Slayer Character?

[Caiden]

Is there even an option for a slayer character in the game? when i went to the websit there was only Ironbreakers, hammermers, engineers, and runepriests. if there isnt a playable slayer then that would suck serious ballocks!

[kushinagi]

Is there even an option for a slayer character in the game? when i went to the websit there was only Ironbreakers, hammermers, engineers, and runepriests. if there isnt a playable slayer then that would suck serious ballocks!

An advanced class is in the air, but so far playing as a slayer isn't looking likely.

[Oak]

Becoming a slayer in Dwarven society isn't seen as honourable or good, quite the opposite.

If playable Slayers do get implemented I'd like to see them as a rarity.

[Kraus]

Its supposibily playable but we dont know how.

[Snorri]

Slayer is not one of the four starting classes :( :(
And it is unlikely that Mythic will create "elite" classes for 24 different classes... that would just be too many to balance.

But we have heard rumours dropped here and there and MBJ was recorded saying that Slayers would be playable. (Not in his video blogs, in an interview.)
We just don't know how :-\ hopefully Mythic wont forget about the idea.

I remember something about a quest in which you had to kill a troll and bungee jump from the Karak Kadrin bridge using troll intestines to become a slayer.

As it is though, we can only speculate.

After seeing the awsome slayer screenshots I would be heratbroken if I couldn't be one!

But I agree, if they are in they should be a rarity... for a dwarf it isnt good to be a slayer.

[Radika1]

A slayer is the coolest dwarf career..

But it is missing :confused:

[Grimr]

Slayer is not one of the four starting classes :( :(
And it is unlikely that Mythic will create "elite" classes for 24 different classes... that would just be too many to balance.

But we have heard rumours dropped here and there and MBJ was recorded saying that Slayers would be playable. (Not in his video blogs, in an interview.)
We just don't know how :-\ hopefully Mythic wont forget about the idea.

I remember something about a quest in which you had to kill a troll and bungee jump from the Karak Kadrin bridge using troll intestines to become a slayer.

As it is though, we can only speculate.

After seeing the awsome slayer screenshots I would be heratbroken if I couldn't be one!

But I agree, if they are in they should be a rarity... for a dwarf it isnt good to be a slayer.


I noted in the otehr topic that people seem to think hammerer is the way to slayer?

Seems to be any dwqarf should be able to become a slayer..

[Bolg]

I noted in the otehr topic that people seem to think hammerer is the way to slayer?

Seems to be any dwqarf should be able to become a slayer..

OOOHHHH dont I just WISH!!!!


*crosses fingers*

:D

[Stuntie]

Main problem with Slayers as a standard player class is that they would be everywhere, just like Jedi in SWG.

Also how many would play them as a Slayer - i.e. real death seeking, rather than as just a cool looking fighter who runs from fights he can not win?

How would grouping work with a death wish slayer taking on anything he sees? Wipe, wipe, boot?


Slayers, if allowed should be a hard career to get, and one that does it's best to enforce a slayer like behaviour on the player - e.g. harsh penalties for fleeing a fight, severe restrictions on armour use etc. And link progresion to slayer points earn't by fighting tougher foes than you or lost fighting easy trash mobs.
Make it too easy and every other beardling will be a slayer.

[Snorri]

Slayers, if allowed should be a hard career to get, and one that does it's best to enforce a slayer like behaviour on the player - e.g. harsh penalties for fleeing a fight, severe restrictions on armour use etc. And link progresion to slayer points earn't by fighting tougher foes than you or lost fighting easy trash mobs.
Make it too easy and every other beardling will be a slayer.


QFT
Compeltly agree.
If your gonna be a slayer, fight like a slayer.
To scared? Mythic will MAKE you fight like a slayer! ;) :cool:

[Ruinx]

What people like Stuntie forget is that is a game not a simulation, and, shockingly to Stuntie no doubt, not a role-playing exercise. It is an RvR game based on the Warhammer universe, but inventing a huge amount of "content" (female versions of most non-greenskin classes for example).

There is no need for Slayers to be rare.

Let me repeat that a few times:

There is no need for Slayers to be rare.

There is no need for Slayers to be rare.

There is no need for Slayers to be rare.

There is no need for Slayers to be rare.

There is no need for Slayers to be rare.

None, none, none whatsoever.

Slayers are vastly more common, in the Warhammer universe than Empire Bright Wizards, for example. They probably outnumber then 10:1. Yet Bright Wizards are a standard class. Slayers are more common the various Dwarven Rune-wavers. Yet Runepriests are a standard class. And so on.

Slayers, for all the low-grade "literature" you may have read regarding them are common enough to be a "Special Unit", just like the Hammerers and Ironbreakers, nothing obscure or bizarre. They are most explicitly not the equivalent of Jedi. That's a ludicrous misapprehension. Dishonoring yourself as a Dwarf is apparently a very common thing, and despite their "deathwish", plenty of them seem to live long enough to become "Slayer Lords".

I see no justification, based on WHFB or any genuinely canon WHFB material to suggest that Slayers are like Jedi in terms of rarity (which is to say 1 in a million or even a billion). They've never been rare, and there's no logical justification to making them rare by force.

All the proposed methods seem to focus on punishing players for doing something they enjoy, which is to say, playing characters they like. That's insanity. It really is. Insanity. Trying to make people suffer for playing your game is a really great way to lose customers and generally make the game into a negative, vindictive environment, in which only people with those character traits will flourish.

Slayers should be an armour-less high DPS melee class. No-one denies this. There's no possibility of them "choosing to wear inappropriate armour", so there is no need for "punishments" for it, that's retardo. It's a game. They can only wear the armour you flag them as being able to wear.

As I have explained before, there is ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBLE WAY to determine whether a player has "fled" or "run away" from an enemy with a computer when you are fighting other enemy players. It's completely impossible. If you disagree, explain how you think it could be done and I'll detail how very wrong you are (or be amazed by your intellect and bow to you). So asking for punishments for that is like asking for rewards for "bravery". A computer cannot determine if you were really being brave or just hanging out near a fight out of sight. It's not going to happen.

