How does guild xp work?

[pimpjuice]

I have been trying to figure out how the guild xp is working and wondered if anyone has any numbers on it yet. I have read that the larger your guild is the less each individual player will contribute. So basically a small hardcore guild will level faster than a large zerg guild that invites anyone and everyone and their alts. That's a smart way to do it imo but I was wondering if there was some type of formula or something to determine how much you contribute from pve and rvr and how that changes with the guild size.

[Gaarawarr]

Unfortunately, it doesn't accrue XP the moment anyone else does. It seems to store it up and update occasionally in bursts. I was trying to see how it worked by leaving the screen up as I did quests, but it didn't update at all and then after about 10 minutes got a huge burst of XP. I'd be interested to find out exactly how it works, but the only way to truly know would be to run a 1-man guild to control the input of XP.

[Illudian]

Im curious to this mechanic aswell.

Maybe we can put down EXP needed for certain guild levels and mention how many members are in the guild?

For instance:
Guild level 3 - 1,5m EXP needed * - 10 members

* no idea about current numbers, servers are down..

[Neroh]

Im curious to this mechanic aswell.

Maybe we can put down EXP needed for certain guild levels and mention how many members are in the guild?

For instance:
Guild level 3 - 1,5m EXP needed * - 10 members

* no idea about current numbers, servers are down..

If you want to do this, simply goto wardb.com's guild listings (http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=10#guilds:0+5+6+1) and work it out! I'm too lazy.

P.S. you can find the guild renown pts by clicking on a guild for details.

[Cobalty2004]

I read it is renown gained by members, and INF gained through PQs by members.

[Andrus73]

Unfortunately, it doesn't accrue XP the moment anyone else does. It seems to store it up and update occasionally in bursts. I was trying to see how it worked by leaving the screen up as I did quests, but it didn't update at all and then after about 10 minutes got a huge burst of XP. I'd be interested to find out exactly how it works, but the only way to truly know would be to run a 1-man guild to control the input of XP.

One issue is that a guild doesn't gain xp by a member doing quests. Only PQs (influence) and RvR (renown) count towards guild xp.

[Ashin]

Sorry for my duplicate thread - I didn't see this one for some reason.

Anyway, where has it been confirmed that only INF contributes to guild XP? (Assuming only renown contributes to renown xp.)

I did ask a CSR in-game for input. And the CSR answered vaguely, but said that essentially any activity which generates experience for a player would also generate experience for the guild. So her answer at least didn't make it sound like INF-only.

I think it is reasonable to ask Mythic to explain these mechanics better. And I'm concerned about penalizing folks for having alts in the guild. After all, with 40 levels, Mythic is counting on replayability. Alts are a big part of that for many people.

[Enigma7337]

Through out beta and now live..

It's roughly 25% of any and all XP a player earns is shared with the guild.

Renown and Inf have nothing to do with it.

[Flictus]

I logged in earlier today (I was the only person on out of my 9 person guild) and did two scenarios. I got scenario exp and completed two quests (player kill and play scenario quests). Both times approximately 75% of the total exp I gained was added to guild experience.

[Ashin]

Through out beta and now live..

It's roughly 25% of any and all XP a player earns is shared with the guild.

Renown and Inf have nothing to do with it.

Well I'm sure the Guild's renown has something to do with renown tho.

[Andrus73]

Through out beta and now live..

It's roughly 25% of any and all XP a player earns is shared with the guild.

Renown and Inf have nothing to do with it.

So what happens with your calculation where the members hit rank 40 and the guild isn't 40 yet?

[AODEaSyKiLL]

The difference probably comes because the EXP for each level is not the same for a guild as it is for a player.

A simple possible equation could be something like:

(1/P) x G = EXP Donation

Were P = the # of people in guild

And G = The EXP or Renown gained

Im sure it is much more complex though

[Singed]

The difference probably comes because the EXP for each level is not the same for a guild as it is for a player.

A simple possible equation could be something like:

(1/P) x G = EXP Donation

Were P = the # of people in guild

And G = The EXP or Renown gained

Im sure it is much more complex though

Yeah, I don't think that equation would work. By that equation, the guild is being rewarded for having fewer players, but really if a guild is to be strong and popular it should have more players.

Seeing as how renown is given in smaller amounts than exp, I would expect there to be several forumlas for how much experience a guild receives based upon guild population and the exp/renown/inf earned by each player. Also, if we factored level in, it should be the average level of all guild members.

