Zealot Career Details

[Estebar]

Voila.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Chaos/Careers/Zealot.php

Healer/Buffer/Debuffer by the sounds of it. Similar to the Runepriest.

EDIT: Anyone else get a Marilyn Manson vibe off that extra pic? XD

[Ralzar]

Hehe, just as i was looking at that pick, my girlfriend walked by and commented that it looked like Marilyn Manson :D

Anyway, I'm REALLY intrigued by the description of this classes power. I'm still sworn to play a Chosen, but if I make an alt (who am I kidding? I'll make a bunch of 'em :D) Zealot's at the top of the list.

[Noli me Tangere]

The main page still only links to a single picture of a Zealot, not to this description. I find that you have a link to this page, yet that the main page doesn't link you to this page to be something of an oddity. I wonder if it's not finalized. If it is, it sounds intriguing.

[Ralzar]

The main page still only links to a single picture of a Zealot, not to this description. I find that you have a link to this page, yet that the main page doesn't link you to this page to be something of an oddity. I wonder if it's not finalized. If it is, it sounds intriguing.

Here's the newsletter thread with all the links ;)

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9477

[Japan_is_superior]

Today, I got really interested into Zealot. I, mean I always thought of him like a ultra-hybrid doing everything, but now things cleared up. Buffer/Debuffer/Healer sounds freaking great. Right now, its my top choice.

[Grrblt]

Confirmed Zealot is not a pet class, which means we can expect an elf pet class.

[Kharlene]

I really love all that I read about the Zealot, the impression I was left with is that it arguably be one of the most powerful classes if played right, or will be one of the most gimped if played wrong - not really a happy medium with it. Also from what they were saying with their wide variety of glyphs for "buffs" and "debuffs" you really have to get specific and pay close attention to your enemies and allies pros and cons, otherwise everything winds up being wasted, so it forces you to possess some forethought into your castings, which is what I love, it doesn't come across as heal/buff spamming class but rather one that forces you to use your head. I won't be completely satisfied until I see precisely what they can do, but so far the impression I'm left with by its simple discriptions is that its a fairly technical class which should, hopefully, weed out those players looking for an easy mode class they can just heal and buff spam. :mrgreen:

[Krulltak]

.

EDIT: Anyone else get a Marilyn Manson vibe off that extra pic? XD


Yes, and disturbingliny so.

The zealot looks kind of cool IMO, especially with it's hunch-back and all. The way it works is not to bad either.

[Gorge]

Today, I got really interested into Zealot. I, mean I always thought of him like a ultra-hybrid doing everything, but now things cleared up. Buffer/Debuffer/Healer sounds freaking great. Right now, its my top choice.

I agree onehundred freakin' percent! After seeing them in action they definately went from the bottom of my list of Chaos alts to most likely being the first character I make. They look so addled that they can't help but come off as threatening to everyone around them, allies or not. That is just beyond awesome in my book. The Bizzaro-Jesus vibe I got from the one in the podcast really expounded on that theme in an immaculately disturbing way.

[Vervayne]

I like how complex they made it sound. I like complex classes, especially in support roles. I get the feeling that the abilities of the Zealot will be chock full of group support goodness. Definitely this will be my first class choice. \o/

[vehemoth]

Confirmed Zealot is not a pet class, which means we can expect an elf pet class.

I think if we see a pet class it will be coincidental. Who says both sides need a pet class?

I'm happy to hear that all the speculation about summoning birds, bird form, and other instances where the word bird and summon was looked into too much have been proven false. Truelly this is what I expected from the zealot career.

[Grrblt]

I think if we see a pet class it will be coincidental. Who says both sides need a pet class?

I'm happy to hear that all the speculation about summoning birds, bird form, and other instances where the word bird and summon was looked into too much have been proven false. Truelly this is what I expected from the zealot career.

Some interview said there would be more pet classes than the Squig Herder. No one of the current 16 classes is, so it has be an elf. I never said both sides need a pet class, elves play on both sides.

[Gorge]

Some interview said there would be more pet classes than the Squig Herder.

They also said this in the Empire/Chaos conference they had over the phone. Someone asked if the Magus will summon Horrors and the like, the response was an emphatic "No, but there WILL be another pet class."

No one of the current 16 classes is, so it has be an elf.
This statement hits the nail on the head quite sufficiently. I can pratically taste the speculation forming already. It's got a bit of a nutty flavor, funny that.

