Empire firearms?

[Immortalis]

I was wondering, what sort of pistols and rifles will the Empire have access to? If witch hunters could use stuff like perhaps just something like a chassepot rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassepot) I might reconsider my class choice. Guns>Magic.

If only Chaos had a class in plate armor that carried long range rifles that could one-shot noobs.

edit= I mean, at what level of firearm technological advancement will the Empire be at?

[Immortalis]

I was doing some research, and apparently the dwarfs will have wheellocks at the very least. Here are some links to dwarfs and their guns.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Dwarfs/Careers/images/dw_armor_engineer6.jpg

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Dwarfs/Careers/images/dw_armor_engineer7.jpg

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=280&c=4

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=610&c=4

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=326&c=4

For comparison, here's a picture of a real wheellock: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/Hb_42.50.8.jpg

Now here's the thing: all the witch hunter concept art I've seen shows them wielding flintlocks, which are more advanced than wheellocks. Aren't dwarves supposed to have the edge in gun technology?

Picture of a witch hunter (take note of the pistol mechanism): http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/conceptArt/full/12192006_20.jpg

And pictures of mechanisms on real flintlocks.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/Musee-historique-lausanne-img_0086.jpg/800px-Musee-historique-lausanne-img_0086.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Flintlock.jpg/800px-Flintlock.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/Flintlockstatic.gif

Finally, a real-life flintlock in action.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/FlintlockFiring.jpg/548px-FlintlockFiring.jpg

I hope to God witch hunters can use flintlock rifles and snipe people from afar. I'd definitely roll one then. I'd just make sure to hide the hat.

[Delirium_Trigger]

Dwarves are more advanced than humans as far as firearms go. They just don't trust them enough to really delve that deeply into development. I would, however, like to see the empire get their hands on repeater pistols. Don't expect hunters to be snipers....

[Immortalis]

Flintlocks were invented after wheellocks, and were a lot superior to them. Dwarves may have repeating wheellocks, but flintlocks stayed in use for about 200 years, longer than any other firearm. That's why I'm wondering why the hell do empire blokes have flintlocks whereas the dwarves have wheellocks?

[Arathan]

Actually, iirc, the empire's firearms technology is more advanced than the dwarfs'. Sure, the dwarfs' guns are more reliable/accurate etc because of better craftsmanship, but they're not much into innovation generally. Once something works, they don't really change it, they just refine it.

[Parker]

The Witch-hunter is the Melee DPS class for Empire, so while they may have pistols, don't expect them to be stellar marksmen. The Ranged DPS role is filled by the Bright Wizards, which really don't need gunpowder to blow things up. :)

I suppose that the Knights of the Blazing Sun might hang a rifle on their saddle, but I don't envision it as being an integral part of the class. Finally, the Warrior Priest sure isn't going to use them.

So, to answer the original question, the Empire might have long-barreled guns, but you're not going to be sniper.

[Seldaren]

Actually, iirc, the empire's firearms technology is more advanced than the dwarfs'. Sure, the dwarfs' guns are more reliable/accurate etc because of better craftsmanship, but they're not much into innovation generally. Once something works, they don't really change it, they just refine it.

That's pretty much correct.
The Empire's Engineers advance things without really considering safety. Hence, stuff has a tendency to blow up.

Also, much of the Steam Technology comes from Warhammer's version of Michaelangelo, who is from Tilea I believe. He invented the Steam Tank for instance.

So the Dwarfs' technology is more reliable and safe than the Empire's. The Empire's can be more destructive though, but to the operators too though :) .

Seldaren

[Vikingkingq]

That's pretty much correct.
The Empire's Engineers advance things without really considering safety. Hence, stuff has a tendency to blow up.

Also, much of the Steam Technology comes from Warhammer's version of Michaelangelo, who is from Tilea I believe. He invented the Steam Tank for instance.

So the Dwarfs' technology is more reliable and safe than the Empire's. The Empire's can be more destructive though, but to the operators too though :) .

Seldaren

I think you mean Leonardo da Vinci.

[Seldaren]

I think you mean Leonardo da Vinci.

