[US Herald] - New Open-RvR Server - Rakarth

[Garthilk]

From the Customer Service category we have: New Open-RvR Server - Rakarth

WAAAGH!!!

Welcome to Open-RvR! Rakarth awaits all those who seek the challenge and excitement of Open-RvR combat. Below you will find what separates an Open-RvR server from the Core rule set - it's not for everyone but it might be for you!

Open RvR Server Ruleset

Are you ready for the nextchallenge in RvR? Do you love the adrenaline rush of always having tolook behind your back for the enemy? If so, then we welcome you to OpenRvR, where you will either shine or falter in a constant battle forglory! Battle your enemies outside of the RvR lakes and affect thefate of your realm! Your Chapter 1 hub and your capital city are theonly locations in the game where you have safe confines, of course thatis until your city becomes under attack.

Rules:
- Players are always RvR flagged from the moment they log in
- Chapter 1 hubs and capital cities are safe
- There is no bolster buff in RvR lakes
- Players will be chickened when entering an area that is two tiers below their level (ex. A Tier 3 player entering a Tier 1 area.)

Have fun and see you on the battlefield!


Source (http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=245)

[niSs]

Nice. Now give one to us, ze Europeans!

[deakster]

The 1 tier 'padding' on the chicken system just reduces the issues slightly, doesn't resolve them.

People who want to get to rank 40 asap and then go back to finish off unlocks are still out of luck.

People who acidently miss out some unlocks in tier 1-2, and only realise at 40 are also out of luck.

On the other hand, this slight change (can't really call it a fix, since it only improves on the problems slightly) introduces a lot of new problems (rank 20's ganking rank 3's etc)

[Tiritos]

The 1 tier 'padding' on the chicken system just reduces the issues slightly, doesn't resolve them.

People who want to get to rank 40 asap and then go back to finish off unlocks are still out of luck.

People who acidently miss out some unlocks in tier 1-2, and only realise at 40 are also out of luck.

If u want to actually play to do PvE and unlock the tome stuff, dont go open, as easy as that. The game design with so many exp rewards for everything you do will outlevel fast the contend as you play, even just doing escenarios and rvr.


On the other hand, this slight change (can't really call it a fix, since it only improves on the problems slightly) introduces a lot of new problems (rank 20's ganking rank 3's etc)

That is just what "hardcore pvpers" wanted to get, the risk to get a lvl 20 ganking ppl just as they get out of the chapter 1 zone. That is clearly what ppl have in Age of Conan, and some ppl like it, others not.
Again, if u dont like it, reroll core server, it will ease your life.

[Kryptikhan]

Open peeps got what they wanted. Core peeps have what they want. Actually commend Mythic instead of flaming each other or Mythic, like this thread might turn into. Nothing is perfect, that's what patches are for. Yay.

[laufer]

The 1 tier 'padding' on the chicken system just reduces the issues slightly, doesn't resolve them.

People who want to get to rank 40 asap and then go back to finish off unlocks are still out of luck.

People who acidently miss out some unlocks in tier 1-2, and only realise at 40 are also out of luck.

On the other hand, this slight change (can't really call it a fix, since it only improves on the problems slightly) introduces a lot of new problems (rank 20's ganking rank 3's etc)

wow i guess you really cant please everyone. Like the previous poster said if you want to get all you tome unlocks hmmm GO CORE. If you want to be a leet pvper and show off your awesomeness by killing lvl 3s when your 20 go open. I think mythic bending to the "hardcore" pvpers was a bad idea, but like i said you can't please everyone.

[CleanCup]

While i don't personally approve of this decision, it doesn't affect me all that much as i will be rolling Core.

But hey, cheers to the griefers...i mean..."Tome Unlockers."

[skyflashde]

Any CM or Mythic employee care to explain to me why they don't disable the chicken for the friendly tier zones and only have the chicken mechanic work on the RvR areas and hostile areas?

Is there any gameplay reason against it?

I'd much rather have people chickened in any enemy and RvR zone below their tier, than have them chickened 1 tier later but also in friendly territory.

It absolutely does not make sense to me what Mythic is doing here, yes they did make the problem less bad but why didn't they just fix it? They don't even need to write new code, just grab the RvR flag code and plug it into the chicken mechanic...

Please, explain the problem to me, why don't you guys at Mythic just SOLVE the problems instead of this bad workaround (bad hack rather).

I mean, half of your LUA API is a bad hack, why put even more hacks into the game? :P

I just want some insight what the problem is... don't you have enough time now, but will fix it later, or will we be staying with this hack forever?

I don't wanna play like this, so if you say you will FIX the issue later so that chickens never happen on friendly territory, I will go OpenRvR, but if you say it's gonna stay like this forever, and you consider this a working mechanic, I will have to tell you that the OpenRvR servers are not gonna work out at all.

That 1 tier less chicken will introduce heavy griefing, both because

1) Level 40 players can go and kill level 20 players that just entered tier 3 and disable the tier 3 keep fights totally. Tier 3 will effectively be DEAD for gameplay, all RvR content will not be playable.

2) You cannot defend your tier 2 territory against organized griefer guilds that swarm your territory with numbers, because unless you can find an equally big anti-griefer guild that will stay around tier 2 level (lol?) to defend the area, there is no way a random group of people will be able to use any PvP / RvR content in tier 2 at all or get the territory back, as they cannot ask higher level players for help, they would just get chickened.

All in all, for gameplay reasons, your solution to OpenRvR ruleset WILL NOT WORK. Trust me.

The ruleset will disable both tier 2 and tier 3 content and the game will be a lot less enjoyable for OpenRvR servers because of the chicken.

[deakster]

If u want to actually play to do PvE and unlock the tome stuff, dont go open, as easy as that. The game design with so many exp rewards for everything you do will outlevel fast the contend as you play, even just doing escenarios and rvr.



That is just what "hardcore pvpers" wanted to get, the risk to get a lvl 20 ganking ppl just as they get out of the chapter 1 zone. That is clearly what ppl have in Age of Conan, and some ppl like it, others not.
Again, if u dont like it, reroll core server, it will ease your life.

Ok, of course the solution to ANYTHING can be 'go somewhere else' or 'play something else', but lets see what the real issues are.

I believe the 1 tier padding to the chicken system was added because of the large number of people complaining that they want to be able to go back and finish off tome unlocks they haven't unlocked, on Open servers. I believe mythic tried to do something based on that community feedback.

I know a lot of people who want to play on Open servers for the added danger and having to always look behind your back, but do NOT want the added feature of getting 1 shotted by a bunch of people 20 ranks above you camping your area.

I personally dont mind too much, but I spoke to some people who want the 'war everywhere' idea of open servers, but not 'unfair war everywhere', where you are fighting people much higher rank than you.

Of course it is ultimately upto mythic what they want open servers to be, and its not for you (or for me) to define that.

[Racheakt]

I personaly like this, psudo happy mid ground.

I want Gankers to have a place to go, if they all roll open it will keep that segment of the MMO community off of the Core servers.

[Heavens Agent]

Any CM or Mythic employee care to explain to me why they don't disable the chicken for the friendly tier zones and only have the chicken mechanic work on the RvR areas and hostile areas?

Is there any gameplay reason against it?

I'd much rather have people chickened in any enemy and RvR zone below their tier, than have them chickened 1 tier later but also in friendly territory.

The gameplay reason is pretty simple, actually. Other than the RvR lakes, the game doesn't define areas as friendly or hostile. As such, there are no areas that could be termed enemy zones.

[Satanous]

yeah people can say they want tome unlocks all they want, we all know the truth they want to gank, nothing wrong just don't lie and try to cover it up, sometimes its a nice pick me up to go kill a person whose lvl 2 after getting owned in your lvl pvp

[skyflashde]

The gameplay reason is pretty simple, actually. Other than the RvR lakes, the game doesn't define areas as friendly or hostile. As such, there are no areas that could be termed enemy zones.

Actually, that is wrong. You could even see the zones using the LUA API. How do you think is the RvR flag given out on Core servers?

[Kahine]

To all the posters who keep making dramatic and ridiculous statements like

"I promise you this won't work" or "No one will play on these servers"

Make sure to come back on day 1 and day 100 and day 300 and see all the people still playing on them , I am glad for the changes and so are lots of folks who wanted to go open RvR -

Just because YOU dont like them doesnt mean "it wont work" or "everybody" doesnt like them

[Heavens Agent]

Actually, that is wrong. You could even see the zones using the LUA API. How do you think is the RvR flag given out on Core servers?

Actually, you're incorrect. I'm not sure what you mean by LUA API, but I was able to travel an enemy starting area, and I never got flagged for RvR. The only time you're flagged on Core-RvR servers is by choice, after attacking or assisting someone flagged for RvR, or by entering an RvR lake.

[Sueme]

Ive only followed this debate a little bit so i'm just gonna ask the question. Why cant u cop the chicken debuff only when u attack someone lower then your are? I'm not saying THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE because like a said i don't have all the facts just asking the question of someone who does have the facts.

[Knuckle]

I've never understood the chicken idea. If you can scale up to even the ground for lower level toons, why could you not scale toons backwards when they engage in lower level zones? If Wardb has any degree of accuracy, abilities already have scales lower then when their rank would permit them to be learned.

[Tudana]

what is a RvR Lake?

[Alchemda]

what is a RvR Lake?

The little orange area on the map that Open Field RVR is permitted.

[fierywater]

I commend Mythic for trying to make everyone happy. I can't help but feel that they're trying to shoehorn an open PvP server ruleset into a game that's really not designed for it.

Honestly, if I were them, I would've removed the chicken mechanic altogether because a completely open killing environment seems to be what people who are unhappy with the Core ruleset want. I just don't see a way to curtail griefing while simultaneously granting an open PvP ruleset; they come hand in hand and the community has to police itself.

