PDA

View Full Version : Regarding Norsemen


Nerror
12-26-2006, 01:21 PM
I really like GW's take on Norsemen. A large part of my interest stems from the fact that I am Danish, and as such my ancestors are norse too. :cool: It's important to realize that the Norse aren't the same as the tribes from the Chaos Wastes like the Kurgan and the Hung and the Great Eagle tribe and what-not. Anyways, on with it:

In my Roleplaying Tzeentch thread (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=86458) I briefly introduce the Norse with information from the Liber Chaotica (http://www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp?prod=60040281005&type=Book):

Norsemen means literally 'men of the north', and as such is not the name by which they call themselves, but rather a moniker their victims have given them. They live in Norsca, a harsh and cold land, that borders Kislev to the south, the Sea of Chaos to the west, and a vast glacial shelf to the north. The Norse are made up of many different families and tribes, with little to connect them but a similar tongue and way of life. Thus such a warrior would never call himself a "Norseman", but instead a "Bjornling" or a "Varg", for their only loyalty is to their families and their kin.

They are constantly in bloody strife and war amongst themselves, pausing only to launch raids by land or sea upon the people to the south, slaughtering, defiling their holy places and enslaving their children.

Blood feuds are common among the Norse and can last for many years between tribes and settlements. Feuds can also occur within towns and villages as well as between different groups of close kin. When these take hold, they are settled quickly and bloodily. But it is unto their gods that the Norse owe their highest fealty. They care only for the material advantages that their Lords can bestow.

For the Norse there is no kingdom of Morr, there is nothing after death except for the realm of their gods, and they will only travel there to be lauded and praised as true and strong warriors, or to be reviled and tortured as betrayers and cowards. Thus every Norseman fights with an insane fervour driven by this belief.

The Tome of Corruption (http://blackindustries.com/?template=WH&content=wfrp-tome-corruption) goes into more detail (and is perhaps slightly less biased) about some aspects. I can warmly recommend the book to anyone interested in Chaos.

Society

Norse society is made up of 7 distinct tribes that venerate their own heroes and their own visions of the Gods, but all share similar social structures. Due to geography and the influence of Chaos, there are some marked differences between the Northern and Southern tribes.

The northern tribes bordering the Frozen Sea are closer to the Chaos Wastes and develop more mutations and variety than the southern tribes. They are also more savage since they regularly come into conflict with the Kurgan tribes of the Wastes. The tribes include the Graelings, Vargs and the Aeslings.

The southern tribes are somewhat milder than their brethren to the north. They raid and plunder like all norsemen do, but they also sometimes trade and have other peaceful interactions with Kislev and the Empire. However, if the Gods call for war, they will march south with the rest of the Chaos Warhost, bent on destruction and conquest. The southern tribes include the Bjornlings, Skaelings, Baersonlings and Sarls.

The Norse have a classed society. At the very bottom are the thralls, slaves who have been captured in raids. They are men, women and children who are forced into a hard life of servitude and labour. Most end their lives as a sacrifice to curry the favour of the Gods. When a new Longship is finished, the norsemen line the approach to the sea with screaming thralls, to crush the life out of them as the warriors push the boat into the waters.

Next on the rung are the peasants. They are the Norsemen who lack skill or ability at arms. Reviled as inferior and weak, they are relegated to serving the Jarls as builders, farmers and craftsmen.

The ideal person in Norscan culture is the young, virile slayer. He's courageous, skilled, and tough. He is the warrior. He is the hunter, the defender, the raider, and the hero. He fights not only for honour and glory but for the respect of his ancestors and the favour of the Dark Gods.

Seers advise the Jarls in matters pertaining to the will of their ancestors and the Gods. It falls to these priveledged men and women to interpret the movements of the Winds of Magic, the whispers of Daemons, and the spirits of fallen warriors to guide the Jarl to choose the proper course for his tribe. Vitki fulfil a role similar to the Seers, but are steeped in the arcane traditions of the Ruinous Powers. With a word, a Vitki can order any peasant's death, and thralls die by the scores to fuel the dark magic needed to perform their rituals.

