What are your hopes/fears for the Black Orcs

[Ripple]

Two polls I have seen say that the class most people will chose first is the Black Orc. I want to know what are everyone's hopes for the Black Orc class. In the MMO past tank classes have gotten a raw deal. In WoW and CoH they started as the strongest classes (warrior in WoW and Tanker in CoH) and were later nerfed beyond recognition. I have a similar fear for the Black Orcs. It is hard to balance a class that is meant to take vast amounts of damage. They are almost always lousy damage dealers, very sad for the players that enjoy being in the think of things. The game is of course in its very early stages but I would like to hear from the people what are your biggest hopes and fears for the Black Orcs. Will they be nerfed to suck-dom after launch, or will WAR manage to keep the "tank" class viable in PvP.

[Hyrus]

Most tank classes are partially balanced on account of aggro and the presence of a healer-role class, of which there aren't a lot of either in WAR from what I understand. Most previous game tanks had passive defenses and lacked active defense abilities. Further, defense and offense are not equal in pvp, so trading them off equally, as they typically are in pve, doesn't amount to much in pvp.

Pure support roles are "situationally fun", but aren't fun as frequently as other more direct roles in rpg's for me. With Paul's stance on healing, i'm sure that tank classes aren't going to be all about running inbetween enemies and friendlies all day as their primary role. I'm sure that tanks are going to scale drastically from minimal to exceptional damage the longer a battle endures and the longer they survive (the tank's specialty). But in addition, tanks might have access to the widest selection of stuns, snares, and other effects that help defend and protect other friendly players within the Black Orc's influence. Rather than being a simple distraction, nuisance, or caster food on the field, I think a Black Orc is going to be just as intimidating as a dps or ranged class, just in a somewhat slower and more painful way. Uniquely, they'll probably be the only class that can charge into an enemy mess and focus on defense, actually being able to accomplish something for their team rather then just being focus fired and hacked up to bits in the process.

While it's largely speculation (too), I think tank classes are going to have the most weapon variety so far. Giving up a shield might be losing the fundamental strength of the Black Orc, but if the Black Orc is ignored, I could see the trade off as maximizing efficiency and getting enemy players to try to attack your now more vulnerable character. Still, I wouldn't see any tank class without a shield in their inventory, as I would think that most of their defense and defensive abilities would come from that iconic and practical item.

Of course, that's all just random wonderings, and lacks considerations to other things in the game that we don't know about.

They are almost always lousy damage dealers, very sad for the players that enjoy being in the think of things.

I think defense and offense should be a choice for a tank class during a fight. Much like switching from 1h+shield to 2h, I think there might be abilities designed for defense (blocks all attacks from the front for 3 seconds, costs x energy, y cooldown) and offense that will make you chose and pace yourself in battles to try and predict and accomidate what needs doing where. A Black Orc with a shield, getting pummeled and using defensive skills will obviously do horrible damage, but be able to absorb damage to great efficiency that scales higher with each opponent hitting them. Meanwhile, if the Black Orc is ignored, they can focus on a 2h weapon, executing combos with nasty stuns/snares on the ends of them and doing more damage/controling effects in a fight. Whether the class is defending or attacking though, they generate a lot of morale more practically than other classes that are more prone to dying, eventually allowing them to become monsters when they're allowed to survive and participate for too long in a battle.

That's how i'd like it anyway, based roughly on the vague discriptions we've heard. At this point, who knows. I'm not designing the game. :)

[Ken]

Well, since your post was so long (and I did read it), I'm too lazy to pick out what I had something to say about it.

So instead! I'm going to take all those things I had to say and make them into more an independent post.

Black Orc.
He'll be big. He'll have collision detection. An easy strafe and what not, and you can keep people back... At least 1. I'm sure "blocking" will be a very essential skill in tanking group PvP.

Taunt. You guys heard about the taunts yet? As of now, you taunt someone, and they do 50% less damage to everyone EXCEPT to the taunter. To the taunter that target still keeps his full potential in damage. The target can fight anyone else all he wants, but it'd be a better idea to just kill the taunter.

They've mentioned "fears and intimidations" but I haven't read into those...those sound interesting.

But without all that, and just down to the way the Black Orc will work. I imagine he'll have a lot of hp, a lot of armor, a lot of toughness, and a lot of little utilities and attacks. Low damage, very quick, leads into other damages (hence the combos). They describe it like...you use "Knee Bash" and it opens up "Elbow Smash" then that opens up "Head Crash" which would daze or stun that guy. Maybe there's some sort of interrupt that happens if anyone uses any abilities on you...that prevents you from taking that combo so far.

As for the Ironbreaker, they sound more like "As we fight, I'm going to crit you a lot more."
They sound as if they have the high defense, but their attacks are a lot more straight forward (like a dwarf), but the Black Orcs attacks are just nitty and gritty. Cheap shots.

Garthlik posted a list of current stats in the game, and one of them was "Toughness". Reduces damage from ALL SOURCES. Toughness has been in the Warhammer TT for a while. As far as I know anyway...I'm no old school warhammer fan. This is just what a lot of people are saying :)

So.
Between taunts.
Snares/dazes/stuns/possible fears&intimidations
Collision Detection
Being green
Toughness

I think the Black Orc is set as a very good tank in PvP and PvE.

There's an interview that has Mark Jacobs (I think it was him anyway) talking about if someone were to build their character up all tanking and stuff for PvE. Chooses his talents all over in defensive kind of things...they want that guy right there to be effective in PvP just as much as PvE.

Whether they'll accomplish the "just as much", I believe the tanks will be able to hold their own in PvP. Play their role.

And my hopes are that they keep with all of these ideas, improve them (if any improvements CAN be made), and see that they hold up to their goal.

Edit: Oh yea, and in the list Garthlik posted, it did have magic resistances. But toughness also covers magical damage, so I only see magic resistances being "icing on the cake" versus any specific sort of magic. If that makes any sense.

[Krulltak]

I'm hoping that as a tank class... the black orc will be the highest dmg dealing tank as it's description states. It is reffered to as an 'offensive tank'. Sure, it's damage won't be as high as say a choppa, but unlike a traditional tank, to protect the casters, instead of taunting, it fights back with tons of dirty moves, and then continues to pummle ya while yer down.

[Ripple]

I'm with you Krulltak, though I think from the description it seems like black orc will be all about disabling then killing one enemy at a time. Loads of stuns, snares, etc, and from what I hear about the taunt it sounds almost more useful for RvR than PvE. Supposedly, when taunted you will do 50% damage to everyone but the taunter, that would be lordly. According to Paul’s interviews every class will do good damage (some better than others). Sounds to me like the black orc is shaping up to be what I always thought a tank should be: The guy in the front who really makes you pay if you ignore him.

[Krulltak]

Aye, and about the pve and pvp bit, this game will focus more on pvp anyway.

[Lip]

ye i can see that..... "what! you ignorin me?? ME!!! take that an that muhahahahaha"

[Zyphr]

For the first week of checking the forums and reading up on all the stuff I dug up or found, I was trying to figure out what abilties would compare to some of the cheap stuff a black orc does in melee, how I'd be able to compete with another melee without knowing their abilities, then I had an epiphany, yes, I realized it was RvR and greenskins were on the evil guys side......anyways. :rolleyes:

Black Orcs sound like a monster class, a heavily armored wrecking ball of cheap shots, sounds like a good gimik to me.

[Boulvae]

The taunting ability alone makes a full party of these guys...a very, very fearful force to be reckoned with. Your sorrounded geting pummled while all of em except the one your attacking taunts you to the point where your doing craptacular damage let alone all the snares, knock downs and other abilities to make you their play thing, or more properly pronounced their b****.

I suddenly got an urge to wish the dwarves good luck, cause they'll need it.

[Krulltak]

I suddenly got an urge to wish the dwarves good luck, cause they'll need it.


Heh, while I don't doubt this, you have to remember that when you kill(slaughter) an Ironbreaker, they come back with uber grudge damage.

[NoneSuch]

That's why you've just gotta taunt those big boys , So they're forced to attack you. Don't fight back and focus on killing something else while all the nukers Blast him from behind killing the guy as fast as possible :p

[Nethunz]

my fear with the black orcs are that if any ranged class gets the ability to slow us down and out run us they'll do so and nuke us to death. But that's part of the game... Another fear of mine would how mounted combat would work Black orcs.

[Krulltak]

Not every class is getting mounted combat, nor de we officially know if it's in.

[NoneSuch]

I have a feeling mounted classes are going to be the tanks or the damage melee guys.

I guess it's going to be a skill tree you can learn - Get mounted abilities but lose some other combat ground attacks.

[Kinthral]

I think the emphasis on RvR that Mythic has for the game is going to be the big this that keeps all of the classes balanced, and at the same time very unique from one another, as we have seen so far from the lack of typical class stereotypes. The new classes are more hybridized/unique/bizarre than they have been in previous games, but they are all bringing something to the table, in most cases several things.

The Black Orc is a standard tank, but because the focus is on RvR it means that we get to use the same skills we use in PvE as we do in RvR and vice-versa. No more switching from sword & board to a two-hander just to fight players. Taunts are effective, collision detection is effective, stuns and disorients are effective. Aggro will work a lot like it does for PvE because you've got a guy to go through/around in order to get to the things you CAN kill.

Lack of pure healing classes means that we should be able to keep ourselves alive with minimal support instead of a setup like WoW's, where heals=PWN and no heals=death. No self heals obviously, so hopefully we have the stuns and armor to keep us from taking too much damage.

It looks good and I cant wait to hear more.

[Boulvae]

http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=813&limitstart=17&limit=1&limitstart=18

Not to mention that this little goody gets your hopes up.

[Hyrus]

Simmer Down doesn't strike me as a melee move. How does a tank snare everyone around him in a large radius? To me, that's a spell cloud effect, not a melee-er effect.

[Boulvae]

It still fills a role that he fills, and it still makes having atleast one of these guys around worthwhile.

[Hyrus]

If a morale ability is the reason that "one of these guys" should be in a group, the class is broken. Tanks having crowd control isn't bad, but making it function outside of how a melee combatant performs is. I'd expect control effects to come in the form of melee slices, bashes, or maybe quick jabs and body slams. Maybe there might be a battle roar that would increase the morale of nearby troops or something, but a PBAE snare that would be physically impossibly by anyone but a spell caster to create? I'll play a melee class to clash blades, not work my voodoo.

[Ken]

The way they've been talking about morale abilities (mainly whenever I first started reading up on this game), it seems more like morale abilities aren't the ONLY way a healer-type class can heal. Or the only way a tank can snare.

The morale abilities are just different than regular abilities, like say the Black Orc gets snares and stuff as abilities. Snares and dazes and hamstring and all that good jazz. He can use them on different people (like hamstring one guy, snare another, "bash" another to make him dazed), but he has a morale ability that does that for everyone around him.

They described morale abilities more like "If you're really doing that good in a fight, we want to give you something that gives you a little more edge, rather than just completely 1-shotting people with them."

So. In this case. I would say a snare morale ability is just an awesome version of the Black Orc's regular snare ability. I see a lot of morale abilities working in a similar fashion. But not limited to. Since they can think of some crazy stuff for morale abilities. Especially level 3 morale abilities.