[Azkadilla]

Well this will be abother Tarren Mill situation in WoW where 70's stand around and gank lvl 20's.

personally never have understood the reason for that, got to feel good about something I guess *shrugs*

But I'll still probably roll a toon on the server loved the PVP servers in WoW except for the immature that did the above

[Racheakt]

Ive only followed this debate a little bit so i'm just gonna ask the question. Why cant u cop the chicken debuff only when u attack someone lower then your are? I'm not saying THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE because like a said i don't have all the facts just asking the question of someone who does have the facts.

Isn't this a description of happens on the Core Server type?

[Kahine]

Well this will be abother Tarren Mill situation in WoW where 70's stand around and gank lvl 20's.

personally never have understood the reason for that, got to feel good about something I guess *shrugs*

But I'll still probably roll a toon on the server loved the PVP servers in WoW except for the immature that did the above


The point of the above was your side should bring your 60's to TM/SS and fight back , which happened often , it was open field PvP between teams without guaranteed levels/numbers -

Some prefer that to little scenario only PvP , we had many fun fights back and forth between TM and SS at the launch of WoW between levels 20-60 and a mix of everything - it was different and fun and people enjoyed it -

[Heavens Agent]

. . .it was different and fun and people enjoyed it -

Correction: some people enjoyed it. I know many who refused to play on the same server as me, simply because of areas like TM where they couldn't get things done due to all the higher-level players taking them out. It would have been wonderful if the high-level players had only attacked other high-level players. But we all know that didn't happen.

[Azkadilla]

The point of the above was your side should bring your 60's to TM/SS and fight back , which happened often , it was open field PvP between teams without guaranteed levels/numbers -

Some prefer that to little scenario only PvP , we had many fun fights back and forth between TM and SS at the launch of WoW between levels 20-60 and a mix of everything - it was different and fun and people enjoyed it -

Well this is the last about that, I agree totally with you here as far as the open PVP what I was referring to was one Level 70 rogue camping the place killing all the quest givers and every PC there till your faction 70's show run off or log off for twenty minutes and rinse and repeat.

That is frustrating for everyone but the ganker, but I'll drop the issue and want bring it up again
"Enough Azkadilla, about stupid WoW,"

"OK Sorry"

[ahbab]

i hope we euros ever get it

[skyflashde]

"I promise you this won't work" or "No one will play on these servers"
Just because YOU dont like them doesnt mean "it wont work" or "everybody" doesnt like them

I did not say that nobody does play on them, I said the gameplay mechanic is not working correctly, and thats a design issue. I think we all know that people will play ANYTHING as long as it's new.. I mean, people are even playing AoC still.

[burfo]

Any CM or Mythic employee care to explain to me why they don't disable the chicken for the friendly tier zones and only have the chicken mechanic work on the RvR areas and hostile areas?

Because, on an open-RvR server everywhere is a hostile area (except Chapter 1 & capital cities). It wouldn't make much sense to allow rank 40s to kill rank 10s on one part of the Tier 1 map but not on another part.

[smashitup]

I personaly like this, psudo happy mid ground.

I want Gankers to have a place to go, if they all roll open it will keep that segment of the MMO community off of the Core servers.


I hope so, that would be nice.

I personaly didn't wan't this but it matters little to me because I'm not going to roll on an a open server anyway.

If you wan't all those TOK unlocks, then you have even longer to go get them.. If you somehow miss these while 'power leveling' then you chose to miss them. To be honest it's hard to not get them and if you wan't to level fast you honestly will wan't to do everythign in the area, pqs, scenarios, quests, rvr and walking a few hundred feet to get a tok.... Not that hard and infact levels you faster than those who don't do it.

I think it's pretty obvious the TOK claim is for people who really wan't to gank t1 at rank40 or this claim is coming from people who haven't experienced how fast you level by doing all the content, especially since they increased the time it takes to gain xp.

EDIT: Actually I did think of a way you could miss the TOKs... If you were running around in A pve/rvr zerg warband, you could miss em because the group might not go near those things... either way it's open server player's choices and they have even more time in which to make that choice now.

[loopgru]

This "solution" caters only to gankers. The real problems with the chicken mechanic- inability to PL friends, inability to go back and explore lower tier content, inability to go back for tome unlocks, inability to go find and explore lower tier lairs and easter eggs- these are all still completely broken under the current system. All this change provides is a wider potential level disparity in low tier zones. If implemented correctly, I'd *love* to roll on an open server, but the way it has been set up so far I just can't see doing it at all.

[Raistaran]

Just because YOU dont like them doesnt mean "it wont work" or "everybody" doesnt like them

Actually, if one person doesn't like it, that does in fact mean that not everybody likes it. Just saying... :)

Personally I like the idea that you get turned into a chicken when you take any action on a player (attack, heal, buff, etc) from a previous tier. It allows people to still do PvE content that they missed, but prevents ganking. But I'm guessing it would be complicated to put into place, or they probably would have done it already.

[Burli]

Open peeps got what they wanted. Core peeps have what they want. Actually commend Mythic instead of flaming each other or Mythic, like this thread might turn into. Nothing is perfect, that's what patches are for. Yay.

Amen to that , but cryer don't read , they can't , there eyes ... they are full of tears .

[skyflashde]

Personally I like the idea that you get turned into a chicken when you take any action on a player (attack, heal, buff, etc) from a previous tier. It allows people to still do PvE content that they missed, but prevents ganking. But I'm guessing it would be complicated to put into place, or they probably would have done it already.

No, the reason they don't put it in, is because it does not work.

You do not prevent ganking if you punish them AFTER they ganked. They will just have 4 characters and rotate ganking.

The chicken mechanic on the Core server is working just fine, now they just need to fix the code to implement it the same way on the OpenRvR server. Which essentially means removing its dependency on the RvR flag, cause the flag is on an OpenRvR server obviously no indication if they should be a chicken or not.

There is code in place that lets the server know if you are in friendly or hostile territory, they just need to actually USE it for the chicken.

[Yushiamo]

Here's how i would put things.

Tier 1 & Tier 2 are combined for Open RvR ( 1 to 20)
Tier 3 & Tier 4 are combined for Open RvR (20 to 40)

If someone lvl 40 moves down to the tier 1 & 2, he gets unflagged for RvR (immune from low lvl's attackers),do his unlock's and lairs, but if he flag's himself for RvR he turns into a chicken.

Dont need to seperate things like i did, we can put things in each tier. I just want open RvR in my own tear, you have a chance to own people 10 lvl's lower than you in your own tear and thats far enough.

[Lunara]

This "solution" caters only to gankers. The real problems with the chicken mechanic- inability to PL friends, inability to go back and explore lower tier content, inability to go back for tome unlocks, inability to go find and explore lower tier lairs and easter eggs- these are all still completely broken under the current system. All this change provides is a wider potential level disparity in low tier zones. If implemented correctly, I'd *love* to roll on an open server, but the way it has been set up so far I just can't see doing it at all.

I have yet to hear a SINGLE idea for a 'correct' implementation of an open RvR server that would please everyone.

I don't get the PVP players who insist they will want to do Tome Unlocks and such. You're on a PVP server, you're there to PvP. If you want to help lowbie friends and do quests, you belong on a core server.

These are the two server types I hear requested:

1. Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, any level, no chicken.
-Yikes! Griefers Paradise!)

2. Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, no ganking, no chicken. (I don't know how people expect this to be implemented

[Ankor]

how does tier 4 work? if my understanding is correct, tier 4 could go into tier 3 anyways.. so are they allowed in tier 2?

[Lunara]

This "solution" caters only to gankers. The real problems with the chicken mechanic- inability to PL friends, inability to go back and explore lower tier content, inability to go back for tome unlocks, inability to go find and explore lower tier lairs and easter eggs- these are all still completely broken under the current system. All this change provides is a wider potential level disparity in low tier zones. If implemented correctly, I'd *love* to roll on an open server, but the way it has been set up so far I just can't see doing it at all.

I have yet to hear a SINGLE idea for a 'correct' implementation of an open RvR server that would please everyone.

I don't get the PVP players who insist they will want to do Tome Unlocks and such. You're on a PVP server, you're there to PvP. If you want to help lowbie friends and do quests, you belong on a core server.

These are perhaps three server rulesets I see requested:

1. Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, any level, no chicken.
- Yikes! Griefers Paradise, but some people are into that sort of thing

2. Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, but prevent high levels from ganking (chicken)
- I don't know how people expect this to be implemented because if you can travel into lower tier zones you can affect the gamplay of those lowbie players even if you can't kill them directly you can influence keep sieges and objectives.

3. As described in the OP
- It would seem this is a pretty good compromise, the chicken will only prevent you from going into a zone where you will be grossly overpowered

You can't please everyone. I fully intend on rolling a Core server, but I think Mythic has done a great job trying to come up with something for all the "hardcore PVPer/gankers" out there!

Thanks Mythic for trying something new for the fans, now we will wait and see how they like the new server!!!

[Knuckle]

I have yet to hear a SINGLE idea for a 'correct' implementation of an open RvR server that would please everyone.

I don't get the PVP players who insist they will want to do Tome Unlocks and such. You're on a PVP server, you're there to PvP. If you want to help lowbie friends and do quests, you belong on a core server.

These are the two server types I hear requested:

1. Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, any level, no chicken.
-Yikes! Griefers Paradise!)

2. Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere, no ganking, no chicken. (I don't know how people expect this to be implemented

What about the idea of scaling toons (hp/abilities) down in Tier 3, 2 and 1 areas? Sure they still have a severe advantage, but it's not a chicken, and you can still take care of your "unlocks". It would also keep lower Tiers active/relevant in later stages of this game, when everyone is 40 and Tiers 1 and 2 become Alt/Newbie ghost towns.

EDIT: the idea of scaling down is from the assumption you are being scaled down from a higher Tiered player going to a lower Tier. If that was not clear.

[Gregorian]

This is actually a worse Open RvR ruleset than before. Mythic seems to have completely missed the mark with this.

