No staves

[Purex Deathstalker]

I think bright wizards (WARNING I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BRIGHT WIZARD LORE)should wield something other than a wooded staff(pyros would not weild one i know this)I think they wield one hnad swords correct me if im wrong

Oh and we should get a freaking "set self on fire and and run at the enemy before exploding" type spell. It would be A. funny as hell B. Very Bright wizardish C. Probly be a OMG SCREENIE type moment

My two cents

[Lothario]

All magesin warhammer have a staff. It's not only a symbol of their office but used to help channel their particular winds of magic, store it, and cast spells from it.

If you want a good example of that then check the warhammer novel "Magestorm" One of the main characters is a Bright Wizard, who does indeed use a staff but also carries a sword, there is actually one decently written part where he duel wields them to great effect:D

But yea, Mages need staffs, or staves, 'pending how you want to write it;), to help power, wield, channel or store their brand of magic. It's a necessity to help them achieve greater feats then normally possible and sustain them in a battle for a far longer duration.

That doesn't mean they don't use other weapons because they do, its just as casters they use magic far more than cold steel.

and erm...pyros are Bright Wizards.

WAR gamewise....I wouldn't see why they would not allow a mage to use any other weapon, however don't expect to get any added bonuses to your stats or magic from it. A staff is what makes them tick, a well made bit of Imperial steel is just incase things get extra close.

[Baron Khaine]

Hopefully the bright wizards casting animations will not come from his hands like in WoW, but from his staff like the High Elf in the trailer. I think it would look much better.

[Kruez]

I think they should wield both sword and staff, both, I think, are iconic of Empire wizards. It's very representive of the idea that everyone knows how to fight.

Looking at the current mini range, NO Empire wizard is carrying just a staff, they're are all carrying swords as well (well, one carries a hammer instead). And anyone can wield hand weapons (ie swords, axes, hammers, etc.) in the WHRPG. So, I really hope their should be the option to wield both sword and staff in the game, and it should be beneficial (so long as they aren't lieing when they says everyone will be competent in melee).

However, I'll agree with the above that Bright Wizards should use staves as well, for all the reasons Lothario has given.

[Lothario]

Yeah, on my old (god knows what) edition Empire rulebook there is a picture of a Bright Wizard using a sword, the sword is wreathed in flame and a long trail of fire is following its wake. The picture makes it look like the sword has just been hammered into place by a blacksmith, you know when its hot it appears to be molten lava.

It would be great if a wizard had that ability. Equips his own sword and flame it up for a short duration, I mean if WAR is all about everyone being able to fight then that'd be quite neat for them a wizard to do, make a wizard an awkward foe to face in combat for a brief period.

I remember an annoyance when I played wow, I can understand perfectly why the game was designed as it was but when I created my priest I was seriously annoyed when I was limited to particular weapons, as I stated I understand why it was done, fit in with lore and the characters etc. But even with the weapons you was alotted, as in dagger, mace and staff. The only weapon, unless epic, that was of any benefical use to the Priest was the staff, so there was no point at all of using anything else. Yes I'm missing out wand on purpose as that was always used in the alternate hand.

I lost count of the times I was called a noob (how you could call any lvl60 a noob god knows) when walking around bashing things with a mace or stabbing them with a dagger. I just enjoyed using something different from the accepted norm. But come pvp or pve against anything at your lvl it just made it harder.

A Bright Wizard in WAR should definately need a staff, in warhammer it does all the things I stated in the earlier post, but, a mage can be just as deadly without it using a different weapon for a short time, I mean battle mages employed in the Empires armies are seriously hard characters, and many an iconic image/story of a battle mage is using a flaming sword smiting the foes of the Empire.

I for one am really hoping that WAR designers don't alot specific weapon groups to a class. All classes should get benefits for using a certain type of weapon that is symbolic of that class, mages with staffs obviously, Warrior Priests with Hammers, Witch Hunters with pistols (for the reason that they always seem to be using them:razz:) but allow the user to select what he/she wants.

[Seldaren]

the sword is wreathed in flame and a long trail of fire is following its wake.

That's actually a spell that Bright Wizards have. I forget the exact name, something like Flaming Sword of Rhuin or something along those lines.

There have been a couple posts around here about it, leading some folks to think that the Bright Wizard will have some melee ability and won't be completely ranged.