Edit: Oh yea and response to the "not seeing it as melee-er" or whatever. Yea I see your point, but think of it more as a yell. You're in a battle and this big Black Orc is near you, and he just yells "SIMMER THE F____ DOWN!!!!!!" Not so scary in actuality (since everyone's hardcore in Warhammer, and it'd probably take more than that to scare anyone), but you can see where I'm pulling the idea from.

Technically, it can be considered some sort of magic. Without being magic.

[Boulvae]

There is another snare in there, but I still don't get which one is in tier 1.

But for it being considered magic, cause it's a morale thing you couldn't call it the effects of the waaagh magic.
And sorry if I came off as being arrogant with what I said, but I don't mean literally having a morale ability having him around worthwhile but I mean the role as tank distraction, or taunter, or 'IGNORE ME WILL YA!!!" type of crowd control tank which was the impression I got from this guy.

[Ken]

Ah, nah, my post was pretty much directed towards Hyrus.
I was also just speaking more in general, rather than any tiers in specific.

But yea, sorry Hyrus. I guess I was thinking you were saying something else. Seeing what you're saying now, yea I suppose you're sort of right, but in terms of balance I think it's cool. I'd pull from CoH/CoV if I knew about it, just to have some kind of relief of NOT pulling from WoW. But since it's the simplest example I can give...

The warrior was pretty melee, of course, and he does have a ranged attack. Charge. I consider it a ranged attack at least...he can charge right up to people (out of combat). Intercept could be used in-combat to keep from being kited.

Charge makes a little tiny bit more sense than an AoE snare, but I don't think it's that far behind if you think of it like a yell like I said in my last post.

I think I won't really care what they put in the game as long as it works. Unless they give Black Orcs laser swords or something... I think laser swords may be neat, but no thanks. I want to play Warhammer, and not "Like Warhammer, but not really!"

[Boulvae]

The black orc has a throwing ability in there to. he has a sheild specialization and an he's got a 2h (I think it's 2h) weapon specialization and many many morale drain effects. Heres his throwing ability.

http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=823&limitstart=27&limit=1&limitstart=28

And my post was directed at Hyrus...but this ones to you.

[Ripple]

Edit: Oh yea and response to the "not seeing it as melee-er" or whatever. Yea I see your point, but think of it more as a yell. You're in a battle and this big Black Orc is near you, and he just yells "SIMMER THE F____ DOWN!!!!!!" Not so scary in actuality (since everyone's hardcore in Warhammer, and it'd probably take more than that to scare anyone), but you can see where I'm pulling the idea from.

Technically, it can be considered some sort of magic. Without being magic.

Maybe not a shout, maybe more of the Black Orc making some sort of distraction (ie. banging his shield or throwing a fit) to make all of his enemies slow down and see what the hell is all the noise about.

[Ken]

Was just trying to show it's fitting without having to do with magic. So if you want to get specific, yea it can be anything...

[NoneSuch]

You could easily say the black orc calls out a mighty battle cry funneling his WAAAGH energies into his surrounding foe , stunning them for a few seconds . :p

Remember if an Orc believes in something long enough - It'll happen . If the black orc Thinks he's going to stun and shock the enemies around him , Then when he crys out his mighty battle cry his WAAGH energy really will do something.

[hogwaller]

What about buffs will he be able to roar like in most warhammer games like dow or moc and buff up his teammates

[mouldylock]

the area snare, people saying you couldn't do it with a shout reminded me of this clip of the tv programme "mind body and kickass moves" where a japanese kiai master shouts at people and makes them fall over etc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7FZjHAijc0k&mode=related&search
so it can be done although I worry about the credibily of this, as they might be playing along:p

[Ken]

Haha geez if you guys want to be all specific and logical about whether or not it is physically possible for a Black Orc to have an AoE snare...you guys go ahead.

But it's just a game! Have you guys really run out of things to talk about for the Black Orc?

If the Black Orc could shoot ninjas out of his nose, or something equally crazy, maybe then you could ask why or how... for this I would probably just say "cool" and move on to whether or not this will be overpowered.

NERDS! ;P

[Jaran]

Meh, the biggest fear I have for the Black Orc is that there will be too many people playing them. From what it looks like, the Black Orc will be defense-focused, and his damage will be combo-based. If you stand your ground and run combos on enemies, then they'll go down relatively quickly. If they're quick little guys who force you to move around too much, you'll be thrown for a loop.

In addition, casters will probably be a problem for the Black Orc. Now, having said that, this is one of the classes that I'm looking forward to the most. Of course, I can't make a decision as to what I'm going to play until all of the Classes have been announced for all of the races. For all I know, I may want to be a Dark Elf or something. :P

[Waffles]

I hope Black Orcs will be exactly what they are. Black Orcs.
The Biggest, strongest and meanest orc around. Eat up tons of damage, hit like a wrecking ball and generally look really mean! :evil:

[Aquinas]

a tank with alot of dirty moves, aka stuns, fear (cc abilities. you name it) with at least a minimum of 1-2 High Damage moves with rather longer cooldown.

[Thebeast9]

Fear:
That people not playing Black Orc will complain of the strong armor Black Orcs wear, and soon every one will have it (EQ2)

That after this stuff happens, all the Black Orcs become useless, becuase now everyone has their defence, but does more dmge

That all the people playing Black Orc still after the above two happens, always talk about the good old days, and complain about being nerfed

Hopes:
That they can actually be a "black" color

That they get bigger faster then Choppas

[Shapechanger]

Did you guys see the interview where the guy was the Black Orc? He said he was huge, everyone was afraid of him, and he learned it was for good reason when he finally did catch someone. He said he was really slow, but when you tangled with him he was taking you down.

5 dwarfs jumped him and he took out 3 before they got him.

[Krulltak]

Did you guys see the interview where the guy was the Black Orc? He said he was huge, everyone was afraid of him, and he learned it was for good reason when he finally did catch someone. He said he was really slow, but when you tangled with him he was taking you down.

5 dwarfs jumped him and he took out 3 before they got him.

Jesus Christ, where did you hear that?

Sounds just like they should sound,:D .

[Smachaz]

Jesus Christ, where did you heat that?

Sounds just like they should sound,:D .

I think that was in the Bible ;)

Took out 3 out of 5 dwarfs? Sounds like the kind of thing I'd brag about:)
Maybe a little imbalanced, considering there won't be a lot of Dwarfs to kill.

[Krulltak]

I think that was in the Bible ;)

Took out 3 out of 5 dwarfs? Sounds like the kind of thing I'd brag about:)
Maybe a little imbalanced, considering there won't be a lot of Dwarfs to kill.


Don't expect alot of orc players neither buddy;) .

And the keyword there was slow. When fighting this bugger, ya gotta get ahead of him, you gotta intercept him, you gotta mess up his combos and tie him up, and ya gotta blast his nearly indestructable arse from far away. And of course, learning how to mess up the Black Orc's combos will take time to learn in-game.

[Shapechanger]

Okay I found it:

This time I was a Black Orc. That meant I was very powerful and very slow. I ambled way up to the wall only to find that most folks don't want to mess with a Black Orc without overwhelming numbers. When I reached the armory, I found out why. Most of the action was at the gate lock on top of the wall where at least a dozen players on each side were slaughtering each other. I just stood in the armory and held it for the orcs. Every once in a while someone heading up top would see me and try their luck. Yeah, I crushed them. Eventually, of course, the dwarves realized that the steady trickle of points coming from the armory was putting the game out of reach and sent five players after me. I nailed three but some of those little buggers are fast.

He didn't say he was huge, I guess I inferred that by his strength. But he sounds HUGE!

[Smachaz]

Don't expect alot of orc players neither buddy;) .

And the keyword there was slow. When fighting this bugger, ya gotta get ahead of him, you gotta intercept him, you gotta mess up his combos and tie him up, and ya gotta blast his nearly indestructable arse from far away. And of course, learning how to mess up the Black Orc's combos will take time to learn in-game.

Meh, i don't mind being slow, if there that powerful, in fact, i didn't even think about it that way, not a lot of Greenskins=Rare=Good.

I just hope we don't have such a huge speed differences that a Goblin has time to go back to town and repair 2 times before i can get there...but when you read it, hes probably talking about the Engineers being fast, because of the Stiky bombs.

[Nethunz]

remember we do have the ability to slow down our opponents too... I don't mind being slow as long I can make my opponent slower then me through a skill or two.

the main fear of a black orc is going to be an engineer and bright wizard. Ranged DPS and overwhelming numbers are going to be the only things that black orcs really have to fear in PvP I bet.

i don't know about you guys but I'm thinking about heading over to the Chaos areas to fight as a noob because that area seems to be a better match for Black Orcs considering that humiez seem to be less likely to fight a black orc and they're made for more defensive combat.

[versuvius]

wrong thread ignore this

[Aquinas]

i thought orks and dwarfs...and chaos were the fave race...idiot little kids who like warhammer may play elves and slutty 13 year olds might do dark elves but i think orcs an dwarfs will be the faves

First of all, watch your language.

Second and lastly; What does this have anything to do with the topic of what your hopes and fears are with the Black Orcs?

[versuvius]

it ither has summat to do with the last post...or i answered the wrong thread

[Gorrr]

it ither has summat to do with the last post...or i answered the wrong thread
my greatest fear for BO is that Versuvius will roll one -_-
Jk.

[versuvius]

nope...dont get it...explain please lol

[Aquinas]

it ither has summat to do with the last post...or i answered the wrong thread

Still doesn't matter I am afraid, you should not use foul language and re-read that you have posted in the right section. Just the language thing is pretty important.

Yada Yada, Black Orcs seems to be a pretty "must have" kill target in groups because of their buffs/Debuffs which seems pretty good so far. Damage wise, pretty reasonable it seems?

[versuvius]

im hoping the black orks will be able to use the WAAAAAGH! in some way...like as you pointed out, buffs and debuffs, but AUTOMATIC!! an stadard black ork doesnt need to press a button on his arm to raise morale so why should these (the button thing is like a comparisson thingy not literal)

[Krulltak]

Still doesn't matter I am afraid, you should not use foul language and re-read that you have posted in the right section. Just the language thing is pretty important.

Yada Yada, Black Orcs seems to be a pretty "must have" kill target in groups because of their buffs/Debuffs which seems pretty good so far. Damage wise, pretty reasonable it seems?

Damage Wise they will do large amounts of damage depending on

A- What state is their enemy in (E.I. Stunned, knocked-down etc)

B- If they use the proper attacks on the enemy depending on the state they are in.

[Ripple]

That news is heartening. I don't see it as imbalanced, sounds like BOs are extremely powerful, but slow. My personal concept of what a BO should be is a class that if any non-melee centered class gets caught by one they're boned.
The key is out maneuvering them if think.


my greatest fear for BO is that Versuvius will roll one -_-
Jk.


That's my fear too, only I'm not kidding...
ok maybe a little.

[Bhazrak]

I'm not sure if I have any fears for being a Black Orc. I'd say the only thing could be getting nerfed because of our crazy underhanded abilities or whatever, but that could be said about any class when speculating upon.

It'll be fun to body-block your enemies, attempting to gain their attention, and having others finish off the majority of them while you pick on one or two yourself. Oh, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the odd 1 vs. 1 would play off as being one, as from their skill line up, Black orcs seem like they might be one of the best if that comes up while wandering in RvR territory.

[Sladex]

I don't really care how bad our DPS is, all I hope is that we have enough abilities to completely shut down our opponent and sort of "stunlock" them to death like the Rogues in WoW.