Ahh... small brain fart there. I see how I got confused though.

From the Steam Tank description:

Steam Tank is the inspired design of the famed Leonardo of Miragliano.

My confuzeled brain was turning Miragliano into Michaelangelo :p .

Seldaren

[Stratigo]

actually dwarf steam tech is supior to empire steam tech. Empire has a few steam mills and around a dozen steam tanks. The dwarves have a navy of iron clads and a great amount of steam based flying machines.

[mad_caddie]

ones that blow holes in people.

[Dabigbom]

Imperial gunnery is far more advanced that dwarven gunnery, because the greatest place where the Empire does reasearch and development in gunnery (both firearms and heavy guns) is none other than the province of Nuln. That's why Nulners are famous for their Gunsmiths.

[Lucio]

Generally speaking, in Warhammer tabletop, the Dwarves are the one's known for their technological knowledge. After all they taught the Empire all they know about gunsmithing and steam technology.

[Vikingkingq]

Generally speaking, in Warhammer tabletop, the Dwarves are the one's known for their technological knowledge. After all they taught the Empire all they know about gunsmithing and steam technology.

I would say that Dwarves tend to have more advanced knowledge, but a declining rate of innovation, whereas humans have less knowledge, but are innovating much faster than the Dwarves.

[Cabamalan]

I would say that Dwarves tend to have more advanced knowledge, but a declining rate of innovation, whereas humans have less knowledge, but are innovating much faster than the Dwarves.


This is like the Dwarf Cannon and Empire Cannon in the actual tabletop game. The Dwarf Cannon is more ornate and what not but the Empire Cannon is stronger. This is simply due to the fact that Dwarves do not like change and are unlikely to change technologically.

[Instant_Karma]

Although I do not want Witchhunters to turn in Van Helsings, the idea of a crossbow is very tempting to me. Perhaps a Crossbow pistol? They are very real and I think would make an interesting to alternative to simply more and more ornate guns.

I agree with Vikingking about Dwarf vs. Empire firearms. If I understand it correctly, while the Empire Great Cannon is more powerful then the Dwarf Cannon, it is more prone to misfires while the Dwarf Cannon is, well, less lilkley (particularly if an Engineer is accompaning it)

[Memnos]

The Dwarves are certainly better at refining technology than the Empire - Hence their ability to make smaller and more reliable steam engines whereas the Empire can't even replace the Steam Tanks that they have built because good old Leonardo was so much better than anyone else - However, the Empire has the edge in technological development.

For proof of that, I would point out that the Empire has the worlds first artillery guns(A rare choice in tabletop) and the world's first Gatling Guns.

Oh, man. I'm waiting for the Empire to set up a Maginot line style defense against the hordes of Chaos.

[Kharyon]

I agree with you there Memnos

dwarves strive for refined quality and reliability whereas the empire is more inclined to innovation.

Lore-wise this is down to the fact that dwarves live many times longer natural lives then humans both making them have to use what they create for a longer stretch of time and giving them the time to take greater care in the creation.

[Heno]

All I know is that if a Hellcannon is on the battlefield you'll spot me as the person as far as way as possible whilst still being in the battle. Those things go up almost as much skaven warpcannons.

[Grimald]

Apparently you see Hellcannons straight away when you are a empire or chaos follower. I think you have to either guard them or take them out of commission.

[Bingo]

All of these guns are innacurate, be it wheellock or flintlock.

I look forward to the close-range pistolwhipping I will dish out while sprinkling some "holy oil" around, only to ignite it with a carefully placed medium-range shot.

I think if anything we will be a medium range opener, melee range primary, then melee or ranged finisher. All of this is speculation of course, but it is fun to dream :!:

[Vikingkingq]

All of these guns are innacurate, be it wheellock or flintlock.

I look forward to the close-range pistolwhipping I will dish out while sprinkling some "holy oil" around, only to ignite it with a carefully placed medium-range shot.

I think if anything we will be a medium range opener, melee range primary, then melee or ranged finisher. All of this is speculation of course, but it is fun to dream :!:

Well, the Hochland Long Rifle and the Dwarfish rifles are somewhat accurate.
Pistols obviously less so.