Actually, here's a link about it (and other Lore of Fire spells):
http://www.redelf.h1.ru/w6/magic/lore_fire.html

Seldaren

[Lothario]

Yeah I know the spell your on about, its written of in the book Magestorm as well, but its not a magically manifested sword that I commented on, its actually a real sword that the Bright Wizard is using, if you see a picture of it you'll know what I'm on about.

I'd say thats pretty much why Mythic/GW picked this lore for the Empire wizards. As Bright Wizards more than any other use powerful, destructive spells and many of them are up close and personal. The vast majority of Battle Wizards employed in the Empires armies are Bright Wizards because of this.

So that may be a way Mythic will move around the whole "no stave" debate we got going here, Bright Wizards don't need a sword as they can cast their own, or the other side they can use a sword but "flame on" :)

[Purex Deathstalker]

Well im ok with staves but ya know I think a guy covered in gasoline (or w/e) lights EVERYTHING on fire should have trouble using a wooden staff/stave A steel or iron or magical stave works but not just oo A stick with a jewel in it type thing would just dissapear in a magical/chemical/natural flame

Ill read that when i have time , Thanks for the info

[Smachaz]

Oh and we should get a freaking "set self on fire and and run at the enemy before exploding" type spell. It would be A. funny as hell B. Very Bright wizardish C. Probly be a OMG SCREENIE type moment

My two cents

hahah yeah, imagine an big group of Kamikaze Wizards charging trowards the Capital city.

[Kraus]

Problem is when you make soemthign that causes the user to die, it has to be proportionatly powerful, and it encourages zerging rushes. Not to mention while they are crazy they dont want to DIE themselves.

[1337mojo]

Hopefully the bright wizards casting animations will not come from his hands like in WoW, but from his staff like the High Elf in the trailer. I think it would look much better.

In the Warhammer books I.E Gotrek and Felix in the first book when they meet a Wizard he shoots flame balls from his hands :|

[Ken]

You guys make it sound like it wouldn't hurt if you got clobbed in the head with a staff. Or a shot to the gut. Or hit at all.

Those ends are kind of spikey sometimes...decorated with jewels and curved metal. Or if it's just wooden, it can still do some damage.

Look at the trailer. The high elf fights with his staff melee and then shoots out of a spell.

Me and a friend made UD battle mages in WoW...they're only effective low level, but we busted out with swords and an off-hand and dueled people. it was like "frost nova. fireball. run in and melee. Back it up with fireblast."

That's kind of how I picture warhammer casters being. Except having a little more melee capabilities. Maybe some buffs to make their fighting better (like Flame Sword of Rhuin).

[zenarion]

As long as the wizards aren't limited to some pansy staves, i'm fine.

[Whightwolf]

In the Warhammer books I.E Gotrek and Felix in the first book when they meet a Wizard he shoots flame balls from his hands :|


Umm it's called magic. Physics need not apply.

[Kraus]

Indeed, if staves are just infact the sole thing they will be expected to use, expect them to be more damaging then the traditional. WH is a more in your face setting then the traditional frail and pale spellcasters.

[Lothario]

Well that sounds good :D Warhammer mages, especially Bright Wizards are hardcore, ultra aggressive badarses.

And the debate isn't about whether a staff hurts more or less Ken, but that we'd like to see something different in a classes arsenal, which actually goes with warhammer lore.

[Purex Deathstalker]

I dont deny that staves can do damage, its just that Bright Wizzies are so hot that a wooden stave would simply become ash


Plus staves can OWN (Lord of the Rings 3, Brue Lee movies, Matrix 2, Crouching Tiger etc)

The fire spell thing should only be used when the user is below 15% health and it should do alot of damage, damage will scale when users health gets lower. It would cost 20% of your current mana/magicka/magic/blue stuff/spirit/what ever is used in the "magic bar"


If you were on the verge of death, a pryomaniac, loony, and had a super cool fire spell that not only killed you but most likey killed every thing or greatly damage everything with in a 5yd raidus, i bet you would so use it too

[Ken]

Ahh okay. It just didn't seem very specific where you guys were going with the whole staff things...

But yea. Like zenarion said, or something, I wouldn't want them limited to staves either. I'll be using a 1h sword on my Bright Wizard definitely. That Flame Sword spell sounds hot! (no pun intended)

I just hope, since they say everyone has melee capabilities, that they'll get something to back up their staff fighting abilities (and not just zomg auto-attack in between spells). I think all staff wielders should get to fight (effectively) with their staffs. I haven't heard it described that it WON'T be like this, but I haven't heard any descriptions leading me to think it will be either.