[Aquinas]

What I have seen so far is that as Krulltak pointed out, if X target is stunned and you do damage do it, you inflict alot more damage, and this is a pretty intresting move to make the BO's. Meaning if you have some stunlockers (Lets assume that Choppa's will have some sort of stun ability or two) being quick thinking as a BO to strike down the target behind you because he stunned and cause about 100+ extra damage (yes, its just a assumption, but oh well...)

I really really like BO's and how they seem to work. They taunt a player so they are focused on the Black Orc and they cause less damage on all targets around except the Black Orc. If you haven't seen some of the Black Orc moves or etc, here is a small preview what is to come;

http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=954&limitstart=158&limit=1&limitstart=159

However, bear in mind that these skills will be modified.

[versuvius]

slightly cheesey...

[Shapechanger]

I don't really care how bad our DPS is, all I hope is that we have enough abilities to completely shut down our opponent and sort of "stunlock" them to death like the Rogues in WoW.

It's more than highly unlikely we will see this. "Stunlock" was unpopular even in the aforementioned title, because it took the character control out of a players hands. It's not that Mythic would learn from Warcrafts stunlock lessons, per se - they have more and better lessons to draw from as it is.

Mythic always has had a stance on this anyways: consider the "confusion" spells in Camelot, which do not work on players because 'its no fun to lose control of your character. some players hate it', to paraphrase the ancient quote.. (Mahrin Skel? I cant recall who said that, but it was said)
Mythic experienced this issue further with CC in Camelot, with mezzes and stuns.

They are combating CC in WAR. I find it highly unlikely, pretty much unarguably unlikely, that you will see repeatable CC of any type. Bonk me on the head if I am wrong, but from all I've seen over the past half dozen years with Mythic, it's just not going to happen.

[Nethunz]

I don't really have any particular fears for the black orc, I mean he's going to be a beast in close combat, he's going to have some abilities to attract attention from away from the weaker members of his group, and his combo abilties look to be interesting.

[versuvius]

hell be the meat shield that fights back! with choppy vengance!

[Volkus]

Im expecting a pure tank class in the Black Orc. I noticed someone posted 'low but quick damage'? I believe that will be more the role of the Choppa. In my opinion a Black Orc'll be a big armoured killing machine determined to rage out and mutilate his enemy.

[Daris]

the Choppa is going to be high mid tempo damage. while the Blorc is a debuffer so fits low-quick damage

[Ken]

the Choppa is going to be high mid tempo damage. while the Blorc is a debuffer so fits low-quick damage

Yea I believe I was the one who said low but quick damage, along with maybe one or two others I don't know... But yea I pretty much agree with Daris here.

Except I see the Choppa more like medium/moderate damage, but quick. Making him a high DPS career.

That's not exactly something you can explain, though, so that question will have to be answered for those who go into beta, and those who have to wait for release... The speed/damage of the Choppa (and even the Black Orc, I'd say) is one of those "have to see it for yourself to understand"

[versuvius]

black orc doing low damage...isnt he the biggest and the baddest of em all?? this is as illogical as netziimui or whatever hes called saying someting in english (known him 11 years and still cant understad a word he says)

[Krulltak]

You guys are gettin is all wrong. The Black orc will have fairly powerful special attacks he can use once he has disabled his enemy. Powerful attacks, but they aren't frequent.

The choppa will have constant, moderate DPS attacks he will use at a fast pace to get his morale up. Once he's got morale up, he is allowed more powerful attacks, and even uber powerful attacks that will just slaughter somone in one blow, but get rid of all his morale as well, so your gonna have to watch it:)

[Ken]

I didn't know that about the Choppa, but overall I was talking more about "general damage". The general type attacks you would use frequently, excluding their specialties and what not.

Specialties would throw off any kind of comparison. Choppa is DPS. Black Orc is more "control". Granted Black Orcs can do damage. But Choppa might have a little "control".

I'm getting really pumped about playing Black Orcs. And it's strange...the mechanics of it follow what I've played in the past. A debuffer class. A "control" class. But I've always played gnome-types... and I've always played caster-types...

Although, the only MMO I've exclusively played is WoW. I enjoyed playing the rogue class a lot, in fact it's made me like melee classes a little more because of it. It had a lot of control, and I just enjoyed it all around...

I liked my warlock, because he could take loads of damage. I geared him out with all this stamina gear since mid 20's, and have used my imp since 30's (Imp gives a +Stamina aura to you and party members). There was a talent that gave 15% more stamina. My warlock was a beast.

So maybe that's why Black Orcs appeal to me so much. They're two things I've learned to like in an MMO mixed into one. Except my Black Orc won't live in a broken world, like my rogue and warlock. RIP Klemwinkle and Babyface. :(

[legoklods]

Just wanted to tell ya that the blac orc isn't the greatest damage dealer in the orcs and goblins army. A savage big 'un is way more destrucktive than the black orc, even though the black orcs are the most hostile of all orcs.
;) That was today's lesson about black orcs...

[Krulltak]

Just wanted to tell ya that the blac orc isn't the greatest damage dealer in the orcs and goblins army. A savage big 'un is way more destrucktive than the black orc, even though the black orcs are the most hostile of all orcs.
;) That was today's lesson about black orcs...


Are you talking about the Tabletop? I can imagine, savage orcs are a damn beast of a unit on the TT, also this justifies the addition of the choppa. WHile he may not be a savage orc, he is as crazy as one, and at high level he will be a big 'un.:)

[NoneSuch]

Well savage orcs are absoloutly insane , but Black orcs > them.

Could you imagine a bunch of naked nutters trying to fight heavly armoured black orcs with huge swords ?(=

[EngraDeathsword]

Let's make a rule that all the Destructive forces Tanks will be offencive and Order forces tanks will be pansy tanks

[Nethunz]

I can roll with that, cause we all know that Green Iz Best

[Ken]

If you guys are serious, I hope you die a thousand times in a thousand different fires.

[NoneSuch]

What? Serious about Alliance being Pansy tanks?

Yup we're serious about that.

[Krulltak]

Ummmm, you do realize just how powerful an Ironbreaker's gromril armor is, right?

[thatguy]

Hopes:

My first hope is that the black orc will be as effective as a damage taker with and without a shield. I kind of want to be that orc that wades through a sea of blood and gore wielding an oversized axe and having a few choppa's, squig herders, and shamans following my lead. The one giant orc that takes an unbelievable amount of damage and still stands while he cuts through one foe at a time.

My second hope is that the debuffing abilities of the black orc will indeed be detrimental when they all get out there. Reduction in damage dealing, reduction in movement speeds, blinding attacks, tons of stunning attacks, maybe even some immobilizing attacks. Thats what I want to see in the debuffing. Ive always liked the idea that if your a tank you should "power down" your opponents but I really havnt seen that done very well in any MMO. Also Ild like to see that multiple black orc debuffs stack or at least add onto eachother.

Fears:

My first fear is that group compositions will be a very big deal as they became in just about every other MMO and thus taking multiple black orcs might be detremental to the PVP team you do Scenarios with.

My second fear is that black orcs, like many other tank style classes in MMOs, will be extremely gear dependant. I know that Mythic's already said its not going to be a gear dependant game but I still have my doubts.

[Gurkresh]

My first fear is that group compositions will be a very big deal as they became in just about every other MMO and thus taking multiple black orcs might be detremental to the PVP team you do Scenarios with.

Suppose that you have a group of 5 black orcs. They meet a group of 5 witch hunters. You know who I put my money on. :D

My second fear is that black orcs, like many other tank style classes in MMOs, will be extremely gear dependant. I know that Mythic's already said its not going to be a gear dependant game but I still have my doubts.

Mythic really gave the impression up to now that the (Cool-looking) / (Stats) ratio of gear should be greater than many MMOs out there. To what extent, I can't really comfort you about that, I'm totally clueless. Character customization is definitely the way to go with gear as far as I'm concerned, I'm really TIRED of looking like 45% of the other members of my class in WoW.

... why haven't I canceled yet? Oh right, I payed for still a good chunk of time...

[Ken]

What? Serious about Alliance being Pansy tanks?

Yup we're serious about that.

You know...if I didn't know any better, I'd say you were a WoW player, and most likely played Horde. It's actually even more tough to call this one though...but maybe WoW was your first MMO, or your first MMO you played for the longest amount of time. So getting over Horde/Alliance terminology and Alliance being pansies is kind of tough. Or maybe it's just an MMO you played the most of RECENTLY. Making the use of Alliance and Horde a hard habit to break (when comparing to "Evil side" to "Good side"), but you fail to realize...

This is not WoW. Order are not pansies. If they were pansies, they'd have already surrendered at the thought of being outnumbered 3:1 by the forces of Destruction. This is their fight to survive, and they're going to do their hardest to accomplish that.

Ironbreakers are going to kick a lot of . I'll be playing Destruction...but the classes we've seen on Order are far from pansies. Save that for when the la-dee-da Elves start being revealed.

So I'll let my original comment stand...if anyone here truly is serious about thinking Order's tanks are "pansy tanks". Die a thousand times in a thousand fires.

[NoneSuch]

Oh dear I see I've discovered someone without a sense of humour :( Or a knowledge of sarcasm.. :eek:

[Krulltak]

Ken, Order are indeed not pansies, because this is Warhammer, and EVERYONE is a baby-killing arsehole.................but I'm pretty sure having the 500 pound arm of a black orc slamming into your face is not somthing most normal humans would survive. Unlike Chaos, whom are granted near demi-god like powers, the Imperials don't have the kind of power to survive such a blow.


HOWEVER, fools, because this is an mmo, balance must be made, and therefore, you won't have overpowered orcs running around one-shotting all the humies or you won't have elves dodging 99.9% of all attacks at them, or Engineer cannons blowing Destruction toons to peices in one hit. This is an MMO, therefore, a balance must be made to make the game reasonable.

Also, this is Warhammer, and NO ONE, including ELVES of any flavor, is a pansy.

[Gurkresh]

NoneSuch is fueling the Greenskin pride (these -are- the greenskin forums after all), I really don't believe he actually means that in the game the Order tanks will actually be "weaker" statistically.

... ... GREENSKINZ PRIDE!

WAAAAAAARGH!

Edit: Oh and I am glad we have elves on our side;

'Da da'k elfz kill wif' style, I kill wif' choppas.

[Krulltak]

There is no R in WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

.....................ya stupid git.

[NoneSuch]

You sure I can't play a pansy orc with a flower in my Squig hair ? )_= :(

[NoneSuch]

NoneSuch is fueling the Greenskin pride (these -are- the greenskin forums after all), I really don't believe he actually means that in the game the Order tanks will actually be "weaker" statistically.

... ... GREENSKINZ PRIDE!



Dem Hummes N' Pointy ears arr all pansies , snot luvin' weaklin's . Gud food for me squiggy ere' thou.

Soft for him to chew en' so he don't hurt his tuffs.

[Krulltak]

You sure I can't play a pansy orc with a flower in my Squig hair ? )_= :(


Yes. Orcs iz made fer fightin an' winnin, not pickin pozies and being panzees like dem skinny elf boyz.

If you feel like wearing a flower in your hair to look stylish, sure, but being a "pansy" will only end up getting you killed.

Orc society is about survival of the fittest, my man, survival of the fittest. The strongest lead, and the strongest get what they want, while the weakest provide what the strongest want.