PS - If you have a problem with "every other beardling" being a Slayer, you need to explain to me why you don't have a problem with every other beardling being a Runepriest or an Ironbreaker or a Hammerer.

[Snorri]

Slayers are vastly more common, in the Warhammer universe than Empire Bright Wizards, for example. They probably outnumber then 10:1. Yet Bright Wizards are a standard class. Slayers are more common the various Dwarven Rune-wavers. Yet Runepriests are a standard class. And so on.
I am not up-to-date with my knowledge concerning the empires Bright wizards, so thanks for pointing that out, there is hope! :p

Slayers, for all the low-grade "literature" you may have read regarding them are common enough to be a "Special Unit", just like the Hammerers and Ironbreakers, nothing obscure or bizarre. They are most explicitly not the equivalent of Jedi. That's a ludicrous misapprehension. Dishonouring yourself as a Dwarf is apparently a very common thing, and despite their "death wish", plenty of them seem to live long enough to become "Slayer Lords".
Aye there are enough of them to make special units. And I do not endorse the comparisons to "Jedi" for they are not THAT rare, although they are "fabled fighters" some of which are capable of bringing down unimaginable foes. But then again, these feats are not restricted to slayers - it is just that they have more reason to attempt such acts. And more than enough practice... the career of a slayer tends to root out those who are not tough enough to stand against the immense and mighty... usually in a very painful fashion. ;)

I see no justification, based on WHFB or any genuinely canon WHFB material to suggest that Slayers are like Jedi in terms of rarity (which is to say 1 in a million or even a billion). They've never been rare, and there's no logical justification to making them rare by force.
Aye in terms of rarity you are right, they are not AS rare as Jedi... I cant believe I am talking about Jedi :( Am I the only one who doesn't like star wars?!

All the proposed methods seem to focus on punishing players for doing something they enjoy, which is to say, playing characters they like. That's insanity. It really is. Insanity. Trying to make people suffer for playing your game is a really great way to lose customers and generally make the game into a negative, vindictive environment, in which only people with those character traits will flourish.
You have a valid point here... another "bend the lore a little for the sake of fun and enjoyment.


As I have explained before, there is ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBLE WAY to determine whether a player has "fled" or "run away" from an enemy with a computer when you are fighting other enemy players. It's completely impossible. If you disagree, explain how you think it could be done and I'll detail how very wrong you are (or be amazed by your intellect and bow to you). So asking for punishments for that is like asking for rewards for "bravery". A computer cannot determine if you were really being brave or just hanging out near a fight out of sight. It's not going to happen.
Yea I have often said this too.
Although, in Horizons *Clash drums* you remained "locked" in combat until you pressed the flee button, or until you killed your enemy/enemies. Whilst in combat you could not run as fast as you could out of combat... so if you wanted to peg it, you had to click the flee button to exit your combat state and then turn tail and run like a pansy to the guards :cool: . If this button was selected and no monster was targeted the system would merely tell you "No Hostile Target."
It would be easy for the system to record how many times you "flee combat" with a similar button for slayers in WaR. It didn’t work too badly in Horizons... but I imagine it would swiftly become a pain in the arse… but then again why should it? You are not meant to be running anyway… who knows if it could work or not.

PS - If you have a problem with "every other beardling" being a Slayer, you need to explain to me why you don't have a problem with every other beardling being a Runepriest or an Ironbreaker or a Hammerer.
Ok here I go, I'm all ready to be shot down by arguments... I quake in my boots when arguing against Runix :p

The reason is, is that although Slayers are not "as rare as jedis." And they are not drastically uncommon - they are not the bulk of the dwarfen army. The are possibly one of the best and most fantastic classes of the dwarfs, but they are not your typical streotypes of dwarfen society, they are outcasts.
Ironbreakers, Hammerers, Runepriests and Engineers all still have their honour. They are all part of the dwarfen society. And they are all part of a whole.
If slayers outnumbered all the other dwarf classes put together - then they would take over the classic and more prominent figures of the dwarf army. Whilst slayers are dwarfs and awesome characters, and are frequent enough to form bands... the "Ironbreaker" type dwarfs and engineering guilds are more iconic of the dwarf society as a whole.

We would be completely changing the dwarfs iconography if we were to make slayers far more common than the other four classes.

But as you say, it is a question of bending lore slightly, to ensure maximum enjoyment out of a game.

I love slayers so my feelings are mixed... but I would feel a bit odd if the majority of dwarf players were all slayers, and there were very little "typical" dwarf classes running around as the driving force of the army.


Ok shoot me down ;)

[Baron Khaine]

*Throws self in front of Snorri* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Drace]

While yes there are tons of slayers, many of them are off in mountain tops, forests etc, not in armies duking it out with other armies, even though some due. So in a way they are rare, but like earlier mentioned, so are Iron Breakers, Hammers, Runesmiths and Engineers. But aswell, those four classes are easier to roleplay than a Slayer, and as huge fan of the Dwarf lore and fluff, I would be completely disgusted to be fighting with a slayer only to have them run when they are losing, no slayer would do that, I doubt even a slayer who became a slayer because they werew a coward would. But this is a game, and people don't like to lose, so they will run (unless they are RPers *Crosses fingers, hoping all people who want to be slayers are*). That seems to be the biggest issue, the RP of it, even someone from Mythic mentioned it (Can't remember who), saying how they wouldnt make a good PC, since they're seeking death and would never run.

[Kraus]

Grimr - Its a tyhought people are thinking, its not a confirmed thing in any sense.

Ruinx - Watch the tone :p

[Zulgaines]

The most obnoxious voice is always heard the loudest.