It's still really early.

[Kraus]

Purex - that would be horrible for balance, and theres no traditional mana system as far as we've seen - rapidly regenerating action points.

[Hyrus]

Why does a staff have to me made of wood?

[Seldaren]

Purex - that would be horrible for balance, and theres no traditional mana system as far as we've seen - rapidly regenerating action points.

Well, we know that Shaman have a "Waaagh!" power bar, that is seperate from the Action Bar and Morale Bar.
So Bright Wizards could well have an equivalent too.

That being said, I'm not really sure I like the idea of a spell that requires you to be almost dead to use.

Seldaren

[War Weasel]

And even if it was a wood staff, couldn't it be magically enchanted to not burst into flames by a guy who typically bursts things into flames? It's magic, I'm guessing it can do lots and lots of things, just look at David Blaine! I would've been barfing out my ears after being in a gyroscope for 52 hours! ...But, on the subject of staves, I think it'd be neat if wizards and the like got some melee ability with those staves, as shone in the cinematic video.

[zenarion]

Maybe staves can be the wizards equivalent of shields? Providing some forcefield around him or something. This gives the wizard room for nifty light bladed weapons :D

[Flegler]

Staves are good, just as long as they aren't glued to the wizard's back. If they could be incorporated into casting animations then so much the better.

[Kazgut]

Staves are good just as long as they aren't made out of wood, would be kind of stupid if they were...



You know since Bright Wizards use fire and all...

[Kraus]

Selderan - Waaagh! is a fairly iconic thing to Greenskins tho, it would of been horrifying if they didnt put it in to some degree; but the normally magicy abilities have been tied to action points so far; which I'm liking. I agree that they could have something, but I would personally like if they were just tied to action points.

[Klepa]

Hopefully the bright wizards casting animations will not come from his hands like in WoW, but from his staff like the High Elf in the trailer. I think it would look much better.

Oh God yes! quoted for truth my friend! I hated that in WoW, a new cool staff, just to use it as a backpack ._.

[Seldaren]

Selderan - Waaagh! is a fairly iconic thing to Greenskins tho, it would of been horrifying if they didnt put it in to some degree; but the normally magicy abilities have been tied to action points so far; which I'm liking. I agree that they could have something, but I would personally like if they were just tied to action points.

Yeah, I know. But I think if they go that route with Waaagh!, they need to do it for all magic-using classes. Otherwise, an imbalance is created.

For Bright Wizards, I would expect the "power" to be a quantity of Aqshy in some fashion. That they somehow have to "channel" the Wind in order to use it.

Hopefully the bright wizards casting animations will not come from his hands like in WoW, but from his staff like the High Elf in the trailer. I think it would look much better.

That can be kind of tough to do though, art wise and likely requires a lot more work on the part of the artists to animate. As there are staves of differing sizes and shapes (hopefully anyway).

Seldaren

[Ken]

For Bright Wizards, I would expect the "power" to be a quantity of Aqshy in some fashion. That they somehow have to "channel" the Wind in order to use it.

I think they may be doing something along those lines for the Chaos' Magus. A while ago when I was first introduced to Warhammer, I looked up the original Warhammer Online that was being created and they were talking about that for all the magic-using classes.

The idea for that Warhammer was that depending on the area you're in, you channel the raw magic and turn it into the magic that you know (whether that be fire, ice, lightning, paying the bills, or doing taxes) and different areas had different magics within the winds or land.

They kept referring to it and explaining it using words that'd describe a pool. Like shallow and deep. If the magic in that area was deep then you'd have very strong spells, however the recharge rate would most likely be very slow for that area so your spells would be strong, but you'd only have a couple in the fight. If you were in a "shallow area" with fast recharge rate, you could cast weak spells, but much more of them.

If Mythic adopted this idea that'd be neat, but I dunno who knows what they got up their sleeve. The original idea sounds like EVERYONE is melee. Everyone can fight equally. The warriors and rogue types all get more melee skills and stuns, whereas the magic types get fireballs in place of warrior-types' "bashes and special swings".

