information we've received so far, this doesn't seem to be the role of the Magus.

[Lord Semaj]

You know, you don't have to be a paladin or anti-paladin to be a plate wearing healer. Clerics have been plate wearers in many games, starting with D&D over 30 years ago.

[V'raneth]

Here's an idea. Temporary HPs. Imagine it this way, the Chaos buffer/healer/supportish guy who I'm going to call the Mutator for now, treats your wounds by warping your body to staunch the blood flow or splint the break, etc. The deal is, though, the healing done is a wound to a mortal body in it's own rite and eventually catches up with you, ie. the HPs disappear.

it's not true healing, but I think that suits Chaos, and it still allows the Mutator to keep people in the fight, so long as the fight doesn't last too long. The skills could do moderate healing, with relatively low energy cost and relatively low casting time in order to keep them useful. The mutator would of course be more focused on his violent mutations than his healing ones. I dunno. Just throwing a possibility out there.

[freeid]

I would not worry about it, If they can manage to wangle a healer into the Greenskins I am sure they can manage it for Chaos.

[Vervayne]

You know, you don't have to be a paladin or anti-paladin to be a plate wearing healer. Clerics have been plate wearers in many games, starting with D&D over 30 years ago.

True. The difference is the Paladin is typically the protector tankish type with a big weapon, and the cleric more of a pure healer in heavy armor.

[Accipiter]

I would not worry about it, If they can manage to wangle a healer into the Greenskins I am sure they can manage it for Chaos.

Good point.

[Commentaris]

I would not worry about it, If they can manage to wangle a healer into the Greenskins I am sure they can manage it for Chaos.

handy thing about the greenskins though is they have shamans. shamans in general, although no in warhammer really, are known for having some healing powers.

chaos lacks even the hint of a healing class

[Grymloq]

Maybe they could give each class a way to heal them self... by mutations from their god/master. just give them some good cooldowns and costs and it could work.

[Ruinx]

You know, you don't have to be a paladin or anti-paladin to be a plate wearing healer. Clerics have been plate wearers in many games, starting with D&D over 30 years ago.

Yes but what does that have to do with anything?

[Lord Semaj]

Replying to a point by another poster. Problem?

[IronToe]

Healing mutation = healing spell whit random things happening to the player getting healed (the most dangerous of them would turn him to a chaos spawn)

:D

[Node]

Oddly enough, Paul says in the Gamespy interview that the only Chaos God who's involved with life is Nurgle.

He says "Also, by the way, in a piece of irony -- Nurgle is the only one that deals with life, because he's the only Chaos God that actually creates life." This is in Part 7 of the video interview.

[Drunkenmaster]

Well, perhaps the temporary mutations are just mutations with the unintended side effect of regenerative abilities or, or replacing them outright, say a chaoswarrior got a wound on his arm, the changer then temporarly spawns him a new arm, twisted ugly looking ofcourse, and by replacing the arm the wound is gone aswell.

Or they could provide mutations as some kind of ward healer, Like the mystic/defiler of eq2
Ie instead of reparing damage taken, you actually absorb it. Changer casts Chaos evil tentacles on chaos warrior, chaos warrior absorbs damage taken. Adds another dimension and variation to the various healers.

[Vail]

Life Transfers Merged with Life Taps is a possiblilty.

Spell: Seal the Soul: Player X receives x% life. Caster losses half of the amount.

Simple enough. Dangerous but effective. The give the charater some Life Taps like we have seen the Orcs skill list has and you have a basic class combo.

I am sure there will be "heals" as well. Spells like "Chaos within You" and "Pain Means Nothing" would be spell titles apporpriate to the cause. But this is speculation.

It woudl be interesting imo to merge the Summoner role with the healer role in Chaos. Maybe sacrificing pets for AOE heals etc.

