Hint for the other two classes? [Archive]

Ralzar

11-25-2006, 07:08 AM

I was watching the gamespy vids again and soemthing struck me at the start of part VI:

The personification of chaos that we are showing, we're showing two elements of it. Element number one is the people who lived in the northern parts of the lands. The sort of viking-esque people. Who decided to follow the bird god. Who decided to start their walk towards corruption. Guys wearing fur and leather and studs and big axes, and they wonder around and they got big teeth. Like the opening of the Conan movie.
We're also showing the people who have comitted to the cause and are wearing the armour and deciding to fly around on discs.

So, we've gotten to see the guys wearing the armour and flying around on discs. Looks like there's a good chance that the other two classes will be viking-esque classes.
A Marauder DPS-class has allways seemed like a pretty probable class for chaos. The second class might be some kind of priest. Perhaps a "Priest of Tzeench", or somesuch name, with support magic.
What do you think?

Commentaris

11-25-2006, 07:14 AM

could very well be, yes.

they keep hinting at that the Chaos humans that make up the playable chaos faction in WAR consist of the Norse people, north of the emptie, south of the actual chaos wastes. the sorcerer and warrior careers are clearly people who have dedicated themselves to tzeentch fully but dont strike me as partcularly norsican. in some way tho, chaos in WAR should be recognisable as being norsican. why else mention it eh?

Nerror

11-25-2006, 08:21 AM

Possible yes, but there's nothing telling me that chaos warrior couldn't just as well be a norscan. Fun to speculate, but we really don't have anything solid yet to base it on. It's a bit like the "not having their feet on the ground" comment. I am sure it's obvious from Paul's POV, but to the rest of us it's still completely up in the air (pun not intended) if he means mounts, wings or something else.

Kraus

11-25-2006, 11:20 AM

Both the sorcerer and the chosen would be from viking-esque people most likely :P Regardless, there has been problems pointed out before. Assuming the Chosen is the Tank class (we dont know yet) and a Maurader will be implimented as a DPS; Chaos Warriors are some of the most dangerous melee warriors out there, and its maurader > chaos warrior > chosen in terms of their progression... So it would seem silly for them to progress to a tank eh?

Gharunkal

11-25-2006, 04:30 PM

Well, so far, all Chaos incursions were combined of renegades (typical warriors and armoured sorcerers) and Marauders as the cattle.'For me it's plausible, seeing sort of the same happening with the Greenskins. Goblins are lesser and Orcs are big bulky bullies. Why not having the same in the classes of the Chaos? 2 Barbarians and 2 renegades ala warriors/sorcerers, just like Ralzar putted it there.

Kraus

11-26-2006, 02:13 AM

Cause Chosen are a bit beyond your standard barbarian already, and it owuld be weird to put them behind a barbarian for damage :P

Rik Riorik

11-26-2006, 02:16 AM

It DOES seem silly. No doubt about it, Marauders are all lowly compared to the champions of the Dark Gods (which in essence means anyone donning a suit of all encasing living armour). Still a crazed Marauder with a great weapon can do horrible things.

Got to love the Marauders though, who truly are the numerous of the soldiery of the Northern Wastes (exceeded perchance only by the Beastmen?). Chaos Warriors and what not in all their glory but they are few in number by comparison. A Marauder of the Kurgan tribe of the Kul awaits WAR within me. Asavar Kul + Vardek Crom the Conqueror > All.

Kraus

11-26-2006, 03:22 AM

Yeah, but dont you think it seems a bit weird to reiterate a class by taking two steps backwards to something they were a long long time ago?

Ralzar

11-26-2006, 06:16 AM

In a way i agree. I also sort of feel it's a bit weird. But at the same time i can't shake the feeling that it's the most probable solution for them to come to.
It's funny, but Chaos seems to be the faction with the least diverse character concept to base classes on. They're basically all either chaos warriors or chaos sorcerors. It's just a matter of where on the "ladder" they are.

I think Mythic is going for a class system where at any level, there is a diversity in the army that compares to the TT armies.
Take greenskins for example; no matter what tier you're at, the Greenskin army will be composed of a mix of goblins and orcs. Because there's supposed to be both goblins and orcs in a greenskin army.

This might also be why Hammerers don't just develop into Slayers. You'd have a Slayer army at the top, which isn't how it's supposed to be.

I think they're trying to make a diverse "believable" army at all levels.

So, they don't want only chaos warriors and sorcerers at the top level. They want them mingledin with marauder tribesmen, because that's a large part of any chaos army.