<runs away without explaining himself never to return>

[Snorri]

While yes there are tons of slayers, many of them are off in mountain tops, forests etc, not in armies duking it out with other armies, even though some due. So in a way they are rare, but like earlier mentioned, so are Iron Breakers, Hammers, Runesmiths and Engineers. But aswell, those four classes are easier to roleplay than a Slayer, and as huge fan of the Dwarf lore and fluff, I would be completely disgusted to be fighting with a slayer only to have them run when they are losing, no slayer would do that, I doubt even a slayer who became a slayer because they werew a coward would. But this is a game, and people don't like to lose, so they will run (unless they are RPers *Crosses fingers, hoping all people who want to be slayers are*). That seems to be the biggest issue, the RP of it, even someone from Mythic mentioned it (Can't remember who), saying how they wouldnt make a good PC, since they're seeking death and would never run.


Well... here's the theory...
Slayers on NonRP servers wont HAVE to RP. Them acting out of character is not an issue on a server where people do not roleplay. It would be odd to hera being screaming out "lol" and "rofl" and speaking eastenders the night before and then saying "slayers dont run nubcake!!"

On a RP server most slayers will be RPers ;) As that is where people who like to RP actually go!

So they will roleplay where it matters, and it is not an issue on other servers.

Again, that is just a theory :p I'm sure a few people will get scared on the RP servers and try and run every now and then! :p

Or we could just use that flee button ;)

[VodinHeavyHammer]

I would believe it to be a quest line or even a quest that can only be failed. At the end of the quest you can choose to become a slayer or not. And if so I would rp one on a rp server and would be dead quite often.

[Boneburner]

Becoming a slayer would be good, but i'm sure becoming one would have it's down sides.

[Oak]

Becoming a slayer would be good, but i'm sure becoming one would have it's down sides.

Like being an outcast from the Dwarvern community and losing one of the most important things that a Dwarf has? Family and honour? Yeah. That's never a good thing.

[Ralzar]

Like being an outcast from the Dwarvern community and losing one of the most important things that a Dwarf has? Family and honour? Yeah. That's never a good thing.

I was think more along the lines of: having to run around on a battlefield in your undies :D

[Ruinx]

Snorri - Not every Slayer is a Daemonslayer or a Dragonslayer. Most of them haven't slain more than a Troll, at most, I'd suggest, certainly not by their lonesome, so I think it's worthwhile to avoid overhyping them. There are some who have killed some fabled and amazingly powerful creatures, but the bulk of them are just dishonored Dwarfs who want to find a way to be part of Dwarf society again.

As for the "flee" button, I believe EQ2 did something similar for a while, before they realized it made for terrible gameplay and removed it. If it's so bad that even EQ2 took it out, you've got to wonder about it, I'd suggest. Anyway, in an RvR game that's just not going to work. There's no way, fighting people, that it's reasonable for you to have to click a special option every time you want to move at full speed. I remember Horizons had particularly awful and idiotic combat which involved you being "locked" as you say, in combat, and I'm certain no RvR game would do anything so nuts.

Yes, if they outnumbered all the other Dwarfs, it would be a little silly, but what makes you think that would happen?

Do you REALLY think the other Dwarf classes are that WILDLY unappealling?

Do you really think everyone who plays a Dwarf is begging to play a low-armour, high-DPS melee?

I suspect the only class we'd see less of as a result of the Slayers would be Hammerers, myself.

If not, why worry?

As for them not being a stereotype of Warhammer Dwarfs, your suggestion there leaves me speechless... It's simply not true. They're utterly iconic of Warhammer Dwarfs in a way that no other Dwarf class is. Utterly. I don't know how you could even type that without giggling! They are the classic "Warhammer" Dwarf. Maybe to lore fanatics they're something more, but to the majority of WHFB and WHFRP players, Slayer = Dwarf more than "Ironbreaker" or other obscure ideas.

We wouldn't be "changing the iconography" of the Dwarfs to make Slayers big, indeed, it's quite the contrary. Mythic are changing the "iconography" of the Dwarfs by sidelining Slayers. Virtually every Warhammer representation of Dwarfs has Slayers "front and center". To not have them as a PC class is a big deal, and is much of a change than having them as the "standard" class would be.

Drace - That's not true at all, if WHFB is to be believed. If most of them weren't with armies, they'd not be a normal "Special Unit" in the Dwarven army, they'd be something a lot more restricted. There are enough Slayers that any Dwarven army that wants them can have them in big old units.

[Drace]

Drace - That's not true at all, if WHFB is to be believed. If most of them weren't with armies, they'd not be a normal "Special Unit" in the Dwarven army, they'd be something a lot more restricted. There are enough Slayers that any Dwarven army that wants them can have them in big old units.

True, but you just cant go by what TT armies are allowed to do. If WHFB is to be totally beleived, there are millions of peguses knights in "Flying circus" armies of bretonnia all over the place, and thousands of steam tanks, swordsmen and knights in the empire, while no halberdmen. There would only be Clan Skyre, running around with SAD armies loaded up on Jezzials and ratling guns to the brim. TT isn't lore, its a game, just like this will be a game and have to go in a way to be balanced. So yes, in the TT you can field them as your specials, (but they're only 0-1 Rarer than Ironbreakers, but not Hammerersin 6th, but just as rare as Hammerers and Iron breakers in 7th), or as a whole army if using the slayer army, but that is to represent a group of them either coming down from their keep, or them banding together. "Younger slayers often band together, sometimes under the tutelege of an old master" Dwarf 5ed AB pg 78, Dwarf 7ed pg 33. Plus, it wouldnt work to have a few single slayers walking around in a battlefield, they would get slaughtered, sothey had to put them into units.

As well, many do roam on their own. "Leaving their homeas far behind as possible, they wander the wilderness brooding on the misery of their existence."Dwarf 5ed AB pg 78, Dwarf 7ed pg 33. "A scattered group of individuals wandering amongst the mountains" Storm of Choas, pg 62. It wasnt until the establishment of the temple to Grimnir, the patron of slayers, in Karak Kadrin that slayers were grouping together.