My guess, if we were to use a forumla, I would say:

Total Contribution = [Renown/Exp/Influence Earned] x [(Average Level of Guild/Guild Population)]

Example:

Singe earned 3000 renown and 8750 exp in a scenario. His guild has 150 players and the average level is 12.

Example:
Contribution = [3000 renown] x [(12/150)]
Contribution = [3000 renown] x [0.08]
Contribution = [240 renown]


Contribution = [8750 exp] x [(12/150)]
Contribution = [8750 exp] x [0.08]
Contribution = [700 exp]

Seems pretty simple

[Jarathorn]

I think Singed is right, or very close.

My guild is mauling over having alts in the guild; I think they are a bad thing for us. We have 50 members currently, so if everyone makes at least one alt, it is easy to say that our experience will cease to move. Now the argument has been made that if someone is playing all the time even if they have an alt, it is ok for the the reason that they would still be contributing, however our guild would still take a penalty because of that person's other character occupying a guild member slow, thus increasing how much it takes to level.

Any further information on this matter. I am trying to put guild alt policies in place and want the facts before I start bringing this discussion to my guild's roundtable.

[cyfir]

Has it been confirmed that guild xp factors guild size into the calculation? If so, could someone link to that confirmation?

[Jarathorn]

I wouldn't say confirmed, but there are some posts about an interview with Mark where it was stated the same thing that can be found on the HammerWiki:

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Guild


I can't find anything on the Mythic newsletters / site about it.

[Lukiduk]

As this is a current topic in my guild, I too am frustrated about the official noncommital stance on the subject. It is never clear if overall guild size has anything to do with it ... or if it is dependent on active players .. i.e. the more players active at one time, the more their individual contributions would be reduced .. so a guild with 100 ppl online at one time would only earn a trickle from each person, while later on in the night with only 10 ppl online each person would be getting the full contribution..

Although this would still favor a larger guild, since the smaller guilds could not field ppl all hours of the day like the larger guild ... it would slow down an otherwise meteoric rise to the top.

Or It could be just a static base number calculation, which seems to be the basic theory dominating this thread.

I just wish that mythic would kindly step in and say if it is one way or another since it is causing a lot of needless contention in many guilds.

[OzSkeeter]

It has been stated that having alts in the guild (ie. a larger guild) does not reduce the guild XP value of an individual member.

Sorry I can't on the spot provide a link, but I read it only in the last couple of days.

[kashak]

My guild allows one alt per player and our guild Xp rate is fine (if there is an impact of alts, it is small enough that a strong memberbase will counter it) . We are keeping up with most of the big guilds out there.

[Iniki]

read grab bag #1

it specifically states that having more players in a guild will not increase the amount of exp you need

[SwordmasterCyris]

read grab bag #1

it specifically states that having more players in a guild will not increase the amount of exp you need


No, it doesn't say it nearly that clearly. It says that inactive alts don't effect the XP rate.

NOTHING to date has been clear cut and dry on the topic. The base question, "does guild size effect how fast you level" is still unanswered, as is the subquest, "does having alts impact the rate you level"

[Lucretius]

No, it doesn't say it nearly that clearly. It says that inactive alts don't effect the XP rate.

NOTHING to date has been clear cut and dry on the topic. The base question, "does guild size effect how fast you level" is still unanswered, as is the subquest, "does having alts impact the rate you level"

It seems to be based more on "Number of Players Currently Logged In" than the total size of the guild. In beta, I'm told that people were "power leveling" their guilds by /gquitting when they were finished grinding for the day because it was factoring the total size of the guild into xp gain of the guild.

So the idea was that by lowering the size of the guild when not logged in by /gquitting, other members who were logged in doing things were made stronger contributors.

To stop this, Mythic changed one of the variables in the calculation from "Total Number of Players in the Guild" to "Number of players currently logged in."

It makes sense to me given the following personal experience:
There is a Large "Zerg Guild" on our server with 300+ members. Anytime you /who <zerg guild> it returns the maximum number of results from the query (30 names) because at all times there are at least 30 people logged in from that guild. In reality there are many more than 30, but always at least 30. In <The Umbrella Corporation> there are almost never 30 people on at the same time. 15-25 is the norm, but while we're online we're usually PQ grinding and queuing up for Scenarios. We earn a lot of renown from Scenarios because we generally always win. <zerg guild> doesn't win as much. We are currently Guild Rank 17, and they are Guild Rank 16.

It's obviously true that the number of people logged in effects the amount that an Individuals Renown/Influence adds to guild experience.