[Commentaris]

debuff-buffing and healign all in one. sounds good.

however, this is a bit baffling to me
Alternatively, you might wish to attack the Zealot as a priority, but he is hardly the soft target that he might appear to be.
he's not a soft target? how is a class with nothing but a robe and feathers for armour not a soft target?

either his (self?)buffs are immense, or his debuffs are just evil. i'm hoping the latter

[Waynolt]

debuff-buffing and healign all in one. sounds good.

however, this is a bit baffling to me

he's not a soft target? how is a class with nothing but a robe and feathers for armour not a soft target?

either his (self?)buffs are immense, his debuffs are just evil. i'm hoping the latter

Harbingers my friend, Harbingers.

[Commentaris]

aye, hoping the harbinger/debuffs will be great

[Ralzar]

Having played Corruptors and Defenders in CoH/V I'm also hoping the debuffs will be good. Who needs healing when your opponent can't hurt you? :D

[Guivert]

I like how much of a 'leech' type system it sounds like the Zealot will be toying with. He needs to focus on his debuffs/damage/Harbingers in order to better the buffs on his team's side. That's really cool.

While some people are comparing him similarly to the Runepriest, what I mentioned makes him sound so much different. I got the Runepriest vibe at first, too, but once leeching was mentioned, it went to a whole new level.

It's like weaving an elaborate web of buffs and debuffs in order to achieve your full potential.

The Runepriest is way more friendly. He passes out his goodies, and cracks stones on the heads of his enemies, in a good natured dwarf sort of way.

And man, I dig the Zealot animations and appearances. The bald thing was just fine, but I really like the mountain man look much more, and that's more of what I was hoping for with my Zealot.

Can't wait to smash a skull in the face of those snooty elves.

[Huckbuck]

Damn this really opened my eyes for Zealots! They sound amazing and Im not so sure that Marauder will be my main anymore... Gotta love the Jesus/Hunchback/Gollum/Marilyn Manson hybrid!

[crispy]

... it doesn't come across as heal/buff spamming class but rather one that forces you to use your head.

You make it sound like its so easy to heal in rvr :(

But anyways this zealot class looks pretty interesting since i am looking to play a support class in WAR :D
Either this, Magus or shaman.

[Seldaren]

he's not a soft target? how is a class with nothing but a robe and feathers for armour not a soft target?

In DAoC, all the caster classes have an ABS buffs (buffs that increase your Absorbtion, which decreases melee damage).

It's possible the Zealot has ABS Harbingers. Basically, they could "drain" ABS (or whatever the WAR equivalent of ABS is) from the enemy and give it to the Zealot.
That's kind of wonky to think about though, heh.

I wonder what the limit on Harbingers will be. Like, how many can you have out at once? can you stack them all on one character?
I could see the number of Harbingers increasing with Rank and Tier. And maybe even it's possible to spec to have more.

Seldaren

[Commentaris]

In DAoC, all the caster classes have an ABS buffs (buffs that increase your Absorbtion, which decreases melee damage).

yeah but that didn;t mean they weren't soft targets. it only meant they were slightly less soft targets. bubble, quick cast and CC and burst DPS is what some casters in DAoC not soft targets.

maybe the best was to think of them is akin to the defenders in CoH.

i can see the number of harbingers, the effectiveness and even the type all being spec/lvl related

[Ralzar]

maybe the best was to think of them is akin to the defenders in CoH.


Yeah, that's probably not too far off. Slightly better HP then nukers and buffs/debuffs/heals to protect them.
I remember the first time I PvPed a Defender. I was playing a scrapper and thought I'd get an easy fight, going one on one versus a soft target. We enter, and he debufs my speed, defense, resistance, accuracy, regneration and damage. He could have taken me in melee if he wanted to :D

[Boulvae]

This guy sounds like a buff bot, similar to runepriest but he doesn't ingage in physical damage to womp his enemies, instead he hurts his enemies with harbingers, wich pretty much makes his already cast marks of chaos far more effective then they already were.\

Sounds to me that he's gonna be one of those "healers" as people put it, thats gbonna constantly be in the front lines just for the fact that he'd be healing and equally damaging the enemy, I like.

[Belatucadros]

yeah but that didn;t mean they weren't soft targets. it only meant they were slightly less soft targets. bubble, quick cast and CC and burst DPS is what some casters in DAoC not soft targets.

maybe the best was to think of them is akin to the defenders in CoH.

i can see the number of harbingers, the effectiveness and even the type all being spec/lvl related

Eh, they may still have been squishy - but put down that AF and ABS buff and damage on the target will almost double, if you arne't capping already. Casters/cloth in itself in DAOC was weak, so this didn't really make that big a difference in the big picture - but as far as adding to defense, it was great.