Aswell, about Slayers being Iconic, well yes they are ONE of the biggest iconic parts of the Dwarf culture in WH, right up there with Runesmiths, Engineers, Hammerers (They are the kings bodyguards, and are probably the most honour bound people in the dwarf society), Gyrocopters, Runes, Beer, and grudges

[Snorri]

I would argue, but if I do I will be arguing against putting slayers in the game, and I want them in. ;) :cool:

Get those cannons adjusted and ponted at Mythic H.Q... it is time to make our demands!
Ah I hope we get more info on this soon... Snorri wants his own little slayer.

[Cranmer]

With classes like Warrior Priest, Bright Wizard and (possibly) Witch Hunter one may wonder why not have Slayers as a base class? They fit the melee DPS role perfectly. In terms of rarity (Ruinx pls don't jump on me ok? :p) they're more common than the empire careers mentioned above. Hell, i think there might be even more of them than Hammerers who are only king's bodyguard after all! Well, i don't know maybe such a class wouldn't be as much "playable" as one may think. I mean look a the items for example - trousers, boots, axe, some rings & stuff and it's pretty much it. :? Of course we got also lore constraints etc. For the same reasons i think some races may not become playable, like lizzies (not too many items again, they generally don't leave their jungle) or wood elves (i can imagine wood elf going out of his beloved forest to fight for some greater cause, but i can't imagine a dwarf entering Athel Loren and getting out with his life). Making them NPCs ain't so much trouble though...

[Brother Volker]

Like being an outcast from the Dwarvern community and losing one of the most important things that a Dwarf has? Family and honour? Yeah. That's never a good thing.

Slayer, as a player class, just doesn't fit. Despite their cool looks and nasty reps, they are dishonored dwarves, outcasts, seeking death in combat. Player characters generally try to avoid death in combat - thus the contradiction. Who knows, though, the crafty folks at Mythic just might find a way to fit them in at somepoint... we'll have to wait and see.

[Smachaz]

Yeah, i forgotwhatyournameis said, not all dwarfs will be slayers anyway, i mean i'm planing on playing an Ironbreaker and i dont think that even if i could turn into a Slayer i would (unless you can join Long Drong).

[Zakat]

*sigh* Time for me to give my two cents.

Do I want slayers in? Oh hell yes. But it's tricky, as some people have posted.

I want slayers in, but I want them to be hard to get, and have disadvantages that will make a majority of players discouraged from wanting to be them. I don't want slayers to be some kind of uber class, just something different.

A couple things that I'd like to comment on that have been said.

Slayers being outcasts-
Yes, they're outcasts, and I honestly wouldn't mind Slayers not being allowed to party with any other job except other slayers. I wouldn't mind if NPC in Karaz-a-karak wouldn't speak with slayers (why is it that Karak Kadrin is being constructed like a player city? I haven't seen an orc equivalent of Karak Kadrin [if there is please let me know])

Someone mentioned they wouldn't fit because they're outcasts. That's kind of the point, though. I want to play a slayer because of that.


Slayers and death-
Yes, slayers want to die...but in this game, the player characters never really "die", more like get knocked unconcious. This can easily be roleplayed out. "That damn Orc couldn't give me the honor of killing me, only knocked me out...Bah!"


And Ruinx, you make some strong arguements, but your comment about "most" slayers haven't killed anything more than trolls, and not by themselves, is quite far-fetched if you ask me. It's clearly stated in many places that the way of the Slayer almost instantly weeds out the weak. So if you meet a slayer, you can bet your he's one tough sucker capable of taking down ferocious beasts. [Quoting GW here: "This process of natural selection weeds out all those who do not have exceptional abilities, so you can be fairly sure that any Slayer you meet is exceptionally tough, violent, and psychopathically dangerous."]

Slayers don't want to find a way back into society at all, they willingly exile themselves, and can only be forgiven in a glorious death.



So yea, that's pretty much my two cents. I think slayers should be in, as some kind of branch-off from tier 4, probably activated by a quest. I also think that it should either be it's own seperate class with it's own skills, or it should just add on to the previous skills you have from your previous Dwarf careers. This would also allow any dwarf class to become a slayer, and thus and All slayer party could still function similar to a normal party.

[Snorri]

*sigh* Time for me to give my two cents.

Do I want slayers in? Oh hell yes. But it's tricky, as some people have posted.

I want slayers in, but I want them to be hard to get, and have disadvantages that will make a majority of players discouraged from wanting to be them. I don't want slayers to be some kind of uber class, just something different.

A couple things that I'd like to comment on that have been said.

Slayers being outcasts-
Yes, they're outcasts, and I honestly wouldn't mind Slayers not being allowed to party with any other job except other slayers. I wouldn't mind if NPC in Karaz-a-karak wouldn't speak with slayers (why is it that Karak Kadrin is being constructed like a player city? I haven't seen an orc equivalent of Karak Kadrin [if there is please let me know])

Someone mentioned they wouldn't fit because they're outcasts. That's kind of the point, though. I want to play a slayer because of that.


Slayers and death-
Yes, slayers want to die...but in this game, the player characters never really "die", more like get knocked unconcious. This can easily be roleplayed out. "That damn Orc couldn't give me the honor of killing me, only knocked me out...Bah!"


And Ruinx, you make some strong arguements, but your comment about "most" slayers haven't killed anything more than trolls, and not by themselves, is quite far-fetched if you ask me. It's clearly stated in many places that the way of the Slayer almost instantly weeds out the weak. So if you meet a slayer, you can bet your he's one tough sucker capable of taking down ferocious beasts. [Quoting GW here: "This process of natural selection weeds out all those who do not have exceptional abilities, so you can be fairly sure that any Slayer you meet is exceptionally tough, violent, and psychopathically dangerous."]

Slayers don't want to find a way back into society at all, they willingly exile themselves, and can only be forgiven in a glorious death.



So yea, that's pretty much my two cents. I think slayers should be in, as some kind of branch-off from tier 4, probably activated by a quest. I also think that it should either be it's own seperate class with it's own skills, or it should just add on to the previous skills you have from your previous Dwarf careers. This would also allow any dwarf class to become a slayer, and thus and All slayer party could still function similar to a normal party.

This dwarf speaks well.

