Renown Mastery Analysis

[cyfir]

EDIT 9/4 to unstupid my math.

This a breakdown of return on investment (ROI) for the various Renown Masteries(RMs).

Note: To the best of my understanding, the base critical strike bonus for all abilities is 50%, which is the bonus used in calculations. Tactics and abilities that proc on crits are not factored into these conclusions. All conclusions were calculated assuming a Rank 40 player fighting another Rank 40 player.

General
- With the exception of Armor and Resist RMs(Fireproof I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14076), Unbending Will I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14073), Resilient I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14070), Arcane Protection I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14114), and Reinforcement I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14067),) all RMs provide the same ROI at all ranks.
- Armor and Resist RMs suffer from diminishing returns with each additional rank, with Rank II being 2/3 as effective as Rank I, and Rank III being 1/3 as effective as Rank I.

Base Stat RMs
-All RMs that increase one or more base stats (except Vigor I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1000619),) yield 3 points for each Renown Point (RP) spent. Vigor increases Wounds by 1.5 for each RP spent.
-Tier I has a RM to improve each base stat except wounds. At Rank V, Tier I RMs yield a total 102 points at a total cost of 34 RPs.
-Tier II has RMs that improve two base stats at once (Discipline I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1000673), Skirmisher I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1000667), Sage I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1000661), Sharp Shooter I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1000655), and Assault (Str/WS)). At Rank V, these RMs yield a total of 54 points to each of two stats (108 total,) at a total cost of 36 RPs.
-Tier II also has Vigor I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=1000619), which increases Wounds. At Rank V, Vigor yields 54 Wounds (540 HP) at a total cost of 36 RPs.
**Vigor appears generally useless - I find it difficult to imagine that 540 HP would ever be worth almost half the RPs you can possibly obtain.

Armor and Resist RMs
-These resists (see above,) increase your Armor or Resist values by a percentage of their total value.
-At Rank I, you get +0.6% per RP.
-For Rank II, you get an additional +0.4% per RP spent.
-For Rank III, you gat an additional +0.2% per RP spent.
**Since these increase by a percentage, they will only be as valuable as your current totals for these stats. I do not anticipate Reinforcement being of any value to non-tanks.

Avoidance RMs
-Each located in Tier III, Arcane Dismissal I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14142), Agility I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14138), Reflexes I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14134), and Defender I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14130) each increase one avoidance ability by 0.4% per RP spent.
**Accounting only for value to avoidance, each one of these provides more avoidance per RP (0.4%) than their equivalent base stat RMs (0.18%). Defender is the only way to increase block chance through RMs.

Crit RMs
-Each located in Tier III, Spiritual Refinement I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14091), Focused Power I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14087), Sure Shot I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14083), and Opportunist I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14079) each increase one type of crit by 0.4% per RP spent.
**You would need a total crittable DPS of 450 to make Sure Shot I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14083) and Opportunist I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14079) generate more damage than spending RPs on BS and STR, respectively. This does not factor in the unknown avoidance reduction values noted in the tooltips of BS and STR.
**You would need a total crittable DPS/HPS of 300 to make Spiritual Refinement I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14091) and Focused Power I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14087) generate more damage/healing than spending RPs in WIL/INT, respectively. This does not factor in the unknown avoidance reduction value noted in the tooltip of INT.

Autoattack
Natural Fighter I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14095) increases your auto-attack damage by 0.4% per RP spent.
** You would need a total auto-attack DPS of 75 to make this RM generate more damage than spending RPs in BS or STR. This ability would count towards the 450 crittable DPS needed to make crit RMs worthwhile.

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Boring Calculation Stuff:

Physical Crit Rate
-1 point of STR/BS provides 0.1 DPS to auto-attacks and 0.2 DPS to abilities. Under ideal conditions, these would work simultaneously without interruption, for a gross DPS gain of 0.3 DPS/stat.
-2.5 RPs worth in crit RMs provides 1% crit. 2.5 RPs in stat RMs provides 7.5 stat, or 2.25 DPS.
-1% crit = +0.5% total crittable DPS.
-At 450 total crittable DPS, 0.5% = 2.25 DPS.