I am picturing the zealot's defense as more like the expansion classes - picture valewalker/heretic, or vamp/mauler.

First bucket being a HUGE abs/AF buff, making you equivalent to chain or better armour.

second being casted defenses - allowing yourself high levels of evade, parry, etc.

[Grrblt]

Re: squishy target

You must prepare your allies for battle, and see that their Marks are set or re-set according to their shifting needs. You must also think offensively, for it is through your use of Harbingers which you are able to both effectively support and magnify the power of your allies, and crush the strength of your enemy. As a spell caster, you must be cautious, but because of your interlinked abilities, you must not be too conservative. If you hold back too much, or try to focus on only one aspect of your powers, all your abilities will be less than they could be.

Suggests to me that he will be a squishy target that has to get close to use his Harbinger spells. If he stands back he can't do anything, if he stays close for too long he's going to be mincemeat. So, run close, place Harbinger, run back.

[Seldaren]

This guy sounds like a buff bot, similar to runepriest but he doesn't ingage in physical damage to womp his enemies, instead he hurts his enemies with harbingers, wich pretty much makes his already cast marks of chaos far more effective then they already were.\

If you are actively involved in the fight, and contributing, you are not a buff bot.

A buff bot is something that casts its spells, and then goes and sits in a corner somewhere, or /sticks to another character.
Generally, no one needs to control the buff bot.

That sort of playstyle does not look to work with the Zealot, or any of the WAR healing careers. So none of them are "buff bots".

Seldaren

[Boulvae]

okay then, support class that "buffs" his allys/himself and "debuffs" everything else that ironically boosts allies/himself's "buffs".

i'm simplifing his class so i can put it in to one-two words. I would put "" around buffbot everytime I say it when i refer to him but I said he sounds similar to a buff bot from his description. not saying that he is exactly one.

[Ralzar]

okay then, support class that "buffs" his allys/himself and "debuffs" everything else that ironically boosts allies/himself's "buffs".

i'm simplifing his class so i can put it in to one-two words. I would put "" around buffbot everytime I say it when i refer to him but I said he sounds similar to a buff bot from his description. not saying that he is exactly one.

You seem to be thinking about "Buffer". Someone who casts buffs.

[Commentaris]

a healer is sometimes jokingly called a Healbot.

a buffer is only called a buffbot if he actually is a bot, ie a non-played character who is solely used for providing buffs.

[Memnos]

As was said by the fine people at Mythic in their newsletter, "As a Zealot, your task is a complex one. You must prepare your allies for battle, and see that their Marks are set or re-set according to their shifting needs. You must also think offensively, for it is through your use of Harbingers which you are able to both effectively support and magnify the power of your allies, and crush the strength of your enemy. As a spell caster, you must be cautious, but because of your interlinked abilities, you must not be too conservative. If you hold back too much, or try to focus on only one aspect of your powers, all your abilities will be less than they could be. "(With all respect to all copyrights on their part)

I have decided. Without doubt, I am going to roll a Zealot who, because of the specialization skills they've mentioned(Again, in the newsletter), will specialize in Harbinger curses/debuffs with only a few vital buffs/heals for allies.

I will be the angry priest of an angry God, relying on faith instead of steel to protect my skin. I will walk across hot coals. I will sneeringly curse my enemies to impotence, each one driving my few buffs to titanic heights(From what I gather, each 'curse' heightens your buffs. If you find yourself with average curses and buffs, you'll have average results with each. I'd rather get a few key buffs).

I will not be a titanic juggernaut striding the battlefield like a giant. I will be the thing they fear when they close their eyes. I will be that which causes them to dread the darkness. And when I have cursed them to mewling kittens... When they are too weak to lift their broadswords and they can barely breathe within their armor - Then, will I step out from the darkness, dagger glinting in the brief light. There, will I end their pain.

And it will be glorious.

[Reezy]

Zealots don't look like a buffbot or a healbot because his debuffs directly increase the power of his buffs and heals. It means that Zealots are going to have to be rapidly targeting a LOT of different friends and foes. Looks fun!

[Kedelig]

Zealots don't look like a buffbot or a healbot because his debuffs directly increase the power of his buffs and heals. It means that Zealots are going to have to be rapidly targeting a LOT of different friends and foes. Looks fun!

Couldn't agree more.

I think he is going to be a hard class to play good.

REALLY hard.