People who want Open RvR generally aren't looking for an easy way to gank, we want the danger of being killed by equal level opponents at any point and also having the option to fight even level opponents at any point. All this Open RvR rulseset does is apply a bandaid to the problem of content lockout and completely screws over the sense of balance people actually desire.

I repeat:
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to gank people 20 levels beneath them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be ganked by someone 20 levels above them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be locked out of content ever.
Most people that want an Open RvR server are not interested solely in PvP. We prefer PvP, we welcome more PvP, but we aren't completely against PvE.
Mythic's Open RvR ruleset completely misinterprets these points.

[loopgru]

I have yet to hear a SINGLE idea for a 'correct' implementation of an open RvR server that would please everyone.

I've already given one, but it's been a while. In short, the mechanic *already* exists to apply a modifier to a character once they are flagged in a given area- it happens every time you join a scenario or walk into an RvR area at less than rank (X)8 in that tier- your hit points, stats, and damage output are increased to be in line with those of a character of rank (X)8.

So turn it around! If a high level character heads down to a lower tier area, apply a corresponding debuff to bring them into line with the characters that belong in that tier. Sure, they will have all manner of abilities and tactics that give them far greater flexibility than characters of that level, but scaled down to rank (X)10 or even (X)8, they won't present an insurmountable obstacle for players in that tier.

I don't get the PVP players who insist they will want to do Tome Unlocks and such. You're on a PVP server, you're there to PvP. If you want to help lowbie friends and do quests, you belong on a core server.

Just because I enjoy open world RvR doesn't mean that I will suddenly forget about the entire rest of the game, nor that I want to be unable to play it as fully as a player on a core server. Just because I don't like the fact that open RvR is restricted to the RvR "lakes" doesn't mean that I am somehow disinterested in PvE content.

In short, wanting the option of Open RvR is not the sole perview of mouth breathing gankers who hit kittens with bricks in their spare time.

[Kilolas]

Sorry if this is a nub question, but what is a "RvR Lake"?

[rek2]

Thanks for the Open rvr servers!!! I love it.. I can't picture myself playing fake rvr(pvp)
to play a rol game you have to try to be as close to reality(the history of the game reality) as possible, and if I were in that kind of scenario nothing will stop an enemy from ganking me, this is why you have to learn how to play pvp, you depend more on your group, like .... reality. there is a reason why humans form tribes and armys.. is not about me myself and I, is about playing in groups so that way you are not getting ganked...
also cheers for WAR because on WOW if you were ganked then you have to come back to your body, this means they could wait for you and you had no chance to preparing an ofensive attack on the same people who killed you first..
THANKS!

[chronoNT]

two important questions...


a)Can tier 3,4 players play tier 2,3 senarios?
b)If they can will they receive the exp reward for winning?

As someone whos been pvping in mmos as far back as UO, my biggest fear is servers dieing because of old players leaving while new players not having a change. This leads to a crap server with the same handfull of "1337" guilds circle jerking each other in pvp.

This game us unlike every other mmo because important RVR exists at every level, in games like wow and daoc(sry only played vanilla) the real pvp was at max level and there was no incentive to go to lower areas other then to be assholes. In WAR thoes low teirs mean something (unless the devs podcasts lie) so there is an incentive to go and beat the out of level 20's with 40's.

This will make all RVR zones essentialy level 40 RVR zones(after the population grows in levels). This triples the pvp area and makes pvp more decentralized, thus leading to more deluted battels... for what? the be able to gank?

Personaly i would love for the checken rule to stay for all teirs but in that tear you can attack ANYONE (both frendly and enemy sides) other then guild mates and party members (whoever servievs gets to do the PQ lol).

[mlittle74]

Sorry if this is a nub question, but what is a "RvR Lake"?

I don't understand either, what is the lake reference for?

[loopgru]

I don't understand either, what is the lake reference for?

It looks sort of bad when you ask a question that has already been asked and answered in this thread...

[mlittle74]

It looks sort of bad when you ask a question that has already been asked and answered in this thread...

*Edited for content*

[burfo]

Sorry if this is a nub question, but what is a "RvR Lake"?

This was answered earlier in this thread:
The little orange area on the map that Open Field RVR is permitted.

[loopgru]

*Edited for content*

"A thorough analytical?"

It's was (at the time you posted) a three page thread. The answer is a 13 word post with the question "what is an RvR lake" quoted directly above it.

How much of an "analytical" do you really need to do at that point?

[mlittle74]

"A thorough analytical?"

It's was (at the time you posted) a three page thread. The answer is a 13 word post with the question "what is an RvR lake" quoted directly above it.

How much of an "analytical" do you really need to do at that point?

*Edited for content*

[loopgru]

Keep digging. :)

Anyway, this is all off topic. I'd much rather figure out why Mythic decided to implement a system that fixes none of the issues people had with open RvR servers and, in fact, compounds many of them, rather than a debuff or other system.

[Kilolas]

Just calm down people, no harm was done in asking a question already answered, no need to start insulting each other.

[skyflashde]

I have yet to hear a SINGLE idea for a 'correct' implementation of an open RvR server that would please everyone.


Here it is:

- There are three areas where you can potentially become a chicken.

1. Safe areas (town and chapter 1)
2. RvR lakes
3. Enemy territory

- You will become a chicken in one of those areas, if you are not in the same tier level range.

- All guards that are guarding the enemy territory are removed.

What does this lead to?

- People can freely move into enemy territory their same tier or above and kill.
- People can freely enter their own territory at any tier to gank enemy players invading their own lands and take the tier back.
- RvR and PvP are always between same tier players, UNLESS YOU invade enemy territory, in which case you could possibly be ganked by a high level player.
- You can help low level players with PQ and PvE quests.
- You can unlock your tome all you want.
- People that want to gank can gank players invading their country.
- You can always be attacked by enemy players your level range, which is the fun part.
- WAR is now TRULY everywhere!

THIS is what I call an OpenRvR server. What they are releasing right now is just a gank-with-no-fun server.

[santamaycry]

Well I'm not sure if I want to roll on open anymore. The idea of people being able to participate back a tier is ridiculous in my opinion

[Boris]

Here it is:

- There are three areas where you can potentially become a chicken.

1. Safe areas (town and chapter 1)
2. RvR lakes
3. Enemy territory

- You will become a chicken in one of those areas, if you are not in the same tier level range.

- All guards that are guarding the enemy territory are removed.

What does this lead to?

- People can freely move into enemy territory their same tier or above and kill.
- People can freely enter their own territory at any tier to gank enemy players invading their own lands and take the tier back.
- RvR and PvP are always between same tier players, UNLESS YOU invade enemy territory, in which case you could possibly be ganked by a high level player.
- You can help low level players with PQ and PvE quests.
- You can unlock your tome all you want.
- People that want to gank can gank players invading their country.
- You can always be attacked by enemy players your level range, which is the fun part.
- WAR is now TRULY everywhere!

THIS is what I call an OpenRvR server. What they are releasing right now is just a gank-with-no-fun server.

The only problem being there are no "enemy territory". Not sure about the other zones but in the GvD zones there is a lot of overlap in the PVE areas. Particular in the Tier 2 area where you have quite a few of PQ that overlap.

[skyflashde]

The only problem being there are no "enemy territory". Not sure about the other zones but in the GvD zones there is a lot of overlap in the PVE areas. Particular in the Tier 2 area where you have quite a few of PQ that overlap.

Ok, make that the "not friendly" territory. Then it's clearer what it means. If it's neutral, then it's also enemy territory, and there shouldn't be high level players inside it.

The work of dividing up zones shouldn't be a technical problem, it's just work that has to be done by Mythic. It's nothing requiring brains, and it's not even hard. Just involves going through the maps and drawing some very rough border lines. (and there aren't many maps.)

Personally I would do it with photoshop using a heightmap technique, you translate the player position to an drawn zone image (three colors indicating zones), get the pixel color and voila you got his zone (RvR, friendly, enemy). It would probably take me about two days to write the code, create the maps and do the implementation with basic testing. And then probably a month to REALLY test it and debug, but thats another story.

They don't need to do it now, hell they can patch it in a month after release. I don't care, as long as they say NOW that it will be done some time in the future.

The current OpenRvR servers just aren't fun, unless you are a ganker, then maybe it's fun for a few weeks.

[HOLLISTER]

What about the lvl 40 world hero bosses that supposedly drop some of the best gear in the game? Some lairs/dungeons are spread all over the lower lvl tiers (Was able to find 1 of them easily in the HE area during OB). They are not instance encounters and are part of the world. If I am automatically flagged in Open Server and lvl 40, does that mean I can’t go back to Tier 1 and take them down??

[ChaosEverliving]

Why can't they just designate "RvR lakes" on core servers, and have a reverse effect on them in core. You go into a RvR lake that you have outlevelled, you are chickened and flagged. You go outside a RvR lake you are unable to attack anyone unless attacked by them first. This lets you do PvE without being able to interfere with lowbie RvR at all(you can't even block gates).

[AngelofWar87]

Personally, this isn't my definition of 'Open RvR'. But eh.. Don't bite the hand that feeds eh. I was looking to a decent open rvr server.. Guess I'll be staying on core.

[DirtyRat]

Sweet got what i want. I can atleast go back to tier 3. All i wanted..Yeee tired of playing on core servers starring at dwarf while they /wave me.

[Sithrimir]

This "solution" caters only to gankers. The real problems with the chicken mechanic- inability to PL friends, inability to go back and explore lower tier content, inability to go back for tome unlocks, inability to go find and explore lower tier lairs and easter eggs- these are all still completely broken under the current system. All this change provides is a wider potential level disparity in low tier zones. If implemented correctly, I'd *love* to roll on an open server, but the way it has been set up so far I just can't see doing it at all.

I totally agree. This seems like the worst solution they could have come up with despite having lots of good suggestions on the matter from the community here. I was really hoping the stealthers and gamkers wouldnt find a home in WAR.