Btw, if marauder is a class, I hope they develop into something like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Berzerkir/c_as_2105.jpg

That aughta be on the same level as a chaos warrior :D

Vervayne

11-26-2006, 10:22 AM

My guess on the final 2 chaos classes:

High DPS, light armor Tank
Plate-wearing Healer/Priest

spirit

11-26-2006, 02:33 PM

I'd imagine the norscans would have to be hero-level marauders- so a marauder chieftain and maybe some kind of tribal shaman (except not called a shaman of course), or a hunting marauder who uses a bow or throwing spear.

Halfhand

11-26-2006, 03:19 PM

A Marauder shouldn't out dps a Chosen you say? Then give Hounds! Hounds I say!

We definately need some Hounds in this game!

Seldaren

11-27-2006, 06:32 AM

Plate-wearing Healer/Priest

That's kinda what the Magus/Sorcerer is though :) .

Seldaren

Ralzar

11-27-2006, 06:54 AM

That's kinda what the Magus/Sorcerer is though :) .

Seldaren

If your image of a healer is "flies around on a disc and shoots lightning" :P

Gahn

11-27-2006, 06:58 AM

Arijharn

11-27-2006, 03:28 PM

My guess on the final 2 chaos classes:

High DPS, light armor Tank
Plate-wearing Healer/Priest

Oh, so basically the Empire just more... evil? Okay, I make that comment without knowing what their 'High DPS, light armor tank' actually is, but I hope they don't have an anti-paladin in the form of Plate-wearing Healer/Priest. In fact, I kinda hope that they don't have any healer/priest to begin with, instead allowing all their classes a measure of independability.

I think it would be cool if the Chaos Warriors were actually both their light armour high DPS and tank classes, and that there are two entirely different classes yet to be announced. Would it be overpowered? Depends entirely on how they implement it. Of course, point for point, Chaos Warriors are the most powerful melee combatants in the old world, their weapon skill almost rivals a lesser hero of any other race. I think it would be somewhat criminal if Mythic didn't serve to encapsulate that somehow.

I think it would be hard to balance a race totally geared for war like Chaos. I don't think that there's engineer's toiling away to create weapons for them (although definitely mages toiling away to create even more powerful versions of their spells), almost everything they get is given to them by their gods. Likewise, if you're injuried, I can't see anyone give you a helping hand (infact, they'd probably just kill you to appease their god, especially if they're followers of Khorne).

Perhaps that's all they have, Warriors and Sorcerors. Yet they have a higher degree of sub-specialising than any other race?

Vervayne

11-27-2006, 07:22 PM

Oh, so basically the Empire just more... evil? Okay, I make that comment without knowing what their 'High DPS, light armor tank' actually is, but I hope they don't have an anti-paladin in the form of Plate-wearing Healer/Priest. In fact, I kinda hope that they don't have any healer/priest to begin with, instead allowing all their classes a measure of independability.

We've already been told every race will have a character with healing abilities.
Considering the description of the Empire's Warrior Priest doesn't sound much like a Paladin type, it seems to me that Chaos has the best chance of getting the high defense healer, assuming there's one in the game at all. The elves will more than likely have caster-oriented classes with healing ability.

It would be rather redudant to give Chaos more than one of any kind of class. A few different kinds of DPS tanks.. what would be the point? I think it would gimp them. You need a well-balanced mix in most cases to counter opposing groups.

As far as being independant, we've already been told that even healing classes will be a part of the fight, and will probably be able to solo just as well as any other class, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Kraus

11-27-2006, 09:10 PM

Not to mention theres several other classes with healing abilities also to toss in, and everyone appears to be able to self-heal through morale - healers arent so pegged.

VodinHeavyHammer

11-28-2006, 09:25 AM

MachiavelliDisciple

11-28-2006, 09:47 AM

Has everyone forgotten about the beasts of chaos? I can see a Beastigor as another class and a Bray shammy. They are of chaos they are stronger then the marauders and they are quite simply friggin awesome!(Yes i am biased i play beasts table top.) Thats what I think they are gonna do for the next two classes or atleast need to do.

I shall reitirate this one more time: beasts of chaos ARE NOT playable at release. People speculate they shall eventually become so in an expansion as a seperate race (which is best in my opinion as they certainly warrant a race of their very own) but till then expect only to kill them.

Kraus

11-28-2006, 01:02 PM

To elaborate on Machiavellis post... ONLY the Hordes of Chaos human classes are available.