[gorgoth]

I doubt they're going to put that much depth into guns for the witch hunters. Maybe they might have different ammos such as one medium ranged one, (slower to reload harder to hit the target) one shorter range one, (faster to reload easier to hit) and like Bingo said maybe a finisher or combo that you can use during melee.

[Noyhtis]

For proof of that, I would point out that the Empire has the worlds first artillery guns(A rare choice in tabletop) and the world's first Gatling Guns.

Um gatling guns and Empire...
And i thoought Skaven were the first ones with the gatling gun, anyhow you are all forgetting the avesome fire arms of the skaven. They have one of the deadiest long range rifles in the table top, the jettzails.

And about empire having superior pistols compared to the dwarves I'd like to point out that Empire have their own unit of pistoliers, so I'd expect them to have the best guns available.

[Vegetta]

IN Warhammer TT etc

Handguns (basic rifle)
Pistols
Hochland long rifle (long range rifle - more accurate and does more damge)
Repeating rifles + Pistols (just nasty)
Blunderbuss (one shot cone shaped aoe damage)

I hope all of these make it in WAR

[Memnos]

Um gatling guns and Empire...
And i thoought Skaven were the first ones with the gatling gun, anyhow you are all forgetting the avesome fire arms of the skaven. They have one of the deadiest long range rifles in the table top, the jettzails.

And about empire having superior pistols compared to the dwarves I'd like to point out that Empire have their own unit of pistoliers, so I'd expect them to have the best guns available.

Nope. The Skaven are known for using warpstone in all their inventions. This makes their firearms dangerously unstable, poisonous and magical. Not quite technological, they're 'technology lite'. They look like technology, they smell like technology but they work based upon mystic principals.

However, now that we can pick out Skaven with heavy weapons, this edition has basically become the 'Kick the Skaven players in the junk' edition.

It's about time. :) I play Ogres and the glee I have in taking out Ratling guns before they can fire at all makes me laugh.

[Immortalis]

Ratling guns ftl. Period.

[Atavistic]

to quote a 40k ork term: skaven got lotsa Dakka!

[Heno]

Ratling guns ftl. Period.

Only if you're facing them, those things are remarkebly efficent and deadly for a skaven weapon....

[WarTrader]

Empire is flintlock or matchlock tech level (sounds like something from Age of Empires). Your not going to be picking up bullets, it will be lead shots.

[Vikingkingq]

Empire is flintlock or matchlock tech level (sounds like something from Age of Empires). Your not going to be picking up bullets, it will be lead shots.

They also have wheel-locks. But yes, it's ball and powder rather than cartridges.

[Valmir]

The way I think of it is that dwarfs say "oh I'll do it tomorrow." which in dwarf means five decades. While Empire are like build before I die checklist. For dwarfs have a thousand years too make a new gun therefore they delay themselves and take the time to make an uber one hit, one kill, no missing ability rifle or gun. While humans who usaully lived up to around 40 years in those ages will rush it making a pretty good gun but one that is very dangerous and could hurt or kill those around them. Dwarf's actually use bullets I believe and Empire use musket balls which would hurt a lot for its a tiny cannon ball.

[Immortalis]

Dwarfs use shot, too. There aren't any cartridges in the warhammer world, as far as I know.

[Hallborne]

It would be nice is there were some gun-related talents/skills for Witch Hunters, i'd love to walk around with a musket and 3 or 4 pistols.

[Memnos]

Dwarfs use shot, too. There aren't any cartridges in the warhammer world, as far as I know.

Too true. The Empire -does- have primitive 'repeater handguns' and 'repeater pistols'. utilize primitive bullets with a glue and a propellant already on the bullet. This is why you can fire a lot of bullets - They're basically six-shooters.

They also have Gatling Guns, which can get off up to 30 shots, thanks to a rotating barrel. Again, this would require bullets with the propellant already pre-attached. It would also require belted ammunition.

[Akulakhan]

I was wondering, what sort of pistols and rifles will the Empire have access to? If witch hunters could use stuff like perhaps just something like a chassepot rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassepot) I might reconsider my class choice. Guns>Magic.