Hypothesis:
6 people are logged in from Umbrella
60 people are logged in from ZergGuild

6 people from Umbrella and 6 people from ZergGuild play with one another in the same scenario and everyone in the scenario gets the exact same amount of Renown.

Umbrella's guild XP grew 10x more from that one Scenario than did ZergGuild's XP.

Or.

6 people from Umbrella farm Chapter 17 PQ's until all six members have "Elite" influence.
60 people from ZergGuild would need to farm Chapter 17 PQ's and get "Elite" influence in order to gain the same amount of Guild XP as Umbrella.

Again, all I have is personal experience.

[PekkaR]

Just note that in addition there's a timer, probably between 15 minutes and several hours, for counting the members online. So people don't have everybody except 1 log out while he turns in quests or something...

[Lucretius]

Just note that in addition there's a timer, probably between 15 minutes and several hours, for counting the members online. So people don't have everybody except 1 log out while he turns in quests or something...

That would also explain why it feels like we gain more guild XP in the mornings than we do during prime time. With a rolling average of "people online" being lowest during the mornings because almost no one plays all night.

[Milkshakes]

So, we've confirmed that:



Player population does play a part in the guild, but not (completely)negatively.
The on-line population factors into the amount earned(this can be confirmed by the alt topic)
Renown definitely effects the Guild Rank.
The internal Guild Roster updates every 10-15 minutes to stop log-out/in abuse.


Now. We need to figure out:



Does EXP effect the Guild Rank?
Does INF effect the Guild Rank?
Do these values effect the Guild Rank differently?
To what degree does having more people online effect the amount of Renown earned?

[Somand]

Not really my field, and this is probably blatantly obvious.

There is also likely a mechanic that limits the amount a player can contribute to guild,

Example: Players can contribute 10% of their exp max.

Why?
To limit the effectiveness of 1 man guilds.

If players didn't have a contribution cap a 1 man character in a guild played 24/7 would be the fastest way to level a guild.

So I'm thinking that if players contribute 10% max, then 10 players online contributing 10% each is the most effective way to level, with anything more than 10 players online not actually increasing the rate of guild leveling, but not harming it either.


Why is this important?

Because maybe if what I say is true the most effective way to level a guild is to form squads of players, in this example, squads of 10 to level, the log off and be replaced by the next 10.

Assuming this is true it's evident how this rewards hardcore guilds with a small to medium amount of players, which have enough players to reach 100% contribution when their maximum player contributions are added up (10% each).

Such a system also punishes people trying to exploit the system by having extremely small guilds with hardcore levelers.

Ie. 6 Man guild do a scenario with 10 man guild.

All members receive equal exp.

In the 6 man guild only 60% of the exp is contributed to the guild exp (Assuming player contribution cap is 10%)

In the 10 man guild 100% of the exp is contributed to the guild exp (Assuming player contribution cap is 10%).

Again, my point was probably obvious to most, but still the question it raises, what is a players max contribution?

[LeviathanXIII]

Formula is strikingly simple.

(xp gained)/(number of players currently online) = (guild xp contribution)

Simple as that.

Tested on a two man guild.

This means the following:

- Alts don't hurt guild xp at all, except indirectly by keeping player level low
- Higher level players will always contribute more assuming they are gaining xp
- What DOES hurt xp badly is a large % of players online but not actively leveling. This means RP-focused guilds will level far slower, something I can verify from personal experience.
- The ideal situation is for all players presently online to be gaining xp and for there to be players gaining xp on at all hours. Large guilds WILL level faster merely by having players online at odd hours, assuming most players online are leveling.

So if your guild is focused on leveling and is not an RP guild, then the folks you need to get onto are not the alt players but the idlers who hang out in camps all day or AFK for extended periods. They are nerfing the xp contribution of everyone else who is online and leveling.

I make no recommendations on action based on this info, just telling the facts as they are.

[LeviathanXIII]

*repeat post, my bad*

[Smasher78]

So what happens when one member hits 40 and can't contribute any more XP? Is the XP he would earn still invisibly tallied up, or does his Renown count, or is he not factored into the formula, or what?

This is where the theory stops making sense; only zerg guilds would be able to max out their guild rank, and guilds with 40's would be punished.

[LeviathanXIII]

So what happens when one member hits 40 and can't contribute any more XP? Is the XP he would earn still invisibly tallied up, or does his Renown count, or is he not factored into the formula, or what?

This is where the theory stops making sense; only zerg guilds would be able to max out their guild rank, and guilds with 40's would be punished.

I'll tell you in a week or so when the two characters presently in my two-man guild hit 40.

