Orc shammys and rouges?

[Huckbuck]

In some of the old WAR pics you can see orcs wearing leather armour and bows, as well as orcs wearing a skull helmet and using a staff to cast magic. Are theese classes deleted, or do you think that all Greenskin classes will be both orc and goblins? For instance, you could be a goblin Choppa, or an Orc shaman. I think this would work, instead of male / female we have Orc / Gobbo. We have seen pics of goblins wearing warrior armour and such, so I think they have at least considered this idea, but maybe changed it to DPS /Tank= Orc and Caster /Ranged= Gobbo

What do you think?

[Adendan]

No, it's been decided.
Shaman and Squig Herder = Goblin
Choppa and Warboss = Orc

And how Rogues made it into the title, I don't know. But there won't be any stealther type of rogues at least, possibly some high DPS melee, but none so far.

[Huckbuck]

I think that sucks, I mean it was in before, just check this pic:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=98&c=4

You can see both an orc shammy and an orc archer.

Maybe the choppa will be able to use bow??

[War Weasel]

I thought I read that Choppas do have some kind of range ability. I thought this meant just the use of throwing axes and such. But maybe they'll be able to use bows, like Heroes in DAoC.

[Huckbuck]

It would be great with Choppas as a multi class with both close combat and ranged. Maybe not as a shaman though...

[dutch_gamer]

I think that sucks, I mean it was in before, just check this pic:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=98&c=4

You can see both an orc shammy and an orc archer.

Maybe the choppa will be able to use bow??

The pictures that you are looking at are from pre-alpha. I don't think you can base anything on those pictures. You can't really say that something was in, because none of the careers were even done. Mythic was so nice to show us screenshots of the game from before they even finalized the careers for the first two pairings. They couldn't show us a single screenshot if everyone would get annoyed if they show us something that isn't in anymore, a couple of months later. That is just one thing you have got to realize when you are looking into a game that is still in development. Everything you see can change.

And no, that is not a Choppa. The career Choppa has gotten a whole lot of name changes and skill changes, before they finally decided on the Orc Choppa.

[Huckbuck]

Well, lets change this thread a tad bit then, the new question:

Do you think that there should be Orc Archers and Shammys?

[War Weasel]

No. I think it'd be nice for maybe a Choppa to have basic bow skill, enough to maybe hit someone, but he'd basically be shooting spit wads. But I'm basically just expecting throwing axe ability. And if you allow Orcs to be Shamans and Squig Herders, then you'd have to do the same for Goblins, allowing them to be Choppas and Black... Goblins. I like the system the way it is, this way the race is Greenskins and not just Orcs. I think Goblins are an important part of greenskin society and shouldn't be left out.

[Waynolt]

It's rogue not rouge, you numnuts.

[War Weasel]

It's numb, numbnuts.

[mouldylock]

orcs iz rubbish at bows an' rubbish at sneaking cuz we be better at choppaz in yorr face!!! sneakin' an' shootin'- dat iz for coward oomies and panzee elfz!!!
orcs dat got bows iz weak snots dat I iz too weak!!!! and small!!! deyz not tuff enuff for real fightin':mrgreen:
and there's a bunch of reasons orc shamans can't be in, because then who would pick a goblin? orc shamans are farr more strongerer

[Waynolt]

It's numb, numbnuts.
Actually, it is numnuts.

[Ethandril]

I really don't know why Orcs can't be a shaman and a goblin not a Choppa, but there
will be reasons for it.

Anyways, in TT there are Orc shamans and some kind of Goblin Choppas...

Take a look:

Orc and Goblin Shamans (http://uk.games-workshop.com/orcsandgoblins/miniature-gallery/4/)

Goblin Heros (Choppa like) (http://uk.games-workshop.com/orcsandgoblins/miniature-gallery/5/)

[Hyrus]

Spelling rogue as "rouge" should be a bannable offense. I'm serious.

I couldn't read a thing mouldylock wrote.