The Jarls are great warriors who are loyal to their king, and get warriors, land, treasure and thralls in return.

Though Norse society is patriarchal, women have a stronger place in these lands than many might suspect. A woman may own property and can become a Jarl if her husband dies and has no male offspring. It is up to the woman to decide whom she weds and if she divorces. Whilst women are expected to stay behind during raids and wars, it falls to them to protect the home, so most are competent, if not out-right skilled, warriors.

Culture

The Norsemen have a rich society with traditions passed down intact since the time of Sigmar. They are free spirits who form a nation built upon the foundations of honour, loyalty, and respect.

The Norsemen live in two worlds: one is visible, tangible; the other is the world of spirits and Daemons, lying just beyond the senses. They believe what they see around them is the lie, a deception created to test them. Instead, the Spirit World is the truth, and only through the guidance of their mystics and the blessings of their Gods can they penetrate the veil of the senses and peer into the true reality.

Since life as experienced by the senses is a deception, the Norsemen do not cling to life like the other races. They throw themselves into the thick of combat to show their worth to their Gods and their ancestors, all in the hope of receiving a blessing , or to be plucked from the dream in death by one of the shadowy Warrior Hags to join their fellows in the Halls of Glory. Pain, suffering, and other physical maladies are all illusions and are accepted as part of their existence.

A Norseman may only journey to the Realm of the Gods by proving his worth in the dream, and to prove it he must die a glorious death in battle. Those who beg for mercy or cling to the world of the living are found wanting and cursed to to wander the world as disembodied spirits, or worse, fed to the Great Dragon that Squats, where they are reborn as slaves, women, or worse, Old Worlders.

Religion

Norse religion is dynamic and complex, featuring a broad pantheon of Ancestors, Heroes, Daemons, and Gods. The Gods themselves vary from tribe to tribe, but each group of Norsemen embrace a pantheon that reflects four central themes: War, Desire, Decay, and Hope. Norse pantheons rarely feature just a single God per theme, rather they may have several. Instead of a single God of Battle, they might have three: one for wrath, another for death, and a last for excellence in arms.

The Norsemen see themselves as honest men, strong, mighty, and courageous. And for these virtues they thank the Gods. They worship the Gods they do because they see their power in all things, and are vividly reminded of that potency. Southern Gods, like Sigmar, are weak in comparison to the primal forces of life and death represented by their deities. To the Norsemen, the blessings of the Gods (e.g. mutations) are the clearest sign of their power, proving to them that the Gods of the Empire are weak and impotent.

Estebar
12-26-2006, 06:17 PM
I was gonna write out that for you! Nice one, dark loremaster.

There was also a Black Library book about an Empire knight captured by a Tzeentch warband and converted to their side. I can't remember what it was called though. Their chieftain was this shrivelled little grotesque foetus thing tied to a silent, faceless giant in red armour. They gave him a new Tzeentchian name and everything. It might've been because he had a mutation. I can't remember.

Anyway, if anyone can remember that book, I recommend it for fluff on Tzeentchian barbarian warriors from the north.

spirit
12-27-2006, 06:37 PM
Nerror, you really are an asset to all followers of the Great Gods.

Just a pity you never joined the Sons, but keep on writing, I enjoy your overviews.

khornate
01-23-2007, 05:24 PM
awsome the norse are some of my faverite i wish i had blue eyes blond hair like them :p id like to read that tzeentch book if you ever remember the name

Ruinx
01-23-2007, 05:45 PM
It's always nice to see an evil side who is full of utterly insane individuals who think they are fighting for what's right, as the Norscans sound like they are. I shall enjoy hitting them with my sword even more, as I think about their vile plans and goals!

Smachaz
01-23-2007, 08:57 PM
It's always nice to see an evil side who is full of utterly insane individuals who think they are fighting for what's right, as the Norscans sound like they are. I shall enjoy hitting them with my sword even more, as I think about their vile plans and goals!

hehe, the British aren't perfect either my friend.