Also, there is nothing in the world an orc loves more than a good foight, because orcs were built for war. Long as he has had one or two good scraps in his life the orc will die happy.

[Black Hammer]

Black Orcs might be offensive, but when you come against us Ironbreakers it'll be like smashing your flat, ugly faces into an anvil. Good luck!

[Gurkresh]

There is no R in WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

.....................ya stupid git.

I invite you to try writing the sound someone makes when yelling from the depths of his lungs in french, you might do a mistake too. :rolleyes:

But point taken. I'll remember the english, canon way writing Waaaagh.

[NoneSuch]

Black Orcs might be offensive, but when you come against us Ironbreakers it'll be like smashing your flat, ugly faces into an anvil. Good luck!

Last time I'z smashed me face in to da Blacksmiths anvil as a bet, Da anvil smashed just befoore me face did.

I wonz lots of tuffs fur dat, Lost... a few aswell.

[Krulltak]

Black Orcs might be offensive, but when you come against us Ironbreakers it'll be like smashing your flat, ugly faces into an anvil. Good luck!


This is an mmo. Let your skills do the talking, not your mouth.

Also, from what I remember of the reports of some guy from the press playing WAR, and from the Black Sun Boyz' report, the Black Orc..........kicks arse, as does the Choppa.

At first, while going sword n' board , Tamarok lost to the Ironbreaker, but then he took out ye olde two-hander and reports of having "slaughtered" the dwarf.........and then Ironbreaker comes back with his damage increased due to "grudge".

Then he played a Choppa, and he defines it as a "Dwarf disposal unit".

Then the guy from the press was playing a Black Orc, and reports of having been ganged up on by 5 dwarfs........he killed three before going down.

[NoneSuch]

Er krull.. I think he was typing in Dwarf talk.

[Ken]

Actually NoneSuch if you WEREN'T serious about that then it'd mean I lack knowledge of sarcasm AND humor...since I had originally said "If you guys are serious about that. Die."
Then I got the reply "Serious about that? Yup we're serious." (Which could be sarcastic. That's not really my specialty.)
So I elaborated why I said what I said. And then ended it with "So if you're really serious about it. My original comment stands. Die."

And I'm just not a fan of elves. I have no clue what kind of stuff Elves will bring to the table in this game, but I think they'll be at the end of my "alt list". And even then I don't see me having a lot of elf alts...

I skimmed through the other replies to my comment (and NoneSuch's), so just to shorthand it. If you were trying to explain to me why Order isn't pansies. Reread what I said.

That's my "fingers in the ears, lalalalala, listen to me!" post.

[Gemini]

Guys, this is getting WAY off topic. Lets stop bickering and move back to what we want and don't want to see about the black orcs, shall we?

As I said before, I wanna fight dirty. I wanna stun em, cripple em, and make em bleed from every artery. I wanna silence caster's with a slice to the throat, and then smash them with my spikey shield. As an ironbreaker charges at me with his pathetic hammer, I want to slam my spikey shoulder armor into his gut and then kick him where the sun don't shine. I want slam the hilt of my choppa into a pretty boy elf's face to daze him as my choppa and gobbo allies destroy him.

[Black Hammer]

Oi, we ar'n't bickerin' lad, we're jus clearin' up a few things. Like how Choppas ar'n't good enough tae lick a Hammerers boot and Black Orcs shouldn't tussle with Ironbreakers if they don't want a face full of gromril-clad fists. Like an anvil and hammer, the Dwarfish infantry'll pin 'em and smash 'em and send that WAAGHnonsense back tae the swamplands. It i'n't a boast lads, when a Dwarf sets down a Grudge it's a guarantee!

[thatguy]

People are entitled to their opinions but lets show some maturity and not turn this into the WoW forums where you see nothing but "Nerf this" "this is overpowered" "I can WTF PWN u without trying" etc, etc, etc.

Some Ideas I had for the debuffing side of the Black orc. Just about everything will need more orcish names though

War cry: The black orc breaths deep then bellows out a clan war cry, demoralizing all opponents in range. Lowers damage output by X% for Y seconds.
Fearfull presence: After a war cry the black orc looks directly into a targeted opponents eyes, causing fear. The opponent must run away as fast as possible in the most direct route for X seconds.
Sand in the eyes: The black orc reaches down and takes a pile of dirt/sand or whatever, throwing into the targeted opponents face (or perhaps make it a cone attack). The effect reduces attack accuracy by X% for Y amount of time.
'eadbutt: The orc rears back then thrusts himself forward, slamming his skull into the targeted enemies. Stuns or knocks down the opponent for 3 seconds.
Kick 'em in the yarbels!: The black orc does one hard kick to the opponents groin, stunning them for 1 second before they are knocked down for X amount of time.
Tears of scarlet: The black orc cuts a wide swath with his choppa and cuts into the enemies eyebrows, making blood flow down into his eyes. Blinds the opponent for X seconds.
Disarming blow: The black orc makes an attack, slamming his choppa into the opponents hand and forcing him to drop his weapon or be unable to use a weapon due to the wracking pain. The opponent is considered disarmed for X seconds.
kick em while theyre down!: After a knockdown attack the black orc does a hard kick to the targeted enemies abdomen, reducing their chance to dodge attacks by X% for Y seconds after they stand.

Those are the ones I came up with off the top of my head

[vortanovic]

I'm really looking forward to being a wall. The Greenskins want to capture a point across a bridge? Well, I'll jump infront and start pushing. Can't get past me in either direction. Assuming the teammates follow behind we can cross the bridge even under fire (as long as I don't die). That just sounds like fun to me. Being the wall :)

[Madman]

Fear - There will be too many Black Orcs and not enough damage dealers. It seems more people want to be BO than Choppas. A good balance of all classes is needed. Other than that the Black Orcs look great :D

[NoneSuch]

Mad to be honest If you check the polls only like 80 or so more people say they'll play black orc, I know this dosn't show the big picture atall but go check the alliance poll the figures are all over and one class has 200+ more players wanting to play it compared to the others.

Greenskins are pretty well balanced, but aye I do think we'll see more black orcs just like in most mmo's the warrior classes are most popular.

[Madman]

Mad to be honest If you check the polls only like 80 or so more people say they'll play black orc, I know this dosn't show the big picture atall but go check the alliance poll the figures are all over and one class has 200+ more players wanting to play it compared to the others.

Greenskins are pretty well balanced, but aye I do think we'll see more black orcs just like in most mmo's the warrior classes are most popular.





Witchhunter is a good example, but yea from the looks of the Greenskin poll they seem pretty well balanced.

[Ken]

I don't really see that ever being a problem Madman.

It's one thing if you're out looking for a small group, and YOUR GROUP doesn't get enough damage dealers....but there will always be lots of people who will play ______.

One server might have a lot of [this one thing], but there will always be enough people playing a certain class or race for it to be considered "enough".

Besides. Squig Herder and Shaman seem to hold their own in damage as well. Their "full potentials" will never reach the Choppa's "full potential" of course. But even if only 20 people on the entire server chose a Choppa, that'd mean you got a ton of Black Orcs, Squig Herders, and Shamans. Stuns and dazes. Ranged DPS. Healer/Damage.

[Black Hammer]

I'd be more worried about people playing the Goblin classes, but even then I don't think imbalance will be much of a problem.

[NoneSuch]

Oh god I hope there's a ton of goblins , they're so cute.

[Glubtrak]

Internet logic tells me that Black Orcs could potentialy be the lowest populated class on the orc side. Most people want to play a class that can do lots o damage. Lets look at the classes.

Choppa. Class that can do lots o damage and is a berserker to boot.
Squig Herder. Pet classes are always popular
Shaman. Only magic class on greenskins, population could be similar to Black orcs
Black Orc. Tank class, lets face it most people want to do massive damage themselfs and not help others to do it.

Of course, the classes could balance each other out over time when and if people find out that every class can do damage and hold their own but i wouldn't bet my teeth on it.

[Madman]

Well i guess I don't have any fears for Black Orcs anymore :rolleyes:

[Krulltak]

Glubtrak, while Tank classes were indeed not popular in other games, This is WAR, and they are adding many new twists and gimmicks to every single class to make them completly unique. The Black Orc isn't your traditional tanker, as he can take a beating and beat back just as 'ard if he had to.

[Ken]

I'd be more worried about people playing the Goblin classes, but even then I don't think imbalance will be much of a problem.

If you read an article Gamespot did on the January press event, the Goblin classes were very fragile against any "angry dwarfs". They really can't take a beating. However, the classes will most likely have utilities that will balance that out.

Plus this game's PvP seems pretty group-centered (that's how I've interpreted it anyhow). So I'm sure they're balancing out group PvP.

[Black Hammer]

If you read an article Gamespot did on the January press event, the Goblin classes were very fragile against any "angry dwarfs". They really can't take a beating. However, the classes will most likely have utilities that will balance that out.

Plus this game's PvP seems pretty group-centered (that's how I've interpreted it anyhow). So I'm sure they're balancing out group PvP.

Oh, I know they'll be balanced gameplay-wise, I mean I hope people decide to play them in general. It's hard to decide to play a scrawny little imp when you could be a huge bruiser.

[Glubtrak]

Glubtrak, while Tank classes were indeed not popular in other games, This is WAR, and they are adding many new twists and gimmicks to every single class to make them completly unique. The Black Orc isn't your traditional tanker, as he can take a beating and beat back just as 'ard if he had to.


Yes, i know that. You don't need to tell me what the Black Orc will be able to do. Many people will STILL be influenced by the labels that classes are given. The word Tank alone will make a big difference because most people don't really bother to get to know a class in detail. They think "urgh, Tank? That means i have to trade DPS for for more HPs and armor. I wanna chop things up! Hm choppa? Perfect!"
Thats not my opinion, it's just the way things are. People prefer pure DPS classes.

[Aetherine]

Yes, i know that. You don't need to tell me what the Black Orc will be able to do. Many people will STILL be influenced by the labels that classes are given. The word Tank alone will make a big difference because most people don't really bother to get to know a class in detail. They think "urgh, Tank? That means i have to trade DPS for for more HPs and armor. I wanna chop things up! Hm choppa? Perfect!"
Thats not my opinion, it's just the way things are. People prefer pure DPS classes.

That's just betting on the idiocy of the masses to prove your point. And while they sure CAN be dumb..

I'm of the opinion that the class won't suffer anymore than any other class in WAR. Tanking doesn't have to be about just the percentile of damage reduction you have and how many more HP's the healer can afford to let you lose before you need to rotate to the next group of clerics. Disabling your opponent (fightin' dirty) is supposed to work just as well.

That's assuming the design theme for WAR pans out, obviously.

[Glubtrak]

That's just betting on the idiocy of the masses to prove your point. And while they sure CAN be dumb...

It's not that they are dumb. They are just ignorant. And im not betting on their idiocy, im betting on how it has been in almost all games that can be played online. Maybe it's that pure dps classes are simpler and more straight forward. They don't have to invest that much time in their class but still have fun and get decent results. Any why not? At least that's what i think.

I'm of the opinion that the class won't suffer anymore than any other class in WAR. Tanking doesn't have to be about just the percentile of damage reduction you have and how many more HP's the healer can afford to let you lose before you need to rotate to the next group of clerics. Disabling your opponent (fightin' dirty) is supposed to work just as well.

