Will Shamans Become a 'Medic' Class?

[Daris]

Now despite what has been said time and time again I can easily see Shamans and Zealots becoming a medic class now I don';t know if anyone agrees with me but let me present the evidence:

1. Only Greenskins/Chaos with healing abilities
2. A similar thing happend with Druids in world of warcraft who were designed for combat roles with shifting to healing briefly they became a static healer
3.People who don't understand the game or how the classes are designed will pressure many a shamn into playing out the role of medic

[Krulltak]

They shouldn't be, but noobs will make them.

[Jangar]

Seeing as how Shamans will have to attack to build WAAAGH! in order to heal. I assume that they will have to do a mix of both in order to be effective.

[Daris]

yeah but think of it this way, when you got ur WAAGGH up that when itll be "Shaman go stand over by that tree and make sure the Blorc doesn't get killed"

[vehemoth]

It depends what you mean by medic. If you mean medic as in they are a traditional heal bot, everyone who follows WAR can tell you otherwise.

I see them as a support class, one who helps to carry on the fight in team play situation. A large part of the shaman class is healing and buffing. There is also the offensive elements, debuffs and nukes. To properly play a support class like the shaman once must do whatever is most strategic at the time, whether it is full healing and buffing, fully offensive, or a logistically appropriate mix of both.

[Daris]

not exactly a traditional Healbot but a healbot in it's own right. I cna see the shaman going in building up WAAAGGH (like a warrior would build up rage in WoW) then he goes and stands on the outside heal boting till he needs to repeat the process

[Aqe]

The best way to do a impact on a fight is alterate betwean dmg and healing all the time.
In Daoc as a healer it was sometimes better to cast spells to interupt and remove buffs from enemy instead of healing.

A caster is nuking one in your team for 1000dps, you can either heal your target using up all your mana and the caster kill your teammate after that, Or you can use a tiny bit of mana to interupt the caster long enough for others to get out of range or kill it.

So its only a heal bot when you cant do anything to prevent the damage done in the first place by interupt or killing the dmg dealer.

[mouldylock]

seeing as all classes seem to have limited self heals from morale, and the shaman needs to attack to be able to heal.... I don't think it's gonna be that much of an issue and it's part of his job, don't think he'll have to heal that regularly seeing as he'll only be able to heal once he's built up waaagh:p so he won't be at the back healing over n over he'll be
blam blam blam blam
heal
blam blam blam bloosh
heal
etc:shock: ...

[Aquinas]

As Jangar said, you need to be in the fight to get your WAAGH and WAAGH attacks seems to require quite alot of WAAGH, so this makes the shaman more of a meele fighter then a medic. As Paul said, there will be NO ONLY healing classes, because its BORING, and damn thats true. There's basicilly four types of classes so far;

:arrow: Tank
:arrow: DPS
:arrow: Support
:arrow: Range

Time will tell, there will be changes... (gosh, that should be signature...)

[Nemes1s]

You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively. You can maximize your rate of damage by focusing purely on those abilities. However, focusing on a single talent will lessen your overall impact on the battle. The strength your support skills gain from an ongoing Waaagh! is significant. Using your offensive magic to contribute directly to the fight will increase the power of your support magic, allowing you to better help your group.
It will depend on the player. Obviously sometimes it will be better to just heal, but most likely you will be most affective doing both.

http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=890&limitstart=94&limit=1&limitstart=95
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=893&limitstart=97&limit=1&limitstart=98
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=902&limitstart=106&limit=1&limitstart=105
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=902&limitstart=106&limit=1&limitstart=107
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=910&limitstart=114&limit=1&limitstart=115
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=911&limitstart=115&limit=1&limitstart=116
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&catid=17&id=923&limitstart=127&limit=1&limitstart=128

[Japan_is_superior]

I guess that in groups/guilds will always have a healer in a PvP "team". Probably not a pure healer, since no class in WAR can just heal (for example, the Shaman has to build WAAGH before.), but there will surely be players that their main objective would be to keep the others alive.
In the other side, people that are not in an organised group (like casuals, lonewolves, or just bored people) will probably use their shaman exactly like WoW players use their Priest. They will just run arround damaging people, and only use their WAAGH to heal themselves.

[Nemes1s]

I guess that in groups/guilds will always have a healer in a PvP "team". Probably not a pure healer, since no class in WAR can just heal (for example, the Shaman has to build WAAGH before.), but there will surely be players that their main objective would be to keep the others alive.
In the other side, people that are not in an organised group (like casuals, lonewolves, or just bored people) will probably use their shaman exactly like WoW players use their Priest. They will just run arround damaging people, and only use their WAAGH to heal themselves.

They don't have to build waaagh to heal. They heal BETTER when they do, but they do not require it to heal. Just look at the info I posted directly above yours.

[Wizzit]

yeah but think of it this way, when you got ur WAAGGH up that when itll be "Shaman go stand over by that tree and make sure the Blorc doesn't get killed"


I hope people will realize that the green skin way should be more "go and stand over by that tree and make things go boom!"

but hopefully they have a bit of both :) I mean lets face it its ALWAYS nice to be duking it out and have a party member heal you just before you get pasted! I trust the designers have struck up a nice balance

[Chouchou]

From what I see in class description, I plan on playing a shaman since the game play suit me well (but still undicided until I saw all classes). In WoW, I used to play my priest as both a holy nuker and a healer and i liked it.
Since the shaman is exactly based on both offensive casting abilities and healing, I guess it's actually the class wich suit the most and I intend to play it this way.