Sith

[Torjok]

This is actually a worse Open RvR ruleset than before. Mythic seems to have completely missed the mark with this.

People who want Open RvR generally aren't looking for an easy way to gank, we want the danger of being killed by equal level opponents at any point and also having the option to fight even level opponents at any point. All this Open RvR rulseset does is apply a bandaid to the problem of content lockout and completely screws over the sense of balance people actually desire.

I repeat:
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to gank people 20 levels beneath them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be ganked by someone 20 levels above them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be locked out of content ever.
Most people that want an Open RvR server are not interested solely in PvP. We prefer PvP, we welcome more PvP, but we aren't completely against PvE.
Mythic's Open RvR ruleset completely misinterprets these points.

Good post.

[Raistaran]

No, the reason they don't put it in, is because it does not work.

You do not prevent ganking if you punish them AFTER they ganked. They will just have 4 characters and rotate ganking.

I don't really understand what you mean. Player A attempts to take action against Player B. Player A gets turned into chicken. Action goes through but only does 1 damage. There's no reason the action has to be allowed before the chicken takes effect.

I suppose if you had several hundred people all coordinate the attack at the same time, you might be able to do enough damage to one shot someone. But really if that happened, I'd be thrilled to be ganked because it would be the funniest thing I've ever seen.

[loopgru]

Death by poultry? Hell yes. ;)

[Kahine]

This is actually a worse Open RvR ruleset than before. Mythic seems to have completely missed the mark with this.

People who want Open RvR generally aren't looking for an easy way to gank, we want the danger of being killed by equal level opponents at any point and also having the option to fight even level opponents at any point. All this Open RvR rulseset does is apply a bandaid to the problem of content lockout and completely screws over the sense of balance people actually desire.

I repeat:
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to gank people 20 levels beneath them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be ganked by someone 20 levels above them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be locked out of content ever.
Most people that want an Open RvR server are not interested solely in PvP. We prefer PvP, we welcome more PvP, but we aren't completely against PvE.
Mythic's Open RvR ruleset completely misinterprets these points.


Most would prefer no chicken mechanic at all on an Open RvR server , most don't want artificial rules or handholding or safety rails -

[Katlan]

Is it "that" hard to program an Open-RvR server to where everyone is flagged in the correct lv'd tier'd, but when you go into lower tiers it's treated like a Core server & you are auto-unflagged until you try to PvP, in w/case you become flagged and chickened?

That's what I think ppl want.. unless I'm wrong.

The new ruleset is just gonna screw over a lot of ppl who lv slowly (or those who join the game later down the road). The entire point of WAR is PvP, but whats gonna happen is that all the high lv players are gonna start camping lower tier keeps and it's gonna be impossible for the appropriate lv ppl to PvP until they reach the next tier of content and go back at the cap

[drdarthvader]

for all you whining about being ganked or keep sieges being unfair yada yada yada, why dont you just play on a core serever? Its just dumb to join an open server and then complain that its open. besides, having ganking as an option forces a player to join a guild, or at least form parties instead of playing an MMO solo.

[Ouchy Dathurts]

This is disheartening news. I've always planned to roll on an open server but I don't know why they felt the need to bend to a bunch of whiny griefers that suck so horrifically at pvp that they need to pick on people with zero chance of fighting back.

They've basically made defending or taking keeps useless as someone 15 levels higher than you is going to come smash your entire teams face in. I'm just as competitive as anyone on this forum. I've played PVP games forever. PvP is the sole reason I've got any interest in this game and been following it for so long.

Bending to people who want "tome unlocks" or whatever people are calling griefing now is insane. There is no reason any actual competitive PVPer would want to fight someone that doesn't have a fair shake at it. I could give a crap less if I could never go back a tier and get whatever stupid unlock is there. I've skipped every single PQ in this game since the first greenskin one, I don't care about the PVE crap. I want to PVP, and I want to do it against people who have a shot.

At the end of the day this is entirely about people wanting to get their rocks off by smoking some noob trying to kill a moss snake. No self respecting PVPer would accept these changes with open arms. There's got to be a different way of dealing with the situation. There is a reason fights have weight classes, same general theory. Something needs to be put in place, 2 tiers is WAY too big of a swing.

[Demonfetus]

I don't really understand what you mean. Player A attempts to take action against Player B. Player A gets turned into chicken. Action goes through but only does 1 damage. There's no reason the action has to be allowed before the chicken takes effect.

I suppose if you had several hundred people all coordinate the attack at the same time, you might be able to do enough damage to one shot someone. But really if that happened, I'd be thrilled to be ganked because it would be the funniest thing I've ever seen.


I agree with him. If you do this at the player v player level then you could have the chicken mechanic everywhere without disrupting things.

On the other hand. This completely destroys the foundation of even fight. That level 10 will never ever be able to kill that level 20ish. This will probably discourage the lower level guy from going into that zone or battle. The whole game will feel like twink battlegrounds in WoW. When I go into a scenario or Open World RvR and somehow I get matched (lets say I am level 8) against a level 11, its a nightmare and I even have the boost in health.

In summary. First of all people wont be too hardcore about pve achievements which is acceptable. Forces people to make alts I guess...But on the other hand it promotes the "gonna call my big brother to fight your big brother" mentality. Anyway, I am rambling but the original thought of Mythic was a little better as much as it might hurt people who RvR. I personally dont mind moving on from tiers fast as long as there is lots to do at the higher tier.

[santamaycry]

Most would prefer no chicken mechanic at all on an Open RvR server , most don't want artificial rules or handholding or safety rails -
Who is this most you speak of. Most != you

[Nerissa]

The 1 tier 'padding' on the chicken system just reduces the issues slightly, doesn't resolve them.



Quite frankly, it is the Open RvR ruleset for which the game was never designed for that is causing the issue. Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in this game was concieved and drawn up for the Core ruleset, back when it was just the ONLY ruleset.


And I think the 2 tier padding is unnecessary. I eagerly await the legion of complaints about higher tiers coming and owning up the lower RvR areas, because they will happen. ESPECIALLY on an ORvR server given the audience those servers will attract. Given that the chicken system was specifically put in place to prevent this.... Hmm, selfish players that want unlocks, or people actually playing in that tier, choices, choices....


(If you think any system other than chicken is going to make it in at launch, I have some property out in the middle of the Atlantic to sell to you)

[Yushiamo]

Is it "that" hard to program an Open-RvR server to where everyone is flagged in the correct lv'd tier'd, but when you go into lower tiers it's treated like a Core server & you are auto-unflagged until you try to PvP, in w/case you become flagged and chickened?

That's what I think ppl want.. unless I'm wrong.

The new ruleset is just gonna screw over a lot of ppl who lv slowly (or those who join the game later down the road). The entire point of WAR is PvP, but whats gonna happen is that all the high lv players are gonna start camping lower tier keeps and it's gonna be impossible for the appropriate lv ppl to PvP until they reach the next tier of content and go back at the cap


Exactly what i want. I just want Open World pvp in my tier, i don't give a damn about other tiers.

[sb220]

the 2 tier chicken rule isnt bad...even a no chicken rule isnt bad.

So basically people that want to roll on open ruleset want larger pvp areas. At level 40, with no chicken the world is your pvp map.
Tier 1-3 will suffer for the grandness and options of end-game. Is that a fair trade off to you? If not dont roll open.

[skyflashde]

Quite frankly, it is the Open RvR ruleset for which the game was never designed for that is causing the issue. Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING in this game was concieved and drawn up for the Core ruleset, back when it was just the ONLY ruleset.
(If you think any system other than chicken is going to make it in at launch, I have some property out in the middle of the Atlantic to sell to you)

No it's not the OpenRvR server ruleset, it's just that the code was designed badly and thus changed the chicken mechanic to work outside of the RvR areas on OpenRvR servers. This is not the same as on Core, and that is why the chicken does not work on OpenRvR currently.

They just need to fix their design, the chicken is fine at it is, it just was not implemented correctly into the server. That has nothing to do with the ruleset, it just was a dumb mistake on their side to tie the chicken to the RvR flag. It was a hack that works on Core, but not on OpenRvR or any other ruleset they might come up with in the future. It never was good design though.

Fix the bug and the OpenRvR server will be the perfect Warhammer server.

No chicken on friendly territory, PLEASE!

[Gregorian]

Who is this most you speak of. Most != you

Gotta agree. Those of us arguing for a better Open RvR server are at least willing to admit the benefits of a system that keeps lvl 40's from killing level 1's. We've decided to pick our fights instead of beating our head against a wall asking for something that's antithetical to the entire enterprise of the game.

[realcyberghost]

For me there never should have been open servers in the 1st place, it is just a waste of resources.

The problem is that people will "think" that Open RvR will be the place to do the "real" RvR.

And that many of us feel forced to join Open RvR, that is why many of us wanted a solution for the tome unlocks etc.

I think the current implementation is pretty cool, cause now the "endgame" RvR just got bigger, as in Tier 4 AND Tier 3 ( the way i always thought it would be, even on core ).

Greetz

[skyflashde]

Tier 1-3 will suffer for the grandness and options of end-game. Is that a fair trade off to you? If not dont roll open.

Someone who says something like that doesn't know the slightest bit about game design, about Warhammer Online or anything remotely related.

It obviously is not a fair trade off to anyone, as it will just not work, at all, ever. If you don't mostly restrict people to the equal tiered level range PvP, the whole gameplay dies.

There won't be a War going on in Tier 1-3 cause there is just mindless ganking, plus all the players will divide up all over the world, so there are no mass events, large keep fights or anything that is supposed to be endgame in Warhammer Online.

In Tier 4, you won't have that many people either, cause they are either ganking in Tier 1-3, as those keeps can almost be taken by a lonely level 40 player, rendering every non level 40 players essentially out of the game, OR they are trying to bash with too few people against the endgame RvR fortresses, to no avail, and probably with only few enemies other than the NPCs.