[Arijharn]

I think the most likely way Chaos is going to get healers is by themselves, ie., no 'dedicated' healing class (because I believe they have already said there wasn't going to be dedicated support classes), like an Anti-Paladin. Perhaps the better in combat they do, Tzeentch will 'taunt' his enemies by providing his numerous chosen and sorceror's with a self-healing buff that heals for a small amount, but has subtle (which is very Tzeentchian in it's own right...) stacking effects, encouraging people to work together in a form of regimental formations.

But honestly, of all the gods, a drain life move I think would make sense the most with Tzeentch than say Nurgle or even Slaanesh simply because Tzeentch likes nothing more to confound and confuse his opponents, albeit at Machavellian sized plots, but he is called the great Deceiver so who is to second guess Tzeentch? (which also rather conveniently allows game designers to let Tzeentch get away with essentially anything they wish). Khorne wouldn't do it at all I believe because you're using magic to damage your opponent (which of course, he despises).

[Kraus]

Arijhan - there is no dedicated support class, but everyone is getting a class thats a bit more healy then the others. Rune Priests, Shamans.etc... And everyone so far it looks like can self heal.

Irontoe - randomly causing really nasty affects on allies generally doesnt work well :P

[Joona]

Healing through mutations?
Well I dunno is it just me, but how does that work when your supposed to heal, lets say goblin?

[Drunkenmaster]

Well, It's the faith and power of the caster, the " changer" has the ability to spawn temporary mutations on anyone willing, wether they believe in chaos or not.

I don't know, but somethings will have to be overlooked for the sake of gameplay, I could see this as one of those small things

[Ethandril]

Tzeentch, the Changer of Ways could award a Champion also with the "Gift of Healing",
similar to the "Breath of Life", granted to

Aekold Hellbrass, Champion of Tzeentch (http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/special-characters/2/)

More and more I understand why Mythic has chosen Tzeentch for Chaos ;)

[shaman64]

Here's an idea. Temporary HPs. Imagine it this way, the Chaos buffer/healer/supportish guy who I'm going to call the Mutator for now, treats your wounds by warping your body to staunch the blood flow or splint the break, etc. The deal is, though, the healing done is a wound to a mortal body in it's own rite and eventually catches up with you, ie. the HPs disappear.

it's not true healing, but I think that suits Chaos, and it still allows the Mutator to keep people in the fight, so long as the fight doesn't last too long. The skills could do moderate healing, with relatively low energy cost and relatively low casting time in order to keep them useful. The mutator would of course be more focused on his violent mutations than his healing ones. I dunno. Just throwing a possibility out there.

I had a similiar idea like this, I know its simple, but why not just close the skin over the wound? He is the changer of ways.

[Instant_Karma]

Mutation is definatly more T'zeentch-ian than life taping. However, I don't like the idea of this "priest" simply healing but under the guise of "mutation"; that doesn't fit in with T'zeentch at all. Perhaps instead of "healing" what is mutations that could absorb damage?

Example: T'zeentch "Priest" casts Mutation01 which cases target to absorb 100 dmg; lasts 15 secs etc.

Not quite as original but at least it seems to fit in better; Chaos doesn't heal; though some of them have items that can regenerate. In general having Chaos buffs under the guise of mutations I think fits well.

Example: T'zeentch "Priest" casts Mutation02 which causes target to grow an tentacle arm that attacks whoever the person buffed has targeted for X dmg for 30 secs etc.

One thing I will make clear; aside from buffs and debuff, this caster if he will come into existence should not have an ranged attacks. It's so un-Chaos for anyone except a Sorcerer to have ranged attacks and that part of the flavor of Chaos and one of their main weaknesses; a lack of ranged attacks and fire power aside from their uber magic users.

Eh, I don't know. I was so happy that for the most part with DoW they kept the flavor of each of the different races and you had to play them to their stregnths to overcome their weaknesses. That was the balance to the game, and I hope in some way they can bring that into this game without unbalancing the game play or creating a bunch of whiners.:(