If only Chaos had a class in plate armor that carried long range rifles that could one-shot noobs.

edit= I mean, at what level of firearm technological advancement will the Empire be at?
i Wouldnt Expect any Automatic weapons :p

[Vikingkingq]

Too true. The Empire -does- have primitive 'repeater handguns' and 'repeater pistols'. utilize primitive bullets with a glue and a propellant already on the bullet. This is why you can fire a lot of bullets - They're basically six-shooters.

They also have Gatling Guns, which can get off up to 30 shots, thanks to a rotating barrel. Again, this would require bullets with the propellant already pre-attached. It would also require belted ammunition.

Well, the Hellblaster isn't a belt-fed gun. It's essentially nine cannons strapped into a frame and fired in volleys of three with a combined trigger.

[Utruf]

Something is scratching me in the back of the head about Gatling Guns being belt fed, couldn't they just use some kind of channel on top and just pour the bullets in?(Early models)

Would probably get jammed allot tho.

Shells could be like cigarettes, with a lead bullet instead of a filter on the end. Think the first revolvers had something like paper shells before the metal ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure at all.

[Hallborne]

Early gatling guns weren't belt fed, here's a pretty detailed animated diagram of how they worked:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun2.htm

However i don't think there's anything like this in warhammer fantasy, they don't even use cartridges.

[Montbrun]

In the Toronto video, one of the dwarfs receives an "Imperial Issue Flintlock Pistol" as loot...

[Shacklock01]

As I understand, the Empire generaly uses braces of Wheellocks, wheras asthe Flintlock is much rarer and much more expensive, and new (ofc).

[Vikingkingq]

As I understand, the Empire generaly uses braces of Wheellocks, wheras asthe Flintlock is much rarer and much more expensive, and new (ofc).

While this is true, keep in mind we are playing elite units - Witch Hunters have access to top-of-the-line firearms because the Empire gives them a very very large budget for weapons; Knights of the Burning Sun, if they use ranged weapons at all, would also have access to expensive weapons, being knights, although Warrior Priests wouldn't bother with ranged weapons and Bright Wizards ARE ranged weapons. That's one of the reasons we're not playing Free Companies or Handgunners or Pistoleers, because those guys would get the less fancy stuff.

[Seademond]

Even though I'm a mage. I'm really hoping I'll be able to have a pistol. Not a rifle mind you. But a little something for if the winds of magic go dry. [OOM]

[Utruf]

Even though I'm a mage. I'm really hoping I'll be able to have a pistol. Not a rifle mind you. But a little something for if the winds of magic go dry. [OOM]

Having a gun attached anywhere to your body while using fire magic? Even a badly placed spark can set a flintlock off.

I wouldn't want one if I still wanted to keep my nether regions, or shot in the foot.

And besides, it would be boring if all classes can use all the others weapons, its like mages using 2 handed axes, it dosnt fit. And if mages would be able to use pistols, it would be crap or it would be rather overpowered, its like if Witch hunters all of a sudden were able to start throwing fireballs, just like any other mage.

[Ravana]

Here's what a blunderbuss really looks like. The flair of the barrel is exaggerated in alot of games , and probably will be in this one, but it keep in mind it is effectively a shotgun.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/English_flintlock_blunderbuss.jpeg

Looks damn powerful.


I assume that MOST types of characters will have access to ranged weapons, except for those who are exceedingly efficient on other areas and have no use for them at all. (Hammerers, Black Orcs, Dark Elve Witches)

[Kazek Ironfist]

If you are going by lore no. Chaos most definitely would not have any long range, they don't have any excluding the hell cannon on tabletop. Empire having mounted bowman would just be silly, because the Empire is based on Germany, not some Eastern country. Having mounted gunners is a unit in lore, but I highly doubt it because Knights are made for close combat, while the "pistoleers" they are called are more scouts and are used to harass. They are most likely limiting long range attacks to those that have long range weapons, engineers, witchhunter, squid herder, excluding sorcerers, of which Chaos seems to have 2 pretty much, to compensate for this lack of long range.