I'm still a little bit worried about player focus since gobelins can only play Squig herder and shaman. I hope that defensive group habilities will be enough to protect the healer (unlike in WoW)

[checkthis5000]

I'm almost betting that some people that are new to the game will pick up a Shaman and stand back and heal at first and their group mates will start yelling "What the Hell are you doing Shammy? Get in there and start ATTACKING. It's the only way your heals will be more effective."

[Daris]

but end of the day we gotta face up to the fact that people are lazy. and they will use any excuse to say "I..I'll go stand on that rock and heal you" or 2I'm gunna go hit in that tree and nuke them with my spells..you guys are doing a great job though, keep it up!"

[Accipiter]

As Jangar said, you need to be in the fight to get your WAAGH and WAAGH attacks seems to require quite alot of WAAGH, so this makes the shaman more of a meele fighter then a medic. As Paul said, there will be NO ONLY healing classes, because its BORING, and damn thats true. There's basicilly four types of classes so far;

:arrow: Tank
:arrow: DPS
:arrow: Support
:arrow: Range

Time will tell, there will be changes... (gosh, that should be signature...)

I agree that the shaman will be more than a medic. The designers seem to be making it a priority that healing classes get in on the fun. Also they know that they have to make it a part of the design mechanic of the class. Otherwise players will demand that we do nothing but heal.

As for the quote above, I'm hoping that the shaman will be more of a nuker/healer than a melee/healer type. We don't know much about his skills but he seems to have a few nuke-type abilities. Also, he's wearing cloth, so unless he has some sort of magical defensive abilities, he's not going to last long.

It's hard to tell what his play style is until we get our hands on the game, but I'm hoping (selfishly) that one of the support classes will be a pure caster, as that is what I enjoy playing. :)

[Arathan]

unless he has some sort of magical defensive abilities, he's not going to last long.

Well, at least he has this ^^
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&id=926&catid=17&limitstart=130

[Accipiter]

Well, at least he has this ^^
http://www.war-rvr.net/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&Itemid=29&page=inline&id=926&catid=17&limitstart=130

Looks good. But it looks more like a pve skill. Unless "hate" has a pvp component.

[tribecalledquest]

Looks good. But it looks more like a pve skill. Unless "hate" has a pvp component.

Even if hate doestn have a pvp component; i say 50% less damage is pretty damn good

[Arathan]

Exactly, same thing as taunts working in both PvE and RvR. Detaunts work the same way. :>

[Accipiter]

I still hope that shaman offensive abilities have more to do with calling down the power of Gork and Mork than they do swinging a stick.

[Smachaz]

hahah, Not in the Face..Greenskins= Pure Unadulterated Awesome

But Shamans will probably wind up being the Medic class, since any Shaman that will prefer to do damage instead of healing will be called a ''Newb''. Hopefully they won't have to, for their sake, or at least that healers won't be a ''must'', just an advantage.

[Accipiter]

hahah, Not in the Face..Greenskins= Pure Unadulterated Awesome

But Shamans will probably wind up being the Medic class, since any Shaman that will prefer to do damage instead of healing will be called a ''Newb''. Hopefully they won't have to, for their sake, or at least that healers won't be a ''must'', just an advantage.

Not if the game mechanics call for a balance. If, as the shaman class description on the web site says, shamans heal better if they also do damage, only newbs will be calling shamans who do damage "newb".

If the mechanic works the way it's been described, the only shaman newbs will be those who only do damage or only heal. Players that know what they are doing will balance both.

[Node]

Not if the game mechanics call for a balance. If, as the shaman class description on the web site says, shamans heal better if they also do damage, only newbs will be calling shamans who do damage "newb".

If the mechanic works the way it's been described, the only shaman newbs will be those who only do damage or only heal. Players that know what they are doing will balance both.

I agree, to a degree. I hope the mechanic works out well. However, right off the info page for the shaman:
You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively. You can maximize your rate of damage by focusing purely on those abilities. However, focusing on a single talent will lessen your overall impact on the battle.

So, it is still certainly possible to at least spec to be a healbot, and doing so will result in bigger heal output. It'll be at the cost of lower damage output, sure, and in their eyes, a smaller impact on the battle. But the potential for the most healing seems to be at the cost of damage, not because of it.

[Jerrus]

In the latest Gamespy article (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/warhammer-online/759615p4.html) he describes his Shaman PvP experience as one where he lurks about the Orcs doing damage to build up Waaaagh to heal.

[Accipiter]

In the latest Gamespy article (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/warhammer-online/759615p4.html) he describes his Shaman PvP experience as one where he lurks about the Orcs doing damage to build up Waaaagh to heal.

Here is a quote from your link:

As a shaman, my main function was to heal -- but I couldn't do that without a steady supply of "waaaagh!" (the magical field greenskins generate in combat). That led to an experience quite unlike previous healing characters I'd played in the past. I planted myself right behind a group of orcs and scrambled around, trying to keep out of the way of the dwarves while doing incidental damage to keep my waaaagh! up. As I got better, I realized that I could use the terrain to hide and take potshots at players busy with front-line orcs. There were also spells that could only be used when certain things happened (such as a knockdown) or in conjunction with other players' abilities. It was a tough system to learn but once I started to get the hang of it, it was enormously satisfying.[/I]

He describes it as "unlike previous healing characters" he has played. I assume that means he's having to build mana (waaagh) rather than just conserve it. And the way he builds it is by doing damage. All in all, it sounds like fun, but I hope there are some more powerful nukes in the shaman's arsenal and it's not all "incidental damage". Otherwise he really is just a medic who has to procure his healing power by doing a token bit of offense.

(As a side note, it did not sound like he was doing any melee.)