Ruinx

11-28-2006, 02:38 PM

Honestly, I know Marauders are basically just "Chaos Warrior Jr.", but I'll be very surprised if we don't see them, because, looking at the Hordes of Chaos army list, there's not much else there as a possibility.

They're almost certainly going to have to make up the fourth class, I mean, let's look at what *human* units a Tzeentch Chaos army can take:

Lord of Tzeentch, Champion of Tzeentch, Sorceror of Chaos - All basically powerful Sorcerors or Warriors.

Marauders of Chaos, Chaos Marauder Horsement, Warriors of Chaos, Knights of Chaos, Chaos Warrior Chariot - The first two are Marauders (duh), the last three are Chaos Warriors, i.e. "Chosen".

Aaaaaand that's it.

What else could be in the army? Warhounds of Chaos, Chaos Furies, Screamers, Horrors of Tzeentch, Chaos Spawn.

So really, I don't envy the task Mythic have of coming up with two more distinct-yet-setting-plausible units for Tzeentch. There's certainly no-one obvious to me. I'd be unsurprised if we saw Marauders (maybe with Chaos Warhounds) but the fourth class? So long as it's nothing as lame-tastic as an "anti-paladin" or an "anti-priest" (kill me now), I'll be okay. Tzeentch isn't about "anti", he's about change, which I guess leads back to some kind of "Changer" class (perhaps with summoning capabilities, after all, what is that but changing the borders of reality or the location of things).

Kraus

11-28-2006, 03:36 PM

I honestly wouldnt be surprised eaither, but I'm a bit squeamish. They are enough of a difference that people wont directly relate them to each other (those unfamiliar with the IP, which will most likely be the majority of gamers). I'm fine if they put them in, but just squeamish about being superior to Chosen in tanking or DPSing. If they go for example, a maurader houndmaster or something thats been suggested before - or an axe thrower, something that exists in the IP but doesnt overlap with Chosen, I'll be fine with it :P

Wouldnt mind eaither if we got a kind of possessed class, but dont expect it personally. *Shrug*

Mirander

11-28-2006, 06:07 PM

Mauraders will probably be the third Chaos class. As for it being against the IP for them to do more damage than Chosen Warriors, I think it could all depend on how it's done. What if the Mauraders were also Berserkers? The ability to fly into a rage could very well be enough to push their damage beyond what Warriors are capable of. Perhaps they could start off as inferior to the Chosen's damage, but as their rage builds they are capable to matching, then surpassing the Chosen in damage.

As for the fourth class, I'm thinking Daemonologist. A pet class that could summon Horrors, Flamers, Screamers, and perhaps high-level Daemonologists could even work together to summon a Lord of Change.

Lord Semaj

11-28-2006, 09:41 PM

While I doubt they'll be in due to a lack of Khorne and Nurgal, Bloodmages and Necromancers have been healers in other games. Not impossible to suspect Tzeentch has his own variety, and the warriors of Tzeentch are notibly tough as nails. Then again, Champions can maybe field the healing powers as commanders and leaders bolstering allies.

Shaggy

11-28-2006, 09:58 PM

I don't think Chaos needs a pet class, if any race should get a pet class it should be the Dark Elves.

What I suggested before was a self-buffer. The possed Chaos warrior summons a demon who takes over the player's "soul".

For example, you sacftrice your moral or mana to summon a demon prince of Norsca, who was banished back to Warp by a bright wizard. You would take more damage from fire but you would do more damage to bright wizards.

You could also summon minor demons to the field, who only real job is to be a nuisance to the enemy. Thou might start unbalancing the class.

This would let the Chosen to become the DPS of Chaos and the Possed Chaos Warrior become the tank.

Commentaris

11-29-2006, 03:04 AM

the 'chaos healer' doesn;t have to be a marauder. it could just as easily be a chaos sorcerer.

tzeentch' blessings as many and it's perfectly possible, imo, to have a DPS type sorcerer (the magus) and a healing type sorcerer.

Cranmer

11-29-2006, 03:32 AM

Ralzar

11-29-2006, 04:35 AM

Yeah, Marauder is quite possible. Look at the orcs for example. Black Orc is something more than a normal orc (in form of Choppa) so he should deal more dmg and yet he's "only" a tank. Marauders surely look cool - body full of muscules, horned helmet, ability to wield many various weapons - sounds like a great dps-er to me.

Yeah, that's pretty much my reasoning as well. Chaos Warriors basically are the "Black Orcs" of Chaos. While Marauders generally run around in a haphazard collection of armour bits and usually armed with two weapons.
I seem to remember the Liber Chaotica describing the problem of fighting marauders being that they have no regard for personal safety and simply storm at the enemy and start swinging until either they or their enemies go down.