Nice read,.... i didn't even know they had Kings :oops:

Ruinx
01-24-2007, 11:40 AM
hehe, the British aren't perfect either my friend.

Nice read,.... i didn't even know they had Kings :oops:

How do the British fit into this? Are you thinking of a different game maybe? No Brits in Warhammer.

Guivert
01-25-2007, 10:54 PM
Any idea which of the tribes the Zealot and the as of yet unnamed class happen to represent?

It seems to me they'd have to be one of the more southernly tribes, but I don't know enough about them to know which.

I found it interesting that the main aspect they attribute to Tzeentch happens to be 'hope' (even though they may have more gods under that category as well). Maybe we'll see a more human side of the chaotic Norsemen in their quests and story arcs.

Irakaz
01-26-2007, 06:14 AM
Any idea which of the tribes the Zealot and the as of yet unnamed class happen to represent?

It seems to me they'd have to be one of the more southernly tribes, but I don't know enough about them to know which.

I found it interesting that the main aspect they attribute to Tzeentch happens to be 'hope' (even though they may have more gods under that category as well). Maybe we'll see a more human side of the chaotic Norsemen in their quests and story arcs.
I would assume Zealots are simply Northmen from various tribes who join together to form the Tribes of the Great Eagle. They follow Tzeench, whom they name Tchar. Fits in with the the whole zealot theme. Differing Tribes come together and roam the North in cool sounding chariots made of bones.

Similarly the last class seems to be just marauders from what I can see. They come from all tribes and are called marauders by their enemies rather than themselves. After all they raid and pillage and they are differentiated by their enemies as warriors of chaos that have not yet been favoured with a suit of armour yet.

I can't remember exactly where I read it but my signature is an excerpt from an Empire Captain I think talking about these raiders. A soldiers greatest foe is deprevation and the troubles and exertions he must struggle through before any battle is fought. Men of the Empire steel themselves to this task, but only in response to a threat, whereas for marauders that is simply their way of life.

To answer your question a bit better the Norse tribes closest to the Empire are the Baersonlings, Sarls and Aeslings to the North-east. Skaelings, Bjornlings and Graelings to the North-west and Vargs a little further north.

Nerror
01-27-2007, 07:13 PM
The Great Eagle Tribe isn't Norscan. It's based north of Norsca, and has nothing to do with the 7 Norscan tribes.

However, the Zealot could very well be a Norscan take on the Great Eagle Tribe shamans. Ravens, which seem to be the birds of choice for the Zealot, are definitely fitting the Norse mythology (in RL). Odin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin), also known as the 'raven-god', had 2 ravens: Hugin and Munin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugin_and_Munin). Hugin is "thought" and Munin is "memory". They are sent out at dawn to gather information and return in the evening. That sounds somewhat Tzeentchian to me. It's not inconcievable that the WH Norscans use ravens in a similar way.

Pendrako
01-28-2007, 09:23 AM
Thanks for that Nerror - it was an excellent read. I've been tempted for a while by the Tome of Corruption... I think you just made up my mind to get myself a copy of it.

I'm intrigued to know what Mythic's vision of the Chaos army is, and how it came to be. Is it mainly Norscan, or from the Northern Wastes? Is it from one tribe in particular, or a collection of different tribes united by Tchar'zanek? Hopefully there will be a lot more explanation of the background to the Chaos army given to us as the game nears completion.

Seldaren
01-29-2007, 09:14 AM
The Great Eagle Tribe isn't Norscan. It's based north of Norsca, and has nothing to do with the 7 Norscan tribes.

While true, the Norscans do worship Tzeentch as Tchar, in the form on an Eagle.

They also worship Nurgle as the Crow. Slannesh as the Serpent. Khorne as the Wolf.

Seldaren

Nerror
01-30-2007, 05:40 AM
While true, the Norscans do worship Tzeentch as Tchar, in the form on an Eagle.

They also worship Nurgle as the Crow. Slannesh as the Serpent. Khorne as the Wolf.