[Garthilk]

Yeah,

You are going to be seeing a lot of healing done through damage. Damage to your enemies that is returned to you a health, returned to your allies as health, that is returned over time as health. Abilities that will require you a cast X and Y before casting the heal H. The best healers will be the ones doing the right kind of offence in the right sequence in order to bring about the best heals.

[zenpotato]

Sounds like a combination of WoW Shamans and Warlocks. Good times.

I think the comment on speccing to be the best healer possible should be understood to mean that they deal less damage, no that they aren't dealing any. The playstyle of offense/healer remains the same, but you can choose to augment a particular part of that.

[QtipGreenSnot]

I hate classes that can heal being forced to do nothing but heal.It seems very short sighted to me and a complete waste of a character class.

I played a cleric in EQ from about 2000-2002 and it was soul destroying, I needed an army of alts just to maintain interest as a result, I enjoyed a smite heavy spec cleric in early DAOC far more as it was a challenge and involved me using abilities instead of just spamming certain heals every x seconds until my brain melted.

I'm hoping the Shaman is a real class and not a crappy traditional MMORPG 'healer' which barely constitutes a half class when compared to other classes.
Indirect healing I think will be key to this, having your heals require Waaagh is simply not enough, heals need to be part of offensive/defensive abilities or we will again be reduced to standing at the back mashing the direct healing goodness button until we become bored and roll an alt.

A few direct, pure heal skills is alright as long as they are not the best heals, our Waaagh is something which will require time(being around combat) and action(offensive abilities) to build up, spending it all on a direct heal seems a complete waste when we could spend it on lets say a debuff that lowers our enemies strength while providing a small HoT to our allies, it would achieve the same as a direct heal but in a way that actually feels involving and NOT BORING.

We know we are healers, but it is up to the devs to disguise this basic but important role and package it in a fun way.
Give us a class that can flick two fingers up at people who tell us to stay back and heal them, make it involving and enjoyable and on the verge of an RSI but not quite :)

[Boulvae]

Are you forgeting that the waaagh bar seems to be a % to how effective the spells are?

The healing and a majority of those other abilities i've looked at are more or less "morale", and some toehr type of mana pool for your spells. Wich means your nuke can devestate at max waaagh or your healing will make your team mates stop whining.

[Antipwn]

I'm almost betting that some people that are new to the game will pick up a Shaman and stand back and heal at first and their group mates will start yelling "What the Hell are you doing Shammy? Get in there and start ATTACKING. It's the only way your heals will be more effective."

I highly doubt that.

I plan on playing a shaman purely as a support class for my group; ie buffs/heals/interupts.

Vehemoth made the best point in the entire thread. Your role will be entirely situational, depending on the needs of the players in your group.

[Barbari]

I have several things in my mind but here comes two of those.

First, if you wanna do dmg select something else class like Magus or Squig Herder (i think that is in this thread already). I'm rolling for shaman just because i like to help and save my friends from death. I don't know anything cooler than that when you see your friends HP is going 10%... 5%... 2%... Boom you have gathered enough waagh and there comes some instant moral taking heal with some nice buff, and your friend kills the target. And then my whisper chat is full of "really nice healing there" "Amazing!" and so on... That is what i want from shaman!

Second I have some issue with tank healing. Okey, lets think there are 6 vs 6 battle going on. You are the tank healer. That huge Black Orc is tanking 3 men. So, you need to be aware all the time and regenerate WAAAGH stedily. But how you can generate WAAGH stedily, i think you can't do that with some direct spells which do damage. Some DoTs? Debuffs? And if there are those, it will be freaking awsome! What could be nicer than that you have to keep DoTs and Debuffs on your enemy for GOOD tank/group healing (so you don't have to do direct damage). If this is in the game and most like is, this will rank good healers from bad healers. And that's not just "and I heal and I heal" that needs skill, not 30k mana pool.

This is every thing i have this time. ;)

[zenpotato]

Are you forgeting that the waaagh bar seems to be a % to how effective the spells are?

The healing and a majority of those other abilities i've looked at are more or less "morale", and some toehr type of mana pool for your spells. Wich means your nuke can devestate at max waaagh or your healing will make your team mates stop whining.

From the tooltips for skills so far, it looks like Waagh! only gives bonuses to healing spells. This means it won't be spent with direct damage spells, only gained. When you have been doing damage, however, you gain Waaagh! which will be spent on your next heal.

[Node]

From the tooltips for skills so far, it looks like Waagh! only gives bonuses to healing spells. This means it won't be spent with direct damage spells, only gained. When you have been doing damage, however, you gain Waaagh! which will be spent on your next heal.

It does have non-healing, but party-buffing uses, too (e.g., spending Waaagh! to increase the length of time you've increased your party's runspeed for).

[Dante]

This video (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=16667&type=mov) is a great preview of the Shaman's playing style.

P.S The Shaman isn't and won't become a Medic. The Shaman will be something like the Chaos Zealot.

[Daris]

hmm you say that but lets look at a case of a non primary healer that became a medic...the WoW druid. people said it would be a combat or casting unit but now hes a petty medic

[Dante]

I'm guessing the Shaman will have a little more damagin spells then healing. Judging by the videos I've seen the Shaman could take care of himself very well, and dropped a heal once in a while. To reach full potential a Shaman has to do a little damage. Like they say:"No pain, no gain" but in this case the Shaman is the one who inflicts the pain to gain some WAAAGH! magic :p.

[Daris]

yeah especially when he summons Gorks hand

[Nethunz]

da system of WAAGH! Energy iz gonna be very interezting to see in action. You'ze are gonna having to heal and hurt dem stuntiez to make surez dat. But wot I want to see is how da WAAGH! is gonna effectg everyfing and how much betterz you'ze will be in a group as opposed to being solo.