Grymloq

11-29-2006, 11:22 AM

I keep reading about priests but who says chaos even has priests?
I have never ever seen or heard about chaos priests before chaos isnt priesthood although its a religion. i have no idea what other classes they intent to make for chaos but maybe they will add daemons? flamer of tzeench or horrors or maybe even beastman?

I dont think they should make all 4 classes humans.

Ralzar

11-29-2006, 11:48 AM

I dont think they should make all 4 classes humans.

As said so many, many times: MYthic and GW think differently. The Chaos faction in WAR is the Hordes of CHaos, consisting of humans ONLY.

Robbso

11-30-2006, 08:49 PM

I think one of the two remaining will have to be something slightly invented and not from the army list, but loosely drawn from IP, there's simply not enough directly in the army book. Chaos dont need a pet class so I hope its something else, but i would be very surprised if niether option features chaos hounds or various tzeentch demons.

Disciple

12-01-2006, 12:27 PM

Cause Chosen are a bit beyond your standard barbarian already, and it owuld be weird to put them behind a barbarian for damage :P

/agree

as i understand it chosen have totally given themselves to a particular god, and that god has recognized them and bestowed upon them some gift of chaos. so perhaps a marauder will progress into chosen? or perhaps marauders into warriors.

but kraus has a point..chosen are dps and tanks. marauders wouldnt make sense. no no...i htink we are missing something here.

Severoth

12-01-2006, 04:03 PM

Just a few misunderstandings of the original lore in here guys.

Pretty much a Chaos Marauder is your standard norse barbarian. He then progresses into a Chaos Warrior when they have proven themselves to the Chaos gods. However they are not "Chosen".

A Chaos warrior serves no god singuarly until he has become marked. When he wears the mark of Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh or Tzeentch, he then is on the path to becoming a champion of their god. This process is called having him "Marked" and is not "Chosen"

Chaos Chosen, are in the Warhammer world, an upgrade you can pay for your Chaos Warriors. This moves them into a special unit category (similar to black orcs) and they can be equipped with great weapons (ie two handed weapons-or swords as the original art suggests.) You can only have I believe one unit in your army. They also receive an extra attack. So they have the same stats as a normal chaos warrior except with one additional attack and a two handed weapon.

Now if that doesn't sound like a DPS class, I don't know what is. If you look at the DPS class of the dwarves they are very heavily armoured. (See the later screenshots of the hammerer).

Also the idea that a Chaos Warrior is underneath a Marauder in terms of damage output is rediculous. This progression has been posted before but I will do it again.

Marauder > Chaos Warrior > Chaos Champion/Sorceror > Chaos Lord

Look at the classes they are instituting in Chaos.

Chosen and Magus so far. Both two characters that are suited in their chaos armour meaning they have graduated from the start of being a Marauder. And I don't think that EA Mythic wants the players to be playing something that is at the bottom of the Chaos foodchain (or one above the bottom which would be a mindless spawn) I know I wouldnt play a Marauder if the option to play someone who wears Chaos Armour is available.

I think personally, that since the Chaos starting area is in Norsca, where the Marauders live, and that they have said the opening chaos area is very iconic, you are literally going to be someone who is swearing themself to Tzeentch straight away. So literally the opening quests see you being "inducted" to a chaos warrior.

Now I think that heavily armoured class is just going to be a chaos warrior with a shield. If people think that's too similar to a Chosen a Hammerer is very similar to an Iron Breaker in appearance, it's just the name that makes that seem like they are different.

So we have a:

Chosen > Heavy DPS
Chaos Warrior > Heavy Tank
Chaos Magus > Chaos Sorc

We are unsure what the third one is, but I'm hoping its:

Chaos Packmaster > Hybrid.

Now this is a similar post to what I wrote over at the War-RVR site, however I felt the need to post and explain how people are mistaking Chosen for Marked and also other things.

I could be wrong, I'm not a dev, but from what I have seen this is what I believe is shaping out to be.

EDIT: Additionally people won't be limited to weapons I assume, but this is just what they use in the tabletop, and how I am using that to base my assumptions of DPS or not. In the actual game it will be the abilities they assign that truely dictate what type of class they become. So lore defines type of class, and then abilities emphasize that and the player chooses the tools of his character.

Kraus

12-02-2006, 01:30 AM

I really wouldnt mind seeing something akin to a packmaster or a possessed unit, though i doubt possessed - WH focuses on it less then 40k.