Also I think the class will be extremely dependant on his group playing good. (as all support-classes)

As to comparisons to other classes/games. I find that he reminds me of the Shaman-class from DAoC (he buffs, but must also use disease that both decreases enemys fighting potential, and interupts enemy casting).

[xgalaxy]

From the sounds of it. It's almost like you need those Harbingers on your foes so that you can buff your teammates at all. Like there is some kind of correlation between the amount you drain from target x and give to target y.

Or like your placing these Harbingers on the enemy which adds to this pool of energy which you can use to then help your teammates. So the more active Harbingers you have on the enemy the greater your pool of energy is to use for other things.

[crispy]

Couldn't agree more.

I think he is going to be a hard class to play good.

REALLY hard.

Also I think the class will be extremely dependant on his group playing good. (as all support-classes)

As to comparisons to other classes/games. I find that he reminds me of the Shaman-class from DAoC (he buffs, but must also use disease that both decreases enemys fighting potential, and interupts enemy casting).

Well i thought if it more as a druid or cleric actually... They get heals (and they get just as good heals as the other classes), they buff, and well debuff (i would argue that debuffing is the same as druid/cleric shears, or at least very close).

[Oak]

I just read through this entire thread and I got a little miffed.

I'm really looking forward to the Zealot class, it's the only class so far that's been announced that seemed to fit my playing style - but the assumptions made in this thread have made me second guess myself.

Why has everyone got the impression that the Zealot is a defensive class? That's exactly what I don't want. I'd much prefer that the Zealot was at least as much a death dealer as the Warrior Priest is, only instead of melee damage he has spell damage - hence he wears light armour instead of plate as a trade off.

What most of you have described is literally a buff bot in the worst sense of the term - and damn it, I want to kill people. I want to make people suffer. I want to melt faces and eviscerate flesh from bones. I want to steal the lives of the Empire and feed the disciples of Tzeentch with their souls - and I'll be royally pissed if I can't.

[someguysteve]

The new warrior priest information at gamespot says that he has to generate mana through attacking and that some of his best attacks and spells will use that so you have to decide between the two. Elsewhere they've said that he can stand back and heal, but it won't do nearly as well as when he fights. It also sounds like some of his buffs are in the form of auras.

I think the zealot will work in a similar way where you have to use his harbringers to do the most healing, and that you'll have some decent attacks. The developers don't seem to want there to be any pure support roles or to be too busy healing to attack. He'll have totems of some sort so that might be a way of saving you from buffing each person one at a time.

[Leontes]

Why has everyone got the impression that the Zealot is a defensive class? That's exactly what I don't want. I'd much prefer that the Zealot was at least as much a death dealer as the Warrior Priest is, only instead of melee damage he has spell damage - hence he wears light armour instead of plate as a trade off.

What most of you have described is literally a buff bot in the worst sense of the term - and damn it, I want to kill people. I want to make people suffer. I want to melt faces and eviscerate flesh from bones. I want to steal the lives of the Empire and feed the disciples of Tzeentch with their souls - and I'll be royally pissed if I can't.

Zealots aren't damage dealers, they are support classes! PURE support! That's the magic of these classes; It doesn't matter if they're doing damage or debuffing their enemies, the role and goal of the Zealot is to be the support class of Chaos.

Having spent most of my gaming experience playing support classes and/or healers, and greatly looking forward to playing a Chaos Zealot in WAR, this class appears to cater to an all new playing style of support class, but there must be no misconception that we are damage dealers or mages or anything but support.

Here's my take on how the Zealot should operate, and how I'm hoping it will be so from what we've seen so far:

At my corest of cores, I'm a healer, namby pamby or not. I sit in the back and I heal, and I heal, and I heal.

I am going to play a class that matters, a class that can do damage, and I will do it best by playing as a dedicated healer and supporter.

Now, don't think this means I'm saying I want to do nothing but heal my allies and support. I understand that WAR isn't about that and that it will not be the effective way to play the class. But I will say one thing...

Every action I take on the battlefield is going to be towards that overall healing effort. If you see me setting up a deadly network of glyphs and harbingers or nuking and stabbing my foes to generate Morale, you will know that my intention was never to kill my enemies; it was to land that next heal and keep my allies running at maximum efficiency.

From what we've seen so far and in my humblest of opinions, the Zealot's niche is that it's a healing and support class, and I am going to do whatever it takes to be the most effective healer I can be.

If that means spending more than half the fight casting buffs and debuffs, then so be it. If it means getting killing blows and siphoning life from enemies, then so be it.