[IronToe]

just give slayer characters a reason to go and die all the time.....maybe a debuff that stacks if they are alive to long

[Snorri]

I like the idea of a debuff if they are alive for too long ;)

But I would prefer it if the style of Slayer combat encouraged players to keep on fighting without any regard to HP or odds.

For example, like the Ironbreaker has grudge points and the Hammerer has momentum - maybe the Slayer could do more damage depending on how low his health is.
This would encourage slayer players to get beaten up continuously, and fight on the brink of death until something finally manages to topple them.

I still want to the slayer class to be a permanent effect, not something you transform into when you fail a quest and turn back to normal once you die, or a "click a button" system which lasts until you die... it should be its own stand-alone career and not something you should be able to turn back on.

[Doom]

like rage? the more you hit and get hit the more "rage" you have to use your abilitys?

[Snorri]

Well not really, not like Wows rage.

I simply mean that the closer to death you are, the more damage you do.
If you were on 1% HP your DPS would be maxed, if you were on 100% it would be at its lowest.
The aim would be to find a suitable balance which allows you to stay alive as well as dish out damage.
But player will want to keep fighting to keep their health low and max out their DPS - which would encourage Slayer characters to seek doom whilst still fighting to the bets of their ability like they should.

Alternativly they could always use a "rage" or "fury" bar instead which increased as they got hit, like warriors rage from WoW...
I'd prefer to see something new though. ;)

[Radika1]

But havent the classes allready been decided? I think that a dwarven racial ability is the only way you are ever going to see slayers..

[mouldylock]

someone said recently that you'll be able to become a slayer through talent spec, can't remeber who :S

[Snorri]

But havent the classes allready been decided? I think that a dwarven racial ability is the only way you are ever going to see slayers..

Or as a class conversion quest. <.<

[Hyrus]

With the classes already layed out, i'd say the chances of playing a slayer is about 0%.

I'm sure you'll see them in the game. I'm sure there may be tactics or abilities that refer to them. I really don't think that they're going to make the game's only subclass for only a particular class of a particular race...and if they were going to do that for all races, thats even more classes they'd have to design for consistancy and fairness.

I realize it's a 'load, but you could always play a hammerer, take off your armor and run around refusing to group with anyone. Logically, it makes quite a bit of sense that the dwarf army not consist of a giant amount of dwarf slayer characters.

[Grrblt]

With the classes already layed out, i'd say the chances of playing a slayer is about 0%.
As there are developer interviews around stating that Slayers will be playable, I'd say you're wrong.

[Snorri]

As there are developer interviews around stating that Slayers will be playable, I'd say you're wrong.

He's right y'know. There are interviews stating that Slayers are in and playable.
Just because they are not a core class, it doesn’t mean that we wont be able to reach them at a later level within the game.

My bet is still on a total class conversion quest.

I wonder if other races will also receive a similar opportunity... or whether it will simply be something to attract a few more players to the dwarfs.

[Hyrus]

Developers are known to brag about the coolness of something they're going to put into the game, to later sort of hope everyone forgot about it because they decided against doing it or that it couldn't work.

My bet is still on a total class conversion quest.

If you level up a hammerer and decide to do the "Become a slayer" quest, then your hammerer ceases to exist and you have a new class. Say that you decide you don't like the new class. So, what, you get to level up a brand new hammerer? That's hardly fair to spend time building a character, to accept a one-way class quest and get something totally different. To have a "Oh well, you're forgiven" quest seems just as impractical.

[Grrblt]

Developers are known to brag about the coolness of something they're going to put into the game, to later sort of hope everyone forgot about it because they decided against doing it or that it couldn't work.

The fact of the matter is that they initially told us Slayers wouldn't be in, but shortly afterwards changed that and said that Slayers would definitely be playable.

[Balthemor]

If people decide they dont want to be a slayer after they do a big time consuming quest to become a slayer then bad luck. Becoming a slayer means you have to be committed their will be loads of info on them so there's no excuse to want to change back and if your uncertain and you still become a slayer and dont like it well bad freaking luck

[Snorri]

Developers are known to brag about the coolness of something they're going to put into the game, to later sort of hope everyone forgot about it because they decided against doing it or that it couldn't work.



If you level up a hammerer and decide to do the "Become a slayer" quest, then your hammerer ceases to exist and you have a new class. Say that you decide you don't like the new class. So, what, you get to level up a brand new hammerer? That's hardly fair to spend time building a character, to accept a one-way class quest and get something totally different. To have a "Oh well, you're forgiven" quest seems just as impractical.

Heh, once you go slayer, you never turn back :p

And I wish for a complete class conversion quest because it will allow Ironbreakers, Engineers, and Runepriests to take the oath as well.

[Balthemor]

Heh, once you go slayer, you never turn back :p

And I wish for a complete class conversion quest because it will allow Ironbreakers, Engineers, and Runepriests to take the oath as well.

Yeah but would they look universally the same? i cant see an engineer swapping from handgun to axe(s) and be as good with it as he was with handgun

[Drace]

Yeah but would they look universally the same? i cant see an engineer swapping from handgun to axe(s) and be as good with it as he was with handgun

Just because they became a slayer doesnt mean that an ex-engineer would give up their handgun. Look at Long Drong's Pirates, they use pistols in excess. Or at Malakai Makaisson, who runs a war machine while still being a slayer. All being a slayer means is that they seek an honourable death to atone for their sins to their family and clan. There's no Slayer club rule saying they must wield an axe, and if they don't they're kicked out or anything. Runesmithing may be a different thing though, but I would doubt it.

[Snorri]

Would like to point out that Slayers with ranged weapons are a minority of the minorities; most slayers want to be in the face of death, up close and toe-to-toe, really getting to grips with their doom… firing missiles into a daemon doesn’t feel as grand as racing towards it and ripping its limbs off before being slain yourself.

But yes you are quite right; they are not restricted to certain weapons lore-wise.

I believe it will be easier to balance however if they were just given their own class... Which includes a focused weapon type, unique combat abilities, and their own play style; (Like Hammerers have momentum, Ironbreakers have grudges.)