PvE, leveling or PQs will just not be possible very soon, when most of the players are level 40, as they will be bored and just running around ganking.

Everyone that is not a ganker will transfer off that server so quickly you can't even say: "What a sh**** idea."

Why don't we discuss something that at least could possibly work out?

[Nerissa]

No it's not the OpenRvR server ruleset, it's just that the code was designed badly and thus changed the chicken mechanic to work outside of the RvR areas on OpenRvR servers.


The code does exactly what the developers intended it to do. It is you who disagrees with their intent, but that doesn't make their design flawed. It simply means that you dislike the way they did it.



And quite frankly, the way they did it was more than fair. Just not to whiny little brats that want to annihilate lower levels in the Battlefield areas and while they're questing.


I may have to bring my old sig back. There are definitely a lot of people coming out of the woodwork lately that fit that particular bill.

[Raes]

Most would prefer no chicken mechanic at all on an Open RvR server , most don't want artificial rules or handholding or safety rails -

Then this isn't the game for you, or "most" people. :rolleyes:

You know what, I never played Shadowbane, L2 or any full on PvP game because that's not my type of game. I didn't go over to the forums before it was even released and demand that the Devs made the game the way I want to play it.

Full on open pvp does not exist in WAR, go wait for Darkfall or something.

Also if it really is the thrill of being hunted anywhere, anytime, you crave. Just flag yourself.

[skyflashde]

The code does exactly what the developers intended it to do. It is you who disagrees with their intent, but that doesn't make their design flawed. It simply means that you dislike the way they did it.

No it means they took the easiest way out and have to pay for it now, because things do not work out and they can't fix it in time. That is called bad design. Good design is flexible, extensible and can quickly be adapted to a new surrounding.

I do not think that they do not grasp what the playerbase really wants for the ruleset, I just believe they can't deliver it in time because of the above mentioned missing flexibility of the design. And thus they deliver what they can, which really sucks.

No chicken mechanic at all would be still better than what we have now, which is a system that still promotes ganking but does cut out 50% of the game content for high level players. I do not see how that system can be seen as a good thing.

I'd much rather have the possibility to gank and be ganked everywhere than not being able to help friends, not do world bosses and not visit tier 1+2 again, ever. I mean, really, the current system is not a trade-off but a total rip off.

[Torjok]

There won't be a War going on in Tier 1-3 cause there is just mindless ganking, plus all the players will divide up all over the world, so there are no mass events, large keep fights or anything that is supposed to be endgame in Warhammer Online.

In Tier 4, you won't have that many people either, cause they are either ganking in Tier 1-3, as those keeps can almost be taken by a lonely level 40 player, rendering every non level 40 players essentially out of the game, OR they are trying to bash with too few people against the endgame RvR fortresses, to no avail, and probably with only few enemies other than the NPCs.

PvE, leveling or PQs will just not be possible very soon, when most of the players are level 40, as they will be bored and just running around ganking.

Everyone that is not a ganker will transfer off that server so quickly you can't even say: "What a sh**** idea."


I hadn't even thought about the "spreading out issue..." that's a really good point.

[The Chosen One]

I don't care how you do it or what system you use (gank or nongank) I want to be able to GO EVERYWHERE in the server without turning into a chicken.

Make Tier 1 save, Tier 2 a massive RvR zone and a little part save and T3&T4 RvR all the way.

Perhaps throw in a system that turns you into a chicken if you kill a lowbie anyway.
Persisting through logout and dead.
Surely there will be some ganking but its still less then a "true RvR" server and it allows everyone to go everywhere.

[skyflashde]

I hadn't even thought about the "spreading out issue..." that's a really good point.

Well that was one of the reasons they took out the other cities. And it was definitely a good idea, I don't think it would have worked out with 6 main cities. Now if I imagine that all tiers could be used for high level RvR, and that the lower ones will be much simpler to attack, this is like nightmare on elm street.

[Slade_Templar]

Someone who says something like that doesn't know the slightest bit about game design, about Warhammer Online or anything remotely related.

It obviously is not a fair trade off to anyone, as it will just not work, at all, ever. If you don't mostly restrict people to the equal tiered level range PvP, the whole gameplay dies.

There won't be a War going on in Tier 1-3 cause there is just mindless ganking, plus all the players will divide up all over the world, so there are no mass events, large keep fights or anything that is supposed to be endgame in Warhammer Online.

In Tier 4, you won't have that many people either, cause they are either ganking in Tier 1-3, as those keeps can almost be taken by a lonely level 40 player, rendering every non level 40 players essentially out of the game, OR they are trying to bash with too few people against the endgame RvR fortresses, to no avail, and probably with only few enemies other than the NPCs.

PvE, leveling or PQs will just not be possible very soon, when most of the players are level 40, as they will be bored and just running around ganking.

Everyone that is not a ganker will transfer off that server so quickly you can't even say: "What a sh**** idea."

Why don't we discuss something that at least could possibly work out?

This is what I've been trying to tell some of my friends, but they won't listen. I guess they will just have to see it for themselves.

[skyflashde]

I don't care how you do it or what system you use (gank or nongank) I want to be able to GO EVERYWHERE in the server without turning into a chicken.
Make Tier 1 save, Tier 2 a massive RvR zone and a little part save and T3&T4 RvR all the way.
Perhaps throw in a system that turns you into a chicken if you kill a lowbie anyway.
Persisting through logout and dead.
Surely there will be some ganking but its still less then a "true RvR" server and it allows everyone to go everywhere.

Not that I like your other idea, but you are right with one thing... for me:

Number 1 priority is to be able to access the complete PvE, PQ content, even when I am level 40, and go everywhere in my own territory.

Whatever you do, if that is not possible, I won't go on that OpenRvR server, even if that means I have to take the much less fun Core server.

[LiquidTang]

I have absolutely no idea if this would work but if you can't attack someone else if your RvR flag is off, then i think a solution would be to simply force a persons RvR flag off when they go back tiers. Obviously if someone lower wants to attack someone higher you could make it so the flag turns back on and whoop as commences. If this is not possible then i think chicken on attack of someone lower would be a better system. Again if that is not possible then i think Mythic needs to get working on it when they can.

[vrok]

Even though this is still a heavily flawed Open rule-set I'll gladly take it over Core. Doing PQs side by side with Order, killing each others NPCs and not being able to touch the players doing the killing is beyond stupid.

People here like to harp about the game not being designed for an Open rule-set, well I'd call my previous point a perfect example of the game not being designed for Core. The zone layout designs at the very least. For a Core design it should've pretty much been a perfect wall-off only connecting the different realms via the RvR lakes a la DAoC.

Rolling Open no matter what.

[drdarthvader]

i have to agree with the "spreading out" issue. I am not saying that open wouldnt work or anything like that, but with the core servers, it will really bottle neck the action and make the sieges/RvR assaults larger. I am sure i will get flamed for this but i think the battles on the core servers will be bigger in the end

[vrok]

There is no spreading out "issue", real or imaginary, because no one is forcing you to roll Open.

[nalgae]

Even though this is still a heavily flawed Open rule-set I'll gladly take it over Core. Doing PQs side by side with Order, killing each others NPCs and not being able to touch the players doing the killing is beyond stupid.

So are magically respawning enemies. This is war. Any player you kill should be permadeathed. Anything else is just not hardcore enough.

[Attilat]

Well I hope gankers ar ehappy, you got what you wanted. I still say chickenize when coming into lower tear or make it instant kill when targeting lower tier player.

It's kind of ironic isn't it? On Core, where you're supposed to be enjoying PvE content, you can't go back and in Open server where PvP is encouraged, you are allowed to gank.

[Mythsyin]

still content issues, please make all content available at lvl 40 accessible to everyone.. need to re-adjust either the rules or where the content is located.

[Sedina]

Some issues i've noticed so far is the open group system shows ever group as RVR, so you have no idea if it's a PVE, PQ or RVR group until you join.. also the content issues, playerbase being too far spread out and i'm sure most of these will get fixed.. but so far my impressions is that the Open-RVR ruleset was just slapped together last minuite, which is fine there are far more important things the developers need to work on for a smooth launch.

I was really looking forward to them, but now i think i'll wait and see how it works out before i roll on one. Core or Open-RVR i will be perfectly happy.. lots and lots of PVP either way.

[Celeras]

Open peeps got what they wanted. Core peeps have what they want. Actually commend Mythic instead of flaming each other or Mythic, like this thread might turn into. Nothing is perfect, that's what patches are for. Yay.

What about people who wanted to old Open system? Where you could go anywhere you want in your tier, at any time, and fight anyone fairly (not just in RvR zones).

Now, that option no longer exists. You have a server where the fair fights are restricted to RvR zones, and a server where people 20 levels above you could be roaming around and picking you off and completely dominating all the objectives.

The only people who like the change, are people who play Core and had no intentions of going open. For people like myself, who actually wanted to play on the old Open Servers... this pushed me away.

[Nzo]

Wouldn't this mechanic screw lvl 40s out of completing lairs since theyre all in lower tier areas? I have visited the Lair of Morra and know that its full of level 40 mobs. So that tells me this is for the end game player base, but if thats the case how would the players playing on the Open Servers be able to do them? Also I have been informed that all other lairs found also happen to be in Tier 1 and Tier 2 and that they are all level 40 mobs.

[Atran]

I repeat:
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to gank people 20 levels beneath them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be ganked by someone 20 levels above them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be locked out of content ever.
Most people that want an Open RvR server are not interested solely in PvP. We prefer PvP, we welcome more PvP, but we aren't completely against PvE.
Mythic's Open RvR ruleset completely misinterprets these points.
QFT

What is with all the carebear hate. Open RVR is what I wanted from the get go. You all can stick to the regular while we can have fun on the Open RVR server.

[deakster]

^

trust me, those concepts are far too difficult for most people here to understand

[Mandragon03]

My guild is not a fan of these open RvR rules that encourage high levels to gank low levels. Mythic always seams to miss the boat as far as open RvR is concerned. they seam to be forcing open RvR fans to go to the core rule set.