Damage isn't the goal here; we have our Magus' and Marauders to drop those life bars. We have to focus on what we have that they don't, and understand that the damage we deal, no matter how great or small, is just a bonus effect of us trying to support the team in the most effective manner imaginable.

We're going to kill countless enemies, but we must remember why we kill in the first place.

Yes, what us healers have always been annoyed by are the social stigmas that come from dealing damage in groups when others think we should be keeping tabs on health bars. Yes, it's a concern of Mythic's to remove this element from gameplay to make it more fun and interesting for all.

But we have to remember that our job is NOT to do damage. We will never be invited to groups as damage classes. In a PvP game, there are plenty others to do that job for us. Other classes that can't heal.

Our job is to support the team, and if we happen to melt a few faces or just plain HAVE to stab eleven guys in the heart to get the job done, then so be it. We must stay focused and be as many steps ahead of our actions as possible, and the motive of every drop of blood we shed had better be to replenish our own.

The Zealot will not be a damage class. He will be forced to deal damage to lead into his primary role; healing/support. How much damage he deals is entirely inconsequential; heavy or light, it's just the side effect of being a strong healer and battlefield presence in WAR.

Mythic is redefining this role in an absolutely beautiful way.

But we ARE healers.

---

First post, by the way :D

[Nerror]

The Zealot will not be a damage class. He will be forced to deal damage to lead into his primary role; healing/support. How much damage he deals is entirely inconsequential; heavy or light, it's just the side effect of being a strong healer and battlefield presence in WAR.

Mythic is redefining this role in an absolutely beautiful way.

But we ARE healers.

---

First post, by the way :D

The Zealot, by all descriptions, won't be pure support, unless you define doing damage as pure support. I don't think any damage done is inconsequential. I know I am just nitpicking here, but I felt like nitpicking, so there.. :p

[Oak]

Zealots aren't damage dealers, they are support classes! PURE support! That's the magic of these classes; It doesn't matter if they're doing damage or debuffing their enemies, the role and goal of the Zealot is to be the support class of Chaos.

Having spent most of my gaming experience playing support classes and/or healers, and greatly looking forward to playing a Chaos Zealot in WAR, this class appears to cater to an all new playing style of support class, but there must be no misconception that we are damage dealers or mages or anything but support.

Here's my take on how the Zealot should operate, and how I'm hoping it will be so from what we've seen so far:

At my corest of cores, I'm a healer, namby pamby or not. I sit in the back and I heal, and I heal, and I heal.

I am going to play a class that matters, a class that can do damage, and I will do it best by playing as a dedicated healer and supporter.

Now, don't think this means I'm saying I want to do nothing but heal my allies and support. I understand that WAR isn't about that and that it will not be the effective way to play the class. But I will say one thing...

Every action I take on the battlefield is going to be towards that overall healing effort. If you see me setting up a deadly network of glyphs and harbingers or nuking and stabbing my foes to generate Morale, you will know that my intention was never to kill my enemies; it was to land that next heal and keep my allies running at maximum efficiency.

From what we've seen so far and in my humblest of opinions, the Zealot's niche is that it's a healing and support class, and I am going to do whatever it takes to be the most effective healer I can be.

If that means spending more than half the fight casting buffs and debuffs, then so be it. If it means getting killing blows and siphoning life from enemies, then so be it.

Damage isn't the goal here; we have our Magus' and Marauders to drop those life bars. We have to focus on what we have that they don't, and understand that the damage we deal, no matter how great or small, is just a bonus effect of us trying to support the team in the most effective manner imaginable.

We're going to kill countless enemies, but we must remember why we kill in the first place.

Yes, what us healers have always been annoyed by are the social stigmas that come from dealing damage in groups when others think we should be keeping tabs on health bars. Yes, it's a concern of Mythic's to remove this element from gameplay to make it more fun and interesting for all.

But we have to remember that our job is NOT to do damage. We will never be invited to groups as damage classes. In a PvP game, there are plenty others to do that job for us. Other classes that can't heal.

Our job is to support the team, and if we happen to melt a few faces or just plain HAVE to stab eleven guys in the heart to get the job done, then so be it. We must stay focused and be as many steps ahead of our actions as possible, and the motive of every drop of blood we shed had better be to replenish our own.

The Zealot will not be a damage class. He will be forced to deal damage to lead into his primary role; healing/support. How much damage he deals is entirely inconsequential; heavy or light, it's just the side effect of being a strong healer and battlefield presence in WAR.