Once again, I agree that it is a shame we can't see orc shamen and goblin choppas. The greatest reason for the decision, in my eyes, is that Mythic probably wants goblins to keep their frail and cowardly themes while orcs retain their powerful and durable themes in combat. Claims that statistical imbalances between the two is ignorant. Claims that allowing both goblins and orcs to be more then 2 classes each equats to more than 4 classes is grossly ignorant. However, the theme arguement makes sense and, as much as I don't like it, it really isn't that big of a deal.

[Kazgut]

except of course for the fact that a gobblin choppa would have been totally awsome :(.

[Krulltak]

I really don't know why Orcs can't be a shaman and a goblin not a Choppa, but there
will be reasons for it.

Anyways, in TT there are Orc shamans and some kind of Goblin Choppas...

Take a look:

Orc and Goblin Shamans (http://uk.games-workshop.com/orcsandgoblins/miniature-gallery/4/)

Goblin Heros (Choppa like) (http://uk.games-workshop.com/orcsandgoblins/miniature-gallery/5/)

That be a gobbo Warboss, and we don't want powerful Warbosses being playable.

Also, if you allowed orc shamans, who would play a gobbo?

Also, gobbos just to weedy and cowardly to be in the melee

[Huckbuck]

I changed the title, you mr. know-it-all smart asses.

[versuvius]

that made no sense...

[Huckbuck]

It didnt? Oh well, I changed it, hope it makes sense now. Like I said, im not from an english speaking country.

[mouldylock]

I couldn't read a thing mouldylock wrote.


haha what was wrong with what I wrote it was perfectly orcy :-P
I will translate- orcs are rubbish at ranged combat (other than war machines) and rubbish at sneaking, because what self respecting orc would ever sneak? that's more of a gobbo thing... also orc shamans couldn't be possible because there is a big gap in power between a goblin shammy and an orc shammy so to make them the same (in order to be balanced) would be doing them an injustice as mentioned in some other thread.

[versuvius]

aye even i can read it now ty

[Snorri]

Think about it logically.

There are no goblin Choppaz/Melee focused careers... because they are puny and weak. Goblins tend to attack in numbers; not as one-on-one toe-to-toe fighters. A single goblin fighting a single dwarf or a human or an elf or even a bloody wolf hasn't got a very good chance of survival. In fact it will probably die in a matter of moments.

It would be like making Gnomes Warriors in WoW. They would look ridiculous and unrealistic.

So they gave them classes that goblins can excel at on their own 1v1: Squig Herders and Shaman... both of which focus on ranged damage as opposed to swinging axes and using brute power and toughness.

An orc is too clumsy to fire a bow, and to mighty to want a squiggy little pet, and they prefer crashing skulls and splitting bones up front. They have the strength to stomp on da stuntiez, split open da 'umies and rip off da elfiez headz!

Hence why da real fightin’ is left for da big green orcz.
And the magic and archery is left for da gobbies.


Goblin tanks!
*Splutters with laughter!*
:cool:

[versuvius]

i see what you mean...ny ways goblins are usually archers or shamans...or the idiots use themselves as catapult ammo...i think ill try it ...OOOOOH SHIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! hey look i can see my house from here *OW*

[Greenskins own all!]

Just thought i'd mention, a Gobbo version of a choppa would probably be a Night Goblin Berserker, the main differance being one is drugged and swinging around with a giant ball and chain and the other one isn't. But Gobbo berserkers would be crap as a class because you'd have to die several seconds into combat when you misfire and you collapse from exhaustion or you get beated to death with the ball you're trying to swing!

[Oddeye]

Orcs do use bows, Arrer Boyz are a whole unit of them. Goblins can fight one-to-one. A goblin hero will totally waste a regular human, dwarf or elf and vise-versa.

A goblin's sheer craftiness, trickiness and deviousness is enough to compensate for their small stature or any other weakness they may have. In game terms you could have a goblin melee unit that takes dirty fighting to a new extreme. Tough to hit but can't take too much punishment.

What they should have done was instead of giving grenskins a male or female choice for each class, they should have made it a choice between orc or goblin for all but the black orcs. Even then they could have used hob-goblins or invented some super-tough "black goblin".