Seldaren

Where did you get that from? I mean, specific mention that some Norscans (not Northmen, that's too vague/generalised and might not have anything to do with Norscans) worship Tzeentch as Tchar (eagle). I'm not doubting your word, but I didn't see it in the Liber Chaotica or the Tome of Corruption. I'll have to reread those sections to be 100% sure though, I could have missed it. Is it in the TT Army book?

DrizztxGuen
08-13-2008, 06:38 PM
I don't know much about Warhammer other than what I could glean from the internet and the Warhammer Fantasy novels.
So I was wondering if anything similar to the Elemental Plane/Elementals in D&D, or the Elements in Warcraft are in Warhammer?
Also, do Tzeentch followers have any saying similar to 'Blood for the Blood God', anything like that?

Nerror
08-14-2008, 10:15 AM
I don't know much about Warhammer other than what I could glean from the internet and the Warhammer Fantasy novels.
So I was wondering if anything similar to the Elemental Plane/Elementals in D&D, or the Elements in Warcraft are in Warhammer?
Also, do Tzeentch followers have any saying similar to 'Blood for the Blood God', anything like that?

I guess you can draw some parallels between the elements in those two games and Warhammer, but there are some major differences, so I think it's better for the understanding to not compare and simply read up on the lore with an open mind, so to speak.

As for the motto, try this thread: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13658 :)

Ceyl
08-14-2008, 12:49 PM
In the Old Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, one type of wizard was an elementalist. However, Warhammer lore has moved away from the whole elemental thing. The empire has a long tradition of fire-wizards, but that`s about it.

The whole metaphysics about elements was something the greeks came up with and has been expanded in some fantasy worlds, but Warhammer is a dark medievel world where life is too bloody hard for metaphysics, if you get my meaning.

btw, funny how all the interesting threads are started more than a year ago.

Mogdin Wrathammer
08-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Excellent work, Liber Chaotica is brilliant.

Strudel
08-14-2008, 09:30 PM
I don't know much about Warhammer other than what I could glean from the internet and the Warhammer Fantasy novels.
So I was wondering if anything similar to the Elemental Plane/Elementals in D&D, or the Elements in Warcraft are in Warhammer?
Also, do Tzeentch followers have any saying similar to 'Blood for the Blood God', anything like that?

One word. Wikipedia. I learned so much about Warhammer off that website. When I first heard about the game, I didnt know anything until I searched wikipedia!

Zunjin
08-14-2008, 11:38 PM
@ Estebar

Estebar took the example of a empire knight being taken prisoner by marauders and turning to their side. In the book "Riders of the dead" the story is being centred around just a empire soldier being taken as a war prisoner at first, and then changed into a chaos champion. The norsemen themself come to respect this man even if he once was a empire soldier, becouse in their belief his change is just a blessing of their god, Tzeentch who is the changer of ways.
There is also a minor charather in the book following the same path whos a imperial knight to begin with.

Tarja
09-02-2008, 10:24 AM
quick bookmark. thanks for all of your posts and info like this

ticho123
09-02-2008, 10:53 AM
Just have to add that the chaos tribes isn't similiar to the viking tribes at all, even tho it's popular to believe that they were plundering barbarian murderers.

Farao51
09-02-2008, 02:25 PM
Its not like they sacrifice their kids if they faint while working, though.

they live kind of like the viking did, with a little evil-religion twist.

ticho123
09-02-2008, 02:37 PM
Its not like they sacrifice their kids if they faint while working, though.

they live kind of like the viking did, with a little evil-religion twist.

I really don't want to get involved in some sort of vikingdiscussion, but vikings were actually up to pair with other european people when it came to civilization, if you don't count the greek or roman empires, wich by the time we began call scandinavians vikings, about year 800, already had fallen.
Sure, some disputes ended in bloodshed but there were sort of trials and politic discussions held at meetings called "tings".
And human sacrfice almost never occured.

I'm scandinavian and have read the Edda and many more of old norse tales and feel a need to protect my heritage once in a while, the viking society really didn't strive for a world of chaos, and they were actually more of traders then raiders.