Mythic is redefining this role in an absolutely beautiful way.

But we ARE healers.

---

First post, by the way :D

Welcome to the Forums. Your post made me violently ill - I hope for all our sakes you're wrong.
If I wanted cookie cutter support classes, I'll go to Vanguard or World of Warcraft. If I get in to a 1v1 with some fool out and about in the Chaos Wastes, I don't want to run with my tail between my legs becasue all I can do is debuff and heal - I want to rip his face off and wear it as a hat.

I'm not asking to be a damage dealer, like the Magus is, and I understand that we're the "healing" class for Chaos which I'm very much looking forward to as it's familiar ground - I'm just asking to be able to look after myself.

I want to make Order suffer. A lot.

[Memnos]

I'm not asking to be a damage dealer, like the Magus is, and I understand that we're the "healing" class for Chaos which I'm very much looking forward to as it's familiar ground - I'm just asking to be able to look after myself.

I want to make Order suffer. A lot.

Well, we know a few things about the class that I'm fairly certain we can count on:

1) The class can heal, debuff and buff.

2) The class is a close range melee fighter.

3) The class is unarmoured(I'm Canadian. Paul would agree the 'u' belongs there.).

Because of this, there are certain things in PVP we can count on:

1) We will not be causing as much pure damage as the Marauder.

2) We will be easier to hit and take more damage than the Chosen.

3) We will not have the range of the Magus.

Because of this, one on one with no preparation means we will lose. However: Does it matter if we do more damage because of buffs or because we're a DPS class? Does it matter if we take less damage because we're armoured or because they're debuffed?

Ultimately, I think we can count on us being required to carefully assess an opponent, to engage in an act of hide and go seek as we seek to lay down our curses and buffs. Without that, we lose. We SHOULD lose, too. I just think the Zealot will benefit from a patient and sneaky player more than, say... A warrior priest.

[Oak]

Just a point on saying the Zealot is a melee/healer/debuffer - I think that's a misnomer as well. Just because we've seen the swipe animations for the Zealot with a dagger, does not mean that is his main form of offence. Being a cloth wearer, my first impressions is that he'd be a ranged damage dealer/healer/debuffer... but time will tell.

I just think it's odd that we've been hearing all this stuff about how W:AR is "WAR!" and that there's no "pure healing or buffing" classes - yet despite all of this, some people still see the Chaos Zealot (of all things) as one.

I mean - a Chaos Zealot?! As a purely support character? Are you people daft or am I missing something? He's a religious nutcase - he foams at the mouth and thirsts for entrails to wear as necklaces. He's a wild man from the north fueled by the teachings Tzeentch, and in my mind he should have the capacity to bring doom down on his foes in biblical proportions. Plagues of ravens and the like... "GO FOR THE EYES MY PETS!"

Yet - despite all of this, somepeople still want him sitting up the back with his thumb in his arse casting debuffs, buffs and heals all day without getting his hands dirty. To me - that's a Runepriests job.

[Leontes]

Oh but he will be getting his hands dirty; that's what's so great about WAR's support classes. We'll probably do lots of damage, no doubt, but not enough to make us feel like we're anything but support. What better support is there in a 2v2 skirmish than using offensive magic to quickly take down one enemy, then using the Morale you've gained to support your ally in a now VERY skewed 2v1 fight? It doesn't need to be said that we all understand that raw damage and raw healing strategies are not intended to be effective, but since we have a core set of abilities that others do not have access to (buffs and heals), we have to perform most actions with the aim of crippling, afflicting, and benefiting others, and that includes dealing damage.

If all goes according to Mythic's plan, the most FUN way to play will be the BEST way to play. That involves ripping people's eyes out with crow summons or crushing their skulls with telekinesis or something.

I most definitely AM assuming a bit much about WAR's gameplay though. We don't really know enough about combat specifics or how strong healing and support really is. Maybe the Zealot is just another damage class that gets a few more heal spells than the others. Maybe the Shaman plays pretty much like a Magus, except he has a bit less firepower and more healing and buffing instead.

I don't know, I sort of picture damage dealt as kind of inconsequential for characters like Black Orcs and Chaos Zealots. I'm not saying they could deal zero damage with all of their crazy status effects and be just as effective, but I think the biggest fear that players will have when they run into a Black Orc is getting knocked down and demoralized while Choppas rip them to pieces. Any damage dealt by a Black Orc while maintaining his anti-dps role just seems like gravy.

I do, however, feel that strong support might be the only way to turn the tides on a high-Morale charging enemy force, but again we don't know combat specifics so this is all theory-hammer.