Magical/Healing Crit Rate
-1 point of INT/WIL provides 0.2 DPS/HPS to abilities.
-2.5 RPs worth in crit RMs provides 1% crit. 2.5 RPs in stat RMs provides 7.5 stat, or 1.5 DPS/HPS.
-1% crit = +0.5% total crittable DPS/HPS.
-At 300 total crittable DPS/HPS, 0.5% = 1.5 DPS/HPS.

Auto Attack DPS
-1 point of STR/WS provides 0.1 DPS to auto-attack.
-2.5 RPs worth in NF provides 1% auto-attack DPS. 2.5 RPs in stat RMs provides 7.5 stat, or 0.75 DPS.
-At 75 auto-attack DPS, 1% = 0.75 DPS.

[ndogggg]

Nice work. I agree that Vigor seems wildly underwhelming comparitively.

Your post assumes that stats, resists, and armor bonuses through RM are not capped, or at least that any other caps (like from items) do not interfere with their value. Is this confirmed? I don't know, it may be, but obviously things like an armor % buff or resist % do not have a neat ROI if these bonuses do not extend them beyond some other hard or soft cap.

DAoC stat RAs were not restrained by the stat-caps from items or from buffs. DAoC resistance RAs, however, were added multiplicatively to all other resist increases, which meant you only got the full % value if you had 0 resists from other sources. However, since WAR resists are described with numbers which convert to percentages, rather that straight additive percentages like in DAoC, I'm inclined to believe that these resists are added multiplicatively, which I think your math is based on anyway.

The avoidance RMs versus their equivalent Stat RMs are kinda hard to call atm...the stats do other things besides avoidance most of the time, but the 'avoidance only' RMs definitely pack more punch. Probably need to see what kind of avoidance totals are being wielded once the end-game is mature to really tell which of these is a winner and which is a dog (though the blocking one probably is a clear winner).

As to the crit RMs, I suspect their value comes from being 'affordable' to pick up 1 or 2 ranks of while building points for ranks 3-5 of a stat. That would be similar to the RA-order in DAoC of picking up the straight 2% damage RAs to rank 3, then a rank of the corresponding crit RA, then the 4th level of the damage RA, then 2-4 of the crit RA, then finally the 5th damage RA while waiting on points for the 5th crit RA. That order gave the most DPS increase per available point, and I suspect something similar will happen here.

Again, very nice. I've been saving a serious look at RMs until I had my head better wrapped around the other mechanics, and you have saved me some time!

[cyfir]

Yes, until I see some data on caps or the lack thereof, I wasn't planning on including them in consideration. The only confirmed cap is 75% mitigation from armor. I would suspect that the same cap exists on resists, but i don't know.

[disquette]

Crit does more than just increase white/yellow dps. It can also activate tactics (jagged edge), or synergize with mechanics (40% more damage on a crit, for instance, for BW/Sorc).

[cyfir]

I could, theoretically, go class-by-class, ability-by-ability, and adjust the numbers, but I'm just not hardcore like you ~_^. I'll adjust the wording about the crit bonus assumption to reflect that fact.

[Amiag]

What about the renown tactics ? worth the points ?

[cyfir]

Well you have one Tactic slot that can only be filled with a renown tactic 1-19, and two of them 20-40, so it would make sense to get at least two. Personally I plan to get the RvR XP bonus tactic and the Scenario RP bonus tactic, but it's down to personal choice in my mind.

[PekkaR]

What about the renown tactics ? worth the points ?

Like cyfir said, it's a personal choice. They can be worth the points but aren't very suitable for being analyzed in the same way.

[TeleFox]

Much thanks for the nicely laid out info cyfir, I was working through the +Int RM vs. +Magic Crit RM issue only yesterday, but I didn't write anything down so when I realised I'd forgotten to account for the Endless Knowledge bonus it threw everything right out. Very handy to have a resource with most of the hard work already done =3

[PekkaR]

This post has turned out to be (even) more useful than I expected. I've returned to look at it as a thinking aid couple of times now. Finally managed to clarify my thinking about some bits that disturbed me though.