I don’t want slayers to just be a fancy looking engineer... or a simple costume out onto one of the other classes.
I want them to be their own thang ;)

Although Ironbreakers may be able to wield 2-handed axes, we haven’t actually got an axe-focussed DPS class.... which is where I hope the slayers will come in.

[Guilliam]

Consider this-

You are the proverbial leet dwarf now, piles of skulls adorn your metre thick armour, your armour being now harder than diamond and twice as shiny. Orks come in droves to throw themselves on the mighty spikes adorning your great helm, the Axe you wield has so many runes engraved onto it it is beginning to bend, and with a glance you can send the mightyest elf mage into drooling fits of madness. Because you are awesome.

And yet, you are bored. You levelled your gravelly voiced warrior till your eyes bled and you forced the consctruction company levelling your house because you forgot to pay the morgage to actually build around you and your PC. Now what? You can't get any thicker armour and your axe is powerful enough on screen that it actualy illuminates distant objects.

But wait!

Whats this? You take a quest, you have to defend one of the kings relatives through part of the badlands. He has asked you to do this (Because you are awesome) and like a dutiful dwarf, you swear on oath on your life to defend him no matter what.
You set out on this new mission, and encounter nothing trying to attack your oathbound charge aside from a few fields of squigs and the small part of a warband. Pah, you say, just another dull mission.
But then trolls! They keep on coming! Endless droves of trolls! As far as the eye can see! A never ending stream of grey skinned football hooligans whos only wish is to see you and your charge as a thin coating on the rock below. They carry off your defended prince-ling and make a tasty broth from his dwarf flesh.
*Gasp*
Your oath is broken! You now only have one choice but to strip naked and charge at the nearest enemy. You are a slayer, who's only purpose is now fighting the biggest enemy you can find with no armour. Coo you say, this just got a bit harder.

Of course you could actually go looking for the princeling and find that the trolls never ate him, they just starved him for a bit and made him work. Whoops, back to the king, sorry about the mix up, can I put my clothes on now.

[Snorri]

Consider this-

You are the proverbial leet dwarf now, piles of skulls adorn your metre thick armour, your armour being now harder than diamond and twice as shiny. Orks come in droves to throw themselves on the mighty spikes adorning your great helm, the Axe you wield has so many runes engraved onto it it is beginning to bend, and with a glance you can send the mightyest elf mage into drooling fits of madness. Because you are awesome.

And yet, you are bored. You levelled your gravelly voiced warrior till your eyes bled and you forced the consctruction company levelling your house because you forgot to pay the morgage to actually build around you and your PC. Now what? You can't get any thicker armour and your axe is powerful enough on screen that it actualy illuminates distant objects.
But wait!

Whats this? You take a quest, you have to defend one of the kings relatives through part of the badlands. He has asked you to do this (Because you are awesome) and like a dutiful dwarf, you swear on oath on your life to defend him no matter what.
You set out on this new mission, and encounter nothing trying to attack your oathbound charge aside from a few fields of squigs and the small part of a warband. Pah, you say, just another dull mission.
But then trolls! They keep on coming! Endless droves of trolls! As far as the eye can see! A never ending stream of grey skinned football hooligans whos only wish is to see you and your charge as a thin coating on the rock below. They carry off your defended prince-ling and make a tasty broth from his dwarf flesh.
*Gasp*
Your oath is broken! You now only have one choice but to strip naked and charge at the nearest enemy. You are a slayer, who's only purpose is now fighting the biggest enemy you can find with no armour. Coo you say, this just got a bit harder.

Of course you could actually go looking for the princeling and find that the trolls never ate him, they just starved him for a bit and made him work. Whoops, back to the king, sorry about the mix up, can I put my clothes on now.

Best description ever ;)

[Hyrus]

Of course you could actually go looking for the princeling and find that the trolls never ate him, they just starved him for a bit and made him work. Whoops, back to the king, sorry about the mix up, can I put my clothes on now.

Well I don't like it and think it's a bad idea. Counterpoint that. :-P

[Snorri]

Well I don't like it and think it's a bad idea. Counterpoint that. :-P

*Shoots Hyrus in the head with a handgun*

Point Countered ;)

[Drace]

*Points out that a Slayer's Sins can only be forgiven if he dies in battle*

Point countered

[Balthemor]

*Points out that a Slayer's Sins can only be forgiven if he dies in battle*

Point countered

*Pokes drace in eye*

Counter that

[Smachaz]

*Points that there is a Slayer city where slayers can go if not the Dwarfen city*

[DwarfRunepriest]

Ok people I think that we have gotten pretty much the coolest thing right here with all the armies and classes. Why can't we be happy with what we got? I know I sure as Draggi don't want every other beard dyed orange and I also know that I dont want to see to many naked Dwarfs. Thats just me don't know bout ya'll.

[Snorri]

Ok people I think that we have gotten pretty much the coolest thing right here with all the armies and classes. Why can't we be happy with what we got? I know I sure as Draggi don't want every other beard dyed orange and I also know that I don’t want to see to many naked Dwarfs. That’s just me don't know bout ya'll.

Don’t get me wrong, I love all the dwarf classes so far. Mythic have done a grand job with them.
But Slayers are an amazing dwarf career, and certainly my favourite :p I'd be very upset if they were not in! They have tons of back story behind them as well as some kick attitude… they are as iconic as hell for the dwarf society which regards honour so highly.

[Balthemor]

Ok people I think that we have gotten pretty much the coolest thing right here with all the armies and classes. Why can't we be happy with what we got? I know I sure as Draggi don't want every other beard dyed orange and I also know that I dont want to see to many naked Dwarfs. Thats just me don't know bout ya'll.

And sonny what's wrong with wearing nah armor or clothing? A slayers blood is destined to flow from him in a river why stain a good shirt when you don't need to?

Only problem i have with slayers is what they're actually going to do damage wise because obviously they wont be able to take as much punishment as an ironbreaker...