Cranmer

12-02-2006, 02:07 AM

Now I think that heavily armoured class is just going to be a chaos warrior with a shield. If people think that's too similar to a Chosen a Hammerer is very similar to an Iron Breaker in appearance, it's just the name that makes that seem like they are different. Except Hammerer wears medium armor not the heavy one as Ironbreaker. Since Chosen got full plate armor already i'd rather expect something less armored for melee dps role.

Whightwolf

12-02-2006, 04:41 AM

I think Mark of Chaos might have the answer.

I think a maruder Berzerker would be fairly cool, but perhaps an Axe thrower as well?

Nerror

12-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Just a few misunderstandings of the original lore in here guys.

Pretty much a Chaos Marauder is your standard norse barbarian.

Just a little nitpick, the most common marauder types are the Kurgan or the Hung, not the Norse. :) To the Empire that difference may seem slight, because they are all barbarians in their eyes, but they are really different people from different lands. The Kurgan come from the vast plains further north and east of Norsca. Even the Kurgan aren't all one big nation, they consist of individual and often warring tribes that only have a similar culture to connect them (like the Norse). And there's also a bunch of other tribes near the Chaos wastes that aren't Norse. The Hung come from the other side of the World, so we might not seem them in WAR, but they are also nomadic and could easily be present.

As for the rest of your post, perhaps we'll see a packmaster type, but destruction side already have the squigs, and the order side doesn't really have anything like that yet, so I am doubtful. On the other hand I really have a hard time guessing exactly what we'll get, so who knows. :)

Kampfer

12-02-2006, 03:33 PM

Cause Chosen are a bit beyond your standard barbarian already, and it owuld be weird to put them behind a barbarian for damage :P

Right but a Black Orc is supposed to be the toughest and strongest of all orcs save the Warboss himself. Yet the Choppa Orc is the Greenskin DPS warrior.

I would opt for a Chosen to be the Tank over a Marauder. Comeon now a Marauder is a barbarian that idea of armor is a shield and leather loin cloth.

Also Chosen usually get whats called Chaos Armor vs that of Chaos warriors whom wear heavy plate and shield. Chaos armor is the best armor that you can get and is a gift from the Gods.

Aka in fluff and game play of Warhammer your Chosen Warriors are the Toughest and strongest save the Lords.

I don't see in anyway a Chaos Warrior can be a Tank... Thats like making Dwarven Hammers Tanks and Ironbreakers DPS.

Kraus

12-02-2006, 03:38 PM

Choppas are insane Orcs basically, I wouldnt put them as your standardized Orc warrior... And Black Orcs are the toughest of the Orcs in the game still, they hold their own in damage, wear the heaviest armor, and can take the biggest beating of all the Orc classes. Just because its a tank doesnt mean it doesnt do damage.

Kampfer

12-02-2006, 03:41 PM

Right but that doesn't matter Black Orcs in TT equal the hardest hitting unit in the Orc armies.

Chosen equals the samething.

A Chaos Warrior gets a 4+ armor save with a shield and a 2+ mounted.

A Chosen gets a 3+ armour save and a 1+ Mounted.

It would be wierd to see a warrior in Chaos armor not being the tank for this race.

Kraus

12-02-2006, 03:43 PM

But being tank doesnt exclude them from being able to lay out the DPS eaither. =p

Kampfer

12-02-2006, 03:45 PM

oh yeah i agree.

I wouldn't mind the Idea if the Chosen was the first Tank/DPS class in the game. As it is supposed to be the "I am as Armoured as an Ironbreaker and I hit twice as hard."...

Lord Semaj

12-02-2006, 03:59 PM

Another thing possible...

The Tank classes could have significant melee dps against single targets while the Marauder or Choppa classes have insane aoe melee dps. Hitting multiple targets at once sounds more like the kind of guy who cuts a path through his foes, while keeping the black orc still a powerful champion 1 on 1.

Kampfer

12-02-2006, 04:02 PM

All i know is i better be the size of a Space Marine in the end....

Lord Semaj

12-02-2006, 04:05 PM

All i know is i better be the size of a Space Marine in the end....
Or a Chaos Space Marine? :rolleyes:

Kampfer

12-02-2006, 04:19 PM

Hey.... that was uncalled for! :P

NoneSuch

12-02-2006, 04:29 PM

Alright This may not be correct to the lore exactly but it's good enough for me.

A half naked marauder with two axes jumping in and out of combat , making quick slices and cuts into the sides of enemies while dodging heavy blows is going to be able to get into more places and dodge more hits than a slow moving chosen in huge amounts of heavy armour.