But in the end the game is a good game. We just wish Mythic would not be so daft when it comes to this subject.

Mandragon

[Kuarghamer]

I repeat:
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to gank people 20 levels beneath them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be ganked by someone 20 levels above them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be locked out of content ever.
Most people that want an Open RvR server are not interested solely in PvP. We prefer PvP, we welcome more PvP, but we aren't completely against PvE.
Mythic's Open RvR ruleset completely misinterprets these points.

Okay just a suggestion. But all of this is available in Core. I gather that all you want is just that little bit more PVP? If so perhaps the only difference for the Open servers is to keep everything the same yet you are flagged for RVR all the time in your own tier. So no higher lvls can gank you outside of your tier and you cant gank lower lvls outside of your tier.

I know that you can turn your RVR status on in Core. I was doing some PVE and saw a opposing player in my area. I simply turned on RVR and started attacking. I am not sure but I am guessing he had is RVR flagged on as well or this would not have worked. I have no idea if this is what the Open RVR people want but it seems like it would solve your problems if the above quote is correct.

[Jide]

All I really hope is that rank 40s can't buy their RR gear from lower tiers. If they can, I'll be ticked. That and I still think you should ONLY chickened if you go into a RvR lowbie area with keeps, that I can understand.

I'm so sick of this debate of "You're too hardcore! Get a life!" and "You're too much of pansy! Grow a pair!" back and froth bull. Let me clear some things up the best I can.

Some people like their drinks strong and thick with little bits of wood from the frick'n barrel in it...
Some people like their drinks fizzy and fruity with an little umbrella accompanied with a cherry...
Everyone has different tastes, deal with it.

You are not everyone, don't pull numbers and generalizations out of your bum.

The "Lol hard cores want their computers 2 slode when they die in game they r so dum lol!!!!1" card for an insult just makes you look like an idiot. Using Insults to reinforce your arguments doesn't work on people who don't get mad at them. They only weaken your argument.

PvP'ers are not all gankers, infact most people I know don't look for lowbies to gank if they can do it any time they want, they'll kill you if you run into them maybe and if they're really bored. It's when it's a rarity that people strive for it and look for it. Pvp'ers enjoy killing they're own level because it's more satisfying.

People gank when they're bored and have no one else to fight. The reason people ganked in WoW was to make the lowbies call their friends so they have someone to fight. I hope WAR doesn't have that problem with finding people to fight.

I've never seen someone who camped a lowbie for no good reason. Only if that lowbie killed the higher level's alt or friend over and over again to tick him off. I don't think you can get camped in this game ethier since you spawn at a warcamp.

People who will roll on open like the idea they're NOT SAFE. No risk situations are called boring. It's the same reason why people like to gamble.

Some people don't like their PvP refined and canned for them. WoW did that, you tell me how those BGs and Arenas tasted after a while.

I'm lazy, I just wrote what I felt was needed to be said....Think of them as cliff notes ;P

[Velryn]

For me the big reason not to go Open RvR is that you only get the Bolster buff in scenarios. That means it's near impossible to level up completely through Open RvR on an Open RvR server. The bolster buff is what battle ranks you to level 8 when you enter an RvR zone and allows you to go straight to the Open RvR zone at level 1 and start killing and leveling up if you want. This goes for every teir so if you want to do t2 open RvR at level 11 you stand a chance against a level 19 and you can level openly rather than constantly choosing who you should fight, or just saying "screw it" and doing a scenario. If you think about it in that respect core is more open.

edit:

Also I'm seeing this unfortunate mentality that Core servers are PvE servers and Open RvR are PvP servers start to kick in. People we're all PvPers here otherwise we would be playing WoW right now. It's just about the slight methods of getting your RvR. To be honest I feel like Open RvR was really mislabeled as every single server is an RvR server, Open RvR is just one where ganking or getting tome unlocks is more possible, and it's more challenging to level through Open RvR, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's all about which you prefer. Keep in mind though that Core can be just as hardcore or PvP as Open RvR.

[skyflashde]

There is no spreading out "issue", real or imaginary, because no one is forcing you to roll Open.

Yes, because if we all put our heads in the sand the problem will magically go away!

[skyflashde]

To be honest I feel like Open RvR was really mislabeled as every single server is an RvR server, Open RvR is just one where ganking or getting tome unlocks is more possible, and it's more challenging to level through Open RvR, and there's nothing wrong with that, it's all about which you prefer. Keep in mind though that Core can be just as hardcore or PvP as Open RvR.

No it's not mislabeled.

The people that want to play OpenRvR (and thus hate the current ruleset) love to be attacked during leveling and PvE by enemies their level range. That is what OPENRvR means... You can fight the other realm in the open area. OpenRvR is not about ganking, it really should make it impossible to attack anyone that is not your tier, same as it is on Core.

Core is not as hardcore as OpenRvR, because you can CHOOSE to do PvP. On Core you can level up all the way to 40 without ever fighting anyone, and many people will do just that. Core also can't be hardcore, at all, because there is no way the enemy is getting into your PvE area on a regular basis, and if he is, he can't attack you if you choose to not fight.

Everyone that is REALLY a PvPer at heart would play on OpenRvR, but now they dropped the ball on the server rules, so we all go Core, so we aren't locked out on content.

[cashkilla]

I just cancelled my pre-order after reading this.

The choices (at level 40, which won't take long to get to) are:

Core - Have access to 100% of the PvE content, but the server is 100% carebear

Open - Have access to 50% of the PvE content, and the server is basically 50% carebear



I want a server that will give me access to 100% of the PvE content at level 40 and be carebear-free. In other words, I want the chicken mechanic removed entirely. Hell, I'd settle for the chicken mechanic being removed in friendly zones, although it would be cool to get destruction unlocks as an order character.

[vrok]

Yes, because if we all put our heads in the sand the problem will magically go away!
No one who's interested in Open believes this is a problem at all. Most likely due to past experiences. It's just selfish Core people whining and trying to get people to roll Core with them and/or get Mythic to scrap Open. Since the reasons behind this "issue" is the core of an Open rule-set, if you feel it's a problem just don't roll Open. It has nothing to do with you or your playing experience.

[Grumble]

I commend Mythic for trying to make everyone happy. I can't help but feel that they're trying to shoehorn an open PvP server ruleset into a game that's really not designed for it.

Honestly, if I were them, I would've removed the chicken mechanic altogether because a completely open killing environment seems to be what people who are unhappy with the Core ruleset want. I just don't see a way to curtail griefing while simultaneously granting an open PvP ruleset; they come hand in hand and the community has to police itself.


You said it perfectly!

If you want a pvp server, here you go. Full time, no limits, pvp. Level 40s can kill level 1s as soon as they poke thier heads out of the starting areas/home cities. Anything else is being dishonest with the idea of a pvp server.

You cant have it both ways. You want the excitement of full time, fully flagged pvp, then accept the risks and consequences as well.

[Yadama]

Is the servers name Rakarth, as in Urien Rakarth from the 40k Dark Eldar army?
If so, that's pretty cool.
Is it fantasy related and i'm just stupid?

[Los]

I just dont get the reason behind calling them "Open" Servers.... Lets be honest if your going to make different servers you should make them different not this "Half-Open" crap its just silly.

Aloso I notice a lot of the the people claiming that the only people who want full "Open" servers are griefers... So what what's your point? Ofcourse their griefers theres nuthing wrong with that at all, they understand that they can grief but at the same time get grieft themselves. Its an even trade.

I for one am completly disapointed that this game claims "WAR is everywere!!!" yet refuses to make a no holds bar type of server were any form of pvp goes.

[vand3l]

Why dont you make it so you can go and play in lower tiers, but, if you hit someone 10 levels or more below you, you then get turn instantly into a chicken until you leave the zone, plus add a 1 minute slow. That would stop people sitting on a zone line and gnaking, and allow people to run around and PVE.

Plus, add in the Bolster buff like on Core, so you can still feel balanced in the rest of the game play?

That just seems a much fairer way of doing it. You spent 2 years or more working out a fair and balanced gameplay system, the first in the world to do so, then completely break it at launch just because a few griefers whine about how they cant gank someone in one hit anymore. That was kind of the point, and showed you were doing your jobs right!

Edit: Of course, the OTHER way of doing it... would be to have the bolster buff in as normal, but then add in a bolster DEBUFF, so if a level 20 enters a level 10 zone, he is debuffed down to level 8, evening the playing field (with his abilities past that level greyed out.)

[tungstun]

you know what would be a great idea?


take those PQs that are basically RVR PQs... like that dwarf/orc one a poster a few pages back was referring to.... and make them rvr lakes that flag you... but don't raise your level so you don't get an advantage in the PQ.....

i mean if the PQ is basically an rvr PQ people shouldn't be able to just not flag and keep killing npcs like that... it's just silly...

or make the npcs trip an rvr flag when you hit them.... that works... splits the difference.


not that this is related to the topic at hand..... it's just a good idea all around.



as to the topic at hand... the game was built to promote rvr in an area small enough to allow everyone to find each other, but large enough to feel strategic...... expanding the combat zone with an "open" rvr server will turn the game into nothing more than a series of small fights where nothing really gets done.....

i'm sorry but people who want open RvR want a game that doesn't provide the kind of battle experiences this game is trying to provide.....
in a real war situation the battle lines are drawn, people stay on their sides because they can't get through without dying.... and when the fights happen they happen on battlefields defined by the lines drawn.....

core is about as "realistic" something like this will get.... despite what alot of people think there are rules to war.....

if you want "true open pvp" .... which amounts to basically an anarchic society in a real world sense... then go hang out on the darkfall forums... the bullies will win there.

this ain't the game for you.


me thinks open rvr servers are attempting to please an unpleasable player base who wants this game to be something else.