[Snorri]

They will either put in some of the Slayers fabled toughness and endurance for pain.
Or they will really boost the damage and make them glass cannons.

What they really want is a balance between the two, but also remembering to encourage players to try and fight to the death.

To this maybe they should maximise a slayers DPS as his health gets lower and closer to death.

I hope they come up with something good :p

[Spleen]

Personally, I would much prefer Slayers to Hammerers. It never quite made sense to me why "the King's personal guard" is going around doing non-King-guarding related things. Seems to me letting a noble's bodyguard run around killing things completely unrelated to his noble would be a bigger IP breach than letting Slayers do exactly what they do best.

[Ruriktheoneeye]

Hammerers are nobles bodyguards in the armies. and some major nobles(kings and whatnot) Have em around constantly. That doesnt mean they are any less likely to go out seek treasure and adventure then say a runesmith(who has to spend his life learning the old runes so they arent forgotten) and engineer (who spend most of their time tinkering) Or ironbreakers( Who wear armour given to them to do a specific job which is not running around killing stuff... well not above groudn anyway)

[quacktar]

Here's an Idea for slayer:


I know you guys want him as an irreversible class change, but that probably won't happen.

As was commented earlier, what if you don't like being a slayer? Can't be forgiven unless you die. Not die and rez, but DIE. No dice, there.

Also, I think the jedi comment earlier was not on their rarity, but their game mechanic. You work and work and work with a non-jedi character to earn the right to create a level one jedi character. It's actually a really good system to keep down jedi population (I mean, it didn't work, really. Too easy.) But the concept is sound. Work your ironbreaker to level forty, do all kinds of crazy stuff (Discover the right location, witness a world event, complete seven specific quests, ect.) And you earn the right to create a slayer player character, to play in addition to your ironbreaker. I've always said that in a WH40K MMO, this would be the way to go from imperial guard to space marine, ideally. But I digress.

I think, for a slayer in this game, it should be a number of bonuses and abilities you earn for possessing all the slayer trappings, and nothing else. Remember what PB said?

"'As he got a hat? 'As he got a stick? Then he's a wizard!"

Just like that. Think of it this way:

Ability: Slayer's oath
cost: Passive
Effect: Damage increases exponentially as health decreases.
Restrictions: Slayer kit required
Head: Bare, w/ mohawk (0/1)
Chest: Slayer tattoos (0/1)
Leggings: Cloth, any (0/1)
Bracers: Plate (0/1)
Boots: Bare (0/1)
Hands: Bare (0/1)
Shoulders: Bare (0/1)
Weapon: Runic Axe type, any (0/1)
World event: Beard shaved (0/1)
World event: Hair shaved (0/1)
World event: Dishonored (0/1)
World event: Slayer Oath (0/1)

Chest armor: Slayer tattoos
ap: 0
Bonus if used in conjunction with slayer kit above:
+300 to strength
+300 to toughness
-300 to intelligence (I think the dishonor makes a slayer at least as crazy as they are strong and tough)
+300 to Weapon Skill
Invulnerable save

The tattoos require a large questline, and probably a lot of rvr combat (Keeping WAR is not WoW in mind) At the end, you have the opportunity to count yourself as dishonored, shave your beard and head, die your hair, and shuck your armor. Then a slayer tattoos you. The kit requires dishonor and slayer oath, because becoming dishonored doesn't mean you have the balls to become a slayer.

And every slayer ability has these restrictions. Then, you can work your character into it (the runic axe and plate bracers would keep low level players from becoming him) eventually. Slayer abilities wouldn't be part of an extra tree, or anything. You'd have to go about looking for them, learning them from other slayers.

If you don't like it? Re-dye your hair, comb it over, take up an assumed name. That's how I envision slayer being in this game.

EDIT: Talking about star wars galaxies up there.

[Crusader]

No Slayers makes me a sad panda. Them and Swordmasters were the two careers I was looking foward to on Order. I'm still holding out for Slayers to be an advanced career(I use that term loosely) or at least a new expansion career. Either way, If Mythic is striving for total badassness, then I fail to see how they can exclude the most badasss of all Dwarfs from WAR.

[Snorri]

It’s quite simple. Do you crazy quests with your ironbreaker, go back to character creation screen, new class unlocked.

A unique character with its own skills and play-style, but your old character is still alive.

Happy?

:p

Sorry but I think they should do slayers properly and not make them some half-assed temporary buff. Slayers should be their own career; I don’t care how they are put in the game, as long as I can be one permanently.

No Slayers makes me a sad panda. Them and Swordmasters were the two careers I was looking foward to on Order. I'm still holding out for Slayers to be an advanced career(I use that term loosely) or at least a new expansion career. Either way, If Mythic is striving for total badassness, then I fail to see how they can exclude the most badasss of all Dwarfs from WAR.

Agree. :(

[Brother Volker]

After thinking more about this...

I think it might be a shrewd move by Mythic to pull the Hammerer class and replace it with Slayer.

Why? Nothing against Hammerer, but dwarfs neet some help in the 'coolness' department. Really, unless your diehard dwarf fan, you can see that their classes (except for maybe the engineer) don't really stand up to the classes of other races. Slayer would go along way to remedy this. As it sits now, I will guarentee you (unless they are somehow overpowered) that dwarves will be the least played race in the game by a significant amount.

[Snorri]

After thinking more about this...

I think it might be a shrewd move by Mythic to pull the Hammerer class and replace it with Slayer.

Why? Nothing against Hammerer, but dwarfs need some help in the 'coolness' department. Really, unless your diehard dwarf fan, you can see that their classes (except for maybe the engineer) don't really stand up to the classes of other races. Slayer would go along way to remedy this. As it sits now, I will guarantee you (unless they are somehow overpowered) that dwarves will be the least played race in the game by a significant amount.

Whilst I agree that the dwarfs will most likely be the ultimate underdog, I do not think it is because Mythic have made the classes unable to "stand up to the classes of other races" at all.
The Hammerers, Ironbreakers, and Engineers all interest me greatly, and I know many people are interested in the Runepriest. You might think they are less interesting than the other races so far, but I think Mythic have done a grand job with the dwarf careers. All have interesting back lore to them and a unique play style, I don’t see why you think the classes themselves are inferior to the others.