We know everyones movment speed is going to be the same for balance , But that dosn't mean attack speed.

For all we know A "marauder" class could do fairly normal attack damage but have the ability to dodge more hits and land alot more blows onto his enemies.

So while on a single hit he'll be outdamaged by a chosen warrior , in the long run he'll be able to spam off far more attacks dealing alot more damage. Not forgetting he'll have an easier time dodging blows , disengaging from combat and attacking enemies blindsides.

His abilities could focus on absoloutly overcoming the enemy with an immense amount of hits and speed , confusing and anhilating heavly armoured foes in a flurry of fast and disorienting hits.

Remember people - We obviously CAN play the cannonfodder , Goblins are a race and in no way shape or form can they be better than orcs or equal in the lore but they are going to be in this game.

Kampfer

12-02-2006, 04:36 PM

As long as a Chosen can soak up insane amounts of damage and kick a Warrior-Priest in the face.. I don't care if a maruader has more Overall DPS.

Pendrako

12-03-2006, 07:54 AM

As others have suggested, there's more to Warhammer than just WFB. The designers of WAR are obviously drawing background material from a range of sources to come up with content for the game, so if you want to speculate about careers, try broadening your horizons.

I think the whole 'how can marauders be on the same level as chosen' question should be approached from the same angle as the way the greenskins have been designed. During the early stages of the games development, most people wondered how Goblins could possibly be included, since they're obviously cannon fodder in greenskin armies. The answer was that the goblin characters in WAR are not your average goblins - they're the ones with special abilities which allow them to hold their own in groups alongside Orcs and Black Orcs. With marauders, a similar approach could be taken - you can play marauders, but not the regular ones you see on a WFB battlefield. Any playable marauders in WAR will have abilities which increase their powers above usual.

I'm expecting to see the two other chaos careers be much more norse-y. Remember that each class should have an easily identifiable nature and specialization (so I don't expect to see any other kind of chaos warrior alongside the Chosen). One possible career would be a Possessed, who represents the mutability of Tzeentch, able to draw upon a range of temporary mutations to increase their melee DPS effectiveness. Check out Mordheim chaos cultist bands and WFB 4th edition chaos for an idea of how this could work. Another possibility would be a norse 'shaman' of Tchar, who would act as the chaos support class.

I'm not sure that a packmaster pet class is an option, since destruction already has squig herders and potentially Dark Elf beastmasters. The same could be said about a norse berserker career - it seems too close in concept to the Orc choppa, which was itself at one point called a berserker.

Kampfer

12-04-2006, 10:21 AM

They will probably just give us Warriors of Chaos. They just gave us the Chosen which is basically is your future leaders of Chaos. Now they can either give us Marauders or they can give us Chaos Warriors in thier Heavy plate and great weapons.

DeathsHorizon

12-05-2006, 01:10 AM

Um they might give us flayerkin, which would be like dps with ligth armor, maybe a ranged marauder class, axethrower. Maruaders out dpsing a chosen in close combat is unlikely. They are slower and much weaker. Flayerkin have about the same strength as chosen but dont have much armor and have less toughness. Can deal out the beating but cant take it.

quacktar

12-05-2006, 09:05 AM

http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/flayerkin/images/bald1-sm.jpg

I don't know how that would go over with the general public.

My ideas:

Unique class:

I think a Cult of the Possessed Magister would be a likey, cool addition. It'd be a bit like the suggestion of a possed chaos warrior, but he would do it to other people, like the runepriest. See him here:
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=303679&orignav=300816&ParentID=10004&GameNav=300808
It'd actually be really cool to play one. If not the magister, than maybe a possessed cultist that gains mutations instead of abilities or equipment- something really unique.

DPS: I really think a Maruader is likely. Maybe he could have a unique job skill where he could collect skins from his kills to slowly build up his armor, as fur armor is multi-layered and very heavy.

Promenius

12-05-2006, 12:40 PM

If you want my opinion, I think one of the classes should be a former chaos warrior, now a beast of chaos. When we saw the Chosen and Magus class in that interview, he also told us about the chaos guys who got turned into demons! Even though that demon was of Khorne, I wish a Tzeentch demon would be playable!

Man, it would be fun to be a mindless demon, rampaging around, roleplaying and all that...

"FOR TZEENTCH!!!" And then run mindlessly into the fray, slaughtering anyone who stands in your path!

..........

GIEF!!!

DeathsHorizon

12-05-2006, 02:20 PM

That would be cool and all to be a spawn, but I believe they have said that we wouldnt be able to be them.