Now hiring a Gobbo Sham to be my travelling compadre. I promise a life of smashing, WAAGH! , and stuntie destruction. What I am looking for is a loud and talkative gobbo, with a deep and uncanning resilience for dishing out damage and the occasion heal.

[mad_caddie]

i think people are focusing too much on the roles in a group as opposed to playing as a fighter on a battlefield - something people like barnett seems to keep warning us from doing.

each and every character should be dealing damage in a fight, 'beating the living snot out of each other', and on top of that each career has a different skill to contribute to the success of your party doing this. some of them happen to be able to 'tank', some are better at dealing damage faster at the expense of being less armoured, and some just so happen to be able to heal. it seems people are focusing too much on how each player will contribute to their group, and not the WAR mentality that you get in there, beat the out of the enemy, and do a little something else on the side like healing for example. we need to see other players in our groups simply as someone else trying to 'beat up' the enemy, not as a tank/dps/healer/caster whatever, and see these roles more as a nice little bonus that those people happen to carry - not as the sole purpose that person is there for.

but yeah, players who can heal will be told by noobs to stand at the back and be healbots. it will be interesting to see how these people deal with the fact that you can't be an effective healer unless you get in there and beat up some stunties, thus build up WAAAAGH!! for healing.

[Daris]

yeah the Noob vs Class role arguement is as old as the genre so I mean on that end we'll have to see how it fares but I can see as a result non clanned players will suffer from a lack of knowledgable groups

[Kargul 'Eadbasha]

Hopefully players will just take a look at the website before buying the game, and see that the healers aren't for healing.

[Joona]

Hopefully players will just take a look at the website before buying the game, and see that the healers aren't for healing.

Could you little bit clarify what you mean with that? Why would anyone expect to have a class in a RvR game that is purely a healer?

Classes in WAR will not be just a one role classes but still I don't get the point of your post, ofc classes that are able to heal are for healing too? If the class is not purely and only made for healing does that mean that " healer is not for healing " ? I think not.

Also, I recommend for you to read the website: www.warhammeronline.com and read the shaman's description especially this part You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively.

So.. shaman is able to heal and deal damage / buff / debuff. Since he's able to do more than only heal, shaman is not for healing?

Other " healing classes " will also be able to more than just heal but that does not mean that they wouldn't still be " healers " they'll be " healers " as long as they are able to heal and they are also for healing as long as they are able to do so, maybe not purely for healing but being able to do more than just heal isn't quite something anyone should complain / get disappointed in my opinion at least ... also remember that if decide to play example shaman you'll still be able to chose your own playstyle and focus much as you want for healing.

I'm pretty sure that if someone who can't be bothered to look how the classes work in WAR buy the game and decides to play a " healer " he/she will be positively surprised.

[Daris]

Joona he means hopefully people will look at the site an realise that the healers arn't medics, they are combat classes with healing potential

[Joona]

Joona he means hopefully people will look at the site an realise that the healers arn't medics, they are combat classes with healing potential
Okay, well that makes a lot more sense :)

[Treatz]

All poll choices, besides "no", are opinionated. There are not medic anythings, in WAR so no, they can't and won't be.

EDIT: Oi! Sorry Darus!

[Daris]

yet I see you don't undedrstand the question. this is an opinion poll

[zenpotato]

You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively.

This is being taken out of context. This statement was made about spending skills, not about the actual playstyle. You achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on healing skills. That's a no brainer. However, in combat, in order to achieve the greatest rate of healing you need to be putting out damage to be building up Waaagh.

[DeathByStereo]

Hello i hope the Shamans dont wasted like world of warcraft...it's sad to see a powerfull class to be a medic class i hope in warhammer online (since ppl say u must play pvp) to find a way to kill and maybe do some soft medic! But for the ppl who want Shamans to heal maybe some guys (like a irl mate) loves to heal (no he is NOT dork :P) so some Shamans will be medicbots!

[GrandOne]

If I remember correctly, it's been said that the more you do dmg, the better you can heal
So you need to find a balance between the two

But seriously, I hope people won't force a playstyle on others

[Rahl]

This is being taken out of context. This statement was made about spending skills, not about the actual playstyle. You achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on healing skills. That's a no brainer. However, in combat, in order to achieve the greatest rate of healing you need to be putting out damage to be building up Waaagh.

zenpotato i agree with you. Shaman has to do damage, then he can heal. As i have understand that correctly it doesn't matter how much damage he causes, he will build up waaagh, then he can heal with his full potential.

You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively.

if you have skilled healing, then you will make critheals. Shaman in WAR will be something like shamans in daoc. No one wants you without buffs. Your jobs was to buff, to heal a bit and interrupt. I think in WAR it will be similar.

so long

Rahl

[Joona]

zenpotato i agree with you. Shaman has to do damage, then he can heal. As i have understand that correctly it doesn't matter how much damage he causes, he will build up waaagh, then he can heal with his full potential.

You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively.

if you have skilled healing, then you will make critheals. Shaman in WAR will be something like shamans in daoc. No one wants you without buffs. Your jobs was to buff, to heal a bit and interrupt. I think in WAR it will be similar.

so long

Rahl

Firstly, I recommend that you read my whole post, then hopefully you understand why did I quote only that part.