I know, i have read the newsletters too and your pretty much saying the same thing to me as Krulltak. The very label is enough to drive people away.

That's assuming the design theme for WAR pans out, obviously.

Indeed

[Aetherine]

Eh, I'd rather it drive away certain people. I mean, if you're driven away by the title a class has, well damn. Go play a Choppa. Or a Dark Elf. Bloody NE. >_>;


Looking at how things are supposed to work (ability previews, developer statements, ect..) I can't imagine DPS being any simpler in WAR than a Tank. It seems like it'd be the same investment of time, as opposed to comparisons like a Fighter in WoW (debuffs and burst damage), Warrior in EQ (not touching this one!), Stalkers/Corruptors (aka ganking) and Brutes (SMASH!)..

[Talsigore]

Hope: That a Black Orc makes a good PvP partner for my fragile Shaman .

Fear: If I was order, I definately would fear Black Orcs!

[Glubtrak]

Eh, I'd rather it drive away certain people. I mean, if you're driven away by the title a class has, well damn. Go play a Choppa. Or a Dark Elf. Bloody NE. >_>;

Aye

Looking at how things are supposed to work (ability previews, developer statements, ect..) I can't imagine DPS being any simpler in WAR than a Tank. It seems like it'd be the same investment of time, as opposed to comparisons like a Fighter in WoW (debuffs and burst damage), Warrior in EQ (not touching this one!), Stalkers/Corruptors (aka ganking) and Brutes (SMASH!)..


One can only hope so, your class is always as good as how much time you are ready to invest though.

With that said, i'd like to tell our dwarf friends a little message.

"Wez the orcs an yuz iz not"

[Aetherine]

Hope: That a Black Orc makes a good PvP partner for my fragile Shaman .

Fear: If I was order, I definately would fear Black Orcs!

*point*

Hey, I know you!


My greatest hope is for a way to taunt players, without forcing them to do anything. The generalized MMO/MUD phrasing of taunt, where the foe attacks you instead of little grotz boyz like Tals there. Incentive-based taunting, kinda.

As for a fear? Well, I really do need good-looknig armor..

[Talsigore]

My greatest hope is for a way to taunt players, without forcing them to do anything. The generalized MMO/MUD phrasing of taunt, where the foe attacks you instead of little grotz boyz like Tals there. Incentive-based taunting, kinda.

Sounds like you've got this, I'd have to say Black Orc taunt looks like the best MMO taunt I've ever seen (even better then WoW Pally taunt).

[Gemini]

Sounds like you've got this, I'd have to say Black Orc taunt looks like the best MMO taunt I've ever seen (even better then WoW Pally taunt).

To elaborate, the taunts/detaunts effect hate levels and do things incentive things, so they can be used for PvE or PvP/RvR.

Gobbo detaunt: http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=99999999&page=inline&catid=17&id=935&limitstart=139&limit=1&limitstart=130
Black Orc taunt:
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=99999999&page=inline&catid=17&id=960&limitstart=164&limit=1&limitstart=165

So, if you REALLY want to not beat up that black orc right now, and go for that shammy, you can... but... You ain't gonna be doing your group much good by doing so. Of course, you could still do things like stun the gobbo, so if he detaunts you, and the black orc taunts you, you can still make yourself somewhat useful.

[Okrot]

Hope: WAAAGH!!!

Fear: Kittens.

[Krulltak]

Hey wait a minute, what all this weedy "fear" stuff yall talkin 'bout? Since when the hell do orcs fear anything?! Weedy runts!

[NoneSuch]

I'z Fear Da Warboss , he'd be bigger n' tuffer than me.

[Krulltak]

I'z Fear Da Warboss , he'd be bigger n' tuffer than me.

No, no, no, you don't "fear" the Warboss, or anything for that matter, you only respect the Warboss, because he is da biggest and da strongest, but it is literally impossible for an orc to actually fear anything, or have pity for that matter.

[NoneSuch]

Psh , Orcs definatly do feel fear and pain for that matter .. just not very well , skulls a bit thick (=

But seriously though - If orcs didn't feel fear they wouldn't run all the time.. *grumbles* My orcs always scram from those chaos boys on the table top.

[Krulltak]

Psh , Orcs definatly do feel fear and pain for that matter .. just not very well , skulls a bit thick (=

But seriously though - If orcs didn't feel fear they wouldn't run all the time.. *grumbles* My orcs always scram from those chaos boys on the table top.


That isn't fear, and no, they do not feel pain. At all, and no fear either. It has been stated in official lore.

And as for retreating, well, they respect the strong, and if they know they are on the verge of being beaten and the enemy is winning, they retreat, so it don't count at beat, because Orc's have a very high pride and try to avoid beating defeated as much as possible.

[NoneSuch]

I've definatly read that orcs feel some sort of pain , but it's not the same as humans feel.

I also don't believe the " they respect the enemy" rubbish :p Orcs love to fight , anything and everything and yes they do have pride and a pretty massive ego but that surley keep em' fighting for longer. I suppose they could have the " Day's bigger n' better than us" complex

But orcs respecting something which isn't a greenskin? (= Seems hard to believe

[Oggzy]

But orcs respecting something which isn't a greenskin? (= Seems hard to believe

Orcs respek annytin' dat givs 'em a tuff foight! 'Cuz annytin' dat can giv an orc a tuff foight's is mebbe a only a little less tuff dan an orc. Jus' a little bit.

Point is, Orcs love fighting, and if they find someone that lets them keep fighting for a real long time, well, then they're not so bad as far as pinkie standards go.

[NoneSuch]

You know one of my fears is people seeing them as some form of "protection" class , People talk as if Black orcs want to "help" and protect other orcs while they attack the enemies.

I see it more as a Black orcs want to hurt the enemies he's fighting as much as possible , and if that just so happens to help his allies it's purley by coincidence. The codex describes black orcs as simply not caring about the other types of orcs / goblins and seeing them as useless weaklings which if they die or get killed is purley down to them being runty small boys.

I'd hate people t osee them as a "helping" class or anything like that

[Oasis]

yea black orcs just becuase they're the tank class doesnt mean they cant get a huge choppa and kill everyone :???: hope-um... fear-spiky bits on them

[Steel*Faith]

There's no honor, or respect among greenskins.

Orcs can be temporarily afraid, but their overwhelming need to fight can quickly break them out of that. I think the only fear Greenskins have is not being able to fight anymore, that's why they run when they know "we'z allz gonna die!"

" If We'z run now, we'z can fight again anoth'a day!" lol love that line from Dawn of War.

[thatguy]

I think if people are expecting tanks designed for protection and buffing/healing classes theyre going to be sadly mistaken. If you look at the WAR class explanations youll see 1 major theme. There is no passive play in this game, that concept is for WoW, EQ, and other games. Every class is designed to be aggressive, warrior types in some way or another.

Now granted the game may evolve differently given time as many other games have but for now tanking, healing, buffing and such is not what its all about, its about fighting your enemy and each class does that in a different way.

[Gemini]

Now granted the game may evolve differently given time as many other games have but for now tanking, healing, buffing and such is not what its all about, its about fighting your enemy and each class does that in a different way.

While this is undeniably true, you must keep in mind with the nature of WAR's taunts, which work for both PvP and PvE, a tank will be very much able to protect the casters by keeping people targetted on himself. But I do agree that it wont be their only job by any means, possibly not even their primary job, depending on the class. I see the KoTB and maybe the Chosen One filling a more standard, but still original and fun, role of tanking. But who knows, maybe not? We'll just have to wait and see...

[thatguy]

True, and speaking of evolution of gameplay I wonder how powerful the black orcs debuffing powers will be in comparison to PVE stuff and how they will evolve as the game does. In EQ the game eventually evolved to the point where you had to have a shaman, enchanter, or bard for slows just so the cleric could keep your tank alive. If the debuffing side of the black orc is really powerful then the game might evolve into a game where you have to take a black orc with you to accomplish certain dungeons/raids. I suppose that could be a hope for us black orcs and a fear for other classes.

[Kidd]

I just hope that the Blorc can DPS, and that they can dual wield, but if they can't at least we get Great Choppas

[Black Hammer]

I just hope that the Blorc can DPS, and that they can dual wield, but if they can't at least we get Great Choppas


You want the Black Orc to be a Choppa, but barring that you'll settle for Choppas?

[NoneSuch]

I think alot of us want a black orc , Rather than a tank.

I mean Black orcs are all about ripping into the enemy and cuttinh things down with the hardest hitting weapons , or heck anything which tickles there fancy. Yea they do wear alot of armour , but they shouldn't be about taking damage that's not what blorcs do.

While I'm sure we're going to be happy playing tank , I'd hate to feel like i'm waving a nerf stick. Blorcs should be able to do atleast worthwhile damage on our enemies.

And yea.. using Great choppa's .. Er Cleava's what I like to call em' should make up for it.

[Kazok]

I want the black orc to stand out as being very different to the Choppa. People with a real thirst to do damage should look to that and not have unreasonable expectations that the black orc will be able to do absolutley everything. I want to tank, I want to be the big guy that gets in your face, controlling the action, and taking a beating using any and every means to get you down. I don't really care about personal glory, what matters is that my group wins, I'm quite happy to kick people in the jibblies letting the Choppas do the really big numbers.

I also hope that with the right setup the black orc has comparable tanking ability with the other tank classes. I'd hate to encounter situations like in WoW:TBC where even with the improvements to paladin and druid tanking you still absolutley want a warrior to handle the nastiest things in the game.

What worries me about the blakc orc is that Mythic repeat some of Blizzard's design choices and make end game NPCs immune to a vast swathe of debuffs and CC. Certainly in WoW stuns, fears and so on just don't work on a vast number of things, and by the looks of it that would hurt the Black Orc rather a lot. I have high hopes that Mythic won't be that lazy in their design.

I guess those are PvE worries, so far I'm not really concerned about the PvP side of it, they look great in that respect.

[Stakbok]

One of my main hopes for the Black Orc class, is mainly more for the mechanics of fighting. Like I'd like to see their attacks very much brutish and reckless, like what you would expect from this class.

I can't really think of a fear, other than just fearing them completely sucking. But that's pretty general, so yeah.

[Oasis]

well..one major thing that will separate blorks from choppas are the spells and ability..i hope but either way black orks>choppas so everything is alright :)

[Dorin]

Well, Im leaning to the Black Orc, as I see them as being the meat wall. Id leave the big numbers to the choppas for melee. Id hope they could hold their own, but its really about getting the enemy to focus their attention on me while my allies rain down on them

[Krulltak]

well..one major thing that will separate blorks from choppas are the spells and ability..i hope but either way black orks>choppas so everything is alright :)


Uhhhhhh, dude, no. If the Black Orc is going to be an overpowered juggernaught that can do everything, even DPS, than you are thinking ludicrous. He is a tank, and while this is WAR, and all classes have noticable DPS, the Choppa is a pure DPS class, and he will still out DPS the Black Orc for MMO balance reasons. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

And sure, the lore says Black Orcs are better, but if you look at the tabletop, you will notice a Savage Orc regiment (and considering the Choppa is just about as wild and mad as a Savage Orc) seems to cause alot more damage than a Black Orc regiment normally does.;)

[Heme]

I may be a little late to comment on the "Black Orcs want to help other orcs" subject, but the way I perceive the Black Orc to want to tank is to make sure the enemy knows just what he's going up against. It's not about helping that weak little gobby, it's showing that HE controls how the fight will go, and the enemy better damn well know it, or a cleava will be lunged in his back to help him understand the concept of "I'm the big orc, you fight me".