And since when has having no hands ever stopped chaos.

Chaos Reigns :chaos:

zenarion

12-05-2006, 03:30 PM

Nerror

12-06-2006, 03:01 AM

In front of me, ive got the Mordheim rulebook. Lot of interestng classes here. I suggest a Darksoul as a main DPSer, or fighter.
A Darksoul is a person who was pocessed before, but had the demon leave his/her body. Their minds go crooked because of that, and they act somewhat like Warrior Priests: they fanatically smash enemies. They also wear masks that represent demons, because they cannot cope with the fact that the demon no longer lives in their body. So, adorned with demon artifacts, looking like a halloween costume, and dealing damage with no care for personal safety? Sounds like a DPS to me :cool:

If this wasn't a MMORPG I'd agree and say it might be a fun class, but there's really no way to roleplay a darksoul. Their minds are completely shattered and insane from the possesion, and they only have one thing in their head: the need to kill. That's it. No real personality, nothing. Like zombies, but instead of brains they seek kills.

Ralzar

12-06-2006, 03:39 AM

Yeah, Darksouls are cool, but wouldn't make good player characters.

Vash108

12-06-2006, 08:37 AM

Let me play as a Lord of Change for one class. Just me and me alone, problem solved :D

But I see marauders in there some where, and possibly a pet class, maybe for the hounds? What about a Knight who speciallizes in mounted combat?

chandley

12-06-2006, 09:39 AM

The one thing Chaos seems to really lack is ranged. I suspect that rather than just a dual wielding Maurauder, the Chaos range unit will be an axe or spear thrower. Theres precedent for the ranged characters to have both reasonable melee skill (Dwarf Engineers) or other unique powers (Squiq Herder), so I dont think its too far fetched.

And I can see an Axe thrower hanging out behind the line of Chaos armor wearers having quite a significant role to play.

My bet on the 4th, "unique" class is either an actual Daemon (yes yes, Horde of Chaos and all that, I can dream) or a Deamon summoner. Id be real disappointed in the designers if they didnt work Deamons into the Chaos side _somehow_. Dogs of War deamons is another possibility I suppose...

Chandley

quacktar

12-06-2006, 09:56 AM

Chaos isn't really supposed to have ranged...

I know mmorpg balance and all that, but look in the WFB army book- horrors and greater demons get ranged, and I think that's it. The army is ALL melee, with some magic.

Seldaren

12-06-2006, 10:21 AM

I know mmorpg balance and all that, but look in the WFB army book- horrors and greater demons get ranged, and I think that's it. The army is ALL melee, with some magic.

That's a WFB balance thing though, not exactly a hard and fast rule for Chaos in any form.
WFB Chaos lacks range because their melee is so strong.

In a game like WAR, where things have to be balanced differently Chaos will have ranged. We already see the Magus as an example of a ranged damage class.

In the Lore, Chaos does have the ability to use ranged attacks. There are bows, there are throwing axes.. etc.

Id be real disappointed in the designers if they didnt work Deamons into the Chaos side _somehow_.

Some folks seem to be against the idea of player controlled daemons in any form. That it diminishes the "rare and powerful" aspect of Deamons.
I'm inclined to agree with them, but I would still like to see some sort of very minor daemon as a temporary player "pet".

It is almost garunteed that we'll see NPC Deamons. They should be present in the more Chaos-influenced zones, like the Inevitable City and the Chaos Wastes.
So I don't think deamons will be a "rare" sight in the game. I actually wouldn't be suprised if one of the big defenders of the Inevitable City was a Lord of Change or something (kinda like Teclis defends an HE zone).

Seldaren

chandley

12-06-2006, 02:34 PM

I was looking at the Maurauder Horsemen in particular. They are, in the TT, allowed to have javelins or throwing axes. A mounted ranged fighter would be pretty neat in an MMO, especially given the hint that the Chosen may upgrade through the tiers to a Chaos Knight or other mounted combatant... Mounted Chosen, Maruauder Horsemen for range, your Magus on a flying disk... Choas would be pretty damn mobile, though collision detection is going to mitigate that a lot.

Both the player classes revealed so far would count as Hero or restricted choice (though dont get me started on what they view the distinction between a Chosen of Tzeentch and a Magus of Tzeentch really is, their both spell casters in the TT...). Given that, dont think your stretching any rarity arguments any more than you already have to introduce Horrors that advance into Flamers of Tzeentch as a playable class. And it sure as hell would be a unique class. Right up there with using a Squiq as a kind of living power armor... :)

Chandley

Kampfer

12-06-2006, 05:23 PM

Actaully outside of Sorcerors Chaos lacks range period. In all of the stories of chaos and what not they are described as a horde of footmen and calvary especially Khorne where their will not be any Sorcerors.