Well maybe I'm assuming too much here.. Why did I quote it only not the whole chapter. Which would be Playing as a Shaman
As a Shaman, you’ll have to walk a careful line in balancing your offensive and support abilities. You can achieve the greatest rate of healing by focusing on that skill exclusively. You can maximize your rate of damage by focusing purely on those abilities. However, focusing on a single talent will lessen your overall impact on the battle. The strength your support skills gain from an ongoing Waaagh! is significant. Using your offensive magic to contribute directly to the fight will increase the power of your support magic, allowing you to better help your group. is that my post was reply for the following post : Hopefully players will just take a look at the website before buying the game, and see that the healers aren't for healing. and as you can hopefully clearly see, that on the website it clearly says ( the obvious part on the fat letters on the first quote ) that shamans are for both, healing and damage dealing, and from the screenshots we've seen at war-rvr.net shamans also have debuffs and buffs. Only reason to quote that part was to make it clear that shamans are also for healing. Also if I remember right, I did say it on my former post that shamans are for other than healing too ;)

About Waaagh! It will boost your heals, yes. It is definitely a huge part of shamans playstyle, there are debuffs that increase it, direct damage spells that gives it but there are many heals that doesn't require Waaagh! energy but it will of course boost your heal. Example, there is resurrection spell that they are working on, it will resurrect (surprise, surprise?) but it will also heal if you have Waaagh! restored ;)

Oh and zenpotato, read the headline of the " context " your talking about, I'll quote it for you. Playing as a Shaman. For me playing as a Shaman equals to shamans playstyle but its nice that you know better.. I'm from Finland and as you may understand my English isn't on the level of those who speak it as their native.

I think thats all for now, also remember that Daris explained what Kargul 'Eadbasha meant with his post... so my reply got the answer already.

[zenpotato]

It is a pretty subtle language move they make there. When they say "focusing on that skill exclusively", they aren't referring to the skills you use in battle, but the skills you organize that boost your various abilties. The words skill and ability, while synonyms in many contexts, are technical terms here that are not the same.

[Nemes1s]

It is a pretty subtle language move they make there. When they say "focusing on that skill exclusively", they aren't referring to the skills you use in battle, but the skills you organize that boost your various abilties. The words skill and ability, while synonyms in many contexts, are technical terms here that are not the same.
No... if they were talking only about speccing heals they would have said "tactics" not skills.

[Garthilk]

No... if they were talking only about speccing heals they would have said "tactics" not skills.Not necessarily, tactics and skills are seperate and you can put points into either.

[Gazlowe]

I've got confidence in Mythic's design theory for the shaman. I'll be playing it for the 'support' class aspect, and don't having any plans to spec into a pure-healer. Being a combination of a Buffer/secondary damage dealer/spot healer is a very enjoyable role. As long as you aren't forced to just one aspect of the class, and are able to play all of them in battle, I'll be playing Shaman.

If not, then... da Choppa!

[Nethunz]

I have no doubt that shamans will be an essential class to have with any pure Greenskin group not due to their heals but rather because of their damage and buffs.

[Gemini]

I can't wait to see what buffs and debuffs Mythic has in store for the gobbo shamans. Sure, there will be damage, and needless to say, plenty of healing, but... I mean, there are only so many ways you can do a healing spell, but buffs and debuffs have nearly endless potential if you are creative enough.

As for the whole healbot thing, I truely doubt they will become healbots unless they really really want to be, and the group is okay with that. Obviously they'll still have to cast other spells, to get WAAAGH!, but they could pretty much be healers if they want to be. They just shouldn't do that if they want to be the most effectivive they can be. Or thats how I see it.

[Silenius]

Well playing a hybrid is always a challenge but it also gives you room to adapt, however as some others have stated if you want to ditch out heavy dmg this isnt the class for you.

[cwang733t]

As long as this doesnt turn into the FFXI debate of why play a warrior and subclass white mage. One pure attack and pure healer class. People said it was so "gimped" that there is a large community that would not ever group with you! To me this is stupid, if they allow a combination, there must be a reason for it. I could see a nice set of abilities in it, but since subclassing is optional, I dont understand why players dont accept someone who made this choice and throw invites out to him.

FYI there isnt a difference between any white mages or warriors, they have no skill points, pure cookie cutters.

[daggers]

it's likely that shamans will also be able to gear themselves into more of a damage dealer role than a healer role.

gear, skill, tactics - all ways to customize your shaman into the role you forsee?

[Whillow]

shaman players need to play healing- and damage-dealing options to really be effective on battlefield. they first have to get waaagh to cast any spell! so, they also depend on dealing damage before they get the role of a medic. noobs, who're too lazy and too recreant to really take part in battle and just heal, will be killed very easily, 'cause their healing power and their effect on the battle will only increase, when they decide to deal damage as well. and that's the main point, that makes the shaman to a multifunctional character and not only to a medic.

[Aes]

If you look in terms off group play, you have to do X amount of healing to keep everyone alive, whilst you do Y amount of damage and buffing with leftover resource. Depending on the group, if there aren't any other healers and it's a large group, you might be hard pressed to keep everyone alive so you won't do any damage and just spam heal. Now, if you aren't hard pressed to keep everyone's health up, then you can start buffing and doing damage, by doing damage and buffing you are shortening the fight, thus requiring less overall healing, which means you can spend even less of your resource on healing and mre on damage. This is why the Shaman will be able to do both rather than be forced into a healbot role.

Another thing to take into account is that because you are playing the support role, you'll have the tank classes protecting you and you get to stand back from the front line. This means you get to see the bigger picture, and you're going to see if a particular enemy is charging up a nuke spell or such, and make that vital interruption that can account for more than any heal, or finish off that pesky ranged damage dealer who's still nuking with just his last bit of health left, meaning you can make your incidental damage count.