[tungstun]

also... from what i've heard they are eventually working in a "debuff" system... like the reverse bolster effect... because it will be necessary to an extent once end game kicks in.... once this is worked out that will probably become the base technology for OpenRvR servers anyway... so chicken will be a quickfix until then.

[Clord]

Just check level difference of target player try to damage and if difference is too big, nullify damage and turn attacker to chicken. It would allow players to go everywhere they want to fight against eachother but let same time let lower level players to observe and be safe from getting damaged.

[Sentime]

This server is soooo empty. OMG!

I'll try again tomorrow. Today I had to keep hoping zones just to get a scenario for PvP. Trying to find people for open world PvP? ... haha a ghosttown.

[texugo]

whats the difference between "core" servers and open rvr servers?:confused: (sry im new)

[Velkins]

To stem the gankers and make it where they aren’t grieving the lower tiers take the chicken out completely make it where if you attack players in lower tiers you lose renouned points and a good chunk of them say like 100 each kill but make it only work if said person is in a low tier area any other way and you’ll have lowbies in upper tier areas spying for their side in sieges.

[skyflashde]

You said it perfectly!
If you want a pvp server, here you go. Full time, no limits, pvp. Level 40s can kill level 1s as soon as they poke thier heads out of the starting areas/home cities. Anything else is being dishonest with the idea of a pvp server.
You cant have it both ways. You want the excitement of full time, fully flagged pvp, then accept the risks and consequences as well.

But we don't have that. If we had that, there wouldn't be that much whining. What we have is as that other poster said 50% carebear, 50% content, and that sucks.

[skyflashde]

This server is soooo empty. OMG!
I'll try again tomorrow. Today I had to keep hoping zones just to get a scenario for PvP. Trying to find people for open world PvP? ... haha a ghosttown.

Of course its empty. The ruleset does not work, everyone knows its not working, plus the server started late. Who will want to play on that server... it's half core and half openrvr, so it's not satisfactory to any of the players.

[Kronn]

My personal opinion is they should get rid of the chicken rule altogether on Open RvR servers. People will gank, I know but it would be no different than any other open PvP server from any other game. If that's what people want let em have it.

[skyflashde]

My personal opinion is they should get rid of the chicken rule altogether on Open RvR servers. People will gank, I know but it would be no different than any other open PvP server from any other game. If that's what people want let em have it.

What people really want is the chicken or debolster mechanic to ensure same tier PvP but access to the complete content, which means no chicken in own territory.

However, if we don't get that they should just remove the chicken completely and let us handle it all. Yes, we will get ganked, but I am pretty sure we also will do some serious ganking ourselves. :P

Those are pretty much the two options.

If they pick a different one, they should just get rid of the OpenRvR ruleset, cause it will not work out for enough players, and they will never get the servers as occupied as they should be.

[Trennet]

Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to gank people 20 levels beneath them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be ganked by someone 20 levels above them.
Most people that want an Open RvR server don't want to be locked out of content ever.
Most people that want an Open RvR server are not interested solely in PvP. We prefer PvP, we welcome more PvP, but we aren't completely against PvE.
Mythic's Open RvR ruleset completely misinterprets these points.

I really like this summary. But the new Open Server changes are progress -- not there yet, but in the right direction. Now there just needs to be auto-deflagging (and thus no chicken) if step foot two Tiers lower.

[Kahine]

There are tons of guilds going on Open RvR servers - many saw no point in rerolling for two days in an open beta that is about to close -

[skyflashde]

There are tons of guilds going on Open RvR servers - many saw no point in rerolling for two days in an open beta that is about to close -

Actually, most guilds are waiting for the OpenRvR ruleset to change and it's all on hold.

Our guild alliance (like 500+ players) was going OpenRvR, but now it's on hold, as we are thinking about going Core if OpenRvR does not get fixed.

It's entirely possible that the alliance will split up over this, cause every guild that is also serious about PvE will not go OpenRvR like it is, but guilds that hate PvE anyway still (maybe) want to go OpenRvR.

[deakster]

Actually, most guilds are waiting for the OpenRvR ruleset to change and it's all on hold.

Our guild alliance (like 500+ players) was going OpenRvR, but now it's on hold, as we are thinking about going Core if OpenRvR does not get fixed.

It's entirely possible that the alliance will split up over this, cause every guild that is also serious about PvE will not go OpenRvR like it is, but guilds that hate PvE anyway still (maybe) want to go OpenRvR.

I think its fair to assume it will change, although maybe not by launch. However if your whole guild goes and rolls on core, then the change wont matter, as you are now all on the core server. If the guild was serious about going open, I recommend you do and wait for the inevitable changes.

[skanka]

It is really nice to see so many players are excited about the announcement of open RVR. I for one am practically almost jizzing my pants at the prospect of being ganked and being the ganker.

As many of you have mentioned the dynamics and they way it is set up is always going to be arguable and in no way a non changeable process that mythic will not be able to adjust to our cries of change.

As some of you mentioned PVP is for some and for others it is not. Taking a light heart into the battle field can sometimes be a challenge, however it is always rewarding to know, after being ganked, that the gankee was trully enjoying himself.

The only real question that needs to be answered is:

When are other countries getting their Open RVR servers installed. :(

(i am sorry for this little cry, but haveing suffered under blizzard for almost 4 years, it would be almost unbearable to think the only Open RVR servers available are in other counties)

[Kahine]

Actually, most guilds are waiting for the OpenRvR ruleset to change and it's all on hold.

Our guild alliance (like 500+ players) was going OpenRvR, but now it's on hold, as we are thinking about going Core if OpenRvR does not get fixed.

It's entirely possible that the alliance will split up over this, cause every guild that is also serious about PvE will not go OpenRvR like it is, but guilds that hate PvE anyway still (maybe) want to go OpenRvR.


Actually , I don't see any official worldwide poll or scientific study that proves "most" are waiting for it to change - I feel safe in saying there are plenty who plan on going Open RvR server at launch

I just look forward to seeing what the "no one will play on these servers" have to say when there are thousands on them

[skyflashde]

I think its fair to assume it will change, although maybe not by launch. However if your whole guild goes and rolls on core, then the change wont matter, as you are now all on the core server. If the guild was serious about going open, I recommend you do and wait for the inevitable changes.

Well, I don't assume it will change, I want them to actually officially TELL us they want it to change in a future patch.

I don't think it's a good idea to have 500 players roll on an OpenRvR server, and then they find out they can't help their lower level guild comrades (which is quite normal in standard guilds) cause the high levelers turn to chicken.

I don't want to be one of the guys that told them to go OpenRvR "because we all do". I do not think the OpenRvR servers is playable to a "normal guild" that wants to do PvE and PvP.

The worst thing is then to wait for those changes that "really will definitely come" and make everything better.

No, sorry, I'd much rather have all those 500 people roll Core and they will be fine and not pissed at me. :P The most basic things are not working on those OpenRvR servers (accessing all content, helping guildies) and i really can't explain that to anyone.

Actually , I don't see any official worldwide poll or scientific study that proves "most" are waiting for it to change - I feel safe in saying there are plenty who plan on going Open RvR server at launch

I can say it different... ALL of the guilds I talked with (10 of 10 = 100%) are waiting how it changes til release. Is that scientific? No? Hell i don't care. :P

Yes you can feel safe, but is it true? Nobody knows. What is plenty? 10? 100? What does plan mean? Do they just plan it, but they don't buy the game, or will they actually buy the game, create a char on that server, or will they actually PLAY that character to level 40? Nobody knows, i guess.

Damn, you are sooo unscientific.

[drdarthvader]

I think most people who want to play on the core servers aren't scared of getting ganked at all. I know that I am gonna roll on a core server for one reason, that is that the action is gonna be bottlenecked to certain areas which means larger battles. ya, sure the battles will be kinda big on the open servers, but instead of wandering around the entire map looking for a fight, its nice to know there is a location i can go to and always have large scale battles. The purpose of this game is RvR so a lot (not all) of people want pvp. But why should mythic make their open rule set like every other game? if they did that, then they would be like every other game which is not a game they were striving for, they wanted something that stood out.

[Greyclaw]

I think open world pvp is fun when you're fighting people in your own level bracket. I like to fight, not be slaughtered. Also, I do not like to fight people who have no chance against me.. even in WoW I completely ignore anyone who is "grey" to me unless they attack first, or are attacking someone I know. And yes, I play on a pvp server.

I'd love it if the open pvp only applied to people in your own bracket. Essentially expanding the "lakes" to the entire zone. Anyone outside the level bracket simply CAN'T attack someone lower unless attacked first. I don't even know why the chicken is in the picture, other than comic relief.

However, gankers and would-be-heroes would hate this idea. I don't think you can please everyone, but the gankers win this round. Have fun being forced to play keeps a tier lower than your own until 40. <3

[Kaly]

Seems to me the only ppl crying about gankers and get getting griefed are ppl who arent hardcore pvpers to begin with and most likely rolling Core server, so they really shouldnt have any say or opinions on what Open server should be like.

Secondly, if they really want to have some sort of system in place it should be the one where they boost u down to the lvl of that tier so that we arent locked out of game content. It seems very unfair we pay same price for this game and same monthly fees as the core server players but because we have a different playstyle we get penalized for it. Its like going to a movie, paying full price and get told we have to leave half way through it.

[Garamis]

I sincerely hope they remove the chicken before launch. There are almost double the people waiting for this, and I feel it is just stopping people from not liking either ruleset much.

[Huma]

Any CM or Mythic employee care to explain to me why they don't disable the chicken for the friendly tier zones and only have the chicken mechanic work on the RvR areas and hostile areas?

Is there any gameplay reason against it?

I'd much rather have people chickened in any enemy and RvR zone below their tier, than have them chickened 1 tier later but also in friendly territory.

It absolutely does not make sense to me what Mythic is doing here, yes they did make the problem less bad but why didn't they just fix it? They don't even need to write new code, just grab the RvR flag code and plug it into the chicken mechanic...