Anyway. Back to where I was going with this...if they gave Chaos something like this since they've ALREADY SAID he (the chaos Magus) pulls the magic out of the winds around him and turns it into fire/lightning...well Bright Wizards would be fine without something special. Shamans have their Waagghh. Magus have their special thing. If a Bright Wizard had the normal everyday regular ole casting like in other MMO's (except the fact that there's not really any mana and just Action Points) then I say I think it'll be alright. Not everyone has to be special...Bright Wizards are going to own with their awesome fire spells regardless.

[Purex Deathstalker]

Purex - that would be horrible for balance, and theres no traditional mana system as far as we've seen - rapidly regenerating action points.

And thats why im not a game designer:cool:


But it would be funny and thats my lil skill right there

If i did really want to balance it i would have like a paragraph of balancing crap:rolleyes:

My mind is nowhere near that sane thinking process at this minute:?:

[Varangarian]

Swords have been iconic with Bright Mages forever, I'm sure they'll have them...they must cause thats what im probably going to be.

A Aqshy bar would be pretty cool, especially with the magic system you all discused above. Great ideas.

A power system like in the TT would work to where you spend X action points to gain Y power, but Y is a random value like 1-30 for every 15 action points or something. So sometimes you have enough power for your big spell...sometimes you dont, and its your choice to save that power until you get more AP or unleash some weaker spells now. I think that system would be amazing as well as totaly random with the whole Warhammer theme.

Besides Bright Mages are renown for decimating their foes and then sometimes...well they decimate something, not necassarly their foes.

[Anaris]

Didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has come up before.

A metal stave wouldn't work. The stave stores and channels the Winds at the direction of the wizard, making it a potent tool for assisting spells. Metal, on the other hand, absorbs and distorts the Winds. Any large quantity of metal makes it functionally impossible for a mage to cast, that's why they can't wear armour. A solid metal staff would just make it harder.

A wooden stave would not burn unless the Bright Wizard using it was so utterly retarded that he set his own hands on fire, and even then it would probably survive because 1 ) six feet of solid oak is harder to light than you think 2 ) the flames would be controlled - his hands don't burn and blister, so neither should his stave 3 ) the stave channels the Winds, which probably means its designed to do so and therefore capable of channeling the fire through itself and outwards rather than just lighting.

[FuelForHatred]

I saw the Zealot had some sort of skull he carried around with him, im assuming this has some sort of buffs.

Now what I'd really like to se is the BW with some sort of orb he drew powers from, like a second hand thingy. Insert cool artwork and I think it would be a hit.

If this goes agains the Warhammer lore than just disregard this post...

[Dabigbom]

Normally (lorewise), Bright Wizards are able to channel their magic, both through the use of staffs and hands (imo the gauntlets or the iron wrists around their hands are used to channel bright magic). The Flaming Sword of Rhuin just conjures a sword of flame that doesn't last long (although it's pretty damn effective)...

A metal stave wouldn't work. The stave stores and channels the Winds at the direction of the wizard, making it a potent tool for assisting spells. Metal, on the other hand, absorbs and distorts the Winds. Any large quantity of metal makes it functionally impossible for a mage to cast, that's why they can't wear armour. A solid metal staff would just make it harder.

Bright Wizard Staff 1 (http://www.war-rvr.net/images/rsgallery/original/Bright_Wizard_Staff_-_High_1.jpg) - this one looks like it's made from Silver or some sort of alloy...

Bright Wizard Staff 2 (http://www.war-rvr.net/images/rsgallery/original/Bright_Wizard_Staff_-_Medium_5.jpg) - this one looks like it's made from Copper or Brass

Bright Wizard Staff 3 (http://www.war-rvr.net/images/rsgallery/original/Bright_Wizard_Staff_-_High_5.jpg) - @_@ Gold staff?

These staffs look pretty "metal" to me.....weird huh? :D

[Farore]

Maybe they're made of stone.. got 100kg staff?

[Dabigbom]

besides it's not the point whether BW's are using staffs or bare hands to do magic, the DAMAGE has to be the main factor :D

[Anaris]

Dab: hey, don't look at me. i don't check the screenshots - i just talk about the warhammer lore.

[LastHeretic]

aslong as the staves are decent and used in casting i have no problem with it. always hated that about WoW, y have a giant scythe staff if you'r goin to stick it to your back.

i like the idea of casting actually being casting, instead of just standing in one pose for 10 secs with your hands infront of u i want the mage to swirl the staff/sword above his head drawing in "flame" from the surrounding area then frag the staff down infront of him to actually propel the flame at the enemy. more of a slingshot idea that way :)