[NoneSuch]

Ugh , Black orcs are simply brutal , uncaring and dirty fighters. I don't mind them being the tanks , but aslong as people don't get this idea that they somehow care about other orcs . There's even a rule where they'll ignore the other weaker boys running away.

All There abilties should focus around trying to keep the enemy fighting them, Black orcs want to be in the thick of it .

Also krull choppa isn't as wild or as savage as a savage orc , he isn't naked and actually uses a choppa , rather than a piece of wood or bone (= Choppa's more berzerk and ferocious though .

[Krulltak]

Well, yeah, he is more "civilized" than a Savage Orc, but he is more berserk and ferocious than other "regular" orcs, but the Savage is the only thing from the TT with which the Choppa can be compared to. I'd wager a Choppa fights just as wildly as a Savage..........I know mine will.

[Smashin]

Black orcs do da smashin and bashin! choppas ave wez i don'nut killz!

- Smashin

[Cats]

i have no idea what you just said.

[versuvius]

he says we have big weapons and choppin stuff makes him nuts, i think

[Nethunz]

well, actually I believe he said that "Black Orcz are the biggest and toughest and have big weapons and the choppas can kill anything they don't kill."

Its just a guess really.

[Ripple]

Black orcs do da smashin and bashin! choppas ave wez i don'nut killz!

- Smashin


Black orcs do the smashing and bashing! Choppas have what I don't kill!

-Ripple, orc translator

[Cats]

o wow, that was amazing...the shroud of doubt has been lifted...

[Krulltak]

Hopfully, eventually, you can specialize towards mounted combat and be as cool as this (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110209157&orignav=13) guy

[Gorge]

Hopfully, eventually, you can specialize towards mounted combat and be as cool as this (http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110209157&orignav=13) guy

Come on now, no one will EVER be as cool as Gorbad Ironclaw. He was the biggest, baddest warlord of all orc kind.

[Black Hammer]

Yeah he was!

[versuvius]

wasnt grimgor?

[Krulltak]

Grimgor was the most physically powerful, but not the most succesful as he never sieges any major cities.

[Gorge]

Grimgor was the most physically powerful, but not the most succesful as he never sieges any major cities.

Gorbad didn't just siege cities, he ended them.

[versuvius]

who was the end of him though?

[Krulltak]

who was the end of him though?


It is not known, but there is no doubt that he was very powerful.

[versuvius]

be a dwarf then...

[NoneSuch]

Psh , I'm betting most orc Warbosses end by getting into Bad headbuttin' competitions.

I'm going to guess grimgor is going to die by attempting to eadbutt' an empire cannonball after.. it's fired from the cannon... Poor orcs :-o

[versuvius]

i have respect for grimgor and he wouldnt be killed by a mere manling cannon...a dwarf cannon might have killed him but not the empire piles of scrap

[Krulltak]

be a dwarf then...


No. A single dwarf would hardly scratch Gorbad.

I'm going to guess grimgor is going to die by attempting to eadbutt' an empire cannonball after.. it's fired from the cannon... Poor orcs :eek:

And if orcs can live without a head, a single cannon would only be a mere flesh wound to Grimgor, or even other orc warbosses for that matter. You can't imagine just how tough some of their bosses can really be.

a dwarf cannon might have killed him but not the empire piles of scrap

Again, a single cannon ball from a dwarf cannon is hardly any different than an Imperial cannon ball.

[versuvius]

bigger, better, covered in runes even an strongohld cant stand up to. i think a dwarf cannon would turn grimgor into so much quorn mush

[NoneSuch]

Krull are you joking? Orcs can't "live" without a head, I'll believe they might be able to survive for a short while on basic impulses but they definatly couldn't survive for more than a few minutes , unless.. it was sowed back on.

And believe me an actual cannon ball fired from a cannon would rip grimgor in half and obilterate him. This Orcs are awsome unstoppable god creatures is getting a bit overdone, I don't care how big they are a giant would most likely be instantly killed by a cannonball to the head.

[versuvius]

look im sure grimgor could still shout and kill stuff (like in space wolf when the ork was glaring at him from the floor (the head neway) but would die of lack of head

[Gorge]

who was the end of him though?

No one, specefically. At one point he was severely injured, but the other orcs were so afraid of him no one tried to take over as boss. His army just kind of broke apart and he wandered back where he came from, never to be heard from again.

Edit: Holy crap, I come back from the bathroom and we're already on a different topic.

[Krulltak]

bigger, better, covered in runes even an strongohld cant stand up to. i think a dwarf cannon would turn grimgor into so much quorn mush


Hmmm, true, runes would definatly help, but a single cannon ball is not enough. Although being cannons, a few more shots would mulch him.

Krull are you joking? Orcs can't "live" without a head, I'll believe they might be able to survive for a short while on basic impulses but they definatly couldn't survive for more than a few minutes , unless.. it was sowed back on.

And believe me an actual cannon ball fired from a cannon would rip grimgor in half and obilterate him. This Orcs are awsome unstoppable god creatures is getting a bit overdone, I don't care how big they are a giant would most likely be instantly killed by a cannonball to the head.

Wrong. It has been stated in the lore that orcs, even the small ones, can survive through severe injuries such as decapitation and dismemberment. Sure, they won't "live" without the head, but they will atleast last several more hours, or even a full day, or maybe even just until the battle is over. Hours, not a "few minutes".

There have been warbosses who have caught on fire and recived hundreds of hack and arrow wounds, yet still ran after the enemy.

I can agree that a cannon shot would practically render Grimgor defensless, but he would still alive and attempting to attack, albiet he would be on the ground and about to die.

You are misinterpretting me. I am not saying they are "uber leet tanks", I am just mearly stating what is true. Sure, I over-exagerated Grimgor's resistance to cannons, but it is fact that orcs can continue to fight decapitated after several hours.

[Gemini]

Does this have ANYTHING to do with the expectations/fears for the Black Orc in WAR? :P

[Bhazrak]

I'll be extremely dissapointed if my black orc can't fight without a head for a while, so yes, it has something to do with the hopes and fears.

/sarcasm

[Rahsk]

Heh, in TT I play using Grimgor's 'Ardboyz, a black orc and grimgor army =P. And if grimgor is hit with a dwarf cannonball, there's a 1/6 chance it won't wound him, and if it does, it does d6 wounds, and since he has 3, theres a 1/3 chance he'll live through it.

If it were real though, I'm pretty sure he'd just be pissed off, and have a concussion for a week, but he'd shake it off and be out there next week battling again.

[Krulltak]

Heh, in TT I play using Grimgor's 'Ardboyz, a black orc and grimgor army =P. And if grimgor is hit with a dwarf cannonball, there's a 1/6 chance it won't wound him, and if it does, it does d6 wounds, and since he has 3, theres a 1/3 chance he'll live through it.

If it were real though, I'm pretty sure he'd just be pissed off, and have a concussion for a week, but he'd shake it off and be out there next week battling again.


Thank you for explaining it to the weedy grots!

[MURRRR]

Gorbad didn't just siege cities, he ended them.

im sorry, i don't know very much fantasy lore, and now i feel like i have to know more about this Gorbad charecter... are there any places on the interweb that talk about him.

[Krulltak]

im sorry, i don't know very much fantasy lore, and now i feel like i have to know more about this Gorbad charecter... are there any places on the interweb that talk about him.


He invaded the Empire sometime in the 1700s. He smashed his way from Blackfire Pass to Altdorf, stopping by to eradicate the province of Solland so badly it had to be absorbed into Wissenland (killing its Elector Count, nicking his Runefang and burning everything). He burned much of Averheim and had some fun in Nuln too, before he besieged Altdorf. There, his Wyverns killed the Emperor (one of them - at the time there were three).

Gorbad had a really bad injury which was considered weakness by the Orcs. So, normally, they would have killed him, eaten him and then continued on with looting the Empire, but because Gorbad was so scary, the Orcs didnt want to fight him, as he carried that sort of "If I die, you are all going to die too, just longer and with more pain" attitude with him. So they all adandoned him and Gorbad disappeared to parts unknown.


He would have kick Archaon's and he is not even a Black Orc.

[MURRRR]

sweet, I love orc lore. I really need to buy the codex or something.

[Charnel]

sweet, I love orc lore. I really need to buy the codex or something.Heh, same here. But I'd just like to contend with getting Grimgor, he's meh favorite orc by far.

all I know is, that he nearly killed Archaon (probably leaving him either to be mentally crushed, or repaying what Crom did to him), and disappeared after that

[Dorix]

I actually want to play something like this, as I've always played caster classes or stealth classes in previous games. So my hope is definitely that they remain something of a "tank" class, but they don't suffer from some of the same terrible promlems created by previous games.

The biggest thing I'm seeing that probably won't cause this is that there is not a simple "warrior" class. That was probably WoWs biggest mistake. In WAR there's Blorcs, Choppas, Chosen, Marauders. That allows for a huge variety of melee classes that could fall under the "warrior" class and also allows them to be balanced A LOT easier. I don't know if that really conveys my point...

So yeah, my hope and my fear are tied to together. I fear they might end up being another class in yet another MMO that stands there gets hit while everyone else kills things. It looks like they won't, but things always change in games like this.

[Black Hammer]

So yeah, my hope and my fear are tied to together. I fear they might end up being another class in yet another MMO that stands there gets hit while everyone else kills things. It looks like they won't, but things always change in games like this.

With combo based moves and abilities like "Roight in da Jibblies," you can bet they won't be.

[Whillow]

With combo based moves and abilities like "Roight in da Jibblies," you can bet they won't be.

Aye, that's my point of view as well.

[Grundle]

After reading on this thread my biggest fear is their speed. A few earlier posts said that they are "slow" now I understand that this is important to make them kite-able, however, a BO cant be a good tank if he cant catch peoeple who are chasing his party members.

Hopefully there will be intercept and slowing abilities at the BO's disposal so that being able to run fast isnt what beats the BO, but rather being able to know how to get away.

Whatever the Devs do with it I cant wait to play one :D

[MURRRR]

After reading on this thread my biggest fear is their speed. A few earlier posts said that they are "slow" now I understand that this is important to make them kite-able, however, a BO cant be a good tank if he cant catch peoeple who are chasing his party members.

Hopefully there will be intercept and slowing abilities at the BO's disposal so that being able to run fast isnt what beats the BO, but rather being able to know how to get away.

Whatever the Devs do with it I cant wait to play one :D

Iv seen some of the black orc moves on some website, and there was a couple of moves along the lines of "tendon break" or "right in the jibbles" were it slows/knocks down opponents, and a move called sprint, so catching enemies doesn’t seem like it will be a problem.


But my biggest fear for the black orc is that it sounds like they won’t really be able to do any serious damage. Iv read that the black orc wont be able to effectively take down enemies by himself, and will just be a sack of HP for classes like the choppa, who will be doing all of the killing. And in a game based mostly around PvP combat it would be disappointing if they had only a few classes able to effectively kill enemy players.