Please, explain the problem to me, why don't you guys at Mythic just SOLVE the problems instead of this bad workaround (bad hack rather).

I mean, half of your LUA API is a bad hack, why put even more hacks into the game? :P

I just want some insight what the problem is... don't you have enough time now, but will fix it later, or will we be staying with this hack forever?

I don't wanna play like this, so if you say you will FIX the issue later so that chickens never happen on friendly territory, I will go OpenRvR, but if you say it's gonna stay like this forever, and you consider this a working mechanic, I will have to tell you that the OpenRvR servers are not gonna work out at all.

That 1 tier less chicken will introduce heavy griefing, both because

1) Level 40 players can go and kill level 20 players that just entered tier 3 and disable the tier 3 keep fights totally. Tier 3 will effectively be DEAD for gameplay, all RvR content will not be playable.

2) You cannot defend your tier 2 territory against organized griefer guilds that swarm your territory with numbers, because unless you can find an equally big anti-griefer guild that will stay around tier 2 level (lol?) to defend the area, there is no way a random group of people will be able to use any PvP / RvR content in tier 2 at all or get the territory back, as they cannot ask higher level players for help, they would just get chickened.

All in all, for gameplay reasons, your solution to OpenRvR ruleset WILL NOT WORK. Trust me.

The ruleset will disable both tier 2 and tier 3 content and the game will be a lot less enjoyable for OpenRvR servers because of the chicken.
Your solution of giving the chicken debuff only in the "enemy" zones is flawed. There is plenty of PvE content and tome unlocks to be had in "enemy" zones as well, so no that wouldn't "fix" the problem and I'm sure Mythic thought about that idea and came to the same conclusion I have.

[Huma]

Seems to me the only ppl crying about gankers and get getting griefed are ppl who arent hardcore pvpers to begin with and most likely rolling Core server, so they really shouldnt have any say or opinions on what Open server should be like.

Secondly, if they really want to have some sort of system in place it should be the one where they boost u down to the lvl of that tier so that we arent locked out of game content. It seems very unfair we pay same price for this game and same monthly fees as the core server players but because we have a different playstyle we get penalized for it. Its like going to a movie, paying full price and get told we have to leave half way through it.Really? So you questioned all the people who are complaining about gankers and griefers and they all said they are rolling Core? Gosh you did your research...

Well I did my research too and all the people who are "hardcore pvpers" don't care about tome unlocks cause those are PvE...so they don't care about the content once they level out of it. They just want to option to go back and gank. No really, I asked every single one of them...

[Air401]

Really? So you questioned all the people who are complaining about gankers and griefers and they all said they are rolling Core? Gosh you did your research...

Well I did my research too and all the people who are "hardcore pvpers" don't care about tome unlocks cause those are PvE...so they don't care about the content once they level out of it. They just want to option to go back and gank. No really, I asked every single one of them...

Way to rip a name there bud! Huma...

[Kaly]

Really? So you questioned all the people who are complaining about gankers and griefers and they all said they are rolling Core? Gosh you did your research...

Well I did my research too and all the people who are "hardcore pvpers" don't care about tome unlocks cause those are PvE...so they don't care about the content once they level out of it. They just want to option to go back and gank. No really, I asked every single one of them...

Did I say they were all rolling Core for sure? NO. Learn to read. I said most of them are most likely to.

[skyflashde]

Your solution of giving the chicken debuff only in the "enemy" zones is flawed. There is plenty of PvE content and tome unlocks to be had in "enemy" zones as well, so no that wouldn't "fix" the problem and I'm sure Mythic thought about that idea and came to the same conclusion I have.

Ah right, thats why Mythic made it even worse and now you can't even do the PvE content in your own zone.

I am sure Mythic thought about it briefly but thinks it's currently too much work for them. They sure as hell did not come to the same conclusion you have.

Please vote in my poll, so we see what most people actually want:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1445079#post1445079

[Ankor]

The current system seems a complete mess, What I would prefer to see is this:

Remove chicken mechanic completely.

Open RvR when you are appropriate level for that tier.

If you're too high level for that tier, you become unflagged for pvp automatically.

The lower tier is then treated as a pve area.

Make the tower guards unattackable to higher tier characters.

You would still remain attackable though and if attacked then could attack back without being chickened and then be unflagged once again after leaving combat.

Edit: As another option, I would love a 'deboulster' buff that lowers you to certain levels for that tier (like level 8 for tier 1) put a cap on maximum dps and buffs from equipment when under the effects and then you could remove the chicken mechanic completely. But that idea on it's own would not solve the lairs problem.

[Silentblade]

Wouldn't this mechanic screw lvl 40s out of completing lairs since theyre all in lower tier areas? I have visited the Lair of Morra and know that its full of level 40 mobs. So that tells me this is for the end game player base, but if thats the case how would the players playing on the Open Servers be able to do them? Also I have been informed that all other lairs found also happen to be in Tier 1 and Tier 2 and that they are all level 40 mobs.

Bump for answer

[Ouchy Dathurts]

Seriously the only fix I see is to make the chicken work when attacking someone outside our tier. Better yet make them explode. I've said before I'm the most PVP, competitive person around. If I've got the choice of fighting a person or a computer I'm taking the person every single time. It's far more complex than any computer in the world.

This new system really destroys that by allowing people to gank. Honestly no one that calls themselves a true PVPer gets any joy out of doing that. This is what you get when you pander to the lowest common denominator.

I've got ZERO concern over going back for PVE stuff. I couldn't possibly care less if you paid me. PVE is just a means to an end and in this game it's not even that. However some people do seem to care about doing that old crap and that's fine, whatever. But allowing people that "want" to do that while in the same stroke taking the chicken away to let them do so completely kills the competitive PVP aspect. It's cutting off the nose to spite the face. Here, you can go do some of those old PQs while still playing on a "PVP" server. You're also going to have to deal with the pale, friendless, virgins who want to gank for no other reason than getting their rocks off.

Gankers are one thing for me. They're annoying till I decide to turn the table on them till they log out. They're an annoyance that are going to come with any game with a system based on what they decided to make these servers based on. They're awful players at the end of the day and that's where they need to go to feel superiority. Now with this new system my friends have to deal with them to play the game with me. At least 2 of them are female and want to play but their idea of fun isn't some lonely loser coming up and ripping their face off without a chance to fight back. PVP in a competitive environment where everyone has a fair shake they can get behind, but this system murders that and leaves them by the wayside. I'm more than willing to put up with them and giving it back 10 fold but they won't be. Which means their husband's won't be.

The people that scream for a truely open server should go back and look at DAoC's completely open PVP server, it's a ghost town. Within a few months of launching them they had all but cleared out. Not as many people want that as you might think.

The old chicken system wasn't perfect, but it was far superior to this system they're pushing out the door now. This new system allows for a more PVP centered server that allows for questing in old tiers with the added bonus of gankers as far as the eye can see. Certain areas will be completely dead.

I'm a colossal PVPer at heart but this isn't the way. This is the answer for a question no one asked. Open up PVE to anyone who wants to backtrack for whatever reason, I've got no qualms with that but put something in place to stop the ganking. Chicken on attacking an enemy player 1 tier lower at least.

I'd eat my own hat if you opened up both styles of server. Chicken on attack and this new "open" PVP server and the "open" server was more populated. Let alone in the long run.

[Haqutta]

I think it was a mistake for EA/Mythic to back off of their original position. There was nothing wrong with their original vision of Open RvR. It was daring and deserved a chance to succeed or fail in it's original form.

All those crying about Tomb unlocks as a reason to go down to lower Tiers with your ultimate goal of getting rid of the chicken mechanic, consider this...

When your Tier 4 zones are getting rocked and your city is about to be opened or fall to the enemy, was it simply because the enemy organized and out played you, or was it because many of your Tier 4 players were off in Tier 3 (remove the chicken mechanic and they could be in Tier 1 and 2) "getting Tomb unlock" <wink wink> and doing anything and everything else other than participating in the "ultimate RvR experience"?

Isn't every facet of progression in this game building to Tier 4 and ultimately city siege? Will owning Tier 1 through Tier 3 really tilt the success/failure in Tier 4 such that the Teir 4 players won't be able to overcome the challenge of working from a deficit? Give your lower Tier players a purpose for going through the lower Tiers, instead of basically telling them "level and level quickly or die".

IMO, this change is proof whining and crying works. They could of rolled it out as is, see if it failed or succeeded, and then make a change to this compromise or complete removal of the chicken mechanic if it didn't work out.

[Murashu]

I agree with Ouchy. This is not a PvE centric game and Mythic should not change the chicken rule just to make the PvEers happy on an Open RvR server. Just like high level toons should never farm low level toons, they have no reason farming low level PvE content. Players have asked for a fix for this for many many years and Mythic has finally found a way around it but they changed it for the minority of players who like farming low level content on their high lvl toon.

Let the PvE folks farm low lvl areas on the Core servers but please don't punish the low level PvPers on the Open servers.

[Skizzix]

Is this server suppose to be up yet, or are they just letting us know that it will be available after main launch?

[Nzo]

I agree with Ouchy. This is not a PvE centric game and Mythic should not change the chicken rule just to make the PvEers happy on an Open RvR server. Just like high level toons should never farm low level toons, they have no reason farming low level PvE content. Players have asked for a fix for this for many many years and Mythic has finally found a way around it but they changed it for the minority of players who like farming low level content on their high lvl toon.

Let the PvE folks farm low lvl areas on the Core servers but please don't punish the low level PvPers on the Open servers.

I guess you dont realize that the reason these 'pve folks' find the lairs to be important is that is where the end-game gear comes from. I guess all those serious hardcore pvpers are SO HARDCORE they can win without gear. In other games thats called being gimp.

[James_EAMythic]

Hey all,

Rakarth is now coming back online. Thank you and our apologies for not notifying you of it's unavailability earlier.

Have fun...WAAAGH!!!