This is basically how I see the shaman playing out from what I've seen and read.

[Waywardecho]

I like the amount of optimism in this thread as far as the flexibility and options of the classes that can heal, and I think Mythic will try their best to make that the case. From what I hear about their ideas to make tanks viable in PvP (via their innovative taunt mechanics and such) I can hope that they will try to bring similar innovation to the role of healers. But I have to play devil's advocate here, because there are some real issues that will not simply be taken care of by making shamans have to fight in order to heal.

Most of us have extensive experience playing MMOs. From that experience we can easily break down the classes of each side. From all indications there will be three healers on each side, one for each race. Each of these healers takes the form of a hybrid more than a traditional healer in past games. So 3 healers to pick from for your groups, each with the ability (and probably the desire) to do some damage, which is a change, to whatever degree, from the norm, where if you're one of only a couple healers you're often not expecting (or even allowed) to do damage.

It is unlikely that the amount of healing needed to sustain a group will be changed drastically from our past experiences. Even if it is significantly less, the only way a healing class will be able to avoid significant healing responsibilities is if a group can get through a fight without everyone who is taking damage needing a heal. If three out of 6 group spots are taking damage, they would normally all need to be healed, which is going to take dedicated healing.

I like that it seems (and that is all we know right now--that it seems) that shamans and other healing classes will effectively "generate" healing through their combat techniques, but, simply put, if you're able to heal, and you're the only one of your 6 man able to do it, then you will be doing it, at the expense of doing damage.

One might say, "well just make sure that there are two healer hybrids in your group," to which I would like to point out that if healer hybrids only make up 25% of the classes, they should not make up 33% of the necessary classes for a group. But that is a niggling point, nothing more.

So in the end, it is simply naive to think that healer classes will be able to fully avoid getting relegated to group healer. HOWEVER, I believe there are several ideas on the table that will help mitigate the issue somewhat:

- self heals for non-healer classes via morale or other means
- forcing the healer classes to fight in order to "generate" better healing (with all appropriate game balancing for this novel approach)
- variety of healing spells: heals over time, insta-cast heals, group heals, the activation of rune priest healing runes, healing chants/shouts/bursts from warrior priests, vampiric healing buffs and debuffs -- basically anything that keeps a healer from sitting in place for 1.5 - 3 seconds per healing shot to a single group mate.
- an RvR game emphasis. For all those WoW players out there: ever notice the dearth of healing out there? At least in Warsong Gulch you can expect people to take care of the flag carrier, but in general people want kills and glory, and the game is balanced so that it is in your best interest just to add to the dps to try to take down the other team first rather than keep yours up. There are always exceptions, but that is what they are -- exceptions. I believe a large problem is that healing is designed for PvE in WoW, rather than PvP. Hopefully WAR's RvR design emphasis will simply make healing easier to accomplish as part of the natural flow of combat, rather than something that slows you down and cuts your dps contribution. An RvR emphasis will hopefully attempt to innovate a variety of healing techniques, reinforcing the previous points.

Right. So. Shamans will of course be relegated to medics, to the whatever extent, based on 3 factors.
1) How their abilities compare to the other healer hybrid options of the zealot and the dark elf healer option.
2) Depending on the number of healers in the group.
3) Depending on the self sustaining abilities of the dps and tank classes.

However, the healer hybrids of WAR have a better chance to avoid such rigid assignments than such a class would in any other game to date, at least as far as we can speculate right now.

-echo

[Gemini]

Also, what do we know about death and revival? Obviously death for your team is never a good thing(unless that player is really annoying or pulling 10,000 mobs onto you). However, If death and revival are not a big deal, like, for instance, GW, keeping 100% on top of healing might not be the only important thing, espically since the healers are hybrids. Maybe it would be smarter to blast a weakened oppenent into dust and risk the posibilty of your ally dying. Obviously, both would be the best option, but honestly, sometimes keeping a team member alive is not the most important thing to do, assuming death does not also bring along severe penalties. So, with the above assumption, I think there is a much greater chance of shamans not becoming medics.

Also as waywardecho said, self heals(or self purges) will greatly take the weight off a healer hyrbrid being solely a healbot. I have no problem being a medic on the font lines as long as I can be a medic that carries an assault rifle next to his case of gauze and bandages.

[Whillow]

of course self-healing is a duty for shamans to keep alive. they don't have strong armor to reli on! so, they have to balance the disadvantage with healing themselves to survive in battle! but i personally don't think that they really get the role of a medic for a whole group! indeed it depends on the situation. if all healer-classes are eliminated, the shaman will be supposed to keep his team-mates alive. but he should never forget to fight on his own!

[Talsigore]

Well as a shaman, I plan to stick with my group, dish out damage to build up Waaargh and use that Waaargh to put out a bug heal thats nearly as effective as if I had of just spammed heals on the person in the first place.

Thats what the shaman seems to be to me, a class that deal damage so that they can make their heals better.

They are a healer but they are a WAR healer, not a WoW, EQ or other MMO healer. They take the healing playstyle and make it more offensive and more fun.

[Gemini]

Let me clarify, I meant self-heals for classes other than the healer hybrids. I liked that in GW, all classes had some way to heal themselves. Obviously none were as good as the ones that came from a monk(the healer class), but... they were useful, and allieviated the load put on the monk's shoulders. IMO, that would work even better in WAR so it will be easier for the support class for a given race to avoid being a healbot.

[zenpotato]

This should put some of the healer whining to rest. Straight from the horses mouth, taken from a Gamespot interview with the Senior Designer.