[Gemini]

But my biggest fear for the black orc is that it sounds like they won’t really be able to do any serious damage. Iv read that the black orc wont be able to effectively take down enemies by himself, and will just be a sack of HP for classes like the choppa, who will be doing all of the killing. And in a game based mostly around PvP combat it would be disappointing if they had only a few classes able to effectively kill enemy players.


Where on earth did you read that? The way I understand it, they will be doing more damage than the average tank, and less damage absorbtion. I see them as being great 1 on 1 figthers because of their disabling techniques and decent damage, but less effective than say an ironbreaker against heavy focused fire.

[Whillow]

Where on earth did you read that? The way I understand it, they will be doing more damage than the average tank, and less damage absorbtion. I see them as being great 1 on 1 figthers because of their disabling techniques and decent damage, but less effective than say an ironbreaker against heavy focused fire.

aye. compared to a choppa and a marauder and other dps melee classes, the black orc is more a HP-sack of corse, but compared to other tank-classes he'll deal much damage!

[BobTheOrc]

I hope the Black Orc and Choppa are better than the Warrior from WoW (I am one)

We get owned by almost all classes fairly instantly if we arent on the attacking side. Im hoping that the black orc does a GOOD amount of dmg and doesnt get TWO SHOTTED by casters! I might change my character to Choppa if the Black orc does less than half as much damage. Why dont they balance it and have the Black orc do as much damage as a no rage choppa but VERY quickly after choppa gets some rage he does better than a Black orc at DPS. And at about half rage its a fairly large difference. Is that a good idea or not?

[Krulltak]

I hope the Black Orc and Choppa are better than the Warrior from WoW (I am one)

We get owned by almost all classes fairly instantly if we arent on the attacking side. Im hoping that the black orc does a GOOD amount of dmg and doesnt get TWO SHOTTED by casters! I might change my character to Choppa if the Black orc does less than half as much damage. Why dont they balance it and have the Black orc do as much damage as a no rage choppa but VERY quickly after choppa gets some rage he does better than a Black orc at DPS. And at about half rage its a fairly large difference. Is that a good idea or not?


Every, and I mean EVERY, class in WAR will do decent damage. Heavy Tanks will do good damage, it just won't be as high as a light tank's class and it won't be thier main priority.

[BobTheOrc]

I see right now im leaining twords Blorc but ill have to decide between the Choppa and Black after the game is released. I heard that every class can do what every other class can of the same basic "Class" I guess. aka Choppa can tank albeit not as good as a Black Orc, and a Black Orc could do DPS with a 2hander and do good dps but not as good as a choppas.

[Krulltak]

I see right now im leaining twords Blorc but ill have to decide between the Choppa and Black after the game is released. I heard that every class can do what every other class can of the same basic "Class" I guess. aka Choppa can tank albeit not as good as a Black Orc, and a Black Orc could do DPS with a 2hander and do good dps but not as good as a choppas.


Well a Choppa is a Light Tank class, meant for heavy melee damage, but he also has more durability then a ranged class, so he can sort of make a makeshift tank, but I would not reccomend it.

[BobTheOrc]

Im hoping of something of a 50 50 chance for each class to kill eachother. If they have equal skill level. Instead of Mage>Warrior Rouge>All Warrior>??? Warlock>All

Sorry for referencing WoW :(

Im sure from what EA/Mythic has said it wont be like that though.

[Rammsoldat]

i just hope the ol black orc can sponge up lotsa damage so i ghet a chance to play my role.

the problem ive had playin as tanks in the past is that they die a little too fast for their intended purpose somtimes.

[Norick13]

i just hope the ol black orc can sponge up lotsa damage so i ghet a chance to play my role.

the problem ive had playin as tanks in the past is that they die a little too fast for their intended purpose somtimes.


I remember reading somewhere that the tanks are going to need to die first inorder for a side to be successful. So, I think with that game design in mind you are going to be able to soak up a ton of dmg. Also, you are going to have A LOT of abilities to focus dmg on you, and not your allies or open up the attackers to your allies...yet more reasons why tankers are going to have to be able to survive. I wouldn't worry too much until we actually hear about some stuff from beta and how classes stack up.

[LookinGreen]

I just hope there is enough of them to soak up all the damage and distract the enemy while I build my damage. Choppa Choppa!

[Bigfish]

My biggest fear for the class is that they are going to get stuck in a cliche of having "tons of defense, so they get limited offense".

My biggest hope is that Black orcs are going to be a serious damage dealing class just a smidge below the rest, but with the ability to take hits much better.

[Krulltak]

My biggest fear for the class is that they are going to get stuck in a cliche of having "tons of defense, so they get limited offense".

My biggest hope is that Black orcs are going to be a serious damage dealing class just a smidge below the rest, but with the ability to take hits much better.


Their main priority is not dealing damage. Therefore, they will not have end-all damage. Their main priority is "tanking" and protecting allies.

However, he is defines as an "offensive tank", and therefore, in order to "protect" allies, he beats, bashes, and makes the enemy bleed.

Everyone will be doing good damage, but a Heavy Tank will not be out-damaging a Light Tank, nor a ranged damage class.

[Bigfish]

Their main priority is not dealing damage. Therefore, they will not have end-all damage. Their main priority is "tanking" and protecting allies.

However, he is defines as an "offensive tank", and therefore, in order to "protect" allies, he beats, bashes, and makes the enemy bleed.

Everyone will be doing good damage, but a Heavy Tank will not be out-damaging a Light Tank, nor a ranged damage class.

I'm not saying that they should beat out any other class that sacrifices something for more offensive power, but they shouldn't be a class that is reliant on others in order to get anything done ala tanking classes in other MMOs. In particular, a well to masterfully played Black Orc should have damage on par with if not beating out a poor to mediocrely played other class. Now, they would still be behind a masterfully played other class, but they aren't limited to being JUST someone who soaks up hits.

[Jesper]

black orc will have a lot of disables...it's not just about plain dps you know. You can dish a lot of dmg but die horribly by a caster you can't interrupt and outdps; or you can knockdown him and smash that poor toon with just a few more swings...

[Hadokenz]

Hope: I hope the Black Orc is the "offensive" tank as it is defined. Decent damage is good, but for me having active involvement in it is better. I like the thought of getting in someone's face and fighting dirty. I hope they are mean, big, tough to kill, and extremely troublesome to fight against with all their dirty tricks. I really would like to have a tank class where I can actually feel thoroughly involved in "tanking" something. I'd like to have a tank that the enemy fights not because they are forced so much to as actually being scared of having one on them. The Black Orc seems to fit this bill completely. He has tons of HP, tons of armor, and tons of ways to make sure you don't get past either of them. I hope the Black Orc is the guy you really DO NOT want fighting due to how much of a hassle he can be when he gets nearby. :twisted:

Fear: Due to the description of what I read so far concerning the Black Orc, offense doesn't seem to concern me very much. They blatantly called them an "offensive tank," how bad could it be? My main concern with the Black Orc involves multiple targets. From what I've seen so far, the class seems focused on getting one guy and beating the living snot out of them. Depending on the scope of the encounters the game will entail, I'm not sure how useful being only able to "tank" one guy with crowd controls, knocks downs, etc. will be. The "combo" system is reminiscent of a Rogue from WoW to me. You can only combo against one enemy and bring out your true potential on him. Depending on how they make his defenses relative to the incoming fire he will receive and the scope of his control over the enemies he encounters, my fear will be abated. This is my major concern, however.

[Daken]

My fear for borcs and greenskins in general is the population it is the most "uggly" race out there (for me is da best) and is supposed to be the most numerous i think the darkside will be all dark elves and chaos guys and the lightside will be all elfs and humans.When wow was about to be released i used to visit a spanish forum like this with polls and stuff very often...everyone was gonna be an orc back in the day and none wanted to be a undead the bad guys outnumbered the light guys according to the polls etc (im talking about the spanish community here dunno what were the odds prerelease on other communities)...see what happened half of the horde is undead and in most servers the bad guys are outnumbered thast why i dont trust polls anymore.

[Kridak]

My hopes for the Black Orc class is being able to lock people down so other people in my group can safely beat on them, I would like to soak up damage and be a fearful opponent.

My fears are, as in WoW, warriors were once the best class, then they got nerfed and they were terrible, then they were the most powerful class again, then Blizzard toned them down and they became terrible again.

In all honesty, I just want to be a powerful Meat shield that can soak up damage, but feared enough that I will be a priority for the other team to kill me.

[Goom]

Alot of good thoughts here

Like many, I'm concerned about fitting in as a Black Orc. I mean in a group doing PVE it is easy to categorize, but the worry I have along with many is solo PVE & RVR.

PVE, I would have to have 4 minutes fights because my damage is so low and all around me others are killing 3 items creatures during the same time, I would hope for something like 1.5vs1, or they kill 3v2 for me, that type of dmg speed, nothing like 5v2 as that seems too far but have to see how it balances out.

RVR, little worried about 1v1, if a dps'er is on me does his dmg overtake my reduction, or would it be a standoff due to my dmg mitagation and lower dps vs his higher dps and less dmg mitagation than me?

The last true tank I tried was when CoH first came out and I was extremely bored with my low dmg, it was like it just stood there and got beat on. I hope for some good tactics to use to keep me highly engaged even if I don't have near the dmg output as others.

[Duty]

I'm hoping that 1h+shield is a viable way to go, and I'm not forced to use a 2hander to remain effective. If 2handers are the only competitive way to play a Black Orc, I'll go to being a Choppa. I just don't like 2handers much, 1h+shield and duel wielding are great by me though.

[Gemini]

I'm hoping that 1h+shield is a viable way to go, and I'm not forced to use a 2hander to remain effective. If 2handers are the only competitive way to play a Black Orc, I'll go to being a Choppa. I just don't like 2handers much, 1h+shield and duel wielding are great by me though.

While a vary valid fear, of course, I'm not espically worried about it. If "Gud Wif Shield" and "Down Ya Go" are any indication, we will get plenty of good ways to our shield in a very orcy way.

[taechar]

Hope and fear: I have seen mention something that I hope makes it in game but seems unlikely with lag issues being what they are - the reference to use of a "Shield Wall" of tanks. This would truly add some semblance of defense to the black orc, protecting the squishy guys in the rear. So what's the problem? In order to accomplish this most effectively, collision with PC's needs to be active in-game. In other words, a hammerer runs forward toward da orkies trying to get to the squishy shaman at the back. He runs smack dab into the black orc between him and the squishy shaman and flat STOPS. In reality, due to lag times, collision does not seem practical. Here's what really happens: Stunty runs toward shaman, black orc moves to block and tries to use his abilities to "stop" the stunty, due to lag the black orc "misses" the stunty and he runs on to the squishy shaman and stomps him.
Real collision of characters would be nice. but again, is it really practical in the current internet environment?
And really, this argument holds true for any tank class, not just the black orcs.

[Forn]

The biggest and only fear I have is that Black Orcs will just be ignored for most of the R vs R fights. Ofcourse they have annoying skills like snare and other stuff, but if an Black Orc is just to hard to take down, what use will it be to attack them.

[Kathryn]

The biggest and only fear I have is that Black Orcs will just be ignored for most of the R vs R fights. Ofcourse they have annoying skills like snare and other stuff, but if an Black Orc is just to hard to take down, what use will it be to attack them.