Crit RMs
-Each located in Tier III, Spiritual Refinement I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14091), Focused Power I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14087), Sure Shot I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14083), and Opportunist I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14079) each increase one type of crit by 0.4% per RP spent.
**You would need a total crittable DPS of 450 to make Sure Shot I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14083) and Opportunist I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14079) generate more damage than spending RPs on BS and STR, respectively. This does not factor in the unknown avoidance reduction values noted in the tooltips of BS and STR.
**You would need a total crittable DPS/HPS of 300 to make Spiritual Refinement I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14091) and Focused Power I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14087) generate more damage/healing than spending RPs in WIL/INT, respectively. This does not factor in the unknown avoidance reduction value noted in the tooltip of INT.

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Physical Crit Rate
-1 point of STR/BS provides 0.1 DPS to auto-attacks and 0.2 DPS to abilities. Under ideal conditions, these would work simultaneously without interruption, for a gross DPS gain of 0.3 DPS/stat.
-2.5 RPs worth in crit RMs provides 1% crit. 2.5 RPs in stat RMs provides 7.5 stat, or 2.25 DPS.
-1% crit = +0.5% total crittable DPS.
-At 450 total crittable DPS, 0.5% = 2.25 DPS.

Magical/Healing Crit Rate
-1 point of INT/WIL provides 0.2 DPS/HPS to abilities.
-2.5 RPs worth in crit RMs provides 1% crit. 2.5 RPs in stat RMs provides 7.5 stat, or 1.5 DPS/HPS.
-1% crit = +0.5% total crittable DPS/HPS.
-At 300 total crittable DPS/HPS, 0.5% = 1.5 DPS/HPS.


Hold! You can't judge the value of added base dps or crit without taking into account the current crit rate.

- If you have a 10% crit rate against an enemy, then 7.5 Str or BS becomes worth 2.25*(1+0.1*0.5) = 2.3625 dps. Now the break point before 1% crit is worth more than 7.5 stat becomes 472.5 crittable dps.
- If you have a 20% crit rate against an enemy, the break point is 495 crittable dps.
- For magical DPS and HPS those would be 315 and 330 respectively.

Of course you don't normally know your crit rate against a specific enemy in WAR, so you have to settle on an enemy type and optimize your dps against the rough average Initiative of that enemy type.


Autoattack
Natural Fighter I (http://www.wardb.com/spell.aspx?id=14095) increases your auto-attack damage by 0.4% per RP spent.
** You would need a total auto-attack DPS of 75 to make this RM generate more damage than spending RPs in BS or STR. This ability would count towards the 450 crittable DPS needed to make crit RMs worthwhile.

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Auto Attack DPS
-1 point of STR/WS provides 0.1 DPS to auto-attack.
-2.5 RPs worth in NF provides 1% auto-attack DPS. 2.5 RPs in stat RMs provides 7.5 stat, or 0.75 DPS.
-At 75 auto-attack DPS, 1% = 0.75 DPS.


I believe this bonus should be valued against the full worth of stats. Since 7.5 Str or BS would give 2.25 dps from both abilities and auto attack combined, then for this to be worth taking you should have 225 auto attack dps. I suppose high crit rate also acts in favor of the stats but I won't follow that line of thought further right now.

[cyfir]

Correct on all points. I had assumed this thread was dead; hadn't done anything to update it. I will do so sometime this weekend. Based on profiles I've looked at, the game is i think designed to put crit rate around 20% without stacking Initiative.

Also, the auto-attack talent *may* be a lot more valuable, but there's no way to test it without someone taking it. According to Disquette's tests, every melee ability you use is (gross paraphrasing of math inc,) autoswing@1.5speed + str/bs bonus + tooltip damage, so if NF affects *that*, it's a whole lot more useful.