All of our healer careers work this way. We don't just want to avoid the creation of pure support classes; we want to make it positively counterproductive to play any career that way. This is Warhammer Online. Everybody fights. Nobody hangs back. There's no crying in Warhammer.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/warhammeronline/news.html?sid=6167469&tag=topslot;title;2&om_act=convert&om_clk=topslot

[Malkior]

I like that it seems (and that is all we know right now--that it seems) that shamans and other healing classes will effectively "generate" healing through their combat techniques, but, simply put, if you're able to heal, and you're the only one of your 6 man able to do it, then you will be doing it, at the expense of doing damage.


QFT
I was going to post a long response to some of these posts until I saw yours.

Regardless of all the other abilities you get, you WILL be healing in groups a lot of the time. That doesn't mean you have to just stand there and only heal; but if someone dies because you'd rather nuke another person or nuke the mob, then you're wrong. You'll get called a newb and will deserve it, imo.

[Gasher]

i think yes, but not all shamans are going to want to heal other people! there will always be people that choose a healer class, then only heal themselves... if the shaman is played by a person who basically knows what he is doing will both heal and deal the damage! but there will always be people who just dont choose the right class for themselves.

[Sekt]

Most of the shaman's early abilities are listed in hammerwiki.... go take a look. They are an offensive support class.... just like a warrior priest, rune priest , or zealot. <-simple answer.... no.

[stoz]

I hope that the shaman class doesn't go the route of the healbot, mainly due to my feeling that most people think solely healing is boring.

Most people don't play with my friends, though...

Anyways, regardless of whether or not shamans will be pigeonholed into healbotting, I'll probably go that route myself, provided it's the most efficient way of doing things. I was a 61 resto orc shaman in WoW, and I never had so much fun.

[Duppre]

All races are made so they can stand up for themselfs.
I hope that players who choose to play a Shaman (as myself) wont be made by other players to only heal.
if you want to do damage, do damage, if you want to heal, Heal!
I want to make damage with my shaman, but ofcourse will I heal when it's necesary.
As in WoW for example ( I know you dont like when ppl talks about WoW)
If you take a Druid, they can be Dps and they can heal.. BUT!! ppl don't like you when you go for dps as a druid.
So you are forced to heal if you want to get somewere as a Druid in that game..
And i just think it's sad!
So please, don't make this game another WoW:D... Let players play as they liker.. And don't tell them how to play thier own classes :wink:
Thats all from me..

[Whillow]

All races are made so they can stand up for themselfs.
I hope that players who choose to play a Shaman (as myself) wont be made by other players to only heal.
if you want to do damage, do damage, if you want to heal, Heal!
I want to make damage with my shaman, but ofcourse will I heal when it's necesary.
As in WoW for example ( I know you dont like when ppl talks about WoW)
If you take a Druid, they can be Dps and they can heal.. BUT!! ppl don't like you when you go for dps as a druid.
So you are forced to heal if you want to get somewere as a Druid in that game..
And i just think it's sad!
So please, don't make this game another WoW:D... Let players play as they liker.. And don't tell them how to play thier own classes :wink:
Thats all from me..

yeah! LIBERATION FOR THE DRUIDS!

no, just jokin'. in WAR, you have to play as a team to be effective on battlefield. victory doesn't only depend on the skill of each player, but on the fact, that we all play TOGETHER and really act like a huge gathered ARMY of players. so, in a group, there can't everybody play like he likes to. a team needs to compromise to not cause a tumultious chaos.

[Gemini]

I do think shamans(and other support classes) will be expected to heal/support/whatever, but I don't think most will be expected to only heal. Like, the shamans, they HAVE to do damage to heal well. So even if you just want to heal, if you want to do it well, you gotta throw in some other stuff to get your heals to full power. But they won't be as effective as the real dps classes, so I don't expect to see many damage-only shamans either.

[Aysop]

i think ppl are looking at the shaman class in the wrong way. the shamans of WAR won't be like the shamans of other mmo's; there will actually be synergy between dpsing and healing. healbotting will not be a very effective strategy at all. i'm personally counting on them making heals very expensive(in terms of waagh and action points) so that they can't be used so often.

[Whillow]

I do think shamans(and other support classes) will be expected to heal/support/whatever, but I don't think most will be expected to only heal. Like, the shamans, they HAVE to do damage to heal well. So even if you just want to heal, if you want to do it well, you gotta throw in some other stuff to get your heals to full power. But they won't be as effective as the real dps classes, so I don't expect to see many damage-only shamans either.

yeah, that's right. shamans first have to build up some waaagh by dealing damage to be effective in their own role. but what i've meant is, that not every player'll be able to play like he wants to. of course he will, but he won't be very supporting for the whole group then!

and the argument, that the shaman won't really be able to be only damage-dealer class, is true. i don't expect to see many damage-only shamans as well.

[QtipGreenSnot]

Shaman will do damage though, no point giving them damage dealing abilities if they are weak.
I can only speculate, but I'd imagine that a shaman's damage dealing skills are damage dealing first and waaagh increasing second, Shaman will almost certainly be the lowest direct damage dealers but I'm guessing that the damage will not be insignificant.

A gobshite shaman should be a prickly little git, yes he heals a bit, craps out a nice aura for his groupmates to feed off, but at his heart he should be a mean little mofo that causes as much pain as he can to stumpie wee dwarves.

He needs the offensive capabilities to take down other players, but striking a balance between offensive and defensive should always provide best results in large scale PvP.

If you strip the healing/support classes of offensive capabilities in a predominately PvP game you are onto a loser.

[Dr. Waaaghenstein]

Either way, shamans are definitely going to be in demand from the sound of it. The Order Armies don't realize the immensity of Waaagh's power.