I see that as a strong point if someone leaves our Black Orcs alone. :p

If someone is leaving alone a Black Orc whose "attacks are designed to jar, disorient, or otherwise disable his enemy" and "exploit(s) the openings they create to reduce the enemy’s ability to fight back"

That seems like almost a blessing for the Greenskins. Leaving a Black Orc alone to wreak havoc on your army is just plain silly in my opinion. :mrgreen:

[Krulltak]

I see that as a strong point if someone leaves our Black Orcs alone. :p

If someone is leaving alone a Black Orc whose "attacks are designed to jar, disorient, or otherwise disable his enemy" and "exploit(s) the openings they create to reduce the enemy’s ability to fight back"

That seems like almost a blessing for the Greenskins. Leaving a Black Orc alone to wreak havoc on your army is just plain silly in my opinion. :mrgreen:


So is leaving a Choppa alone to slaughter your army. Or a Shaman to keep da WAAAAAAAAGH! going. Or a Squig Herder to poke your eyes out and have his squigs wreak havoc.

It seems every class is being made to be "deadly if left alone". Luckily, these fights will be between multiple people.

[Kathryn]

Honestly it'll come down to who is better organized, and who has better players in the end.

I just wanna wreak havoc with my Waaagh! :mrgreen:

[NillR]

I hope I'll get options, and ALOT of them. I wanna make several decitions every second I play, and I do not wanna get check mated by an opponent knowing that that would happend 5 seconds before it does cause I am out of options. Im also looking forward to controlling the fight. Moving around friends and foes putting them into places where I see em fit. I want a really really high skillcap aswell, thats probably what I'm looking forward to the most. Hundreds of days worth of gameplay before Im even close to becomming as good as you can get. And ofc I hope the gameplay feels really orchish :p

I fear I'll get kited (I noticed one snarebreak in the skills), and that magic will chew right through my heavy armour like in most other games. I have some worries about soloviability (offensive tactics seems to help for that concern though). Latency making it hard to impossible to physically block and trap opponents is another thing that I really hope wont be there when I first play the game.

[Servitude]

I'm simply concerned that the Black Orc will turn out to be too defensive for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tanking, but I like dealing damage as well (at least for PvP). Basing DPS off of great defense usually doesn't work. If they say anything like "good at outlasting their opponents in PvP" then I think the class is doomed ='( Looks nice on the wrapper, but it will end up terrible.

At least give allowance to allow them to specialize in a more DPS oriented way. Maybe reflective damage?

[Eltair Shadowblade]

I'm simply concerned that the Black Orc will turn out to be too defensive for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tanking, but I like dealing damage as well (at least for PvP). Basing DPS off of great defense usually doesn't work. If they say anything like "good at outlasting their opponents in PvP" then I think the class is doomed ='( Looks nice on the wrapper, but it will end up terrible.

At least give allowance to allow them to specialize in a more DPS oriented way. Maybe reflective damage?
black orcs are going to be all about being irritating jerks.
knocking you down, snaring you and doing anything to keep you from fighting.

but what do i know:rolleyes:

[Krulltak]

black orcs are going to be all about being irritating jerks.
knocking you down, snaring you and doing anything to keep you from fighting.

but what do i know:rolleyes:


You know enough to know that as a fact. Black Orcs are the offensive tank of WAR. Orcs are never on the defensive. They bring the fight to thier enemy, always, and thier tank class will be no different.


Also, one of thier finishing moves involves a hit to the family jewels.

[Gemini]

Yeah, we are defiantly offensive. Servitude, I think you need to widen your defintion of offensive to be beyond "damage". Not that we won't do half-decent damage, but thats not what makes us offensive. We're offensive because the take the initiative, instead of waiting to need to protect our allies, we go proactive and charge into battle.

[Servitude]

Yeah, we are defiantly offensive. Servitude, I think you need to widen your defintion of offensive to be beyond "damage". Not that we won't do half-decent damage, but thats not what makes us offensive. We're offensive because the take the initiative, instead of waiting to need to protect our allies, we go proactive and charge into battle.

Yeah, that's true, I simply meant that I want to be able to kill enemies on my own, one on one =D I just come from a Paladin/ Prot Warr on WoW and don't want Black Orcs to end up like that...Dreadful!

Probably shouldn't bring up Wow, it sucks...this game is going to be SO much better!

[Gemini]

Well, one of Mythic's main goals has been stated to be that all class can solo decently, including tanks and support classes. I honestly don't think you should ahve too much of a problem doing decent damage, and you'll be able to move on to the next mob faster than a melee dps class who might have to recover from their wounds before moving on.

[Orracle922]

I come from playing WoW like most everyone else and had a 60 orc warrior. When I first looked at the classes for WAR I told myself I wasn't going to make the same mistake again of picking a tank class. But I was happy to read that every class was going to be able to dish out decent damage and do well solo (especially for the black orc being an "offensive" tank).

My fear is that I will be limited to taking a pounding while my group is left with all the fun of killing the enemy.

My hope is that, even being a tank, that I will still be able to deal a good amount of damage to get decent kills and still do well when I decide to run around solo and encounter some 1v1 pvp.

[Alaz]

I come from playing WoW like most everyone else and had a 60 orc warrior. When I first looked at the classes for WAR I told myself I wasn't going to make the same mistake again of picking a tank class. But I was happy to read that every class was going to be able to dish out decent damage and do well solo (especially for the black orc being an "offensive" tank).

My fear is that I will be limited to taking a pounding while my group is left with all the fun of killing the enemy.

My hope is that, even being a tank, that I will still be able to deal a good amount of damage to get decent kills and still do well when I decide to run around solo and encounter some 1v1 pvp.

The way I'm hoping it will be is, when you're solo you're going to be able to change out for the 2 handed weapon more often because either the npc's you're fighting aren't doing that much damage or the player you're fighting isn't that damaging. When you're in larger groups you'll be doing less damage but some of the Black Orcs abilities come from a successful block or parry which means you'd be more likely to be able to pull them off without the 2 handed damaging weapon.

I'd expect that of all the tank classes in the game this one would be the most offensive, simply because its an Orc and they aren't really made with survivability in mind, more with carnage :D

Maybe that'll limit their tactics a bit considering it would be unbalanced to simply make them "better" but oh well, I'm all for a more offensive tank so long as I get to bash some Dwarfs ;)

[madival]

hopes: the black orc will be a stand alone charecter but can group if needed
fears: the black orc will require a group to be effective

[UberChoppas]

I agree with Madival,cause my fear is that the Black Orc is worthless without being in a group,all i can hope is that i can own stunties in the face without being in a group.

[Krulltak]

I agree with Madival,cause my fear is that the Black Orc is worthless without being in a group,all i can hope is that i can own stunties in the face without being in a group.


Well you're definatly not going to down a group of stunties without your own group. Every class will work well solo, but they ALL work best in a group.

[GrimmJaw]

My fears for da Black Orcs is that Choppa + Sheild will simply be the most viable skill path to use. I may not take other paths, but just having those choices makes for more interesting gameplay.
Personally, I want to be needed in a group.
In my short time in DAoC, I played Vampiir and hated group combat... No one needed/wanted me in a group regardless of the spec path I chose (save for other vamps, cuz I was fairly skilled) and everyone in other realms picked me off first. Wasn't too fun.

[Lawinator]

My fears for da Black Orcs is that Choppa + Sheild will simply be the most viable skill path to use. I may not take other paths, but just having those choices makes for more interesting gameplay.TBH I think choppa + shield should be the most viable option. As a tanking class we really shouldn't be focusing on big damage, our main focus should be protecting a group and knocking people over, which is best done with a shield. Sure you could probably use a 2h for soloing or something, but it shouldn't be advisable in PvP.

Edit: Should toss these in here
Hopes: Black Orcs will be as awesome as I think they are
Fears: Our CC will be nerfed by whiny people

[GrimmJaw]

Yeah, from a Tanking perspective it should be the main choice. I didn't mean to imply that you should be able to mutate a Tank into a freakin DPS or something, but rather that it should be possible to actually spec into dps and get half/half in both offensive and defense?

[Lawinator]

Yeah, from a Tanking perspective it should be the main choice. I didn't mean to imply that you should be able to mutate a Tank into a freakin DPS or something, but rather that it should be possible to actually spec into dps and get half/half in both offensive and defense?Well that's fine with me! I'll be knocking guys over with my shield. Although... I do enjoy big numbers from time to time.

[Krulltak]

Just realize, newbies, a shield with giant blades sticking out of it counts as a weapon.

And Mythic has stated sheild-based attacks will be in and will be GOOD.

[DarthShrimp]

Just realize, newbies, a shield with giant blades sticking out of it counts as a weapon.

Anything in the hands of a black orc counts as a weapon, I'd say. And when I say "hands" I actually mean "elbows, feet, shoulders, head, and anything you can think about".

[Lawinator]

Just realize, newbies, a shield with giant blades sticking out of it counts as a weapon.

And Mythic has stated sheild-based attacks will be in and will be GOOD.Anyone reminded of the shield slam build from WoW?

[Rukaz]

I'm hoping the Black Orc is a "control" tank. Someone try to bonk you on the head? Break his arm. Someone sneaking up on your gobbo mates? Taunt him onto you. Trying to run away from you? Break his leg. Get a good dose of WAAAGH! from the Gobbos, keep the enemy focused on you and slowly wear them down. Warriors in WoW kind of almost had this option... Shield bash to silence casters, conc. blow to stun at will, hamstring to keep enemies slowed. But enemies could just walk right through you to kill your casters, and it was a problem keeping up with enemies who could kite you. Plus, their offensive loss compared to their defensive gain was poorly balanced (i.e. gain a little defense for a HUGE DPS loss).

[Doom721]

My fear is that in endgame the BO's will get creamed in group fights because tanks will be focus fired.

My hopes is that I can sac SOME defensive tactics to solo with more DPS, I know mythic said all careers can do damage, but I want to get done with my pve fast :)

[mikku]

hopes: the black orc will be a stand alone character but can group if needed
fears: the black orc will require a group to be effective

certainly, a class archetype can certainly be weak to one archetype and strong against another, but 1v1 it should be able to take anyone on and win if you have enough skill. some classes will just be harder than others

[Klepa]

Hopes:
I can be viable with a shield both solo and when grouping. PvE and PvP. If we're doing a pve instance with more than one (assuming you're only expected to have one tank) , I could be persuaded into taking up a two hander.. Let the chosen and black guards wave their big axes and halberds around, and gief me the shield. Seeing the poll on another thread, I could see some people disagreeing with me. :)

Fears:
That I need to be escorted by a healer whenever there's RvR to be done.

[Flicken]

Fears: That people will always assume I'm a tank and can't do any damage at all... I think the BlOrc will be doing lots of damage with or without a shield as most of his cooler abilities require them... More damage when stunned etc. Only time will tell...

[Sarc]

Hopes: I like the idea of a melee fighting with a sense of "savageness" in them, to actually beat the hell out of others nice and hard. I hope that the Black Orc's brawling style can convey that sort of satisfaction i am seeking.

Fears: That I don't last longer than 10-15 seconds in combat and not do any sort of serious damage because lets be honest: when ya dead, you can't beat up others as a Black Orc and when you can't beat up others as a Black Orc, you can't have fun!!

[sithborn]

fears: one-That being more effective at 1-1 tanking the BO will suck at multi-taking and two- (my biggest frear) that the BO will by itself without the obvious armor and sheild look exactly like a choppa. wtb diff look straight form the start.

hopes- awesome dirty fighting involving the shield