I suspect they continue to contribute invisible xp. I bet a lot of folks didn't know that you continue to gain invisible, useless INF from PQs that you've finished. I know this to be true because I have unlocked INF titles grinding PQs in chapters I've already maxed INF in.

Additionally, your point is perfectly valid and because a rank 40 guild is not going to be easy to achieve no matter what, and Mythic surely wants and expects people to spend the majority of their long-term play career at level 40, not allowing them to contribute to guild xp would cause many to roll alts and leave T4, which is undesirable.

I expect 40s will still contribute xp but I'll wait for tests to prove one way or the other.

There is also no maximum % contribution. One player can contribute 100% if he's the only one online.

[Gaarawarr]

So what happens when one member hits 40 and can't contribute any more XP? Is the XP he would earn still invisibly tallied up, or does his Renown count, or is he not factored into the formula, or what?

This is where the theory stops making sense; only zerg guilds would be able to max out their guild rank, and guilds with 40's would be punished.

You continue to earn XP based off what you're killing, it just isn't shown to you. I've watched my guild xp go up when I'm the only one online and I'm lvl 40.

[LeviathanXIII]

For completists, this fun fact:

Rest xp does not contribute anything to guild xp. If you gain xp while you have a pool of rest xp, you will gain double your normal xp but the guild contribution will be based on your normal xp gain.

So if killing x mob normally gives you 400 xp, and you have a pool of rest xp, your personal gain is 800 xp. However, the formula for guild contribution in this case is:

400/(players online)

not

800/(players online)

Long story short, you have to level guilds the hard way, no rest farming this one. Perhaps yet another minor, indirect way in which alts are not really harmful to a guild, but don't much help it either, since many alt players intentionally build up massive rest xp for the purpose of speed leveling their characters. The only way to level a guild is through solid play time, preferably on high level characters doing high xp gain activities.

Still not confirmed for certain if direct xp bonuses like BOs, keeps, tome xp, and PQ bonuses, or even quest xp, contribute. The way the guild xp bar updates in spurts makes it hard to determine without a rather prolonged testing session during which you do nothing else, and can only be seen for certain if you record exact xp numbers. Luckily that's a pretty small thing and won't likely matter much.

[Decayed]

last night we couldnt' find any destro and took some bo's and keeps, i think the max renown i got from any rvr kills was under 100 and i was the only person on in my guild and i lvl'd it close to 30k in guild xp. now, this could also have been holdover when others were online, since it doesn't update instantly, but i'm pretty sure you get gxp from bo's and keeps.

also, i disagree with "players online" being the only factor in calculating guild xp rate. look at the top guild ranks on different servers, almost all are small, under 30 members. i think the percentage of xp that you make which goes towards guild xp is based on the number of players online in the last 24 hours (24 hours is a random number, could be 12, could be 48 i dunno)

xp = xp your guild members have gained recently
gmo = guild members online right now
gmp = guild members online previously in the last 24 hours

so the equation is something like
xp * gmo / gmp = guild xp

so let's say you have 20 members in guild and all 20 members were on recently and each earned 10k xp (200k xp total) the full 200k xp is going towards guild rank. (200k xp * 20/20)

let's say you have 20 members in guild and 15 were on recently. 10 members online atm each earns 10k xp (100k xp total) the amount that goes towards guild xp is 66k (150k * 10 / 15)

my math is probably not 100% correct but i'm pretty certain there is a factor that goes beyond simply who is online at the given moment.

this still falls in line with leviathan's example... but maybe i'm completely off the mark here :)

it's just i know that some larger guilds have 20+ people on daily but not the same 20+ whereas some hardcore guilds have 20 people on daily but the same people and the smaller guilds lvl considerably faster. of course this could be due to other factors such as lvl (gain more xp/renown at higher lvls) activity, hardcore 20 is doing more things while zerg 20 are kinda messing around more.

also there is a theory that the groupings that mythic puts guilds in 1-25 members, 25-100 members, 100+ members may have an impact as well.

[LeviathanXIII]

I think you're seeking a needlessly complex solution to a pretty obviously simple problem.

[Decayed]

I think you're seeking a needlessly complex solution to a pretty obviously simple problem.

It's not only based on who's online at the exact moment xp is counted.

That's an oversimplification and your 2 man guild does not prove that.

[Wardyr]

You continue to earn XP based off what you're killing, it just isn't shown to you. I've watched my guild xp go up when I'm the only one online and I'm lvl 40.


This is correct. Even when completing scenarios at R40, it shows the xp and renown earned. Even if you are capped, it goes toward your guild rank.