So yes, while I still strongly believe that the Zealot will be a PURE SUPPORT AND HEALING CLASS, dealing lots and lots of damage will be a solid and necessary avenue toward achieving that goal.

[Drekor]

I'm in agreement with Leontes, everything I do, whether it be debuffing or knifing an opponent will be towards the end of supporting and healing my group, I feel that is going to be the way to do things as there isn't a pure healer in the game the "healer" type classes will really have to step up and perform.

Although I may load a cannon with a bush on it with custard and fire it at Paul Barnett for his take on pure healers :twisted:

[Oak]

I do, however, feel that strong support might be the only way to turn the tides on a high-Morale charging enemy force, but again we don't know combat specifics so this is all theory-hammer.

So yes, while I still strongly believe that the Zealot will be a PURE SUPPORT AND HEALING CLASS, dealing lots and lots of damage will be a solid and necessary avenue toward achieving that goal.

I'm only quoting the last two points because of their importance to what you said, Leontes. The first one, that this is all theory-hammer - I agree with, absolutly. The last quote however, was really strange. I read your post several times and it still seems out of place.

Mid way through your post you say:

What better support is there in a 2v2 skirmish than using offensive magic to quickly take down one enemy, then using the Morale you've gained to support your ally in a now VERY skewed 2v1 fight? It doesn't need to be said that we all understand that raw damage and raw healing strategies are not intended to be effective, but since we have a core set of abilities that others do not have access to (buffs and heals), we have to perform most actions with the aim of crippling, afflicting, and benefiting others, and that includes dealing damage.

But then at the end you finish with:

I still strongly believe that the Zealot will be a PURE SUPPORT AND HEALING CLASS

...that makes no sense. In fact, you contradict youself in the same sentance, after saying the above you go on to state that you think to be "dealing lots and lots of damage".

To me - that's not a "pure support and healing class" at all. That's a hybrid.

Anyway, like you said originally it's all based on assumptions and until we get some more solid evidence on how the characters are going to be played, or play the game for ourselves we're not going to be able to make any concrete judgements. Time will tell.

[Oggzy]

I don't know, I sort of picture damage dealt as kind of inconsequential for characters like Black Orcs and Chaos Zealots. I'm not saying they could deal zero damage with all of their crazy status effects and be just as effective, but I think the biggest fear that players will have when they run into a Black Orc is getting knocked down and demoralized while Choppas rip them to pieces. Any damage dealt by a Black Orc while maintaining his anti-dps role just seems like gravy.

Bolded the most important part here.

Granted this example is from an alpha build, but your kind of thinking is exactly what will lead many new WAR players to their deaths during RvR at the most unexpected hands.

This time I was a Black Orc. That meant I was very powerful and very slow. I ambled way up to the wall only to find that most folks don't want to mess with a Black Orc without overwhelming numbers. When I reached the armory, I found out why. Most of the action was at the gate lock on top of the wall where at least a dozen players on each side were slaughtering each other. I just stood in the armory and held it for the orcs. Every once in a while someone heading up top would see me and try their luck. Yeah, I crushed them. Eventually, of course, the dwarves realized that the steady trickle of points coming from the armory was putting the game out of reach and sent five players after me. I nailed three but some of those little buggers are fast.So our Black Orc player here, completely alone, killed three dwarfs (and I somehow doubt they were all just Runepriests) out of five before succumbing. That's not gravy. That's a whole dang turkey.

[Leontes]

Yeah, it could very well be that every class is a heavy damage dealer. I hadn't heard that account of Black Orc play; that sounds awesome :D

I know it sounds like I'm trying to narrow everything down everything into "traditional" roles like support and tank and whatnot, but I just feel that each character in a party needs to focus on what it can do that others can't. It's not that I'm trying to claim that the Zealot is going to be a namby pamby healer and that Zealots shouldn't even try to do damage in combat, I'm saying that all of his or her combat actions, be they damage spells or debuffs, need to be motivated toward that supporter's goal.

Everybody will be doing as much damage as possible, but Zealots are *still* the healers and support classes of Chaos. They have to be, it's what they have that others don't.

And also, when I say Zealots are pure support classes, I truly mean that.

The support class is being redefined in WAR, and support is now a damage dealer as well. I guess a "hybrid" is a fair term as well, but that name just has so much of a negative connotation with some people and has generally always meant that the class is a watered-down combination of other classes that fulfill more solid roles.