[mouldylock]

Orcs do use bows, Arrer Boyz are a whole unit of them. Goblins can fight one-to-one.
yeah arrer boyz use bows but they're crap at them :S and are basically normal boys but with a ranged attack- I think they have the exact same stats lemme go check...
yeah they do
and isn't there a rule somewhere goblins only dare attack a unit if they outnumber them 3-1?(or somthing like that):rolleyes:

[versuvius]

well arrer boys a crap shots but the barrage of arrows in an army of enemies is devastating..who need accuracy

[Black Razor]

I think that sucks, I mean it was in before, just check this pic:

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=98&c=4

You can see both an orc shammy and an orc archer.

Maybe the choppa will be able to use bow??

Those are likly orc NPCs. There will be NPCs of the player races too ya know.

[versuvius]

i hope so ne ways

[Huckbuck]

Orcs do use bows, Arrer Boyz are a whole unit of them. Goblins can fight one-to-one. A goblin hero will totally waste a regular human, dwarf or elf and vise-versa.

A goblin's sheer craftiness, trickiness and deviousness is enough to compensate for their small stature or any other weakness they may have. In game terms you could have a goblin melee unit that takes dirty fighting to a new extreme. Tough to hit but can't take too much punishment.

What they should have done was instead of giving grenskins a male or female choice for each class, they should have made it a choice between orc or goblin for all but the black orcs. Even then they could have used hob-goblins or invented some super-tough "black goblin".


That was what I said in the begining, if they dont do that I think we will have less variety among the greenskins then in any other army. For example, Empires have 4 classes, everyone of them can be female or male resulting in 8 different variations, while Greenskins have 4 classes, but no male / female, resulting in 4 different variations.

[versuvius]

so when you die (if your greenskin) can you spore and make loads of likkle orcses

[Krulltak]

With greenskins, you can just boil it down to 'male' and 'female' choice like you can with other races. Orcs and Goblins are too different from each other. Goblins are to weak and cowardly to fight. Orcs are to impatient to train squigs. And Sure orcs can be wyrdboyz, but it just makes more sense have the gobbo be the shammy for PC.

[Oddeye]

With greenskins, you can just boil it down to 'male' and 'female' choice like you can with other races. Orcs and Goblins are too different from each other. Goblins are to weak and cowardly to fight. Orcs are to impatient to train squigs. And Sure orcs can be wyrdboyz, but it just makes more sense have the gobbo be the shammy for PC.

There are plenty of Orcs who either use squigs, ride squigs or train squigs. If Orcs can take the time to train boars to pull chariots and to be ridable then they can train squigs.

Besides almost all Orcs use squigs in everyday life for a variety of jobs, such as hair for example and many Orc bosses keep squigs as pets.

[Krulltak]

True, but it just makes so much more sense when you give gobbos the crafty and sneaky and magicky jobs while orcs beat the crap out of things with large metal things. An orc could be a Squig Herder or Shaman, but a goboo can't be a Black Orc or Orc Choppa.

[Oddeye]

True, but it just makes so much more sense when you give gobbos the crafty and sneaky and magicky jobs while orcs beat the crap out of things with large metal things. An orc could be a Squig Herder or Shaman, but a goboo can't be a Black Orc or Orc Choppa.

Yeah fair enough. The whole arguement is pointless anyway since I doubt it's going to be changed.

[Ripple]

And yet we keep posting.
Someone STOP THE MADNESS!!!
...well this particular madness :p

[versuvius]

yeh and maybe an ork warboss could fire human spears out of a big composite bow...not taking the piss

[versuvius]

heheh yeh a black goblin squigboss

[Ripple]

Versuvius, destroyer of threads!!! He has come!!!!
Watch as he double posts instead of editing!!!
Fear him!!!!

[versuvius]

is it illegal to double post?? oh damn...SORRY OH MIGHTY MODS! or grungi...or even THEBIGBLACKBUDDHAWITHARAIBOWAFFRO! hes my god of a new religion i have! i have 30 followers!