[Tpyo]

I will do what I see fit.

If everyone on my team is doing ok.

And theirs another character causing trouble I'll probably use some Waaagh generating abilities and dps him as I see it necessary.

[crispy]

They shouldn't be, but noobs will make them.

They should be, but noobs will try not to make them

[Oasis]

hey what i want to know is if say a shaman heals the whole time in a bg, will they gain the same amount of exp every time a dwarf or something dies?

[someguysteve]

The whole idea is that everbody fights, so Im guessing they won't hold your hand and give you free exp.

[Gaazruk]

If you group with a Shaman and say ''hey you can sit back and heal me while I bash threw these guys ok?'' would be a WASTE. The Shaman can deal a large amount of damage on his own and forcing him to only heal would stop him from reaching his full potential. That would be like taking a choppa and saying ok go ahead and attack but then stop before you reach full bezerk mode, ITS JUST NOT RIGHT! Shamans are a SUPPORT/RANGED class they are NOT first and foremost a healer. Sure if your grouping with a shaman have him toss you a heal when you need it, but telling him to sit there and heal you while you go have fun bashing a stuntie head in is just wrong. Thats Preventing another player who pays the same amount every month as you from expirenceing the full potential of thier character. So the simple solution to some people would be ''Well if you dont want to heal us then dont be that character'' and that works for some people dont get me wrong. But ALOT of people want to be goblin shamans because of the hybrid mixture. Because its new, because its a challenge and denying them the right to explore their character to its utmost ability isnt okay by saying Hey stop dpsing and we need you to focus only on healing us. That just ruins the game for the people who want to be Hybrids and enjoy 2 sides of play, The Healer and the DPSer. So Basiclly to sum up this post which is alot of sentences all saying the same thing. ''Let The Shamans do what they want to do!"

[Gemini]

They should be, but noobs will try not to make them

Uhh... actually, Mythic is doing their best to make them not medics, so unless all the game devs are noobs, than no :P.

[PurpleAvenger]

Seeing as how Shamans will have to attack to build WAAAGH! in order to heal. I assume that they will have to do a mix of both in order to be effective.

Agreed, seems to me Mythic is much more intelligent then Blizzard, and as such should be able to pull this off with little to no trouble. I mean, its pretty obvious when you think about it.

[Oasis]

If you group with a Shaman and say ''hey you can sit back and heal me while I bash threw these guys ok?'' would be a WASTE. The Shaman can deal a large amount of damage on his own and forcing him to only heal would stop him from reaching his full potential. That would be like taking a choppa and saying ok go ahead and attack but then stop before you reach full bezerk mode, ITS JUST NOT RIGHT! Shamans are a SUPPORT/RANGED class they are NOT first and foremost a healer. Sure if your grouping with a shaman have him toss you a heal when you need it, but telling him to sit there and heal you while you go have fun bashing a stuntie head in is just wrong. Thats Preventing another player who pays the same amount every month as you from expirenceing the full potential of thier character. So the simple solution to some people would be ''Well if you dont want to heal us then dont be that character'' and that works for some people dont get me wrong. But ALOT of people want to be goblin shamans because of the hybrid mixture. Because its new, because its a challenge and denying them the right to explore their character to its utmost ability isnt okay by saying Hey stop dpsing and we need you to focus only on healing us. That just ruins the game for the people who want to be Hybrids and enjoy 2 sides of play, The Healer and the DPSer. So Basiclly to sum up this post which is alot of sentences all saying the same thing. ''Let The Shamans do what they want to do!"
umm..it was a hypothetical question, i know shamans are good for attacking too but in a lot of videos i see them healing more then attacking and i was thinking of playing one..and yea was just wondering if they could

also can you make it reader friendly and space them out? I couldnt finish it all

[QtipGreenSnot]

They should be, but noobs will try not to make them


Fishing, are we?

[StevenQ]

If shamans are going to become medics then I better role something else. There is nothing I hate worse than being forced to heal since I have healing abilities. I always like playing a class that can heal, but I hate being forced to heal because I can.

[Aes]

Well I don't think ot as being that simple. I do want to play a support class and I do wantto be able heal, the part where most mmo's go wrong with this is that often times it is best to use all of your mana for healing and none on offensive abilities. The reason this puts people off of healing classes is the fact that it grants no interaction with the enemy, you don't feel like you're competing just playing some silly flash animated game.

By requiring you to do damage to heal, that lack of interactivity will be bridged. Plus the use of multiple mana pools will make the job of healing more complex and less linear, meaning that good healng will probably amount to more than just healing at the right time and not overhealing. Whether the other classes will recognize this isn't likely but it'll be interesting for the shaman at least.

[Metamorph]

consider this, just as an example:

you have 2 spells to choose from that you can cast and each takes 3 seconds. The first spell does 10 damage and builds 10 Waaagh. The second spell heals 10 damage and an additional point of damage for each point of Waaaagh you have built up.

In 9 seconds you can cast 3 spells, the following combinations are available

3 damage spells = 30 damage (and 30 unspent waaagh)
3 heal spells = 30 healing
1 damage spell, 1 waaagh+10, and one baseline heal = 10 damage and 30 healing
2 damage spells, 1 waaaagh+20 heal = 20 damage and 30 healing

do you see what im getting at here?

you don't gain any benefit from just spamming heal. you get the same healing output but also get to do damage if you properly mix your spells and build up your Waaagh.

The numbers are picked are arbitrary, just to prove a point, but its a clear demonstration of the Waaagh mechanic makes it impossible to be an effective Shaman without casting both heals and damage spells.