But in WAR, these "hybrids" are the only ones who can heal, so they aren't really "hybrids" at all. To be hybrids they'd have to be shadows of the real healing classes in the game (of which there aren't any, obviously) while simultaneously being weaker damage dealers.

They're a new beast entirely, and I think everybody in this thread is correct in how they want to play the class. Do as much damage as possible, support your team as much as possible, and heal as effectively as possible.

I'm just saying that my personal outlook on combat as a healer-at-heart means that my very first actions will be to damage my opponents and generate Morale with the intention of landing huge heals to benefit my team later.

If we're given the ability to do insane damage as well, then I'm extremely gracious for that. It's not often that you're playing a class in an MMO that can more than hold his own as well as being DEFINED as the "healer" of a certain faction.

But as far as me caring if the Zealot packs a punch? Couldn't care less.

Will I mind having to eat the souls of countless enemies just so I can be an effective healer? Hell no :D

[Oak]

The support class is being redefined in WAR, and support is now a damage dealer as well. I guess a "hybrid" is a fair term as well, but that name just has so much of a negative connotation with some people and has generally always meant that the class is a watered-down combination of other classes that fulfill more solid roles.

But in WAR, these "hybrids" are the only ones who can heal, so they aren't really "hybrids" at all. To be hybrids they'd have to be shadows of the real healing classes in the game (of which there aren't any, obviously) while simultaneously being weaker damage dealers.

Just for my sanity, I have to live in faith we don't become buff bots - despite how much you want to be one, Leontes. HOWEVER! I do agree with you on the point quoted above, and my previous statements regarding the topic I'll take back. You pose the argument that darkness can't exist without light, that we ARE the healers in this game becasue no one can do it better than us. If looking secularly at WAR, then I agree - however in general MMORPG terms I don't believe Zealots fill that role.

I'm glad that Mythic are redefining class roles :) Let's just hope they do a good job!

[Leontes]

Yeah, all we can have is faith.

[Relentless]

I just hope we have at least one or two attacks involving the nasty daggers and such we carry around. Not just a weak auto-attack noone winds up using, but some nasty active attack that makes melee regret coming in range of us.

What it looks like to me is that you cast the Glyphs on your allies either before battle or mid-battle depending on how the situation changes, they may or may not have a weak effect to start off with but require harbringers to become truely effective. It sort of reminds me of a WoW shadowpriest only much more complex and adaptable. (I apologize if I've repeated something that's already been said, I only skimmed through some of the walls of text in this thread).

[Reezy]

It sort of reminds me of a WoW shadowpriest only much more complex and adaptable. (I apologize if I've repeated something that's already been said, I only skimmed through some of the walls of text in this thread).

That's kind of how I see it to. A shadow priest that can heal his party and himself through the amount of damage he does. But then I agree that a Zealot will be so much more complex than that. Instead of just one debuff that pulses small amounts of helaing throughout the party, the marks you place will decide who you want to heal. And there might be different harbingers that cause different kind of debuffs, and maybe different marks to support those harbingers (wouldn't be awesome if there was a harbinger that reduced the strength of someone, and a supportive mark that basically funneled strength from foe to friend?).

And then there's totems, which will most likely give buffs, but really there's many other things I can see them doing too! And on top of all of that there's birds! Caw caw! Pluck out the eyes, my minions! Can you imagine a group of four zealots that pretty much just mark each other, drop a totem, and call out their birds! There would be so many birds! Caw caw!

[Relentless]

For the love of the Bird God, please don't let totems be as integral to WAR Zealots as they are to WoW shamans /shudder

[Oak]

For the love of the Bird God, please don't let totems be as integral to WAR Zealots as they are to WoW shamans /shudder

Yeah - especially when we're wearing cloth. Totems were a ball and chain to the Shaman class in WoW - manoeuvrability will be paramount to us staying alive and having to stay in range of a totem will be nothing but a hindrance.

The simile made to Zealots to a complex Shadow Priest - if that is accurate, I'll be happy in my pants.

[silex]

The class looks absolutely amazing. Of everything announced so far, the Zealot stands out as the most innovative and interesting.

The way it sounds like to me, you'd distribute regeneration buffs to your allies before a fight. Normally, the buffs are weak. Throw some dots around on the enemy and the regeneration buffs get stronger. Get a huge network of lifetap DOTs going at once and the regeneration would be off the scale. When the enemy switches targets and starts beating on someone else, just transfer your buff over. Keeping those DOTs going will be key to the success.

They are a ramp-up class that doesn't have a bar in the UI that they have to raise. I'm excited.