The dwarfs will be the underdogs simply because they are dwarfs. It is like this in every MMO.

Dwarfs are tough, squat, and ugly. Most order players want to play the good looking heroes, not the grotty grim warriors. People who want to be grim and mean looking tend to play destruction races as they don’t want to ally themselves with foppish manlings or girly elflings – which they would rather be killing. Dwarf players are stuck in the middle, being honourable and good, but also being grim, bloody and made for war.

I think the slayers should be added, but I don’t think the Hammerers should be traded out for them. Although given the choice I would pick to play a slayer above the other classes, and you are right when you say Slayers would certainly add something to the race.

Maybe if Mythic give all the other races mounted combat, they'll give dwarfs slayers. (Hopeful I know)
I hope slayers will be a fifth class achievable through a quest.

[Spleen]

Hammerers are nobles bodyguards in the armies. and some major nobles(kings and whatnot) Have em around constantly. That doesnt mean they are any less likely to go out seek treasure and adventure then say a runesmith(who has to spend his life learning the old runes so they arent forgotten) and engineer (who spend most of their time tinkering) Or ironbreakers( Who wear armour given to them to do a specific job which is not running around killing stuff... well not above groudn anyway)

Maybe. But I still say that whatever IP reasons Mythic had for excluding Slayers can be matched or beaten by IP concerns for Hammerers.

I mean, what do Slayers do? Fight big things, fight bigger things, and occasionally join the army to fight even more big things.

What will players do in WAR? Fight big things, fight bigger things, and join RvR armies to kill more big (player) things.

Seems like a perfect fit with me. I'm with Volker in that replacing Hammerers with Slayers would be an worthy decision.

[dutch_gamer]

Seems like a perfect fit with me. I'm with Volker in that replacing Hammerers with Slayers would be an worthy decision.

How is it a worthy decision? The Hammerer class is pretty much done. You can't just throw away a class just because some people don't like it. And only because they want to be a Slayer no matter what. I happen to like the Hammerer and I want to play one. So why should they just do away with that class, just because some people can't get over the fact that the Slayer won't be in right away?

And honestly, Dwarfs aren't the only race in this game they have to work on. They still have the classes of the other races they are working on. They only have so much time to make the game before they have to release it. They are simply not going to throw away months worth of getting the Hammerer class where it is now.

Eventhough, I agree that the Slayer is very iconic to the Dwarf race, I also know what the class will do the race and its population. You can count on it that almost every single Dwarf player will be playing a Slayer when it is an option. But this also doesn't really work in the favor of the Dwarfs when the other classes go unplayed. You can count on it, that would happen if they would add the Slayer (If they even had the time).

Anyway, I hope that when the Slayer will be added (as an advanced class), that it will not completely lose the characteristics of the initial classes. Otherwise it should just be a seperate class, a fifth class. But then I hope they can make it different enough from the Hammerer, so that people still see a need to play that class. Because the Hammerer class is certainly going to be the class that will suffer the most, when the Slayer becomes the melee dps class. Should they chosen the Slayer over Hammerer initially? Not in my opinion because Dwarfs are also about their fine armor and big weapons. Dwarfs aren't just about Slayers only.

Also I am even somewhat glad that the Dwarfs will probably be the least played race. This because the Dwarfs will then be played by the true Dwarf fans. It will only help the Dwarf community into becoming the best in RvR because they hardly have to worry about the leet kiddies. And trust me, Slayers would attract the leet kiddie crowd. So Mythic, please take your time to implement the Slayers when you are ready, not when "majority stockholders" demand it.

[Guivert]

Also I am even somewhat glad that the Dwarfs will probably be the least played race. This because the Dwarfs will then be played by the true Dwarf fans. It will only help the Dwarf community into becoming the best in RvR because they hardly have to worry about the leet kiddies.

It'd be nice to see the dwarfs as the 'Midgard' of WAR. Midgard in Camelot was made up of the dwarves, trolls, stocky norsemen, etc. Nothing 'attractive' by any means, so the majority of the players were serious gamers, and they ruled RvR (at least on the server I played on) for a long, long time.

And while Slayers are awesome, I think it's still a less attractive option for most gamers than Witch Hunters (how can they pass up those hats?), Chaos knights, and elves (shudder). Who wants to wear zero armor, after all?

So I'm glad they're holding off on Slayers for two reasons. One, that'll keep the dwarf side of things at its purest, and two, it'll give them time to do it right.

We can show up those greenskins in RvR without Slayers anyways.

[elthareon]

im also disapointed that there might be no slayers, they are the only dwarfs i like and i have some respect for there cause. and i agree it would draw alot more players to the race if slayers where added.

[Balthemor]

Yeah no slayers is annoying as hell. It would be better if it was a career choice from start take out hmamerer and replace it with slayer alot of hammerers would be happy to play slayer i know i would

:( poor old snorri:(

[checkthis5000]

Yeah no slayers is annoying as hell. It would be better if it was a career choice from start take out hmamerer and replace it with slayer alot of hammerers would be happy to play slayer i know i would

:( poor old snorri:(

But if you did that, then you'd probably have 5 or 6 slayers for every 1 or 2 of every other dwarf.

That would ruin the game IMO, just because slayers are supposed to be a rarity.

[Snorri]

They said they are hoping to use Slayers and introduce them to the players as an expansion, in which they will offer more classes to every race.

So heres waiting for the expansion!
(yes I'm hopeful :p)

For the meantime, its hammer time!

[Smachaz]

Heck, if they gave a fifth class to the Dwarfs only i don't see how it wouldn't be fair, seeing how so many few people will actually play them. Since hammerers are practically done it would be a waste to drop them out. But the only problem with having Slayers as starting class is not that Dwarfs will be overpopulated, but that about 50% of the dwarfs will be Slayers, which would kinda against the lore imo.