Its not until Chaos Dwarves enter the fray with thier Hellcannons that they get ranged warfare capabilities.

Hell, the Army of Change was a Horde of Calvary and footmen (Marauders and Chaos Warriors) supported by powerful Sorcerors. I have never read anything that states the Horde of Chaos use Bowman and every instance of a Chaos warrior throwing an Axe was him taking his War Axe and throwing it....

Besides it isn't a balance thing what is represented in the TT is actaully what the Hordes of Chaos are. If its a Northman invasion then its nothing but Calvary, Daemons, footman, and/or Sorcerors.

chandley

12-07-2006, 07:52 AM

Actaully outside of Sorcerors Chaos lacks range period. In all of the stories of chaos and what not they are described as a horde of footmen and calvary especially Khorne where their will not be any Sorcerors.

?? Im looking at page 60 of the Hordes of Chaos army book, under Maurauder Horsemen, option number 2: Any unit may be equiped with throwing axes (+4 points/model) or throwing spears (treat as javelins, +4 points/model).

I mean, overall your right. The big thing about Chaos is that they are pretty much melee and magic only. Thats the whole point. But if the Devs are looking for something to use as an excuse to add some range to the Chaos side for balance purposes, I think that its right there, page 60...

And if I where a betting man, thats the way Id bet. The _cool_ way they could go, though, would be to ignore ranged (other than magic in the Magus/Chosen) for Chaos, but make em all mounted (presumably, at higher tiers). I wouldnt care so much if I dont have range and everyone else does, if Im fighting on a demonic horse that can run the little shooty buggers down...

And, though they have said humans only, the balsy move is to let Horrors/Flamers be the Chaos range/unique choice...

Chandley

Finnblood

12-07-2006, 08:19 AM

I want Marauders into the game. We've got goblins although they are a lot punier than orcs. My Marauder class suggestions:

1) Flailer: specializes in flails and spears - long melee weapons. Kites and distracts targets making them easy prey for Chosens and Maguses. Lightly armoured.
2) Hound tamer: the Hordes use lots of chaos hounds whom are trained by the Marauders. Chaos Pet class. A long-ranged whip as a weapon, maybe?
3) Marauder tracker: Norse hunter with bows, thrown weapons and traps.
4) Were: a norse man with an uncanny ability to shift shape into a werewolf, a werebear or a wereboar. The forms could have limited uses+cooldowns so the Were should use some thinking when to use the form.
5) Shaman/similar: Buffs, healing, low DpS, shamanisic abilities (levitation, spirit control, etc)
6) Berserker: totally frenzied warrior that fights more ferocius when losing hp. Flails, dual or great weapons.

Kampfer

12-07-2006, 10:43 AM

?? Im looking at page 60 of the Hordes of Chaos army book, under Maurauder Horsemen, option number 2: Any unit may be equiped with throwing axes (+4 points/model) or throwing spears (treat as javelins, +4 points/model).

Chandley

Yeah but thats not really ranged weaponry. Its oh lets throw this before we charge into hand to hand. What i am getting to is its not dedicated range support like bowman and what not. I cannot rely on Throwing Axes and throwing spears to counter Hellblasters, Organ Guns, Repeater Cross Bows, Dwarven Thunderours, and what not.

In the end the Devs already stated that if there is Mounted combat then Dwarves will not get it. I see no reason Chaos should get range support classes other then a Sorceror if dwarves cannot do mounted combat. Though it would be interesting if a Magus can summon Tzeetchian Daemons.

spirit

12-07-2006, 11:51 AM

Yeah but thats not really ranged weaponry. Its oh lets throw this before we charge into hand to hand. What i am getting to is its not dedicated range support like bowman and what not. I cannot rely on Throwing Axes and throwing spears to counter Hellblasters, Organ Guns, Repeater Cross Bows, Dwarven Thunderours, and what not.

In the end the Devs already stated that if there is Mounted combat then Dwarves will not get it. I see no reason Chaos should get range support classes other then a Sorceror if dwarves cannot do mounted combat. Though it would be interesting if a Magus can summon Tzeetchian Daemons.

Nah, the throwing axes and throwing spears are for circling the enemy and harrassing them while the foot troops catch up. Cantabrian circle and all that (if you know your Medieval total war, you should know it)